WHEN “BLACK BABIES” BECOME BLACK PRIESTS.

priest

When I started primary school in 1956 in Carlow, Ireland, the nuns insisted that we bring in a penny that was to go to the “Black Babies”.

Now, as a reader commented the other day – some of these black babies are now coming back as black priests to address the priest shortage here in the West.

Some of these appointments are working well – while others are not.

I was a bit shocked when a reader told us the other day that their new African priest was operating a second hand car business from the church car park!

Of course we must remind ourselves that Irish priests for generations have been involved in businesses as well as being priests.

The former parish priest of Downpatrick in County Down, Monsignor Joe Maguire, was involved in running a family garage and hotel in Belfast and in County Down. He was also a tyrant PP who was very hard on his curates.

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Many Irish priests have been wealthy either in their own right or because they came from wealthy families.

Priests I have known have also involved themselves in buying race horses, professional betting and in the buying and selling of antiques.

There are a number of problems that seem to be raising their heads with priests from Africa:

  1. Having come from a poor background they can become very materialistic and grasping in our capitalist societies.
  2. Because of their ordination they can see themselves as superior to lay people.
  3. Because of their cultures they can have a poor opinion of the place of women.
  4. They are often known for regarding celibacy as counter cultural for them.

On of the biggest problems that African bishops about their priests coming on a temporary appointment in the West is that they will not want to return to their own dioceses after their temporary appointment here. They have a better life in the West and therefore want to sever their ties with their poorer dioceses back home.

Of course we know that many missionary priests from the West went to places life Africa and abused their positions there – seeking and having sex with the natives.

I knew of one situation with an Irish missionary society where there were 17 priests in a particular region only 1 remained celibate and the other 16 had relationships with native women and men. This big story of all these “goings on” has yet to be told.

One of the themes that came out of the Second Vatican Council was that Catholic missionaries should be sensitive to the cultures they were entering and attempt to present Christianity in a culturally sensitive way.

I think we have now come to a time when we have to ask if it is appropriate to address the shortage of priests with priests from very different cultures?

The RC Church is doing this to stop them having to address the questions of a married clergy and a female clergy.

Short term solutions are not always good long term solutions.

76 thoughts on “WHEN “BLACK BABIES” BECOME BLACK PRIESTS.

  1. Should we be shocked by a priest selling second hand cars? St Paul made/mended tents.
    Perhaps no priest should get a stipend and all priests should earn their keep in a more conventional manner.

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    1. Have you ever come across a pp mending nets 😄

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    2. people are so easily shocked, shocked, on this site

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  2. Our Lady of Lourdes Hospital in Drogheda should officially be renamed the Oliver Cromwell memorial hospital. He will be very proud to see all of the Drogheda people who will die there under the abortion laws.

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    1. Get a grip. Talk about over the top reaction and odious comparison.

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      1. Yes, exactly. What the abortionists do, daily, all over the world and now in Ireland, makes Cromwell look like the naughty elf.

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      2. How about Belsen General, Drogheda?

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    2. 5:28

      Such loose remarks trivialise the pro-life argument and raise hackles against it.

      Neither you nor the poster at 12:14 are helping to open minds and hearts.

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  3. Wait for those who will now label you a racist for stating true facts. African and Indian Priests use this as the first line of defence when the laity ask them to be more accountable particularly with finances. Polish priests ate not immune from this either.

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    1. I had several of them already. Thank God for the bin.

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  4. MournemanMichael 8th Jan 2019 — 12:22 am

    This issue raises questions about the essentials of priesthood: a functionary ontologically ‘stamped’ with sacramental ability to simply provide services like the mass, confessions, marriage etc; and/or personally demanding interactive pastoral care? Perhaps a mix/ mesh of the two? But which is the more important and essential component?
    Pat’s blog highlights my own, albeit limited, impression of the cultural inability of imported African clergy to offer much by way of pastoral care.
    MMM

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  5. Be prepared, Bishop Pat, to have the racist card played against you for today’s blog.

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  6. Matthew Lines 8th Jan 2019 — 1:07 am

    Curious you posted this now Bishop Pat;
    Just listening to these moments of joy form the choir of St. Stephen’s Mass Servers Choir Lunch @ Star of the Sea Cathedral, Takoradi Ghana
    Many genuine vocations there Despite the cynical nastiness at Imperial HQ

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  7. Importing third world clergy to solve our priest shortage problem is short sighted and does not solve the real issue in the long term.
    1. The third world churches will eventually end up in the situation that many first world churches find themselves in now. it is only a matter of time, as these countries develop, democratise, commercialise, have options. Corruption past and present, abuse etc. will emerge in these countries and there will be the same crisis. A tsunami wave is only waiting to arrive at the shore of these churches and inundate them.
    2. The solution to our first world shortage of priests is really very simple. A. Deconstruct the present discredited and not fit for purpose clerical hierarchy and culture. B. Ordain priests for what they should be doing, namely providing sacramental, pastoral and spiritual ministry to the church. C. There is no reason not to ordain married men. There are many who would give of their time to be sacramental priests. D. Ordain women. There are many women who feel that they are called to the sacramental priesthood, and they would be good. Doing A, B, C, D would provide a much healthier and integrated priestly culture and would go a long way to solving the difficulties we have.
    3. Even if importing third world priests were a good idea, which it is not, it would still be an act of imperialism and colonialism on the part of the first world churches. Why should be deprive these countries of their priests (equally, why should we deprive them of their health workers for our hospitals ) whom they have trained and paid for, only to come to us so we can get them on the cheap to satisfy our needs, when we should be providing our own priests and other workers by providing good education, decent training, and decent pay and working conditions. It is arrogance for us to deplete third world countries of their educated professionals and workers.

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    1. MournemanMichael 8th Jan 2019 — 10:13 am

      Well put Anon @ 9:33: insightful. well articulated, …and so true.
      MMM

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      1. It’s just like Theresa May plan to raid third world countries to provide cheap doctors and nurses for her failing health service.

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    2. I am from the Lancaster diocese.
      The priest at the local church is from Kerala. He is a lovely man… but no-one can make out what he is saying. They follow the mass in the book but when he preaches they are completely lost. It is a very good natured parish. All the work is done by the laity. Most are elderly with heart problems or cancer and I suspect they are beginning to feel completely used. It is totally unsuitable.

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      1. Holy Family Freckleton Parishioner 8th Jan 2019 — 4:27 pm

        1219 I know who you are. What else can be done then? Fr Mathew tries his best and there are no Priests in the Diocese to replace him. He is the Chancellor of the Syro Malabar Epharchy and on top of that he is PP with 2 Churches and several schools to look after never mind the numerous care homes. Don’t tell me that the people feel used. There are 6 or 7 people who love running this Parish and they are utter control freaks. Given half a chance they’d be saying Mass. His English is much better now so I suspect the real reason is your unconscious bias and racism. If you don’t like it then clear off somewhere else.

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      2. Lancaster Diocese 8th Jan 2019 — 4:38 pm

        Shame on you 1219. Fr Mathew your Parish Priest is on loan from India and he leaves in 6 months. You can guarantee that your Parish will close then as St Joseph’s is only up the road. Hopefully closure will stop you whinging about a good and holy Priest who tries his best to serve you. His English is much improved. Sounds to me that you are racist. I will be writing to Bishop Paul about you as I know who you are.

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      3. You could always move up the road to my Parish in Blackpool and attend Mass by the 25 year old Priest who dresses up in frilly vestments and headgear and prefers saying Mass in Latin. He did a funeral I was at recently and was wearing black vestments with a homily lasting over 30 mins. It was dreadful. He has zero people skills and Lords it up, never mind the begging messages on his bulletin to bless our houses (for money) and for Mass stipends. He is the Vocations Director so God knows where our Diocese will go now if all we will be attracting is men who dress up like female pop stars and are determined to return to Latin. Your own Parish sounds a better option to me.

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  8. There are some African priests in London who feel they have a sense of entitlement. They expect the African women in the community to wash, cook and do chores for them free of charge. Not only that it’s ‘expected’ of the community to provide food and cook. There is clearly a big cultural difference here. I know of one African priest who didn’t want to return to his home diocese and pleaded with the Cardinal to allow him to stay in London to pursue ‘further studies’. Yes, it’s that old chestnut again. This Priest has the very best of everything and would put some Irish PP’s to shame in terms of the car he drives, clothes, holidays, restraunts etc. You’ve got the nail on the head Pat with this blog.

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    1. 4.38 In the UK we have freedom of speech. To say that someone is lovely but difficult to understand is not racist. Most of my friends are of Indian descent.. but with strong Preston accents.

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      1. My dad is a native Brum.

        Oddly, I’ve always been able to ‘make him out’.

        And he understands ‘Norn Iron’ perfectly.

        What’s to complain about?😆

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  9. I am sure that no one would want to engage in generalisation on this delicate subject. My own experience has been entirely positive. I was a patient in a large NHS hospital for over a month. The official Catholic chaplains were two Nigerian priests who ran a small parish nearby. Fr A was in the hospital from Monday to Wednesday, Fr B from Thursday to Saturday. Their pastoral care and commitment was outstanding and did much to alleviate my situation. There were also ‘chaplaincy volunteers’ , Catholic, Anglican and other clergy who gave a few hours a week to visiting patients, and I am likewise grateful to two of them, one Catholic and one Anglican woman priest, for their concern.

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    1. Its good to have your perspective sir. All very positive.
      No one is saying that there are not excellent foreign priests. But the issue does present challenges at various levels.

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  10. It is not beyond the realms of possibility that some of them are being brought over specially to service the sugar daddies Bp Pat described a few days ago. It wouldn’t surprise readers if that is the case.

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    1. Nothing would surprise me any longer with the RC project.

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    2. Depends on if the Fathers are size Queens or not…..

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    3. Oh great. It is a well known fact that men of some of the origins mentioned have huge dongers, so King Puck and Deacon Gorgeous will be pleased.

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      1. Well there has been no shortage of Clerical big black dong in Dublin as I’ve met a few over the years on the adam4adam app. Sadly most have returned back to their own country but you still get a few on there. They notoriously swing both ways and prefer white. Their words not mine.

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      2. In the gay bars there is a saying “one you’ve had black you never go back”. I welcome relationships from all men gay, straight, bi and regardless of skin colour. I did however have a one off with a Nigerian Priest who was all there and more!

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    4. 6:30

      Is this only what interests gay men? Promiscuous sex?

      And you wonder why the institutional Roman Catholic Church teaches so severely against homosexuality?😕

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      1. You should know you big closet queen Magna. You’ve dropped a few hair pins in your time ye big girl ye.

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    5. 8:05

      Father, forgive her! She knows not of what she bullshits.😆

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  11. MournemanMichael 8th Jan 2019 — 2:06 pm

    +Pat: could you please explain why some comments have a reply button available while others don’t. I realise that some of the latter are actually replies to an earlier comment. Is that the sole reason?
    Thanks.
    MMM

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  12. Pat Mullaney hoping to host the Black and White Minstrel Show in the Aula after Easter to raise needed funds for the Gaynooth is falling down round her twill be a great night of the craic and the few drinks and Cafe BumBum will do the vol au vents.

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    1. 😂😂😂🤣

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    2. Who is Pat Mullaney?

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  13. https://www.thecinemaholic.com/pope-francis-net-worth/ Pope doesn’t do much for black babies despite net worth of two million

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    1. Followed up that link.
      The story confirms what you said, but offers absolutely no substantiation of it.
      Such claims, without evidence, are doubtful.

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  14. The question be, that the blog declares no confidence in the Irish Bishops Conference. as many of that opinion say aye, of the contrary, No.

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    1. Canon Matt Hep 8th Jan 2019 — 6:06 pm

      Aye

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    2. You’ve been watching too much bbc parliament programme. You sound like that irritating oaf the member for Buckingham.

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      1. Nigel, never mind Bercov. Brexiteers need you now more than ever.
        Get back in the groove, man.
        (I’ll join you for a pint of real ale later.😆)

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    3. Aye ‘n’ all.😆

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      1. Nigel is only seething with the member for Buckingham because he crashed his plane trying to unseat him. Nigel how many times have you tried and failed to get into the House of Commons. Even the people of Thanet didn’t eant you. You’re just an old soak like Junker the Drinker.

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  15. Blackpool Linda 8th Jan 2019 — 5:53 pm

    4.59. Fr Daniel is only 25 years old and is very traditional. He does specialise in the Latin Mass and he would be the first to admit that he needs pastoral experience. He has been stuck in a seminary for many years but you can be assured that he knows about how he is perceived and is working on it. The black vestments have been widely spoken about, but he is adamant that he will wear these for all funerals as it is right and proper. Rather than come on here criticising him, speak to him and offer him support and advice if you have anything to offer. Also, please pray for him as he does you.

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  16. I can think of many good home grown priests who left to get married. Why can’t we have married priests?

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  17. It’s only a matter of time before RC churches in Down and Connor close, not solely because of shortage of priests but because the Bishop of Bling doesn’t deem them to be “economically” viable. There’s no way his Lordship is going to support any church that isn’t able to contribute to his coffers. After all he needs a few pound for the upkeep of his mansion and extensive grounds.

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    1. Yes, the poor man is skimping on home-heating oil just to make ends meet, so he is.😅

      😆

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  18. There are many priests in the Sunday mass congregations scattered throughout Ireland. A lot of them are laicised and married. They have not lost their faith. They worship humbly and quietly and would feel privileged to minister if the church were to call on them again. Most of them would be self sufficient and economically independent. They would willingly serve a sacramental role without financial recompense. Even on a part time basis under the supervision of the local priest. They could be an enriching presence. Not only a much needed source of help for understaffed clergy, but also they would bring a lived knowledge of marriage, raising children etc. Many of them would know what it feels like to have outsider status. Some of them would have been treated as pariahs, even Judases when they left ministry, sometimes at terrible personal cost. That surely would have chastened them and given them an insight and empathy into what it feels like to be an underdog, an outcast in a society which so identifies with symbols of material and social success, the church unfortunately not immune from same. Some will say these men betrayed their vocation and should never be allowed back. What about the parable of the prodigal son? Also, it is an impoverished priesthood if everything is measured just in terms of celibacy. There are celibates with hard hearts, worldly ambitions, insatiable greed etc. Just because you are celibate doesn’t automatically confer superiority or personal holiness. The church needs to think outside the box. It’s a shame they couldn’t use these men again. They had the integrity to leave, knowing they couldn’t in conscience act as a priest and be in a relationship at the same time. I imagine their life outside official ministry may have even humanised them and matured them. That’s not to take from the many excellent celibate priests who live exemplary, generative lives.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. We already have married men as Priests, some with children. They are former Anglican clergymen, some of which belong to the Ordinariate under the leadership of Mgr Keith Newton.

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      1. I wonder how these men feel now, having jumped ship…to the leaking, and listing, Barque of Peter?😆

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      2. They’ll still be gay.

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    2. 7:13
      You, sir or madam, are making a worthy point.😆

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    3. John @7:13
      Well said! I couldn’t agree more.

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  19. To be honest, Magna at 7:48, they don’t care as long as they can do their own thing: music by Mozart, choreography by Fortescue but libretto by Cranmer. Just a bunch of cranks: some harmless; others not … The real shits usually get into a diocese; ideally Westminster.

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    1. Sad, really.
      Motivation a moral accusation, not a plaudit.😢

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    2. Yes, there are quite a few ex Anglican shits in Westminster. The nasty queen type, cutting, sarcastic and vicious tongued. They are the bitchy types who would giggle in a corner if anyone walked into a room or bar. G & T’s in hand and Vincent tolerates them as they pose no threat to him.

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      1. Poor Walsingham, it was queer enough before the Ordinariate.

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      2. Queens with G & T’s — such a scandal. You might feel at home with Michael Voris:

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    3. 10:10
      you’ve lost me there, so y’ have now, begorrah!☺

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    4. 9:43
      Now that IS queer.
      Did she declare hersellf queer, or did some shit out her?

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    5. So nice to see Hugh Ross Williamson is still being read.

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  20. I assure you Madam @8.10pm that Claude drinks way more than me. Although he wouldn’t know what a good pint of bitter was he cerainly makes up for it in Cognac. I’ll have you know he verbally abused others and I in UKIP just yesterday about our severance payments as MEP’s when Brexit eventually kicks in. The cheek of he man.

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  21. Fly on Th Wall 8th Jan 2019 — 9:19 pm

    I remember the little black baby statues from school hi. Wee head went up n down when ya put in a penny. Wouldn’t do nowadays. Some Irish priests we to th mission cause dad n mam hadn’t cash to train them for diocese. Sex allot that but. People from other countries come here and think it’s mity hi. Why wouldn’t they. If anything in some ways they are less two faced than the locals. Hi

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    1. Fly on Th Wall 8th Jan 2019 — 9:21 pm

      Shud be sez allot hi. Wandering finger hi ya no

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    2. 9:19
      Faulty analysis of the situation that prevailed. It’s not just your syntax that’s poor.

      Money was rarely an obstacle for men who wanted to minister and live in Irish dioceses. And rightly so. Whatever streamlining there was tended to be academic rather than directly financial. In Maynooth each diocese was allotted a limited number of places in first year. For the most part these were filled by candidates from diocesan second-level seminaries. Others were educated in the smaller seminaries including the missionary seminary and, of course, religious orders.

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    3. Oh for f**ks sake, Fly on Th Wall would you, if you are capable, write in a way that is feckin intelligible?? Is there something feckin wrong with you? Are you feckin Vicky Pollard? Yeah but no but hi but no but hi??? Feckin eejit.

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      1. Fly on Th WalL 9th Jan 2019 — 8:34 pm

        Now now hi, 11.34 & 9.19 Money was an issue in the past I heard it being mentioned by a senior priest when a prospective candidate was being assessed for seminary many years ago. Poor Vicky Pollard but. I wonder if she was a priest in a previous lifetime. Ruination hi ruination of church & society are these snooty buggers who are more interested in syntax rather than spirituality and hevangilism hi but

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  22. Oh, yes! Canon (ball) Maguire. I remember him, and his humungous erection.😆

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    1. G’wan! Someone dare ask me what I meant by ‘humungous erection’.

      What what!😆

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      1. 10.10: Maggie, you certainly don’t fit the description, ‘humungous erection’ – your head though can be aptly described!!

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      2. 10:10
        you’ve lost me there, so y’ have now, begorrah!☺

        Like

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