THE ORDAINATION OF WOMEN – YES OR NO?

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I have very mixed feelings about the ordination of women.

In principle I agree with it – but in practice I have misgivings about the women priests and ministers I have met.

What I am trying to say is that we should have women priests – but they should not be CLERICS!

The background to most of the RC church’s problems is to be found in CLERICS and CLERICALISM.

Jesus founded a very community based church – and the leaders in it, like Jesus himself, were SERVANTS and not MASTERS. He said: “I came to serve and not to be served. He 

But he was hardly gone away when the men in the community began to emerge as a ruling class.

That was worsened when the RC crowd threw in their lot with the emperor and you had a ready made establishment which has grown ever more power hungry by the day and year.

ry mixed feelings about the ordination of women.

 

“The word “Cleric” comes from the ecclesiastical Latin Clericus, for those belonging to the priestly class. In turn, the source of the Latin word is from the Ecclesiastical Greek Clericus, meaning appertaining to an inheritance, in reference to the fact that the Levitical priests of the Old Testament had no inheritance except the Lord.[1] “Clergy” is from two Old French words, clergié and clergie, which refer to those with learning and derive from Medieval Latin clericatus, from Late Latin clericus (the same word from which “cleric” is derived).[2] “Clerk”, which used to mean one ordained to the ministry, also derives from clericus. In the Middle Ages, reading and writing were almost exclusively the domain of the priestly class, and this is the reason for the close relationship of these words.[3] Within Christianity, especially in Eastern Christianity and formerly in Western Roman Catholicism, the term cleric refers to any individual who has been ordained, including deacons, priests, and bishops.[4] In Latin Roman Catholicism, the tonsure was a prerequisite for receiving any of the minor orders or major orders before the tonsure, minor orders, and the subdiaconate were abolished following the Second Vatican Council.[5] Now, the clerical state is tied to reception of the diaconate.[6] Minor Orders are still given in the Eastern Catholic Churches, and those who receive those orders are ‘minor clerics.'[7]
The use of the word “Cleric” is also appropriate for Eastern Orthodox minor clergy who are tonsured in order not to trivialize orders such as those of Reader in the Eastern Church, or for those who are tonsured yet have no minor or major orders. It is in this sense that the word entered the Arabic language, most commonly in Lebanon from the French, as kleriki (or, alternatively, cleriki) meaning “seminarian.” This is all in keeping with Eastern Orthodox concepts of clergy, which still include those who have not yet received, or do not plan to receive, the diaconate.
A priesthood is a body of priests, shamans, or oracles who have special religious authority or function. The term priest is derived from the Greek presbyter (πρεσβύτερος, presbýteros, elder or senior), but is often used in the sense of sacerdos in particular, i.e., for clergy performing ritual within the sphere of the sacred or numinous communicating with the gods on behalf of the community. instructed his disciples to follow that model of servanthood”. (Wikipedia)

I believe that the development of “priests” becoming “clerics” has done a disfavour to the church.

The priest/pastor/minister is the servant of the church community. The cleric, with its various and ascending ranks has led to ambition, abuse of power, sense of entitlement, corruption, etc.

We have too many “clerics” as it is – and we do not want to add women clerics to the cleric catalogue.

The whole notion of cleric needs to be abolished and also the great divide between clerics and laity.

One way to do this might be to go back to the Pauline doctrine of priests having a regular day job or profession – earning his own keep – serving the community voluntarily at evenings and weekends.

In a way this is how we operate at The Oratory. Our priests are self financing by being is work and serve the community when not in the regular work. Our priests have and do work as teachers, social workers, youth workers, addiction counselling etc. They get no income from The Oratory Society.

For 33 years I have, as well as being a priest and bishop, have worked as a journalist and columnist for which I was well paid and which I was able to fit my ministry around. I have also done voluntary work with cancer patients. And of course I get fees and donations for weddings – religious and non religious.

The women priests and ministers I have met dressed up like male clerics and were just as bossy and bullying as their male counterparts. That was because they were clerics in full time church employment.

The ordination of women needs to be done in the context of a non clerical structure.

The last thing we need is bullying and ambitious female deacons, priests and bishops.

It would make a bad situation worse.

womens-ordination

 

131 thoughts on “THE ORDAINATION OF WOMEN – YES OR NO?

  1. The strident feminists who shout loudest to be made priests are the very people we don’t want or need as priests. Totally wrong motivations. Any woman worth her salt knows she is equal, but has the self-esteem to know this does not mean having to be the same. St. Teresa of Avila and others did their own work, they confidently faced down Popes without feeling any need to copy the boys. More nonsense.

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    1. What feminists?

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      1. We’ve suffered enough damage from homo’s like yourself, we don’t need a bunch of lesbians foisted upon us now.

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    2. 6:50

      Evasion (of my question above): the last refuge of the intellectually cowardly.

      If you are the poster at 11:39, perhaps, in future, you’ll treat the rest of us to a considered, and FACTUAL, post rather than to something or other conjured up in your imagination.😆

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    3. Which pope did Teresa of Avila face down. Emotional nonsense from you to justify misogyny. What are you afraid of? 11.39

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  2. Ciaran O’Carroll does not want his secret holidays with Paul Tighe to be discussed by you on this blog Pat.
    They are just two men drinking disaronno and sharing a cabin in the apennine mountains.

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    1. You should add “two very fine men” to your screed. I just hope to God that such malevolent stupidity is not issuing from a Priest’s mouth.

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  3. YES !

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  4. I’d be concerned about going to confession..’bless me “mother” for i have sinned’..and then after telling your sins being a woman she’d be gossiping about then all over the town. No way can’t have that.

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    1. Rocking Rev Edinburgh 27th Jan 2019 — 11:39 am

      Immature and childish response

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      1. Immature and childish indeed. MISOGYNY is the chief obstacle to women priests.

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  5. No way! That would be the end of the seal of the confessional.

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    1. Yes, you’re obviously an intellectual heavyweight.😆

      Liked by 1 person

  6. The catholic church says they will not ordain sexually active men. They do.
    The church has a special policy to say it cannot ordain sexually active gay men. It seems to be great at ordsining these men.
    My question is; has a woman ever actually applied to her bishop asking if he will nominate her to seminary? Now this would be interesting. If she was told no based on gender what would the legal response be? There may be different answers north and south of the border too.

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    1. A friend of mine belonged for a time to a religious congregation in England which is set up for older women to live religious life. They once had a postulant arrive, who it turned out was a man in drag!
      Honestly, men try to get into everything!

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      1. How did the religious women discover it was a man in drag?😉

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      2. Lol.

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    2. 4:26
      They probably heard him fart a lot in bed. Isn’t this what blokes do? 😆

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      1. 10:42
        Magna, you raise further questions! Were the religious women sharing a dorm or were the bedroom walls paper thin? Who knows! Are you suggesting women don’t fart a lot in bed?
        Maybe Lollipop Josie could enlighten us on that one? 🍭

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  7. I suppose the classic, staple mysogynists’ answer is: ‘Well, did Jesus call women to be part of the Twelve Apostles? Seemingly not.
    But the so-called summoning of the ‘Twelve Apostles’ is not considered by ANY theologian to be the pivotal moment of Church birth. No; this is considered to be Pentecost, when, according to Acts of the Apostles, many more persons were present, including the possibility of women. However, the mysogynistic (possibly homosexual) early Church fathers decided to airbrush women out of the ministerial Church picture.
    And the rest is (heavily revised) Church history.😕

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    1. 1.54: The good news Magna is that you too will soon be history – and forgotten. So, while you have time on earth try to do something worthwhile and useful. Tempus fugit! Carpe diem!!

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      1. Oh, dear! Did my post upset you so much that you answered in a completely irrelevant way? ‘
        ‘A non-answer’, in other words. 😆

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    2. More bull🙈

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      1. 10:39
        ‘More bull (shit)’. You forgot the second syllable.
        I do so hate loose ends. 😆

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  8. Front page of Sunday Times and an article written by Justine McCarthy available online. Meath priest refused Fianna Fáil TD communion at a funeral.

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    1. 3.08: I don’t believe in refusing anyone communion. If we single out a politician we may as well refuse almost half, if not more of the congregation – sadly 66% voted in favour of ‘abortion’. Many people in our congregations knowingly voted for abortion by voting for repeal the 8th amendment. Be it on their conscience for the rest of their lives for consigning the unborn child to such a horror as abortion. Time will show us our moral blindness and the scale of abortion on demand.

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    2. Those who procure abortion, such as those who vote for it, either in the referendum or the Dail, excommunicate themselves and as such cannot receive Holy Communion as they are not part of the flock any more.

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      1. Cardinal Timothy Dolan of New York has stated this week that excommunication should not be used as a weapon.

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    3. I hope the TD responds by refusing to pay that clerical parasite’s bills in future.
      Two can play that stupid powergame, Fathers dear.

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      1. Who pays your DLA, ESA & Housing Benefit? The taxpayer, that’s who. At least churchgoers have a choice whether or not to put into the collection but as a taxpayer I have no choice as to whether I subsidise people like Magna Carta who can blog day and night and clearly do not work for a living.

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      2. @ 4.36
        Which Dolan is that? Is it “nighty-night baby, I love you” who puts up muscly Italian actors ?

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    4. 5:20
      If only you knew!😅

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      1. 6:55
        ‘Nighty-night’ texter was Cardinal Joe Tobin of the Archdiocese of Newark. He’s a pal of Ted McCarrick.

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  9. Pat, your last observation that the last thing we need are bullying and ambitious female deacons, priests or bishops! Really. There are plenty of bullies around in all walks of life. There is no perfect church community anywhere. There will always be divisions, power struggles and potential abuse opportunities wherever you have groups or organisations with ambitions. I’m not sure about the solution to our present dilemma but I am certain of one thing: unless we include all the people of God in our christian community set up and structures we will isolate even more people. But, the areas if leadership and ministry have to be meaningful and relevant. Women, I believe have to be a greater visibility at all levels of Church organisation, influence and ministry. Perhaps if each Diocese had independence of creativity, imagination and vision for all people we might begin a new time! St. Paul tells us today: “We are the Body of Christ..”. Therefore, we each have something worthwhile to contribute. Can we begin somewhere, sometime soon?

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    1. 9:02;
      Creativity, imagination and vision in the Irish Church! Dream on…!

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  10. We used to have a methodist minister in the village called Judith. A remarkable woman and a great preacher. No fancy vestments.

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    1. Join the Methodists, then, seeing as they are so great.

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      1. There is a dialogue going on between the RC and the methodist church. Some regard the Methodists as a lost charism of the church. They regard them selves as vessels of God’s grace. One of the Wesleys use to pray the rosary.

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      2. Is it Karen or Keith?
        Why do you hate women so much, Keith?😆

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      3. Oh how great that a woman is contributing (10.11) to this monosexual site — but how not great is the tone of what she says.

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      4. I am 9.46 and also a woman.

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      5. 10.11
        You have nothing constructive to add to this debate.

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  11. Magna Carta's Mum 27th Jan 2019 — 10:08 am

    Magna darling, have you got my bugia? Good. Well give the little bell a ring and let’s get this show on the road!

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    1. Mommie Dearest, don’t you remember? You pawned it for that extra-sumptious mitre you had your eyes on when we were last in Rome.
      Don’t you find it strange, dearest, that bishops of the Roman Rite insist on the bugia, which in Italian means ‘lie’?
      Then again, perhaps it’s not strange after all.☺

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      1. Magna Carta's Mum 27th Jan 2019 — 4:20 pm

        Oh yes! Mummy’s not as young as she was

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      2. 5:45pm i
        I failed to mention another hot dame who contributes to the blog, Lollipop Josie! 🙋
        Josie is partial to a lot of lolly! 🍭

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    2. 5:45; Hey, don’t forget Mrs. Carta, Magna’s mum! 👵

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  12. It doesn’t look as though we are going to get much reasoned argument on this topic. So far, it’s just formulaic, prejudicial stuff – women won’t be able to keep the seal of the confession, women will be bossy and more clerical than the present clerics we have, etc. etc. Come, you can do better than that, surely !
    There is a great crisis in the Church. Certainly in the west, the Church is imploding, In part because of the undermining of its integrity through the clerical abuse scandal, and also because of deeper changes in western society. The end result is less people in the pews and less priests. So, if you want to get this Church back on track there needs to be radical thinking. About clericalism and hierarchy, models of Church, models of ministry and priesthood. And that includes seriously considering what priests do and how they do it, Church governance, clerical celibacy, clerical gender exclusivism, and consideration of married clergy and female clergy. Most of whom in my model would be part time, so that they would be grounded in the real world of work and family.
    Oh, I can hear the howls of derision and venomous outpouring already. It’s what I have come to expect. But, perhaps some people will take the time to consider and debate these things rationally and calmly ? I live in hope…….

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    1. Why would any self respecting woman want to join the clerical club?

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      1. 10.41: Women have much to offer by way of ministry and service in the Christian community. But let’s not be under any illusion that they are not bullies or power hungry like men. I’ve had horrible experiences with women who were absolute bullies and abusive. I know of 2 cases where action had to be taken against women employees in a Church. So, none of us is not without some desire for status and to get there we may engage in bullying. No bully should ever be tolerated. No one within the church who is a bully should not be in leadership.

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      2. Rocking Rev Edinburgh 27th Jan 2019 — 11:41 am

        The butch gay ones me thinks

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      3. I agree. Female principals in the mid-ulster area, both current and past have engaged in bullying behaviour that has ruined the lives of numerous individuals. Usually over ambitious and underachieving types for whom the term Dunning Kruger could have aptly been coined.

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    2. 10:33am;
      I have no problem with the model of Church you outline. However, the Church is not exactly renowned for radical thinking. (Don’t hold your breath). I’m not sure such changes would necessarily get the Church ‘back on track’, as you put it.
      The crisis in the Church is, in my view, a moral, spiritual and crisis of faith, more than anything else. Various factors have contributed to where we are at, including, CSA, cover up, clerical/ hierarchical hypocrisy etc…poor religious education, appalling leadership within the hierarchy, societal factors…etc. The list goes on…
      Innovation in terms of ministry, roles and organization, is not necessarily going to make any major difference and would, to my mind, probably make matters worse. I’m inclined to agree with Bishop Pat on this one.

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      1. Nailed it. The sickness can’t be fixed by organisational furthering.

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    3. 1:02
      Jeez! I sometimes wonder about the standard of intelligence of some who post here.
      You are thinking of personalities, not a whole sex.
      Because some female personalities behave like (or worse) than their male counterparts does not tarnish an entire sex.
      Would you ever grow up!😠

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      1. 2:19
        Jeez! I sometimes wonder about the standard of intelligence of some who post here.
        You are thinking of personalities, not a whole priesthood.
        Because some priest personalities behave like (or worse) than their lay counterparts does not tarnish an entire priesthood.
        Would you ever grow up!😃

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    4. What priests do?
      Go cottaging? I don’t think we’d get women priests doing that.

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      1. They’ll play with dildos all day instead.

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    5. 5:25

      But didn’t you know that ALL priests, regardless of personality, are tarnished from the monent they ritually vow obedience to a mitred Christ-betrayer at their ordinations, making Christ-betrayers of themselves in turn?😆

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  13. The Church has said there will be NO women Priests under the current Pontiff, However Pope Francis has set up a team to look at Female Deacons, However my personal thoughts on this is not good as we have enough with these Pastoral Assists and Admin Staff.
    Cork and Down you keep going on about Bishop Noel his home is also the diocesan offices.
    As for His Lord ship Bishop Noel he is out on the road doing Confirmations he is at St. Vincent de Paul’s today.

    All Bishops now do Confirmations after the Holy See within Cardinal Robert Sarah Congregation of the Sacraments and Devine Worship has warned them it is their duty to administer Confirmations.

    Sadly cardinal Robert Sarah’s time is up this year so it will be interesting if Pope Francis appoints him again.

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    1. I love silence. Cardinal Sarah has written a great book called “The Power of Silence”. Silence moves you from the ego to your deepest true self. In a group I was in we spent 30 minds in silent prayer together before we made major decisions. Meditation and mindfulness are becoming very popular. We live in a very egotistical aggressive era. We have lost contact with our inner selves and God.

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      1. Sounds like an excuse for a swingers party

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      2. Tell that to the institutional Roman Catholic Church. It has lost contact with everyone but itself. It’s why the Church is in such a moral mess.

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      3. 11:38
        Silence is potentially very therapeutic. Silence before the blessed sacrament is the fastest route to deep intimacy with the Lord.
        It takes time, commitment and regularity but bears tremendous fruit.
        (John 15:16.)

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      4. Sarah and inspiration? In the same sentence? Oxymoron.

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    2. The report by the papal commission investigating the diaconate for women in the early Church is already in Francis’ possession.
      Don’t expect much from a pope who is two-faced.😆

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      1. Better being two faced than a sickening, farcical hypocrite like you😂😆😂

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      2. Magna, my comment about the Methodists was not about their female minister. I have no opinion on Protestant female clergy as it’s an internal matter for them.
        I was though suggesting that Catholics who think that the Catholic Church should be like the Protestant churches would save themselves a lot of time, bother and angst and by joining eg Methodists if what they are doing is so much better.
        I don’t understand people who remain in the Church for decades all the while complaining about it. It’s not as if such people believe that the Catholic Church is the true church or better than the others. So why stay and be a miseryguts when the Lord loves a cheerful giver and perfectly good alternative churches are available, with all the desired attributes.
        It is deeply cynical and selfish if some Catholics are seeking to change the Church from within to make it just like the Anglicans or for a cause, when the Anglicans etc already exist. If that happens what home is there for Catholics who don’t want to be like the Anglicans, Methodists etc?

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      3. Lollipop Josie 27th Jan 2019 — 2:04 pm

        1.10: What excuses your moral mess Magna? Just askinnnnnnng!!!Like…..

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    3. Keith, it isn’t about making the Roman Catholic Church like any Protestant church. Where did you get such a silly idea?
      It is about reform of the INSTITUTIONAL Roman Catholic Church. Surely, even you Keith could not be happy with such a morally vile blot on the Christian landscape.
      Could you, Keith?😕

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      1. I am sure if there were hundreds of dashing young men wanting to join the priesthood we could stay where we are. The last big intake for the priesthood in my diocese was 1965. As you can imagine they are now past their prime. Change is being forced on the church. Vocations to the priesthood are usually greatest when there is little access to third level education. I have a friend who has a degree in theology from Cambridge and is deeply spiritual. When she runs retreats or preaches she is a lot better than a lot of priests. If we can’t have priests, why not lay preachers. Foreign priests and English lay preachers.

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    4. 1:43
      ‘sickening, farcical hypocrite’? You’ve described that Latino to a tee.😆

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    5. Anonymous
      Simple Simon at 11:12am
      Sadly there is no way auld Fanny will reappoint Cardinal Sarah who is too conservative for the shower of heretics running the show in Rome at the moment, they don’t like anything that is too Catholic.

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  14. Pat, please ordain Big Delia. She’d make a great priest and if anyone needs anything amputated Bob’s your auntie!
    After all, Jesus did say, if your right hand, etc, should cause you to sin, cut it off! She’s a dab hand with the aul kitchen knife.

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  15. We are talking about inclusion hi. To imply women are less effective because they are female hi is discrimination but. Hanyway I thought this was a catholic blog site not a Roman Catholic one. Lave them to it and lead by example hi. Talk is cheap cheap

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    1. Fly on The Wall: what’s with this ridiculous ‘hi’ stuff ? Please leave it out and write sentences that are complete and make sense. That way your message might then be understood. Just saying….

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      1. Hi Fly on Th Wall;
        Fly, l like your style hi 👋
        Don’t let them chang yo or make conform.By fly.🦟

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      2. Fly on Th Wall 27th Jan 2019 — 8:24 pm

        Correct grammatical context doesn’t always reveal truth on here and sometimes it points to a worrying attitude and sub agenda hi.

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  16. Instead of Grindr they would be on Tinder, Bp Pat, or PinkCupid as most would probably be lesbians. Instead of cruising they would be dogging.

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    1. Fly on Th Wall 27th Jan 2019 — 8:21 pm

      3.14. Thanks Sad people have to resort to pseudo personalities to make a point on here. Says a lot with no disrespect to Pat intended. Right hi lads / ladies of all denominations orientations and persuasions. Get tblazes out of junior school and try and make a genuine difference but.

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  17. The women deacons thing is all about incrementalism. Get people used to women in the clergy and why stop at deacon? Next step priest, next step bishop.
    That’s how it was done in the CofE. Funnily enough, those Anglican women who thought they had a vocation to be a deaconess when that was all that was available, upgraded themselves to deacon and priest as opportunities arose.
    The female diaconate (invented ab initio if it happens) is a stepping stone, nothing more.

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    1. Yes; and Roman Catholic clerical ranking (hierarchy) is all about power and self-aggrandisement. It is why popes, from the 12th century, started to call themselves ‘Vicar of Christ”. And it is why popes from even before the 19th century started to think of themselves as ontologically reordered to become infallible.

      So if self-advancement and public grandstanding is the motive for your opposition to the ordination of women as deacons, where is your post opposing Roman Catholic clerical hierarchy?😕

      The two are peas in a pod.😆

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      1. Magna Carta's Mum 27th Jan 2019 — 4:12 pm

        Magna darling, did you mean to say ‘reordered’, as in a church which has been rearranged and painted magnolia, or did you mean ‘disordered’? Come on, darling, this is mummy you’re talking to.

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    2. Dearest, wouldn’t it be a wizard heeeze if popes stopped dressing in those awful ivory-coloured clothes and instead wore magnolia?
      They could then describe themselves, variously, as reordered, disordered, and just plain out-of-order.
      Everyone would believe them, then. Wouldn’t they?😊

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    3. 1.29
      Yes. It’s called evolution.

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  18. Pat, Big Bedelia is all excited about being a priest. It’s not that she’s looking it for herself. No. It’s to be of greater service of the parishioners of Poleglass and to be of even more valuable assistance to Aidan. She says, if you will ordain her, all will be forgiven and she won’t knock yer block off when she gets her eyes on ye.

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  19. Won’t someone of intelligence and learning even attempt to answer my post at 1:54? About Pentecost, and the birth of the Church?
    Women were very, very likely present at that watershed moment (including the ‘Apostle to the Apostles’, Mary Magdalene) and would have been anointed, just like the men present, by the Holy Spirit.
    G’wan! Someone have a go.😆

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    1. Fair play, Magna. You answer my questions so I will give this a try. We need a discussion about whether Jesus was limited by the culture of his time to invite women to the same roles as men. Was it too dangerous, not for Jesus, but for women if Jesus had called them among the twelve? This could well be the case. But, there are now so many other problems at so many levels.

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      1. Think this article is what you allude to Magna. The fact that Mary Magdalene was given the same status as the apostles in 2016 with regard to her ‘Feast day’ by Pope Francis is indicative of how the enquiry into the Diaconate for women will side.
        https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.catholicnewsagency.com/amp/news/mary-magdalene-apostle-to-the-apostles-gets-upgraded-feast-day-77857

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    2. I remember a priest saying Mary called down the Holy Spirit on the apostles at Pentecost.

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      1. Must be true if he said it.

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      2. Dear 4.46
        Read the Acts of the Apostles a bit more intelligently. You’ll find the Holy Spirit descended on the 120 or so disciples gathered there, including Mary the mother of Jesus. So not just apostles.

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    3. You should read what Scripture says about Pentecost first: Acts 1, 13-14 talks about a community consisting of the 11, and a group of women including Mary the mother of Jesus, and his brothers. Then Peter talks to the “assembled brotherhood” about 120 in all. Chapter 2 says they were all together when the Holy Spirit descended on them. It’s not totally clear if the women were among the 120 but Luke the author of Acts goes out of his way to mention the presence of women as he does in his Gospel also. Surely all those praying women would not be excluded from the Pentecost experience?

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    4. Can it not be argued that Jesus called women into all religious roles society would accept them into, and did so in the fullness of the Spirit. 2000 years on and we have evolved somewhat… or at least some of us have.

      There’s plenty of great women who would make great priests – is there a fear that they would make better priests than those we have?

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  20. A survey of bishops in the U.S. released this week found that among respondants, 41 percent believe it theoretically possible to ordain women as deacons, and only 33 percent believe this should be allowed.The survey was released by the Center for Applied Research in the Apostolate at Georgetown University.It was sent to 192 bishops, of whom 108 responded.

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  21. How true Pat

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  22. I see the Impartial Reporter newspaper has highlighted a huge bust up between Mgr Joe McGuinness and one of the Clogher Priests. The PP who is regarded as ‘difficult’ refused a TV crew access to film in his graveyard. Joe McG then went over his head and granted them permission and there was a tremendous bust up between the pair. The paper states McGuinness had to issue an apology. Very interesting read.

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    1. Embarrassing for us Catholics in Enniskillen and throughout the diocese to read about this row between two of our priests. Childish, immature and ridiculous. Just when the clergy couldn’t embarrass us any further. One is a hot head with a temper and anger issues and another a failed wannabe bishop – how pathetic!!

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      1. What’s D’Arcy got to say about it all?

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  23. Pat Mullaney and the few drinks in her at Sunday lunch in Café Bum Bum saying Maynooth has been ordaining women for years and years now and not a word about it

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    1. Don’t know anyone called Pat Mullaney

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    2. 5:20
      That explains everything!😳 Women in drag as men. 😲

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    3. Jejune 5.20

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  24. Ordain women to the priesthood and that is an end of a model that has endured for 2,000 years. I’m good with that, but the goal is to alert your everyday Christian to the grace of their baptism, not to tailor a whole new wardrobe of clerical tat to the larger lady’s figure. The Anglicans have been crippled by this debate for fifty years to no discernible benefit to anybody: bossy harridans claiming entry into the club in one camp, and hysterical queens claiming you might as well try to ordain a vacuum cleaner on the other.

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    1. Go to an Anglican service and hear a woman deacon, priest or bishop preach. You’ll be won over and realize the nonsense of excluding half of humanity.

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  25. Women are just as capable as men. I am used to a culture where people are honest and transparent. I am used to a culture where gay people are not seen as odd or sinful. I am used to freedom of speech and conscience. I am used to the backing of a union if things go wrong. Why should I want to give all that up to work for the church? Why should I want to give up the human rights of the third millennium to take on those of the middle ages?

    Liked by 1 person

  26. 4:38 & 4:46
    Thank you both for your efforts.
    Jewish society of Jesus’ time remained obviously, and heavily, patriarchal. And Jesus, being entirely human, was (and, in important ways, was not) a product of his time. As you know, his choosing twelve persons as initial followers (disciples) was to represent the entire Jewish people (the twelve tribes of Israel), including the ten tribes that were ‘lost’ (in all probability, culturally assimilated) during the Assyrian conquest and occupation of the nothern kingdom, Israel, in the tenth century BC. Had Jesus chosen women for this purpose, or a combination of men and women, he would probably have met with strong opposition, especially from Jewish rabbis, for what would have been taken not only as a gross insult, but more seriously, as a breach of the covenant which, by Jewish tradition, had been formed between the ancient Israelites and Yahweh at Mount Sinai. The covenant, again by Jewish tradition, ordered only men to observe the Law; women were ordered to do so only indirectly, and by men. Thus patriarchy was codified and enshrined in Jewish law.
    Jesus would have been a fool not to have observed this tradition, and he would likely have faced death much sooner than he did, and for a reason other than that stated by the Gospel: for blasphemy (claiming to be God), according to the judgement of the Sanhedrin; officially for treason, according to Roman law. So your point, 4:38, that it would have been dangerous for Jesus to have chosen women as well as men (or women exclusively) is highly valid.
    There are, however, reasons other than Jewish cultural condiderations for believing that women as well as men were anointed by the Holy Spirit during the festival of Pentecost. According to Ch 1 of Acts, the Twelve, along with ‘the women and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with his brothers’ all stayed together in the ‘Upper Room’, where they devoted themselves to prayer’. And this makes sense from a psychological perspective as well as a spiritual one. The followers of Jesus, according to tradition, were in some fear and disarray following the savage death of their master, Jesus, just fifty days earlier. So banding together in this way would undoubtedly have been a strength, comfort, and assurance to them all.
    Ch 2 of Acts goes on to state that ‘when the day of Pentecost had come, they were ALL together in one place’, when ‘suddenly a sound came from heaven…’. The rest is history, or, rather, heavily revised patriarchal history that has excluded women from prominent (or priestly) roles in the Church, just as Jewish patriarchy had excluded women from similar roles in liturgical worship.
    If anyone remains doubtful about the place of women on this sacred and monumental occasion, Pentecost, he should read the prophet quoted by Peter when he, in the company of the remaining Twelve, moved forward to address a gathering of curious onlookers attracted by the disciples’ ‘speaking in tongues’:
    ‘Men of Judea (of course, the semitic use of ‘men’ here means ‘every Jew, including women’)…give ear to my words. For these men are not drunk as you suppose (a reasonable conclusion by the onlookers, given the uncustomary, ecstatic but incoherent ‘speaking in tongues’)…but this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel: “And in the last days it shall be, God declares, that I will pour out my Spirit upon ALL flesh, and your sons and DAUGHTERS shall prophesy…”. ‘

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    1. zzzzzzz Wikipedia eat your heart out. Zzzzzzzzzz

      Like

      1. 7:08

        Show me where in Wikipedia my post is?

        Good luck with that! Hah hah hah 😅

        😆

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      2. No, more like ‘Scripture for Dummies’ ROFFL. Ha ha ha.

        Like

      3. LillieThe Crack Bat 27th Jan 2019 — 9:10 pm

        7.08: You’re right. Wikipedia all the way. Magna is lecturing, lecturing but will not tolerate any other view. He has become utterly predictable and boring repetitive. Yamn, yawn….

        Like

    2. 6:44; Magna, good post. Keep Rockin! 👍

      Like

    3. 9:10
      Wikipedia all the way?😅
      Prove it. 😆

      Like

  27. Lollipop Josie 27th Jan 2019 — 7:12 pm

    2.19 and 5.25: Would the real Magna please stand up? Now we know this thing called Magna is a multiplicity of personalities – one more disordered than the other! A psychological mess is our Mags!

    Like

    1. Go on, Lollipop. Answer my post above.

      Show us all that you have some intelligence.😆

      Like

      1. Lollipop Josie 27th Jan 2019 — 8:16 pm

        7.16: Magna, you have made good points but no need to reiterate them ad infinitum. You don’t respect other opinions. You’ve taken over this blog.

        Like

    2. Lollipop Josie at 8:16
      Reiterate my points? What an odd thing to say! My post at 6:44 is the first of its kind from me.😕

      Like

  28. Is anyone opposed to the ordination of women in the Church intellectually capable of making a serious counter-argument to my post at 6:44?

    Or are you all zombified?😆

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    1. I have met some very impressive nuns. Clever, grounded and compassionate. They would have made terrific priests. In the end it is the church’s loss.

      Like

      1. 8:07
        I agree.
        What moral and theological myopia to limit the dispensation of God’s grace to men! 😲
        It’s called ‘patriarchy’. 😕

        Like

    2. Have you not got the message by now Magna? Let me state the obvious as you seem incapable of taking the hint – we don’t give a toss about your post or about you for that matter.

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      1. MournemanMichael 28th Jan 2019 — 8:55 am

        Speak only for yourself. Of late I have found Magna’s posts illuminating and instructive: challenging indeed to many, but a viewpoint well articulated and backed up evidentially.
        MMM

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    3. 8:30

      😢

      Like

      1. “Magna Carta”: It’s fruitless arguing with composite/multiple personalities/a whole tribe of gay clerical trolls. You never know which one of the gay clerical trolls you are addressing and which one, probably a different one, will answer you back. So sling yer hook(s)!😆😆😆

        Like

  29. Not william Crean 27th Jan 2019 — 7:53 pm

    Any news from Cloyne?

    Like

    1. They’ve closed all the public toilets, i.e. gents, as a precaution.

      Like

  30. We’d rather not have the “PP of Dibley” on our screens, thank you very much.

    Like

  31. The First Blast of the Trumpet Against the Monstruous Regiment of Women. (John Knox)

    Like

  32. That’s a big turnout at that demo in St Peter’s Square, as shown in the photo Pat’s used to illustrate this blog item.

    Like

  33. 9:19
    Dead on, my son! Dead on. 👍

    Like

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