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MC CARRICK SHOULD BE EXCOMMUNICATED AND PLACED IN A VATICAN CELL.

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ROME – Various news agencies have reported, and Crux has confirmed, that the Vatican will shortly announce a ruling in the case of former Cardinal Theodore McCarrick, accused of sexual abuse of a 16-year-old boy more than 50 years ago as well as various incidents with adult priests and seminarians.
By all accounts, McCarrick will lose his clerical status, more commonly known as being “laicized” or “defrocked.” When that decision is involuntary, it’s considered the death penalty for a cleric in Church law, the most severe punishment that can be imposed for especially heinous offenses.
McCarrick already received an unusual sanction in July, when he became the first cardinal in a century to lose his red hat. Assuming the laicization happens, he would also be the highest-ranking Catholic cleric in modern times to suffer that penalty.
Much of the reporting has indicated that the timing of the announcement is deliberate, in that Pope Francis and his Vatican team want the McCarrick case to be resolved before a high-profile summit of presidents of bishops’ conferences from around the world on the clerical abuse scandals set for Feb. 21-24.
Here’s the thing, however: Even if McCarrick is defrocked, that hardly would mean his case is over.
To be sure, the specter of a former cardinal suffering the Church’s ultimate penalty would send an important signal ahead of the pope’s summit, suggesting that Francis is committed to a “zero tolerance” policy no matter who’s involved.
In all honesty, however, all that would accomplish is confirming something that most observers believe should have been settled a long time ago: That, in the words of St. John Paul II, “there is no place in the priesthood and religious life for those who would harm the young.”
We’ve known for a while that at least in most parts of the West, the Catholic Church has adopted stern accountability measures for clergy who commit the crime of abuse of a minor. Faced with such an allegation, a cleric will be immediately suspended from ministry while a Church investigation unfolds and his case is reported to civil authorities. If he’s found guilty, he’ll probably suffer loss of the clerical state, meaning he’ll be defrocked.
That’s been true for more than a decade now, and the only thing such a decision in the McCarrick case would add is that cardinals aren’t exempt.
Yet that’s only half the battle, because what survivors and reformers really want isn’t just accountability for the crime, but also for the cover-up.
What’s angered people from the beginning about the McCarrick scandal isn’t simply the pattern of behavior that’s been exposed, which may be especially galling because it involves an ex-cardinal but which, in itself, is sadly familiar. What’s created the deep sense of frustration one senses at the Catholic grassroots is the perception that senior authority figures in the Church were aware of concerns about McCarrick but continued to move him up the ladder, often for reasons of politics and self-interest.
From the beginning, the clamor hasn’t just been for disciplinary action against McCarrick, however welcome some people may find such an outcome to be. (In all honesty, laicization at this point is mostly symbolic, given that McCarrick is 88 and kept under wraps at a Capuchin friary in western Kansas – ironically enough, just about 15 miles from where I grew up.)
The real demand has been for full disclosure about who knew what, and when – who propelled his rise to power, and what did they know about the rumors and reports concerning McCarrick at the time?
Early on, Francis seemed to grasp that dealing with the cover-up would be just as important as dealing with the crime. A Vatican statement said he had ordered a “thorough study of the entire documentation present in the archives of the dicasteries and offices of the Holy See” in order to ascertain “all the relevant facts, to place them in their historical context and to evaluate them objectively.”
How or when the results of that review might be communicated wasn’t made clear, although a Vatican statement said that conclusions will be revealed “in due course.”
At the time, the Vatican also seemed prepared to let the chips fall where they may, signaling that the investigation might place some senior churchmen in a bad light.
“From the examination of the facts and of the circumstances, it may emerge that choices were taken that would not be consonant with a contemporary approach to such issues,” that statement said.
Finally, the Vatican explained the reasons for such a review of its files in the clearest possible terms: “Both abuse and its cover-up can no longer be tolerated,” it said.
Precisely … there’s either accountability for both the crime and the cover-up, or the job’s not done.
It’s now been more than four months since the Vatican issued that pledge of a thorough study, and, so far, “due course” would appear not yet to have arrived since no information about the study’s findings has been released.
Granted, experts warn that there almost certainly won’t be a “smoking gun” in the archives, meaning indisputable proof that someone had firm knowledge of McCarrick’s sins and still advanced his career. At most, we’ll likely get hints and be left to connect the dots, nothing more – but, of course, even that would be more data than we’ve got right now.
If Francis and his advisers want the McCarrick case to be wrapped up before the summit later this month, therefore, just laicizing him won’t do the trick. They’ll also need to explain how we got to a point where such a move is necessary – and, of course, offer some reason to believe we won’t be here again.

PAT SAYS:

Defrocking is NOT the ultimate church punishment.

Excommunication is.

Mc Carrick and all clerics, of whatever rank, who abuse minors should be excommunication.

I was excommunicated for becoming a bishop without a papal mandate.

Which is more serious – acting without a mandate or sexually abusing a child.

McCarrick should be excommunicated.

He should also trace a canonical trial in the Vatican and be imprisoned there.

If they can do it to papal butlers for leaking documents they should certainly do it for child abuse.

72 replies on “MC CARRICK SHOULD BE EXCOMMUNICATED AND PLACED IN A VATICAN CELL.”

Two wrongs don’t make a right. Don’t lower yourself to their standards.You are better than that. I am a fan of George Tyrrel. He was excommunicated and it was wrong.

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I agree it was wrong. He was refused a Catholic funeral and is buried in an Anglican graveyard. Some years ago I celebrated a Requiem Mass at his grave side.

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Well…..it is right for McCarrick to lose his red hat and to be laicised. And then to live out the rest of his life in prayer and penance and simplicity. It is up to the civil authorities in the US to decide if he faces any criminal charges. It is up to the victims to decide if they want to take civil action. Beyond that, I think Francis, us, the Church, should exercise a degree of mercy. We do not need to excommunicate him. God will judge him in due course. I think that is enough.

I feel a bit uncomfortable with Francis pushing the McCarrick business through in order to fit with his agenda and his proposed meeting of presidents of episcopal conferences. It smacks a bit too much of scapegoating for presentational reasons. The McCarrick business should be dealt with soberly and in good order, not rushed through in order to fit Francis’ timetable.

As for those who were complicit, in denial, blind, or simply incompetent in the matter of McCarrick over the decades….well, they should be identified and named. As importantly, the culture that allowed this to happen should be condemned and changes made. The latter is perhaps the most important thing to be done that will have enduring consequences. Without a change of culture, a new way of being Church, then these problems will simply reappear in one guise or other in the future. Change and conversion is what the Church needs. Is Francis and our present leadership capable of giving us that ? I have my doubts. They are too heavily invested in the present culture in which they have been brought up and trained.

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Yes. The really substantive issue here is the process for the appointing of bishops. If that is reformed on foot of this case, some enduring good will have come from it.

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ABUSING a minor or vulnerable person is morally repugnant and the perpetrator should face the full rigour of the justice system, once the abuse is proved beyond any doubt and validated. For any church person to be committed of such a heinous crime, they should be barred from all ministry and if allowed to stay as a cleric, a life of penance, prayer and sacrifice should be enforced. I don’t believe as a Christian in being a merciless person or condemning anyone to being torn to shreds or to being an outcast for life. The victims/survivors must be paramount in our care and we must put their l7ves and needs first. We cannot act as the final arbiter of any person’s wrongful and abusive behaviour. The court systems do that. Ultimately if we believe in God, we each await his judgment and mercy. I do not have the right or authority to say of any person that they are undeserving of God’s love and mercy. McCarrick’s life is ending ignominiously and so humiliatingly in a public way. That sadly is the consequence of his decisions, choices and behaviour. As a priest I have visited parishioners in prison and I assure you that it is punishment enough to be deprived of your freedom and to have to remain under lock, for years or for life. My role is not one of judgment or condemnation – by being in prison that person sadly has brought the opprobrium on himself/herself. There is nothing gained by any cleric playing judge, juror and executioner.

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I agree that excommunication is nearly always undesirable and makes the Church look unpleasant and ridiculous – as if she needed further encouragement. It’s a form of clerical bullying and vindictiveness. Assuming McCarrick has not lost his marbles, the best he could do now would be to go on TV and be challenged over his record. However that would be the last thing the Church would wish, which days everything.

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A doctor or solicitor would just be struck off. A solicitor in the UK has been struck off for fare dodging. Anyone who has power over people should be held to very high ethical standards… or face the consequences.

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There is no punishment more severe, more humiliating, more crushing of human spirit than serving a life of prayer and penitence, in splendid isolation and physical comfort, with all one’s bills paid by the laity 🐑. Can’t you see this?
Roman Catholic clerical parasites made to endure such unspeakable consequences, by a merciless and ruthless hierarchy, should, at the end of the lives, be added to the Temple of Catholic Martyrs for their heroic endurance and fortitude.
God bless Cardinal (ex-) Theodore McCarrick! And every other Roman Catholic clerical parasite, for faithfully leading us all, by example, off the narrow road of self-discipline.
This broader road is much-more easily travelled.😆

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12.32: We’re never quite sure what roads you travel Magna, (apart from a drunken one mostly), but we know that you certainly do not walk a pathway of goodness, humanity, decency, respect or mercy. It is not within your capability to carry such qualities in your heart. When you are so emblazoned with your “passionate” hatred of clerics, how could the seed of God’s love ever find root in you? How could you be an image of our God-Creator? The stridency of your vitriolic poison is unjustified, ignorant and incites only hatred and racism. There is never anything aesthetic about your language.

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McCarrick will be ‘struck off’, but there is no need for us to cut him off from the mercy of God, is there ? There is still room for mercy, even for McCarrick. Not excuses, but mercy.

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Mercy? Are you serious? Why show mercy to a man who won’t admit abusing a sixteen-year-old (who made ‘a credible accusation’ against McCarrick), but whose only (and highly implausible) response to the accusation was that he had ‘no recollection’ of abusing this youngster?

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2:53
Your understanding of God’s love is highly sentimental. When Jesus challenged the ‘righteous’ of his time and insulted and offended them by addressing them as ‘whitewashed sepulchres’ or ‘fools’, was he being gentle and nice and aesthetic?

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1.46: Maggie, you’d deserve the spits pouring down on you like the Trevi Fountain! Do you think you’d deserve wine to flow all over you? That would be a total waste…..

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Pat Mullaney was speaking in the Bum Bum and said you should be put in a Vatican cell and worse than that buried in a concrete overcoat. She is a right hoor when she gets a few drinks in her. She said she wanted to see you Oratory so she did.

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12.32: Magna, the abusive bitch is back firing on all cylinders. You may not sexually abuse others, which would be morally abhorrent, but Magna, the ugly emotional, verbal, spiritual abuse you pour out is equally morally repugnant. You are an outrage, hard hearted, inhumane and ignorant.

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1.51 another poster reacting yet again in denial to the simple facts in Magna’s comments. Why am I surprised? You are not used to candid and forthright commentary admittedly with an edge and I wonder if that is part of the greater problem. Magna’s posts are for the most part a gift to men trying to be genuine clergymen.

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1:51

You’d be surprised at how soft-hearted Magna really is. But this, most decidedly, does not make him soft on such grave matters as clerical paedophilia/ephebophilia, and on other forms of abuse by Roman Catholic clergy, whether the abuse be sexual or otherwise.

Nor is Magna soft on Roman Catholic clericalism, and the structures and theology that support it.

Don’t conflate his attitude and words on these appalling matters with his personality.

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Please remember, the penalty of excommunication is designed to bring the offender to his/her senses, so that they will repent and seek reconciliation.

Excommunication can be lifted and the person restored to full communion with the Church which is the desired end.

Dismissal from the clerical state, on the other hand, is pretty much irreversible. Even if the person repents sincerely, they won’t ever minister again – they have well and truly forfeited the right to minister.

So dismissal is the more serious sanction.

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This is a bit of a rambling diatribe. First of all, sexual abuse is wrong and self-appointing yourself to be a bishop is wrong. They’re wrong in different ways but comparing one to the other doesn’t make either right. Secondly, I’m open to correction, but I’m pretty certain a canonical trial cannot impose a prison sentence. The butler mentioned was a civil matter. As the crimes did not occur within the jurisdiction of the Vatican, McCarrick would have a ready made legal defense of a lack of jurisdiction for prosecuting the crime. For someone who claims to know civil and canon law inside out, this blog was a mess of inaccuracies.

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He was, but it wasn’t a canonical trial. It was a civil trial. There is a difference. Saying a canonical trial can impose a prison sentence is pure fantasy without any basis in fact.

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3.48: I’m not in any denial. Never was, never will be. I have probably spoken much more effectively and powerfully about sexual abuse by clergy than Magna has. I do it publicly and challenge all the wrongness of abuse, cover up, secrecy and irresponsible responses or lack thereof by Church leadership. I don’t just do so from behind a laptop in a “supposedly” concerned way but in the public sphere where I engage meaningfully with others to ensure the safety of children and vulnerable people. It’s always been my approach. Magna and Pat deserve to be challenged on their nasty, vindictive, vengeful and merciless mindset. I know my role very clearly in protecting people. To question and criticise Magna and Pat is not to condone any acts of sexual abuse. I condemn all abuse, sexual and otherwise. Any abuse destroys our integrity as human beings, including the abuse through words as evidenced frequently by Magna. I don’t need someone like Magna or you to define what being a “genuine” priest is. I received very wonderful example and witness from my parents about truth, mercy, goodness, justice and integrity!

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Sorry 6.04 but your posts don’t add up. Surely everyone is in some way in denial in life. But it’s your vitriol against Magna – did your parents teach you that. Magna does an excellent job in exposing corruption in priesthood and he has a special gift in ticking off those who deny this corruption. A divine gift perhaps to prepare for the purification.

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6.49: I didn’t express vitriol against Magna. I merely reacted with rage. He deserves criticism. He’s well able to dish out nasty, horrible, ugly, vicious comment. Just giving him a small taste of his own medicine. My parents thank God, were very honourable people who inculcated great values in me and my family. One thing they taught us was not to allow anyone destroy or take away our dignity or self worth by nasty trolls or nasty individuals! You know what I mean!!!!!

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6:49 The clearest example of absolute and unadulterated nonsense ever to appear on this blog. Delusional in fact.

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Yes 7.27 I do so for my own safety. It is an indication of how little freedom laypeople have in discussing openly ill treatment and abuses in the church. Did you not realise that is why most people post here anonymously – like yourself?

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9:47
Your ‘anger’ with me could better be described as rage, or even fury. Yes? Er, judging by the five exclamation marks following the final sentence of your post.
If your parents taught you all you claim, it didn’t include control of your temper.😆

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What about the diocese of Meath and refusing communion to a politician? Also why aren’t the diocesan clergy listed alphabetically on the diocese of Meath website? Who is on sabbatical and who has left in, say, the past two years? When people are ordained we have the Catholic Communications Office bombarding is with info and pomp and circumstance in parishes, and when the leave nothing and no listing on the website. Are people on sabbatical or have they left?

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He was a wicked man, Bp Pat. You and Magna could have both been at risk at being buggered had he visited Ireland in your younger days. Cardinal Daly would have covered it up.

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Cardinal Daly was a British agent !! A collaborator just like the regime in Vichy during the war. Ironically they were right wing Catholics as well. A truly horrible little despot

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Pat, please see Patsy McGarry’s article on Minister Josepha Madigan which has just gone online. It’s also just after being featured on the 9 0’Clock news. She calls for the church to include all. Perhaps the Diocese of Meath will take note.

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9.22: Madigan has nothing new to say. She’s a self publicist. She vociferously supports abortion. She also opposed a traveller development site in her constituency. She should look to her own morals first and foremost. When has she taken a traveller, drug addict or a homeless person under her care? Does she not appreciate the good and exemplary work of Sr. Stan Kennedy, Fr. Peter McVerry, Br. Kevin or Sr. Conailio – all amazing Christ inspired champions of the poor and disadvantaged of our society, the people her party and government constantly ignore. She’s a blazing hypocrite. She spoofs too much. Let her focus on what she should be doing as a highly well paid public TD. When she leads by example, then we might listen to her lecturing.

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The sad case of Fr Matthew Cowan of Gaylord diocese shows that that the cover-up continues. Fr Cowan, a young priest reported sexual advances by the VG. The VG was not suspended but Fr Cowan was put on administrative leave and has had his faculties withdrawn.

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Yes. McGinnity was shafted by his co-diocesan, Cardinal Tom Fee.
Fee had no guts, except for his huge gut.
Mind you, McGinnity had none either since he collabirated in his own demise.
Silly moo.

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What an ignorant post 11.14 saying that mcginnity has no guts. I don’t think that you understand what courage is.

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I didn’t think that o fee was anyone special, he possibly thought he was.
Mc ginnity was destroyed in so much as the whole debacle caused his mental health to be affected.
Yes I agree he showed great courage.
I met him once when he came to administer …..I often think of how his life might have been had those in authority had shown that they believed him.

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Burke makes me want to be sick. Oily, greasy, slippery, queeny, camp …. and completely irrelevant to the life of faith that I try to lead. All the dressing up, all the camping about, all the twee silly theology….. and the outright disobedience towards the Pope. The man is a disgrace. Look at his website, and his apostolates – Marian, Fatima, Abortion, 1950s family sort of stuff. Nothing that really speaks to the faith or Church of today. Would you let this man anywhere near your young boys ?

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Pat there has been justice or compensation for the survivors of Maynooth Institutional abuse. A Predator Director of Formation and the two senior seminarians who abused a select few. Michael Mullaney and Collins will one day face justice for protecting these predators, one of these predators is in exile in the University of Ulster Coleraine. The Kerry seminarian predator just keeps on going after younger and younger men, Pat , Mark Moriarty must be stopped before he becomes a safeguarding issue, Young people are at risk around Mark Moriarty.

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The irony of an anonymous source naming other people seems to be lost on some posters. If you have any information, no matter how small, and your post suggests you have, which proves criminal activity, go to the appropriate civil authorities.

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Excommunication. Defrocking Vatican jail More smoke and mirrors Let him be subject to civil law and its judgements. The rest is between him and God. All this high word juridical Church stuff is for the cackling mob in the Colleseum hi. Seems More about the hecklers than the heckled hi

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Pat please investigate are the two predator Maynooth seminarians a safeguarding risk. These two predators have access to schools and even vulnerable adults.

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Pat this week is Prayer for the survivors of Abuse in the Church. What about the survivors in Maynooth who were rapped and psychological abused witihn the last four years. David Dysky gang raped, Sean Hickey brutally beaten in bed, Mark Moriarty with his broken wrist, Sauna Babylonia escorted by Mullaney, the drugs and poppers supplied by Byrne, Chris Derwin entering our rooms at night with a master key, Paul Prior and his sexual encounters and Mick Collins beating students in his office and then Hughie Connolly saying Mass on a bin on a beach in France.

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Pat a vigil needs to be organised for Maynooth Survivors and a redress scheme. Pat who empowerd Mullaney, Prior and Collins to engage in such abusive behaviour patters in Maynooth.

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10:30 If you have evidence of a crime go to the guards. If you don’t have, why have you named individuals here and combined that with innuendo? That is an abuse.

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The Clogher Deacon caught on Grindr. This is worse than Rory Coyle, Ken is targeting very anyone he get his hands on. The schools in Monaghan need to be notified and the safeguarding office, Young people could be at risk when he visits Schools.

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Northern Sound has received several reports of a recent new Cleric in the Monaghan Town area adding young men on Grindr.

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