TWO CARDINALS CLAIM ABUSE IS

Two prominent Roman Catholic Church cardinals have urged an end of what they call “the plague of the homosexual agenda”, telling bishops to break their complicity over cases of sexual abuse.

In an open letter, Cardinals Burke and Brandmüller say the Church has wrongly blamed the abuse of power by clergy as the main cause of the scandals.

Instead, they say the cases involve priests who have “gone away from the truth of the Gospel”.

They also openly criticise the Pope.

Stories of sexual abuse of minors have emerged across the world and the Church has been accused of covering up crimes committed by priests.

Their letter comes on the eve of an extraordinary summit of bishops in Rome called by Pope Francis as an effort to deal with the scandals rocking the Church.

What are the cardinals saying about sex abuse?

Cardinals Raymond Burke, from the US, and Walter Brandmüller, from Germany, reject that the cases of abuse are a result of “clericalism” – a group of men abusing their power, and protecting each other.

The cardinals belong to the traditionalist wing of the Church, where many believe homosexuality is a root cause of the clerical abuse, and are both outspoken critics of Pope Francis.

“The plague of the homosexual agenda has been spread within the Church, promoted by organized networks and protected by a climate of complicity and a conspiracy of silence,” they said

“Sexual abuse is blamed on clericalism. But the first and primary fault of the clergy does not rest in the abuse of power but in having gone away from the truth of the Gospel.”

Image captionCardinals Brandmüller and Burke are outspoken critics of Pope Francis

In the Catholic hierarchy, cardinals are second in importance only to the pontiff, and there are currently 223 of them.

Cardinal Burke has links to former Trump White House adviser Steve Bannon, who will reportedly be in Rome during the summit.

Mr Burke is president of the advisory board of the right-wing Dignitatis Humanae Institute, which is setting up a leadership course with Mr Bannon’s help.

Meanwhile, Cardinal Brandmüller caused controversy last month when he blamed homosexuality for the cases of sexual abuse at the Church.

Why do they criticise the Pope?

The cardinals accuse the Pope of failing to answer questions related to whether the Church should allow divorced and remarried Catholics to receive Holy Communion – they are currently barred.

The issue, raised in 2016 by four cardinals including Burke and Brandmüller, has caused controversy in the Church, prompting many clerics to question the Pope’s leadership.

The mention of this point completely unrelated to Thursday’s summit, and the challenge to the Pope’s authority, shows that clerics who are unhappy with Pope Francis are growing more confident, observers say.

Conservative Catholics say they are trying to uphold the Church’s teachings and morals and accuse the Pope of diluting their faith.

What’s the summit about?

The summit is to be attended by the heads of all national bishops’ conferences from more than 130 countries, who will discuss the most pressing crisis facing the modern Church

Pope Francis is under pressure over the sexual abuse cases

This is the beginning of an attempt to address a sickness that has been poisoning the Church since at least the 1980s, leaving its moral authority in tatters, BBC religion editor Martin Bashir says.

Pope Francis must also confront the assumptions, attitudes and practices that have allowed a culture of abuse to flourish, and the extent of this challenge may prove overwhelming, our correspondent adds.

The Pope called for “decisive action” when he was elected in 2013, but critics say he has not done enough to hold to account bishops who allegedly covered up abuse.

PAT SAYS

The whole issue of where sexual orientation fits into paedophilia is both complex and confusion.

Some say paedophilia is a distinct orientation?

Others say homosexual paedophiles abuse boys and heterosexual paedophiles abuse girls?

Some say priests use children because of the lack of opportunity opportunity to have adult sex?

It seems there are more paedophiles in the priesthood than in civvy street?

I do not believe that paedophilia in the church is down to the gays.

It has to be more compplex than that.

The Vatican, with all its money, and to help itself should fund an international institute of paedophilia to study paedophia exhaustively and universally.

Whatever side we are on the TRUTH about paedophilia needs to be scientifically established to give us the tools to address it psychologically, anthropologically, theologically and socially.

It is a massive issue of today.

146 thoughts on “TWO CARDINALS CLAIM ABUSE IS

  1. Thank God for Vigano, Burke, Brandmuller, the 100 standing silently in Rome yesterday and the few other faithful bishops. If God gives us 12 faithful ones then we have enough.

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    1. Viganò is in hiding. Comprehensively rebutted.

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      1. He was right about Uncle Ted.

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      2. @ 11.43
        What has that got to do with anything? I think your comprehension is in your butt.
        BTW Imagine a Cardinal having to go into hiding because of Frankie and his henchmen, Says it all really.

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    2. 1:42

      I don’t think God would appreciate thanks for those two.😕

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      1. Thanks for your participation, Stephen.

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  2. Old Mother Burke lecturing us about a manly and robust clergy ?! Ha ! Who does he think he is fooling. It’s the ones who hide their real sexuality (like Maude Burke) who come out the strongest with the anti-gay stuff, all dressed up as orthodoxy. But, in reality, they are simply transferring and denying their own inclinations. And God knows what THEY get up to in private ? In public, they just like dressing up. What a nonsense !

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    1. Uncle Ted didn’t like dressing up. The gays are on the liberal wing of the Church. Eg in Armagh Frs Coyle and McCambley were very far from orthodox in their theological views. Try harder next time.

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      1. A martini is a martini whether you opt for gin or vodka. Just because McCarrick did not favour fiddle-back chasubles does not mean he didn’t off on all the accoutrements of clerical status as much as any lace queen. As for Burke and Brandmüller, they are part of the dysfunctional gay culture in denial they decry, as is the rather pathetic figure of Joseph Ratzinger. At one time, say among the Anglicans this would have been considered highly amusing with such figures as “Ena the Cruel” sometime Bishop of London and a pompous fart known as “the Madre”; today it is no laughing matter, but sad, sad, sad.

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      2. Were it that simple 2:08pm. The way it appears to me is that there are gay priests who are out, there are liberal wing gay priests who are not and therefore subjects and / or perpetrators of manipulation and abuse. Ugly and awful as this is, at least there is a psychological rationale to it. The situation in the traditional / right wing is more complex. Yes, there will be those devotedly living out their vocation and promises. There will be those blatently living a double life but there will also be those who publicly state and maybe even believe that homosexuality is not a natural attraction, like traditionalist Fr Dominic Carey, now Dom Gregory Carey OSB of Farnborough Abbey but for many years with the now suppressed SSJ In parts 38 and 39 of this link http://www.newengelpublishing.com/exploiting-traditionalist-orders-the-society-of-st-john/ Fr Carey defends his superior, Fr. Urrutigoity, who slept with young boys and young men on a regular basis. Father Carey defended the practice stating that for two men to sleep together was not an occasion of sin, since there is no natural attraction between men.
        I like others have been rather confused and disappointed with Pope Francis, but he must not allow the outcome of this gathering in Rome to be blaming it all on gay priests. If there is a purge of those “Out” and then a witch hunt of others by a victorious and strengthened right wing, this will not prevent future abuse. We need systems of check and balance that includes an end to clericalism. We also need honest and open debate on issues of human sexuality, without fear and that cannot happen in the present climate and will almost certainly never happen under a resurgent right wing. If it comes to schism, I don’t think that is to be feared. I no longer believe that Christ’s desire for unity was to force beautiful and diverse humanity into a homogeneous institution, but that they’ll know we are Christians by our love.

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    2. 1:52
      And, of course, what makes them even more frustrated is gays can now marry and their life has passed them by.

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    3. 1.52: Val7date your wild assertions with evidence and facts. Real evidence not your misguided conjectures. It is possible that Cardinal Burke and others have integrity of conscience and guve true witness to Christ. Yes, he may look overdressed but that doesn’t prevent him from bein a good servant of Christ.

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      1. “Yes, he may look overdressed but that doesn’t prevent him from bein a good servant of Christ” Really ?! He’s not interested in Christ. He’s interested in himself. And dressing up. And all those earnest young good looking seminarians in the traditional seminaries. The man gets off on it. Spare me !

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    4. 11:43 Viganò isn’t a cardinal. Get your facts right.

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      1. He should be a cardinal.

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  3. These two brave cardinals are speaking truth onto power.

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    1. Two dirty old hens.

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      1. 3.44: Are you the mother hen or the queenie bitch supremo?

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    2. Mo Brandmuller and Mo Burke are the very thing they denounce.

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  4. PS “the Madre”, needless to say, eventually joined the Ordinariate, just so you get the picture. Poor Ena remains in a “grey area”. At least theAnglicans never made the mistake of taking these men seriously.

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    1. The Grey Lady.

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  5. Pat that’s not Brandmuller it’s Bartolucci.

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    1. Mo Bartolucci died 11 November 2013 (aged 96).

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      1. The picture. It’s Bartolucci.

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  6. What a jungle the Vatican is. It puts the court of Louis XIV to shame. Everyone out to get each other. The RCC has lost the first world. Can they not just lock themselves in the Vatican, play dress up, bitch and leave the rest of us alone. I’ll stick to deep profound silence.

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    1. You are so right. The Church has lost the first world and is irrelevant, as this absurd posturing makes clear.

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  7. Uncle Ted is a gay liberal, no ifs, buts or maybe. His ecclesiology was the opposite of that of Burke and Ratzinger, who haven’t abused anybody. The inconvenient truth is that lax dogma leads to lax morals. Ted was a gay liberal, pure and simple and he treated the church as his personal playground. Even as an auxie bishop the word went out to hide the handsome sems whenever he visited a seminary.
    The queens defending McCarrick here need to ask themselves why they are still in the Catholic Church, after all the trouble people like them have caused us.

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  8. In Steve Bannon’s circle, the position of outrageous flamboyant gay saying the unspeakable, formerly occupied by Milo Yiannopoulos ( also a keen Catholic as well as married to another bloke ), has been taken with equal hypocrisy by Old Mother Burke and his suspiciously good looking altar boys.

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    1. That’s because the TLM attracts young people, both male and female and there are good lookers among them, which is in accord with the Lord’s design that men and women are attracted to one another and marry and have families. Pervy old liberal bolloxes such as Uncle Ted and actor hosting Tobin are the direct opposite. Don’t let the lie spread that these perverts were trads.

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  9. The Frederic Martel book, due out tomorrow, suggests Benedict’s trip to Cuba was the German Pope’s last straw before abdication. Black Masses, a gay archbishop of Havana and gay priests in the Vatican visiting the island for the usual.

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  10. I hear Elsie has had a row with some ex Anglican queens in Westminster. Before heading off to Roma she seems to be sick of their constant backbiting, bitching and general nastiness. The pulpit pooves now have their nails and claws sharpened for Elsie.

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    1. Elsie will not win. The Queens will triumph. He’s bitten off a bit too much there. Or was he just polishing his credentials so that he can seem all butch and manly when he’s in Rome if the agenda turns to the nasty gays in the Church ? Then he can turn around an say, look, I just put them back in their box before I came here. Oh, he’s a wily operator, that Vinny ! He covers all the bases.

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      1. Yes you got it in one @ 7.28pm. Elsie had some of the ex Vicars (now RC priests) in and tried to do her usual cool as a cucumber routine and fixed them with her stern stare. The queens say they were not even offered tea which usually means you’ve met with Elsie’s disapproval. However, Elsie will go to Rome telling everyone including Francis, that she’s dealt with the problem already by scolding the queens. Little does Elsie know that as soon as the door was shut in Ambrosedan Avenue the said Queens had gone to the former Cardinal pub for large G&T’s. There they plotted to get their revenge on Elsie before slinking back to their parishes, tails between legs, wounded but undefeated.

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    2. Huge mistake to give a free pass to ex Anglicans, who have done just what they did in the C of E which is to create their own toxic club.

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      1. When Charles Smith was acting Principal of St Stephen’s House back in the seventies, he tried to forbid ladies’ names. As soon as he left the room, one of the queens said, “Now that Caroline Shit’s got that off her chest … “ Huge mistake to admit this culture to the already toxic mix in Westminster. They have no fear of Elsie and do what they like.

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      2. I’ve refused to set foot in it since they renamed it the Windsor Castle. Mgr Mark Langham was determined to get all the cardinal related tat in the pub when it was being refurbished but they told him to jog on.

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      3. Yes the queens have brought their own special blend of toxicity to the RC Church in England and Wales from the C of E. It’s especially prevalent in Westminster. Alice Hall their Seminary is now Run by former Vicars who are now RC Priests. Elsie seems incapable of controlling the giggling gin queens, chastises them from time to time and sometimes laughs at their carry on. Even Westminster Cathedral is controlled by a former Vicar. Westminster should really be an Anglican diocese.

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    3. 2:39

      Theoretically at least, Christ is in control of EVERYthing…and he’s a Jew!😲

      Why aren’t you grumbling at this?😕

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      1. Westminster has no shortage of vocations and Allen Hall has more seminarians than Maynooth. Cardinal Vincent must be doing something right.

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  11. This is classic. A case of self-denying, self-loathing gays turning on other gays and trying to be as anti-gay as possible. It’s all transference. What a joke ! I doubt if many people will be taking these two seriously. Burke is already a laughing stock with all his dressing up and Liberace mannerisms.
    They offer no evidence for their assertions, which fly in the face of reality as known by anybody who cares to look at this matter seriously. Burke and others are only interested in creating trouble for Francis because they simply can’t stand his view of the Church and the future. They are reactionaries, bitter, twisted, nasty and warped in their view of themselves, the world, God and the Church.
    That lobby needs to be careful, for there are many skeletons in their cupboards, and if they really piss off the gays, then the gays will turn on them and out them good and proper. There is nothing as dangerous as a seriously pissed off homosexual !

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    1. Well, that is exactly what they did to KOB, they turned on the aging actress. The sooner they do the same with these two rancid flowers the better.

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  12. We appear to have a new busy troll on this blog wilfully distorting what has been said. Pace ( that’s your actual Latin ) troll at 4:40 and 5:18, nobody on this blog, whether “pervy” to use your own self-discription or otherwise has either supported McCarrick or claimed he was a trad. Nice how everyone accuses the other of being a queen – rather proves the point, don’t you think?

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    1. Was Uncle Ted gay? Yes or no?

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  13. Who is Old Mother Burke? Uncle Ted?

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    1. Goodness no, my dear. Old Mother Burke would have no truck with that monster’s depravities! She’s a very elderly lady, sadly born after her time, with old-fashioned family values of manfulness and so on. And you should see her wardrobe!

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  14. Fly on Th Wall 20th Feb 2019 — 8:24 pm

    Bishop Spin N Top was here. Tis not about orientation Tis about Abuse done by people with heads like p pots. They are spinning all this craic t avoid th issue so th are. Ground floor again peeps. Actions not s talk Actions here at home that counts hi but

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    1. Frankie Goes to Bollywood 21st Feb 2019 — 10:03 am

      8:24
      Hi Fly; you’re right!
      Actions here at home.
      ‘Thy Will Be Done’….❤️
      The new springtime has sprung and they done even know it! 🔥

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      1. Not Fonzie Again! 21st Feb 2019 — 10:13 am

        8:24; 10:03
        Delivery Tuesday !
        The muller! No sweat! 🔥
        More than meets the eyes! Separate matter enclosed!
        😎 Praise the Lord! 👍

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  15. Surely, Bp Pat, their true sexual orientation is apparent to everyone. They’re not exactly virile male specimens. I blame the faghags.

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    1. Oh No; Not Fonzi Again! 21st Feb 2019 — 11:04 am

      10:13;
      Big plans afoot
      ‘ on this Holy Mountain! ‘
      Thy Will Be Done Lord! 🔥

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  16. ‘Priests who have gone away from the truth of the Gospel’ is, according to these cardinals, the main reason for the sexual-abuse criminality in the Church. Yes! Heaven salutes these grande dames! THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH HAS NEVER TRULY FOLLOWED THE GOSPEL. All of its priests, and all of its people, have been unfaithful to the witness it proclaims.
    But another expression of gospel unfaithfulness, clericalism, has encouraged it and facilitated it.😆

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    1. Thanks very much for that Steve …. oops …. I mean Magna! How’s it hanging these day’s anyhow? Long time no see.

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      1. Ack, sure y’know what it’s like.

        See y’ down the pub later?

        For wance, YUR buyin’! 😆

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    2. Wasn’t there a 19th century vicar apostolic who wanted to bring back a gospel like simplicity to the church? He avoided ostentation in dress and tried to reduce ceremonies, if I recall correctly.

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      1. Sounds a tad URC rather than RC.

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      2. 6:09
        You may be right.
        Church history is littered with the debris (and sometimes the dead) of similarly well-intentioned folk. Savonarola, for example, 15th century Dominican friar burned at the stake for heresy. Among his ‘breaches’, calling for an end to clerical corruption and exploitation of the poor.
        Closer to our time, those forty or so bishops who met in the catacombs at Vatican II to pledge that their lives be lived closer to gospel values.

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  17. These two cardinals need to take their heads out of their asses and see the real truth. Being gay does not make you a paedophile. The real problem in their church IS clericalism which makes some priests/ bishops (I’m being generous here by saying some) feel that they are entitled to do whatever they want because they are “superior”. Paedophilia is not an orientation. It is quite simply evil abuse. This church has nothing left to offer. A bunch of men in frocks meeting this week are now going to sort the whole thing out! Aye right. This church is so predictable. Predictably a complete mess and a disgrace to Christ

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    1. @ 10.39
      You only have to read this blog for a few days to see that the problem IS homosexual clergy.
      Such a bunch of nasty, disturbed individuals.
      What are you lot going to do when you are all kicked out? – Because it’s coming. You lot just can’t see it.

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  18. I have just read the link posted by Tom Wood at 6:39, which is to a reliable source, Randy Engel, and gives an interesting though hardly surprising insight into traditionalist Catholic culture. Also unsurprising is that Dom Gregory Carey has found a home at Farnborough! So it goes on!

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    1. His name is Randy? Lol

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      1. Believe it or not but when I worked in a dole office in London we had a black claimant whose name was Randy Bishop. The staff loved calling out his name over the intercom eg “would Randy Bishop please make his way to interview room 2”.

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      2. Her name, actually.

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  19. Unfortunately there is a certain truth about gay men who are attracted to teenagers it happens all the time in the non catholic world it’s nothing to do with clerical power except that it’s later used to cover it up. It’s a side to gay life which no one will admit because it’s unpalatable for most societies , some gay men are attracted to men their own age, some to older , some to younger, all gay men know this.It is possible to be gay, to find a way to live this in a chaste way and still speak out against the destructive side of its effects.

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    1. @ 2.16
      They refuse to acknowledge it.
      Why even Stephen Fryand Peter Mandelson would deny it!

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    2. Yes, the gays call them twinks.

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      1. 2:16, 9:44, 2:05
        Guys, I hate to burst that irredescent, homophobic bubble you’re aimlessly floating around in, but all heterosexual men, if they are honest with at least themselves, would not deny finding post-pubescent teenage girls attractive.
        It’s in the genes (and I ain’t talkin’ Levis here😎).
        A study some years ago by two American sociologists on the effect female students had on their much-older male lecturers (with some having extra-marital affairs with female students) concluded with a stark warning to the wives of these men: if you don’t want your spouses to stray, make sure they aren’t around such young females since attraction to them for older men is wired into their DNA. It is nothing to be morally ashamed of; it’s just an evolutionary and biological fact.😆

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      2. Magna Carta's Mum 21st Feb 2019 — 7:57 pm

        Magna darling, why did I find a post it on your desk saying ‘Grindr username: Think Carta’? What on Earth does it mean?

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  20. Greetings Pat, I’m a contemporary of Paul Prior. Prior suffered so much in his day’s in Seminary. The sexual assaults against him by a former Dean are fact. The former Dean would shower him in gifts, hoidays and yes even cash. Michael Mullaney probably enjoyed the abuse as he was the queen in our year group. The name fanmy can actually be traced back to his seminary days, compared to his teaching in Thurles.

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    1. Prior has been an abuser as well. Just because he was abused does not warrant his abusing others.
      He caused many seminarians to suffer when he started his role as a formator in Maynooth.

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      1. If he’s a history of abuse – of any category – then you should be telling people, especially the SJs with whom he is now. Although, I am sure they will have done a modicum of due diligence before they took him in to the noviciate ?

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    2. Those present when Prior made his disturbing comment regarding anal sex, excrement and children were Brendan Kealy (now priest in the Dublin Archdiocese), Matthew Dillon (then Dublin seminarian), Anthony McGorian (then Dublin seminarian) and Joe Sheridan (then Dublin seminarian).
      Prior asked Derek O’Connell (then Cork & Ross seminarian) if he found the elderly people whom he visited in a nursing home when on pastoral work “attractive”.
      Prior inappropriately questioned seminarians about erections and wet dreams. Anthony McGorian was asked by Prior how he “brought his erections to prayer”.
      Prior acted outside his remit as an external forum formator and proactively asked prurient questions when not solicited to do so.

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      1. If any of this is true – if – then I would expect that the SJs would be having a look at Prior. Let’s hope that they are reading this blog and take prudent and appropriate action to ensure that he is suitable to be with them and to be training as an SJ. Over the last year or so there has been a great deal of chatter about Prior and his activities in Maynooth. No smoke without fire, you may think. But, if not already done, the SJs do need to listen to what is being said and engage in a conversation about it. It would be awful if in years to come when Prior is a fully fledged SJ stuff that should have been looked at earlier rather than later is unearthed. So, SJs, please don’t just discount what is being said on this site, but take it seriously and unpick it and see what is the reality. You don’t need to report back to us, but we do need to be sure that you will act responsibly in this matter. I don’t wish Prior any ill will – indeed, I wish him a fair wind – but I do feel a bit disturbed about some of the things I have been reading, and want to be sure that they are being looked at by the SJs. If there is nothing in them, or they are being inflated out of proportion, and Prior is okay, then fine let him carry on with his calling to be an SJ. But, in this day and ago of zero tolerance, I’m afraid everything has to be looked at. If stuff like this was being aired about me, I am sure that I would be called in and asked some questions, and if there was anything in them then I would be suspended pending further investigation, and that would probably see me out of the loop for a long time. Marsden is another one I would suggest needs somebody to have a look at him. There’s definitely something odd going on with him.

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    3. @9:39, Archbishop Diarmuid Martin (Dublin), Bishop Philip Boyce (former bishop of Raphoe) and Bishop John Buckley (Cork & Ross) were all informed of Prior’s scandalous conduct in Maynooth. And they did nothing about it.
      I would have no confidence in the Jesuits taking any action if the above bishops chose to do nothing.

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      1. Talking to Phillip Boyce you may as well tell the cat for all the good it will do.

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    4. Pryer was never abused by any Dean in Maynooth. You’re a LIAR at 3:41am!

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      1. I agree. The middle dean was as camp as Christmas and very sentimental about his mother but he didn’t abuse anyone. The only abuser on the staff was Ledwith.

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  21. Michael Mullaney on both the Salamanca and Prague trip was just one big gossip month. Mullaney raised his hatred of Mark Mohan, Damien Lynch and David Marsden. Mullaney is just like a teenager girl once he consums alcohol. why is Mullaney jealous of Mark Mohan.

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  22. Pat is there a safe location where I can make a disclosure of my experience of abuse in Maynooth Seminary.

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    1. 5 20: Can I suggest that you go to the relevant civil authorities first. Then you should make your disclosure to the relevant Church authorities. I just feel that you will prolong your pain by sharing information on this blog. By all means speak with Pat but I hope you will do what I suggest. In light of what’s happening in the Vatican these days I think any church person may listen and believe you and more appropriately respond with compassion and justice to you. I wish you well.

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      1. I would also suggest that route. There is nothing wrong with Pat’s support, *but* the hierarchy are determined to ignore him and tar him by any means necessary. If there are crimes involved the gardai will tell you whether they can proceed with it. *But* if you press a crime they will almost certainly tell you who you can and can’t talk to about it.
        Talking to Pat – a wise priestly ear for you but which the hierarchy will ignore.
        Talking to the constabulary – more chance of getting redress for any crime which the hierarchy can’t ignore but you won’t be able to talk to just anyone about it.

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      2. I will put him in touch with the special Gardai or PSNI units IF thats what he wants.

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    2. Heard all this before. Nothing ever came of it.

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      1. It’s old news. A sem was kicked out of Gaynooth by Mullaney. Sems have no rights, no rights at all. There is nothing that can be done by P Buckley or the police as no crime was committed. I suggest that all ex-sems make a GDPR request for a copy of their seminary file. Pat should do likwise to Clonliffe and D&C for his personnel records.

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  23. Professor of history, Roberto De Mattei, states that Martel’s book has been deliberately timed to be issued at the start of the abuse summit in Rome today so as to silence any bishop or cardinal from speaking out against homosexuality in the priesthood for fear of being labelled a “homophobe” or “repressed homosexual”:

    Be strong good and holy bishops!

    Have no fear of the slander and calumny that they will blacken you with for defending God’s holy and just laws.

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    1. @ 7.53
      Amen.

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    2. “Between 2003 and 2011 de Mattei was the Vice-President of the National Research Council of Italy.[1] In that role, he has been highly criticized for his scientific ideas, in particular for having organized and funded a meeting supporting antievolutionism. This fact led part[who?] of the Italian scientific community to a request for his resignation.[3][4] The controversy upsurged again after some statements by de Mattei, such as that the tsunami in 2011 in Japan was a divine punishment. Furthermore, he claimed the “contagion of homosexuality” had been responsible for the fall of the Roman Empire.[5]”

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    3. Would you like to enjoy a Campari Spritz in Piazza del Puopolo with Professor De Mattei ? He seems like a bundle of fun ! Not !
      But, let me offer a little deconstruction of De Mattei’s thesis, which is that the homosexualisation of the clergy and the Church following the changes of Vatican II has led to the abuse crisis. In other words, he mouths the current untruth and scapegoating that is alive and kicking, namely that there is a direct correlation, cause and effect, between gay clergy and abuse.
      What De Mattei and his ilk tend to forget is that clergy abuse was alive and kicking before Vatican II during a period, presumably, when the Church was a bastion of strong faith and morals and the gays had not yet taken over the Church. But, we know from the records, that there was a great deal of abuse taking place during that time, only secretly and covered up by the Church, and it was being committed by clergy who were not necessarily homosexual but rather imbued with the faith and morals of the times. So, there is a fundamental flaw in De Mattei’s and his ilk’s thesis, conveniently so for them in order for them to pursue their homophobic agenda and to pin the blame for everything on the gays. Shameful !
      It’s about hierarchy, clericalism, power, authority, entitlement, privilege and arrogance, stupid !

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    4. 7:53
      You, like Mattei, are talking arrant nonsense. On the contrary, Martel’s book, fast becoming a cause célèbre, would naturally provide impetus (and, in a certain public consciousness, even moral imperative) for that brood of unholy bishops to do precisely that: speak out against homosexuality, if not in the priesthood, then in the Vatican.
      Mattei is a maverick historian, and moral fatalist. I hesitate to call him an historian, since he lacks the required academic objectivity for professional recognition and acceptance. Mattei is more a moral ideologue, and this severely distorts his research. For example, he blames homosexuality for the fall of the Roman Empire, while ignoring the inconvenient historical fact that the agent of Rome’s destruction and conquest was not moral probity or its lack, but invasion by Germanic tribes. This, and the other inconvenient historical fact, that Rome’s legions were too thinly stretched over a large swathe of imperial territory.
      This isn’t the only reason for doubting Mattei’s academic objectivity; there is an even worse one. In 2011, he described the tsunami in Japan that year as a divine punishment.😕
      The man is a crackpot.

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  24. Vinny, being interviewed on the BBC last night, began his comments by saying that sexual abuse was not something confined to the Church but was a big problem in all societies, at all levels. In other words, more transference, more watering down of the truth, more effort to move the spotlight off the Church, more effort to minimise the evil that has happened. Rather than just coming out and saying that this is terrible, this is bad, this is a reality of our Church, this is something that we own up to. Watch that space over the next days, and you will see everybody from the Pope and Vinny on down making every effort to minimise and transfer the evil over which they have presided as leaders in the Church. And they will be looking for scapegoats, and prime targets in their sights will be The Devil and Those Nasty Gays. Indeed, anybody that they can point a finger at in order to take the blame off themselves.

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    1. There is a huge difference between someone objectively stating that sexual abuse is somehow part of life in different forms and being someone who has a position of responsibility and oversight for a particularly group of people where the problem has been compounded by lies and lack of accountability. I’m glad that this blog exists because it is the only place where the sexual harassment and abuse of seminarians and priests is actually discussed, nothing has happened following Fr Marsden’s letter about Oscott College and anything that he had knowledge would only be the tip of the iceberg, the ideal candidate for the priesthood today seems to be a gay man who’s quite happy to turn a blind eye to all of the inconsistencies around chastity they are going to meet. This isn’t child abuse but it’s corrosive.

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    2. Correct. The rest of society is on a learning curve for example with regard to women dnd homosexuals. The Church isn’t do remains trapped in a culture of pretence, denial and scapegoating.

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  25. Marsden was a single focus, single issue, obsessive who inappropriately and abusively delved in to people’s private and psychosexual lives, to satisfy his purient and warped needs. And when he got found out, he turned all nasty and started pointing the finger. He was sacked twice by two seminaries. Would you ever let this man near seminarians ever again ? The problem was not with the seminaries or the seminarians, but with Marsden himself. He probably will find a job with one of the homophobic, traditional, so called orthodox, outfits. They are welcome to him. But, Marsden is not the kind of person we need to be involved in the formation of the next generation of priests. He is dangerous.

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    1. Fr Marsden has his failings but he has not reported anything that’s untrue in fact because of his reputation he can only have been privy to a small amount, leave him out of the equation if you had a son would you be happy for him to enter Oscott for their ‘ formation’ ? Would a priest in England today say to their Bishop I’d really like to teach in a seminary and help with the training of the next generation of priests ?

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  26. Fr Marsden tried to disrupt meetings of the MGA, which were held in Ledwith House of all places, and Mullaney criticised him rather than the members of the MGA.

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    1. Is it still called Ledwith House? Makes no difference as his spirit continues to hover over that place? As a matter of interest how does one bring erections to prayer? Never heard of that one. Must be a Maynooth thing.

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      1. James Martin LGBTSJ 21st Feb 2019 — 1:29 pm

        Yes, still called Ledwith House.

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      2. What is the MGA?

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  27. The Cardinal Archbishop of Bombay, who is one of the four organisers of Frank’s talking shop, is being investigated by the Indian police for covering up the usual. It involves a gay priest, inevitably. You couldn’t make it up.

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  28. Even Fr Hunwicke has a post in his own inimitable style about Mr McCarrick:
    http://liturgicalnotes.blogspot.com/2019/02/long-live-uncle-ted-mccarrick.html
    Note for the hard of thinking: it is ironic!

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  29. Who is the Madre?

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    1. Used to hold court at St Gabriel’s Warwick Square, but gagged at the thought of a woman in the sanctuary, so moved to Ipswich, got ordained in the Ordinariate, and died. So what was the point of all that? A pal of Father Hunwicke. Apologies to our Irish readers for this arcane Anglican stuff. It is another world fast going out of existence.

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      1. They’ve been replaced by close cropped butch clamjousters in sensible shoes.

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      2. Oh how embarrassing, I just tried to pronounce clamjousters as if it were some arcane French word, till I realized what it meant.

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  30. I wonder if Pauline took her famous underwear collection to the SJs?

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    1. Please ask Stephen Wilson.

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  31. @12:26 – It is all true about Prior. That is why he did not follow through with his solicitor’s letter issued against this blog.

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    1. Prior is the Poundland version of Niall Ahern. PP was in the car when Nellie Dean had the awful crash in which the Clogher deacon Paul Woods died.

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      1. @1:56 It was Ciaran Woods who was killed and Paul Prior was NOT in the car. You talking out of your arse aren’t you?

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      2. 1.56: Your comment is disgraceful. That you would mention the name of someone who was killed in so flippant a way is just very reprehensible. How low do you stoop? Have you any concern for the family of Ciaran Woods? As for the later comment at 2.51, utterly disgusting. Shame on both of you. Pat, why facilitate such crass insensitivity?

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  32. Magna Carta is very quiet since the link to Deacon Stephen Douds was revealed yesterday.

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    1. 1.25: Don’t encourage Magna. He needs to rest his mind every couple of days after his outbursts of rage. These raging, viloent outbursts burn the brains out of him…thus his need to hibernate occasionally.

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      1. 😆

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  33. Here’s the Guardian’s review of the new Martel book. The reviewer has his own agenda but there’s some shocking stuff about Rome’s migrant sex workers.
    https://www.theguardian.com/books/2019/feb/21/in-the-closet-of-the-vatican-by-frederic-martel-review

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    1. Andrew Brown’s opening anecdote has a chilling ring of total authenticity. And as for a ring of homosexual clergy around Archbishop Georg Gänswein … department of no surprises! How stupid are we supposed to be?

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  34. The MGA is the Maynooth Grindrs Association. Fr Marsden put up a fight to stop it getting capitation funding from the Students’ Union but he got no support.

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  35. So true, Joe at 1:42! One might almost miss the Madre and vicars called Dolly Diamond – not to be confused with Dolly Foster! – and all the rest of those Staggers Bags. RIP

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    1. The wives of Permanent Secretaries become vicars now. Basically counsellors in a cassock and it gets them out of the house and they can smile a lot on Sunday mornings.

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  36. Can someone confirm for me if there are any fallen trees in Moneymore? Brendan has been VERY VERY inactive on the tree falling front on Twitter.

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    1. Brendan Marshall is very active on the Marriage equality frontier. Maybe Brendan wants to marry Sean Hickey. Michal Mullaney can do the wedding or maybe kevin Connolly.

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  37. At least some of the gays add a bit of variety and colour to life, an element of gaiety. Maurice of Birmingham was a prime example but I have no doubt he was scrupulously celibate. Even so he couldn’t take his eyes off my crrtsin bits of me whenever I appeared in front if him. He could get away with it sometimes because of his wonky fish eye. But I knew what’s he was looking at ! He was a kind man really and I think holy in his way. He did struggle in the early days of the abuse crisis and had to deal with some horrible cases and priests. And it looks as though things are still happening and priests disappearing / suspended in that diocese. Anybody know what has happened to the Canon from Longton Staffs who has suddenly become invisible after a call from Archbishop’s House ? The usual ? Or the Provost from the Oxford Oratory who has done a similar disappearing trick. Both hardworking priests and good at what they do. But I suspect the worst I’m afraid. Which is sad. I think there will be a lot of clergy rather anxiously waiting for a call from HQ about a little indiscretion of years ago. This is the age of zero tolerance and pretty much anything is sufficient cause for being sidelined. Are we better off for that ? Of course we are !!! Mmmmm???

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    1. And don’t forget the great scandal at the Birmingham Oratory some years ago now. I expect it was “the usual.”

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      1. Oh, that was a middle aged priest (who looked and acted 40 years older than he really was, like all Oratorians – it’s a charism they have !) who took to a young man, although we were assured it was a platonic and chaste relationship. It was too close for comfort to Benedict XVI’s visit to England and the Oratory on account of Cardinal Newman, so there was a bit clear out, rigorously and brutally administered. No way were the Cong. Orats. going to jeopardise their Beatification of Newman. God knows what they will get up to now he’s going to be canonised ! I wonder is the little local difficulty down in Oxford a clearing out of problems that could get in the way of good optics when the Newman canonisation takes place ?

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    2. That’s a kind hearted memory of Maurice. But where are the gays of yesteryear? Many of them had style and were often good for a laugh. But now! More troubling is the sudden disappearance of Daniel Seward from the Oxford Oratory with no explanation. Old Mother Burke has been wined and dined there so will feel right let down if “the plague” as she charmingly puts it has hit Oxford. I dare say Bishop Byrne knows all about it. The so called scandal at Brum Oratory some years back was high farce: chaste friendships, my Aunt Fanny.

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      1. As a parishioner of St Catherine of Siena in Birmingham I can assure you that there has never been a gay priest in this diocese. And certainly none has brought charges against a blackmailer.
        Actually I do seriously have fond memories of Archbishop Maurice. How could a man like him deal with career duplicity and psychopathy?

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      2. I think the B’ham Oratory business of some years ago was definitely chaste ! Have you ever seen the priest in question. Lovely chap, but definitely not hot and desirable. I have no doubt it was lust at a distance and without touching. No genitals or loins involved.

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      3. 7:51 pm… I think you know as well as I do that you had a very entertaining ex-Anglican Queen at St Catherine’s who made it his business to be chaplain to the emerging Gay Village in Birmingham, just over the road from where he lived. I think things from the past caught up with him in the end and he was furloughed, and then died. I forget his name. Since then the incumbents have been safe, but so dull. Maurice had welcomed him, but had to suspend him.

        There is a story of Mgr Leonard the VG recounting to Maurice the peccadillos of some priest one day, and Maurice was heard to cry out, “But, Monsignor, that’s mortal sin”. Poor Maurice, I think he was cruelly initiated in to the harsh realities of life when he moved from the genteel surroundings of Cambridge to becoming Archbishop of Birmingham. It must have been a bit of a shock. Maurice was a kind and gentle men, funny, but a bit naive. Holy too. I do have fond and warm memories of him.

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    3. Who was the kind Irish Canon Lawyer during Maurice’s time. Very gentle man.

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  38. Magna, 4.39: 🎃🦁🐱🐵🐵😁😁😁Welcome to the light of day!! But stay restrained.

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  39. Ciaran Woods the keen photographer and favourite of Dr Ahern was one of the most toxic seminarians of that generation and I’m glad he never became a priest.

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    1. What an utterly crass, vile and vindictive comment to rejoice in the death of another human being. This post must rank as the worst since the blog began.

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    2. Ciaran had lost both parents at an early age. I hope his sister Deirdre or his brother Peter never access this blog.

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  40. So there are two genders, male and female, the majority are heterosexual, there is a minority who are exclusively attracted to the same sex, there’s another minority who could be grouped as bisexual. Until the late twentieth century the Catholic Church saw homosexual acts as acts against nature, a form of vice based on lust or sexual frustration within same sex environments, the writings of St Paul gave a definite moral view, in the 1970s the homosexual individual or person was introduced into teaching documents it’s not clear if this sexuality is within the person from birth or from influences, the homosexual is expected to live their whole life in chastity not just the discipline of celibacy , this would surely require heroic grace and there is no explanation of why this situation exists is it a consequence of original sin who knows? Peadophila is also not explained it can be both heterosexual and homosexual but there seems to be a great fear of discussing if it’s a sexuality to the individual it wouldn’t feel as if it’s a deliberate choice again is it the consequence of circumstances and influences it’s not clear?

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  41. Quite so. They love it, and I cannot stand their smug middle class pretentiousness. A late London priest once told he was cornered by one at some ecumenical do, and she prattled about how she had been able to incorporate a clerical collar into her evening gown! It was more fun with the Madre presiding.

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    1. 7:00 was meant to be reply to 6:41 on annoying lady vicars – give the queens a break!

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  42. I fear you are being too subtle at 7:51, as few readers of this blog are likely to know that St Catherine of Siena in dear old Brum regularly holds Masses for Quest and LGBT families. That is entirely to be commended, as is Longley for permitting them. I don’t know how well attended they are, however, as I get the impression that Quest celebrations are usually in single figures. You are likely to get far more queens down the road at the Oratory – certainly in the sanctuary! Seriously, it would be good to know how Catholic LGBT groups operate in different dioceses – I mean people who are relaxed and honest about their sexuality rather than concealing it under clouds of lace and incense. Elsie was once reasonably supportive until she decided they were a nuisance and kicked them out.

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  43. I suppose Elsie flew to Rome Business Class as usual?

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    1. BA upgrades Elsie each time. Free unlimited champers and Elsie is also partial to a nice China tea cup and saucer on-board.

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  44. Bp Pat, it’s time for a different subject. A good Maynooth scandal never fails.

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    1. Carryduff Ciaran 22nd Feb 2019 — 12:24 am

      I certainly agree the need for something different from this continual focus on who is/isn’t gay and constant snide criticism from what seems like an inner circle of self obsessed clergy.
      Their poverty of thought and comment well highlights the depths to which the RC church institution has plummeted.

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  45. St Catherine’s in Birmingham is close to the main theatres and you could always tell if the great Danny La Rue was at the Hippodrome as he had his own key and would place all of his flowers in front of the statue of the Madonna, it’s interesting that he wanted to be a priest from childhood into his teens but it was his mother who put him off , he was a daily server at St Pats Soho

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    1. What happened to Father Shirley, Bp Pat?

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  46. Good to read some affectionate memories of Maurice Couve de Murville. RIP. He wasn‘t a shit like many bishops, and had a tough time leaving with his reputation in tatters. He didn’t know how to play the field unlike Basil who treated him badly and incredibly was treated as if he were a saint; now he, I think, was a shit.

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    1. Basil was a first class shit and he lost his faith at the end.

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      1. I once had a very arrogant letter from him. He was not the man he pretended to be.

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