MIRACLES?

Blessed John Henry Newman is seen in a portrait provided by the Catholic Church in England and Wales. Catholic bishops in England hope for his canonization in 2019 after Vatican theologians conclude that the inexplicable healing of a U.S. woman with life-threatening complications in pregnancy was a miracle attributable to him.

Illinois doctor: Newman miracle depositions were ‘spiritual experiences’

JOYCE DURIGA

Catholic Herald 19. 2. 2019

CHICAGO — When the Vatican announced Feb. 15 that Pope Francis had signed a decree recognizing a miracle attributed to the intercession of Blessed John Henry Newman, clearing the way for his canonization, there was rejoicing in Chicago.
The proposed miracle that God worked through the intercession of Newman in 2013 involved a local mother who faced life-threatening complications during her pregnancy but suddenly recovered when she prayed to the English cardinal for help.
The woman, who declined to comment at this time but said she will share her story with the Chicago Catholic, archdiocesan newspaper, at a later date, lives in the Diocese of Joliet, but, given the resources available in the Archdiocese of Chicago, her case was transferred to the tribunal here for investigation.
Dr. Gerald Casey, the lead medical expert in the local process, said he has been forever changed by the experience.
“It was the most enriching experience of my spiritual life,” said Casey, who lives in Wilmette and attends Sts. Faith, Hope and Charity Parish in Winnetka.
Church law has a process, much like a trial, that it follows when investigating miracles. The woman, her husband, her physician and her spiritual director all were interviewed, or deposed, during the process.
“The true spiritual experience was in the stages of the depositions. I literally cried when we were deposing her. It struck to my very heart, because I could feel a presence that I had never felt before in my life,” Casey said. “It was one thing to read the materials, but it was quite another thing to hear her recitation of what had occurred, not just during that time but in the prior pregnancies and her miscarriages.”
The stay-at-home mother’s pregnancy was considered high risk because she was over 40 and had suffered previous miscarriages. As a result, her doctor ordered blood tests on the baby early on and monitored the pregnancy closely.
She started to bleed during the pregnancy and was diagnosed in spring 2013 with a subchorionic hematoma, a blood clot in the fetal membrane. The only thing doctors can do for that condition is prescribe bed rest. If the blood clot ruptures, it can result in a spontaneous miscarriage.
Bed rest for a mom with three small children is not so easy, Casey said.
“Then the morning that the event occurred, she had gone downstairs, had made her children breakfast and started to bleed more,” he said, reading from notes he took during the mother’s deposition.
She started to hemorrhage and locked herself in the bathroom. She felt she was losing her baby. At that moment she called out, “Cardinal Newman, please stop the bleeding!”
“The bleeding immediately stopped. Immediately,” Casey said.
Afterward, the woman climbed into bed and called her doctor. He told her to come in that afternoon to see him.
“She came in the afternoon and fetal heart tones were normal and she went home. She was able to continue all normal activities for the entire rest of her pregnancy,” Casey said.
She has since gone on to have two more children through normal pregnancies. By all indications, she should have lost the baby.
As part of the process, Casey had two maternal fetal specialists also review the medical records and depositions.
“None of us had ever heard of anything like this occurring,” Casey said.
At no point were Casey or the other doctors asked if a miracle occurred. They only had to answer if there was any known medical explanation for what happened.
Oblate Father William Woestman serves as the promoter of justice in the archdiocese’s tribunal and participated in the canonical investigation of the miracle. He is also author of “Canonization: Theology, History, Process.”
“You could see it was painful for her to talk about what she went through,” Woestman said of the woman. “She was a very impressive person.”
After the local process for the miracle concluded, it was sent to Rome for another series of investigations, he explained. That outcome was revealed Feb. 13.
Saints and miracles are still relevant today, Woestman said, adding that he often thinks of the saints who prayed in Holy Name Cathedral, like Sts. John Paul II, Teresa of Kolkata and Mother Cabrini. He hopes one day Father Augustus Tolton will be added to that list.
“We all want saints we knew,” he said. “We want saints that walked on the same sidewalks we walk on or who breathed the same air we do.”

PAT SAYS

Do I believe in miracles?

Yes I do.

And I dont like it when theologians and biblical scholars try and explain away the Gospel miracles.

I have been present when miracles of healing happened to very sick people.

I believe that only God can work miracles.

But he sometimes works them when people on earth or people in heaven interceed and ask him too.

Cardinal Newman was undoubtedly a holy man and a man of great wisdom.

He was also homosexual by nature and we have no evidence that he ever acted out.

I think it was a disgrace that the church removed him from the grave he shared with the man he loved.

120 thoughts on “MIRACLES?

  1. Who was the man that you allege he loved?

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    1. Another Oratorian at the Birmingham Oratory – Ambrose St John. They were buried together in the same grave. Newman was in desperate grief when his friend Ambrose died.

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      1. Imagine a priest asking to be buried in the same grave as his bf? You wouldn’t get away with that now.

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      2. Newman and Ambrose love each other deeply. I have not seen any evidence to say it was sexual.

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  2. The church never removed him!

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    1. But ‘the Church’ tried, didn’t it? That’s the point.
      I suppose finding sod-all-worth-salvaging in Newman’s and St John’s post-mortem love nest (and paying loads a money to gawp at) was Newman’s prescient Agincourt gesture to a corrupt the 21st century church.😕
      Well done, John Henry.😆

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  3. He wasn’t removed because when the grave was opened no body was found only a couple of tassels!

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    1. Very few, if any, first class relics, which would have been worth a bit to the Oratory ! Never mind they will surely find other ways of monetarizing their new Saint.

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      1. They’ve given away all the 2nd class relics. No money changed hands.

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    2. Having had a gay lover is no barrier to canonisation. St Paul VI is a prime example.

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    3. A couple of tassels? Jesus, it’s a miracle! Had he been assumed?

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  4. The Oratorians are very much in the news these days: Robert Byrne sent up to Newcastle (lucky people of the North !), Newman well on way to sainthood now, the Oxford Oratory Provost doing a disappearing trick (presumably for the obvious), and if you dig any deeper you will find all sort of quaint oddities and eccentricities in the Oratories dotted around the country. You occasionally see a young Oratorian (looking 40 years older than he really is, bent, shuffling) walking along the Hagley Road all dressed up like something from the 1600s Rome. Some out our ethnic country cousins all geared out don’t look any odder than does an Oratorian in full regalia. Strange lot.

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    1. Newman himself was invariably mistaken for an old woman whenever he ventured out in later years.

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  5. Strange lot indeed. Newman should not become a Saint. He was deeply anti Irish, something Cardinal Manning challenged him about. Looking at the nasty tone of the letters between Newman and Manning is just one of the reasons this man should not become a Saint. The Oratorians are snobby eccentric English gentlemen and most odd in appearance.

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  6. MournemanMichael 22nd Feb 2019 — 9:32 am

    There is much to the human body and psyche we do not understand, and may never. But projecting inexplicable events onto “saints”? It makes no sense other than to acknowledge it as just another of humankind’s self generated aspirations for “something” on which to hang a belief greater than the inevitability of our own mortality.
    And of course the RC church finds such issues convenient through which to maintain its “credibility”.
    MMM

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  7. Pat, WHY is Brendan referring to the 6 counties as Northern Ireland and United Kingdom.

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    1. Because Ulster is British. No surrender.

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  8. Omagh social worker and ex-priest Michael Hand was a great one for debunking Gospel miracles. He often scandalised pupils with his lack of belief when he was the dean of St Michael’s College in Enniskillen.
    One day, after the early morning boarders Mass I tackled him over his claim that the loaves and the fishes was made up. I asked him if he didn’t believe in that how he believe in the Resurrection, which is a bigger test of faith.
    He told me to be not so cheeky.

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    1. Omagh’s full of ex-priests for some reason.

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      1. Old Dom Casey had a 50 punt wager (big money then) with Michael Hand that Hand would not be ordained. The Dom lost the bet and paid out. Fr Hand got the 50 punt note framed and put it on the wall in his room in Enniskillen.

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    2. The loaves and fishes is a story about how we can achieve more by pooling our resources. Jesus was the first social democrat.

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      1. That’s Tabletista shite.

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      2. @ 1.56
        No it’s not!!
        You think God had to come to earth to teach us that?!! People have been hunting and gathering in packs since time immemorial.
        More ’70’s revisionism.

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  9. God be with the simpler days when the blog’s chief focus was Maynooth scandals and the knobs and knockers of Lisbreen.

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    1. High time the rogues’ gallery was updated.

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  10. Miracles are mysterious, but also ways of seeing – or not seeing. Remember Jesus himself performed many miracles which some recognized and others didn’t; in some places he was unable to perform any owing to their lack of faith. Therefore I find the Church’s claim to be so precise questionable. I am more concerned by the industry now surrounding saints and relics, in which the Oratorians play no small part. It attempts to place a flag in the sand as if to say this territory is non-negotiable. Consider for example the haste to canonize the legacy of JPII and Mother Teresa. The cult of Newman as a saint is essentially about reclaiming him from anticipating Vatican II: he is now emasculated in a bejeweled shrine tended by the Vestal Virgins of the Oratory. A poster late yesterday complained about the focus on gays in this blog. Yet, I am afraid that is what the culture war currently raging in the Church is all about. In the rest of the developed world, it is simply no longer an issue. Until we get some honesty about human sexuality, the preaching of the Gospel is going to continue to be horribly compromised with the disastrous consequences now plain for the whole world to see. Let’s keep focused on the English Oratories – again which are hardly removed from “the gay issue” – and let’s see how Newman’s canonization is played out AND how it relates to reality. I wish no ill to the Provost of the Oxford Oratory who has just mysteriously disappeared, and have heard only good things about him. However, if he is compromised – and let’s face it, nobody is thinking he might have eloped with the parlour maid – then, I am very much afraid, it just goes to show, doesn’t it? We either face reality and deal with the fact of an almost entirely gay clergy, most of whom are in public denial, whereas some are dangerously repressed and others screaming queens of the Anglican type, or we go on with more of the same. Anyone else prefer to vote for honesty and integrity?

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    1. This is a brilliant comment.

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      1. Yes I agree — the effort to redraw JHN’s portrait as a manly man by chaps who are anything but has been going on for decades with no success. Latest is a crazy piece in Catholic Herald, assuring the faithful that JHN longed for a motherly or sisterly presence to care for him, so he cannot have been plagued by “illicit desires.”

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    2. @ 11.15
      I vote to kick the whole sodomizing lot of yes out. No decent young man could enter the present cesspit of seminaries or the cesspit of priesthood under these sodomist bishops.
      I’d rather have 3 holy orthodox Bishops giving Catholics guidance than the whole steaming pile of shits leading everyone astray which we are lumbered with at present.
      3 holy Bishops teaching orthodoxy via the web and to hell with the rest of yez useless shire of shits. Sodomize all yes want – but don’t claim to be Catholic priests.

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      1. It sounds like you are in denial and that you would need much more than three orthodox bishops.

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  11. Pat, the only miracle would be to find a well-adjusted heterosexual oratorian. Their numbers mostly comprise joyless queens whose only past time is to dress up in metres of lace and play liturgy. They translate their self-loathing into an imperious, sneering superiority and look down on the people (especially us women, who are not to be looked in the eyes) whom they have ceremoniously ‘locked out’ of the sanctuary with their ornate altar rails – about the only form of barrier method they would approve of!

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    1. There are plenty of other churches in Oxford if you don’t like the Oratory. That parish had been run into the ground by the SJs before Maurice invited the COs to take it over. They have done an excellent job and they attract many young people from the university.

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      1. I hadn’t realised there are at least two ‘types’ of Oratory. Or styles, or traditions perhaps. The reason the Brompton Oratory feels subtly different to Birmingham and hence Oxford is it is based I think on the traditions of the Naples Oratory instead of Rome. They’re still the same basics and the difference genuinely is subtle but after Newman and Faber went their different ways so did their oratories.
        I have been told in the past that Oratorians outside of England don’t have this antiquarian approach and would be interested to know if that’s true.

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      2. The London Oratory is in a class of its own when it comes to supercilious queerdom. Oxford is probably a pleasanter community, which wouldn’t be difficult, and the Oratorians have certainly revived the parish. However, the fact that it attracts plenty of students is not necessarily an occasion for rejoicing. What has happened to the open minded, generous and intellectually stimulating atmosphere of the Chaplaincy in the days of Hollis, Drumm and Strange? I suspect numbers of identified Catholic students have shrunk alarmingly, and so inevitably those who remain are attracted to bastions of conservatism such as the Oratory and now also Blackfriars. Compared to the university as a whole, these are now fringe activities.

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    2. This made me laugh out loud,

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      1. What made you lol?

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      2. If there is one thing they share in common, it would most certainly be the ‘antiquarian approach’ as you so delicately put it.

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      3. The antique disposition.

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      4. Quite right. These stuffy English Catholic institutions with their snobbish little traditions. Downside used to have airs and graces and fancied itself as “the Athens of English Catholicism”. Well, it for sure isn’t that today! Quomodo sedet civitas.

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      5. Hollis, Drumm and Strange were heretics. If you mean Walter who was rector of the Beda? He used to hear confessions in Westminster Cathedral and he never said a word beyond asking you to say an act of contrition and then saying the absolution.

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    3. “Us women”? You are so obviously a man, dear.

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      1. What made me LOL was the difficulty finding a well-adjusted, heterosexual Oratorian.

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      2. I can’t imagine a Dublin Oratory opening. Free State priests are too rough & ready and too Low Church for all that. Might work in Belfast though.

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      3. Dont forget Thr Oratory in Larne founded in 1986 on the Philip Neri inspiration. We have a relic of P Neri here.

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      4. Magna Carta's Mum 22nd Feb 2019 — 4:04 pm

        Magna darling, do you remember our trip to Oxford, meeting Mgr Knox at the chaplaincy?

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    4. Mommie Dearest, have you just awakened from your afternoon nap? It was all a dream, your and my visiting darling Ronnie in Oxford, since I am much too young to have met him in his earthly flesh.
      I do recall, though dearest, your telling me that he made a public nuisance of himself back in the ‘roaring twenties’, when he sent poor Londoners all of a dither with his radio prank that social revolution was raging and rampaging in the nation’s capiral. That Orson Welles fellow did just as dastardly a decade later by sending Americans neurotic with alarm through his invasion-from-Mars broadcast.
      King George and Queen Mary never forgave Ronnie for his adolescent jape. I suppose this would account for his never appearing on any honours list.😕

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  12. Whatever the atheist MMM says should be taken with the proverbial piece of salt. He minimised and reduces all bief systems to his empirically closed mind where there’s no room for anything religious. He serks to rubnish everything. There are many healings and cures which medical science find baffling and amazing but which they cannot medically explain. I believe in the communion of saints and can attest to things happening in my life beyond medical intervention or explanation. For people of faith, God works in wonderfully unexpected ways. MMM, you’ll never change that despite your cynical, empty atheism.

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    1. MMM should stick to subjects he knows best: walking in the Mournes; social work; reminiscing about being a sem in the 1940s; Guinness; Power’s whiskey.

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      1. 1.14: I agree. These past few days that rabidly anti everything religious MMM spouts nonsense. He cries argument ad hominem when criticised. Why should a faith person place any trust in a cynical, dismissive, smug bar stool warrior? I don’t need his ageing musings…..

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      2. MMM at 1.14: Go out to your garden to clear your clogged up brain. You’re becoming increasingly boring, nasty and shitty! Fresh Mourne Mountain air shod clear your blockages….

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    2. MournemanMichael 22nd Feb 2019 — 3:18 pm

      You guys: Anons@ 12.23, 1.14, 1.42 & 2.00, are well entitled to your belief. More power to you. Just a pity you all join in a chorus of personalised comments rather than offer some sensible contrary argument. Maybe it’s because you haven’t any?
      MMM

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      1. 3.18: MMM, when you learn to stop your shitting your condescending crap upon us, you’ll get respect. As for your supposed enliggtened arguments – which ones worth responding to??Stay on the bar stool and preach your heresy to your merry alcohos!! 🐮😎🙂😎😎🤣🤣🤣….

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    3. I think St Philip Neri would approve of the Larne Oratory. St P had a great sense of humour and he had the smell of the sheep about him as he sought out Rome’s poor.

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      1. At the Larne Oratory every priest is financially self supporting. They are teachers, addiction abuse counsellors and social workers.

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      2. Well, he’d be pissing himself with laughter at the English Oratories and their “chaste friendships”.

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    4. 12:23
      If MMM faithfully follows his ‘Golden Rule’ (Treat others as you would have them treat you.). then he will know so much more about ‘religion’ than most posting here. Because that rule coincides precisely with the second of two commandments into which Jesus reduced the entire Mosaic Law.
      You don’t know what I mean, do you?😕

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  13. I thought this article was a joke at first, purely because the main rejoicing will be in Birmingham not Chicago.

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  14. Niall Ahern, the middle dean of Maynooth in the 1980s was mentioned a few times yesterday. I have to say that he was kindness itself when I had a family bereavement. He drove hundred of miles from Maynooth to our house to be with us and to celebrate Mass in the house.
    It’s also important to say that no staff members abused seminarians in my time. Most of the priest lecturers were very distant from students. Any I dealt with (eg Corbett, Neary, Duhig, Cremin, Leighton) were good, holy men. Even Ledwith didn’t abuse sems though he had a foolish relationship with a Mexican sem, Jaime, who appeared suddenly in I Div.

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    1. Cadoc Leighton O.Praem has lost a lot of weight compared with his Maynooth student days. He is wasted being a PP in Portsmouth diocese and he should be back teaching in Maynooth where he was a member of the Modern History department. I wonder if he still takes snuff?

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    2. Some very crass and mischievous creatures indeed on here in recent days. No Maynooth dean in the 80’s certainly sexually abused any student. Fanny and Polly The Pryer were NOT abused as sems. Niall Ahern was strict but fair and he was immensely kind to many students who left. Fr Duhig was a very decent priest. Clancy mind you was a bit of a buffoon but, all in all, the profs were distant men who didn’t get involved much with sems outside of classes and seminars.

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      1. I agree 100%. The Maynooth priests were good men. Niall Ahern was always very generous in providing a good reference to departing seminarians and that was often vital in setting them up in their lay careers. He knew it and that’s why he did it. Looking back I think the Maynooth priests were a good model of priesthood in their different ways. I’m not sure that their childhood dream of priesthood was lecturing in Maynooth.

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      2. Fr Frank Duhig was indeed very fair as the Junior Dean and everybody seemed to like him. Fr Niall Ahern was fair and he told you directly what he thought about you. I left before Senior House so didn’t meet Tom Clancy much but when I did he was kind and friendly.
        As others have observed, the Maynooth priest lecturers were very distant and they wouldn’t acknowledge seminarians when they met in the cloisters. You would find them praying in the college oratories and some became spiritual directors to students.
        But none of them set out to do harm and none of them, not one, ever abused a seminarian.

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  15. There was an article in the Evening Standard, in the early 1990s, written by a lay servant who had worked in the house of the Brompton Oratory. He revealed that each Oratorian was rich and had well-appointed rooms and they more or less lived separate lives, with some never leaving their room. Because they have no vows and each house is autonimous there was no community life to speak of and often the only time they met was at the Sunday High Mass or the Sunday Vespers.

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    1. Or they occasionally come across one another at the ‘dilly or Baker Street gents.

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      1. Or Green Park.

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  16. Magna believes in miracles! He does, you know, since, when I asked about them, his countenance assumed (not affected, I assure you all) an otherworldly piety; he then dropped, regimentally, to his kness, eyes cast upward, St Sebastian-like.
    He has remained there, motionless, some four hours now!
    Is this normal?
    Is it a miracle?!😲

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  17. I have just taken a look at the Oxford Oratory website. Until a week or so ago Daniel Seward was being referred as the Provost, had been interviewed for some Church rag, and appointed to Oxford Schools Board. Now there is a new Provost, and he is “absent”; not sick or on sabbatical or doing something else, just no longer there. As parishioners are treated to detailed information and photo galleries concerning every step of an Oratorian’s journey, I think they are entitled to some explanation when there is a train crash. The Oxford Oratorians opt for a very public profile parading round the city and exercising judgment on society. Moreover they promote without embarrassment their own brand of holiness. A recent newsletter for example contained the comment purportedly made by a school kid that “Father Daniel lives with Jesus.” Nice. So who does he live with now?

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    1. Who is the new Provost? I could find no mention of Fr Daniel Seward!

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    2. Oratorians are supped to stay in one place for their whole lives, so dear knows what has happened to him. I hope he’s met a nice man and they have decided to get married. I wish them all the best.

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      1. That’s sweet of you. So do I. Way to go, Daniel!

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  18. Pat, why does Noel not live in the parochial house next to St Peter’s cathedral? There’s plenty of space there. Bishops of D&C shouldn’t be commuting in from a palace up the Antrim Road. A bishop living next to his cathedral is visible, accessible, he keeps an eye on the place and helps out. Cardinal Heenan happily said the early morning Masses and joined the confession roster when he was ++Westminster.

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    1. Yes, Heenan did. He was a committed pastor, and a kind and sympathetic bishop during very turbulent times. Hume was an unworthy successor, who invented his own image and shamelessly promoted it to a gullible British public; he got off lightly by dying when he did.

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      1. When Heenan was a PP he was known for having shoes with holes in the siles. Apparently he lived very simply.

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  19. What do mean by heretics at 2:03? They said Mass in English? Many have spoken very warmly of Mgr Walter Drumm’s ministry in the cathedral confessional. I don’t see what you have to complain of if you were asked to make an act of contrition and then given absolution. Possibly he thought there was nothing worth saying to you if you were confessing pulling yourself off again. Grow up.

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    1. To be fair to you that’s what I usually confessed. I’m being very unfair to the saintly Mgr Drumm and I actually found his benevolent silence helpful and I know that many confessed to him. Mea culpa.

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  20. Well, you wouldn’t now, would you? According to last Sunday’s newsletter 17/02/2019, the new Provost of the Oxford Oratory in Father Daniel’s [unexplained] absence is Father Nicholas Edmonds-Smith. Never heard of him, buts sounds like ex Anglican. Let’s pool our resources and find out what’s really happened over a restorative gin.

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    1. A recent comment on Birmingham’s Spartan Sauna said: “I plucked up courage and joined the sauna world for the first time. Pleasantly surprised a very positive experience . It went in the early evening /late afternoon and it was not very busy. This suited my needs for a gentle introduction. Enjoyed it so much I have been back twice in as many days. A really good crowd. Love Daniel.“

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      1. And he probably finished off in Boltz down the road. It opens at 5. Very hands for a post afternoon sauna session.

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      2. You seem to be familiar with the Spartan sauna yourself when you’re reading comments regarding it. Give us a break.

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    2. Unexplained disappearances are always a welcome cause for speculation on the blog. And quite right too.

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  21. Re 2:03 he may have just been pissed. Poor old Walter had quite a little problem towards the end, and living with Mark Langham can’t have helped. RIP

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    1. Fr George Lyons RIP, who cracked open a bottle or two and was handsy with fit sems was also in residence then.

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      1. Really? Never heard of him. And that creep Langham evicted the much loved Norman Brown.

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      2. Who did you not hear of? George Lyons or Walter Drumm? George, who had been in Islington was appointed to Westminster Cathedral because Basil and George Stack the VG for clergy wanted to keep a close eye on him. George was an unlikely addition to the Clergy House team, being Irish and therefore a bit infra dig.

        But George carved out a ministry to the young, the divorced and immigrants. Then it went tits up when he got a bit free and easy in Allen Hall. Complaints were made and banishment to Portsmouth diocese followed and George died in his fifties of liver failure. RIP.

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  22. Cardinal Heenan wrote two excellent biographies. In the first one, “Crown of Thorns” he revealed that after during his ordination reception a priest made a speech to the ordaining bishop saying “today, My Lord, you ordained your successor”. That went down like a fart in a space suit.

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  23. Daniel’ in the doo-doo and now is hors de combat. Probably forever. He’s probably been shipped off to another Oratory for prayer, penance and isolation. South Africa, maybe. The other Orstorians in Oxford will glide along seamlessly. They are very sure of themselves. +Byrne will be called in to do some high liturgies and reassure the flock. Some pious nonsense about Daniel’s departure will do the rounds and all will be well. I agree that something should be said about why he has suddenly disappeared. After all it is the flick who provide for the upkeep of the place and the priests.

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    1. I’m dying to know what Daniel’s done. Is that awful? You’d have thought butter wouldn’t melt.

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      1. I think you need to give this Daniel whoever he is a rest. Finding it tedious to read so many posts about this person, clearly from the same English obsessed individual fond of the bottle.

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    2. Wasn’t Daniel at Newman’s old college, Trinity? Has, I wonder, some affair of the heart come back to haunt him? Would be rather sweet if it were. Do we think there was a dark lady? Well, do we? No.

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      1. A dark lady? Did he only date black men then.

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    3. And do you know more than you’re letting on?

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  24. I see Joe McGuinness is the new VG of Clogher according to their website. Seems he was offered the booby prize in the end.

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    1. Joe must be fuming.

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      1. Fit to be tied.

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      2. That boring old fossil in Enniskillen also made VG I see. Booby prize for him too as he wanted Clogher more than Joe did. He is more Church of Ireland than RC.

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  25. Ha! Ha! @3:51 clearly I scored a bulls-eye! But full marks to you for honesty. I just hope you’re not still confessing that stuff. You’re not mixed up with Opus Dei, are you? Get out: there’s life out there. Don’t beat yourself up (please, missus!) and be kind to yourself. Walter was famous for his sense of humour in the old days, so don’t worry and say a prayer for him. Peace, brother.

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    1. Thank you! Yes I still confess it and no, I have no dealings with the Work. I was highly offended when I visited their student hostel in Swiss Cottage with my then gurlfriend and they spent their whole time lovebombing her and took no interest in me.

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      1. Well, stay away from them! Nice you had a girlfriend, but if you decide you prefer blokes that’s okay too! Take a leaf out of Daniel’s book! Most importantly understand you are fine as you are, and nobody’s bothered about your wanking! Peace and God bless you.

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      2. I don’t want to lower the tone but I’ve never understood why the CC is so against masturbation. When I was a young man it was impossible to get past a day without it. I was driven mental by noon and if I didn’t deal with it by then I’d be thinking about sex all day otherwise and that was contrary to Catholic moral teaching.

        It always seemed to me to be innate and I could never work out why it was a sin. What harm was done? I’m long past that now but the memory of old confessions lingers.

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  26. Thank you for that titbit @3:59. I tracked down the piece in CT by Matthew Schmitz who assures the faithful that Newman would have married a woman, having eschewed that state not out of any distaste ( are you kidding?) but for the sake of the kingdom! I rest my case!

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  27. I think @4.17pm you now need to get over your clear obsession with the Oratory and Oratorians.

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    1. Oh really? And who are you, dear, Bishop Byrne? And I am not he or she at @4:17 , just another camp follower. If the Oratorians cannot take it they shouldn’t dish it out. I am sick to the back teeth of their pompous moralising and so called family values. The Provost of the London Oratory a few years back had the brass neck to preach against sodomy. Are you kidding? If Daniel has found a better life then good luck to him. He’s clearly not returning. Re his successor: only ordained by Nursie seven years ago. Has rather full lips, and does the rounds of the usual dives viz Knights of this and that, the Ordinariate, Norbertines, and – wait for it – Farnborough Abbey. Looks a treat in lace.

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    2. Hang on, Lottie, today’s post is about the Oratory and Oratorians There’s always the Herald if you don’t like it. Are you the same one who claimed a few days back that people were obsessing about American Cardinals on a post which that day was devoted to – eh – American Cardinals?

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      1. Is 6:40 the same poster at 5:51? You know very well who “this Daniel “ is: Very Rev Daniel Seward formerly Provost of the Oxford Oratory not some random nobody who has been caught with his keks down. Oh, and sorry that he’s English! Given the subject of today’s posting, Newman’s upcoming canonisation, the summit in Rome concerning the Church’s greatest crisis since the Reformation, and the contention of Martel’s book that virtually the entire Catholic clergy are homosexual, I should say that this Daniel bloke doing a runner is of great interest and relevance. Anybody agree with me?

        Liked by 1 person

      2. @7:03
        I totally agree, that’s what most readers of the blog come here for, the tittle-tattle on the comments.

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    3. + Byrne is that you? Not even ordained (pardon me dear, ‘consecrated’) bishop and already trying to slide things under the mat. A fast learner.

      The point is that the culture of secrecy has to end. A, by all accounts, good priest has chosen to leave public ministry – the same public deserve to know why. And if it is to find love (with man or woman) let that be know, and celebrated! It might even inspire some of the repressive types who congregate in these oratory churches to get out of their own closets.

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  28. Joe Mc Guinness and Peter O Reilly are both fuming about not getting the bishop’s job in Clogher. Peter will take solace in the C of I and Joe will just have to get on with it.

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  29. George Lyons – one of the best priests in Westminster. A shame that he died so young.

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  30. Thanks for info at 6:53. I knew Walter well at the height of his ministry at Oxford and OLV – hard to credit that is now in the hands of Jim Curry. George Lyons still doesn’t ring a bell, but I am delighted to hear he upset Mark Langham with his Irish craic. A bit rich for any of the “lads” at Allen Hall to complain of him or anyone else being a bit “free and easy”. Mustn’t have been their type. Basil Hume and George Stack: what a bloody awful double act! Makes me feel quite positive about Elsie.

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    1. Mgr Jim Curry always treated it as a bit of a joke. He said he was being ironic. He used to drive Basil about in Basil’s declining days. Basil, though just the son of a Newcastle doctor and not a well-born recusant, went on as if he was to the manor born. As such he despised the likes of George Stack and George Lyons.

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      1. Quite. Basil pulled the wool over so many eyes in so many different ways. Jim Curry was not too bad looking when younger, so that must have been an added bonus for the old fraud. Heenan was probably the best Archbishop in Westminster since Manning, and disgracefully under-rated; thanks mainly to his shameless successor. And since then? Looking around, one could do worse than Elsie, so make of that what you will! The auxiliaries are cyphers, but on past record, that won’t prevent their preferment.

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    2. Allen Hall indeed @ 7.18pm. It was a total sewer at one time compared to Maynooth. Actually the goings on in Maynooth were quite tame in comparison with Alice Hall. Total shag fest at one time.

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  31. Clogher has traditionally recognised partition by appointing two PPs north and south of the border respectivelly as VGs.

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    1. Clogher is in deep shit…..Larry Duffy has his hands full.

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      1. Larry Duffy is more of the same. St Macartan wept.

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  32. It’s a very pertinent point @7:23 and yet another disgraceful and sordid chapter in the Church’s history. All about control of young minds through shame and guilt and fear. And as we know now only too well an open opportunity for abuse and dirty old men getting their rocks off asking for the details. John Cornwell discusses it sensitively in his wonderful memoir of Cotton, “Seminary Boy”.

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  33. Hi up hi. The blog was entitled Miracles but it ended up considering the movers and shakers in Cinderella land. Course miracles are real. I’ve seen some but it’s not magic. God does answer prayer, works through others and makes his presence known. Thing is too many are so interested in Billy McWilly they can’t be bothered to look for God hi. Loaves n fishes a construct. Maybe n maybe not. The truth of the story is very true. If the loaves story is just a myth why all the fuss about the little white Host. Arsh n Pockets th hole lot of them but

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  34. You have a good point that we fail to discern the miraculous in life. All the more then am I sceptical of miracles to prove a point about a person’s sanctity which usually has a political agenda, as is clear in the rush to canonise recent popes. I think therefore today’s posting has concerned the motivation behind say Newman’s cause, and I believe this is a legitimate and necessary inquiry, which until recently would have been taken for granted rather than the suspect rush jobs we have seen in recent years.

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  35. Fly on Th Wall 23rd Feb 2019 — 7:09 am

    Fair comment 11.07

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