June 21, 2019 THE CATHOLIC WORLD REPORT
London, England, Jun 21, 2019 / 11:15 am (CNA).- A British judge has authorized doctors to perform an abortion on a pregnant Catholic woman with developmental disabilities and a mood disorder, despite the objections of the woman’s mother and the woman herself. The woman is 22 weeks pregnant.
“I am acutely conscious of the fact that for the State to order a woman to have a termination where it appears that she doesn’t want it is an immense intrusion,” said Justice Nathalie Lieven in her ruling in the Court of Protection, June 21.
The Court of Protection handles cases involving individuals judged to lack the mental capacity to make decisions for themselves.
Lieven claimed the abortion would be beneficial for the woman, saying that “I have to operate in [her] best interests, not on society’s views of termination.”
The woman, who cannot been publicly identified, has been described as “in her twenties,” and is under the care of an NHS trust, part of the UK’s National Health Service. Doctors at the trust wished to abort her pregnancy and argued that, due to her diminished mental capacity, the abortion would be less truamatic for the woman than either giving birth or being separated from the child.
The woman’s mother made clear to doctors and the court that she would assume care of her grandchild.
The woman is believed to have the mental capacity of a grade school-age child. She is reportedly Catholic, and her mother is Nigerian.
It is unknown if the pregnancy was conceived consensually, and police are investigating the circumstances of conception.
The woman’s mother, reported to be a former midwife, registered her absolute opposition to the abortion citing the Catholic faith of herself and her daughter. A social worker who cares for the woman also disagreed that she should be forced to have an abortion.
The judge said she did not believe the woman understood what it meant to have a baby, and said that “I think she would like to have a baby in the same way she would like to have a nice doll.”
Lieven also said that she did not believe the woman’s ongoing mental health care needs would permit her mother to assist in raising the child.
Allowing the child to be born and then removed from the woman’s home and placed into foster care or adoption would be against the woman’s own interests, the judge concluded.
“I think [the woman] would suffer greater trauma from having a baby removed [from her care],” Lieven said, because “it would at that stage be a real baby.”
Lieven clarified that the pregnancy “although real to [the woman], doesn’t have a baby outside her body she can touch.”
As a lawyer, Lieven has appeared in court before in cases concerning abortion. In 2011, while representing the British Pregnancy Advisory Service, an abortion provider, she argued that British women should be permitted to medically abort their pregnancies at their own homes instead of in a hospital.
Five years later, Lieven argued in court that Northern Ireland’s abortion laws were a violation of the United Kingdom’s Human Rights Act.
In 2017, she said that Northern Ireland’s abortion laws were akin to torture and were discriminatory.
Unrestricted abortion is legal in the UK until 24 weeks of pregnancy, after which doctors must certify that the abortion is in the medical interests of the mother.
NHS statistics show babies born at 24 weeks have a 50% chance of survival on average, though the rate depends on the NHS trust providing care. Babies born in a University College London Hospitals NHS Foundation Trust hospital in London at 23 weeks of gestation have a 70% chance of survival.
What an awful dilemma for this young woman, her mother, the doctors and the courts.
I have personal insight into these issues as my youngest sister Sandra RIP was intellectually disabled and the handling of her feminine issues was a bit of a mine field for her carers and family. She was very distressed on a monthly basis when she experienced what all women experience. There was also the fear that somebody, somewhere might take advantage of her and she might become pregnant. She would have not been able to handle a pregnancy in any way at all. The matter was resolved by placing her on a good contraceptive regime that took away her monthly distress and the danger of pregnancy.
In the current case the young woman does not have the capacity to address the whole situation herself.
Her mother is obviously emotionally involved and is being guided by her Roman Catholic religion. The court took the view that the mother could not look after both her daughter and a grandchild.
The judge has acted for “Pro Choice” clients before and that might lead people to think that she might be prejudiced?
On the other hand she has been appointed by the state to do the job she does on behalf of society and I imagine she has not left herself open to be challenged on a point of law.
This is one of those sad cases where everyone is a loser – and the baby will lose its life and be the biggest loser of all.
One last very big and very important question
WHY DID THIS GIRL’S MOTHER, CARER, SOCIAL WORKER ETC SEE TO THIS YOUNG WOMAN’S CONGTRACEPTIVE NEEDS – AND PREVENT THIS CURRENT TRAGEDY???
JUDGES OVERTURN ABORTION RULING
24 June 2019 BBC A woman has won an appeal against a court ruling that would have seen her mentally ill daughter forced to have an abortion.She appealed a decision made last week granting permission for specialists to end the pregnancy.
Three Court of Appeal judges in London upheld the appeal, overturning the previous decision.
Lord Justice McCombe, Lady Justice King and Lord Justice Peter Jackson will give reasons at a later date.
The judges were told the woman’s daughter is in her 20s, is 22 weeks pregnant, and has the mental age of a child aged between the age of six and nine.
She also has a “moderately severe” learning disorder and a mood disorder.
At a hearing in the Court of Protection last week, bosses at a hospital trust responsible for the pregnant woman’s care asked Mrs Justice Lieven to let doctors end the pregnancy.
Three specialists – an obstetrician and two psychiatrists – said they believed a termination was the best option.
They said there was a risk to the pregnant woman’s psychiatric health if pregnancy continued and they feared her behaviour could pose a risk to a baby.
But her mother – who was against abortion – said she could care for the child.
A social worker who worked with the pregnant woman, who lives in the London area, also said she should give birth, as did lawyers representing her.
But Mrs Justice Lieven ruled that on balance termination was the best option.
She said she had to make an “enormous” decision on the basis of what was in the pregnant woman’s best interests.
At Monday’s appeal hearing, barristers John McKendrick QC and Victoria Butler-Cole QC, successfully argued that ruling was wrong.
64 replies on “UK COURT ORDERS FORCED ABORTION FOR DISABLED WOMAN AGAINST HER WISHES.”
This is a hard case, and therefore would not make for good guidance in normal circumstances. Personally I am against abortion but I think this is one of the situations where it is the only way ahead, based on all the circumstances.
This report has been overtaken by events. The young woman’s mother appealed. The Court of
Appeal heard the case on Monday and reversed the decision of Mrs Justice Lieven. The judges said that they will give their reasons at a later date (as sometimes happens where it is essential that the parties know
the outcome of an appeal without delay).
The judge was raised a Catholic and had an Irish mother (Google her brother, Dominic Lieven. The collapse in catechesis leads to a Catholic battling on behalf of BPAS and killing this baby. I thought the death sentence had been outlawed.
6:55 You are entitled to hold and express your view on the evil of abortion. I agree with you.
However, your linking of a judge’s legal position with what you describe as ‘a lack of catechesis,’ in a cause-and-effect pairing would need to be substantiated by evidence – which you have not produced. It sounds as if the issue you raise is a hobby horse of yours.
And many of us have come to reevaluate the catechesis we received and rejected it in part or in whole.
The other poster’s concern is clearly more ecclesial ideology than the welfare of human beings.
He or she would be at home in Church Militant.
What a sad one. The baby has a right to life.. The question is mums health and safety. If mum can’t care for a child where is the support or perhaps adoption. Was there any support for the girl not to get pregnant in the first place. I’ve seen this kind of thing happen where a girl miscarried in her flat and nobody knew she was pregnant Disgraceful She had “needs” and where was the support
No you are picking and choosing what suits you, it’s called freethinking always condemned by The Church.
And I codemn the putrid church!
9:40 Not so. Theology has the concept of reception to describe the way in which a formula, or a practice was/is accepted (or rejected) over the course of a number of generations. Each generation has a responsibility to evaluate the words and practices of their day: to retain what’s good and helpful and to discard what’s not.
Anon @ 9:40: Does the alleged God who is supposed to have given us intelligence and free will expect us to abandon these attributes and simply unthinkingly follow the edicts of what you describe as “the Church?” And this “Church”: one that is shown time and time again to be an institution comprised of a rotten corrupt cabal of self serving individuals? Wise up!
OMG! where is that fly-swat when I need it.
10.00: MMM, keep your atheistic, abortion, culture of death mentality to yourself. It’s disgusting. Maybe you might refind God and refind a culture of respect for the sanctity of life. As an avowed atheist, your support for abortion is reprehensible.
MMM is one of the best contributors to this blog and is always 100% welcome.
MM at 10:00am.
You need to wise up,there is no ‘alleged’ God only Almighty God as you will find out when you are judged at your particular judgement I can imagine what your sentence will be, terribly hot I hope. He gave The Church the power to loose upon earth and it is our duty to follow the edicts of The Holy Church. The only rotten corrupt self serving individual is you, who will believe anything against The Church because you are evil, and a disciple of Satan.
I would like to propose a vote of thanks to 2:08 for demonstrating the culture of charity and valuing life which is really cultivated by alleged Catholics.
If this person isn’t Bellarmine, it must be a bosom chum.
Morning fly hi.
Tis a tough one fly a real heartbreaker.
Not the first time and won’t be the last.
More action through practical supports
and less pious pontificating platitudes would go a long way.
The Christian community needs to walk the talk with action.
Bye bye fly hi.
I’m not surprised at your answer since The Church has condemned you.
Top o’th’af’noon fly hi hi fly hi,
Know what I was thinkin flyhi? If I was a woman I would probably be pregnant now with your babbie fly hi bai. I wish I was woman fly hi for to have your childer hi bi fly bi. Fly bye-bye bi fly bi bbbb bi fly hi bai.
Let loose on earth, known abuser clerics to harm innocent children and vulnerable adults?
The Holy Church is rapidly losing credilbility.
A significant number of clergy are not as holy as you might think. Not by a long shot.
The fact that you consider someone who denies the existence of God as one of your best contributors and is 100% welcome says more about you than you think. You’re a disgrace.
At east he’s not a clerical ass licking hypocrite.
We Christians are suposed to welcome all.
Rejection of Catechesis? What you say is very true +Pat. Lock, stock and barrel.
In many countries, and certainly in Ireland, the indoctrination of “cradle catholicism” was psychologically and culturally imposed. But with greater mobility and broader more available education, the times are certainly changing. But will the ‘clergy’ ever catch up, or on?
No. They have a stake in keeping blinkers on the sheep.
MM at 9:49am
Strange that, the auld atheist and the renegade ex-cleric agree, tells you all you need to know.
Big bould Bella, the tradys trad, is back, after his sabbatical,
sounding as sweetly, abusively, charmingly certain, as ever.
Welcome back, Bella. How’s your confessor doing?
Far too depressing, Bp Pat. Time we had a cheery scandal or an update on seminarian life at Maynooth. I imagine many of them will be preparing for a couple of weeks in Ibiza or Mykonos, together with their trusty Spartacus International Gay Guide. Lucky things.
Spartacus gay guide? Are you for real and what age are you? No self respecting queer consults that book anymore. We do have a thing called the Internet now dear or apps if you’ve ever heard of them. You really do need to keep up. As for Ibiza and Mykonos they are very 1990’s destinations – you are showing how out of touch/date you are dear. Try Tel Aviv, much more modern a destination and very homo friendly. Good luck with The Spartacus – it’s so 80’s now. Like looking for a phone number in the telephone book.
You sound like a pulpit poove.
9.51: What a slutty, perverted fool you are! The abortion of this child – the deliberate destruction/killing of the unborn child as a topic for debate – is obviously too much for your shit brain. Go and flush yourself in the loo fully. Your type are perverts.
Scorn Not His Simplicity – Phil Coulter- Sung by Luke Kelly.
See the child
With the golden hair
Yet eyes that show the emptiness inside
Do we know
Can we understand just how he feels
Or have we really tried
See him now
As he stands alone
And watches children play a children’s game
He looks almost like the others
Yet they know he’s not the same
Scorn not his simplicity
But rather try to love him all the more
Scorn not his simplicity
See him stare
Not recognizing the kind face
That only yesterday he loved
The loving face
Of a mother who can’t understand
what she’s been guilty of
How she cried, tears of happiness
the day the doctor told her it’s a boy
Now she cries tears of helplessness
and thinks of all the things he can’t enjoy
Scorn not his simplicity
But rather try to love him all the more
Scorn not his simplicity
Only he knows how to face the future hopefully
Surrounded by despair
He won’t ask for your pity or your sympathy
But surely you should care
Scorn not his simplicity
But rather try to love him all the more
Scorn not his simplicity
Very difficult case.
But the pregnant woman wants to give birth, even though her judgement may be diminished.
The grandmother is against termination, and one would have thought she would have primacy in making decision for her impaired daughter, unless there is some reason for her not to be deemed suitable for that role.
The legal system seems to be working. The case is heard and an appeal is heard and a decision arrived at.
I don’t know the full facts of the case, or the reasoning of the judges.
But, for my money the weight should be given to the child who is voiceless and powerless in any decision and I am content to see the appeal judgement. It sounds just too easily convenient to terminate the pregnancy. Cui bono?
Thank God the original ruling has been overturned in this tragic story. That any society should impose a death sentence on an unborn child because it deems the mother incapable of being a good mother is morally reprehensible. The same British society has no difficulty in advertising for money for animal rescue charities to help save, care for and revive emaciated animals, yet the same society shirks and abandons its moral and ethical responsibilities re: saving, caring for and ensuring the protection of the unborn child. Abortion, sadly, is a big financial business in the UK and USA. This young vulnerable woman should not be put through the “convenience” of aborting her unborn child. Would the same judge have ensured the emotional, spiritual and social caring for this woman had the abortion been performed? I doubt it. We have created a culture of death: we don’t like inconveniences: we want a perfect society: we mouth platitudes about cherishing all the children equally, yet we have over 4,000 homeless children in our small country: we tolerate poverty, homelessness, long hospital waiting lists, children being placed in adult psychiatric wards. When, as a society, we abandon the principle of the sanctity, preciousness, uniqueness and gift of unborn human life, it is no surprise that we loose our reverence for the beauty and gift of life at all levels. To arbitrarily decide that any child is unworthy of birth on the basis that a parent may not be able to cope is a very dangerous decision to make. On the basis of “unsuitability” many a child will be aborted and many a potential parent might be denied their right to have a child. Are we now going to have a psychological screening test for parents? I hope, pray and trust that this young vulnerable woman will be treated with the utmost compassion, care, love, justice, kindness and given support. But most importantly this defenceless and innocent unborn child should be surrounded by the fullest of care. God bless the mother of this young woman. What wonderful bravery, courage and Christian faith.
You said that ‘when we as a society abandon the principle of the sanctity…of unborn human life’, ‘it is no surprise thst we lose our reverence for the beauty and gift of life at all levels’. When was human life here ever fully reverenced? I should love to know.
Speaking of reverence of human life, I wonder will some of those self-aggrandising African prelates, like that arrogant loud-mouthed bastard Arinze, dig deep in their ecclesial pockets to support this Nigerian family and their unborn child.
I wonder will ANY of these ecclesial whoremongers put their ample funds where their loud mouths are and offer financial support…at the very least. Let’s be honest: not one of them seems strapped for cash. Didn’t the odious Noel Treanor scrape together 4 million quid (or more) to patch up his hovel and offices? And didn’t that humble Vatican bureaucrat, a cardinal, find £50,000 to replace his shabby kitchen
3.02: Magna, your comment is utterly superfluous to the topic being discussed. We shouldn’t be subjected to your ad nauseam spewing out of hatred for clerics. Get over your angst of rejection: get over your baggage of unresolved trauma: get over your racism (against African clergy): get over your petty jealousies. Can you display some level of emotional growth? Are you capable of some meaningful empathy with another human being? Why such infantile, schoolboy bullying and tyranny in your language? Your anger achieves nothing except to deepen your dependence on alcohol, which, sadly in recent times, is frying your brains to bits! If the energy you waste on hatred, envy and anger was ‘actually’ used purposefully and positively, you might make a difference to society, but your faux indignation is nothing more than a psychopathic outburst of inner madness, emotionally, spiritually and mentally. Grow up Magna. Find nourishing friends who’ll help normalise you. Ask the good Lord or some of your good priest friends to help you. I’ll offer my psychotherapy sessions free for you. Now, back to your cot, please.
Maggie at 3:02pm
Maggie ye auld whoremonger what would you know about reverence for anything, if you just stop spending your benefit on drink and saved up, you could maybe do something about your shabby kitchen. You are so jealous.
You’re not the brightest star in the constellation, are you?
My post was entirely relevant, since hypocrites like Arinze and Treanor are the very people who would protest abortion, but refuse to raise a financial finger to help unfortunate women with unplanned pregnancies.
These ecclesial whoremongers would rather focus on themselves, spending morally atrocious amounts of other people’s money in the process.
When you’ve finished brown-nosing these Christ-betrayers, perhaps you’ll reflect more before ever again posting such voluble garbage. But I doubt your ability to do so, since you need intelligence for this..and you just don’t possess it, you utter fool.😆
6.13: There you go again, zombie brained Magna, unable to behave like a mature, self respecting adult. You have no capacity to take criticisms, you are so demented and agonised within by your own angst, jealousies, envy, hatred of others and self inflicted turmoil that you can no longer behave ratiinally. You might present as intelligent (thanks to chunks from Wikipedia!!), but you ain’t clever or smart or perceptive because every word you write is full 9f vitriol and poison. You degrade your own dignity (if you have any) by your bullying, mad and destructive language. Just wonder sometimes what you say when you look at the reflection in the mirror (if it doesn’t first crack to pieces)?? Are you frightened? Now, let’s all pray for Mags.
Good one Magna, you’ve ruffled their feathers good and proper 👍
I particularly love the bit about they shouldn’t be subjected to you… but they keep coming back for it don’t they!
6.13: Piss head Magna, take your head out of the loo. The stink is coming through your words. It’s horrible and your whole psyche is sunk in filth. Grow up, gombeen.
Maggie girlie – how are you? 🍌🍌🍌🍌🍌🍌🍌🍄🍄🍄🍄. Eat your bananas and toad stools…🥔🥔😣😣😣😣
6.13: Better to be a bright star, however dull the light, than being a dark, nasty, vile and dangerous fading star. You’re a very fallen star Maggie! God help you.
6.13: Miss Cartwheel: seems like you have graduated from booze to drugs of some kind. Your brain is becoming deader by the moment – so much nasty, vitriol and poison. Don’t choke on the flowing poison…Please mind yourself.
Well said. Our priorities are all askew. Cats, dogs, donkeys…you name it, we take care of them. If you don’t and you are cruel to them, you will be prosecuted.
But, a human life (which is what this unborn child is !) can be aborted for every reason under the sun that happens to suit a particular person, pressure group, mindset….whatever !
I take my hat off to the appeal court judges who have stayed this abortion. I will be interesting to see their reasons, and I hope that in there will be some recognition not just of the utility of the person, or the convenience to others of an abortion, but a recognition that this child does have the right to life and that cannot be denied in the interests of anybody else, including the mother. The irony is the mother actually wants the child.
Abortion, in all circumstances, is simply a moral negative, although there may be very limited circumstances where it is the lesser of two evils if one is trying to achieve a moral good. Anything else is simply reprehensible and a crime against the most vulnerable and innocent, usually in the interests of the powerful, the selfish, other interests, or ignorance.
I find myself dissenting from so much of Catholic teaching on a lot of things. But, on the matter of the protection of life, both of the unborn and the infirm and elderly, the Catholic Church has it spot on.
They’re glutton’s for punishment. 😂
You hit a psychological nail there, squarely on its Freudian head. They don’t want to be subjected to my ‘ad nausem spewing out of hated for clerics’, do they? But they keep subjecting themselves to it, don’t they?
I think there’s a little fetish they all, er, not-so-secretly share…and doubtedless enjoy immeasurably.😅 (I think I should start charging a fee.)
Er, ‘better to be a bright star, however dull the light…’?.😕 ‘Bright’ and ‘dull’ juxtaposed in the same, self-contradictory sentence?
What point were you making, other than unintentionally declaring yourself slightly less than braindead?😅
Can’t believe that you ,Pat,is questioning her social workers and her mum.she is pregnant,
so just take it from there.
don’t see the reasoning that this baby will be disabled…he/she may be be perfect…would love to know when she delivers.
The “Fly” and “Magwa” pests are definitely the two Buck eejits with the wee dog and budgies from a while back. They’re from about Monaghan or Cavan I’d swear. Wish they would both clear off to hell’s gates out of it.
“Magwa” is the worst with his sycophantic immediate replies to “Fly”. It’s very bizarre indeed the whole thing.
Mind you, the sending them up as gay lovers is a scream 😂
Hello @2:40pm 2:59pm 4:51pm.
Syco what’s a mighty a big word learnt in semanarys like Gaynooth.
How come youse have ants in yur pants giving youse ire.
Don’t be doing the work of the devil.
Evening prayer ladd.
By bye. Bye.
Anon@2:08: “terribly hot” you hope for me. Is this your version of Christianity? Maybe you should read your New Testament more closely.
Anon @2:07: Where have I spoken of abortion or a culture of death? Do you falsely project these on me because you are unable to give any semblance of a coherent answer to my question? Or maybe you’re just plain stupid.
MMM, frankly the majority of faithful Catholic commenters here share the same hate-filled version of Christianity. And there’s no point trying to point out that they might be mistaking the point, because actually their most firmly held belief is that every one apart from them is wrong.
Frankly you and I seem to have read the New Testament with more attention than they have, and we’ve seen the bit in it where some bloke says that some people who think they’re holy will get a shock!
8.37: What is the meaning of this convoluted piece of confused commentary? Can you articulate a little more intelligently? Must be a nice feeling to be acquainted with scriptures!! Pity you Don’t read Christ’s words more carefully….they are meant for you also!!
8:47 is a case in point 🙄
6.35: MMM, are you sitting on your bar stool trying to be clever? Doesn’t work….
It is an acknowledged reality that persons of limited intelligence, by that very factual limitation are often impeded in their perceptions and understanding. Often they just don’t understand the nature of greater intelligence in others and confuse it as being greater education: being clever.
It’s an interesting subject Anon @8:49. Don’t you agree?
By the way I rarely “sit on a bar stool” or for that matter drink alcohol other than on Fri & Sat evenings when I certainly enjoy my Guinness. I’ve answered your question: happy now?
Pat, there’s one thing I will never understand, and that is why people who by their own admission disagree violently with your views, come on your blog and moan because you run it as you think fit! Yes, I’ve just checked and it definitely has Bishop Pat Buckley in the title – that’ll be the independent bishop who values free speech and has devoted much of his life to exposing the whited sepulchre the RC church is. Why would you expect the blog to be any different? You’ve spent several decades at this work, migrated across the internet and it should be obvious you’re not going anywhere any time soon.
Oh – the other thing is when people moan about the house your in. You’ve explained repeatedly that you live there because of a court judgement and can’t say any more, but they keep on banging on about that.
Some priests, sorry, people obviously have way too much time on their hands!
You’re right, like the bold Bucko who has to much time on his hands but that usually the case with squatters.
Indeed. They cant help themselves.
A senior High Court judge in Belfast decided that I had acquired the RIGHT to live where I live.
Ive stood my ground for 4 decades now. “The bishop’s not for turning” 😄
Pat where is vin Nichols statement on this. His job is to protect the flock from the wolves. He wears red as an example of this. Once again the bishops fall silent. Disgraceful
Magwa at 6:52pm -‘go and say your own evening prayer you bloody auld eejit and wise up. There’s something wrong with your head.
Hello Phoebe ladd.
Phoebe lad what’s bugging you.
There’s nathin wrong with my head
butt is there something going on in your head.
Don’t be doing the work of the devil and
don’t be abusive by gaslighting.Be good
for goodness sake and pray yur office.
Bye bye. Bye.