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DUBLIN GAY ALLEGATIONS.

YESTERDAY, SEVERAL COMMENT MAKERS, DUBLIN PRIESTS AMONG THEM, ALLEGED THAT TWO SENIOR DUBLIN PRIESTS ARE IN A LONG TERM GAY RELATIONSHIP.

From the human point of view there is absolutely nothing wrong with two men committed to each other in a loving relationship.

In fact the people of Ireland recently put gay marriage on a par with heterosexual marriage.

The problem only arises because of RC teaching and canon law.

It is absolutely clear in RC teaching that ordained priests be celibate for life. While, technically, celibacy means not to marry, the spirit of the law and teaching requires that priests never engage in sexual intimacy with any other human being, or indeed with themselves.

As far as the church is concerned two priests cannot be regarded as a “couple”.

A priest is, and is seen to be, a representative of the RC church.

To preach and teach one thing, and to contradict that teaching in your own private life is to leave yourself open to the charge of hypocrisy.

The RC church says that all sexual activity outside the Sacrament of Marriage is sinful.

I dont believe that.

But priests within the system, especially if they occupy positions of upholding canon law and church teaching, are bound even more closely by that law and teaching.

You can’t have your cake and eat it.

I have referred all the information I have received to Archbishop Diarmuid Martin. He was surprised at the information. He will now begin a formal enquiry, while presuming innocence until guilt is proven. We cannot disagree with that. That is justice.

Of course the phenomena of two priests being couples is becoming more and more common. There are priest couples in all Irish dioceses. There are many in the Archdiocese of Dublin.

Even if the celibacy rule changes I cannot see the Vatican blessing and allowing priest couples.

So let us see what comes out of the current investigation in Dublin.

What do readers think?

155 replies on “DUBLIN GAY ALLEGATIONS.”

But why would they neee justice? They haven’t committed a crime. They are private citizens

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A warning to the priest.
Step down from that job you massive hypocrite!!!
We all know about your “happy lifestyle”. The jig is up!
How dare you implement LAW on others while you are breaking Gods law.
The gay relationship, the gifts, the holidays, the hotels, the cars, the veneers, the expensive suits, the expensive clerical garb from Gammarelli. It will all be discussed and exposed.
P.s your long term partner will also learn about your secret lovers. Hypocrite!

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Yes pat people are angry.

He is not a very nice man. He pretends to be conservative and surrounds himself with conservative priests. Latin, lace etc. He minces around the parish in a soutane. He looks down on lay people and sees himself as the golden prince. He defines insipid clericalism.

The real problem is his double lifestyle and his new position of power over genuine Catholics. He can make it difficult for a genuine person to get an annulment while he holds hands with his BF on a Spanish beach.

Wrong!!!

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Since when did you give a fuck Pat about canonical and ecclesiastical Law? Jesus man, have you listened to yourself. You are a total joke.

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I dont care about them. But those who claim to believe in them, and indeed impose them on others, should live by them. Me thinks YOU have an agenda.

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By Post Author

DM has never expressed how he feels about me. But he does answer questions unlike most of the rest of them.

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Your first sentence is problematic and not accurate. There are married RC priests – those who had been priests and/or ministers in another denomination and who decided to enter into full communion with the RC church. So it’s not clear that priests have to be celibate for life and it most certainly is not absolute.

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Yes, Pat. True. But you used the word ‘absolutely,’ which may be defined as ‘admitting of no exception.’ So a more accurate expression is needed. Many if not most popes and bishops of the first millennium were married. Traditionally, of the apostles, only John was not married. So linking obligatory celibacy to ministerial priesthood is a relatively recent discipline. It is not a dogma. Scholars are not unanimous about how ‘presbuteros’ literally an older person (in a community) became ‘hiereus’ a priest. The earliest combination appears to be that of overseer ‘episkopos’ and delegate or ambassador ‘diakonos,’ unhelpfully called ‘deacon.’

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A nasty snitch and busybody — totally destructive behavior — intended to destroy the happiness of two aging men and possible lose two good priests to the Archdiocese — all with the agenda to wipe out the Catholic Church.

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A good priest is one who is honestly striving to discern what the Gospel has to offer the men and women of today and who devotes himself to that.
The insane obsession with where the priest places his affections, or in the tortured imagination of self-haters, his penis, is … well an insane obsession.

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Exactly, + Pat. The hypocrisy of a significant number of bishops and clergy is staggering.

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Come on Bishop Pat you know only too well that the Archbishops and Bishop are not destroying the Church.

The ones destroying the Church is these hypocritical clergy and they should all resign now as really their number is up.

+ Martin has replied to you and really he will take it serious even although he is in retirement mode as he only has 9 months left and he is losing his other assistant Bishop in September.

Canon Law is strict again as you know but it will be done to the proof for + Martin to take any action.

Remember KOB friends say he is totally innocent and you can be assured these two priests will so No NO to + Martin as they will be liars and hypocrites like KOB.

Non Celebrate clergy should look in the mirror and resign now and I am not speaking about the Anglicans that have come over I am speaking about the RC ordained clergy.

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A sure these guys will have to pull trousers up, let cassocks down tell the truth and weather the storm. Hypocrites have no place in a real church hi

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If His (dis) Grace of Dublin is claiming ignorance of this situation he must be completely out of touch with his presbyterate. This situation is well known throughout the diocese for years and feigning ignorance on Martin’s part just doesn’t pass muster.

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Someone once said
“The day you become a bishop people stop telling you the truth”.
DM seemed genuinely surprised.

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I hope the Abp has the means to put your mind at rest, Bp Pat. It sounds like a long term relationship between aged queens, or just two dirty old men who have been shacked up for years.

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They may genuinely love each other? But they are in the wrong jobs in the wrong organisation.

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Also the man has had secret lovers unbeknownst to his long term partner. It is not just about two people in a relationship. There is more to the story.

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“They may genuinely love each other” and for all the snoops know their love may be perfectly “chaste”.

This whole thread is one of the sickest I have come across.

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agism and homophobia have never been more uglily expressed — “two dirty old men who have been shacked up for years” — are probably more loving and honorable people than the cynic who penned those nasty words

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The only reason that this could be of any importance to us is if it is a case of brazen hypocrisy. I do not care whether two men live together, have a relationship, or sexual relations with each other, as long as it is consensual and legal. If two priests chose to be in a relationship, then I have no problem with that. Except….where it clearly violates the public promises and expectations of the priesthood as currently understood, namely if it is a sexual, genital relationship. If they are close friends, loving, affectionate, companionable, that is fine. But, if they are sexually connected then that is, I am afraid, hypocrisy. Because they have publicly taken a promise of celibacy, they publicly avow to being celibate, their bishop, diocese, Church and parishioners have a reasonable expectation for them to be celibate. That is the promise they have made and what the Church expects of them. So, anything other is, quite simply, hypocrisy.

I would prefer that the Church could get away from mandatory clerical celibacy, I would prefer if the Church was accepting of same sex relationships. I would celebrate that, and if two priests in that situation were in a relationship that was sexual I would have no problem with it. What I have a problem with is the lying and the hypocrisy, and people living a double life, which is not good for them or for us whose trust is damaged when we know that we are being lied to.

So, in the current situation, and with the current Church discipline and requirements, and with the reasonable expectation of the laity that priests keep to their public promises, then if these two priests are in a sexual relationship, it is not acceptable and they should be required to desist or depart. Sorry, harsh I know, but I prefer to protect honesty, integrity and faithfulness to public promises, rather than to condone hypocrisy.

So, + Diarmuid of Dublin should take an interest in this and talk to these two priests, and if it is as I have said above, then he should tell them to desist, and if they won’t he should move them on. And + Pat is perfectly right bring this to + D’s attention.

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All very well said.
In bringing this to DM’s attention I am doing so on behalf of concerned Dublin priests. I can raise these matters without fear of disapproval or retribution.

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You couldn’t give a shit about Dublin Priests or vice versa. How many would give you the time of day – zero! Don’t come on here saying you act for these people because you don’t. It’s for your own agenda you scum bag. Have you not got any alcoholics to tend to or have they wised up too and pissed off.

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I have regular contact with Dublin priests. Sorry to disappoint you. So far I am having an addict free week. Gives me time to deal with some of the gobshites on here 😊

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A few months ago a priest wrote to you about his sexual life and you lauded him highly. Why are you now pouncing on other priests who are alleged to be doing the same thing? There is no consistency in your nasty, self-hating, vengeful inquisitions.

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I sense from some of the comments here that this case does not just involve sexual hypocrisy, but also lifestyle hypocrisy. You know, clergy with flash cars, jewellery, fine clothes, exotic holidays, perma-tans, fine dining, expensive interior design tastes. Yes, I know, they claim they have family money and benefactors, but surely they are called to simplicity of life and responsibility as priests in the way that they consume and live their lives. The people they minister to invariably lead much more simple and less extravagant lives. These flash priests do not do themselves or the Church any favours.

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2:34

No, not just celibacy, but ancillary matters, like lying, hypocrisy, deceitfulness, possible misuse of money, etc

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If only this were a rarity. I worked with a priest for years who had an opposite-sex relationship. She even had her own set of keys and used to leave for work in the mornings from his house. They used to go on holidays together and all. I used to feel sorry for her, giving up the chance of a proper family life and children for him. I had no problem with their relationship; anyone can fall in love, but he should have done the right thing and resigned to be with her. People, myself included, would have been delighted to see them settled and having an ordinary life as a married (or otherwise) couple. Unfortunately, he loved power as much as he loved her.

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This is true for most organisations. Even making helpful suggestions in industry or commerce for improvement of design, functioning, or indeed any aspect is seen as a threat: namely that the “superior” ought to have known/realised/thought of it first etc etc. Looking at the history of invention and innovation shows this pattern repeated continually.
In the cockpit of human interactions, superiors don’t like complaints, often viewing it as an affront to their supervisory abilities, especially if the complaint encroaches on their comfort zones by forcing them to take action.
It were ever so.
MMM

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Pat

Diarmuid Martin is a liar. He is lying to you. He recently moved both priests to opposite ends of the diocese far away from each other. He did this to discourage them.

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I have never found DM lying to me. He has either answered or not answered. Maybe you have found differently?

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He was aware of their relationship. He moved one to Rush and the other to Ballybrack/Killiney/Loughlinstown . Opposite ends of the diocese. The question you need to ask is why? That will lead to the truth.

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To be clear pat

Fr. Xxxxx Xxxxxxx a good man who is liked in the diocese.

It is the legalistic gremlin Fr. Xxxx Xxxxx who the priests have issue with.

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11.58 is way off target. The men in question are on adjoining north Dublin parishes and have been repeatedly facilitated thus! I think a certain auxiliary bishop is their protector.

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And he will be gone September or October.

Did you see how quick Bishop Fields resignation was accepted in record time and likely Bishop Walsh’s will be as well.

Why does it take so long for a Bishops ordination Clonfert is not till October.

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Did he not do a hospital chaplains course and was destined for a Dublin hospital?
Gorgeous is a sensitive matter.
He knows where all the bodies are buried.

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Pat you are OBCESSSSSED with Georgous, don’t you know he was innocent and wants to get on with his ordination.

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Yes, Gorgeous is a saintly virgin 😊 If he joined an order they would call him Father Maria Goretti.

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Gorgeous did not deserve all the abuse he got on this platform. It got out of control.

DM won’t ordain him which is sad. Gorgeous has always been loyal to DM. I don’t understand his loyalty after being completely f***ked over.

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My understanding is that DM has been very kind and supportive to Gorgeous.

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How do you know he has been kind and supportive Pat?
Why can’t he be forgiven and ordained? I am sure he learned a big public lesson. It has been many years now and he is still a deacon.

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Other Dublin clergy have told me so. It’s not a question of forgiveness. It’s about suitability for priesthood. Having said that many priests have used a d abused Gorgeous. In the end DM has the final say.

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+Pat

What if like an abuse victim he finds it hard to come forward and talk about it? It only dawned on me now that he shows all the telltale signs of someone who has been abused. Wow! The poor guy.

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You talk about Justice Buckley which agae is a total laugh. You only want to OUT Priests, you are anti gay. Don’t give me that standard bullshit about marrying gay people etc because you only do that for money. You would marry two donkeys if it meant financial reward. There is great concern in the gay community at your pleasure in OUTING gay people including Priests as we celebrate Belfast Pride this weekend. You are a total and absolute disgrace of a man who claims to be gay himself, what total hypocrisy. You conduct witch hunts and a psychologist said recently on here that this behaviour shows you to be psychologically disturbed. Friends in the Rainbow Project are furious that you’ve engaged again in shamefully outing individuals again and to their employers. Disgusting behaviour

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So, it’s ok to be a GAY HYPOCRITE but not a HETEROSEXUAL HYPOCRITE.
You think that people should be free from living up to their promises because they are gay?
Gays must never be criticised? They are always and everywhere above criticism?
I thought you wanted to be treated just like everyone else???

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Pat, you are a sick man, and you react to criticism with a childish tantrum that shows a complete inability for introspection and self-criticism.

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Pat, I think your correspondents are speaking of two different ‘couples’ The North Dublin adjoining parishes share a house jointly owned in leafy Clontarf, these are protected by the auxiliary of Dublin. The others referred to are not widely known.

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Diarmuid Martin’s heart must sink when he gets a text/email from you Pat. He probably thinks “is it my turn now”.

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Diarmuid Martin is a caring Archbishop and does not keep good health.

If anyone knows how caring he is ask gorgeous after all any other Bishop would have sacked gorgeous.

Maybe Archbishop Paul Tighe will ordain gorgeous if he gets Dublin.

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Dear Bishop Pat,
Can you politely inform Dr. Martin that I will be releasing the names of all the priests I personally know to be in relationships in the Archdiocese of Dublin.
It is time.
Thank you.

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I would like him to know before he leaves Dublin. He needs to address it. He already knows about many of the relationships. I will just confirm them and give evidence when appropriate.

Regards.

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What do you think he should do about all these relationships?
Why not present him with the list now and ask for a detailed response?

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By Post Author

Calling someone a snitch is infantile. A person would not have to snitch if the priest in question was living a virtuous life.

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Many comments on here reveal an infantile obsession with sexuality and a resentment against obligatory celibacy and against church discipline on same-sex issues. From a sociological and anthropological perspective, it is evidence that the current regulation of these areas is not working and, very likely has not been working for decades, if not centuries.

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Post DM is most charming to his enemies, its a tactic, don’t mistake it for anything else he abhors your guts!

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DM was the one to say “The truth will set you free even if the truth is revolting”.

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By Post Author

😊 Indeed I am not. But he is different from the other Irish bishops. He does not stay in Maynooth. He does not eat with them. They all were angry with him for moving his sems out of Maynooth.

Of course he is far from perfect. His relationship with the Dublin priests is a big worry.

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By Post Author

Perhaps the Dublin priests, and many more of them in the priesthood, would do well to adhere to the old dictum employed by many professionals that not only should Caesar’s wife be above reproach but BE SEEN to be above reproach. Not a lifestyle which gives rise to gossip and scandal.
Anyway that’s my take on it for what it’s worth and it’s coming to you ex cathedra as I have a nice big mug of coffee.

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There’s a simple answer to DM’s life-style about Maynooth: he is not a Maynooth alumnus. He was educated in Clonliffe.

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We thought cloyne was the clerical gay capital of the irish RCC, it looks like dublin is is giving it a run for its money,but as we all know cork is the real capital .

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So it’s not true that Bishop Michael cleaned house and tied up most loose ends before the handover, then?

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I have never laughed so much over this blog, simply because a clerical relationship has been revealed and immediately confused with any number of others.

The first comment thread has an interesting comment about them being private citizens. No. Priests are in public life and needs to remember that.

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9:56 GPs , schoolteachers, politicians, school crossing patrols, are not professional Christians, nor do they claim to be ontologically changed, not do they claim apostolic sucession ..etc.

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Down and Connor isn’t too far behind. I have absolutely NO problem with anyone who is gay but how dare they preach otherwise when the activity they are engaged in is the very activity they condemn with their mealy mouths. Same for heterosexual priests in relationships. If they want to belong to the club then surely they must follow the rules of the club. How can anyone trust a word that comes out of their mouths.Absolutely spot on when you say that the church is being ruined by bishops and clergy alike. They live in their ivory castles and look down on us. It’s do as I say and not as I do. Hypocrites and a failing and falling church

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And this “rules of the club” attitude to the church is the attitude of someone who just has a dull, stale resentment of the church and have probably not darkened its doorstep for decades

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But they are supposed to speak on sexual ethics and believe and uphold them as the church teaches them? Otherwise they undermine the faith and cause people to reject it.

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2:48

If any priest today preached on sexual matters, he would, at best, be sniggered at.

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2:48 Yeah. To be fair, many clerics are not in a position to preach on a sexual theme, even if they are supposed to!

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At 10:01 You haven’t answered the question. The precise question relates to whether these professions are public. In other words, what makes a career public?

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Pat, as a lay person I believe that the real faith damage is not done by a clergyman in a relationship or having sex, it’s when he brings his prejudices and obsessions into all his ministry associates, situations and crises. They’re destroying the church from the inside.

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Moral theology is always changing and developing as new insights about human psychology are discovered and taken on board: e,g. the death penalty, smoking, slavery, ecology and waste management. What is it about human sexuality that would make you think the same dynamics are not at work there?

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Because they have sleepovers multiple nights a week. The car can be seen parked outside the house 90% of the time. 🙂

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You are inquisitive to an unhealthy degree if you are spending your time and energy on where someone else spends the night. What prurient conclusions do you draw from the fact that religious sleep under the same roof all the time?

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9:51
So, when is the Vatican and the hierarchy going to let the faithful know the Rcc teaching on human sexuality has changed and developed due to new insights?Or, has it? I thought Rcc moral teaching views homosexual acts
as intrinsically disordered? Has that teaching officially changed?

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One of the factors considered when charting the history of a dogma or a discipline is that of its reception. How was the subject received? Humanae vitae is a case in point. The vast majority (perhaps over 90%) of Catholics have voted with their feet on artificial contraception, irrespective of how stringently that teaching was promoted by popes. Reception of the position on same-sex issues, if the current state of affairs in the world, including Ireland, is a reliable indicator would suggest that it is being substantially ignored and is becoming increasingly more so.

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Pat, DM should be asked about the early retirement of Frs Paddy Moran, Paddy Monahan, Derek Smith. They are all conected!

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Paddy Monahan was a classmate in Clonliffe. Paddy Moran and Derek Smith were ahead of me. A priest told me that Paddy Monahan had a problem with DM.

Can you enlighten us on what happened these three?

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I doubt he would tell. I remembered all the men. Liked the two Paddys a lot. Derek Smith I found unfriendly in the extreme. I read a very good article he wrote a few years ago and wrote to congratulate him. No response!

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2:57. How wrong can you be?? See it for what it is and not through rose tinted glasses. Nothing I enjoy more than calling into a church when I’m out, to pray and contemplate. Resentment? Yes I have resentment at the hypocrites running the church or should I say ruining the church. Resentment against the way they have tainted Christ’s message. Resentment, (anger would be a better word) against their fleecing people and selling their congregations short. Anger my friend is the word not merely resentment

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2:40 & 3:23
Maybe righteous indignation is an appropriate term @ 3:23.
Not only are bishops and clergy destroying the Church from the inside, they are doing
an excellent job, of destroying the Church from the inside. A lot of these fellows are NOT living the gospel!

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2:10pm I think you’re wrong about Down and Connor……..there might be a few gay priests in the diocese but none of them are in relationships with each other. There’s a lot of fine clergy in D & C.

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How is Fr Dr John Bolland from Paisley? Any news Pat? He is a total hunk. Surprised the Jocks haven’t been on here snitching on their sexually active clergy today! Lots of
long term Priestly relationships there too – mostly between Paisley and Glasgow Priests, but with a few others in the club too!

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Perhaps relocation to Australia and Canada respectively may be the only solution to this sordid affair. They can keep in touch with Skype.

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Oh My where is Dame Bella today.

Dame Bella is usually on standing up for her Church.

And the other sister magna is very quiet today.

Relationships mmm

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Auld Gossip Alert at 7:56p
Auld Mother Gossip is back using one of her litany of names, perhaps Patsy you can enlighten her and me as to why you have not printed any of my comments since Tuesday. I don’t like any of my lowlife detractors to think I’m not retaliating. Not exactly fair play of you.
Evivva Maria!

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Its low life that has double standard clergy.
Married Men having sex outside the Holy Marriage.

Unkind attacks on people and so on.

Who the hell is Auld Mother Gossip it usually called old mother hen.
God Bless

I will offer the Luminous Holy Rosary for you on this First Friday as I am sure you are out at First Friday Holy Mass like I was at 9am this morning.

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It’s interesting how animated clergy become, when an issue on this blog concerns
them, their sex lives, their lifestyles and their status as a fraternity.

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11.00

That word “interesting” is the most non-committal of predicates. It sounds urbane and sophisticated when it’s lazy and a case of the user nailing their colours unambiguously to the fence.

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Irrespective of A.’s comment @ 7:53, I for one certainly find it “interesting”, ……and revealing.
Could it be that the clergy are vacuously self obsessed on this issue and therefore comment profusely here, because they have so little of importance otherwise to obsess about?
It’s easy to get that impression from this blog where clergy rarely make intelligent educated sensible argument in respect of the tenets, relevance and credibility of their church and religious beliefs, even despite trenchant criticism, yet are so quick to jump on a bandwaggon of trivia, tittle tattle and inane responses concerning the minutiae of gossipy stories concerning themselves.
Little wonder the RC church is descending into a laughing stock obscurity.
MMM

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Dear MMM!
Rumours of the church’s imminent demise have been circulating since the beginning of Christianity. The last sentence of Matthew’s Gospel may act as a counterbalance:
“And see: I am with you always until the end of time” (28.20).
It’s not clear why this should disappoint you, but it is likely that it does.

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Thank you @7:41.
Anon@7:18 refers to demise, otherwise called death or extinction. I was referring to obscurity, otherwise irrelevance or insignificance.
The laughing stock requires no clarification.
MMM

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