78 thoughts on “THE SAD STORY OF A WORNESH SEMINARIAN.

  1. Ah holy sweet jayziz

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  2. Dear former seminarian,
    You really are better off out of it: your treatment would only have got worse as the years went on.
    I am interested to ask whether they gave you a reason you had to join that year or wouldn’t get another chance, when you were the youngest there?!

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  3. Is this toeture over yet?

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  4. This account truly takes the biscuit. I have to say I find it compellingly credible as it resonates so much with other accounts of seminary life. I am truly sorry you were subjected to so much atrocious behaviour, and salute your courage in sharing your story. For those who have missed some details: your father recently bravely identified himself and therefore you, and then there are the references to your having to leave in the middle of the night, your asthma and difficulty in getting hold of medicine, and so on. From that premise, your bishop who has brought further shame on himself – he is no Father in God. Moreover, it is not at all difficult to identify many of the other actors in this reprehensible affair, both staff and students. How many students at Wonersh suddenly slip into Italian? Might it be then that Seminarian X who made your life hell was on placement three years ago? It is clear that Wonersh is unfit for purpose. One might think there would be a full-blown visitation, but let’s face it, even if that were to happen, so what? It would soon be business as usual. Look at the damp squid that was Sean O’Malley’s inspection of Maynooth a few years back! Hardly surprising since O’Malley could not even keep his own seminary in order in Boston – big story there last year with all the usual stuff. And what is the one feature which overwhelmingly dominates seminary life and which refuses to go away? The inability to process, integrate and deal with in a healthy manner homosexuality. Elsewhere in the developed world it is now unexceptional and so not a problem, but in a society where everybody is gay yet in denial it jolly well is a problem like anything else which is suppressed and denied – yet at Wonersh it is called human formation. How the hell could Peter Smith have never noticed what was going on? Or Kieron Conry for that matter, as that cess pit is in what was his own diocese? Did Kieron never notice that virtually every other priest he ever knew was queer? Or was it the usual clerical culture of I won’t tell if you keep stumm about my dalliances with the ladies? And do we have hopes for John Wilson? What do you think ? No answer necessary! Lawrence, God bless you, and thank you. Should anybody try to threaten you over this, let me assure you are protected from making disclosures regarding safe-guarding issues, and it is unlawful to try to prevent whistle-blowing. You are performing a real service unlike those phoney freaks you left behind.

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  5. After this, worth revisiting that creepy video of Wonersh and making a few connections!

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    1. We are not allowed to talk about the arrest and what’s going on here at St John’s Wonersh. This comment might put me and my fellow seminarians in huge danger.

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      1. Well, sorry but you and your chums have to decide where you stand: do you put up and shut up and so become part of a hugely dysfunctional system, or do you do the decent thing and stand up and be counted? These after all are safeguarding issues which the law requires to be taken seriously. Should you think that the authorities are covering up or suppressing whistle-blowing you have a duty to speak to the proper authorities. If not what kind of priest would you be and how would account for your inaction to the Lord? Again and again we are reminded that the Church still does not take safeguarding seriously. Their first and only resort is still cover up.

        Liked by 1 person

      2. In danger of death? Or being asked to leave?

        Surely you can not live a lie and an unchristian life.

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  6. Why were all three “sisters” admitted back into formation by their vocation directors, bishops and Can. Brian?
    Everyone (at least among us seminarians here at St. John’s) knows about their past and what they did before they came to Wonersh, so it can’t be a secret neither for their vocation directors, bishops and Can. Brian.
    Two of the “sisters” have also been ordained since they came here.

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    1. Concerned Priest 9th Oct 2019 — 1:48 pm

      Seminarian (now Priest) B, history would be well known by East Anglia diocese. As he was originally kicked out of Oscott for homosexual behaviour and then the Norbertines for similar. Clearly he has something on someone with influence in East Anglia or is in a relationship with them!

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      1. Good heavens! A homosexual in the Norbertines! Whatever next?

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  7. Somebody last week gave a list of seminarians from Clifton at Wonersh – so do we know whether any are left ? Apart from gym-boy, Stephen Findlay-Wilson looks as if he might attract attention there, unwelcome or otherwise. Clifton is a suffragan of Birmingham, so I wonder why they don’t use Oscott – or is there an obvious answer to that one? And who has been arrested and for what? Again maybe this is obvious – I don’t get out much. I imagine Coyle has warned everybody to say nothing on pain of instant dismissal. Go for it, I’d say and do yourself and the entire body of the faithful a favour! Spill!

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    1. The Clifton website isn’t up to date with info about their seminarians more than that they have emoved the seminarian that was arrested:
      https://cliftondiocese.com/vocations/priesthood/
      The gym-boy, SC and SWF are all in Wonersh. JM is on placement, SF was asked to take some “time off”.
      The former vocation director, Fr Matt Anscombe, was a student at Wonersh, and so was the now assisting vocation director Fr Dominic Findlay-Wilson (who is the brother of mentioned SWF)

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  8. To be honest, I’m weary of the homosexual theme that has become as characteristic of this blog as CM’s YouTube channel, hosted by ex-queer 😅, Michelle Voris.
    Isn’t there anything else to blog about?

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    1. I understand, Magna, and you’re right that it shouldn’t be an obsession. The fact is however that it is the key issue in the priesthood and in seminary life. Amongst normal Catholics it isn’t a problem, because they mostly take the same “get real” approach as the rest of society.

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      1. If seminary faculties were grown ups rather than adolescents wearing clerical collars, such abusiveness might not exist. They, however, are a major part of the problem, having been contaminated and inculturated into a sick institutional systemic culture. Where’s the gospel in such places? In books held in the library!

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    2. The homosexualization of the priesthood is a massive problem.

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      1. 7:31 am.
        An understatement, + Pat.

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      2. 7:31
        Why are so many homosexual men drawn to priesthood, particularly in this day and age ?
        It doesn’t make sense considering the Church views homosexuality as gravely disordered.

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      3. You keep saying that like a broken record, but WHY is it a problem?

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      4. You dont think that the church being run like a gay sauna is a problem. 😈

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      5. 7.31: Says he, the queen of all homosexuals. You have contributed to the homosexualisation of your priesthood. What’s the difference?

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  9. This is pure evil.

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    1. 9:58am
      Why do you think it not a problem?

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      1. The problem is not homosexuality per se, but the Church’s twisted attitude to a perfectly normal variation.

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  10. ‘Priestly formation’….Toxic!
    They’ve lost the plot, plus much of their humanity.
    Find some other way to serve the Lord.

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  11. Pat, I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. A dirty sordid lot!!

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  12. Clifton parishioner 9th Oct 2019 — 7:59 am

    Wasn’t there another Clifton seminarian thrown out for supporting the youngster ?

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  13. Clifton parishioner 9th Oct 2019 — 10:35 am

    This post is total rubbish. It’s badly written and obviously an embellishment of the truth! The seminary has huge issues to deal with and Clifton should remove it’s Seminarians until it has been investigated. In regards to the seminarian who has been arrested, he needs pastoral care, not the abuse on this page. Clifton should not drop him like they have done with some of their seminarians and clergy, they should provide some support. Having met some of the current Seminarians for Clifton (one on placement in my parish), they all seem completely wet and have no grasp of real life! I can’t fathom how they would ever be able to deal with challenging situations in a parish! Although, this can probably be said for all seminarians, not just Clifton!

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    1. If Henry has broken the law he will receive justice. If he holds dirt on the toxic activities going on at Wonersh then Clifton had better offer him pastoral care!! Two people were ordained from Wonersh. Both of these guys would have a vested interest in discrediting the evidence. So are you a Clifton parishioner? Come on. Which parish and which seminarian are you saying is wet? Or are you embellishing the truth in an attempt to obfuscate?

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    2. Our Lady of Sorrow 12th Oct 2019 — 5:47 pm

      Clifton parishioners, wonder why he wanted anonymity?
      If you are true show your self or are you spineless?
      At least he should up to the them, those who know, know those who dont dont. Really I dont care who he is.

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  14. The reason suppressed gays are attracted to the priesthood is very simple, at least the subconscious one is. People talk on here like homosexuality isn’t a problem out there in the real world. In fact it continues to be, and gays continue to be targets of violence and hatred.
    The reason gays are attracted to the priesthood is internalised homophobia. Simple.

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    1. Internalised homophobia! Horse manure. This is 2019 not 1919.

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    2. 11.06

      Buy why seminary? Why must a homophobic man enter seminary? There are other such men, even non-Catholics, who express this in other ways, and not even in religious terms,

      Homophobia is undoubtedly one layer in a multi-layered explanation. But there must be something more that appeals here, perhaps even sub-consciously.

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  15. They always hide behind that their task is to find and put forward those men that are the best ones for the church. If it is not in the church’s interest or for the best of the church if you get ordained. Good bye! That’s what they tell you and that is how it should be. But:
    The real reason is that they don’t like your face and look and / or that you threaten the effeminated subculture group they belong to. Straight or gay and in the seminary solely to become a priest because you truly believe you have a vocation to the priesthood? Good bye, We have no use for you! In the seminary to hang out with what you think are the cool guys and live out your hidden sexual fantasies and suppressed sexual orientation? Welcome, YOU are the best one for the church. Can we have a look at that nice bum again? Lovely! That will reduce your formation time with at least one year!

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  16. Not sure where you’re going with this, Clifton Parishioner. What do you think is tosh – the seminarian‘s convincing account? As it is not yet known why an arrest was made, I think it should assumed that it’s something pretty serious, so pastoral care should not entail turning the usual blind eye and moving the offender somewhere else ie the usual procedure. You are however spot on about wet-behind-the-ears types – that’s what you get!

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  17. One observation – this ex seminarian (if that is in fact what he was) can barely write intelligibly and coherently. His written English is atrocious. Is this the educational standard of those accepted into seminaries?

    On the important substantive issue – “Houston we got a problem!“ Dysfunctional formators + unsuitable candidates = disaster for the faithful.

    Gaynooth/Wonersh/Oscott/Alice Hall, etc. SHUT EM ALL DOWN!

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    1. 12;43pm
      Amen.

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  18. I am reminded, reading Laurence Doyle’s account, of little Pauline The Pry-er, Mick “the Extractor” Collins, Fanny Mullaney et al and the antics in Gaynoof.

    Prying Pauline’s fascination with seminarians’ erect penises, wet dreams and masturbatory habits.

    Mick “extracting” admissions of being gay from students.

    Fanny gloriously presiding over Gorgiss Byrne, Horny Andy X, the Trolley Dolly, David Dixie and the whole damn mess!

    God help the Church.

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    1. At least Fanny had some taste – gloriously presiding! That made me laugh. Hasn’t she recently contributed her wisdom and experience to a book on priestly formation? Instead of advising seminarians on how not to give the impression they were gay – how very dare you! – Brenda Coyle might take some tips from Fanny and give up resisting the inevitable. At least Gorgeous was upfront, judging from the nomenclature, it looks as if Horny Andy wasn’t backward in coming forward either. (I’ve forgotten who he actually was – what happened to him? ) Talk about Young divines adding to the gaity of nations!

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    2. Don’t forget the victims of Brenda Marshall :-/

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      1. Pray for Conan, Ronan, David and Sean 😭

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  19. MournemanMichael 9th Oct 2019 — 1:17 pm

    Anon@ 12:43: I agree with your observations on the poor standard of writing, and the subsequent comment about the standards being accepted into seminaries. No matter whatever allowances one makes, the standards seen here inspire no confidence in a broader competence.
    Anon@ 11:48. I agree with your comment on the church’s twisted attitude towards homosexuality, and would go further to say that the whole RC institution is totally screwed up in it’s attitude and dealings with the whole matter of human sexuality. It might, (and I emphasise “might”) be a healthier church if the whole issue of sexuality, that central and fundamental human instinct, became as unremarkable and uncontroversial as not eating meat on Fridays currently has become in contrast to former Irish taboos.
    And yes Magna, I too have become thoroughly bored with the constant repetitious blog focus on homosexuality. And I say that even while acknowledging the shenanigans of hypocrisy and duplicity it creates for the Janus like RC church.
    MMM

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    1. Give the kid a break MMM. Even I find my normally patrician style gets scrambled by text prediction and so on. Let’s concentrate on the content rather than getting our knickers in a twist over dangling participles.

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  20. Pat, are we really expected to accept an anonymous account of Wonersh as the fifth Gospel?

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    1. No. But you are expected to be compassionate and believe victims!

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      1. I think it right, Bishop P., that alleged victims be taken seriously, but this should not mean their accusations being presumed truthful.

        In recent days, I watched on Channel Four News an interview with former Conservative MP, Harvey Proctor. He and others (including former Home Secretary, Lord Leon Brittan) had been accused, by one man, of belonging to a paedophile ring that had murdered children. The accuser alleged that he had been sexually abused by members of the ring. Proctor’s home was subsequently searched by police, and for a full three months afterwards, he was not told even why he was being investigated. The accuser turned out to have been lying, but the psychological strain of this ordeal on Proctor was obvious.

        A subsequent investigation into the police’s handling of the matter was strongly critical of them, especially the presumption that the accuser was telling the truth. There was lack of professional objectivity here, of impartiality by the police, and it took a toll on innocent people.

        Not all accusers are truthful; some, for whatever reason, do lie.

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      2. I think victims should be believed but that this belief be subject to absolute scrutiny by the authorities.

        I think the accused should not be named but step aside pending the outcome of the investigation.

        I agree that there have been many instances of false allegations but that the majority of allegations are truthful.

        No one should be named unless a guilty verdict is brought in by a jury.

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  21. Also a Clifton parishioner 9th Oct 2019 — 4:53 pm

    Lawrence has dyslexia and diapraxia. Would you exclude someone with learning difficulties from the priesthood?
    Get a grip, dyslexia is a problem? But all this other filth mentioned isn’t?

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    1. 4:53pm It doesn’t seem to be considered filth.

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    2. 6.30pm
      False allegations or accusations are common.

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      1. Yes, they are common. And common, too, are the innocent people whose lives are disturbed by them, or destroyed altogether.

        Theoretically at least, there is a presumption of innocence for the accused, but where sexual allegations are concerned (especially in relation to children), this seems to be increasingly, and worryingly, waived.

        It is not right.

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  22. Stop any donations to the chapel refurbishment fund at Wonersh.

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    1. 8:04pm
      You’re right.
      In fact, many innocent people have had their characters, careers and livelihoods destroyed as a result of false allegations. Most of the time, these cases don’t go to court, for a variety of reasons. I’m aware of cases where, due to gross negligence by professionals, innocent individuals have been scapegoated by these professionals, as well as families having been ruined due to professional negligence and incompetence. There’s plenty of unethical amoral arse covering idiots in the professions.

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  23. I agree. And stop any donation to the refurbishment of the student rooms too -all money donated are spent on refurbishment of the staff rooms and apartments plus other things we seminarians don’t benefit from.

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  24. Harry from Halifax 9th Oct 2019 — 5:36 pm

    Bishop Pat
    The best sex I ever had was with a trainee priest from larne, years ago. Still think about it yet. Larnaha Hotel I think it was.

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  25. By sad, Bp Pat, do you mean a sad, immature, queen? It sounds like it to me. He will feel a lot better once he has been plucked.

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  26. As a former student of Wonersh, and now ordained priest of many years, sadly it’s time to close this place. I would appoint the rector / vice rector as 24 hour security guards they might be more useful in this role!

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  27. I went to seminary in near Glasgow and spent 6 years shagging every weekend. Loved it. Left and married 😇

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    1. 7.34: Pure fantasy. You faithless moron.

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  28. If today’s blog is a reliable account of one man’s experience of seminary, it is, to say the least, harrowing. And it underlines the point made here from time to time, by MMM, that some or many of these men, seminarians and priests, appear to have little or no belief in the god they would claim to serve (and, for my own part, underlines that they have even less faith in him). Was Pope Emeritus Benedict right, then? To ban gay applicants from admittance to seminary? Pope Francis clearly thought the ban was justified, since he endorsed a revision of it.

    Are gay men so dysfunctional, not just (according to some) on a sexual level, but in terms of relating appropriately to other human beings ( including, and especially, other males) that they should never be considered for priestly ordination? These popes seem to think so. Is it right, after all then, to consider homosexuality itself ‘intrinsically disordered’?

    My questions here do not imply my agreement with any affirmation of them. But the questions seem inevitable, given the preponderance of largely negative reports of homosexuality and priesthood we’ve become accustomed to.

    There may be well adjusted, gay priests out there. If there are, they are hidden in the deep shadow of these reports. For this, I suppose, no one can blame them for remaining there: with so much negative publicity, who would give them a fair hearing?

    Nevertheless, maybe one of these priests would have the courage to offer to blog here, even anonymously, to present an alternative view of homosexual priests, one that might redress the balance, at least in part.

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  29. Scoop McClean 9th Oct 2019 — 7:55 pm

    Off topic but of interest to some;

    Cardinal Raymond Burke, who serves on the highest court at the Vatican and is the former Archbishop of St. Louis, Mo., denounced the Amazonian synod occuring at the Vatican this week, describing its working document as a “direct attack on the Lordship of Christ.” He added that the synod, along with a pending synod in Germany, is undermining the “catholicity of the Catholic Church.”
    In a September interview with Sohrab Ahmari and published in First Things magazine, Cardinal Burke explained what a synod is supposed to be and how church leaders today are perverting the process to advance heterodox and heretical ideas. “The fundamental concept of a synod was to call together representatives of the clergy and the lay people to see how the Church could more effectively teach and more effectively apply her discipline,” said Burke. “Synods never had anything to do with changing doctrine or with changing discipline.”

    Schism is on the way….

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    1. 7.55
      I believe you may be right, and the biggest part of it will be large swathes of the Catholic Church in America.
      Years ago, I read something (don’t recall its name) containing a prophecy (the fortelling kind), that this church would break away from Rome. And isn’t the spade work for the secession well underway, with extreme conservative rebels, like Church Militant, fomenting doctinal and liturgical division, which could easily, and eventually, turn schismatic?
      That Burke should make such criticism, at such a time, expresses the earnestness of his deep disloyalty to the current papacy.
      This expression of dissent by Burke is perhaps indicative of the greatest ecclesiological faultline in the history of the Church since the Protestant Reformation. It is, I suspect, deeply personal, too: Burke has never forgiven Francis for sidelining him, and his fellow three protesters (of whom two are now dead), over the Dubia they presented to the pope, and a response from him they expected, but did not receive.

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    2. We may have another “Lefebvre” in the making here

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  30. Fly On Th Wall 9th Oct 2019 — 8:24 pm

    Tis a sad state of affairs. When new fellas enter seminary what are they hoping for. I think a reporter type person should follow the process from parish to pillow-sorry- acceptance or rejection and document the journey hi. No point getting the vaccine if ya already had th flu hi

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    1. Hello hi fly.
      Begorra fly it would be easier for a reporter type to get a scoop on the Mafia!
      I’d doubt if new fellas entering seminary are hoping to have their lives ruined.
      Sad to say prevention might be the best cure till the contagion is sorted.
      Good night fly hi.

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  31. Fly On Th Wall 9th Oct 2019 — 9:15 pm

    7.35 Good to know your still out there Always look on th bright side of life🎶 Hi

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    1. 9:15
      Just a spoonful of sugar helps the medicine go down, in a most delightful way. 🎵🎶🎵

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  32. Lol I was going to answer the query you raised about my comment earlier about internalised homophobia but you’ve started an answer.
    I would think (but would not go to the stake for this) that the dysfunctional reasons which attract gay and straight men to priesthood are likely to be basically the same? I would think of fear of women, fear of relationships, lack of identity, fear of adult responsibilities.. I am sure you can also think of lots.
    When I was a Benedictine novice years ago my novice master thought the reason monasteries are full of gay men is God calls gay men and their homosexuality is part of what enables them to live that vocation – he was not meaning sex with the other monks but personality facets which suit gay men to the life.
    I am sure I have read somewhere that gay men often find themselves in ministry or the caring profession because of this having personality traits which help. Unfortunately I have no recollection of where I read this.
    I don’t have any explanation for the homosexualisation and also dysfunction we keep reading about here though, although I think the seminary rector announcing he has been sent there because of his own emotional problems goes a long way to explaining what is happening. That said, I can’t think of a single Catholic clergyman who has the leadership and humility needed effectively to create the next generation. The pursuit of mediocrity is another factor in this shambles.

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  33. Summing all this crap up. We know that one Clifton seminarian has probably been arrested. We know that today’s Clifton guy has been bullied by three queens. We know who two of the queens are. So who is the third little a—h–e? What s–t do these three have on Brian Coyle to command such influence over him? We know some of his damaged background..
    Who has been implicated in Clifton management? How is it that Clifton folded and did not protect this guy? Does Declan have something dark in his history?
    Are there any honest men prepared to stand up and say “Yes” I made a mistake even though it might mean taking a hit.
    Heaven or Hell guys!!!
    You are right MMM all this homo stuff is boring. This is about honesty, morality and decency!

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  34. Look no further than to A&B and you find X the cabin boy

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    1. So lets be clear-this is important. The seminarian was in an ambulance having a cardiac arrest. The ambulance crew were tending to him I assume? In the middle of this a fellow seminarian touched his genitals? If this is true the ambulance crew would have witnessed it. If this was reported to the seminary what happened? it sounds like a safeguarding issue. How has the seminarian involved been allowed to remain in the seminary?
      The seminarian’s grammar is pretty atrocious but I expect St Jean-Marie Vianney was pretty mediocre as well. Thankfully he didn’t become a rector or a bishop.
      Drain the swamp!

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  35. Send old Milly Phrillynickers into that Wonersh place. Old Mill will sort em out. Mgr Millicent was in the Paras you know. Officer class of course. Sorted some of those Paddy peasants out back in the day Yes by jingo! Tally ho!

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  36. oliviamolot@usa.com 10th Oct 2019 — 12:06 am

    How many more predators in a collars, who will have shredded the lives of yet more vulnerable children will result from this clerical masquerade at the Wonersh Seminary?

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  37. How many more predators in a collars, who will have shredded the lives of yet more vulnerable children will result from this clerical masquerade at the Wonersh Seminary?

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  38. Guardian readers may well be interested in this link on the English seminaries and very much Wonersh. It has some brief bio’ on its former Rector, Kevin Haggerty. I understand from sources that as a student himself he was known as ‘Action Man” presumably after the male doll figure so beloved of boys of a certain generation. Like ‘Action Man’ Haggerty used to dress in different “Commando’ style outfits each day- bush camouflage, safari etc etc
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2002/jul/02/religion.highereducation
    Fascinating reading

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  39. This is a truly appalling situation & a terrible story. Clifton Diocese seems to have great problems – eg one priest was in an open ‘relationhip’ with a CofE minister for years & left the priesthood recently, after his partner’s death, proclaiming himself an atheist! His bishops, over the years, had known about his ‘issues’ & done nothing …… Also, I recall a monk of Ramsgate telling a group of us that Fr Coyle had shown problems with discipline &. on at least one occasion, had caned a boy until the blood ran down his legs! So I am not surprised to hear his is a martinet.

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  40. The Clifton diocese is now looking to appoint a new Safeguarding Officer;

    https://www.charityjob.co.uk/jobs/clifton-diocese/safeguarding-co-ordinator/673253

    Surely this is totally unconnected to the reported events at St John’s Seminary Wonersh Guildford Surrey.

    A cynic might assume that the Clifton bishop. Declan Lang is engaged in some damage control here

    I am sure we have not heard the last of this matter

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