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DOES ELSIE NICHOLS “GET IT”.

WHEN I SAY DOES ELSIE NICHOLS GET IT I DO NOT MEAN IF HE GETS HIS END AWAY OR HAVE SEX.

What I mean is does he “get it” when it comes to the sufferings of clerical sex abuse victims/ survivors.

This emerged at yesterday’s IICSA when Elsie Nichols was giving more evidence – this time about Westminster.

At the beginning of the day they were quoting a nun who said some Catholic leaders “get it” and some do not “get it” when it comes to understanding the sufferings of the victims.

The nun was talking about having true EMPATHY for them, truly listening and understanding them.

Elsie confessed that in the past he did not get it, but that now after spending one evening with 20 victims / survivors in Rome last February he now gets it.

And then, during the rest of his evidence he went on to prove that he still does not get it and never will get it.

This was proven by:

1. His constant raising of eyebrows, his grin, him raising his voice at his interlocutor etc that he carried on with all day yesterday.

2. His refusal to meet with A711 to listen to her story and properly apologise.

3. His ignoring of A711’s constant emails to him.

4. The fact that he had not reprimanded his Episcopal vicar for safeguarding Fr Jeremy Trood for referring to A711 as “manipulative, xxx and passive aggressive”

5. The fact that he had not disciplined his chief of safeguarding for using the same terms and for saying that “we have to play the good practice card” – in other words show that they always used good practice when they didn’t.

6. When Nichols himself said that A711 had an unrealistic expectation of people communicating her her.

7. When Nichols refused to criticise the Vatican for not co-operating with the IICSA and instead gave the cynical answer “I am not an expert in international diplomacy law”.

8. Avoiding questions by saying “I am not a canon lawyer”.

9. Arguing about the difference between unacceptable and unforgivable.

Elsie also tried to play the humble / simple man card by not wearing an Episcopal ring and a silver pectoral- not the gold one in the above pic”.

The barrister put it to Elsie that he had sent A711 a terse email. He agreed he had.

MY EMAIL FROM THE IICSA SOLICITOR

Last week I got a letter from the IICSA’s solicitor asking me to remove the name and photograph of the very senior cleric associated with one of the victims the inquiry has heard from.

They said it risked identifying the victim.

Of course I complied immediately.

But, I’m sure the IICSA does not read this blog. So who notified them I had named the very senior cleric I wonder?

One of the RC gang I imagine.

ELSIE NAMES CARDINAL MURPHY O’CONNOR IN NEW STATEMENT TO IICSA

IS NICHOLS BEATING THE IICSA BARRISTER TO THE LINE BY NAMING CMOC HIMSELF ?

HE WILL BE QUESTIONED ON IT TODAY FROM 1 PM TO 2.30 PM.

INTERESTING WATCHING!

https://www.iicsa.org.uk/key-documents/15621/view/CHC002117.pdf


77 replies on “DOES ELSIE NICHOLS “GET IT”.”

A sure hi what is the it that he got or didn’t get. Time for the Philadelphia men to get off the clouds and live in the real world hi

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‘Tis yerself fly hi.
‘Tis suffering fly untold harm suffering even death for so many which could have been prevented. The phillys are so far off the ground there’s no getting back down to terra firma.
Night fly hi.

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As The former British Liberal Party leader Jeremy Thorpe once said in the House of Commons;
“Great love hath no man than to lay down his friends for his life”( Context being Harold Macmillan and the”Night of the Long Knives”)
Just wondering who will Nichols “throw under the bus” so to speak to save himself at Westminster

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Anyone, everyone, including the nun, if it’s a case of maintaining his place in London society and the occasional mention in Hello magazine.

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All bishops/Cardinals even the pope don’t get it. That has been borne out again and again as their indifferent sometimes too callous attitude towards us the victims (abused). They don’t give a damn except money. all the problems that RCC have right up to now showed us that they don’t GET it and will NEVER get it. They RCC don’t give two fecks at all whatsoever. All they care is power and money.
There is one bishop who got it is Bishop D Martin.
Same can be said for Pope Francis even i get excommunicated for criticising him. BUt i dont give a damn about him now cos he is STILL covering it all up.
Started weaning myself off from RCC but i believe in jesus christ but not RCC. Stopped giving money and less and less going to mass as part of weaning myself off from RCC.

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DU: Good luck on your journey of disengagement from the oppressive claustrophobic restrictions of the RCC, and may you find peace and a comforting spirituality as you leave it behind you wallowing in its self absorbed death throes.
MMM

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11.30: MMM : Aren’t you a lively enemy to have? An atheist. Your comments are superfluous to solid, deeply committed Catholics. You’ve chosen to depart from it. Respect those who are loyal to being a member….Your repeated bouts of anti-catholic rhetoric is sickening.

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Thank you for your compassionate concern for our spiritual/mental well being. You well reflect the spirit of our Holy Foundress, Mother Mary Martin, –also MMM.

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DU@12:31am, why leave the church? There’s always been corrupt clergy in the church,(Judas),even Popes.
You are right, in my opinion. Its about power, Money, plus protecting clerical, and hierarchical backsides.
Fight the good fight from within. The church is changing ,not before long, and not imploding.
Wean yourself off milk, onto solid food. (St. Paul)
‘I AM the Bread of Life.’

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Ooh I am so glad he’s decided to take that line, it’s guaranteed to get the enquiry’s back up and go wrong for him. It’s exactly the attitude which has ended up here.
To answer your question: no he doesn’t get it in either way, they both require the ability of actually relating to another person.
Elsie’s people reading this – do make sure you tell him about this comment, won’t you? And tell him I am so pleased he will go down in history as a failure.

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7 Nov 3:17am
AMEN! I know how you feel, it does help the healing process to finally see the fruits of justice beginning to flourish.
God does promise justice, and His promises will be fulfilled – but sometimes we may suffer for a little while, but He always remains true.

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There was a bit of nonsense yesterday from Brian Altman QC. He asked the Cardinal if he were aware that the term “child pornography” was considered to be inappropriate.
Of course the Cardinal looked flummoxed and answered negatively. I too was flummoxed and resorted to Google where amongst thousands of references to that term the only reference to its inappropriacy I was able to find was in the IICSA’ s own site. The explanation given was quite “barmy”. It stated that term suggested that the child could be compliant. Says who? What unnecessary PC rubbish, detrimental to the sadness and seriousness of these cases.
It was another very unpleasant version of “When did you stop beating your wife?” and quite unnecessary as , unfortunately our Cardinal is in no need of trivial entrapment. He manages to reveal more than enough without it.

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This is now his second time where he seems happy to keep admitting failure this could be an annual hearing and the response would be the same which suggests he can’t change and he certainly should have the good grace to resign as a sign of a new beginning for the Church leadership, but he won’t and who could replace him anyway? The Church authorities in England need to stop using the the term ‘the Church’ when they mean specific post holders or leaders, why should ordinary lay people today be tarnished with the same brush as if we wouldn’t use our consciences more than they would.They also need to pay up the time for listening and apologies has past, we know they are sorry and see it as a great evil etc but it’s the accountability that’s the issue.The Church in England needs to sell off some assets, not church buildings like the Bishop of Salford, and pay out to the victims as an act of natural justice not as compensation or hush money. The number of cases they have to deal with cannot be vast as the size of the catholic population of England isn’t that large, within that the number of false allegations must also be small they should appoint a Bishop to oversee directly every abuse case in the country who would have the confidence of secular authorities it’s very simple an accusation is made its passed to the police and all documents are released the case is proved then the Church can agree compensation or the case is without substance and the accused priest or his family are compensated, money is the only issue and the Church should use what it’s got when it’s gone then they will have to declare bankruptcy and start again

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Will Elsie lose the rag? Will anyone, rag on Elsie? Is ragging ongoing?
Find out , tune in, to another riveting episode, of; ‘”Elsie Brought To Book’”…. at a laptop, near you.😳

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I watched quite a bit of Nichols testimony yesterday. It was uncomfortable for him, and it was uncomfortable viewing.
I hold no candle for Nichols,but I have to say that I think a lot of the questioning and a great deal of the supposed outrage about the case that was being forensically examined was contrived. It was the job of the QC do drill down forensically and to make even the simplest answer of Nichols looks as bad as it could be. From my reading of this, the woman concerned probably was a difficult and passive aggressive individual, who wanted to cause as much trouble and difficulty as she could, wanted to get as much attention as she could. especially from Nichols, and would not be satisfied with anybody below him dealing with her, and probably rather relished the time and effort and difficulty she was causing, all of which she could do from a position of anonymity without any fear of consequences. Yes, she probably does have a case that needs answering and looking at, although if it was that bad I would have thought that the best place for her to take that forward was with the Police, but she didn’t want to do that. I wonder why ? I think she probably decided that she could get most leverage and cause the most trouble and gain the most focus on herself by pestering, daily it seems, the Cardinal with emails. Nichols can’t publicly say that. But, I will. There is definitely something very dodgy and needy about this woman and the way she went about getting recognition and justice. I think that even if Nichols had responded in the way the QC was suggesting he should have responded, that is to each email with a ‘sensitive’ reply, this woman would not have been satisfied and would have found other ways to keep the issue on the boil, presumably to feed her own needs for attention. She sounds a damaged woman, and that may well come from her alleged abuse experiences, but I return to the fact that if all of this business was that serious then she should seek recourse from the criminal justice system. Just saying…

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This woman had the Westminster Chancery and Safeguarding people running around dancing attendance on her daily demands. And still she was not satisfied. She probably never will be satisfied. But, because she says she’s been abused, she becomes the victim, and plays it perfectly, causing everybody else to be cast in a bad light, all in her own insatiable desire to be a centre of attention and cause as much noise and trouble as she can. She should take her case to the Police. Why hasn’t she ? Maybe there’s not sufficient in it for them to take an interest ? Maybe she’s a bit of a fantasist ? There is something very odd about her obsessive, compulsive, aggressive behaviour towards Westminster. Maybe she’s lying ? Just because she says she’s a victim, do we absolutely have to believe her without question ? She will be loving every minute of IICSA, I’m sure.

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How do you expect someone who has been abused to behave?
The fact you’re talking like that shows you don’t get it either, unless…
Is that you, your eminence?

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@1249 – Yes, I expect someone who has been abused to behave like her. In other words, like a bunny boiler. She’d damaged, and demands unreasonable attention. That’s her. But that doesn’t mean that she has to have it, does it ? Otherwise, we will be running around appeasing all sorts of victims with unreasonable demands and expectations. The laws of common sense and normal practice have to continue, and not give way to unreasonableness. So, yeah, I get it. She is damaged, and demanding, and unreasonable, and self-focussed, and impossible. It doesn’t mean we have to play up to her, does it ? The whole culture of victimhood has just gone crazy. “I’m a victim, therefore I can do and say what I want, and demand what I want, and you all have to do as I say.” Where is that going to lead us ? That doesn’t mean we deal with victims without compassion and kindness, but it also doesn’t mean we should become idiotically bent to their will and their expectations. Remember, they are damaged. So, often what they demand is damaged as well. Just saying….

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6:38
Yes, I expect a comment like yours is from a senior diocesan cleric.
Generalized, callous, hard hearted, defensive apologist, crap, from a priest.
Remember, this ‘church crisis’ is about criminal abuse by a priests. ( Just sayin, like) 😝

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Does anybody on this blog confirm that sacrament of marriage originate around 1200AD?? if that was the case it would mean 7 sacraments wasn’t there in the 1st place… Something more of evolution Process on part of Rcc. Marriage wasn’t mentioned in the bible correct? Just baptism was mentioned via John the baptist.
RCC is becoming more of a criminal organisation probably evil (no proof) with gay priests coming from seminaries. Remember that RCC is NOT a very honest organisation that includes the pope/cardinal/bishops.
Stop giving them(hierarchy) deference as I no longer do but treat them same as everyone else. Don’t put them on the limelight or pedestal as ir does add to their inflated egos. Don’t shake hands with them just walk away if u see a bishop or a cardinal expecting to see you after mass.
Don’t contribute any monies to your parish or the church at all just pay for their rubbish bins cost. They should be stripped of their charity status via revenue commrs or HM tax offices.

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8.12: I love your hate speech!!! Think you should have stayed in bed a little longer to shake off your hangover. Also, your articulation is appalling…back to college for you…..

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8:12am
The mainstream Christian (and indeed non-Christian religions) understanding of marriage ‘the joining of two to become one flesh’ is
rooted in the book of Genesis – the ministers of the Sacramento of marriage are the two beloved; the priest is there as a witness and to lead the ministers / beloved in tbe sight of God.
But over the centuries the Sacrament of marriage has just become ‘more defined’ if you like.
However, the RCC only introduced celibacy for her priests Circa the 13th Century – but was, for the first 100 or years a ‘trend-like’ idea before becoming more defined (different countries, cultures etc).
In addition, the main reason for the introduction of celibacy was mainly for matters of the RCC withholding responsibilities to the priests’ wives and children – certainly if tbe priest passed away (remember, in them days the man was the breadwinner).
Hope this helps a little.
God bless x
But th

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Pat, who’s the priest wearing the leather jacket in the car with the bunny girl featured in a recent blog? I assume he’s not actually a priest? He looks quite hot……tell me more.

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Go and look at a porn site you moron @8.57am. You dont seem to have the mental capacity to make any serious contribution.

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Pat did you know that Vin Nichols was actually ordained by the Vatican bank bag man : markincus, this explains everything about the career hungry vin Nichols.
His diocese can’t wait to see the back of him. ccmoc was the only Archbishop to get out of that house alive, all the rest died there. Could vin be another to escape?
He is a disaster and I bet Carmel beat him yesterday after he got back to hotel. Did we all see him smirking and raising his eyebrows across the room

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12:21

Markincus, aka “the gorilla”?
Vatican Bank, Calvi , Pope John Paul 1, JP 2 bouncer?
That, Archbishop, Paul Markincus?

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Developing Concern: that woman for all the 4 Seasons. She was interrupted before the big mirror yesterday pm,, wrapped in that red cape/curtin, belting forth: “Wragg Doll”!

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I can’t believe this cardinal is lying through his teeth. What’s going on here, is he under sworn oath?

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He seen these articles before Monday this week. Every scrap of news is collated for him. This is shocking!

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”ONLY GAME IN TOWN”
America
Written by Lewis Anderson, Julie Didier, Casey Kelly
Sung by America from the Album Silent Letter. 1979.
Spectators line the avenue
The players step out right on cue
And every night just seems the same
Nameless faces play their game
The midnight gamblers place their bets
The tight-rope walkers check their nets
Then comes the queen of broken hearts
This is the way it always starts
Finders find love for the evening
Keepers keep the love they’ve found
Losers lose and wind up weeping
But it’s the only game in town
All hail the third string debutante
She tries to act so nonchalant
Chasin’ the prince of alibis
Into a smokescreen made of lies
Finders find love for the evening
Keepers keep the love they’ve found
Losers lose and wind up weeping
But it’s the only game in town
My window looks down on the set
Each night the players strut and fret
So if you’d like to join the rest
Just choose the part that suits you best
Finders find love for the evening
Keepers keep the love they’ve found
Losers lose and wind up weeping
But it’s the only game in town x3

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Bishop Len & The Craggy Crew…
That has just made me howl with laughter. You have put a genuine smile on my face, especially after reading some of the not-so-nice stuff on here.
Light humour is always a good way to lift the heart.
x

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I was abused by a catholic priest and have been dealing with the said ‘church’ for year’s. I can assure you that when asked if they ‘get it’? My personal answer is that they ‘don’t care’!!!! There is no empathy at all. Their reputation and money are all they care about! We’re called liars and mentally ill when we speak out! This is happening today as we speak. I am still being punished by the church for the atrocious act done to me from one of their ‘brothers’ So NO they don’t get it!

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3:02pm
Likewise. That has also been my experience. I was lied to by my bishop.
They don’t care. It is that simple.

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3:02
People traumatized by abuse frequently develop psycho-emotional issues, such as PTSD.
Check out what Fr. Tom Doyle OP, has to say about bishops handling of abuse issues. He would know.

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I watched the Cardinal’s performance this afternoon It is very sad and sobering to realise that when you listen to this man speak you can’t believe a word he says.

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Pat, Mrs. NcAleese has been called on to apologise for suggesting that Pioe Saint John Paul 11 approved of raping by her complete – deliberate I would say – misreading of his Love and Responsibility book. She gave a lecture at Trinity recently where she lost the run of her angry self, lashing out viciously at the Church, priesthood…She did if course forget to tell us that to date she has not handed back any of her state pension which is massive (immoral) and which others have done….Mama McAleese is becoming a sore for everyone with her constant berating if all things Catholic. She wants to be “God”!!!!!

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4.06: Mrs. McAleese shwould realise she has little following except in the We care Church movement. Sadly, she’s overly zealous in a tyrannical, matronly way and puts many people off, people who once admired her. She raises relevant issues but her style is very aggressive and condescending.

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4:06 & 6:56
Ever meet a condescending pompous pontificating arrogant priest? Legion. Some think they can “trump God”.

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There are main priests today who’s general attitude is a contrived, false constant good humour and jokeiness, are there any serious issues they can deal with let alone abuse? Are they trained to behave in a glib manner so people can say how down to earth they are when clearly they’re not ?A priest said at Mass after the sign of the cross “Hi-de-hi” in a northern diocese, email him for advice about surviving abuse

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The not getting it and the not giving a shit echoes Pat’s comments that many clergy don’t really believe. If they did, they should be very scared indeed – and not of IICSA.

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6.38: You are so right. There is a culture of victimhood which destroys the very genuine people who have suffeted horrendous abuse. Too many people are looking for someone or something to hang their life’s traumas on. It can be any of us who are in ministry or teaching or caring professions. I experienced horrible abuse at 15 years of age in the late 60’s: to this day I do not forget it but I survived its lasting, damaging effects, I think! However, I would never dream of being a victim: That is giving the perpetrator, dead or alive, have on-going power over you. It’s not easy. I would never dismiss anyone’s story of abuse but some are playing “victim”. A lady who spent time in Goldenberg told me that at some of the meetings she attended re: Redress Scheme that she was given a script to learn to articulate her victimhood. She refused to engage in this and stood up at the meeting to express her disgust. She received a letter (from the organisers) to tell her not to attend any more meetings. She is a wonderful lady and is a very trusted friend. Yes, she was abused but she could not take part in manipulation of any kind. I wish all survivors every strength for their daily lives and hope they receive the just justice they deserve. .

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I do believe that some victims, like myself, handle their sexual abuse well.

But should we judge those who dont harshly?

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There are many who handle abuse well. It will not be known on this side of the second coming. There are many forms of abuse, including those who suffer because of abuse of power or someone’s standing. These people are often misunderstood. No one ought to be judged if they have been mistreated.

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7;11
Everyone’s experience of abuse is different. Everyone’s experience of trauma is different.
Each abusive situation is unique. Individuals process the experience differently.
Don’t generalize from the particular.
Maybe people expected more from clergy, in terms of integrity, compassion, truth and justice.
There has been a very serious betrayal of trust.
Now, frequently, individuals are re-traumatized when they come forward.
It’s very obvious, the Church hierarchy fails to practice what it preaches, as do many in the priesthood.

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Vincent Nichols is a snake given his evidence today at the IICSA. I watched the entire episode. He tried to spin the blame back on Egan and Doyle. He made subtle digs about them. The QC wasn’t having any of that and Vincent was chastened. Good! He came across as glib, bombastic, on the defensive and showed his teeth and claws. He had obviously taken notes from his media advisers since yesterday’s showdown. He is brazen and will not let the past few days faze him and will come out fighting like a gunslinger in some wild west saloon. However, his credibility has taken a major nose dive within his own diocese and beyond. Rome has been monitoring this inquiry very closely and they won’t hesitate to throw Vin under a bus. In the meantime, Vinny will be trying to throw others under the bus nearer to home, we seen today how he tried to do just that with two fellow bishops. He won’t stop at that.

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“DIDJA EVER”
(from “G.I. Blues” soundtrack)
Written by Sid Wayne and Sherman Edwards Sung by Elvis Presley 1960

Didja’ ever Didja’ ever get Didja’ ever get one Didja’ ever get one of them
Didja’ ever get one of them days, boy Didja’ ever get one of them days
When nothin’ is right from mornin’ till night
Didja’ ever get one of them days Didja’ ever get one of them days
Ya get up in the morning and turn the shower on
You’re gettin’ pneumonia, the hot water is gone
Freezin’ sneezin’
You wanna dry your back, a well
Didja’ ever get one of them days
When there’s no towel on the rack
Didja’ ever Didja’ ever get Didja’ ever get one Didja’ ever get one of them
Didja’ ever get one of them girls, boys Didja’ ever get one of them girls
Who’s awful nice
But cold as ice
Didja’ ever get one of them girls, yeah Didja’ ever get one of them girls
Yeah! Girls, girls, girls, girls, girls, girls, girls, girls
You’re at a drive-in movie
With a cute brunette
A countin’ on the kisses that you figure to get
Closer, closer, then she hollers ho!
Didja’ ever get one of them girls
Who just wants to watch the show
Show, show, show, show, show, show, show, show
Didja’ ever Didja’ ever get Didja’ ever get one
Didja’ ever get one of them Didja’ ever get one of them days, boy
Didja’ ever get one of them days
When nothin’ is right
From mornin’ to night
Didja’ ever get one of them days, boy Didja’ ever get one of them days
You’re on a Sunday picnic
And then it starts to pour
You run through poison ivy, scratch until you’re sore
Ants come dancin’, carry off the bread
Didja’ ever get one of them days
When you should a-stayed in bed
Didja’ ever Didja’ ever get Didja’ ever get one Didja’ ever get one of them

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I went to the Inquiry today. It was a chastening experience to watch a Cardinal pour scorn on his fellow bishops and I am afraid to say play fast and loose with the truth (no one in the room believed the nonsense about only reading the article 3 days ago; it was embarrassing.)

At the end as his servant priest rushed to retrieve the archepiscopal briefcase; the woman in the row ahead of me was visibly upset by what she had heard, the Cardinal looked at her with curiosity and then left without a word. No need for the Cardinal to wait until December to meet the victim she was there all along and he knew it.

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SO much better though to protect the hierarchy who think they are the church! How dare these attention seeking complainants object to God’s will? I will give them absolution and they can feck off! How dare they complain. They should have kept their knickers on! Come Lord Jesus set us free from these interlopers!

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Pat, This Bishop Len Loony reproducing songs on the blog is beyond tedious. Totally tedious. What’s the logic to this? I wouldn’t be surprised if people turn off this blog as a result. Think on.

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I totally agree with Anon 9.19, and think you too, +Pat, should also “skip it and bin it.”
MMM

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I totally agree with 9.19pm. How can we skip it as you suggest? It is makes a mockery of your blog. Enough said.

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Bishop Pat I agree with your analysis;

Nichols whole tone is very very third-hand. All very euphemistic
Here’s a few suggestions to the tone-deaf Cardinal;

“…the events that have given rise….”
better as
“…the evil things that we did…”

“… of wrongs by members of the Catholic clergy
“…child rapes and sexual assaults by priests and religious”

“The children affected…”
better as
“The children raped and assaulted…”

“…whenever any suspicions arose.”
better as
“…whenever we heard about the rapes and assaults and totally refused to listen.”

“…we recognise the shame brought upon us.”
better as
“…we are ashamed.”

“…the causes and recognition of abuse…”
better as
“…the prevalence of paedophile clergy and the fact that numerous people told us about it for years…”

I genuinely believe that Cardinal Nichols” really does not understand, or chooses not to understand, what actually happened.

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