FORMER PRESIDENT OF IRELAND Mary McAleese has said she believes the Catholic priesthood is based around “a fundamental lie”.

BY: Harry Brent The Irish Post November 04, 2019

Speaking at a conference in Trinity College Dublin (TCD) on Saturday, where she now works as Chancellor, McAleese suggested that those attracted to priesthood within the Church have “deeply problematic” sexualities because those who aren’t heterosexual are told and expected to pretend to be.
She referenced the time she spent in Rome, studying for a doctorate in canon law, where she witnessed many dysfunctional young seminarians and priests, according to the Irish Independent.

“I became very much aware of the dysfunction at the heart of seminary life and the dysfunction at the heart of much of the priesthood,” said McAleese.
“The number of fake-hetero misogynistic homophobic gays I met frightened me. The homophobia of people who are gay is a lie – it is a vicious lie. But they live it and in living it, apart from making themselves miserable, they also make a lot of other people miserable.”
She added that as pastors, “their capacity for dispersing misery is really immense. That worries me greatly.”
McAleese also said that the practice of excluding women from priesthood was a harmful “invention” of the Church and would soon be eradicated, much like the construct the church invented for using castrati up to 1917, in order to prevent women singing in church choirs.
The conference, called ‘Women the Vatican Couldn’t Silence’, saw a number of theologians and religious figures attend, including Sr Joan Chittister, a Benedictine nun and American theologian.

untitled_42.jpg

Sr Chittister, who was threatened with excommunication in 2001 over her attendance in Ireland of the first conference of Women’s Ordination Worldwide (WOW) said women’s role in the church today is “invisible” and that the catholic church “is a wholly owned subsidiarity of pious males”.

PAT SAYS

I have not been a great fan of Mary McAleese.

However, she hits the nail on the head with this piece.

The RC priesthood is a very very dysfunctional body at present.

You have actively gay men, involved in internet and sauna sex, putting on collars one day a week and condemning homosexuality.

You have seminaries which are basically gay knocking shops.

And all this wile continuing to exclude women from ordination and the exercise of authority.

And also continuing to allow men to marry.

Which is more serious – a promiscuous gay priesthood or a priesthood containing men who are in loving marriages and the fathers of children?

Anyway, the emperors clothes are already off and the priesthood as we know it is dying.

130 thoughts on “FORMER PRESIDENT OF IRELAND Mary McAleese has said she believes the Catholic priesthood is based around “a fundamental lie”.

  1. VENI SANCTE SPIRITUS

    Like

    1. Mary McAleese has hit on something that has been evident for decades. She describes it perfectly. There is a dysfunction, self-denying, self-loathing latent homosexuality in the clergy culture, which manifests itself by transference, and is seen by virulent and hateful homophobia, whilst at the same time covering some very questionable behaviours by these same clergy. It is alive and kicking in vast swathes of the clergy, and it is inculcated in young seminarians from the very beginning. The clerical culture is toxic and self-destructive, as well as being destructive of the whole Church. She is right to have put her finger on a crucial dysfunction at the heart of priesthood. And, it is so obvious. Every time I hear a Catholic priest going on about homosexuality and the sins of the flesh, I know that the priest is himself terribly conflicted and self-loathing, and his only way of trying to reconcile all of the conflicting issues in his life is to transfer that self-loathing on to ‘others’, and in particular on to groups and individuals who are vulnerable, and very often on to members of the LGBTQ community, as well as focusing on women who have abortions, politicians who don’t take a black and white line on abortion, on those whose lifestyles don’t conform perfectly to the Roman Catholic Church’s teaching, on anybody who does not fit in to the artificial conservative, right wing, traditionalist, moralistic lifestyle that they have made for themselves, out of the necessity of self-denial. They are unwell, unbalanced, dysfunctional, and dangerous to themselves and to others. And all this goes on while, for the most part, they are playing out a parallel life which is precisely the sort of lifestyle and sexuality that they condemn. What more sick than that can you get ? KOB was a perfect example. There are many others. I know them. I challenge them. And they don’t like it. But, many of us have rumbled this matter, and it is only a matter of time before the priesthood collapses in on itself.

      Like

      1. 1:00pm
        Great Post.👍

        Like

      2. You really need to get over this KOB obsession. Move on. Is this not dysfunctional on your part.

        Like

      3. 1.00
        First-class post.

        Like

      4. I have never heard a Catholic priest talking about homosexuality or the sins of the flesh, this is a fantasy on your part. The only priest of whom I had personal knowledge and who was an abuser was Fr Jack McCabe of St Michael’s College Enniskillen and he was an arch-liberal, anything goes preacher and teacher.

        Like

      5. Of course, closet gays are not confined to the Catholic church, even in ordinary day-to-day life when you come across a closet case they are invariable nasty, vindictive queens prone to jealousy and spreading rumours and lies, especially about other gay guys who are just getting on with their lives and enjoying themselves.

        Like

      6. Cardinals Cocopalmerio, Tobin, McCarrick, Hume, CMOC, O’Mahoney, Paglia were all liberals and gay, or abusers and or enablers of abusers. Nothing traddy about them. And as for Bergoglio!

        Like

      7. Cardinal Tobin, with his live-in Italian actor and “nighty-night, baby, I love you” is a fine example and he is a Francis appointee.

        Like

      8. MournemanMichael 6th Nov 2019 — 9:52 pm

        An excellent comment saying clearly and comprehensively what perceptive observers of the RC institution have known for some time. It is regrettable that many others are so unaware. All the more reason to maintain the publicity.
        MMM

        Like

  2. Ireland needs hero’s 6th Nov 2019 — 11:59 am

    Pat no problem with the gist of the arguement at all.

    Issue with McAlease, once a good solid president. Now a national embarrassment. I think someone needs to check her medication because it’s obvious something is wrong with her.

    Ever since the marriage equality ref and in support of her son Justin she has gone rogue. Fair enough issues needs to be mentioned and spoken about. However she should remember she was a former president and not disgrace the country by her actions in support of her son.

    She should lie down and get off the stage now. Her tenure has finished. Her job now is to attend state events with her mouth shut.

    Like

    1. 11.59.
      So you would prefer Mary acted like the catholic hierarchy
      Cover up and shut up.

      Like

      1. 1:55
        Ha ha ha…. That’s exactly what a lot of them want.Cover up and shut up.

        Like

      2. 11.59
        I was just about to say similar.
        With one stirring addition: try telling ANY mother not to be open in support of her son and walking away unscathed.

        Like

  3. Anonymous Angelicus 6th Nov 2019 — 12:02 pm

    Pathos.com
    Article by Rebecca Bratten.
    4th November 2019.
    Apparently, Mrs. McAlesse highlighted a quotation from Pope John Paul II’s text ‘Love and Responsibility’ which stated that in the act of sex in a marriage, the woman ” is a comparatively passive partner whose function it is to accept and experience. For the purpose of the sexual act it is enough for her to be passive and unresisting , so much so that it can even take place without her volition while she is in a state in which she has no awareness at all of what is happening – for instance when she is asleep or unconscious.” Apparently, Mrs. McAlesse, noted that the late Irish theologian, Fr. Sean Fagan, who was censured by the Vatican, had questioned Pope John Paul II on this saying it sounded like rape. “What happened? Pope John Paul becomes a saint. Sean Fagan was silenced. That’s our church” said Professor McAlesse.

    Like

    1. 12.02
      I can’t believe what I’ve just read in your post.
      Are you sure that is an actual and accurate quotation from that document?

      Like

      1. Anonymous Angelicus 6th Nov 2019 — 4:35 pm

        2:54
        MC, google pathos.com. Article is titled ‘ Is there a fundamental flaw in the Institutional church’s approach to sex ethics ? By Rebecca Bratten.

        Like

    2. What a wonderful woman she is, thank you 12.02

      Like

    3. Sean Fagan was a heretic and an athiest.

      Like

      1. 4:46
        How do you know?

        Like

      2. I liked Sean Fagan. He was very badly treated.

        Like

      3. Anonymous Angelicus 6th Nov 2019 — 5:38 pm

        What Happened to Sean Fagan? By Angela Hanley.

        From the Association of Catholic Priests website associationofcatholicpriests.ie

        In 2001, Irish moral theologian Seán Fagan SM wrote an article for Doctrine & Life in which he called spiritual abuse ”a moral disease that has affected the Church for centuries”. He names it as ”an abuse of power and authority, and not simply the result of ignorance”.
        By the time Seán Fagan died in 2016, he himself had suffered the full force of that shameful form of abuse from the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith. Some of the harsh punishment and humiliation Seán was subjected to was known at the time, but much remained hidden, shrouded in secrecy under threat of further punitive action.
        Theologian Angela Hanley has now brought into the open some of the darker side to the CDF ‘s treatment of Seán, as well as showing us the humanity and pastoral sensitivity of the man who was her friend and mentor. It is somewhat ironical that Cardinal William Levada who, as head of the CDF, led the inquisitorial process against Seán Fagan, just died last week. As the book makes clear, his own record on shielding clerical child abusers is shameful. His treatment of theologians like Seán is equally appalling. I note that little of that has been acknowledged in recent obituaries.
        I was interested to read that what I had suspected was actually the reality: the CDF employee dealing with Seán Fagan’s dossier was Charles Brown, later appointed nuncio to Ireland, no doubt on foot of his record on silencing Irish priests…
        Of course Cardinal Levada and Charles Brown, to add insult to injury, never dealt with Seán Fagan directly, only through his Marist superiors and also by putting pressure on the Irish bishops.
        It is a great credit to Angela Hanley that she is able to write about such painful matters in a clear, measured and informative way. Under her pen Seán Fagan is given back the spirituality, humanity and dignity which the CDF had sought to deny him. His lifetime pastoral dedication to lifting burdens from people’s backs is given proper recognition.
        Anyone thinking that this abusive treatment is all in the past should think twice. In a short but powerful foreword Mary McAleese warns us we cannot be complacent: ”The Church under Francis has deliberately and almost unremarked, slipped backwards in its relationship with UN human rights treaties monitoring bodies.” As guest speaker at the launch of the book next Thursday, we can expect her to elaborate further on this disturbing reality.
        This important book deserves a very wide readership. I found it a painful read, because of the unjust and cruel treatment meted out to Seán, an elderly, sick man. But I also found it a very inspiring read because, in spite of all the crushing darkness, Seán’s spirit shines through brightly, the spirit of a courageous and faithful disciple of Christ.
        Seán used to say to me ‘‘We will survive”, to which I would reply ”We will do more than survive, we will flourish!”
        I have no doubt Seán is now flourishing in Heaven, after contributing so much to the flourishing of so many through his friendships and writings.
        In his preface to the book, Gabriel Daly OSA writes about Angela Hanley that ”Posterity will thank her for her solicitude and skill”. Indeed.
        Go and find out ”What Happened to Fr Seán Fagan?” and be enlightened.

        Soline Humbert

        Responses;

        5. Iggy O Donovan
        October 6th, 2019 at 11:02 pm
        I purchased Angela’s book on Sean Fagan at the ACP gathering in DCU on Saturday. I read it at a single sitting. It beggars belief. How the Lord can speak through such corruption and injustice defies credance. Levada, Charlie Brown, CDF. Is the Church beyond reform.

        Like

      4. Dear 4:46 pm.

        And you are a liar and a stirrer. Legally, it’s not possible to defame the dead. Morally, you have just done so.

        Now for the interesting part. Substantiate either or preferably, both of your claims. Refer the reader to a text which will witness to your base and vile lie.

        Like

      5. 4.46, ‘heretic’ and ‘atheist’ being relative terms, your comment is essentially meaningless, in the wider context – though I do agree full-on with 8.27

        Like

  4. “… putting on collars one day a week and condemning homosexuality.”
    KOB was, of course, the most notorious example, Bp Pat, but has there been much condemnation of late from the pulpit pooves in UK and ROI? I wonder.

    Like

  5. Pat what ever happened to Tim Bartlett remember his name mentioned here on chance of being a bishop? Where did that go wrong

    Like

  6. Of course you’d believe Mary NcAleese. Any commentary that criticises and condemns the church suits your agenda. While I agree with much of McAleese’s analysis, I find her to be a hypocrite and totally insincere. During her 1st term as President she came to our parish for a major celebration. She was treated royally by the Catholic community and she in turned wafted eloquently about the wonderful leadership of the parish team, about all things Catholic, about the great work and dedication of priests and religious, singling us out partucularly. This same Mary attended thousands of similar Church events and was very grateful for the platform given to her to garner the Catholic vote for her time in office. She never opened her mouth once in protest about any issues she may have dusagreed with. She did not then have any agenda against the Church, marvelling frequently about its wonderful contribution to society. She has every right to express her opinions but her passive aggressive, almost vindictive manner of her words about Church teaching is bordering on fanatical. She is a clever woman but I think she should find some more useful project to expend her energy on. If she continues to condescend, ridicule and insult clerics and religious and Pope Francis, she will end up achieving nothing by way of renewal, which is what we all desire. Her angry face looking out over ger glasses do no favours for her arguments.

    Like

    1. 12:40pm – spot on! And a big part of her problem is that she craves the fawning adulation she once received and her viperish nastiness is because she is no longer centre stage. Thus her need to rant and rave from the wings.
      She’s pathetic really but a certain clientele – and the likes of the Irish Times subsets – will relish her every pronouncement.
      As someone said earlier – a total wagon – a loud mouthed fishwife.

      Like

    2. 12:40
      Naive. It was a political race for the Aras.

      Like

    3. 12.40
      As President, she was meant to be uncontroversial, so she could hardly have made those criticisms at the time.

      Like

      1. 2.57: Magna, she loved the catholic, garden tea parties. Milked them for every ounce of publicity. Yes, she had to be circumspect about her opinions but I believe she is far too erratic, bitchy and condescending to deserve respect for her present views. That aside, I believe that the Church and priesthood and their very relevance have been so undermined by the sexual abuse scandals that it is imperative, an emergency, that we refind a new way of being the people of God, a new way of being a Catholic Christian community. The present module is breaking bit by bit. I cannot for now reimagine or envision how we rebuild and renew. Like many priests I too despair but we must stay focused on the present tasks we are responsible for. I cannot walk away from being a chairperson of a school board: it’s impossible to get a non cleric for the task: I cannot walk away from officiating at 2 forthcoming weddings and 2 funerals in the next 3 days: I cannot simply not say mass every day because it’s expected in the parish: I cannot go out in protest and take time out to seriously rediscover and rediscern priesthood and “church”. I try to involve as many parishioners in meaningful ways but the expectation to be imaginary and more visionary is almost impossible. Many of us feel the loss of support we once had, we are depleted of energy and if you are in an ageing parish, as I am, you can have 4/5 funerals per week….and officiating at family situations is difficult as you must treat each totally differently. I have no aversion to constructive, helpful criticisms but I have to be honest and say, the constant harsh, condemnatory and negative criticisms are spirirually and mentally destructive. If I was in my 40’s I would reconsider an alternative profession but i’m in my early 70’s and feel any good I may have done or anything worthwhile achieved in ministry are completely undone and consigned to a dustbin.

        Like

    4. Oh dear Father. Don’t take on so…..eat your dinner…..there’s a good fellow!

      Like

      1. Father is exhausted by a couple of weddings and a handful of funerals. Poor thing.

        Like

    5. All argumenta ad homina at 12:40.
      Critique her arguments instead of criticising her person.

      Like

      1. Argumenta ad hominem that should be.

        Like

  7. She’s a complete and utter wagon

    Like

    1. 1:38pm

      There’s plenty of complete and utter hypocritical B*****Ks among the episcopate.

      Like

    2. 5:32
      Get off the fence good priests, collectivelly organize and challenge the corruption within the Church.
      ‘He who is not with me is against me….’Luke 11:23

      Like

      1. 6.28: I do not sit on the fence..If I did I’d be dead by now…morally, spiritually and emotionally. I survive because of my desire for God through prayer and a belief in the person and reality of Jesus Christ. I am not a moaner: never was but a realist who always struggled with what I discerned as a clericalism I didn’t sign up to. I do what I believe Jesus wants me to do and whenever manageable and right for the good of others, I respond appropriately. When an institution is demoralised, on its knees, crumbling at the centre, I have to return to the wellspring of hope- Jesus. What else can a 74 year old do?

        Like

    3. Ditto yourself. What are you afraid of @1:38?

      Like

  8. Pat while I was waiting for comments today and the mention of Timmy Bartlett. Time took me back to the good old days of the blog. The juicy maynooth days, can you give us a blog update on where there all are now. It would be nice to remember them in November.

    Like

    1. Timmy hasn’t had a minute since he became Adm of St Mary’s and the dying inner city parish, with only a few streets of elderly, infirm and non practising parishioners, has been set aflame.
      Even the four assistants, who have been appointed to help Timmy carry the heavy burdens of St Mary’s are no help to him at all such is the daily clamour for his personal touch.
      Well thank God he’s doing at last what he always wanted – getting his hands dirty and his feet sore as he clambers up and down, up and down, up and down, upsies downsies, the sheer coal face of pastoral ministry. He’s getting quite a good nose bouquet around him of the sheep too.

      Like

      1. No harm. More bouquet the merrier.

        Like

    2. A new November list?

      Like

  9. Mary McAleese and gay son summed up to a tee
    https://youtu.be/ifUQq5p5i2g

    Liked by 1 person

    1. 😂😂😂 definitely her!

      Like

    2. 2.36: Brilliant. That Mary one is lost and is missing the limelght after 14 years. She does not have a huge following, except her behind!! She is a dragon. Since leaving the Aras, she is morphing into an angry, screachy auld one. Thank God she cut her hair for the Late Late tribute to Gay. Herself and Darcy should elope…..

      Like

      1. Never liked the woman bloody horrible president never should have it only bertie ahern shafted albert reynolds

        Like

  10. Joseph Lollard 6th Nov 2019 — 2:43 pm

    Off-topic but Cardinal Nichols is at IICSA giving evidence now.

    Like

    1. …and he is being skewered, it is very uncomfortable viewing…..some of it a little bit unfair, I think….but he is having to put up with some very difficult questioning….the QC is drilling down to minute detail…..

      Like

      1. 3:57
        Will I tell you what’s unfair.
        Being a victim of clerical abuse, which is subsequently covered up by those in positions of authority in the Church. So much for charity, truth and justice.

        Like

    2. Thanks Joe for this.

      Like

    3. On Nichols;

      The Guardian reports on the Cardinal and his behaviour in these crimes;

      https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/nov/06/i-failed-archbishop-agrees-he-shut-out-victim-hears-inquiry

      I quote emails shown to the inquiry between Fr Jeremy Trood, Nichols private secretary and Peter Houghton , the chair of the Westminster archdiocesan safeguarding commission

      The inquiry was shown emails in which the woman was described by officials as “passive aggressive”. Fr Jeremy Trood, a priest in Westminster, wrote to Peter Houghton, the chair of the diocesan safeguarding commission, saying: “This woman is deeply manipulative.”

      In reply, the inquiry was told, Houghton wrote: “Agreed. We need to keep playing the good practice card if we are to contain this person’s manipulative behaviour.”

      Indeed the “Good Practice Card is a useful default position for devious manipulative cynics such as Cardinal Nichols, Fr. Jeremy Trood his private secretary and peter Houghton the chair of the Westminster Safeguarding Commission

      It does not get as nasty as this; Victimise the victim over and over again

      Like

      1. Get your facts correct. Fr Trood was never the Private Secretary. He was responsible for safeguarding. Even the Guardian never made this mistaken claim.

        Like

      2. To Anonymous at 9.55pm
        A thought
        Such a response parallels the Roman Church response;
        Misdirect through pedantry

        Like

    4. Hey, Vinnie comes across well, doesn’t he?

      Like

  11. Hope he gets a roasting

    Like

    1. 3:29
      Yeah. So many documents are circulating nothing gets done.
      Endless waffle shops. Dragging feet in the hope victims/survivors literally, die off?

      Like

    2. Insurance companies driving the agenda/ church response?

      Like

    3. I quite agree with NatLog at 10:13pm. In fact Father Jeremy Trood was in a more senior position as diocesan Chancellor. What is known about him? If he is not ex Anglican, he certainly looks like one – Oxford educated, by any chance? He was certainly savvy enough about his career not to rattle Elsie by signing any more petitions, though he did sign a notorious letter to the Daily Telegraph in 2013 drawn up by the clerical great and good – and not so good, I fear – warning the British people about the dangers of allowing homosexuals to get married rather than, as good Catholics, getting themselves ordained.

      Like

  12. I entirely agree: a superb post at 1:00 pm, though I would say you are too generous in assuming that priests are necessarily self-loathing when it comes to managing, say, a Grindr lifestyle alongside their fondness for tradition and an intransigent public attitude on sexual morality. A good number practise a cognitive dissonance whereby they do both without much difficulty, so Father who impresses old maids of either sex in his French cuffs and biretta is equally at home in a leather bar. The real damage, though is to his integrity – one might say to his soul – and to the Church he represents, as public awareness of what really goes on has been transformed forever from the days when Cardinal Spellman is said to have remarked that nobody would ever have believed it.
    Like Magna I am gobsmacked by the claim by 12:02 pm concerning the late Polish saint’s views on women and the sexual act. However, it does fit in with the whole creepy world of his Theology of the Body, which is nonsense in almost every respect. For me it was liberating to realize that the Church teaches nonsense concerning human sexuality. Its only self-justification is the belief that her authority and claim to certainty would be undermined by an apparent change of mind, so, as always with the RCC, everything comes down to power and control. The priesthood is bust, and the Church with it. Need we really lament that? Is Ireland for instance not a better place now that the whole Catholic memory is fading – and far more rapidly than anyone could have imagined? Are we not just growing up and moving on?

    Like

    1. 4:17
      Good post, 👍

      Like

    2. Grindr priest McCamley and Coyle were and are liberal priests, the very opposite of being traditionalalists.

      Like

      1. In what way is Rory Coyle liberal? Has he spoken or acted sympathetically with regard to women, gays or divorcees in the Church. Has he supported marriage equality or changes in the abortion laws? The fact that he got himself ordained to represent an institution that regards homosexuals as intrinsically disordered was not the action of a liberal or progressive. He then led a life which was at odds with his declared public position; whether he favoured Latin or sported a biretta are beside the point.

        Like

      2. Wrong observation…coyle came across as a strict traditionist.

        Like

  13. They ran out of time so he is back again tomorrow. This afternoon he received a right roasting.

    Like

    1. Back again tomorrow? Goodness.

      Like

  14. That John Kenny priest from the West looks quite dishy. Just saying like!!!!! He’d certainly keep me happy.

    Like

    1. Hands off, he’s not the marrying type.

      Like

  15. Did they ask about Carmel the real cardinal

    Like

    1. A victim of CSA?

      Like

  16. I liked Sean Fagan. He was very badly treated.

    Like

    1. An understatement. Appalling. N

      Like

    2. Sean Fagan didn’t do a day’s work in his life, he was fed, watered and housed all his life by a Church he seemed to hate and he obviously thought the vow of obedience was for others.
      That whole ACP generation (Iggy, Darcy, most of the Reds and SJs and semi-detached diocesans such as Fat Joe in Ballymun) are on the way out, to be replaced by younger orthodox clergy.

      Like

      1. God help us!

        Like

      2. Younger orthodox clergy ….my bloody arse!
        Still recovering from nappy rash the lot of them.

        Like

  17. Excellent comment at 5.32pm.
    I believe your honest, open and considerate reflection on how your have experienced the Church needs a greater discussion.
    I felt there was a depth to the level sharing that you offered in your post.

    Like

    1. I agree that 5:32pm was another excellent comment today. I would tell the priest to carry on as you are, as you are undoubtedly doing some good, and people like me will still carry on alongside you, as I don’t see any point in quitting now – I’m not a priest incidentally just the old twat at the back. I don’t, however, think we have anything to pass on. Many of the young are kinder, far more tolerant and at ease with themselves and the world around them than we are or ever were. They do not lack spirituality just because they rarely if ever attend Mass, and, as even I am bored shitless most of the time in Church, they are more likely to be repelled rather than attracted – for all the reasons which are articulated daily on this blog.

      Like

      1. What a counsel of despair. You sound like that enabler Bishop Joe Duffy who said the Church will “do for our day”.

        The failure of the white-haired Massgoers to pass on the Faith will earn them many strokes of the lash. The young ones rejoice in abortion. That’s not very spiritual and it’s certainly not Catholic.

        Like

  18. I could tell you things about some of the priests who signed the petition in favour of traditional sexual and marital morality and got threatened by Elsie…

    Like

    1. Yes, those lists are always eye-popping for the sheer brazen hypocrisy of many who sign them. I would suggest that next time one comes out, the whole list of names is posted on this blog and we can then share notes on what is actually known about Father.

      Like

      1. Well the list is here
        https://catholicherald.co.uk/news/2015/03/24/nearly-500-priests-in-england-and-wales-urge-synod-to-stand-firm-on-communion-for-the-remarried/
        Gregory Chillman for a start appears in the Carlyle report about Ealing Abbey.

        Like

  19. Magna Carta's Mum 6th Nov 2019 — 6:10 pm

    Magna darling, it’s so nice to read your tribute to my love and support for you, which have always been so strong. In fact the psychologist particularly commented on our relationship. ‘Enmeshed,’ I think was the word he used.

    Like

  20. 5.32 I also enjoyed your comment. It sure can be difficult at times to remain in ministry especially in a changed church and a changed society. I would encourage you not to lose heart on the positive and healthy way that you have influenced and inspired other people, especially members of your congregation who are experiencing or experienced difficult moments in their lives.
    Sounds like some self-care and maybe a short break would do you the world of good. I hope you will have a restful evening.

    Like

    1. Pat, what became of Fr Chris Maxwell-Stewart, who is another major failure by Kieran Conry and CMOC?

      Like

      1. Dont know. Maybe a reader knows?

        Like

      2. Chris Maxwell-Stewart went AWOL years ago. Conry’s fault really but Cormac was blamed.

        Gregory Chilman OSB, menioned earlier, was mad for the drink.

        Like

      3. Arundel and Brighton yet again moves centre stage
        Refer readers to this from Damian Thompson of the media publication The Spectator
        https://twitter.com/holysmoke/status/1189183875949285377
        Stephen Bernard an academic was for years subject to rape and sexual abuse by one of the priests senior clerics Canon Dermod Fogarty; Who happens to be interred at St John’s Seminary Wonersh- where he was on staff for many years
        He ends with the need to ask Wright and Moth further questions. You bet there is a need to ask these people questions
        Arundel and Brighton Safeguarding Officer Philip Wright is subject to ferocious criticism. Is he still employed by A and B? Has its Bishop Richard Moth done a hatchet job?
        As for Maxwell Stewart he can consider himself very very fortunate not to have been successfully prosecuted. In the days when Murphy O Connor was the A and B bishop he saw fit to appoint Maxwell Stewart to the Leatherhead Surrey parish succeeding the paedophile priest Dermot Keaveney-
        That parish had a continuous 10 year run of priests of this type

        Like

  21. She is correct but for entirely different reasons
    The Fundamental lie is the claim that an itinerant Galilean Jew called Yeshua physically rose from the dead.
    That is the fundamental lie upon which Christianity turns

    Like

    1. 7:03 pm.
      There is nothing more certain than the resurrection of Jesus by God the Father. Believe it.

      Like

    2. MournemanMichael 6th Nov 2019 — 10:21 pm

      NatLog: I entirely agree.
      MMM

      Like

      1. Anon @8:43pm : I entirely agree.

        Like

  22. What’s this news about 2 nuns going to Africa and coming back pregnant ?

    Like

    1. Guess!

      Like

    2. One claims natural the other claims supernatural.

      Like

  23. Why is mournful Mary akways moaning and groaning? With all her pensions she must have a bulging building society passbook.

    https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/mcaleese-kept-all-of-her-141k-pension-29617049.html

    Like

    1. Because 8.31 she never stopped educating herself.
      She is not mournful..she is serious.
      Life is not always about money.
      Grab a few books yourself and learn something youdidnt at school.

      Like

      1. MournemanMichael 6th Nov 2019 — 10:36 pm

        Good observation @ 8.43. Understanding and knowledge is an ongoing process, and more so for those of an intelligent enquiring mind.
        MMM

        Like

  24. Clerics, is the Catholic priesthood based around a fundamental lie?
    Any big boys with brains to challenge Prof. McAlesse.

    Like

    1. 8.40
      Mary never spoke a truer word.

      Like

    2. You don’t need any brains when it comes to tackling McAleese.

      Like

      1. Nitwit.

        Like

  25. Hear the latest? Uncle Ted McCarrick is believed to have millions of dollars in bank accounts in an Island in the Caribbean. He’s being minded just in case he spills the beans on the other boyos up to no good. No wonder the investigation is taking so long.

    Like

  26. Dalriada Dick 6th Nov 2019 — 9:49 pm

    Well Pat,
    Here I am sitting on the big new chair. It’s a really comfy Parker Knoll job. And I have a glass of the black stuff close at hand.
    Anyway reading today’s comments from Mary and all the responses has me in fits of laughter with everybody getting their knickers in a twist.
    Folks should understand something I learned a long time ago. That the Catholic Church is a man made political institution, whose misogynistic hierarchy are obsessed with the control of it’s adherents. It wants their money, ties to control their education, is obsessed with sexual matters and the protection of its considerable assets. Its continual cultivation of the belief that the church has a monopoly on the Jesus franchise dupes he faithful into believing that strict adherence to its rules and filling its coffers enhances ones chances of entry through the Pearly Gates. Bunkum!
    Nothing, and I mean nothing, must be allowed to threaten its financial well being. Hence all the coverups of the abuse scandals and the filing for bankruptcy in many dioceses, particularly in the USA.
    All this silly Theology of the Body stuff from JP2 is the biggest load of bs I’ve probably ever heard. Although it will be a measure of comfort for catholic men to know if they give the wife one, even if she objects, it’s ok cos the Polish Papa says it’s fine by him.
    The RC church doesn’t want to give an inch. Behind closed doors it’s executives ( College of Cardinals) must cringe at the thought of having to appear “ ecumenical” towards it’s ‘separated brethren’ while it quietly peddles the old line that god doesn’t hate Protestants but he prefers Catholics!
    The quicker people learn that the best way to live is by following the Golden Rule. Do onto others as you would wish done onto you.
    By doing so it might well prevent people, like many of today’s contributors, from getting hot under the collar and falling to enjoy life on life’s terms.
    Anyway, Pat, hope you and all the regulars are well.

    Like

    1. MournemanMichael 6th Nov 2019 — 10:27 pm

      DD: I’m VERY well, and all the more so after reading your deliciously accurate spot on comment.
      Thank you, and enjoy your BB.
      MMM

      Like

    2. 9.49: Think you’ve had too much vino or whiskey – but enjoy your life…let the rest of us live with our God in peace.

      Like

  27. Fly on Th Wall 6th Nov 2019 — 9:53 pm

    Holy Mary mother a muddles hi.Is this the wan who is the pope’s best friend or was that Dana The priesthood is not based on a lie but a church that’s based around a worship of St William D’ testicle who appears to have a higher profile than the Lord himself hi. Fader shouldn’t drink Fader shouldn’t swear. Fader should decommission said Willie. Where’s the spirituality in that hi. Not a mention of God. Many Irish people go with the flow of the church because they don’t know what to say not caus they are stupid. They took the animals from the circus now take the schyte from the church and let the Spirit do His Work

    Like

    1. Good night fly hi@ 9:53PM.
      Begorra fly which papa for which wan. Can’t keep up with the wans and papas.
      Fly…St. William D ‘ testicle with his golden Wiliie worshippers are ruling the roost.
      Birds of a feather flocking together warbling to an old tune on a second hand fiddle.
      The Spirt will sort em before very long.
      Bye bye fly hi.

      Like

  28. Thanks for the reminder at 7:36pm of institutionalized hypocrisy: 500 brave priests say no to contraception and yes to keeping remarried divorcees from contaminating the sacraments. Their own lives must be models of heroic sanctity and especially chastity to be so sure in their condemnation of others. So we have Gregory Chillman OSB whom terrified school boys remember as a violent alcoholic. He was on restricted ministry when he signed that absurd petition as unfit to go anywhere near boys again, but he still trumpets his unswerving allegiance to policies which cause misery to faithful Catholics who don’t have a well-heeled monastery to support them through their mistakes. And what did happen to the “Very” Rev Daniel Seward who was always so sure and pleased with himself as Provost of the Oxford Oratory? A very hasty departure to obscurity in York, but why was that I wonder. Did his unswerving loyalty to timeless truth slip for a moment one night? And then there are other familiar names ….

    Like

    1. I was a “houseman” in Ealing Abbey in the 1990s. The housemen were unmarried laymen who lived in houses owned by the abbey in return for being skivvies in the abbey. The monks lived in some style and were waited on hand, foot and finger. It was like Upstairs, Downstairs.

      The monstrous Fr David Pearce was in his pomp then and very snobby about the Irish. The ICSA inquiry website has lots about Ealing.

      Gregory Chillman was an ill-tempered, foul-mouthed Scottish alcoholic who had been headmaster of the senior school for less than a year in the 1980s. He was hated by the other monks and by the lay staff.

      Soper the Abbott wafted about with a pious air, despite having been a perve and a sadist in the school and later an “on the run”.

      Rossiter, who had been abbott of Ealing before becoming titular head of the EBC was novice master. The novitiate and juniorate in those days was populated by handsome young men.

      Like

  29. 9:28
    I’m NOT suggesting abandoning the wellspring of hope- Jesus. Quite the opposite. I’m suggesting you along with like-minded colleagues, challenge the hierarchy. Enough is Enough. Time for catholics, priests and laity, to growth up. The Church is riddled with criminal moral corruption. The Gospel of life, has been the kiss of death, for so many, through clerical abuse, corruption and cover up. My life, as a survivor, is as precious to me, as the life of any pope, bishop,priest or religious. I’m as precious in the eyes of the Lord as any one else. I’m as much a member of the church, through baptism, as any pope. Now, I’m not putting up with hierarchical patronising or platitudes, or lies, or empty insincere words. You have no idea of what I’ve had to deal with in my life due to f***** working on behalf of the hierarchy. I’m Christian despite the clergy! Fed, watered,sheltered, educated, Bullshit! Moral cowards trying to bat for an institution that the Lord is cleansing like never before. They have their reward now. And, I’ll stand up to ANYONE, regardless, as to what position they hold, so outraged am I, at the hypocrisy rampant in the hierarchy.
    I couldn’t give a stuff!
    It’s only warming up. Raphoe, bring it on!

    Like

    1. + Pat, the matter I mentioned re the college connection to Raphoe.
      There’s also a connection to Liverpool. Nexus.

      Like

      1. 11:15pm

        Follow up.

        Forget to mention…
        Liverpool back in the day. Won’t say what year.
        That would be telling.
        Hazard a guess?

        Like

    2. 10.16: I have some idea of how you feel but I guess there’s no arguing in any rational manner with you as you seem to have a lot of anger. I hope you can find the strength you need for your life. My opinions seem irrelevant to you. Your “bring it on” threatening words sound far too aggressive….but good luck.

      Like

      1. 11:27pm
        You have absolutely no idea of how I feel.
        You couldn’t know how I feel. Ever hear of righteous indignation?
        Watch the Finne documentary on TG4 to learn how Bishops handled Fr. Eugene Greene.
        Shameful bunch.

        Like

      2. 11:27
        ‘but good luck’….What ever happened to God Bless?

        Like

  30. To the priest who thinks he has a lot of funerals and weddings.your over 70, so what.
    I’m over 80, maybe you need to walk everyday for 30 minutes, you and Pat and the fellow who thinks some of us shouldn’t receive holy communion. Carrying too much weight seems to be a priestly thing, none can look after your well-being only you.
    Give up the school thing, u are not needed there, most teens dont bother with church and believe it or not should a teen girl get pregnant these days, she keeps her child. No shame now.
    A funeral is just a mass and 10 minutes at a graveside, maybe a free dinner and drink, neither of which you need.
    A wedding is something similar, relatives clean the chapel and mostly assist you.
    Now stop moaning and live each day tothe full, life is far too short.Enjoy.

    Like

    1. 11.09: Your comment is frivolous and ignorant. It misses the seriiys essence of the arguments being made. You obviously haven’t a clue what you’re talking about, you aged old fool. I think you should go to confession…..

      Like

    2. MournemanMichael 6th Nov 2019 — 11:57 pm

      11:09: You make a serious point despite LJ and 11:17’s derisive ageist comments.
      Thank you.
      MMM

      Like

  31. Lollipop Josie 6th Nov 2019 — 11:23 pm

    11.09: I hope you’re not an auld granny or grand-dad: you’d have a disastrous effect on grandchildren. You should be strapped into your cot!! Whoever you are, you’re very THICK…

    Like

  32. Love your replys.lol.i go dancing walking swimming and driving most days.
    Some on here eat too much and don’t move.just look how that lovely Fr mccaffery turned out as he aged.
    Age is just a number and being over 70 does not mean u are over the hill.just look how our ex president keeps herself up todate on all things ecclesiastical.good that I have riled you lot up enough to make you jump up and down with indignation.

    Like

  33. 11:17& 11:23
    Go powder your nose, fix your skirt, then suck another lollipop. Ignorant abusive comments, Josie, trying to sound pseudo-intellectual. Hope your not having a disastrous effect on anyone. Take your own advice, off to confession, like a good girl. 😜

    Like

  34. A funeral is just a Mass and ten minutes at the grave? Technically I suppose you’re right, but there is the time you spend giving pastoral care to the family before and after the funeral. Although I it is a huge privilege, it can also be emotionally draining. I wouldn’t change my life for the world. So 11.09 I’m afraid you’ve got it wrong.

    Like

    1. Good for you rev, but I know for a fact that most priests do not step inside the family home after a funeral.

      Like

  35. Mary McAleese is a wonderful example of what can be achieved in this nation. A woman of integrity, honour and compassion

    Like

  36. McAleese was up the Church’s hole until her son came out of the closet with his homosexuality and then she led the attack becasue it suited her!
    Go get a life McAleese, few care about your values or what you think, a little like Buckley anything for a small bit of attention!

    Like

    1. God bless Mary.

      Like

  37. 5.32, here am I to be imaginary and visionary for you.
    (I) It should be understood an ordained priest is free to leave the priesthood in good (if he wants) odour when he wants, not being in fact “for ever of the order of Melchizedek” which SURELY is not EVEN a “catholic” interpretation of scripture. I know of one such who did, to the huge pleasure and approval of all.
    (ii) St Paul told his flocks not to go to communion lightly, if at all, and I think the fad of Liguori and of JP II and of the otherwise exemplary Pius X, for “frequent” communion, which all sorts of people consequently consider themselves “entitled” for perhaps slim reasons, is a bad thing. Whilst Jesus did allude to it I think we shall never know, any more, what He meant so we should look at what is ACTUAL communion at the personal relationship level (including outside nuclear families). This will take the intensity out of the concept of priest and his “powers”, which distorts their own as well as all of our outlook.
    Note I am NOT (like some of you) advocating twice the clericalism, namely women in frocks as well as men! Also, whilst sexual mores are a giveaway, my proposed system will treat it with better tact.

    Like

Leave a Reply to Anonymous Cancel reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out /  Change )

Google photo

You are commenting using your Google account. Log Out /  Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out /  Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out /  Change )

Connecting to %s

%d bloggers like this:
search previous next tag category expand menu location phone mail time cart zoom edit close