Categories
Uncategorized

Coronavirus indulgences evoke Francis’ ‘ridiculously-pardoning’ church

A CORONAVIRUS THOUGHT

Blessed is he who expects nothing, for he shall never be disappointed.

Alexander PopeDeuteronomy 31:6 Be strong and courageous. Do not fear or be in dread of them, for it is the Lord your God who goes with you. He will not leave you or forsake you.

Mar 26, 2020 by Joshua J. McElwee NCR

ROME — Announcement of the Vatican’s offering of new plenary indulgences to those around the world affected by the coronavirus may have left some Catholics asking, “We still do that?

“The answer is yes. And theologians say the move, made in a March 20 decree from the apostolic penitentiary, shows a seemingly unprecedented level of pastoral care for those who suffer from the virus — especially those who may die in isolation without being able to receive final rites.

Jesuit Fr. James Corkery, an Irish theologian at the Pontifical Gregorian University, said the decree fits with Pope Francis’ vision for a “merciful, welcoming, ‘ridiculously-pardoning’ church.

“He wants people to be ‘received back,’ to be forgiven, above all to be loved,” said Corkery, who has written extensively on the church after the Second Vatican Council.

In Catholic teaching, an indulgence is the remission of the eventual punishment due for sins that have been confessed and forgiven. A plenary indulgence, which can only be granted in various ways outlined by the Vatican, involves the remission of all of a person’s eventual punishment.

The penitentiary’s new decree offers special plenary indulgences to any Catholic affected by the virus, to health care workers and their families, to those who pray for the end of the epidemic, and to those who die without access to the sacramentsFor those in the first three categories, the indulgence can be obtained if the person is sorry for their sins and prayerfully watches a celebration of the Mass, a recitation of the rosary, a practice of the Via Crucis, or some other devotion.

For persons near death from the virus and unable to receive the sacraments because of isolation measures, the decree says they can obtain the indulgence “at the point of death, as long as they have recited some prayers during their life.

“Jeremy Wilkins, a theologian at Boston College, said he sees “something new” in the offering to those who are dying.”The conditions there are waived. It says … the church fulfills the conditions for you,” said the theologian. “That’s quite amazing.”

“It really is tender,” said Wilkins, who has focused his work in the areas of Christology and grace. “I think the church very tenderly wants to say, ‘Be sorry for your sins, and know that you’re not alone, and it will be OK.’ “Jesuit Fr. Peter Folan, a theologian at Georgetown University, said he found the decree’s treatment of the dying “especially moving.”

“There’s just a deep theology behind that, and just a deep understanding of who God is, that God doesn’t ever turn God’s gaze away from anybody, especially those at that most important event of their life, which is our death,” said Folan.Both Wilkins and Folan said that it appeared that the penitentiary had two primary objectives in offering the new indulgences: to show mercy to Catholics facing a severe time of trial, and to encourage them to think of their suffering in relation to that endured by Christ, and all the saints who have come before us.Said Wilkins: “The over-riding thing is that it’s an attempt to find a way to say, ‘You’re not alone in your suffering. Your suffering is not meaningless. And it’s not solitary. Because it actually fits into this great mystery of the suffering of Christ on behalf of his church, and the suffering of all the members on behalf of one another.’ “Folan, who has focused his work in sacramental theology, said an indulgence tells those it is offered to, and the wider church, that “there’s something about what these people are experiencing now that’s integrating their lives more fully to be like the life of Christ.”

“Those who are infected with the virus, their families, remind us that they’re configured with Christ, who suffered, and who witnessed suffering,” said the U.S. Jesuit. “Health care workers are configured to him in the sense that he too was a healer.”Corkery said indulgences are ultimately about “a generous remission of sin.”

“Indulgences, in the hands of Francis, must be seen in the context of his dream of a loving, merciful, pardoning, welcoming church,” said the Irish Jesuit.”Older people who still have fears about dying and not being in the ‘state of grace,’ about dying without divine forgiveness because — even though they are repentant — they haven’t been able to confess their sins, could be greatly helped by what Francis is seeking to do for them, for us all,” he said.Follow him on Twitter: @joshjmac.]

PAT SAYSI have very serious misgivings about all this indulgences thing.

Surely, when God forgives, He forgets?When God has forgiven why is there “punishment due”?

Is God’s forgiveness not final?Why does God need any pope, bishop or priest to “extend” his forgiveness or complete it in some way?

This medieval doctrine is harmful, outdated and, quite frankly, a laugh.

BUY VENTILATOR

https://www.gofundme.com/f/buy-nhs-a-ventilator?sharetype=teams&member=4025250&utm_medium=copy_link&utm_source=customer&utm_campaign=p_na+share-sheet&pc_code=ot_co_dashboard_a&rcid=493ab2b545d04ac1a7515312439256a2

MASS FROM THE ORATORY TOMORROR 12 NOON

http://fb.me/revpatbuckley

75 replies on “Coronavirus indulgences evoke Francis’ ‘ridiculously-pardoning’ church”

Pat, if you honestly believe that you need help. We all know why you were excommunicated and it was your OWN behaviour which led to it. No one to blame but yourself. Take some self responsibility for once in your life.

Like

11.14
Don’t you find it odd that Jesus never invoked any juridical penalty against Judas Iscariot, even though he knew Judas’ disbelief, and imminent treachery?

Like

While many are earnestly praying for comfort, as offered by Pope Francis for CATHOLICS, The Buck Boy incites rudicule, mockery and hate. You’d have been in good company with the crucifiers of Jesus at Calvary. You are demonic. An empty shell. Devoid of Christ.

Like

Why are some Irish priests and bishops regulars on EWTN and others not? Is it linked to Opus Dei or another organization?

Like

2.42
They’re on because they toe EWTN’s highly orthodox theological line. Crucial to this is an absolute inability to think critically and independently, and an uncommon ability to smile constantly, and inanely, while expressing the most pedestrian drivel you can imagine.
The Irish clerics are singularly gifted in these respects. 😀

Like

You’re absolutely right, +Pat. It’s a medieval doctrine. It’s harmful,and outdated and,all it does is give Protestants, a laugh.
But here’s the theology behind it – https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treasury_of_merit#Treasury_of_the_Church
How can any Christian believe that? The Bible tells us that, “the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord”. So it’s a FREE GIFT and a FREE GIFT doesn’t have any strings attached.

Like

And nobody ever seems to get that the point of indulgences is that they were to be in place of the temporal punishment for sin, they are not some ticket to heaven.

Like

What’s a Plenary Indulgence then?
The Roman Catholic Church claims that an indulgence is “a way to reduce the amount of punishment one has to undergo for sins” – ‘the amount of punishment’ being Temporal Punishment, that is the length of time in Purgatory.
The Catechism of the Catholic Church describes an indulgence as “a remission before God of the temporal punishment due to sins whose guilt has already been forgiven, which the faithful Christian who is duly disposed gains under certain prescribed conditions through the action of the Church which, as the minister of redemption, dispenses and applies with authority the treasury of the satisfactions of Christ and all of the saints”.
It’s all Bunkum. If you know, fear, love,serve and obey the Living God, The Blessed Trinity, and believe and trust in the Son, Jesus, as your Saviour then Jesus has paid ALL your debt, not just a part – the guilt and also the punishment.

Like

No. Temporal punishment was never in reference to purgatory. They started as a means of transferring the time (hence temporal) from a penance in this life to a devotional act. For example if the temporal punishment for a sin was, say, a pilgrimage, the indulgenced act took the time (say 300 days) off the pilgrimage. A plenary indulgence would take off all the temporal punishment but not any time off purgatory.
Can I just point out that my original point was that this has always been generally misunderstood?

Liked by 1 person

My favourite hymn, because it cuts to the heart of personal relationship with God: absolute confidence in a friend and father who is there for each of us who trust in him, not as a remote and inaccessible abstact concept, but as a person still very much involved with the world, and with the problems faced daily by his children there.

Like

Anonymoussays: – 28th Mar 2020 at 11:05 am wrote –
No. Temporal punishment was never in reference to purgatory … A plenary indulgence would take off all the temporal punishment but not any time off purgatory.
……………..

Please see the NewAdvent Catholic Encyclopedia – ” Purgatory (Lat., “purgare”, to make clean, to purify) in accordance with Catholic teaching is a place or condition of temporal punishment”. And that’s been Catholic doctrin for hundreds of years; certainly since the time of Pope Leo X. That’s what triggered Luther’s protests and the Reformation..

Like

8.04
You first need to explain ‘temporal punishment for sin’. This is misunderstood by many as God’s being vindictive.
I have my own ideas on this motion, though I prefer the word ‘consequences’ over ‘punishment’, because the latter has subliminal meaning which can only be harmful to personal relationship with God.
I hope that you will respond. This is a serious post, because the topic itself is serious.

Like

And I must apologise that I have created a confusion – I was making the point that indulgences started as being time taken from penances in this life. When I said that the temporal punishment was not with reference to purgatory I meant only as far as indulgences were concerned.
I was contrasting this with the misunderstanding that indulgences were time off from purgatory.
Magna – I absolutely take your point about this being seen as God being vindictive. This would be worsened if you associate the authority giving you a penance with the authority of God. My own opinion is that this whole thing is rather pointless, because to me the whole point of a consequence in this life is that it is not God giving it!
I am far more bothered by the approach that these penances can somehow wipe out sin, and the rather extreme example I would use is of child abuse, and the offender may feel forgiven but the consequences literally continue life long for the target.

Like

1.50

Thanks for responding.

Your points intrigue me and one in particular puzzles me: your suggestion that remission of temporal punishment due for personal sin (canonical penances imposed in sacramental confession) did not mean, especially in the case of plenary indulgence, an avoidance of Purgatory. If this is so, then you appear to be saying that the experience of Purgatory is for other reasons and that sin, therefore, carries not one but two types of punishment: the first being canonical; the second imposed by God himself.

Like

Yes, Magna, that’s exactly what I’m saying and that is how I understand indulgences started. I understand their meaning to have drifted as time went on…

Like

Ah, and I see I did get it wrong – temporal punishment applies to both this life and purgatory. Mea culpa.
How long must it be since anyone has totted up the time and applied their indulgences to the Holy souls?

Like

2.59

Thank you for your post

You know more than I about the early history of indulgences.

I know that in the immediate pre-Reformation Church the Papal legate to the German states who quizzed Martin Luther, the Dominican Cardinal Cajetan, did believe that remission here had an effect in Purgatory, albeit an indeterminate one. But most theologians believed that both punitive consequences for sin, canonical and divine, were remitted by plenary indulgence. This means that theological opinion was unanimous in believing that plenary indulgence did indeed apply to Purgatory ; it was just the extent and degree of application that was in dispute.

Given this, you must be thinking of an earlier time. Is this so?

Like

Buckley, you need prayers. You are anathema to CHRIST. You once dedicated go keeping CHRIST’S MEMORY SSCRED….A ince noble ideal but now you smash to pieces the SACRED NME OF JESUS through your bitterness, jealousy, hatred, vengeance and nastiness. You have revealed your religious, miral andcspueirual irrelevance in.thisvtime if trial and suffering in our country. When people ask for bread, you produce stones, for fish, a scorpion, for hope, you give despair, for light, you give darkness. Disgraceful offerings of vitriol and poison. God bless your puny mind and deeply selfish heart. You present a distorted, disordered version of Christianity, one that’s all about you, you, you.

Like

No he didn’t, but as you know Pat, the Cathbots identify Holy Mother Church with God, hence it can do no wrong and anything not so identified is automatically Satanic. These are exactly the type of Catholics who would happily let a priest abuse their child then defend the Bishop for moving the priest on so he could abuse elsewhere.

Like

There are Catholic who would willingly hand over their child to a priest to abuse and regard it as a great privilege that “Father” chose their child.

Like

“You present a distorted, disordered version of Christianity, one that’s all about you, you, you”
………………………………………
Those words would have been more appropriate if addressed to Frankie.

Like

It all sounds very nice. But, for those of us who have semi-detached ourselves (and been pushed out of the Church) from the institutional Church but retained our faith in a loving and good God, I think we have already worked out for ourselves that we can commend ourselves in sorrow and penitence to the undoubted love and forgiveness of God. We don’t need Pope Francis or some Penitentiary to tell us this. If people do need to be told this and reassured, it is only because they have been kept in infantile dependence on the Church and never encouraged to develop a personal theology of God and his goodness, which we have consistently been told has to be mediated and channelled through the Church and its functionaries. That is a mechanism of dependance and control, which works wonderfully to the advantage of the Church and clerics. Surprise, surprise !!

I would be more heartened if Pope Francis were able to take this opportunity to throw open his arms and the arms of the Church and welcome all those who historically, and for very dubious theological and so called moral reasons, have been kept at arms’ length and told that they are ‘loved’ but definitely not welcome – eople of different sexuality and lifestyle; those in so called ‘irregular’ relationships; those who have been distanced from the Church because they dare to think differently theologically and express that in their writing and speaking; women who have consistently been treated as second class citizens. The list could go on and on. Remember, also, that all this distancing of people from God’s love and the Church’s welcome and acceptance has been taking place at a time when the clergy themselves have been shown to be far, far worse and sinful in their behaviour and culture than any of the groups I have mentioned ! But they still have the arrogance and the gall to condemn others.

I’d take more interest in this ‘gesture’ of the Pope and the Church if they were to open their hearts, minds, welcome and acceptance to those of us who have been pushed in to semi-detachment because of the Church’s painful intransigence and exclusion clauses. In the meantime, I rely on a loving and merciful God that I know, and do not need the Church to mediate and channel his presence to me, thank you very much !

Like

The phrase ‘ridiculously pardoning’, in relation to the Church, is very revealing… of the Magisterium’ self-attributed role as the sole and authoritative steward on Earth of God’s grace, including his power to forgive sin. In this mindset, the Church has, over the centuries, conceived extraordinary theological notions and made doctrines of them, including that of Limbo. Some of these, notably the teaching on Limbo, have been sidelined, without fanfare, and, indeed, without apology for the psychical suffering inflicted on people, and on families, by erroneous teaching which reduced God’s mercy and love to the Church’s impoverished spiritual and intellectual understanding of them.
As regards indulgences, their doctrinal evolution in Church history is not without theological controversy (theologians were not in unanimous agreement about their nature, even about their very legality), nor without defiance to dissenting politics of various times, including those of Wycliffe, Huss, and the Reformers. In a move more self-defensive than theologically assured , the Church reacted to these moments by declaring indulgences a doctrine of the Faith, purely on the ground that their de facto existence was being questioned.
According to Karl Rahner S. J., all magisterial declarations on indulgences, with the exception of those by the Council of Trent, ‘are not irreformable decisions and… are often the echo of a theology which is not in all respects… a strictly binding character.’
I’ll allow Dismas’ death perhaps the last word on indulgences: Jesus pardoned him on the Cross and promised him Paradise that very day… without any mention of a detour through Purgatory first.

Liked by 1 person

11.02: That MOURNEY MAISIE from the MOUNTAINS itching with indignation again…stay indoors OAP…and MYOB….or STFU…Stop bothering the world..

Like

Off-topic temporarily, to those of you who scoffed at my more relaxed attitude to the Coronavirus pandemic and to my suggestions about its handling, know that the Russians are doing precisely what I advised about the elderly: ORDERING over 65-year-olds to stay indoors, for their own safety, instead of ordering the entire country to do so. 😀

Like

I never said you did.

And those young deaths were of people with underlying health problems. I included these in my suggestion that governments should have ordered into isolation, instead of entire populations, social categories at higher risk of developing secondary complications through Covid-19.

Like

Joseph: How can I watch this in UK? Will it be on some local channel here, or if online can you guide us please?
Thanks
MMM

Like

Sorry, MM, I don’t know myself.
But given that ABC decided to include these new allegations against the Cardinal in this TV series it’s likely that they’re credible.

But note well, please, that I’m describing the allegations as CREDIBLE – which is very different from saying that they are true.

Like

Hello again, MM.
In the Twitter video which I posted at 12.45am the man who says at 33 seconds along, “We had to respect his right to silence”, is Rev Fr Brian Lucas.
He was involved in many of the Church’s paedophile cover-ups; before becoming a priest he’d been a barrister.
Fr Lucas is the subject of this old video; it includes a clip of another barrister saying that Fr Lucas should be prosecuted.

https://www.abc.net.au/7.30/father-brian-lucas-admits-neglect-in-case-of/7859778

Like

10.59: For God’s sake Magna, get off this stage. You are tiresome, argumentative, confusing people, trying to deliberately provoke and have no respect for others. You are one big bore. You are repeating all your crap that you’ve posted since 17th March.

Like

12.53: Margaret Dearie, what else will you do at my command? How about giving me your famed massages but without your poison! Sorry I won’t offer you any drink….

Like

12.41: You’re right – Sweden does not have enough priests or seminarians to- it doesn’t require them as There are plenty of reckless hetheros or crazy, irresponsible gays like you to spread various viruses. What might your virus be, apart from a diminished and delinquent brain?

Like

Anybody got or seen a copy of Nichols’ letter to the retired priests of Westminster telling them they are on their own now and can rely on Universal Credit rather than on the pension scheme and diocese they have worked for for their whole lives ? it would be good if somebody posted a copy so that we could see what he has said.

Like

I thought Pope Francis couldn’t behave any more stupidly and irresponsibly, but at Mass on Saturday in his Santa Marta residence, he encouraged his priests to continue administering the sacraments to people, even in the midst of Corona virus pandemic. Those who criticise s who caution against this he effectively described as Pharisees, whereas those who encourage it or participate in it he effectively described as the people of God.
It is time this fool joined Benedict in retirement, where he can do at least less harm.

Like

Bp Pat, what’s this letter Elsie is supposed to have sent to all the ontological-soiled-senior-citizens in Archdiocese of Westminster? Should we know about it.

Like

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out /  Change )

Google photo

You are commenting using your Google account. Log Out /  Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out /  Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out /  Change )

Connecting to %s