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THE HOMOSEXUALISATION AND HOMOEROTISATION OF THE ROMAN CATHOLIC PRIESTHOOD.

Over the past twenty or thirty years I have watched the Catholic priesthood go from being a very mixed bag of men to becoming an almost exclusively gay profession.

And this development is very bad.

When I was in seminary between 1970 and 1976 homosexuality was hardly ever whispered about in the seminary.

Clonliffe Seminary in Dublin had 120 seminarians there in my time. There was a little homosexuality happening but it was rare and well below the surface.

In St John’s Waterford from 1973 to 1976 it was even less common and I was only aware of one active homosexual. I became aware of because he came on to me. I rushed in panic to discuss it with my spiritual director and nothing happened.

As a young priest I was “hit on” by two older priests and a monastic abbot. I did not respond to their overtures- mainly because I saw it as a big sin that would lead me away from God and damage, if not destroy, my priesthood.

I am not saying that my repression was either good or healthy. But it did teach me how to say “NO” to myself and to situations I could not handle.

There has to be a place in all our moral lives for saying “NO”.

How have we gone from a situation in which seminarians struggled with themselves to practice celibacy and chastity to where we are today – with seminaries being little better than gay saunas?

There have been changes to culture and religion.

1. The more sexually liberal society.
2. The fall off in belief and church attendance leading to the ignoring of religious rules and dogmas.
3. The fact that more people are more educated than before.
4. The cultural changes that facilitate younger people having sex earlier in life.

There are others I’m sure.

Of course there was too much emphasis on sexual sins in the past.

But now, at least as far as seminaries are concerned, the pendulum has swung the other way.

Many seminaries are just hotbeds of orgiastic gay sexuality.

We must have Christian ideals when it comes to sex.

Sex should never be used to exploit, abuse or use.

Ideally sex and love should always be connected.

I dont think that, for a Christian, there is just recreational sex.

I’m not saying that we all live up to that ideal ALL the time.

But we should be trying to.

The fact that the priesthood has become homosexualised and homoeroticised is NOT good.

Sex, like many things, can become an addiction.

Many current priests and seminarians are full blown sex addicts.

Addicts often end up doing great harm to themselves and others.

People like JP, Gorgeous, Rory, McCamley are sex addicts.

Addiction requires recognition, compassion and treatment.

Did you know that alongside AA for alcoholics there is SA for sex addicts.

There are branches of SA all over Ireland and the UK.

85 replies on “THE HOMOSEXUALISATION AND HOMOEROTISATION OF THE ROMAN CATHOLIC PRIESTHOOD.”

The problem I have with your
Take on Celibates not having to live sexually unselfishly all the time is, if they want to indulge
and a Parishioner is approaching them with the assumption of
Sexual safety and Celibate service…. They can be destroyed. If a Celibate is out of bounds, he needs to be demoted and corrected. Personally, let’s stop wrecking people and Optionlize Celibacy.

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Begorra Sex Anonymous I believe in the day there were glory holes that people could use in certain establishments. The Church has become like an Easter Egg with no sweets. I can see how it can attract a certain denomination of gay men. Sad thing is that the name of God is being used as a brand but the mission of Jesus is sidelined by some. Let’s play mass dear. Genuine people are left frustrated and angry. Let’s hope the Spirit drops by after the lockdown hi

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”an almost exclusively gay profession.And this development is very bad’

so gay men can’t enter a profession because this makes it a bad thing. would you listen to yourself.

HOMOPHOBE

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I have no problem with gay men being priests. I have a problem with gay seminarians and priests having rampant and irresponsible sex lives in saunas and seducing everyone they can get their hands on.

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Hi Pat,

You can’t have it both ways. It is either completely wrong to be gay and active or it is not. You seem to suggest that people can be active inasmuch as they live up to YOUR standard of what YOU deem to be an acceptable level of sexual activity.

By all accounts, you had a varied sexual history yourself. Trial and error. Fun and mistakes. This can all be explained and put down to youthful hijinks. I know you are older and settled now but I think it is wrong for you to “Christianise“ gay relationships. This only gives credence to the fact that sex in inherently wrong and sinful. You are also saying it can only be done under certain strict circumstances.

You leave no room for young men such as seminarians to explore their sexuality. You leave no room for them to figure out what they like and what they don’t like. You leave no room for them to make mistakes.

To be honest, what I see in your post today is a man who is still conflicted when it comes to gay sex. It almost appears that you are saying “it was fine for me to do these things but it is not ok for others” and not only that “I will publicly expose all who do”. This is an inherently hypocritical position.

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I am not trying to have it both ways. I believe that homosexuality is a “normal” sexual orientation. I have blessed gay unions for 30 years plus.

I believe all.of us who are Christians must use our sexuality in ways that are loving, authentic and non abusive.

I do not think that a life if rampant sex leads to happiness.

It is hypocritical to pretend to be celibate and be sexually active.

The current situation whereby gay seminarians the priesthood.and priests are leading orgyistic lives is unhealthy and is damaging them, others and the church.

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9.52

MAGNA CARTA

Your post is really a charter, and a moral excuse, for hedonism.

Sex isn’t cake: it does not have to be tasted, as it were of course😨, to know if a person has a liking for it: we are, by nature, sexual beings, so naturally we shall enjoy it, IF it is expressed appropriately.

But sex can be highly addictive, to the point where lust becomes its drive; this is when others become exploited, and can be left feeling used and personally worthless. So to speak of sex as flippantly as you did is like suggesting that so-called ‘recreational’ drug use is a harmless pastime. There are consequences of such behaviours, and they can be dangerously detrimental.

As for your opinion that seminarians should be allowed to, er, ‘explore their sexuality’, would you ever grow up, you extremely silly gay person.😕

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Pat I can relate to all your precise views. However it is different in Maynooth as the Majority of active abuser seminarians came from the Archdiocese of Armagh. A very large network and all interlinked with Rory Coyle. The network is responsible for the rape of David Dysky in Maynooth and the grooming of Seminarians. Eamon Martin is unable to stop their subversive activities.

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Do you have permission to name the ex-seminarian in those terms in a public forum while hiding under cover of anonymity? Most likely you don’t.

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9:52 am

Maybe the conflict resides in catholic church teaching. There’s a big difference between love and lust. That’s according to Jesus Christ. Considering church teaching, the purpose of seminary training,as well as the fact compulsory celibacy is demanded by the church,
is a seminary the appropriate context for young men to explore their sexuality?
Maybe men under the age of thirty should not apply to become priests.

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9:52 am

What else is not to be ‘Christiaised’ according to you?
Why ‘Christianise’ any aspect of life or human behaviour.
Why bother being Christian?

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I think you are getting a bit carried away, Bp Pat, comparing homosexuality back in the seventies and mainstream gay life nowadays.

In fact, from my experience, the 1970s was a very liberating period for many gay people, and I am sorry you were stuck in that horrible seminary.

Also, there is no such word as “homosexualisation”, and some readers may consider the word “homosexual” outdated or clinical and may prefer other terms that they regard as more modern and in inclusive.

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9:18 am

I know nothing of Father McCamley.
Many people can and do remain immature, emotionally, psychologically, psycho-sexually, socially, for their entire lives. A big part of the problem in the church is its ‘culture’.
Accepting young men at 18yrs and expecting them to accept or embrace celibacy at 24yrs is daft, particularly when they have been hot-housed in a homosocial environment for 6 or 7 years.

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8.08

MAGNA CARTA

Of course there is such a word as ‘homosexualisation’. Buy a modern dictionary, for goodness sake.

Language is fluid, not static: it develops, and new words are added to the nation’s lexicon every year.

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Sounds as if you’ve swallowed a dictionary already as well as other stuff in liquid form. Why don’t you take Trumps advice and swallow a gallon of another liquid.

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After throwing John Paul Lyttle to the wolves yesterday, Buckley, you’re asking any word on him?

He’s in a parish saying Mass – not in hiding or removed from ministry – and he will receive a new appointment when recovered from his ordeal in Reading, at the hands of a nutcase who took a set on him.

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I think you are a liar – or your are JP 😀

JP has a 20 year predatory history.

AND, he will strike again – hopefully not as a priest.

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Whether all we have been hearing about JP is true or not, I do not know. But, my antennae are telling me that there is something strange about JP, his history of travails and his behaviour. So, it is right that he takes some time out to clarify things, wherever that may be. A couple of other things. Firstly, and I do not have any hard evidence, but my instincts tell me that there is more to the involvement in this latest episode on the part of Fr Dennehy at Reading. He looks and sounds like a proper brutal nut job. Second, I still wonder why + Portsmouth ordained JP given his peripatetic training and some serious red flags. There is a lot to this story and the people involved. it may not be exactly at it has been reported on this blog, but there is a lot to it, enough to make me very wary of JP and those around him and this story.

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9:57

You are quite right to be wary of JP and those around him. Those supporting him have benefited from his ministrations.

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The entire falling out of the window at 4am episode – after bringing home guys he met at the pub – is simply bizarre.

Thankfully, he wasn’t killed but his days as a seminarian should have been over immediately. It’s all very very odd indeed.

Has that Fr Ray Carroll he was living with at the time of the plunge, who “choked back tears”, as he described Lyttle as a virtual “saint”, left the priesthood?

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Anyone can say that under the cloak of anonymity. Pat wanting you to spill more (which you can’t and wont) highlights what a sexual freak he really is.

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The catholic priesthood is rapidly degenerating into a discredited toxic sick joke riddled with duplicitous individuals (jokers) lacking integrity, having ‘their cake’ while representing ‘God’, all funded by the laity! ( Just tellin’, it like). 😷

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I watched Priest School recently, Bp Pat, and I did not come away with the impression the Scots College seminary in Rome was a “hotbed of orgiastic gay sexuality” or any of the guys featured could be “full-blown sex addicts.”

Of course, the programme was an attempt to improve the image of the Church in Scotland in the aftermath of KOB, which I think it did to some degree.

Of course, they should have asked the young guys if they were gay and, if so, why they were there given the Church’s prohibition and/or the Church’s offensive anti-gay teachings.

We are still none the wiser why the priesthood attracts mainly gay men.

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The current priesthood attracts mainly gay men because the Catholic priesthood is now the biggest international gay club. Join the Navy and see the world. Join the priesthood and get your end away.

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10.08: Pat’s moral hypocrisy is disgusting …He can do it, others can’t..The training of men for the priesthood requires a complete overhaul. What might Pat do if men at the Oratory were in gay unions? What would be the response if a gay man in relationship wanted to join the Oratory? Give us your responses please Pat..

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The Oratory Society does not require celibacy of priests. Gay priests in unions are welcome here. A gay priest in a relationship would be 100% welcome here.

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Of course, I am forgetting the programme was commissioned or made by the Church in Scotland, so they wouldn’t ask those type of questions.

I also thought saw a fleeting glimpse of KOB during the programme, but it was someone else who looked like the fiend.

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9.52

MAGNA CARTA

That ‘documentary’ is one of the most fawning and dishonest I have ever watched, a carefully crated exercise in public relations that would have made Josef Goebbels beamingly proud. It was a narrative (doubtlessly scrutinised, edited, and finally approved before screening, probably and principally by the Rector of the Pontifical Scottish College) that was designed to impress viewers with the ‘ordinariness’ of the male Sottish persons in training for the priesthood: just regular guys, like you and me. It certainly was not a warts-and-all exposé; such honest style of enquiry would never have been approved by ‘Holy Mother Church’ through her representatives: the pain of ugly self-realisation would have just been too much for her to stomach. (One wonders how the Strumpet will fare on ‘Judgement Day’.) The institutional Church, as ever, is into self-flattery, and pious public pretense.

And the band played on while the ship continued to sink. 😕

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Presumably, KOB would have been very closely associated with the college, and one wonders how seminarians of the day would have reacted to the prospect of a visit from him. It must have been common knowledge he was… well, let’s just say, a power bottom queen.

My brother met him once, in company at a party, about five years before his ignominious downfall. My brother didn’t top him, he’s straight but remarked how extremely friendly and sociable the now-disgraced late cardinal was at the time.

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He liked a good drink I believe, many gays do, including all the young sems knocking back the cocktails on the terrazza late afternoon after priest school.

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The issue here is about young men / seminarians / priests being people of integrity and keeping the promises they make about celibacy, surely ? It is about honesty and integrity. Leave aside the rightness or wrongness of compulsory celibacy, that is a secondary issue to this debate. The fact is that the Church publicly requires this promise of those who are ordained. So, it is only right to expect that this is observed. Not to do so, and to skirt around the promise that has been made and to live a parallel and duplicitous life, as a cleric must necessarily do if he decides to transgress his promise of celibacy, is so damaging to him and to the Church and its integrity and the trust that we can have in them.

A secondary question is about homosexuality, which is currently seen as intrinsically disordered by the Church. There could be a debate about that. Whether a person thinks that homosexuality and its genital expression is legitimate or not, the same issue about integrity applies to anybody who has made a promise of celibacy. If the Church wants to sort out this problem, it needs a long hard look at its theology of sexuality in all its manifestations, as well as a review of its demand of obligatory celibacy. In the meantime, I do not think it is unreasonable for me to expect clerics to keep their promise of celibacy, whether it be heterosexual or homosexual expression. Not to do so is just unacceptable, and damages the very foundations of what the Church relies on – trust.

I work in the real world, and I am amazed at how the Church fails to implement even the most basic requirements of professional standards and behaviour. If even a modicum of what JP is alleged to have got up to happened in the work with which I am involved, it would be dealt with immediately, fairly, transparently, but robustly. It is a question of duty of care to the individual involved, to the institution, and to others. The Church just seems to be out of its depths in these matters, and does itself and everybody else damage by its amateurish, unprofessional approach. They need to sharpen up their act, as they are being required to do with safeguarding, otherwise other people will come in and do it for them And PDQ !

Finally, before anybody has a go at + Pat for his lifestyle…..the important thing about + Pat, whether you agree with him or not, is that what you see is what you get. He is clear about his life, his relationships, his ministry, what he is promising, and as far as I can see keeps to that. He is not living a parallel life of duplicity. There is an integrity in that, something that can be trusted. That is not the case with so many Roman Catholic clerics, who coverup, lie, fool themselves and us, living damaging, dysfunctional lives which undermine themselves and the Church.

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Though I can see there have been many examples of undesirable or perhaps even criminal behaviour going on in the priesthood or seminaries, I’m not convinced in the slightest that people are joining it for the access to gay sex or easy living. We are not in the 1950s any more or even the 1970s or 1980s and if you’re seeking lots of sex, there are easier and better ways of getting it with wider choice I would imagine.

Why do so many gay men join or attempt to join the priesthood? Perhaps the same reason that there are a larger proportion of gay nurses, teachers, social workers etc. After experiencing a less than easy childhood – because make no mistake, there’s plenty of prejudice still out there – there is some idealistic wish to help and support others? I don’t know.

What does surprise me is that people feel they can overcome their nature. Celibacy, whether for a gay or straight or anything in between individual, is not easy. If it is a real choice or natural to a person, that’s brilliant. Often, however, it is seen as a necessary part of a vocation. But making a lifelong decision to be celibate is rather different than deciding to move to Dublin for a new job. Put people in the very strange environment of a seminary – and after a visit to one once, it is very strange – it’s hardly surprising that strange and unpleasant things happen, notwithstanding the initial best intentions of most, if not all, of those involved.

It is 2020. It is time to think again about what priesthood is & ideas of what are and are not acceptable relationships. Though I’m not a philosopher or theologian, I have never fully been convinced intellectually of the rigour of the church’s teachings on either area.

I do worry at times that in shining the light on some less than desirable behaviour, people are being victimised. To be frank, I don’t want to see alleged pictures of people’s body parts, whatever they are engaged in, or to enter into a salacious lust to see them to point a finger and judge.

It is refreshing when people do actually talk about change and discuss positive and achievable ways forward. Maybe that will require the root and branch reform which Magna Carta suggests in a way that is uniquely his own, requiring the complete exstrirpation of the RCC; perhaps not. Let’s have less discussion of “hot talent” and more about what might be achieved. For that, I think there is an even greater desire than a quick glimpse of some priest’s ithyphallic member from Grindr.

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It’s so easy to live a life of perfect continence from an armchair — that is, it’s easy to imagine and expect OTHERS to live that life on one’s behalf.

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Pat please encourage Eamon Martin to clarify why he kicked out Brendan Marshall and retained Stephen Wilson. It is in the public interest to know why.

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It wasn’t just gay behaviour in Maynooth when I was there in the 80s/90s. There was plenty of lads who jumped the wall to party the night away in the Students Union. One even broke his leg doing so. He managed with help and in agony to be dragged back to the seminary and said he had fallen down the stairs. There was, also, an occasion when two lads had fisticuffs over a girl! The other witty thing I remember is the Auxilia Ladies Hostel. It was run by the Salesian Sisters who treated the girls like novices. At the start of the year, it was called The Virgin Mega Store. At the end, it was The Virgin No More Store.

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The lad (that was how he referred to everyone else) who had the break coming over the wall, was a great favourite of the Middle Dean, and of disgraced bishop, Joe Duffy of Clogher.

The wall incident was reported to the deans and Joe Duffy by a concerned seminarian, but nothing happened.

The seminarian was ordained in 1993, left the priesthood a few years later and was last seen living in Maynooth village, of all places.

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+ Egan of Portsmouth does seem to be a little off about a lot of things, not just JP Liyttle.

https://www.thetablet.co.uk/news/12811/row-breaks-out-over-church-closures

Here here is suggesting churches should be reopened because spiritual health is as important as physical health, notwithstanding that Covid 19 doesn’t put the spiritual life in the grave as it does the physical life ! And that on top of his encouragement to go stroke your church when out of a walk. I wouldn’t be surprised if he came up with a suggestion to go and lick the church door next time you pass.

He does see a bit off kilter about such a lot of things. What planet does he live on ? Is the man a complete tit ?!

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Hes the only one to say anything original about the health crisis, I see Mark Davis in Shrewsbury has sent a video message out thanking all the groups the government spokesmen thanked two weeks ago, which i think is called ‘ virtue signalling’ nothing to say about the real threat of unemployment and life for familes under lockdown , also a terrble lie saying that in every parish in Shrewsbury the priests are ‘ offering the Holy Mass’ everyday in the Parish churches I dont believe it for a minute

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1 39: Who may we ask does all the necessary screening, psychiatrically and psychologically? Who ensures that Garda/PSNI vetting is done to requirement? Who forms these men spiritually, theologically and morally? Who pays their salary and maintains their houses etc……..Answers are deserved. I think honest answers are necessary before condemning other systems….

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2:19 pm

Who does all the necessary screening psychologically and psychiatrically in Gaynooth ? Are prospective seminarians vetted by the police? Who forms these men spiritually, morally and theologically? What qualifications and experience do they have for these formator positions? Who pays them, accommodates them, feeds them? Are there deductions from their salaries towards such expenses if they are accommodated and fed in the seminary? Who are they accountable to? Are there clearly defined transparent complaints procedures in the seminary for all, including seminarians ? Who determines those to be ordained and on what grounds? On what grounds are seminary staff dismissed, if any? On what grounds are seminarians dismissed? Lets have clearly defined policies on websites, with openness, transparency and integrity as integral components on how the church operates on all levels, rather than the current obsessive preoccupation with secrecy.

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The proof that Fr Ray Lyons was laicised that you asked for is a letter written to The Echo newspaper by Fr Ray Lyons – come on, please. What a laugh. Someone says maybe and probably he’s retired – you are making this up as you go along whilst casting all sorts of wild accusations. Get a grip and grow up.

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Is it true? After hearing President Trumps comment on disinfectant a Ballymena minister’s wife has been charged with domestics abuse and bleach of the priest!
MMM

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+Pat: How old? I believe Trump’s ridiculous comments were only on Thurs evening US timezone, so how old is “VERY old”?
And I typed in “domestos” abuse which you’ve altered to “domestic” abuse. Hmmmm!
MMM

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This is literally just a thought but I wonder whether it’s more that the straights have left?
As we know lots of priests left to get married in the 60s and 70s.
Once reliable contraception came along the way was more open for straight men to have sexual relationships without fear of being forced to get married.

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Magna Carta

Did you bury your dads leg? Many believe that you should be buried whole. The body part deserves respect and it is not to be dumped in a medical landfill.

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6.35

MAGNA CARTA

Now don’t be silly. We barbequed and ate it.

I’d love to have YOU over for dinner some evening.

Interested?

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Bp Pat’s crusade to de-homosexualise the priesthood would be like trying to de-homosexualise the male corps de ballet. He’d have a hard job doing either.

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I’m clearly very bored in lockdown that I’ve found this blog. Why the headlines? I remember a few years ago this trainee priest at the Cardiff uni chaplaincy who was well on the gay scene.

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Armagh seminarian have retreated to the Dark Web and Tor Browser. Impossible for state authorities to track and monitor. There is no boundaries now. Eamon Martin needs to act swiftly.

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Eamon Martin has lots of credibility in his leadership of his young clergy. This new revelation of Clergy and a seminarian using the Dark web browser is deeply troubling.

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Pat what sort of material would the Armagh Seminarian be searching on the Dark Web Browser and why would he want to maintain his IP address hidden from regular internet servers. Pat this has to end we all know who he is and his activities in Maynooth and beyond.

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Pat there needs to be an audit carried out on all Armagh clergy. This is out of control and vulnerable people within the community could possible be at risk from these Clergy. Eamon must be transparent and open the doors to the Civil authorities and online auditors.

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