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SEXUAL ABUSE IN THE CATHOLIC CHURCH – A DECADE OF CRISIS 2002 – 2013.



Santa Clara University May 11, 2012



A RADICAL LOOK AT TODAY AND TOMORROW
Thomas P. Doyle, J.C.D., C.A.D.C.

I want to begin by sharing the nature of my involvement in the phenomenon of sexual abuse by Catholic Clergy.  I chose the word “phenomenon” intentionally because I do not believe any of the commonly used descriptors — “crisis,” “scandal,” “problem,” come even close to naming what this has been and what it is today.

My name is Tom Doyle.  I was ordained a Dominican priest in 1970, forty two years ago.  I received my doctorate in Canon Law in 1978.  I first became involved in the issue of sexual abuse of minors when I had a position at the Vatican embassy in Washington.  My initial experiences involved not former Father Gilbert Gauthe from Louisiana, but two bishops, both of whom are now deceased.  The year was 1982 but my most intense involvement, shared with Fr. Dr. Michael Peterson and attorney Ray Mouton, began in 1984 and has not ended.

I would like to begin by stating my conclusion.  Since 2002 the revelations of widespread sexual abuse of minors by Catholic clergy and religious men and women have spread to Europe, Latin America and to some Asian countries.  In the US the Catholic bishops have created a number of programs and policies and have aggressively implemented their “Zero Tolerance” policy.  In spite of these policies and the expensive public relations efforts they have implemented, the attitude of the bishops as a collective group has not only not changed but it has gotten worse.  Their disdain for the victims has become more and more obvious.

The true measure of their understanding of the horrific nature of the issue and their commitment to change is not the programs, policies, documents or speeches they generate but their unqualified attitude of compassion toward the victims and this is scandalously lacking. The bishops simply don’t get it or if they do get it, they don’t care.

I have been directly and intimately involved in most dimensions of this travesty.  I have been asked by accused priests to help with canonical and fraternal support. I have given workshops and seminars to groups of diocesan and religious priests.  I have been an expert witness and a consultant in over a thousand civil and criminal cases throughout the United States, in Canada, Ireland, England, Belgium, Australia and New Zealand.  I have been a consultant to or expert witness for several of the grand jury investigations in the U.S. including the Philadelphia grand juries of 2005 and 2011 and most recently I testified at the criminal trial in Philadelphia.  I have served as a consultant or expert witness for the government commissions in Ireland beginning with the Ferns Commission and for the Cornwall Inquiry in Canada.

The real truth about what has happened and what continues to happen is not found in any reports or so-called audits provided by church sources but in the documents obtained from dioceses and religious orders by victims’ attorneys or surrendered in the course of grand jury or similar official investigations. In 2010 I was asked to address the special commission of the Belgian parliament.  Over these 30 years I have met and spoken with thousands of persons involved in one way or another.

I am sharing all of this for no other reason than to illustrate the extent of my experience and the context from which I make the remarks that follow.

The most important experiences I have ever had as a Christian and as a priest have been the times spent with victims of sexual violation and spiritual betrayal by Catholic priests and bishops.  With nearly every victim I have had the privilege of knowing, by far the most painful moment for me has been when I have apologized for what we, the clergy, have done to them.  Without exception, every man and woman has told me that it was the first time anyone from the clergy has done so.  It is not a matter of  parroting meaningless  phrases such as “I’m sorry for your suffering” or “I apologize for the pain you have endured,” or “I regret if mistakes were made” as the pope and some bishops have phrased it.  For me the only honest way to express this important sentiment has been to say, “I am deeply sorry for what we have done to you and deeply ashamed  that we, the clergy, have hurt you in such a profoundly shameful manner.”

The most heart-breaking moments have been the many times I have been with parents who have shared with me the indescribable pain they experienced when they learned that their little boy or little girl had been sexually violated by a Catholic cleric.

These experiences that have changed my life and have reached to the core of my being.  These are the experiences that should have been the norm for the bishops but sadly, they have been the very rare exception. 

In spite of the assurances from Church officials that the worst is behind us, this is clearly delusion and not reality.  Until the primary focus shifts from the hierarchy, to the victims, there will be no fundamental honesty in the Church’s response and nothing will change.  Until the security of creating policies and programs aimed at protecting the children of the future is superseded by the risk of  reaching out with honest, unqualified compassion to the victims of today, there will be no true healing and no authentic movement forward.  Until the efforts to blame the secular culture, the media, the sexual revolution, anti-Catholicism, victims’ lawyers, Woodstock or Janis Joplin are abandoned and replaced with a fearless,  probing examination of the clerical culture and the hierarchical exercise of power, the collective hope that this terrible nightmare will someday be “the worry of a distant past” will never happen.

With respect to Tom Plante and Kathleen McChesney, I do not agree with their statement at the beginning of chapter One that the “crisis” began on January 6, 2002 in Boston.  It was and is not a crisis and it did not began in Boston. 

The sexual violation of minors and adults by clerics of every rank has been a tragic part of the Catholic Church from the first century.  The scandalous evidence of this is found in the Church’s own official documentation.  The tragic chapter of this saga written in our own era did not begin in 2002 or in 1984.  Those were moments of revelation and exposure of a culture that had been hidden not too far beneath the Church’s surface.  The difference between the present and the past is this:  whereas in prior centuries the institutional Church maintained control over the response to waves of revelation, in our era it is not the pope and bishops who are shaping the continuing history of clergy sexual abuse and hierarchical coverup, but the victims.

What we have seen publicly exposed since the fall of 1984 has not been a
“crisis” of sexual abuse by clergy.  A crisis is a happening with a beginning and an end that is responded to either effectively or clumsily by the relevant powers.  This has been the revelation of the dark and toxic dimension of the institutional Catholic Church.  The focus has been on the sexual violation  by Catholic deacons, priests, bishops and cardinals as well as men and women religious.
  
But this tragedy is not fundamentally about sex.  It is about the abysmal and treacherous abuse of  power — ecclesiastical power, church power, power that has been given by the Creator only to do good but power that has been selfishly perverted by those to whom it has been entrusted and which has brought some of the most despicable harm imaginable to the most innocent and vulnerable members of Christ’s Church.  The harm has been sexual, emotional and physical but I believe that in the end, the most devastating harm has been the assault on the spirit.

A fundamental flaw inherent in every dimension of response has been the concept of the Church reflected in the response.  The image that consistently comes through from the papal speeches to the scripted apologies of bishops to the various protection programs, is the traditional though seriously flawed image of the Church as institution, governed by the hierarchy, all celibate male clerics, none of whom have ever experienced parenthood.  The persistent struggle of the pope and the bishops to maintain control over this nightmare that never ends is painfully obvious:  a struggle to exonerate themselves, a struggle to direct and determine every aspect of the response and above all, a struggle to maintain some semblance of superiority over the victims.  We are constantly reminded of the grave harm done to the Church and of the hope that someday the image and integrity of the Church will be restored.   We are constantly reminded that the bishops acted as they did out of a misguided belief that they were acting for the good of the Church.  But the good of the Church has been their good and not the good of the victims or even the Christian community.

The fundamental fault from the earliest centuries to the present has been the failure to respond not as a papal monarchy, but as what the church really is, The People of God.

We are constantly reminded of the many ways that dioceses and religious orders have worked to protect the children of today and tomorrow.  The National Review Board, the diocesan review boards, the child protection offices, the background screening protocols, the mandatory awareness programs — are more than simply commendable but are a remarkable movement to change the meaning and reality of child safety in our society.  But none of these endeavors would have happened had they not been forced upon the institutional Church by the victims, the media, the courts and the angry public.
 
There is however a dark side to the self-congratulatory picture painted by today’s hierarchy.  Efforts to change state laws to ensure justice and healing to all victims and to put more perpetrators out of commission are vigorously and sometimes viciously opposed by the bishops in every State where such legislation has been introduced, and this opposition comes at the cost of millions of dollars donated by the remaining faithful.  The excuses given for this organized sabotage are so self-serving they are not worth mentioning.  The true reason is the fear of even more exposure and the appearance of more victims.

In spite of messages of compassion directed at victims and in spite of Pope Benedict’s direct orders to the bishops to do all in their power to heal, victims who have the courage to go to court are most often subjected to embarrassing, humiliating, brutalizing and revictimizing treatment not only by the lawyers hired by the bishops but often by their public relations firms and by clerics themselves.  
The victims will not be told by the institution that enabled their abusers what efforts they may use in their attempts to heal.  They go to court, contrary to the libelous remarks of some, especially the apparent unofficial mouthpiece of at least the archbishop of New York, Bill Donohue, not because they and their lawyers want to bleed the Church of its money but because the civil courts have been the only venue that has consistently provided justice and validation of the terror suffered by these men and women.  In reality a massive drain is the hundreds of millions of dollars spent on defense lawyers to fight victims and the equally exorbitant amounts spent on public relations firms hired to create the illusion that the Church is doing what it was founded to do.

The most recent egregious example of this hypocrisy has been directed at the main source of hope and recovery for countless victims; the concerted attempts to destroy SNAP and defame its leaders for no other reason than the fact that they have had the courage to stand up to and challenge the integrity of the institutional Church.

The recent John Jay study on causes and contexts provided important data that placed the sexual abuse from one chronological period into a broader sociocultural context but this study didn’t come close to examining the true causes.  These causes are in the sacrosanct domain the institutional Church goes to every length to protect but it is the domain where we will begin to find the answers:  the clerical sub-culture and the narcissistic hierarchical elite that has allowed this nightmare to happen and has failed to comprehend the profound depth of the damage done, not to the Church as institution, but to the most important persons among God’s people, the victims.
 
This dark and toxic side of the Church will only began to fade when popes, bishops, priests, religious and laity  understand that when we say “Church” we refer not to the hierarchy, the government or the power structure, but those harmed, abused, marginalized and rejected by a Church that that forgot that before all else it is the People of God.

105 replies on “SEXUAL ABUSE IN THE CATHOLIC CHURCH – A DECADE OF CRISIS 2002 – 2013.”

A masterly summary.
I would just take issue with his point that the church is really the people – that was the post-Vatican 2 dream but in reality the church is the hierarchy and it is a bit sad the way people kowtow to them.

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That includes those who are called to teach and govern, ie the bishops in communion with the Pope, who has full, universal and immediate authority over all the Churches.

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ok, as a daily reader Im sick of the same old merry-go-round. Can we discuss contemporary issues?. sexual abuse happened, we know it, we all acknowledge it, and we all sympathise with the pain and hurt of victims. but I’m genuinely sick of this same old same old groundhog malarky.

is there any good happening anywhere? anywhere at all? what are blog readers doing during this unprecedented pandemic? I hope you are all safe. I’m ‘zooming’ with my grandchildren, and while it’s not ideal, its great to see and hear them; especially all their stories and creative designs. It’s one of the great privileges of being a grandparent. at 68 I have so much to live for.

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Totally agree @10.52pm. I’m weary of the repetitive same old same old each day on here. How much more can we say or contribute on the serious issue of abuse? Like many I’m struggling through lockdown and would like to discuss a new theme or subject too.

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10:52 pm

Your comment lacks congruence and credibility.
You claim everyone acknowleges and sympathizes with the pain and hurt of victims.
Yet, you then call hightlighting Church crime as old groundhog malarkey!

The fact is, not everyone sympathizes with the hurt, pain and suffering of victims.

Peoples lives have been destroyed. People are prematurely dead as a direct consequence of clerical criminality. Children, like your grandchildren, were violated by priests wanting to sexually gratify themselves. Criminal acts on children and vulnerable adults were covered up by bishops. Are we supposed to believe what has gone on in the American Church didn’t happen in the Church in Britain and Ireland?

Safeguarding has to be run independently of the Church. That is essential.

Are you another Church apologist? With whom would Jesus Christ align Himself?

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@8.03am I expected a comment like this. Yes we all agree they are important issues but for goodness sake do we have to talk about them day in and day out. There are other issues going on in the world you know, maybe you haven’t noticed.

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Caring for victims is NOT a priority. It never was a priority. Caring for themselves, their
careers within the institution, and the clerical fraternity, while protecting Church assets
are the only priorities.They have discredited themselves, the moral authority attached
to the papacy and even the Gospel message. Tom Doyle is a prophetic voice which
is extremely rare within contemporary institutional Catholicism.

Recently I was misrepresented and lied to by a bishop.
These company men don’t give a damn about real people and real life situations.

They are NOT to be trusted.

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Absolutely right Anon@7:40.
A sentence in the fourth paragraph of Tom Doyle’s masterly analysis struck me as going to the heart of the matter: “The bishops don’t get it, or if they do, they don’t care.”

For my part, I believe the vast majority of RC clerics have no idea of the significant impact of abuse both in terms of personal emotional and psychological damage to victims, and to the corporate well being of their church. Much of that failure comes from what has been regularly highlighted in +Pat’s blog: their sense of superior exceptionalism fostered by a training not “fit for purpose”, and the incestuous protectionism it fosters.
MMM

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8:56 am

True,MMM.
The clergy follow orders as do the bishops.
Keeping traps firmly shut, regardless, is policy.

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8.56: MMM – you can make a better argument than just simply reiterating another’s comment. I believe Tom Doyle has made very powerful observations about the contributory root causes of sexual abuse. His analysis are superb and very challenging. I agree that our Church leaders still do not realise the catastrophe caused by the abuse scandals. As a priest I get it. I live and work on the ground. I know the horrendous nature of it and the fall out among parish communities. I strive as best I can to be of service in my particular situation and have shouted loudly enough at authorities. But I do my utmost. From my perspective the 40 years of ministry have been horrendous in trying to respond in some meaningful way. It is an almost insurmountable challenge.

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8:55 am

As far as I’m concerned, yes! We do have to discuss these issues.
Until such time as there’s meaningful apologies, accountability and justice,
with significant changes, we must continue highlighting and discussing these issues.

Human lives matter.

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Thank you to the people who commented in the thread above starting at 10:52 for providing such a perfect illustration of why the abuse should not be allowed to go silent.
You have also perfectly illustrated the associated point that you either don’t get it or if you do, you don’t care.
I have tried to envisage what would motivate someone to post disgusting comments like yours and it isn’t pretty: you can only want to bury a shameful history and return to business as usual.
If you genuinely wanted religious commentary or chat on other subjects there are thousands of places on the Internet you could find that or you could start your own blog. But you don’t, you come on here moaning that you’re tired of hearing about abuse.
May I respectfully suggest you do one and leave the chat here to the grown ups. You won’t stop Bishop Buckley being a thorn in the side of co-abusers like you, and he also won’t stop posting your comments so you’ll just carry on looking more and more stupid, and will continue to illustrate that you’re determined not to get it.

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09.34am It’s obvious you are agreeing with your own post at 09.16am and congratulating yourself. Now that is pathetic. You are a busy bee with at least 3 comments all in succession and all attacking people.

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9:16 who is not 9:34! And all the other Anons:
A long time ago I asked if contributors could use a handle or pseudonym to their comments. Many did, thus making it much easier to follow individual’s contributions and feedback commentary to them.
The absence of pseudonyms today makes it difficult to follow who is commenting to whom.
Can I ask again that we use “handles” if we think we have anything worthwhile to contribute.
The others may wish just to remain as “anonymous” in which case that makes it easier to recognise they are just ventilating frustrated steam and scroll past them as of no consequence.
MMM

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@9.17am Crawl back under your bridge troll. Nasty, vulgar, ignorant and an idiot. You almost sound like Pat himself because you use all his lingo including co-abusers. You don’t sound very grown up to me as you sound like a juvenile play school bully.

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And you, sir or madam Anon@ 10:19 sound like a person of hidden insights and vision.
By the way, where is the @ 9:17 you refer to for I can’t find it?
But one with your visionary ability no doubt can.

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12:10 pm

I take your point, MMM.
However, my handle was ‘mishandled’, as in used by delinquent Cathbots.

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3:13 pm & 3:38 pm

See Geoffrey Robertson QC, ‘The Case of the Pope: Vatican Accountability for Human Rights Abuse.’ It’s available on Amazon kindle for 4. 81 pounds.

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I too find myself enduring a certain ennui when presented with the daily diet of abuse by clergy. Important though it is. And crucial as it is that this is recognised, addressed, and rooted out. I feel a bit the same with Covid 19 which dominates every news report and current affairs programme. Understandably. But when something other than Covid 19 come on it is such a joy !

So, we are not abuse junkies, and we do sometimes need to supplement our diet with some other themes, including on this blog. + Pat does a very good job on these issues and has been fearless in bringing to the light the dysfunction of clergy and bishops and the institutional Church in being the medium in which abuse has been able to thrive, along with coverup and a real sense that they still do not really ‘get it’. I would, at the same time, like some diversion from this single issue.

Some pointers:

1. The issue being debated at the moment about the opening up of churches and worship from lockdown; should that be done; is the Church asking for exceptionalism ; what about other faiths and traditions ; should we be seen to make sacrifices for the common good rather than looking to our own narrow interests; what changes has the privatisation / individualisation of religion and practice during the lockdown taught us; have Catholics come to realise that they can retain their faith without the mediation of clergy? There are so many themes and trends that come out of this experience of Covid 19 and lockdown that are worthy of unpicking and examining.

2. The social economic and justice teaching of the Church is prophetic. Is this not a time to be examining that again and putting it forward during this time when so many things in our society will need to be looked at, or do we just accept that we go back to what was ? I don’t just mean talking about the wonderful things people do at local level, food banks, meals to the homeless and locked in, being nice and kind to people. I mean more a serious debate about the implementation of Catholic principles and teaching about social economic and justice issues in the very structure of society and economy whereby things are changed fundamentally for the future. Surely, the Catholic Church, and we, have a voice and a role to play in that ? Discuss !

3. This lockdown time has been an opportunity for people to reflect on their faith, and perhaps to start to ask questions. What are those questions ? It is not a negative to question and to explore, indeed it is a vital part of the journey of faith, and we do not need to fear where it leads us. So, what new things have people discovered as they have had to relate to each other, to the Church, and to God in new ways and places ? What issues / subjects have they found themselves thinking about and reassessing, without the dominating influence of Church authority and teaching standing over them telling them that things are settled and there is no room for debate ?! I have found myself thinking seriously about the role of women in our Church, and how unsustainable it is to have at the heart of sacramental and priestly ministry a road block to the intimate involvement of women and their talents in being channels of God’s mercy and love. I have found myself trying to work through sexual morality as taught by the Church and the rather odd and dysfunctional way in which it seems to colour all aspects of Church life and practice, and how unhealthy and hobbling that can be for us all. I been asking myself about relationships and what is important in a relationship ? And about what constitutes a relationship of love, which doesn’t always have to be judged by the Church’s obsession with the genitals. And also about how to manage relationships that break down or fail or are dysfunctional, and where that leaves people.

4. And so much more…!

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It is not just the Roman Catholic Church that is asking for Churches to be open.

It is ALL Faith’s asking for their Place of Worship to be open.

I feel so sorry for the elderly as they have supported the Churches all these years and because of the Government are not allowed a Requiem Mass.

From the Cradle to the Grave.

Surely they could at least allow funerals with social distancing and cleaning afterwards.

Instead we have these Priests going around as though they were God. (Disgusting)

Private prayer will be to risky but Funerals yes.

When they do open if you look abroad places of worship with 5000 reduced to only 700 social distancing.

Archbishop Martin said they could close a third of Dublin’s parishes well they will need them now.

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My experience isn’t quite what is stated above. My mother died of coronavirus and has had a requiem mass which was offered without a congregation. The church does have webcast facilities but I wasn’t asked about this and didn’t ask for it.
She also had a longer service than usual at the crematorium conducted by the parish priest with six people present and socially distanced, and a webcast.
Perhaps I should say that this took place in England.
The undertakers were having a horrendous time with social distancing, working from home etc.

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9:44 a.m: interesting points. It gets thrown into perspective when we see eucharistolatry. Is confecting to do with confectionery? Then lack of communion with the persecuted abroad (for instance) means lack of communion with you & me, therefore we no longer have vows to the institution, only to known individuals, with few criteria as to whether to trust. To save others’ consciences I decline to express any of my allegiances in ceremonial participation everywhere and anywhere. I can share in a Lord’s Prayer and Holy Scriptures which aren’t per se ceremony.

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1.21… And go and do exactly what you decide. Good luck to you…let the rest if us decide an out belonging to the Church community. I belong. I desire to belong. Do not implicate me in your judgments.

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9:44 am

This blog highlights abuse, corruption and criminality in the Catholic Church in Ireland, Great Britain and Internationally.

There is endless criminality in the Church….!

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I’m @ 9:44 and what I am saying is that we should be able to do both – highlight the abuse etc., but also raise our gaze to other things. It’s not either or, it’s both and….. You know, it’s what we generally do in the rest of life with most things. Why not here ?

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10:45 am

Because clerical crime is ruining the Church, particularly the catholic church.
Protecting human beings, particularly vulnerable human beings, is paramount.
Holding ecclesiastical authorities to be accountable while calling for justice is
also extremely important. Highlighting priests in ministry who are a risk to the community is also very important. Highlighting abuse of power and cover ups
is a another serious scandalous issue. I could go on…..!

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10:40 am

The media report is an apologist site for the Rcc. And, not a very good one.
We had one of two similar sites this side of the atlantic.
Check out the guy who runs it.!

Dissenter! What BS.

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9.44: I agree with all your commentary with one caveat. We must never forget the horrendous nature of abuse and the reality for survivors. Sadly, as a Church and as a society we want to move on once reports and investigations are complete, but surviving is a life long task. I believe we must not forget and the Church will forever be shamed by its criminal behaviour and moral and spiritual negligence. The issues and permanent effects of sexual abuse scandals are with us for life. The only criticism I have is that the constant repetition of narratives is used primarily to attack, condemn and humiliate certain individuals and very often the debate become a vicious tit for tat charade. It is not morally right to use the abuse of any individual to further hatred, bias and bigotry. The suggestions you make abiut the experiences of living through and with covid 19 are excellent. Presently, I know that the way of being a parish community has changed and will continue to change. There are many challenges to be faced about the meaning of ministry, reaching out, service to one another, utilising gifts more, allowing the local community a greater role in running parishes…There are lots of challenges ahead and I believe if we tap into the outpouring of caring and compassion we can renew our communities. During the pandemic to date people whom I’ve met – many – at a distance – are all asking questions previously not asked about life, God, faith, prayer, community, the Church: What really matters now? I think with great imagination, creativity and guidance we can offer a safe space in our parish churches or centres to explore a more relevant and meaningful Christian way of living. While there is a huge legacy of negatives, hurt and damage as a result of sexual abuse, many are still looking to their local parish community for support. Perhaps an exchange of ideas as you suggest would be an invaluable contribution as we adapt to a very changed way of being and living. I hope such a conversation can be one of tolerance, respect and careful thoughtfulness and not of a vicious condemnatory kind.

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There used recently to be people who felt constrained to book church space, employ church sound engineers, etc. Now we’re back to the old fashioned grape vine which was and once again is free & easy not to mention easy on the lug ‘oles.

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OK if people want constructive comments here is one. These are ways in which I would know the church was starting to get it and was bothered.
1. They would sack the lawyers. Bishops would meet personally with complainants and help them.
2. Dioceses would have a policy for restitution.
3. Dioceses would have strict safeguarding policies with mandatory police and social care reporting, and follow these policies.
4. Dioceses would make full disclosure (with required personal details withheld of accusations historically made against priests.
5. Dioceses would make full disclosure of the actions they have previously taken in response to allegations.
6. A preferential policy to those abused by the church would be taken – the church would genuinely put its own interests second.
7. Memorials would be erected in every church to those abused by clergy, particularly the clergy of that church.
8. No liturgy would fail to have some mention and repentance of this abomination.

I’m sure others can think of others – and you would not only get credibility by doing this but blessing because it is a mitzvah.

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Maynooth abusers within the last decade were groomed and moulded from within Maynooth. The young selected few were abused and raped.

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12.24: It’s outrageous that Pat allows this malicious brat to make allegations which he will do nothing about. He is essentially a liar and a moral coward.

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Admire Fr Doyle for his work on sexual abuse victims. Wondered did fr Doyle ever came across victims such as deaf kids? There was some priests, nuns and Christian brothers who took advantage of deaf kids inability to speak nor communicate well. Bishops know this as they still willing even now to exploit this advantage to give them Leverage of denial. Look at pope Francis when he then a bishop as what did he do re deaf kids? Nothing nor any decisive action to prevent it.

Fr Doyle is he still a priest? He got it right re bishops, superiors, Abbess DON’T GET It at all whatsoever. They don’t understand how it does affect us re psychological, psychiatric or mental illness which stemmed from sexual abuses. It takes years to recover from all this.

Bishops, cardinals, priests, religious orders don’t get it even pope PF and benedict. They only think of themselves and money of course to keep coming in and support their lifestyle. Of course Catholic Church is asset rich but cash?

Measures to reduce Catholic Church power and money.

1. Strip their charity status as treat them as any business organisations or entity.
2. All bishops or cardinals or priest to be taxed at income tax same for everyone else no exceptions.

3. All their properties is to be taxed at captain gain taxes instead of charity status.

4. Remove Catholic Church role or ownership in schools or hospitals or special schools, and restrict Catholic Church to religious activities only.

5. Compulsory mandatory reporting to civil authorities on abuses coming from Catholic Church.

6. Automatic defrocking for all who sex abuse kids in any way shape or form. No exceptions for all priests, Bishop, cardinals.

7. Any income derived from holy communions, confirmations, baptisms, funerals, hospital wage is to be treated at income tax instead of charity status.

8. A register for catholics who wants to leave Catholic Church but now we couldn’t. The Vatican stopped all that leaving us in the limbo. A register would be very useful cos it would determine how many catholics left as opposed to claims by Catholic Church re their numbers on memberships.

Finally would love to meet fr Doyle one day cos he did an extraordinary job and fair play to him

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My ex lay supervisor was very involved in scouts when he was employed by school for deaf boys.

There was no garda vetting way back that time as he joined it at the age of 19 which puzzled me at first until many years later.

Luckily I wasnt abused by him but after I left school. He went on videoing it in boys showers, inside bed miniature video etc. He bothered me a lot which I didn’t know why until one guy told me re him many years later which made sense to me afterwards.

In my experience they abusers look for areas of where to access the kids, 1. School(boarding), 2. Churches, 3. Swimming pools. 4, scouts. 5 youth academies or clubs etc.

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Awfull bold Armagh 6 these days online in the video chat rooms. ‘Mine is bigger than yours o show me thats it keep going xxxxxxx’.

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12.13 You know this is not True this is pure evil gossip by YOU.

Did the seminarian knock you back or something and you have it in for him.

Archbishop Martin has had this investigated and asked the Police as well and there is NOT a bit of truth in it.

Why Pat lets you say it daily is quite sad as you need prayers.

Hopefully they will find you and take you through the courts for slander.

We all have enough with Covid 19 without you attacking Good Holy Priest’s

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@ 4:01 pm

How do you know so much about the goings on in the Church and with the hierarchy?

You frequently mislead people telling people to contact Bishops or Nuncios.

Are you a priest or are you employed by the Church?

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Jim
Try writing a post without the words ‘bishop’ or ‘archbishop’ in it.

You come across as obsessive about them.

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The mind boggles. A shower of comments like a bag of pick & mix All is said but what is being done. What’s the scores on the doors hi

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1:29 PM

Good Afternoon hi fly
Begorra fly when all is said by the hot air merchants nathin gets done.
There’s no scores on the doors hi fly.
The doors are shut with a message on the doors sayin feck off. Not wanted.
What would Jesus make of the carrying on…with the kubs…and in the kooky kollard klub.
May the Force be with you.+
Bye bye fly hi

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12 13: You need to get s brain and grow up. You trivialize serious issues of abuse with your infantile moments. Get a grip on your crap!!

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12.29: Pat, don’t mislead and your for business. Practically all parishes now have webcam and radio cavities for all occasions. We infirm.parishioners about this and RIP website let people know about such facilities. We have mass every day at noon for webcam and many parishioners forward special intentions by phone or by email. You give a misleading impression which us most disingenuous of you. We’re ahead of You, Pat! Incidentally, before you can record any ceremony on webcam, Data Protection requires written consent from families. I’ve had three such requests cor funerals receny and all families had no difficulty with signing consent form. The importan message is – no family has been refused a funeral mass since the 12th March. Even if there wasn’t a mass, priests went to graveside and crematoria for prayer services. But no church has not allowed a funeral mass.

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Yes @ 3.46: predictive text can be difficult. But why don’t you proof read before posting. That’s not difficult!

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Scouting Ireland investigation is being discussed on Liveline. Horrendous listening to survivors of abuse share their reaction. Same pattern of cover up, obfuscation and denial by Scouting Ireland.

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Hi Pat. Atmosphere here in Liverpool is very tangible. The mother of an abused seminarian is very unwell and priests are not happy with the arch.
It seems more difficult issues related to the same are surficing as I type this. Are you aware of this siruation Pat?

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This subject keeps being hinted at here. Frankly why should this come to Pat?
Are the ‘good’ priests of the diocese, who you say are not happy with it, going to do anything about it?
Thought not.

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Bishop Pat. your answer to live streaming of funerals is covered in a letter from Archbishop D. Martin
“Pope Francis, and said, “While virtual Masses are very important, they are not Church, Church is about people coming together. The danger about the virtual is it can be very passive.”
That is why we need our Churches open for the Real thing not a web cam.

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I understand. But one can participate in a live web Mass and through it be in spiritual communion. God can use the internet too.

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5.02: Pat, parishes all over the country have been using webcams and modern communications to keep in touch and initiate some great pastoral projects in their parishes. Yes, people can be in spiritual communion through the webcam as they follow mass. Thus, we pray a spiritual communion prayer at each mass. I.hope you have loyal followers.

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In this world of the world wide web the church is being seen not as a source of the truth and the good news but as a self serving toxic source of self serving untruths. In order to be seen as the source of objective truth the church needs to unlearn the past well tried and failed methods and adopt something new. I doubt that anyone in the church has been trained or is prepared to do this. Who will take the lead? Who is a true servant of Christ?

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I got my first blow job off a Priest who totally manipulated me and groomed me before that. Wrote to his Archbishop a few years ago – no reply.

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We do have a photograph of a PP giving a young man a blow job on the altar of Kildorrery Parish Church!

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It’s not a fantasy my friend. He manipulated me into doing odd jobs round the Church and then took me on a driving lesson. He said the blow job was a present for doing my bit for the Parish. I was naive and he took advantage.

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I’m all for the blog, Bp Pat, but I think you have to give the Kildorrery tryst a rest now; worse things have happened. They were both consenting adults, mind, and one of them is no longer with us.

By the way, the Pell petition at the time of writing is 66,200!

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Pat I lost my virginity within my Maynooth Seminary Bed, two seminarians drugged me and forced anal sex upon me, I’m not sure was it rape or not because I did scream and begged them to stop.

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Drugs were so easy to get quietly on the corridor in St Marys House Maynooth. Xxxxxxxx was the main dealer. A small fat seminarian from was addicted to Poppers of varied strengths and flavors.

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Thanks Bishop Pat.Even although 20 odd years have passed, it has only started affecting me in last few years. Thanks for believing me. Means alot.

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Anyone who has seen behind the facade of the church and is not in total denial will find this perfectly credible.
These sickos can’t actually negotiate adult relationships or even casual sex so this is what they do.
These are your pastors, folks.

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Well not unlawful, but certainly crossed boundaries. I agree with Pat. If he was Rome trained, he was probably taught to do that by other staff and seminarians.

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Bishop Pat, St Luke’s Centre, Manchester, may possibly be the next scandal. Looks like a very catastrophic mess up North.
Crosses both Roman and Anglo Catholic realms.

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Pat how much did Fintan Monaghan pay off his two former seminarians and did it comply with professional conduct. Tom Deenihan pays Kevin McElory a monthly stipend for his bodily services in the past and now his silence.

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