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PRIESTS – NOW AND THEN.

I wanted to be a priest from the age of 4.

From the age of 8 my parish was Mother of Divine Grace  Ballygal, Dublin.

The first PP was Fr John Pierce, later Canon Pierce of Rathmines Parish.

Pierce was a very well turned out and dignified looking man with a reputation for being holy and a little fussy – but a really good man.

Our  curates were Fr Joe Collins,(1924 – 1979) a Kerry man, and Fr Michael Lambe.

Of the two Fr. Collins was the most spiritual but both curates did trojan work building a completely new parish.

I was greatly modified by Frs Pierce and Collins and particularly wanted to be a priest like Joe Collins who combined prayerfulness and community action.

Father Collins later went on to be PP of Donaghamede in Dublin and was the founder of the now famous Father Collins Park – an environmental project 40 years ahead of it’s time.

None of these priests ever talked about “alter Christus” or ontological change. They were good human beings bent on serving God and others.

When I went into Clonliffe Seminary it was generally a place of good behaviour, prayer and study.

I was aware of a very small number ( 2 – 3) out of 120 who were actively gay – but in the discreetest possible way.

I had absolutely no sexual encounters of any kind in Clonliffe – 1970 – 1973 and when I was asked to leave in 1973 for “immaturity” reasons the college president BishopJoseph Carroll said that “morally he is above reproach”. I know this now after Diarmuid Martin gave me copies of my file.

In St John’s Waterford with 60 seminarians I only knew of 1 who messed about in a homosexual way.

I was modified by the priests there too – especially Monsignor John Shine and Father Tony Hayes the Rosminian.

How we have we, in 50 years, got to the stage where seminaries are now gay whore houses – with both priests and seminarians involved.

What kind of system has produced Paul Prior, Michael Lomasney, Chris Derwin, Rory Coyle, McCamley, Gorgeous, King Puck, JP Lyttle, etc, etc.

And why are these men so into seeing themselves as “alter Christus” and ontologically changed?

Jesus never got up to what they are getting up to.

Is the alter Christus thing a cover for something else? – the carnal masquerading as the pure?

Is it an actual mocking of spiritual realities?

Can readers please help?

What has gone wrong in the last 40 / 50 years to turn generally good men into orgiasts?

189 replies on “PRIESTS – NOW AND THEN.”

Bishop Pat,

You and Rev. Byrne have more than one thing in common! You both revered the same man.

Rev. Byrne started the petition (along with some parishioners) to have the park named after Fr. Joe Collins. The council wanted a more generic/non-religious name. Rev. Byrnes petition won by a landslide. Subsequently, Archbishop Diarmuid Martin was asked to bless the park when it opened in 2009.

See:
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/news/new-wind-turbine-park-opens-in-dublin-1.771936%3fmode=amp

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Father Collins died in 1979 when Gorgeous was only a twinkle in his daddies eye. I would like to see proof that Gay Mickie had anything to do with such a campaign ?

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“ The archbishop noted that the community had named the park after local parish priest Fr Joe Collins, who died 30 years ago.”
The Archbishop references that the park was named 30 years after his death. The timeline seems to check out.
1979- Fr. Collin’s Death.
2009 – The park is developed and named after him.

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Hi Pat,
Do you have to degrade the guy further by calling him “gay mickie?”. To play devil’s advocate – would you call yourself “gay patsy?”. It seems inherently homophobic to refer to gay people only by using their sexuality. Are we not much more than that?
The poster @9:11 was merely pointing out that Byrne played an important role in helping to get a priest recognised for the work that he did; a priest that you look up to! There is no need to take it as an opportunity to make a jibe at his expense. It comes across as petty. We all know your feelings towards him, there is no need to take it to that kind of place.

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My understanding is that Joe led the campaign in the 1970s to keep the land in public ownership.

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Bishop Pat,
Yes, you are correct! The park was informally known as Fr. Collins park for this reason. The original land comprised of six GAA pitches. When the tender was made for the redevelopment, Dublin City Council proposed that the name be changed. The local parish council (which included Byrne at that time) started a petition for the name to remain the same. The Archbishop references this because it was at the height of the abuse scandal. He was surprised that locals still wanted a public park named after a priest. This only shows the level of respect and reverence they had Fr. Joe Collins in that area (Rev. Byrne’s family included).

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Thank you for that. I believe the land had been “common” ground since medieval times. Fr Joe had the ability to add spiritual presence to community projects. He was probably the one priest that made me want to be a priest. Sad he died at 55.

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Could we please join in prayer for Alex the kidder?… “Dear Lord, we pray for Alex the kidder, especially since her red-face and hot flushes have become acutely incessant! May the radiance of your light and truth shine upon her like the rising sun – but leave off her face, Lord, we humbly pray. Amen!

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It was monastic land stolen by the Prots and given to Dublin Corporation, which still holds ex-monastic land.

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Bishop Buckley, you have the most beautiful voice. I tuned into your mass one of the days, and your homily was lovely. a lovely way of delivery. thank you

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No Not Vatican Two it is just very bad leadership.

Vatican Two wants a People’s Church but the Bishop’s want to be C.E.O.’s

I would hate the day we went back to the Old Mother Burke style or 1962 Mass.

Hopefully when the results go back to Pope Francis about the 1962 mass then that will be the end of it not ever diocese has it.

Sadly this virus is going to have a big telling on the Church as only 33% will be allowed in at once and guess the Bishop’s reply…. Just have more Masses on a Sunday Shocking money grabbing Bishop’s

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10.32
You find it impossible to post without mentioning the word ‘bishop’ at least twice or naming a particular one.

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10.32: A very cynical take on Bishops suggestion for more masses. It’s about accommodating the usual numbers who attend. Our Sunday congregation at weekends is 1500/1600 . With restrictions about distant ing etc…we can only accomodate 150 safely and comfortably at any mass. We will do our utmost to respond to parishioners who are loyal and regular church goers. This will entail adding 2 extra masses at weekends and initially people will be naturally cautious on return. We will respond. You’d be the first miserable critic and cynic to complain if we didn’t respond or had to wait for a later mass, if you attend at all. Your kind of cynicism comes from an empty head. Thank God that parishioners are so kind, supportive and caring.

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Vatican 2 and what happened afterwards surely?
For example Vatican 2 said priests must say the breviary in Latin and would have to have a dispensation to use any other language. I can count on one hand the diocesan priests I know who do this.
On the other hand, I have read that a whole generation of priests (in Holland, as I read about it and I’m afraid I don’t have the reference to hand) were trained with the expectation that celibacy would be abolished imminently, so didn’t bother being celibate and told their girlfriends they could marry soon. This is clearly way above what the council intended.
I see the history since the sixties as being the reins were let go of and all sorts of people experimented way beyond anything the council said. This tendency was reined back under JP2, and I think a major reason church attendance plummeted was that people quite reasonably expected things which weren’t going to happen because they’d been told they would and they were hoodwinked.

As far as priests go I think a lot of the men trained before the council were unprepared on any level for what came afterwards. They weren’t ready for the responsibility and emotional effort needed and many left. My perception is that this is more the case in religious life which had been very regimented and suddenly went wild.
Then as now, the church does not have a magic key to successfully live a celibate life – and certainly fifty years ago would not have been able to talk to seminarians about the need for strong friendships and other non-sexual relationships to provide human contact, the need for the priest to be at home with his own emotions and the way he interacts with people.
The church has been strong on warnings but weak on the things which stop humans going mad, and certainly has never been able to deal with the reality of lots and lots of masturbation.

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9.35pm.
Not Vatican 2. It was well long before that, the rot was setting inside the church. Think it was papal infallibility although I could be wrong there. There were sex abuses in deaf school back in 30’s, 40′ s, 50’s as that was before the VII. heard stories from elderly deaf people now decease re abuses going back to 20’s to 50’s. Abuses was around far much longer even going back to 1000 AD. but it has grown bigger and larger as times goes on. Church sort of dysfunctional and out of touch as its becoming more resemblance to the big business corporations such as pope as its CEO and all bishops are line managers. Cardinals more like senior managers. That’s not what christ intended to be. Christ was about people and community not bemoth church organisation. Church needs lot lots money to run it like oil smoothing machine. They have the track of themselves, lost track of their original missions, they lost the sense of where they had come from and what they originally stood for etc.

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Many factors have contributed to a particular malaise in priesthood. I have been inspired by many priests I first worked with in the late 70’s early 80’s – wonderfully good, prayerful and psychologically well balanced men. They set a very high standard for me. I thank God for their witness. Fr. Collins was a remarkable priest and is well remembered still. I think men (not all but most) ordained in the 60’s and 70’s somehow had a greater understanding of the ideals of priesthood. In seminary I was aware of 1 or 2 who had homosexual tendencies but I never witnessed any misbehaviour of a scandalous nature. I think having a good spiritual director was a helpful support and reasonably good men on the staff was also a positive influence. In our present climate being a priest is very difficult and challenging. I am glad I have 40 plus years behind me. I would not do it again. I would explore the real meaning and essence of being a Christian in a Christian community and seek to resemble more the early Christians. I believe the present model of priesthood and church is deeply broken. I am inspired by many priests and often wish I had their tenacity, positivity and prayerfulness. For now I endeavour to create, along with parishioners, the best Christian community possible. All during this pandemic I have found immense caring and kindness from so many parishioners for myself and for one another and have felt very grateful, in a way unimaginable before, for priesthood as I live it with and for parishioners. I have been greatly challenged, but I think we need a new Pentecost in priesthood and church and we cannot do this on our own anymore. I take comfort in the words of Jesus for this Ascension Sunday: “I am with you always…till the end of time..”.

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You had a good living out of it but your heart is not in it. If you had integrity you would return to the lay state and live that simple basic Christian community you recommend for others.

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@8.31am What exactly are you doing apart from pontificating to people and glibly carping on from the sidelines. Very smug and sanctimonious aren’t you?

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8.31: A trailer trash comment. I lived priesthood as well and as meaningfully as possible, grateful for the opportunities to minister to thousands. I still receive many graces from God in ministry. I live with integrity and commitment. I am fortunate that I have a creative and visionary mind and am delighted to use my learned resources for the good of parishioners. I merely reference to the almost impossible task of a completely new church and priesthood but we each have to remain faithful to our work, ministry in Christ, parishioners and prayer. It’s a challenge and I will face it with my customary positivity and imagination but it is a more difficult project in today’s landscape. After all my years the first ideal is Jesus and his gospel. Praise God….

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8.31: The comment at 10.03pm is a very honest and rational reflection, undeserving of your easy cynicism. Cynicism keeps us in a hole, an abyss and I suspect that’s where you are right now. Give us your big DREAM….otherwise shut up.

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I am fascinated/appalled by priests, usually oldsters of the ACP stripe who say, “let’s abolish the traditional priestly model, I wish I’d never been ordained, I hope no young people are ordained, we are all priests anyway” but don’t put their money where there mouth is and move out of the free house, stop the stipends and stole fees and sit in the pews instead of being the chosen one.
Are they like those two old cynics Bishop Joe Duffy and Mgr Paddy Corish who each, separately, said that “the Church will do for our day”?

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I just had an awful thought, caused by the ontological change and alter Christus stuff yesterday.
So the priest is alter Christus all the time. Does that mean when he is having sex with his boyfriend or a random man met in a cruising ground the other man is having sex with Christ?

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we are all ‘alter Christus’, even you! especially when you are on Grindr and on Fabguys and have poppers delivered to your house. Hypocrite 🙂
God bless the mark

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11:19 pm
What about when raping a child or when a bishop covers up crime while lying through his teeth? What about Vatican policy to cover up child rape by priests?
Is Vatican 11 to blame for abuse, corruption and crime within the institution? Was abuse, corruption and crime nonexistent in the institution prior to Vatican 11?
It’s been going on since Adam was a lad. No amount of spin will make a difference.
Things will never be the same again due to modern technology, not theology of priesthood.

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No, of course not ! There’s an exception for that. Can’t remember what it’s latin name is, but there definitely is a ‘get out of jail free’ card for this kind of scenario. Surely ?! The Church thinks of everything ! Just like it was able to think that priests who were inflicting the most awful sexual and physical abuse on children simply needed more prayer and penance and then they would be alright, and so they moved them around, covered up for them, and allowed the contagion to carry on. It was called coverup. What’s the canon law latin name for that, then ?!

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No because some of them are only the priest when they dress up as one – maybe that’s why they try to “make up” for it with lace up to their tits. I stress the word “some”.

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Thank you all for these thoughtful replies. The one about ‘get behind me, Satan’ while not intended to be humorous had me in stitches and rather tends to confirm in my mind the point I was getting at.

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So the answer is the priest isn’t Christ when cottaging? Makes a mockery of the ontological change though doesn’t it.

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Good priests I know of now. Father Patrick Sheehan Father Vincent Cushnahan. Father Paddy McCaffrey. Father Aidan Keenan. Father Brian McCann. Father Colin Crossey. Father Rory Sheehan. To name a few. Many more

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Would you describe yourself as a good Priest Pat or what Christian characteristics could you attribute to yourself?

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I think I would prefer others to make that judgement. I try to be a good priest by saying my prayers and helping all those I can. I think discipleship is not a pat on the head. It’s always a journey always striving.

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question for the blog. We all know that physical abuse was an aspect of times gone by, especially committed by clergy and the nuns, upon vulnerable children. Should those who committed this abuse be called ‘child abusers’, or is it a case of ‘ah, sure that’s the way it was back then’, and just ignore it?
its a conversation I had with a school principal last year. he told me a priest who once taught at the school was terrified of being sued for physical abuse, yet the same priest still has an active (albeit part-time) role (non-teaching) in the school.
What are readers thoughts? should clergy who committed physical abuse be prosecuted?

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4.45: I ask you: Should lay teachers who committed horrible physical and mental abuse on pupils be prosecuted? Why ask only about clergy? The physical punishment I and ither pupils received in the 60′ and 70’s was brutal. It was the unquestikned discipline then. Totally unacceptable, but I would sue the Dept of Education and Science: they approved.

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We all experienced that physical, psychological abuse at school. My worst teacher was sorted out by my Dad having a very serious word in his ear 🙂

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A@4:45: A@ 6:25 makes a good point, for some lay teachers too physically abused us. By the standards and expectations of today it was indeed abuse. But as I understand it, physical punishment was legally permissable in most jurisdictions at the time.Delineating when legitimate punishment became excessive and therefore abusive would, in those days, have been difficult except in the most extreme cases. And I certainly received and witnessed what I now know to have been excessive abusive physical treatment both for actual minor “transgressions”, and also completely random and unwarranted.
With the above in mind, and in relation to the era of my own 1950’s secondary schooling, I do not consider it appropriate to now prosecute such physical abuse except for the past most grave and conspicuously harmful and where there is incontrovertible evidence available.
Having said that I have often thought as an adult that if I had ever met a couple of those sadistic teaching barstewards, both lay and “religious brothers” I certainly would have been well prepared and able to “deal appropriately” with them.
An interesting reflection 60 years after leaving that school: I well know the present principal who has invited me back several times. I have declined, for I want nothing to do with it.
One of my former teachers there was and is a veritable gentleman, now frail and in his 90’s whom I regularly support as a volunteer for a charity. It’s a pleasure to do so.
Isn’t life strange betimes.
MMM

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12:26am “Shout louder and hire better lawyers! McMahon is a hypocrite! He preaches a Christ who declares that his followers must aspire to a holiness that goes beyond the scribes and pharisee and the pagans who look after their own, while conspiring with and in the manner he condemns!

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Catholic Church lost their sense of who they are, lost sense of their real mission, they are off the track now. They lost their roots what I mean was historically church purpose was healing imitating jesus call of healing. They don’t do that anymore, it’s all bout money, inflated sense of power trips, not thinking about their own people but themselves. So priesthood no longer a desirable vocation for many as it was in the 60’s, 70’s mentioned above. Met some good priests especially rural priests before I went to institutional schools for deaf boys. One priest in first school wasn’t popular, bad tempered. Nearly no body spoke of him well. Then got transferred to 2nd school where Vincentian father’s ran the chaplaincy. When I looked back now it was a dumping ground for bad or problem priests cos they knew we were the voiceless. Anyway, it was mixed 1 bad and 1 good. One of them tried to get me to consider priesthood which I refused point blank cos they were blind of the abuse going on inside school. First priest I met was fr Gallagher who had a drink problem. My late mum told me to avoid him as I understood. But beneath the interior of that priest which didn’t register with me until many years later. When a deaf girl now adult told me that fr G abused her in confession. She turned into drink and nearly became an alcoholic. I remembered her drinking heavily which I didn’t understand that time. But she did report it to the Abbess superior (Dominican) order as that nun refused to believe her cos she was a boarder. It was until day pupil who reported it straight to her parents instead of the Abbess nun. Then fr g was transfered again as I found out many years later that he was moved around a lot before fr g went to school for deaf girls. Even a good Vincentian priest who replaced him stayed silent as he never spoke about him. Then he was eventually replaced with a priest with a roving eye for women boobs. He broke the seal of confession by reporting my and others sins to a certain Christian brother. He got booted out after we told that certain CB that we would be waiting for him. Instead they sent that priest to school for deaf girls again just like the bad priest sent there. He was ogling young girls teenagers boobs which made some deaf girls very uncomfortable. Church never learn re their mistake cos there was a pattern easy for us to spot. Also Catholic Church have lost their relevance and taught wrongly. Catholic Church bishops and cardinals became a kind of pharisees which opposed the path laid out by jesus. Catholic Church no longer relevant in people lives now except for some. Me think Catholic Church in Ireland is gone but not gone yet until maybe 30 to 50 years time. They would revert into a minority just like after famine where they closed the gates (see the movie ‘the field) to their own people who badly needed it. Now again they have the gates this time of pandemic of cov19. It might not be the same again.

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It is the height of abuse to shuffle a serial abuser to a deaf school. Probably assuming that deaf people can’t speak so his crimes would not come to light.

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10.49am.
Dont assume that we can’t speak. Assumption is mother of all p ups. There are few deaf people who can speak. You assume too much re can’t speak as it’s lazy thinking. Catholic Church MO of dumping bad or serial sex abusers onto the ‘easy targets’ just like deaf schools/boys /girls, working class, poor area where poverty was due to lack of education so that we don’t know how to raise the matter and correct way of reporting. Catholic Church in my experience never dumped bad or serial abusers into rich area where there is no lack of education and also money talks. They rich area were well able to raise the matter and fight etc.
Bishop of Dublin removed the vincentians from the deaf community afterwards.

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@Deaf Guy,
I’m totally not assuming that, I would think it was the dumpers assumption, pretty much the same as your comment 😉

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That is an ignorant comment. @ 10:49. Out of the Dark Ages. Of course very many people who are deaf can speak.

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8:31 am
The moving around or relocation therapy still goes on. No considered for the victims.
No pastoral response to victims other than resorting to lies and lawyers.

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3:10 pm

That is true, DG.
Working classes don’t have nor didn’t have the financial resources to legally challenge
cases. Nor do they or did they have the network of influential connections to threaten
those who abused power whether in the church or civil society.

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3.10, 4.40 I back you. Nonetheless in the changing times there have been two fascinating additional ramifications:

1. The English speaking world will revert to its Basil Hume-style love affair with the Vatican. You tell me I’m wrong if in two years from now, Oakley, McMahon & Egan haven’t been helped to miraculously appear to get a grip. The seminary merger will be implemented in just the right timing to not be to Nichols’ credit.

2. Some diocesan clergy are under dual influence namely from “exotic elements”. This comes in handy when they are posted to rich areas and the fight ensues. I myself saw how “some people” “love a good scrap”!

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I think Pat it is a lack of Prayer in ones life. If a Priest is a man of Prayer he will find strength and courage in his ministry and definitely not be tempted by Satan or give into Satan. That’s what it comes down to. PRAY.

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3.30am I think you hit a nail on the head. People have always congregated in groups good and bad. Where are the sociology gurus and do they pray hi

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What have Priests been like in Ballygall since Fr Joe Collins. Has Ballygall had many Vocations to the Priesthood in past Years ?

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Between Gaynooth, pin ups, poppers, cock ups, cover ups, sauna sessions, no confessions,
frills, thrills, Mother Berks, clerical perks…..
The priesthood is rapidly becoming the creepshood!

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I hear the North coast motorbike toilet priest is going mad because he can’t get out with the lockdown and police patrols.

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Wrecked mission priests used to get dumped on a certain presbytery and when a manic PP moved in he coerced some of them and wore out one who actually liked him at first.

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– Serial and ultra convoluted dishonesty about liturgies.

– Loss of the real subsidiarity and respect that existed prior to celebrity adulation.

– The generation Newman strengthened got wiped out in the Great War and the RCC hasn’t recovered its sense of principle for living.

RCC is now rigid wishy washiness, plus nothing. The best of hearts suffer attrition of nerves.

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Archbishop Lefebvre hit the nail on the head when he traced the crisis in the Church back not to Vatican II but beyond to the French Revolution. Notions of the ontological superiority of the priesthood are linked with other concepts of “difference” viz the Divine Right of Kings – NB even Charles will sooner or later be not only crowned but “consecrated”. Clearly Modernism, as correctly feared by Pius IX and Pius X, and the principles of Liberty, Fraternity and Equality, swept away both First and Second Estates, as the Revolutionaries saw correctly that the clergy were as incompatible with the emerging Modern world as the feudal system. However, whereas monarchies have either disappeared or been deconstructed, priesthood remains as an anomaly in the modern world: it is as if one were to try to saddle a cow – it is incompatible with human dignity. No wonder Old Mother Burke wants to turn the clock back, as Vatican II, by talking about the People of God and encompassing all people of goodwill both inside and outside “the system”, was applying modernity to the Church itself. So, I would suggest you have Mother dripping with lace and jewels on the one hand, and Pat – who sets an example for all of us by trusting his own integrity, AND that lovely lady from the other day enacting the Eucharist – on the other.

I predict a small rump of die-hard traditionalists, just as there are those who still cling to the Jacobite succession, and continued decline of the institutional Church, as people simply learn to value and trust in themselves and realize that they don’t need it.

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If its a small group and one cardinal why does it trigger you so much? The majority of Masses said in the world today are the new rite, the majority of priests say the new mass, the majority of Catholics prefer it, but still just the thought of one cardinal retaining something of the old religion that was removed at the Second Vatican Council keeps you posting about it. Just dont look at the trad blogs and you wont see anything in mainstream Catholicism that you wont like or agree with

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My point was that there are two models of Church. One promoted by the SSPX and Cardinal Burke, among others, will always appeal to a self-styled faithful remnant, and I am not too bothered about them. The other model is mainstream Catholicism itself which is in free-fall because it tries to marry an essentially unchanged ( or even enhanced viz “alter Christus” ) model of priesthood with modernity. That is an impossible unworkable combination. The cracks of the Vatican II model were apparent as soon as the Council had barely concluded with the débâcle over Humanae Vitae. My prediction then is that we will have more intentional communities, such as Pat’s Oratory, or people, such as myself for one, who will call it a day and opt out altogether.

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Astonishing now to read this report of only seven years ago:

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/weighing-up-a-life-in-the-priesthood-1.1375840

What, I wonder, does Father Purcell have to say for himself now? Inevitably Michael Byrne features, and though I would not wish for this to turn into another opportunity to have a go at him, there are several indications already of future fall-out. NB Michael enters Maynooth aged only 19, yet, as immature as all of us are at that age, is confidently pronouncing on PERFECTION! If that is not anticipating a crash … ! Then, of course, with the full approval of his Vocations Director ( aka Father Purcell ), he neatly dodges the question of celibacy. How much better would it have been for him and everybody else, had he announced there and then that he was an unashamed gay man and was looking forward to integrating his sexuality with his formation? I should coco! YET I wager that there was nobody either at Maynooth or including his own Vocations Director who was not fully aware that Michael was a confident gay man. The result of that institutionalized dishonesty was the car crash that ensued.

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12:40

Perfect, crap!

The turnaround was in reverse, a downturn like never before, with seminarians behaviour making the red tops and The Irish Times.

You couldn’t make it up.

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Folks, Dont let us forget that much of the abuse of children and in institutions by priests, Brothers and Nuns was pre Vat 11.

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I find Byrnes answer to be whimsical, cunning and knowledgeable. He does not give the usual pius tripe that we hear on here so often. He does not refer to himself as an “alter christus” for instance!
He is making reference to scripture. Jesus does not call men to be celibate, he calls men to be PERFECT. Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect – Matthew 5:48
Diarmuid Martin must have trained him in the art of diplomacy because he was able to dodge the question while answering it in a way that was not definitive. 12:40 – I think you may have underestimated him. The answer went over your head.

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@ 1:47 pm
I didn’t underestimate him. I suggest, his answer could also be called, sneaky.
He couldn’t call himself an “alter Christus” as a seminarian.
Unpack ‘perfect’.
He side stepped a question on a core problematic issue in the priesthood, namely celibacy.
I believe Archbishop Diarmuid Martin subsequently removed his seminarians from the seminary, which, correct me if I’m wrong, is in his own Archdiocese? Why so?
Because his seminarians were attaining perfection or at risk of attaining perfection?

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Well, in scripture τέλειοι is the word which is used. If you unpack the word it means to be complete. Barclay argues that the previous verses made clear that man’s function is to love, and anyone who does that absolutely can be considered perfect.

1) Barclay, William. The Gospel of Matthew: Volume 1 Chapters 1-10. Edinburgh: Saint Andrew Press, 1975.

We can deduce from this interpretation that the reason God calls every person to be perfect, is because, every person in is called to love him and one another. Yes, his answer is sneaky but at the same time it is Theologically very sound.

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Perfection lies not in right conduct, which is impossible for the, er, ontologically imperfect, but in the maintenance of the DESIRE for perfection.

We take into the next world not our sins, but our desires to do sin’s opposite: love unconditionally and forgivingly.

Read Romans 7:21, in which Paul, unknowingly, makes this very point.

When we desire God (to love in the way I described) then God can fill our hearts and make possible our heart’s desire.

Purgatory is bootcamp for forming such desire, if it is not present in a person at death; it is nothing more.

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1.47
Of course he ducked the question, you wilfully blind apologist for that…that ‘man’.
Celibacy didn’t worry Byrne because he was as queer as a mooing crow: he had NO interest sexually in women.
But the fact that Byrne declared a worry about ‘perfection’ expressed just how immature the clown actually was: moral and spiritual perfection in not in our gift. His answer was a red flag to the fool’s belief that he could bring himself to that ontological state simply by trying hard enough, by being sufficiently self-disciplined. Absoute, narcissistic claptrap! And a pointer not only to a present mental dysfunctionality, but to an even greater moral and spiritual one in the future. And time bore out this truth about him.

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6.46 & 6.31 (corny popcorn allusion) We thought today was different. What kept you – overdosed on the bubble & squeak this morning?

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7.05
Are you schizophrenic, or just inarticulate?
Would you ever, for love of gentle Jesus, learn to post coherent comments? They don’t have to be intelligent, or even erudite, just coherent. (Sigh 😩)

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1:08 pm

Absolutely, +Pat.
Maciel created a ‘religious order’ to supply him with young boys.
The Vaticans first investigation into him was in 1955-56.

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I have always found concordances helpful. As do I appreciate Willuam Barclay who was Church of Scotland.

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4 :32 pm
Is there a difference between lust and love?
While Jesus did not call men to be celibate, did Jesus have anything to say of lust?
Nowadays, it seems to me, the line, – they will know we are Christians by our love,
can be altered to – yes they will know we are Christians by our lust!
Maybe it suits an agenda.

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Pat what is the central reason for the shift of abusers being seminarians Maynooth sexual predators within the seminary and the recent revelations of them using the Dark Web to avaide the State Authorities. What is the core reason.

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1:35 pm

What do you think!

It’s furtherance of an apostolate for budding men in black to evangelize.
The Dark Web apostolate.

What else could it be.

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SPOTLIGHT TV TONIGHT.
If you’ve not yet seen the Boston Globe RC clerical sex abuse film, it’s on BBC2 tonight at 11.20.
MMM

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A piece of Pellsh** was saying Parolin is not corrupt.
UK is a top Vatican target for its “image”. Abandon hope if Gallagher gets posted here.
(This also ties in with 1.35 and 1.47)

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MMM
You should watch the movie named ‘Maxima Mea Culpa’ silence in House of god was powerful,quite hard hitting documentary , shocking as it makes you physically sick. It had demolished RCC.
Its bit similar to my experience in school for deaf boys but that school in movie was quite brutal and sheer predatory instincts that fr Murphy Irish American ran it with iron fist.

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4.44

What’s the matter, priest? Baulking at the thought of your evil institution’s being disgraced nationwide tonight … yet again.

Bring it on, BBC2!

These men are the clerical pimps who called their institution the ‘one true church’, in the process looking down their nose at other Christian denominations.

There is little in life more pleasurable than watching the self-proclaimed mighty’s being brought into the moral gutter of their own making, and then watching a boot’s being driven into its ugly face, again and again. Oooooooooh!

Popcorn, anyone? 😎

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@4:44: Good; your comment implies you have checked out the viewing time. I hope you watch it and learn something from it. I’ve already seen it, but on this occasion will record it for later viewing. It’s worth a second viewing.
MMM
PS. Haven’t you heard about VCRs. Check it out. By the way it doesn’t refer to Vacuous Clerical Responders
MMM

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5.36 and especially their relationship with the politicians, chief constables, old school tie “degrees” or whatever.

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5.36
Nah, priest or Cathbot! You just don’t don’t want any further transmission of the moral degeneracy of your vile institution.
It almost has me in the throes of orgasmic pleasure, watching the evil Romanist institution’s being called out publicly, and shamed for the moral caricature she has made of Christ’s assembly.
Dirty, Romanist *$#@!😠

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2.25 – also 12.26, 4.40 –

Meantime Zollner drones on how we actually ought to get fairly stern about this moderately soon.

Conveniently, Pell can point out that “some” Vatican officials “think” the recent witness was used. (Admitting a distraction.)

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Hi Pat, looking back over my life as a priest – my goodness I am so grateful of all the wonderful and beautiful people I have met, and have ministered to. Anyone was welcome in my parishes (still are when we re-open!), and I have always preached an inclusive Gospel. Many have come to me over the years after a bad experience with another priest in the confessional or at the church door after Mass. I have never made excuses for them, in fact I would often telephone them and challenge them directly.
Pat, my point is that it would have been easy to lose heart along the way, if it were not for good and wise and earthly priests who guided me and encouraged me – who kept me in it. By earthly I don’t mean worldly, but men who were both human and spiritual. We have lost these men now to age and natural death. There are still some around, but they are rare. I remember them with fondness, as I know you do too.

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Eamon Martin and Eugene Sweeney are weighing up the possibility of disclosure their evidence of the current and former seminarians to the PSNI. Armagh has entered its darkest chapter.

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Bishop Pat, homosexual acting out was going on in St. John’s College after your time.
One student known to have been acting out while in seminary was ordained for Liverpool.

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Once ordained, they seem like nomadic cock Mongols, Bp Pat, going from one parish to another, or from cock to cock. Some are territorial and will defend his cock. However, once he is done, he will leave and move on to a new cock.

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4.57: A disgusting pornographic comment. This does not deserve to be printed. I’m afraid Bishop Buckley, you have abandoned any sense if moral probity and decency in printing this loonie bin’s porno, fantasy filth. Filth. I hope YOU, sir, choke on the next one you allow into your big gob!

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You know something – we would take away the root cause of a whole lot of what ails the clerical class and priesthood if our priests were woman. Simple. It would by and large solve the kinds of problems that seem to have beset the priesthood and the Church at one go. And please don’t give me all that cock and bull nonsense about alter christus and priests being in the image of Christ, and priests having to be male because Jesus was male etc. etc. Long since discredited and rebuffed. But, if you insist on just ordained men – unmarried – then all the problems and dysfunctional acting out that we hear about on this blog is just going to go on and on. You are welcome to it !

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I think the inclusion of men and women would help. But some the nastiest rows I have seen have been in convents full of women. At root, we must do something to stop any group taking over.

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The Sisters of Mercy Enniskillen only have about 20 nuns left, all old, but they have about 10 separate, expensive bungalows and private houses scattered around Fermanagh, often with just one nun in each dwelling, because they cannot live together in community without blazing rows and factions forming.

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5.08

I agree.

Substituting one power-hungry group for another is not going to work.

Sadly, humans, by and large, will always seek to dominate others when they become power-holders in any institution. This is why a written constitution is so important, and revisable at intervals, to rotate leadership.

The primary stickingpoint in the Romanist institution is the abject failing to understand priesthood as sevitude. Were it understood in this way, it might attract fewer candidates, but at least these would be of a higher moral and spiritual disposition.

No wonder priesthood today attracts the likes of Michael Jack Byrnes, Sean Jones, JP Lyttle’s, and the assorted ragbag of obnoxious Romanist priests who post here in defence of priesthood as it stands, and of the morally odious institution they serve over Christ.

(Ack! There I go again, like. 😆)

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7.17 to demonstrate the weakness of your arguments the dialectic of Gramsci (stealing of affections) works a treat every time, especially in churches. And written constitutions both the non-revisable and revisable variants, have proved extremely useful for ignoring!

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7.34
What on earth are you talking about? 😕
Which of my points is, in your opinion, weak?
And why do you consider them weak?
Your post is not a counter-argument.

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8.22 those referred directly to your opening sentences:
“Substituting one power-hungry group for another is not going to work.
.. a written constitution is so important, and revisable at intervals, to rotate leadership.”
I’ve seen them not work.

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5.33: The bungalows you speak of were communities of 3/4/5 at one time, you idiot. Nuns die l8ke the rest of the population. These nuns bought their homes after selling larger and unsafe convent buildings. I hope the good sisters can enjoy their lives and I know they are involved in worthwhile activities, long after lives of teaching and nursing and missionaries. What is it about begrudgery – alive and well in Church haters.. As for 5.04….allowing women priests. I agree but don’t delude yourself into believing that with married priests or women priests that all our problems will be solved. Far from it. We need a more visionary and imaginative, less hierarchical, clericalist structure.

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You know nothing about the Enniskillen Mercy nuns @6:21. The big convent in Enniskillen is still there, it wasn’t closed, there is a handful living in it, the rest live as single spinsters in £150k houses and luxury waterside apartments. They won’t even combine the houses and live together.

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6.51: It’s nine of your business, you auld moaning minnie. Grow man balls and get out from behind your lace curtains…village gossip.

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The blog was actually interesting today without Magna hijacking every conversation with his absolute drivel. I enjoyed the conversations people were having. Time to sign off now. Bye Pat

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Magna has deep psychological and alcoholism issues. Does he not realise that we all see him for the loser he is? I mean, he still lives at home with his parents; what age is he? Can he not cut it in the real world and rent his own place? It is clear he does not have a job, so he must be receiving welfare – he has the audacity to ridicule priests for leeching off people!?
😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣
Come off it Magna

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8.01

😅😅😅

You wish! 😆

I’ve come across more reliable horoscopes in the tabloids. 😄

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7.45
Aww! (Sniff 😢)
Will Bad Pat not play by YOUR rules, priest?!
Mores the pity every other priest doesn’t do likewise.
You’re pathetic, the lot of you. The only personal quality that outdoes this is your utter, unadulterated USELESSNESS.
Spongers. 😕
(Oops! I’ve done it again, like: upset the hyper-sensitve. Balls are a rarity among Romanist $#@*. 😄)

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7:45 & 8:01 8:04 & 8:07
Tuggers anonymous are out in force with nothing but abusive vulgarity to offer.
Professional Christians showing up the profession as usual.

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7.17: The Supreme Pontiff of Hatred has surfaced after a two day hangover….and….We get the same old shite. What a waste to have your brain so far up your reared, Myth Maggie!!. What a truly sad psycho you are!

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Convent of the Dominican Sisters (Dublin)
Sunday, 26 August 2018
Quotes from Pope Francis to Irish Bishops before leaving Ireland.
“A recurrent theme of my visit, of course, has been the Church’s need to acknowledge and remedy, with evangelical honesty and courage, past failures – grave sins – with regard to the protection of children and vulnerable adults.”
” In these years, all of us have had our eyes opened – painfully – to the gravity and extent of sexual abuse and the abuse of power and conscience in various social settings. In Ireland, as elsewhere, the honesty and integrity with which the Church chooses to confront this painful chapter of her history can offer an example and a warning to society as a whole. Continue on this path.”
“Do not repeat the attitudes of aloofness and clericalism that at times in your history have given the real image of an authoritarian, harsh and autocratic Church.”
Following Pope Francis visit to Ireland, I contacted my bishop only to be patronized, misrepresented and lied to.
So much for fine words and apologies from Popes.
By the way, the Pope forgot to mention the- grave sins- in many cases, were
also serious criminal acts under Irish criminal law.

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Magna thank you for making such an intelligent and pointed comment. It has obviously had an effect on the servants to the bishops 🤣

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8.04: Myth is appropriate for that Carta one, her brain forever up its’ source of caca, the backside. It’s sad that someone who seems intelligent and well read – Wikipedia style – should write so destructively, abusively and with evident dysfunctioning faculties. This mongoloid Mags is stuck in a time warp of hatred and vindictiveness because she was fecked out of seminary and continues allow anger and mad jealousy reign in her heart. We see the results on this blog, a complete disregard for herself. Has lost all dignity and has discovered the only love in her life – the reflection in the mirror!! Crack, crack….crack..

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9.05🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🍋😆🎃🎃🍄🎃🤗🤗🤗😎😁😁…a great laugh.. Marge will be fuming…🎀🎀🎀🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣…

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When did ‘playing the game to be ordained’ become a trend in clerical circles?
Pre or post Vatican 2…
(Just askin’,like)

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8.28: You obviously are a church hater too. Once you align yourself with Magna, one word sums you up: HATER. Whoever those commenters are that you disappdove of have got your tongue in a twist. They are correct. Magna = madness = hatred.

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9:49 pm
And you are displaying gross immaturity viewing the world, the church and others
through a simplistic lens of black and white categorization. Very immature.
Are you doing the work of the Devil on the quiet?

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Eamon Martin has broken off all contact with his Maynooth Seminarian. Wilson has resorted to beg Fr. Mullaney to stop Eamon’s actions again. it’s a mess.

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Pat, a question for you. Why do you give some gay priests nicknames. Is it that you are afraid to give them their real name.
Reading about your days in Waterford from time to time, you give the impression that all was rosey there. This is not the case. I know of one semenarian who was there in the 1970’s, he would have been there for some of the time you were there, and he has said that there was a good bit of abuse there, often more mental abuse than sexual. I dont have a problem with sexual contact (be it gay/lesbian or between two hetrosexual’s) between two concenting adults, but have major problems with mental abuse.
There has been gay men in Waterford as well. I think you referred to at least one yourself in a book you wrote. I read somewhere, it might be by you, one priest used to walk around with a cassock on and nothing underneath it.
There is also a number men who went on to be ordained from the seminary in Waterford who are gay. I know of one who is very openly gay and has lived with a partner, and I have my suspicions about others who have studied in Waterford and their sexuality.

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