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BASIC CHRISTIAN COMMUNITIES – A HOPE FOR THE FUTURE?

Encyclopedia.com Views 1,649,282Updated May 10 2020

Basic Christian communities (English term for comunidades eclesiales de base, communautés de base ; also known as mini-parishes, life-communions, neighborhood churches, and grass-roots communities) are relatively small (in comparison with parishes), homogeneous groups of Christians who share common interests, values, and objectives; who search to emphasize primary, inter-personal, ongoing relationships; and who view themselves as ecclesial entities.

Basic Christian communities are the form in which growing numbers of concerned peoples are structuring themselves as an alternative or a complement to the parish model of Church.

Their common interests, their possibly living in the same area, and their limited numbers (from 8 to 40, some would say 100) allow members to develop close personal relationships.

Generally these groups seek some concerted impact on the world and undertake apostolic options as a group.

The rhythm of sacramental life varies according to group discernment and the availability of a priest or deacon.

The purpose of basic Christian communities is not to be parish societies that provide services to the parish, to be study groups, or to be movements infusing church life with one special quality; but rather to hold their own identity as an ecclesial unit.

Such factors as discontent, the unavailability of a priest, impersonalism, and the great distances between the members of some rural parishes have been catalysts for the origin of some basic Christian communities.

Among the positive features of these communities are: the experience of authentic community and close supportive relationships beyond the family; effective community supports and challenges to the members towards more meaningful service; a setting in which faith is deepened by the critique of the interaction between reading the Gospel and the struggle to live as Christians; promotion of involvement in contemporary society; rapid development of many and varied ministries or services among the members; and a questioning of the parish as the only model for Church.

In the late 20th century basic Christian communities became a major element of the pastoral practice of significant segments of the Catholic and Protestant Churches over the world. They are a cornerstone of much Latin American pastoral work. In many areas of Africa and Asia they are likewise a key for pastoral development.

PAT SAYS

For many of us the RC church is a failure and a lost cause. How could we ever trust it again?

But those of us who believe in Jesus and want to follow him know that part of that must be done in community. Only hermits are Christian loners – and most of us do not have the gifts (or neurosis  ) for the life of a hermit.

Personally, as a Christian, I have need for community and community prayer, as well as for being alone and solitary prayer.

I am also convinced about the Sacraments – even though I am well aware they were a development.

So how can I be a Christian, have access to community prayer and Sacraments without having to buy in to things like hierarchy, canon law, clericalism and all the corruption and abuse I see in the church into which I was born?

And, I feel no call to be a Protestant of any kind 

I do think that BASIC CHRISTIAN COMMUNITIES are the way forward. In one sense, that is what we have had here in Larne since 1986 – a catholic community, with sacraments, that has no canon law but responds to those who need us as best we can, while making many mistakes as well.

I think a BCC should consist of between 20 and 40 people – small enough for everyone to know each other and build relationships.

It should avoid completely having any “leaders” and all matters should be based on the decision of the members, with a willingness by all to accept the majority opinion – but keeping a community welcome for dissent and dissenters.

The community emphasis should be on everyone developing a deep personal relationship with Jesus  through prayer, Scripture study and spiritual and human sharing.

The community should have an absolutely deep rooted commitment to personal and social justice and should be involved in justice campaigns affecting the greater community in its area. A BCC should, at heart  be anti establishment or non establishment – as Jesus was.

BCC’s AND THE SACRAMENTS

If the BCC is not under the control of the RCC it will either not supply them with the Sacraments or even go out of it’s way to stop them having the Sacraments.

A BCC cannot always depend on their being a benevolent priest coming to their aid – and such a priest would find himself being in trouble with his bishop or religious superior. So they have two choices:

PERFORM THEIR OWN SACRAMENTS – which of course the RCC would seem “invalid” – but in God’s eyes would be perfectly valid and grace giving.

OR AVAIL OF THE SERVICIES OF INDEPENDENT CATHOLIC BISHOPS AND PRIESTS.

That would be a decision for each BCC.

I think the BCC road is a word very worth considering by any Christian or group of Christian’s.

As always, I welcome readers thoughts.

148 replies on “BASIC CHRISTIAN COMMUNITIES – A HOPE FOR THE FUTURE?”

So you feel no call to be a Protestant of any kind? 😅
SFJ! Your Romanist bigotry could not have been painted more conspiculously, Pat.
At heart, you are still a filthy, Christ-betraying Romanist LIAR.

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11.02: More profanities and blasphemy from Magna. I hope that he will not be allowed to dominate the blog today as his utterances of late have dominated this blog and it descends into horrible nastiness, primarily from Magna and his presence devalues and demeans those who desire constructive debate. As for his curse ifvthe Holy Name if Jesus – says it all about his mad dtsfunctionity. Pat, for the sake of decent and loyal contributors, you must exercise total censorship of this repeat hater.

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11.02: Magna, basically, you are an ignoramus. Go and get a grip on your dysfunctionality. You are not normal. Above all need to calm down and learn to respect others and cease being an abusing fool.

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1:22 pm

Many people are involved in covering up, silencing exposure of corruption in the church. These people are afraid of the truth. MC, can be over the top at times in his use of colourful language. However, he’s a threat, in more ways than one, to clerics posting here.
That is why they want him blocked.

The comments from some clerics display appalling disgusting vulgar filthy attitudes.
God help the people who ‘cross’ their paths.
We’ve had more than enough abusers in the priesthood in Ireland, the acknowledged ground zero of clerical abuse worldwide.

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Pat, the blog is ruined and made unreadable as soon as MC starts. Once again the blog is hijacked. I wish he would set up his own and do his boring and repetitive rants there.

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1.42, I expect the rest of us don’t care why a section of clerics want Magner blocked. Most of us hurt for us – for the children we knew, the children we know now, the current pillars of society who, flawed though they are, don’t need one round of shenanigans from Rome too many.

Magner Carter posted one comment this year that made sense, about the bishop Sipe served a letter on. I missed it at first. Australia doesn’t get a look in.

Since last night we know a great deal about Magner. Pat please add your evaluation of his comments, far more often than you have done. I can’t be the only one that deeply loves the power of good your blog can do to this world.

Doyle, Nichols, Pell should have blown Rome out of the water decades ago, to save themselves and us. Did any foreign Cardinals really believe Cormac was in remotely good odour?

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3:53
Alf, I know from personal experience the inhumanity perpetrated by the church committed in the name of Jesus Christ.

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4.19 – it is violator of consciences, polluter of minds, liar as to doctrines. I was subjected to this and I witnessed others being subjected. (Apologies for getting side tracked.)

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Pat, that opprobrium from MC is the greatest endorsement of your views and life. You must be doing something right. May the Lord bless you and keep you.

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Pat, it intrigues me that you promote BCC’s frequently yet you have only one in Larne. I don’t know how many belong to your Oratory – perhaps you might tell us. Numbers of course aren’t important. What matters is that people who belong to our local Christian parishes must be a true Christian Community in Christ. I believe this is what we must focus on. The early Church lived this ideal and we should attempt to return to that vision. However, it is not quite so easy as you suggest. Why, I wonder, did your vision not capture the imagination of many? I ask this sincerely because out of your experience you must be better qualified to guide us. I do believe that many priests with good parish teams are endeavouring to focus on creating a parish that is a more prayerful, caring and compassionate community. This pandemic is altering many conceprs, beliefs and models of being a church community in Christ. Our future model after this crisis will be very challenging. Let us explore this relevant issue without rancour, insult and deliberate offensive narratives .

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Not all BCCs desire or feel called to establish other BCCs.
Here at Larne we have been engaging in a process talking about our future – including when I’m gone.
That process was interupted by Covid.
We will take it ip again soon.

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Will your home be handed back to the RC Diocese when you’ve gone Pat? I’d love to see it taken over by a successor of yours in the years to come to
continue with your good work.

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Pat,
Can we expect a blog on Miss Magna Carta? It is time to expose her to the world! She talks a big game, now let us see how she feels when she is exposed.
Thank you.

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1. The original hermits were single people who lived on the fringe of a town and others would actually visit them a lot. Anchorites and some other variants tried to be lonely on purpose.
2. Where is there objective reporting on BCCs as all I come across is idealistic puff pieces?
3. The new religious high demand movements have proclaimed themselves the authentic BCCs or the improved replacement for BCCs.
4. The only way to go is to abandon sacraments (other than the two lay-administered ones, baptism and anointing of sick) due to their bad effect on consciences PLUS sever all links to Re and Ouellet.
5. I admit I haven’t yet looked into Bp Pat’s conception of his sacraments. There is merit in being in apostolic succession and out of communion with those listed.

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“all matters should be based on the decision of the members, with a willingness by all to accept the majority opinion – but keeping a community welcome for dissent and dissenters”
The way to achieve balance in this is to ensure small voices are always allowed and to often frankly reconsider majority ones. Ugly ducklings are black swans, often. Don’t paint “conformists” into corners.
As for establishment we should be non-establishment. Persons in authority often enough had a good word to say about Jesus and Paul.
We needn’t overpromise in respect of external commitments as a body if we don’t want to because our primary purpose should be to look after us as rounded, because it will shock us how few people will want to.

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I believe It’s time to expose the reality behind Magna. He talks a great deal, does little and now we need to know if there is any genuine substance behind this creep. Its madness is dangerous with or without drink. Isn’t it awful what the rejection from seminary and denial of priesthood is doing to rhis twisted monster? As always Magna steers all attention to “itself” and destroys good exchanging of opinions. Pat, delete this virus for today. You don’t need this poisonous thing.

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9:26 am

Who would want to go near a seminary or go forward for ordination in an institution culpable
of inhumanity, all in the name of Jesus Christ. Get a grip, you silly man.

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10.21: You sir, by this comment don’t have much of a brain. Magna goes way back before present times. He would never be accepted for any role, responsibility or ministry of caring for people, particularly the young and vulnerable. He would be as bad, if not worse, than the clerics he condemns. Bus evident madness makes him unsuitable and undesired. He needs psychiatric treatment.

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At least the C of E is looking ahead, rather than just burying its head in the sand and hoping that all will carry on as before, which is the default RC position. Some RC clergy might get a shock in the near future when they find themselves surplus to requirements or not able to fit the job description in any new Church that emerges post Covid19. RC priests have always thought of it as a job for life, and that they would continue to be looked after, and employed, no matter how good or bad they are at the job. They just needed ‘to be’, which is a good excuse for sitting on their arses doing nothing, not being accountable, I think there is change on the way, and there will be a lot of shocked clergy not knowing what has hit them !

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11.59 You must be out of touch as the Irish Media has covered it time and time again and even interviewed the Archbishop of Dublin.
Charlie Brown ex papal nuncio was told to slash the number of dioceses in Ireland which he did not do and therefore the current papal nuncio has started the process so it will be interesting.
Pope Francis has only appointed Archbishop Martin Administrator or Dromore so it looks like it maybe joined to Armagh.
The new papal nuncio to the UK will be given the same task with Wales being first and over the next few years Scotland and England.
So the plans are well ahead and even in Dublin it is well known a third of the parishes will need to go and some just now are in clusters awaiting the new Archbishop of Dublin.

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It is clear during the current situation that so many people, individuals, groups, communities, institutions etc. are having to re-imagine themselves and to think of new ways of being. Some of this will be for the good. Sometimes it takes a shock to the system for people to be able to get over things that they have held dear and thought important, and to realise that actually the essentials of what they cherish, believe in, desire etc. can be achieved by other means, and they can leave behind the things that have held them back in the past.
And, so it will be with the Church ! Already, I believe, the narrative of painful sacrifice and being denied what has hitherto been seen as essential, is wrong. Actually, what is happening is that once people get over the initial sense of loss, they find new ways to live their faith. We have seen how people at a local level are connecting with one another in all sorts of innovative ways, so that they can be good and loving to each other and look after each other. We see how people in their own time and space are making time for quiet and reflection and prayer, and making a direct connection with the Almighty, unfiltered by a priestly caste that has dominated and controlled people and their spirituality for too long. I don’t think people are going to want to lose these new ways and experiences of living their faith. There will still be time and space for community activity and worship, but I think people will have come to realise that there is more to their faith than MASS ! The Eucharist will be something to look forward to as a special celebration rather than a routine.
All of these things need to be considered by the bishops and the priests, because the way the faithful are going to interact with them in the future is about to change. What will they do ? What will be their response ? I expect that they will want to carry on as before, because change will be uncomfortable for them, so there will be an attempt to corral people back in to the institutional, clergy dominated Church. I don’t think people are going to want that to happen. So, dear Fathers, consider carefully what is happening and if you want to have any relevance at all in the new future, then you need to go with the flow and re-imagine yourselves and how you minister. Listen to the Spirit. Listen to the Sensus Fidelium.

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What would Jim know about such an event! He’s a bishop groupie. He must have mentioned 4 this time. At least his writing skills have improved since the days he kept An Post and Royal Mail in business for commission, advising all and sundry to write to nuncios, archbishops, bishops and cardinals etc.

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Sorry I do not know what I do know is the Archbishop gave notice that he wants to go on his birthday 8th April and does not want to hang around.
Rome has the three names and was planning to announce it however Covid 19 arrived so things have been delayed.
However Cardinal Ouelett Head of Bishops met Pope Francis yesterday so it could be announced very soon.
But the Archbishop wants to go now and this has happened before but what has not helped is the two Auxiliaries have retired as well so it will be a New Archbishop and no Administrator.
The three names are suppose to be Paul Tighe, Brendan Leahy or Kieran O’Rielly transferred
Dolye (Northampton) gave them a months notice after telling the people it would be about 18 month’s and he was replaced before Hopes (East Anglia) who is desperate to go as well.
Pat you should know clerical whispers then are you not the only one in the Oratory Larne

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Jim S does talk a load of crap. He even has the eat of the Nuncio (roflol). You couldn’t make it up.

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I think a blog exposing Magna Carta is what is needed. I would like to hear from people who knew him and hear the truth about his departure. He likes to live in a fantasy world on this blog. He even attacks the blog owner. As you said Pat, “exposure is the only thing that works on these people”.

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Could you do a blog on potential people he could be? We should be able to piece it together with information he has provided.

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He’s an alcoholic schizophrenic who was kicked out of RCC seminary for trying to bed other students. Ban him from this blog and get him help.

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10.49
Is that the ‘Expose Magna!’ nutter?
But-but I thought so many of you already could identify me. You all keep saying you can. But if you clearly can’t when saying you can, what does that make you if not liars?
That’s Romanism: it produces liars by the barrel full. It has to, since it always has so much to conceal. And this could be named in one word:Truth.

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2.16: Magna = hater = liar = bigot = dysfunctionality = evil. A mad guy indeed. A soul in need of therapy. When any person rants so aggressively and so frequently, It’s about attention seeking. It’s the tactic of a bully and an abuser, one who seeks domination.

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2:06

Your comment is an example of objectifying dehumanizing delinquent collusive abuse.

Typifies abusive dynamics in groups.

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One false alarm was the line mooted here some weeks ago that MC was a former OSB. That’s not correct. The particular former Benedictine is a bright man with a background in Early Christianity. So must look elsewhere.

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So Magna,
Why not just present yourself to us blog readers? Stops all the fuss. Transparency is the thing. (Unless you advise Boris Johnson).

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Pat you may be interested in consensus process used by Quakers to make decisions. It aims to get to a consensus rather than a majority decision – although it has the disadvantage that consensus can take a very long time to arrive at.

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I had a boss who was a Quaker. He was a total chatterbox and I often wondered how he coped at their mostly silent meetings.

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@12:08 pm
You, canon, need help, with multiple comments under different guises.
You seem a bit obsessed. Are you alright?

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I’m fine . I post under one name only, unlike you “Dr”. Doubt if your qualifications extend beyond a cycling proficiency badge 😂

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The future of Armagh is bleak with the abuse exposure of its seminarians. Why is Armagh the single Diocese with the highest percentage of seminarians and priests who are abusers and predators. What is the central reason for this and it is continuing.

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@1:38

I have my doubts about you, “canon”.

Or, maybe you are an aspiring cleric, still in “training”? The games clerics play !

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12:15
Puerile and infantile writing style shows you are a teenager. Hopefully you are not also a seminarian. A little more life experience required.

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I think you need to move your blog over to Bluehost and leave wordpress. Censorship will continue to happen!

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For a anyone know the guy who was dismissed from Maynooth during the time of Gorgeous, Marshall and Wilson. He is the one besotted with all three who keeps posting on here about them and Armagh Sems in general. It seems he got knocked back by them and can’t move on from that and his dismissal for total immature behaviour. The same immature behaviour he continues with on here. Any names?

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He wasn’t even a sem. He doesn’t know the correct names of the buildings in Maynoooth and where certain places are in the buildings. I wonder if its the madman James McConnell, against whom a restraining order was needed.

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Read somewhere that RCC are bit similar to mafia re OMERTA, organised religion as opposed to organised crime, networks, money laundering, threat or blackmail by means of spiritual abuse.

The person who made this comment resigned from Catholic committee when it went uproar.

It sounded right re his comments. What do u think?

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2:23

DG, read books by: Jason Berry, Michael D’Antonio, Richard Sipe, Fr. Tom Doyle, David Yallop,
Chris Moore, Mary Gail Frawley-O Dea, Thomas Plante, Phil Lawler, Richard Scorer, Martin Ridge, Matthew Fox, ….to name a few….

Some can be accessed free on archive.org

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3:55
I’m afraid you don’t know what you are talking about. Maynooth seminarians are normally first educated in Maynooth University.

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Patriarchy and hierarchy : the twin evils that have undermined Christianity through their toxic progeny, clericalism.

Any movement towards basic Christian communality that incorporates these is destined to be another, spectacular flop, just like its forbear, Romanism.

(Tch! It’s elementary, like. 😀)

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3:05
No bother, DG.
Check out: catholicwhistleblowers.com. snapnetwork.org ;
bishop-accountability.org ; voiceofthefaithful.org
Go to their links section for further info and resources.

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4:19

I do know what I’m talking about.
Maynooth University students, et al , are subsequently brainwashed in Gaynooth.

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There are very few sems in Maynooth now, fewer than 25, and no more than 1 or 2 are undergraduates at Maynooth University.

Most do the sem course in St Patrick’s College because they lack the A level or Leaving Cert grades to get into Maynooth University, whose entry requirements are among the lowest in Ireland but despite that, are still too high for today’s seminarians.

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1.42pm: What planet do you live on? Are you Magna’s ither half? You speak in his defence, thereby being an abuser, a hater and a bigot. Magna personified thecwird in his poisoned humanity. To support him is to support his vulgarity, filth, ignorant bullying and deeply flawed personality. Of course hebhss no interest in TRUTH OR JUSTICE but because of his rejection from the seminary, thus denied priesthood, he wages a vengeance ever since. He is the LOSER and his vitriol and venom do not servebtge cause of survivors. Magna has only one love in his life – the broken and cracked image in the mirror. No one else matters to this twisted, perverted fool.

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2:47 pm
Is that so….
So, what does supporting the institutional church make you?
Did you know, abuse survivors in New York, are currently taking legal action against the Pope?

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3.05: Join Magna’s fan club. He gives out free gin 24 hours, seven days a week. You are a fellow hater. Hatred is abuse.

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3.37
You are a biblically ignorant fool.
Hatred is not abuse.
The Bible states that God himself hates certain things. Is God, therefore, an abuser?
The institutional Romanist Church, through her laws and her priests, has committed terrible, hateful deeds, like raping and sodomising children and then concealing these crimes to protect the institution’s reputation and the priests involved.
Hatred is the correct reaction to hateful conduct.

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5.10
They may have no jurisdiction over that man, but they do have power to seize Vatican assets in The States should a court judgement go against that evil state in the pope’s name.
God speed the litigious action of New Yorkers against the Unholy See!
God is already exposing Romanism for its false Christian credentials.

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2.47

What’s the ‘c’ word (‘thecwird’)? 😕

What’s, erm, ‘hebhss’?

Speaking of interest in ‘truth or justice’, have you? Any interest in them? Or are you nothing more than a liar and hypocrite?

You said of me ‘because of his rejection from seminary, thus denied priesthood’. Can you prove any of this? You’re not telling the truth about me; you are lying, like others on here .(Romanist priests, I suspect.)

Pat, I’m calling on you to block these people, in the interests of truth and justice. They are lying about me, and I believe that you suspect as much. None of them has ever provided even a sliver of evidence to support the outrageous alegations that I was expelled from seminary and denied priesthood. Nor can they prove who they claim I am.

Ibelieve that these are the people, liars, who have repeatedly called on you to block me, and you appear to be listening to them.

I have lied about no one.

So will you please block these liars forthwith?

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3.34: Magna, your hate buttons are easily pressed into action. With hatred comes lying, bullying, vengeance – all the traits that make a human being ugly and repulsive. When you are on the defensive, you are losing. Stay in your dark, petty and miserable cave.

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“Magna Carta” it is absolutely FARCICAL for you to accuse anyone of being a “liar”. 😂
You are a troll who writes vicious fiction and spends your days posting hate mail on this blog site. People are free to believe whatever they like about an anonymous troll with such a reservoir of malice vituperating in some fetid closet somewhere on this planet.
If people decide you are a bitter ex seminarian who got kicked out of Maynooth, or a mischievous priest writing anonymously from who knows where, or a large pink elephant crapping in a field in Co Down, then they can 😁
Get over yourself you spineless, faceless, gutless old troll. 😆

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4.18
Name the lies I have told. You seem certain that I have, so you shouldn’t have any trouble naming them, and shaming me. There’s your incentive: the opportunity to shame me on this blog. You have no reason to hold back. Tell me the lies I have posted.
‘Fiction’ is not spelt ‘l-i-e’. You need to purchase a dictionary, and to use it.
No, it is not ‘alright’ for posters to ‘decide’ ( ‘lie’, in another word) that I was ‘kicked out of Maynooth’, especially since I have repeatedly denied this assertion.
Pat, I hope that you are paying attention to the nature of such posts at 4.18. If you are prepared to listen to these people, liars, while ignoring their conduct against me, it does not speak well of you.

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2.29: The twin evils of hatred and vengeance have woven their way into your DNA , Magsie. You are now an endangerment to yourself. A bitter twisted old queenie sod, brain damaged by drink and mentally and emotionally retarded through unresolved issues of childhood and spiritually defunct. When you spew out such caca, you must be prepared to receive it back in barrel fulls!

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3.17: Bitch, you should take heed of your own words. You are crazier by the gins you consume. But soon it will take your life. Adios!

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3:17
The girls are having a bad hair day !😃
Covid -19 is getting the better of them😎 The hair colour is fading.😝

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Bishop Pat, the post at 2.52 is a further example of the lies told about me.
I am neither ‘old’ nor a ‘queenie’. Nor am I seeking ‘vengeance’.
Yes, I do hate…the institutional Romanist Church and her obedient, self-serving priestly caste; considering the nature of some posts here by, I suspect, Romanist priests or seminarians, that should hardly be surprising.😕
My brain is not ‘damaged by drink’. Nor am I ‘mentally and emotionally retarded’ through ‘unresolved issues of childhood’. (Where do these people get this nonsense?)
If there is even a degree of spritual dysfunctionality in me, blame the Romanist institution in which I was raised. So many souls have been damaged by priests in this now globally discredited institution.
Seriously Pat, you need to call more people out, not just me. If questionable statements are being made about anyone, then you ought to challenge the authors to prove their claims, or to witdraw them on pain of their being blocked.
I am tired of the fact that you have repeatedly allowed certain posters (likely Romanist priests or seminarians, or their apologists … ‘Cathbots’) to make, unchallenged by you, outrageous and unverified statements (lies) about me. Need I remind you that you yourself were once the object of such hatred and calumny by Romanist priests? Try to recall how you felt at the time.
Liars tend to shout loudest to substutute for the absence of veracity in their claims. This is what many posters are doing on your blog against me. Please have them put up, or shut up.
In the interests of truth and justice.

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In the interests of truth and justice say who you are, MC and then whe will know whether you got the boot from Maynooth. Until you do I’ll believe that you are a bit ex-sem who turned to drink, verbal abuse and self-abuse.

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No, ‘Peter Greene’, you utter and ignorant fool. The victim of liars does not have to vindicate himself or herself.

What kind of man are you, apart from being ignorant, and a fool?

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Don’t whinge, MC, if people call you a old, washed-up, drink-addled, seminary reject Queen. Prove them wrong by saying who you are.

If you refuse to do that, you can put away your tiny violin.

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The weirdow over the estuary used to get me drunk when I was a teenager and make heavy passes at me, even put his hands down my trousers on occasion. I feel sure that’s why he was hellnound on ruining my aspirations to ministry, he did it to another who is now ordained (he, too, is now having terrible issues from strings this dangerous narcissist is pulling–or to put correctly–he is having people pull on his behalf. He is ‘clever’ like that.
Of course I won’t officially be reporting this because I will just get nowhere; it is hard enough defending myself from Erstwile and his vocious dogs.
God forgive me, but I hope his passing is very quick. I say this for tbe sake of other peoples lives being ruined of effected by him, he is evil and ruthless. A total control freak.

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Recap:
As to substance, we’ve had Quakers, slashing dioceses, probable prosecutions, mafia – thank you!
Anyone got any pointers to my query of 11.31 p.m about BCCs? And any more views on doing without sacraments?

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Alf, just become a Protestant. They have very small congregations, no priests and no sacraments. All there, waiting for you, if you would untie Mother Church’s apron strings.

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Too many people I see won’t see the need (or buy the lie that the high demand movements are a superior kind of protestant) so I hoped Pat’s inviting us on this topic would help more readers.
High demand operatives in sensitive locations help entrench rot.

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M’Lods,Ladies and Gentlemen To one and all a greeting hi. Human beings have always gathered in groups No group is perfect. All to be done is invent and re invent the wheel until we come close to the face of God whom we don’t need to define and own to recognise

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Magna at 5.35: Are you so enthralled by your narcissism that you don’t want to accept Peter Greene’s truthful observations and relevant challenge? Are you so morally bankrupt that you don’t realise your own ignorance and almost total self destruction? Man, get HELP. Begin by becoming sober!!

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7.32
Another fool, like ‘Greene’. (By name and by nature.)
Accusers must prove their accusations; the accused are not required to prove their innocence.
Aww bless! God look kindly on your naivety.

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Pat, did you not tell us not long ago that this “Magna Carta” once sent you an email? Did it not identify itself in its email address?

Isn’t it strange that it doesn’t trust even you with its identity despite the fact that it once felt it could only approach you on its knees? (remember that gem?).

You are so hospitable to this troll – allowing it free range on your blog – and yet it bites the very hand that feeds it. That’s wicked old trolls for you.

Most people post anonymously on your blog it is true but most people are not obnoxious, boorish, bullying, vicious guttersnipes, like this MagnaTroll.

Truly, indeed, as was recently observed, it’s like that aggressive drunk down the local who makes a nuisance of himself, butting in to conversations and plonking itself into company where it is unwanted, until someone gives it a bunch of fives or frogmarches it off the premises.

It really is time you took action against this troll. It dominates your blog day and daily. I think it actually is a priest behind the “composite” – a drunken, feckless, ‘moocher’ (it seems to like that word, it’s called projection), who has nothing to do all day except surf the Internet, drink and sit on your blog.

Your blog is a better, saner, kinder place when this thing goes off in one of its huffs, or when it is sleeping off a feed of booze.

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Anon@ 8:06: From your articulation you seem a sensible person, unlike many others castigating Magna: their expletive laden semi inarticulate rants show little evidence of intelligent understanding. Can you explain why there is so much vitriol directed at Magna and your own hostility towards him? Some might say that he’s a target because much of his criticism is factually accurate and therefore threatens the comfortable status quo of RCC vested interests. On the other hand it could be said that it’s his betimes caustic expression that garners so much hostility. What’s your own view?
I’m asking this after a conversation with a friend, who also reads Pat’s blog. She is bemused at the constant repetitive personalised attacks claiming Magna to be an alcoholic, a “rejected” ex seminarian, psychiatrically deranged etc etc, all, she points out, without any concrete evidence. She is a practising C of Ire. prominent medic, and has a view of RC clerics formed both from personal experience and what she sees on this blog. She explains it by saying that in reality, “They’re generally an uninspiring and pretty dim lot anyway.” By that she refers to the monotonous constant repetition of allegations concerning Magna. One of her highly salient observations is that by repetitiously complaining of Magna dominating the blog his detractors simply add fuel to the fire by setting themselves up as cannon fodder.
I find it difficult to argue against her observations, even if I was so minded.
I look forward to your views.
MMM

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8:06 pm
This individual is obsessed.
Dehumanizing, by calling a person, an “it”, or “thing” , an object, is appalling.
That attitude resulted in six million deaths in WW2.
I’ll say no more.

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8.51: You needn’t say no more!! The truth is that this dope, Magna- “it” plays games with others, abuses and bullies through nastiness, vulgarity, hatred and lies. When Magna respects others and behaves humanly and decently, only then can “it” be respected. You should study the abusive behaviour of this drunken bully a little more carefully. Don’t insult the Jews by deluding yourself into thinking Magna is an objectified victim. Magna victimises all on this blog: these contributors deserve sympathy, not this monster bully. Get REAL…

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9.46

You’re upset and agitated. Chill: take life with a little more salt.

It’ll improve your humour. 😀

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8.06: I agree with you. Many of us recently have expressed outrage that this troll is a bully, even against Pat. “It”, as you describe Magna, is essentially a coward, is morally and spiritually dead. It does not deserve special dominance on Pat’s blog because every time serious issues are presented and genuine opinions shared, this “it” intrudes in our faces, uninvited, like a stinking rat, a drunken, filthy bastardo, ruins all conversations. “It” may well be a cleric who fell into disrepute by arrogance, pride, laziness, bullying, dysfunctionality, drink, abusive behaviour and now hidden away for the safety of others, abuses all on this blog. Whatever or whoever “it” is – madness and a vile human being are apt in description. In jealous rages, a psycho.

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8.51

So your vice is watching too many reruns of Fr Ted?

You’ve confused me, from the graphic caricature in your post, with Fr Jack.

Here’s a tip for future viewing: Fr Jack is comedic fiction; he doesn’t really exist. 😀

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Troll Carta can dish it out but can’t take it served back. That Carta do not like it up ‘em. It do not like it up ‘em! 😆

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8.59
Oh! I can take it, provided ‘it’ is actually there to take.
Lies are not ‘it’, since what they express doesn’t exist.
It shows my arguments are irrefutable, all the same, when Romanist priests and seminarians resort to lying to challenge them.
God bless the Romanists 😃: they prove their lack of moral worth, and their incorrigibility, daily on this blog. And they show up the institution they serve over Christ
They make my case for me. 😄
Now THERE’S intelligence! 😅

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I agree with the troll comments Pat re. Magna. I am a priest and I like reading your blog. We are not all bastards. Magna gets on my tits and puts pay to any real and good debate. Might be worth not allowing comments if he is just gonna be a troll. But I would give him a second chance. Maybe this is the time. “Be half-decent, or don’t post”. Your choice Magna. What do you say? Otherwise I will just stick to my Tablet magazine and not read the Blog. His comments just get me down. There is enough to get us down right now! Pat, is one idea maybe you could draw up a code of conduct for the Blog? Hope you had a good Sunday, despite the obvious. Best wishes.

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Nearing day’s end, Pat, and not of those posters has provided a scintilla of evidence to support his accusation(s) against me. They all were given plenty of time to do so, but despite the apparent confidence of their statements against me, none could back a single word he posted. Not a sausage!
Magna is vindicated! 🎉
And the LIARS have been exposed. Romanist priests or seminarians, I suspect. Holy people, the kind to be trusted not to kiddie-fiddle. (And the rest.😕)
If yer gonna have a go at me, Pat, then deal also with the Romanists, the very people who would have driven you into the ground and not lost a moment’s peace over it. They lie almost as if it is second nature to them. They are moral snakes in the grass. Like their Father. 😨
How can anyone sensible consider that the Romanist institution is even remotely capable of reform when its priests, self-evidently on this blog, are incapable of being honest with others.
Even with themselves. 😕

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Pat ,
Have you ever heard of the Bruderhof community in Darvell, England .
I spent a week there as a guest . All guests are expected to help out to earn their keep . I worked from 7.30am to 5 pm.
An amazing Christian anabaptist community .
Well worth pencilling one for a visit when travel is permitted . Very genuine people living without leaders . One pivotal rule they have is that you just never speak badly about another member in gossip . If found doing so , the consequences are severe and you just publicly ask community for forgiveness .

I could go on and on .
I was thoroughly inspired by these Christian people

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They are worth writing an article about .
You would love a few days there – be prepared to work though for your bed and food , even as a bishop hehe

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