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ABUSED, BULLIED AND SUICIDAL SEMINARIANS.

Over the past few days we have heard of seminarians being bullied, including sexually bullied in seminaries.

CORK PRIEST – SEMINARY BULLYING LED TO SIUICIDES.

2009

By Claire O’Sullivan Irish Examiner.

A LETTER has been sent to the president by a Co Cork priest informing her that “vile, cruel and oppressive” bullying in Irish seminaries led to numerous suicide attempts by student priests.

The priest, who has long called for greater transparency around clerical sex abuse, told President Mary McAleese that “abuse as reflected in the Ryan Report is not confined or limited to children in religious institutions in Ireland”.

He has sent a similar letter to the Vatican. “I studied in a Roman Catholic Seminary in Ireland from and the culture that prevailed there was vile, cruel and oppressive.

Emotional and psychological abuse was the norm and those who abused their authority realised fully that they were unaccountable and above the law.

Towards the end of my time there I was duly called in and told in no uncertain terms that I was to keep my mouth shut and take what I knew to my grave,” he said.

“When left that seminary system I realised that many would not have endured what I had to endure. I concluded that it would be a matter of time before some one would commit suicide,” he said.

The Co Cork priest informed her he knew of one victim at a seminary who attempted suicide and “left a number of suicide notes for members of his family, but the Church authorities never passed them on”.

He claimed in a letter that another priest, who had been bullied in the seminary, succeeded in committing suicide, but there was never an internal inquiry at the seminary.

“I suffered profound ill-health as a result of what I personally experienced and witnessed. Nobody was prepared to do anything about the abuse that prevailed. Even to report it to professors they were powerless to do anything about it. ….

The reality for many sadly was that the Church structure and system was not a safe place.” In the letter, the priest thanked the president for her public statement on the Ryan Report. “I am in no doubt but that your words of wisdom provided great reassurance to the unfortunate victims who were subjected to humiliating and degrading abuse and torture at the hands of their cruel oppressor who profess to be acting in the name of God, religion and Church. It was a shocking revelation for many but for the victims it was final confirmation of their reality,” he said.

MICHAEL DEEGAN TOOK HIS OWN LIFE IN THURLES SEMINARY.

PATS BLOG

An Irish priest serving in England is deeply concerned because, during his time there a fellow seminarian, Michael Deegan RIP, committed suicide in 1994 in St Patrick’s College, Thurles.

The priest, as a seminarian, had heard from Michael that he was being bullied and stalked by homosexuals within the seminary.

These people were putting gay pornography under Michael’s door during the night.

The priest brought the pornography to the college authorities.

Nothing was ever done and poor Michael took his own life.

In the case of Thurles and Michael Deegan he was being sexually stalked and harassed in his first year – when our English priest friend say the abusive material on his bed and took him to complain to Father Fogarty. That was 1991. He died in his third year when he was 20 going on 21.

CRISIS IN MAYNOOTH. FORMER THURLES SEMINARIAN DESCRIBES SERIOUS BULLYING.

Crisis in Maynooth: Former Thurles seminarian describes ‘serious bullying’

Sarah MacDonald August 08 2016 02:30 AM

A former seminarian at St Patrick’s College in Thurles has told of the severe physical and mental abuse he endured while studying at the seminary.

‘James’ told the Irish Independent of the bullying he endured at the seminary – including one incident where he had a bucket of dirt thrown over him by two people wearing balaclavas.

Outlining for the first time in full his experiences of physical and mental abuse almost 25 years ago in the seminary, as he embarked on what he thought was the path to priesthood, he said, “As I now recall that year, I feel so much pain and horror for what I experienced.”

“When I entered [the] seminary, I was living with over 100 students and priests and lecturers.

“These priests were there to guide us on our journey to ordination and help us discern what we truly wanted out of life. They would be our leaders, spiritual directors and brothers within whom we would place our trust and always be confident that they cared for our wellbeing,” he said.

However, instead he was subject to bullying and wrongly accused of a criminal act, which his accuser later admitted was a lie – but ‘James’ never received an apology from the college.

“The time for secrets has ended,” he stated.

The former seminarian revealed how he was forced to dress up in women’s clothes for a college variety show called ‘The Henry’ within the first week of entering the seminary in order to entertain the college president and the seminary’s priests.

“I was forcefully encouraged to put on a lady’s dress and wig and go out on stage and sing like that.

“I was absolutely mortified and hated every moment. While standing on the stage, some other students got a long pole with a hook on it and tried to rip the dress off me. I got so upset, I ran off the stage to the laughter of everyone present.”

His second memory of feeling shocked was the medical examination that all first-year students had to take within the first two weeks of arrival.

In the infirmary, the doctor was waiting for him.

“I thought I knew what to expect. The regular checks of blood pressure, heart rate, breathing, etc, were all done and I was getting a clean bill of health.

“But what followed was a shock. I was instructed to drop my trousers and underpants. I immediately questioned this. I was told by the doctor to just do what I was told. Once everything had been removed, the doctor immediately went about feeling my penis, something I had never experienced in my life to that point.

“I was now very scared and horrified. I did ask the doctor why he was doing it. He became very abrupt with me and said that it was normal practice for any student who wanted to be a priest. They had to ensure that I was a fully functional male so that, I, the student could fully understand and appreciate what I was giving up by taking on the rule of celibacy.

He further stated that this was in accordance with canon law. For me, it was a total intrusion of my privacy and almost a stripping away of what I held dear, my dignity.”

Other unhealthy, boarding school-type pranks constituted bullying, he believes. They included removing all his possessions and personal belongings from his room and dumping them elsewhere, which led to the breakage of a personal photograph of his late grandmother who had passed away just two weeks after he entered the seminary.

On another occasion a bucket of muck and dirt was thrown over him as he rang the bell for the six o’clock Angelus by two people wearing balaclavas.

“No one would help me, these future priests just laughed, saying ‘Ah, it was your turn this time’.”

The final straw came when he was accused of stealing money and questioned by a member of the local Gardaí. His accuser later admitted fabricating the story when ‘James’ confronted him.

The other seminarian said he felt so bad about it that he had considered taking his own life. ‘James’ told the dean of formation that the man was feeling suicidal and the student was put under 24-hour watch and later removed from the college.

“These events were truly the beginning of the end of my dream to become a priest. It killed my faith in people and destroyed what I had always held dear.

When people talk about abuse, I am constantly aware that abuse comes in many different forms, not always sexual. But it is the secrecy and failure to acknowledge fault that is the most damning thing.”

Any happy memories of his year in seminary are tarnished by the “serious bullying” ‘James’ claims he endured.

He added: “[These people] believed they had a vocation. My wish is nothing like [this] happens anyone again.”

‘James’ spoke out after a former seminarian at Maynooth alleged last week that a member of staff harassed him. The man made a preliminary statement to the gardaí yesterday.

He said that he will continue with his complaint and provide a formal statement this week.

“They certainly felt that a couple of isolated incidents which I mentioned did warrant investigation by them,” he told the Irish Independent.

“I will be meeting them next week in person to provide a written statement concerning the above.”
He said that a priest who was meant to be his “spiritual father” acted inappropriately towards him on a number of occasions.

He said that his faith was “severely shaken” and he suffered from a severe depression.

CAVAN SEMINARIAN MENTAL BREAKDOWN DURING LEDWITH’S TIME IN MAYNOOTH.

During Micheal Ledwith’s time in Maynooth a very junior young seminarian from Cavan was found in the middle of a severe nervous breakdown in the college chapel.

He had been a victim of sexual bullying and seduction by other clerics in Maynooth.

His parents were sent for and he was packed home without any explanation.

2018

WAS THIS A SUICIDE?

U.S. seminarian who carried cross at pope’s Easter Mass dies in Rome

ROME — Friends and fans called him a “gentle giant,” a faithful “prayer warrior” and a Clark Kent whose superman power was helping people grow in holiness and faith.

“I believe I truly knew a saint,” one friend wrote.
The written comments were among the hundreds of condolence messages, prayers and stories submitted to an “in memoriam” page on the RegnumChristi.org website for Legionary of Christ Brother Anthony Freeman of Houston.

The U.S. seminarian, who was a third-year theology student at Rome’s Pontifical Regina Apostolorum University, died unexpectedly at the age of 29. He was scheduled to be ordained a deacon July 7 in Houston.
He was found dead in his room April 2 after classmates realized he had not joined them for a scheduled outing. The university called Italian authorities, who were still conducting an investigation and autopsy as of April 4 to determine the cause of death.
He’d had supper with the seminary community April 1 after serving as an acolyte that day at Pope Francis’s Easter morning Mass, carrying the cross in the opening procession.

“They usually pick the tallest person” to carry the cross to give it prominence, and “he was tall and strong and to bear the cross was very symbolic” in hindsight, Legionary Father Aaron Smith told Catholic News Service April 4.

PABLO

This week we heard of Pablo who took his life after seminary abuse.

It would be good if someone could tell us Pablo’s story.

SEMINARIANS, BREAKDOWNS AND THERAPY / TREATMENT

I have personally spoken to a number of former seminarian who were very broken and damaged by seminary bullying, including sexual bullying.

Some of them needed medication. Some needed counselling. Some needed impatient treatment.

Some of them were sexually bullied by other seminarians.

Some were sexually bullied by seminary staff members.

Some of them will have to live for life with the repercussions of what happened to them.

And all this PURE EVIL happened because they decided to give their lives to God and the church.

All of this happened at the hands of those who claim to be servants of Jesus.

The only cure for all this is for every abused seminarian to make a formal complaint to the police.

And for each damaged seminarian to bring large civil cases against the church and priests involved.

119 replies on “ABUSED, BULLIED AND SUICIDAL SEMINARIANS.”

+ Pat, thank you for highlighting this issue.
Believe it or not, there is worse then what you covered in the piece above.
I’ll email you tomorrow evening to arrange our chat on Skype. Thanks again.

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Pat, I am horrified by the contents of this article. I’m not sure over what period of time you are referring to but if any death was of a criminal nature, police should be the ones to carry out investigations. As a priest I am shocked as I never witnessed anything close to this in seminary in the 70’s. I am very disturbed by the photo of a young man with a rope standing by a tree. Can I ask you to remove this photo. In the last 5 months I have officiated at four deaths by suicide, all by hanging. I listened to family members tell me of their discovery of a loved one being found with a rope around their neck. Their sharing with me the images of their realities haunts me, to the point that I required therapy. This photo is horrendous and I believe it may disturb very fragile people. If a daily newspaper printed this photo, there would be protest. I ask you to remove the photo. We can discuss the issues without this photo. I am surprised you printed it.

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My dear Pat.
I’ve been a priest a long time and I was abused aged 18 (as a seminarian) by another priest. I turned to the bottle later on.
But Jesus I was not going to let it make me a bad priest.
I have been a good priest.
Just very broken. And a liking too much of the bottle.
But I have brought a great many people to know they are LOVED by our great God. In a Catholic parish. There is still such Catholic faith in people Pat.
We just need good priests. We are lacking them so much.
I would love to see you come back. I would give my life savings to set you up back as a parish priest in an Irish parish.

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Dear Priest, Thank you for your heartfelt comment. I’m sure you have been a good priest and the cross you bear probably makes you an even better one. You have carried a lot of suffering.
As a priest my dream was 100% to be an ordinary parish priest doing all a good parish priest does.
And then I met a small man called Daly….

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7.32: Pat, stop BLAMING…had you stayed in the Catholic Priesthood you’d have been an awkward soul for your colleagues. It’s your nature. You are better where you are, carefree, do what you wish, live as you desire, free ministering to all and sundry…But do not continue saying you met a small man, Daly. Did he not suffer too from your behaviour?There are always two sides to every story. To say you desired to be a P. P. and serve well….that’s my desire always…but had you remained, are you saying you’d not now be a married man???

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I stood up to Bully Daly and gave him a run for his money. I was not the first priest he went after. But I was the last.
As for what I might have been……?
I know I am where God wants me.

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Fr Tom Fogarty was presented with the porn/evidence regarding Michael Deegan RIP. Fogarty has since denied this – he’s a total liar. Michael sadly died and the Seminarian who presented the evidence was got rid off overnight pronto in a cover up. Fogarty was a cruel Dean, another horrible man was Christy Dwyer late of Cashel parish but presided over by Willie Lee late of the Waterford See and Son of the Publicans from Newport

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I traced the name Sweeney. Beside the Glasgow two (one at the sadly named Goretti parish) we have one (ex-Wonersh and c/o Pease Pottage) who was in both Norwich and Hounslow (near Isleworth) with an accomplice from East Sussex.
Rings of persons having degrees of involvement and accessory knowledge usually include non-clergy as well as clergy (as throughout Minnesota, and in Chicopee, Massachussets).
The jailed seminarian from Burlington (arrested on the way to Mexico) had been taken on by Bernard Law’s old alma mater in Worthington, after 40 other seminaries turned him down. Don’t put your son in Worthington, Mrs Burlington.
Some folks aged 18-21 whom I knew, were approached by a fake priest in Lourdes about joining his “work”.

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1.44 Sorry you are out of touch Father John Sweeney IS suspended and C/O Diocesan offices due to complaints but was cleared it seems by the PF but + will not let him back as for St. Maria Goretti parish it has not had a resident priest since the issue in 2017.

I am sure if you google it you will see the facts.

And Glasgow does not have another father Sweeney.

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On the Glasgow archdiocese website clergy list there is a Fr John Sweeney and a Fr Anthony Sweeney.

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Yes it does. Tony Sweeney who paid for rent boys (google it). Retired but enjoys supplying. Jim Sweeney, Cross and Passion also worked in Glasgow for many years.

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Fr John Sweeney from Glasgow, now c/o Diocese tried get the knickers off a teenager he was counselling. She was of age, just. Google the details. Been stood down for 2 years and still being given accommodation and money by Diocese. The other Fr Jim Sweeney CP, from
Glasgow used to love the sauna scene. Also still in Ministry. Another Sweeney, Tony – blackmailed by a rent boy and allegedly liked his Curates to suck him off whilst wearing leather is retired but still supplies if anyone is interested.

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Pat can you give us a “special number” on Valladolid – pretty please ??? It was a bad place from the mid 1960s I’ve calculated.

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Pat you have been well informed about the Killaloe two cases of bullying and sexual assaults against two former recent seminarians who Fintan payed out. One has fully recovered to University and the second is under continued supervision from the HSE as high risk to attempted suicide and danger to others. Both of these lands were sexually and physically abused on numerous occasions. One belongs to the Polish Irish Community and the second a rural isolated area outside Ennis. Fintan and Iggy failed upon their moral duty to pass on the allegations to the State Authorities.

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The only time human life matters for that cult is when it’s in the womb.
Apologies for intruding, Pat, but have you made provision for what will happen to all the information you have on the church when you pass away? Not only to ensure the information is safe but careful use of this information could provide a marvellous memorial to your life and ministry.

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7.39 Bring it on we constantly hear this from you on here and I am sure + Eamon is really worried.
Do increase his work load by he has a big team working for him and Great Advisors and a First Class Auxiliary.
But you are correct his work load will increase due to the reopening of his parishes and the amalgamation of Dromore Diocese to the Archdiocese of Armagh and Dromore.

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10:31.

Jim S,

Who do you say you are? A self appointed official unofficial spokesperson on matters Ecclesial in England, Ireland, Wales and Scotland, omnipresent like an Ecclesial rash, or maybe on a kick back or a member of the company? Do tell Jim….

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Jim, go back to school to improve your writing skills and content.
You used to post here as the gay Irishman living in Scotland getting enough sex. Mentioning bishops in every post and nuncios – recommending people to write to them and keeping the Royal Mail and An Post busy.

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I have no doubt that there is bullying and harassment in some seminaries, and as a result there is collateral damage to individuals who are irrevocably harmed. Some will resort to self harm and to suicide.
In addition to bullying and harassment, there is also a culture of shame and failure when a seminarian is asked to leave or decides to leave. Still seminarians who move on are seen as failed or spoiled. Stupid, but it is ingrained in the culture. Some will succumb to this, even to the point of depression and perhaps self harm and suicide.
I have been in situations where I have had to live and work in Church groups and communities where there has been bullying and harassment. When you are in the midst of it you barely know what is happening, you try to minimise and protect yourself, not gain attention etc. Classic transference and denial. I lived with a group of men who each had problems of their own and there was a clear culture of sulking, temper and anger tantrums, shouting at people, undermining people, and just being impossible and unaccountable in behaviour which even at that time would not have been tolerated in other cultures of work and life. My tactic was to keep my head down, particularly by only going for meals right at the end of the meal time so that most of the others would have finished and gone, and so that I could eat alone and not be got at or harassed. Until I managed to get out. Interesting to say, a good number of these bullies ended up in unhappy circumstances themselves as old men.
As with sexual abuse, emotional, psychological, and physical bullying and harassment is something that church people try to coverup and minimise. Generally they are able to do a good job, but it is interesting that + Pat’s post is beginning to reveal this hidden dysfunctional culture that is still alive in the Church.
In the world of work in which I ended up, this stuff was ruthlessly rooted out, and there was not place for this kind of culture. The Church lags far behind. No wonder there !

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Why does any sensible young person enter a seminary? Best years of your life being bullied, having constant psycho-analysis by untrained, often disturbed priests and nuns and a high risk of sexual assault.
After all that you either get ordained before leaving ministry within five years, or you are an ex-sem with shattered faith, debt, a worthless degree and are afraid to tell people you were in a seminary because Catholics pity you and secular people with think you are a paedo.

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They’ve not heard of Holy Spirit – 2,000 yrs behind there – nor Nicomachean Virtues – 2,400 years behind Aristotle there. This is the basis of Vat II! We were told we would be told what the beliefs would be! And we haven’t! Yet! Love from Rita – or do I mean Audrey.

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Pat in your homilies would you call Jesus a racist. Fr. Mullaney is a deeply troubled suppressed man, the problem for Mullaney is that Jesus did not endorse gay marriage. Mullaney is a advocate for gay marriage and gay Priests.

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That particular address of M. Mullaney was a success. Here you are six months later speaking about it – even if you have not understood the point of it. How many sermons are still spoken about months after they were delivered. Well done to the preacher!

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Institutional stress hi. Wouldn’t one imagine a church regime would be supportive and formative not crippling and toxic. I believe the Holy Spirit needs to rattle the 📦 box. We need more than tongue action hi

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11:55 am

Pope Francis, the Archbishops, Bishops conferences and/or civil authorities need to establish an inquiry into these matters pronto. It is outrageous morally,ethically and legally.

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11:55 AM

Good Afternoon hi fly.
Begorra fly one would imagine alright but imagination is a take on reality.
Often a chasm between fantasy and reality.
Toxic waste contaminates. Like a blocked septic tank unless sorted
sewage will eventually explode filling the house with the stench of colourful caca plus.
‘Tis coming out the Kahazi so ’tis. Truthful tongues help the Holy Spirits job of cleansing.
Are you with Him or against Him.
May the Force be with you.+
Bye bye fly hi.

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Authoritarian, Machiavellian, insecure, insensitive and nasty, holier than thou rectors, bishops, catechists drive their subjects to psychological distress. Where are the servants and the true Christians who admit their own weaknesses and support the sheep entrusted to them. I know one man who behaves like this. I respect him more for humbly opening up his true nature. I know a Benedictine Abbot from Switzerland who says that only when clergy openly confess of their weaknesses will the problems in the Church be addressed. Most are afraid to expose their true face to the world and where there is fear there is no real love.

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As long as they don’t go the route of sneering that they are just as morally equivalent as the rest of us (in an ontologically superior way) without admitting they too were duped by the vacuousness – the abolition of Holy Spirit, of virtues, of sound boundaries and dynamics.

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” There comes a time when one must take a position that is neither safe, nor politic, nor
popular, but he must take it because conscience tells him it is right. ”

” There comes a time when silence is betrayal. ”

” Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ”

” The silence of the good people is more DANGEROUS than the BRUTALITY of the bad
people. ”

“It is not the violence of the few that scares me, it’s the silence of the many.”

” The arc of the moral universe is long but it bends towards justice. ”

” The end of life is to do the will of God come what may. “

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Paul Prior was a deeply deranged man. Prior was fascinated with male anal penetration. During one of my meetings Prior became aroused and asked me did I ever try Bot or Top. I went blank. Prior stood up to return to his desk but he clearly had an erection in his trousers.

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What on earth possessed the SJs to take him on in the first place ? Surely, they should have known all this stuff when they did some due diligence when he applied to join them ?

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Pat, I am glad you removed that photo of a young man with a rope standing by a tree. Utterly unprofessional and insensitive of you. Do you not know about subliminal influencing? You should have the decency and honesty to tell us why you removed it after a request from me earlier….

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2.31: If I was close to you now Magna, I’d smack you, behaving as usual like a bold little child…You should stop drinking…for your well-being.

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2.40: I have already expressed my abhorrence of all abuse, including abuse of any kind on seminarians. You should read the blog properly. Your comment is silly and inane.

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@ 6:22

Most decent human beings abhor all abuse.

Have you anything to say on the ‘suicides’ of seminarians in Irish seminaries?

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There was, also, a seminarian called Tim Corby who took his life back in the early 90s, shortly after leaving Maynooth.

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At 11:59am about Fanny’s “racist Jesus” speech.

Just because people are talking about something six months later no way indicates in its favour. Far from it.

You are a fool. People are talking about it because it was heresy and because it gave scandal.

And watch this space – Fanny’s “career” is over because of it. She will soon be packing up her hope chest and vanity case and trundling back down the road to some bog in Cashel and Emly.

Prying Paulette, Fanny, Collins, the gay scandals on their watch, etc., et alia, have well and truly shot Maynooth in the head. Maynooth itself is finished. Those men are an absolute joke and a disgrace. Unfit for purpose doesn’t even come close.

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At 11:59am about Fanny’s “racist Jesus” speech.
Just because people are talking about something six months later no way indicates in its favour. Far from it.
You are a fool. People are talking about it because it was heresy and because it gave scandal.
And watch this space – Fanny’s “career” is over because of it. She will soon be packing up her hope chest and vanity case and trundling back down the road to some bog in Cashel and Emly.
Prying Paulette, Fanny, Collins, the gay scandals on their watch, etc., et alia, have well and truly shot Maynooth in the head. Maynooth itself is finished. Those men are an absolute joke and a disgrace. Unfit for purpose doesn’t even come close.

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3:28
You sound like someone with more than one unresolved issue to deal with.
Jesus’ parables are still being spoken about 2000 later because they provoked. The status quo was upset by them just like you are upset by M. Mullaney’s. You’d have preferred pious piffle.

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3.45 comment on 3.28, purely dissecting your logic: Jesus and the woman colluded to teach the disciples about caring for outsider insiders.
Is the “unresolved issues” defence a variant on the “squeaky clean” defence?
And does it exonerate the attested ills under authority of Mullaney & colleagues?
It is in that context that those impacted can judge whether when he speaks and acts and performs in his duties, he gives belief, as opposed to piffle either “pious” or impious.

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Why is there never any action over all these things we read about here? Why do the civil authorities not move?
All that seems to happen is they go round and round circles on this blog and get constantly recycled. All there ever is the same old stories and accompanying rhetoric repeated ad nauseam.
Pat Buckley, if you have actual hard and fast evidence about all these things, why do you not bring the house down around them?

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3:47

Ever hear of ;

collusion, power, money, cover ups, pay offs, legal fees, lies, threats, bullying, fear, silence….

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Pat. I’ve been so tempted to phone you in the past couple of months, but I can’t bring myself to because I don’t feel I can trust you.
I was a seminarian. I am no more.
You reported me to have done something that I am innocent of based on gossip, hearsay and jealous people. I am scared to ring you because I expect you will exploit me

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You must make up your own mind.
If I have published anything untrue about you I will publicly admit and publicly apologise to you.
I can tell you one FACT.
In 44 years of priesthood have I never turned anyone priest, seminarian, lay man or woman away from my door and not help them.

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4.32 without wanting to distract from your case or Pat’s need to answer, I recall an instance when a commenter made a comment about an individual from a family I knew, that was (I was and am convinced) an exaggeration based precisely on the jealousy and malicious innuendo mentioned here.

True culprits name those who aren’t to blame. The worst “offence” of the person named then was to associate himself with an empty-headed VD. The seminarian named was and is in fact far less empty-headed than the VD concerned and would have long been talking with numerous fairly well-informed parties about a priestly vocation before said VD came along.

I felt too nervous to intervene at a time when comments had got way too out of hand altogether, I thought I didn’t have the energy. Pat I see you have taken to briefly challenging some commenters, that does help a great deal to keep the atmosphere healthier. It was a shame when you were letting the blog be taken over by the very bullies you claimed to decry, by not taking part in the countercharge.

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I do agree it’s of value allowing commenters using fallacy in argument to show themselves up, and you are clearly very active in disallowing many comments – thank you!

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Good intel for Jock land on here the last few days again Pat. I’m sure that Scottish Bishops think this blog is a right pain in the arse

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12:33

Does anybody in priesthood take responsibility or believe in being accountable for anything?
I saw Lee in Dublin a few months ago.

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How can any impartial person harbour even the smallest doubt now that the institutional Romanist Church is essentially evil, and that her ministers serve not God, but the god of Gehenna?

Hmm? 😕

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“Impartial”? You have the gall to utter the word “impartial”???

You truly beggar belief MagnaTroll. All this hatred and lies are stemming from your own blindness and dysfunction. What is “essentially evil” is you.

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7.21
Ack, howl yer fire, will y’? 😒
I wuz just cleanin’ m’ rifle when it accidentally discharged, so it did.😎
Honest, like. 😕
Mind, I hit the bullseye all the same, didn’t a?

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7:21

An utterly emotional reaction lacking objectivity balance and composure.

What’s the problem?

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Magna. I get your point, but looking back over this blog for the last few years, we are still talking a small percentage of RC clergy and seminarians who are rotten. The same names come up time after time and the same Diocese. The majority of us try our best and although we aren’t perfect, we don’t all go round grooming for sex, shagging or sticking sex toys up our bums in Churches, abusing others, shagging each other etc. Some of us say our prayers, try our best for our Parishes and people and take it seriously. Do you not see that? I’d love to chat to you about it some day.

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7.50

I sense your sincereity, but see your delusion.

You’re a priest?

The entire, clericalist system of the institutional Romanist Church, from its demi-deifying Theology of Priesthood, through its canon laws and its governance of the Church, to its requirement of obedience, not to Christ (as one might reasonably expect), but to the institution itself means that this, not a few rotten individual priests, is the problem. And this institution, as Dr David Starkey correctly described, is ‘corrupt, and riddled with corruption’. It is decayed through and through, and you willingly serve it. All the more so since your livelihood depends upon pleasing it, through conformity to your bishop’s instructions.

Your conscience (your freedom to do the right thing) has been restricted by the episcopate. But you will not acknowledge this fact.

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– how small is small?
– dioceses plural as we know
– you haven’t expressed outrage that your fellows had to suffer the impact
– the system has let you and your fellows down as regards all topics throughout theology and (un) belief, authority, relationships and dynamics.
Therefore your opinions & perceptions are not (in logic) a refutation of the emerged picture. I agree some contributors sometimes overdo hyperbole as to proportions and quantities but according to information the rot has definitely reached beyond the critical.
It is being said that a cleric doesn’t have to obey his superiors, which is good thinking, when he has sound reason, but look how difficult it gets made for him.

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8.09: Mr. Carta, when you were employed (If ever) by any institution or company, could you do as you personally desired? Could you turn up for work at your discretion? Could you change the work environment to suit your needs only? Could you behave recklessly as you do on this blog and expect to get away with it? If you noticed malpractice or abuse did you ever report to management? Somehow, I expect you were a coward and still are a coward. You talk much but probably do nothing to change anything in a significant way. We’ve read over and over, boringly, your same repeat hate speech.

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9.56

Flabbergasted that you even thought of posting such a… I really cannot think of a precise-enough adjective for your post.

In any company I worked for, I observed its rules and its regulations…where appropriate. But the companies I worked for, in all the time they employed me, never once ordered me to do anything immoral, anything that would jar with my conscience, and certainly, never anything that amounted to criminal behaviour. One company, Protestant, were even gracious enough to allow me to come to work after the start time…so that I could attend morning Mass.

Contrast all of this with the behaviour of the institutional Romanist Church.

Morally and spiritually, the companies I worked for set a far better example than that rotten institution.

And by far. 😕

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@8:40

Brian, ‘absolutely not’ , is not a defence.

Can you explain the phenomenon of covering up of child sex abuse and abuse of vulnerable adults by bishops throughout the entire catholic church?

Were bishops following orders or their consciences?

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I am sceptical as to whether an RC cleric can have a conscience, so keen are they to look after number one.. And these men are supposed to form the consciences of the faithful!
Incidentally I laugh whenever someone makes out Magna Carta is a priest. He obviously isn’t because he is concerned about life out of the womb and has a conscience, which are among the things lost in priestly ‘formation’.

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8.10 Yes I know and it makes me sick. We are not all like that you know. That’s my point. There are many good clergy around too! Thanks

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@9:00
Brian, I know there are good clergy around. Good clergy are not the issue. I wish you well.
” Remain in my love. ” John 15:9-10.

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8:09

MC, your comment makes perfect sense.
In my experience, an entire seminary faculty kept their mouths shut, compromising themselves morally and legally, participating in a criminal offence.
Whether knowingly or unbeknownst to themselves is irrelevant. They were complicit. 😎

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8:45
Very poor moral and ethical reasoning on your part. There’s nothing irrelevant about whether or not one knows that something is right or not. In fact it’s of the essence in determining culpability. I’d suggest you revisit your fundamental moral theological before displaying your poor judgement here – and I’m not just referring to your approval of MC’s hot air.

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9:27
Indeed, very poor moral and ethical reasoning and judgement on the part of individuals involved, for certain.
You confirm my point but chose to ignore the legal ramifications of silent inaction.
Ignorance of the law is no defence.

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@9:27
To reiterate: go back to school. It’s always advisable to differentiate between law and morality.,

Ignorance of the law may not be a legal defence.

The same may not be said in the moral sphere.

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I am incredulous that anyone could be still using the few bad apples argument in 2020. That was exactly the argument used before the full extent of the shoah of childhood innocence became apparent.
Disgusting.

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