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ENGLISH AND IRISH BISHOPS ARE PROTECTING A VICIOUS GAY LOBBY IN PRIESTHOOD AND SEMINARIES.

FATHER DAVID MARSDEN SCJ

Father Marsden’s Open Letter To UK Bishops…

Dear Bishops,

Like countless faithful Catholics around the world, I am sure many of you have been shocked and sickened by the recent scandals committed by the former Cardinal Theodore McCarrick. Further suffering is being inflicted by the silence of other cardinals and bishops who knew about his behavior and said nothing — and indeed continue to say nothing. In light of the explosive report by Archbishop Viganò, it becomes even more apparent that the homosexual cabal operating in the Catholic Church exists at the very highest level and even incriminates Pope Francis himself.

I hope and pray that the action of the Holy Spirit is now beginning to purify the hierarchy by exposing the evil committed by homosexual clergy around the world. I feel it is my duty to now inform you and faithful Catholics that the homosexual collective within the hierarchy which enabled McCarrick to function in an unobstructed manner is still alive and well today in the Catholic Church in England and Wales.

Towards the end of May 2018, I was dismissed from my post as formation tutor at St. Mary’s College, Oscott by the rector, Canon David Oakley. The reason for this was that I recommended that an openly gay seminarian discontinue the program of formation. Clearly, as an openly gay man, there was no hope of him being ordained. David Oakely informed me that his bishop was “adamant” that his student was staying in formation and that this was not how he and a number of bishops interpreted the Church’s teaching on homosexuality.

In light of the McCarrick scandal and the Viganò report, it has become very clear that cardinals, bishops and senior clergy from around the world are still openly dissenting against the Church’s teaching that prohibits the entrance into seminary formation of men with a homosexual orientation. This is the root cause of the most pressing scandal of our times. In fact, it is destroying the priesthood from within.

Apparently, the policy in Oscott appears to be if a candidate is not “acting out” his homosexual tendencies at the moment or behaving in an inappropriately “camp” way, then he is free to follow the formation program and move towards holy orders. The rector will not dismiss a candidate from the seminary who admits to being “gay” out of fear that his bishop will not agree with his decision. The problem, therefore, quietly continues.
This approach is clearly ignoring the Church’s teaching on this vital issue, yet for some strange reason, bishops are still not being made accountable for disregarding this important instruction. Whilst the teaching is clear, the practice in so many dioceses is deeply compromised. Can I make a huge plea that something be done about this widespread abuse?

I can also state that two of the spiritual directors in the seminary are very compromised on the issue of homosexuality — one individual admitting to me his own gender identity is very confused and the other openly stated that homosexual priests are a good idea as they are better able to minister effectively to homosexual Catholics! Neither would adhere to Church’s teaching and acknowledge that a key part of their role as spiritual contained the “duty to dissuade (a homosexual person) in conscience from proceeding towards ordination.”

I am writing to you all with a petition to act and take the necessary steps to reform the three remaining seminaries in England. The orthodox and heterosexual seminarians deserve a seminary free from a gay subculture and free from academic and formation staff who are homosexual themselves.

For the sake of brevity, I will summarise my findings from the year I spent working in the seminary:

1. The problem begins at St. Luke’s Institute in Manchester where a number of seminarians are asked to undergo a psychological assessment as part of the selection policy. The director of the institute, Fr. Gerard Fieldhouse-Byrne, has some very strange views on homosexuality himself and seems happy to admit homosexual men into the formation program. This is a problem that the bishop of Salford needs to address.

2. Canon David Oakley is prepared to admit homosexual men into his seminary and will not dismiss them unless their public conduct becomes unsavory. He is a compromised and cowardly man who is not prepared to make a stand and disagree with the bishops on the issue of homosexuality.

3. A number of bishops from England and Wales are happy to admit seminarians who are openly gay into the formation program and proceed towards ordination. The bishop of Menevia is one such example.

4. One of the spiritual directors at Oscott Seminary has admitted to being sexually attracted to young men. It is highly inappropriate that such an individual hold such a post. The rector is aware of this fact but seems unable to confront this individual. He even noted that the friends who accompany this individual for holidays each year are also homosexual. Another of the spiritual directors in the seminary thinks that homosexual priests are a great idea as they can minister to the gay Catholic community.

5. The archbishop of Birmingham and the archbishop of Westminster have both been informed of these issues and seem to prefer to ignore them. Why do we continue to have such passive and feeble-hearted clerics in such high places of leadership in the Church? Why are they afraid to speak out on topics such as homosexuality in the clergy and the toxic gender ideology sweeping through our schools?

These are not only facts but shocking allegations against the present life of the seminary in Birmingham. Action needs to be taken to address the homosexual culture in the Church’s hierarchy. Scandals like those of Theodore McCarrick and Cardinal Keith O’Brien are just waiting to happen. The normal, heterosexual students in Oscott demand that the homosexual clique in the seminary be dismissed and that the homosexual or bisexual staff members be dismissed also.

I was fired from the college for striving to uphold the Church’s teaching on homosexuality which is a grave injustice to me personally. It is extraordinary to think that I was asked by the rector to make a public oath of fidelity to the Magisterium of the Church at the beginning of the academic year. It is my fidelity to that oath that has cost me my job and deprived the seminarians of the only qualified formator in the seminary.

In the summer of 2016, I was forced to resign from St. Patrick’s College, Maynooth because they were ordaining openly homosexual men to the priesthood, and two years later I have been fired from St. Mary’s College, Oscott for stating that homosexual men are not to be admitted to seminary formation and priesthood.
We are surely living through dark times for the Catholic Church. Are there any good bishops left who are brave enough to begin the wholesale reform of the priesthood that is so badly needed?
With every blessing in Christ,

Father David Marsden, S.C.J.
Former Formation Tutor

FATHER MARSDEN v GORGEOUS

Notorious seminarian threatens Fr. Marsden
Fr.

Marsden recounted how he challenged one of the most notorious homosexual seminarians about his disordered lifestyle. He was given the response: “My bishop knows, the seminary council knows, my spiritual director knows – none of them have a problem with it so neither should you.” The priest said he realized that he was being told to essentially shut up since this was none of his business. It was after this encounter that Fr. Marsden said he realized that it was now no longer possible to conduct proper formation in the seminary in the face of such widespread dissent from Church teaching that was blatant among the seminary council and the spiritual directors. It was at this point, he said, that he wrote a letter to Mons. Connolly tendering his resignation.

PAT SAYS

I doubt if Father Marsden and I could ever be friends  but EVERYTHING he says in this letter to the UK bishops hits the nail on the head.

Father Marsden has been accused of homophobia.

I hope he is not because homophobia is a grave sin.

But he is right to say that while the RCC teaches what it does about homosexuality, sexuality and celibacy, there is no room in it for sexually active gay bishops, priests and seminarians.

Such men are UTTER HYPOCRITES upholding one set of doctrines and contradicting them in their daily living.

Jesus detested the Pharisees because they were above all else, hypocrites.

The English and Irish bishops, and their henchmen, are 21 st century PHARISEES.

ADDED 12 NOON

PATS PENTECOST HOMILY

https://www.podbean.com/ea/pb-w5p6u-de6442

233 replies on “ENGLISH AND IRISH BISHOPS ARE PROTECTING A VICIOUS GAY LOBBY IN PRIESTHOOD AND SEMINARIES.”

A Church of faith rather than about individuals the paper seems to refer to. Azy Julia yr on shaky ground with that wan hi. Benefit of the doubt Heart’s in the right place I hope

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8:44 AM
Good evening hi fly.
Begorra fly since 2016 we had the sex summit in roma.
And the big closet in Roma was opened.
And Cardinal Theo became mister ted.
And Cardinal P was set free.
Snippets fly. Progress or now gone from bad to worse.
Your guess is as good as mine.
Scallywags taking names in vain. Little Divils.
May the Force be with you.+
Bye bye fly hi.

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@ 9:29 am

Thank you for the link.

We read, ‘James’ ‘spiritual father’ acted inappropriately towards him on a number of occasions while a seminarian in Thurlas.

This was the seminary the young man mentioned on a previous blog, who died from ‘suicide’ (Rip) following harassment from bullies?

Did both ‘incidents’ occur in the same time-frame?

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Oh, now that could be interesting ! There’s a story to tell there with the new Bishop of Northampton / ex-Rector of Oscott !

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While Fr. Marsden is legitimately concerned aabout modern seminary formation for priesthood, I think there is an entrenched homophobia in his many judgments. If he was a chaplain in a Catholic school or any school, would he pronounce such definitive judgments on those who are gay? No. He wioud be accused of bigotry and hatred. Those who present for priesthood have to be people of moral and spiritual integrity and live to high ideals and standards. That’s an almost impossible task. Yet, sadly, some have behaved disreputably, shaming and disgracing priesthood. While we no longer have many seminarians in our country, it seems horrendous that the behaviour outlined by Fr. Marsden is a reality. I know Pat loves these stories but I’m wondering if there are truths re: Fr. Marsden we do not know!! Can all his observations be corroborated or validated as he seems to have cast his broad sweep very, veey wide, implicating practically every cleric he has encountered. The relevance and meaning of celibacy, human sexuality and priesthood requires a profound reflection and renewal that goes beyond Pat’s vision because this too is flawed. We’ve had this same discussion a few days ago….we just have a new imput…!!!

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FFS, do you think any responsible, self-respecting, head teacher in a secondary school would let Fr Marsden near the students with his warped, nasty, homophobic take on homosexuality, even if it is wrapped up in Catholic orthodoxy ? Parents, teachers and pupils would be in uproar, and Fr Marsden would swiftly lose a third job PDQ !

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He wasn’t in a school. He was in seminaries. Pope Francis says gay candidates should not be admitted to seminaries. With your logic the Pope should be sacked.

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8:46
Fake news.

Pope Francis was much more nuanced in what he said.

You do him and the truth a disservice.,

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9.25

Nonsense.

You do yourself a disservice by failing to understand the obvious in Francis’ words, which are an endorsement of Benedict’s clear and homophobic ban.

The other poster is right; you are wrong.

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8.46
You can take it that your interpretation is correct if the internet troll MC expresses a contrary opinion.

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What’s Marsden working at now? Paul Coyle used to belong to the same congregation before he transferred to Dublin diocese.

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10.33

Thanks for the link.

Marsden and Francis are indeed singing off the same hymn sheet, and each is caterwauling as loudly as the other.

Both are also homophobic arseholes, who haven’t a scintilla of reputable science to back up their views.

Frankly, they both are an embarrassnent.

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Two comments on that Pat, having been a seminarian:
1. Marsden is a homophobe, no doubt about it. You would not get on with him. Also, David Oakley was a good rector.
2. The church’s teachings have to change. I cannot believe those words intrinsically disordered are still in the catechism. Good priests are forced into a secret life if they fall in love, and don’t want to leave the ministry (why should they?) On the other hand, those priests who are promiscuous and still come out with the moral finger wagging – these ones are the Pharisees. Not all gay seminarians and gay priests.

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Why lump the promiscuous and / or vicious (a word in today’s post title) or even the unchaste, in the same indelibly ontological category as the chaste?
Then again the RCC has no genuine use for priests. If you want to be a bachelor, just be a bachelor (Reet, Aud and Old Mother pour scorn on this though). A person who confects, is a confectioner. Weren’t parishioners, especially women who seem to be the ones that go gooiest over priests, brought up not to accept smarties from “strange men” (and I accept some genuine good ‘uns I know aren’t really “strange”).
Since JP II made smarties compulsory, there is clamouring e.g from unworthy politicians, not to be “excluded”. The old style of straightforward lay religion (which I occasionally discover documentation of) didn’t create anything for anyone to be excluded from, in essence – but dynamics is a different matter and there were certain bad sodalities for that. Abolishing belief and prayer doesn’t improve dynamics.
There are presumed non-unchaste priests who are sentimentally vacuous-minded and there are some priests who are irate axe grinders, I wouldn’t gravitate to them but that’s just me.
I never went to a catholic school let alone a seminary. (My secular secondary school was dicey, I recall.) At my age people just tell me things so I check them out at Pat’s blog.
Of course possession of a Vanpoulles catalogue should be made instantly dismissable.

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Did Fr. Marsden have any proof? Gorgeous gave it back to him again indicting his truthfulness and Marsden seemed upset. Can Fr. Marsden please back up an accusation other than the fact Gorgeous was open about his sexuality? Marsden has homosexuality on the brain

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IMO Father Marsden (whom they were all wrong to dismiss) has expressed the issues awkwardly because the frame of reference of psychology in use in the church is flawed.
The concept of chastity seems to have been forgotten completely, all round. Virtues are not taught about, to lay people generally.
Before deciding on admission, wise persons knowledgeable about all charisms in Christian life must check out a potential seminarian for maturity of character with particular attention to whether obsessions and manias have been firmly self-managed almost out of existence, so as to reliably never impact ministry and living.
Not discriminating in “orientation” (pushed since Reich and Kinsey) has been given a pass at the expense of these. The CDF created an ontological category, which is disrespectful to habitus.
Now add generalised sentimentality and lack of vision. Advance in Christian life in Holy Spirit and Scriptural belief is likely to lead to one becoming a useful lay person (including one who is temporarily a bachelor) rather than a cleric. And flimsy ideas have crept in, about what is “tradition”.
An obsessed person, skilled at harassing others, is required for future promotion (under “influence”) to positions of authority. Sometimes a bishop or VG gets in who is more or less right minded but feels too trapped and weak to get those bigger than him to improve the system. We should pray for them more. Given the deals now made, no-one should consider committing themselves to Rome.
And you never were “a priest for ever”. That bit was a falsity all along. If you choose to continue, and think your “communion” is temporarily safe enough for you to spend longer thinking, fair enough (perhaps).
Gotta close as Reet, Aud and Old Mother don’t approve.

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Gorgeous had the courage to challenge Marsden and his twisted views. Marsden could not handle and openly gay man in the priesthood.

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Remember Di Nardo was acting for Rome when he deceptively sabotaged the US bishops’ almost unanimous move to make themselves accountable which they were on the point of doing,
See what policy Rome is enforcing with brutal words from Ouellet and Re.

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10:12
A US cultural warrior peddling fake news. The US bishops voted to accept Francis’ timeline. You don’t like that. Fine. But don’t imagine the rest of us are taken in by your spin.

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Nothing changed after the Rome talking shop. Zanchetta is still sheltered by Francis, and the McCarrick report is still unpublished.

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10.01

It isn’t ‘fake news’.

As for the USCCB’s voting for Francis’ timeline, why don’t you apply to the situation that word you freely toss about on this blog, but whose meaning you either don’t know or don’t understand? The word ‘nuanced’.

The American bishops had no choice in the matter; they were bound to toe the papal line, as you well kn… No; you probably did not know, since you know little else.

You utter fool.😆

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8:34

Byrne has integrity. It does not fit his character to debase someone in a newspaper or blog, he is not that kind of person.

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Pat would allow Gorgeous to publish his side of the story on here WITHOUT a Pat Says.
The blogs I published were published in the spirit if truth.
If have published non truths about him I will publicly apologise to him.

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9.47

Byrne has integrity? Is this why he alledgedly lied to Pat when they were communicating one night for an hour or two? 😕

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Not allegedly. He told me he was going to Barcelona with him family when he was really going with a senior Dublin priest.

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Pat,

You seem to be under the impression that Byrne owed you the truth or something. He was truthful about his sexuality and what did you do? Publicly out him on your blog. Stop playing the victim, what you did to him was far worse than what he did to you.

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Who were the spiritual directors in Oscott in the period Fr Marsden is talking about? It is wrong to have a gay man as spiritual director in the hothouse atmosphere of a seminary, where the staff/student power balance favours staff so strongly.

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10:27
Similar remarks about having black seminary staff members a generation ago. Plus ça change plus ça fait la même chose.

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You’re flogging a dead horse here, Bp Pat, it’s pathetic really, even Magna Carta will agree; nothing, not you, not Fatyer Marsden, or anyone else will stop two men coming together, even for five minutes, if that’s what they want to be.

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10:43 pm
Catechism of the Catholic Church.
PART THREE
LIFE IN CHRIST
SECTION TWO
THE TEN COMMANDMENTS
CHAPTER TWO
“YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF”
ARTICLE 6
THE SIXTH COMMANDMENT
You shall not commit adultery.113
You have heard that it was said, “You shall not commit adultery.” But I say to you that every one who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.114
http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s2c2a6.htm

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10.43
Huh?! 😨
‘EVEN Magna Carta will agree’? 😕 Of course I should agree. Why souldn’t I?
However, those men must stop themselves from ‘coming together’ (Sexually?) if they are spiritually disordered enough to have chosen Romanist priesthood.

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Fr. Marsden sounds like a conservative muppet. Maynooth was ordaining openly gay me – you mean this guy was open and you tried to ruin him?

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Maynooth abuse continues to this day. There needs to be a public apology issued on behalf of the Irish Bishops and a permanent memorial for the survivors of Maynooth sexual abuse.

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“The Catholic Bishops in Minnesota announced their plan to resume public masses against government orders.
Minnesota bishops issued a press release stating that Governor Tim Walz ended the state’s stay-at-home-order “allowing more commerce, but prohibiting religious gatherings of more than ten people.”
Gov. Walz ended the stay-at-home order on May 13, allowing retailers to operate at 50 percent capacity. However, the bishops stated that despite working with the state government, they did not receive a “concrete timeline and roadmap” for resuming Masses.
The bishops said they will now resume public masses at 33 percent capacity, following safety protocols and considering each parish’s situation.
The Sunday obligation remains dispensed. Parishes are also not required to resume Masses if they feel it is unsafe to do so.
“Part of our faith is we want to respect all legitimate civil authority,” Apb. Bernard Hebda of the Archdiocese of Saint Paul and Minneapolis said in a May 21 press conference.
“That’s one of the reasons we’ve tried reaching out to the governor and his administration to explain the needs of our church, which are kind of particular.
“As we’ve seen other openings and plans for other openings in the state, it makes us feel much more comfortable with what we’re doing, because we see a parallel that’s there, and we certainly see that we need to be treated equally.”
Abp. Hebda added that he will meet with Gov. Waltz after the press conference, saying he hopes he “changes his mind.””

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5.36
Alurums and excursions! These bishops, holy men of God, are in open rebellion against lawful state authority.
What would Paul, self-styled apostle, say to that?
Paul? 😲

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http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s2c2a6.htm
Chastity and homosexuality
2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity,141 tradition has always declared that “homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered.”142 They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.
CONGREGATION FOR CATHOLIC EDUCATION
Instruction
Concerning the Criteria for the Discernment of Vocations
with regard to Persons with Homosexual Tendencies
in view of their Admission to the Seminary and to Holy Orders
http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/ccatheduc/documents/rc_con_ccatheduc_doc_20051104_istruzione_en.html
Fr. Marsden was only doing his job. Why the hullabaloo?

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Fr. David Marsden in the capacity of ‘psychologist’ seems to have broken professional confidentially in two seminaries. He should be struck off the register.

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Father Marsden is a Catholic, religious psychologist. There is such a thing as Catholic Psychology – albeit some of us disagree with it.

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9.08

Is Marsden a registered psychologist? I’d be astounded to learn that he is.

Psychology must be informed by empirical science, not by Romanist ideology.

Romanism and science historically have made poor bedfellows, and Romanism has generally been the one kicked out of the bed.

Ask Gallileo. 😕

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Gorgeous won the battle by getting Fr Marsden out of Maynooth, but Fr Marsden won the war. A wholy unsuitable candidate was stopped from being ordained a priest.

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I understand you point. But maybe Father Marsden is involved in caring for people? And as a religious he will not have a wage, but a small allowance.

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Father Marsden in a member of a religious order who will appoint to various ministries. He is also vowed for life to poverty, chastity and obedience – and that is a lifelong vocation.

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Gorgeous was not trying to oust Marsden from Maynooth. This is a common misconception on this blog – did Marsden not leave of his own accord? I see a young man defending himself from a bully. His response disempowered Marsden because he thought Gorgeous was hiding his sexuality from his Bishop – which was not the case. It shows a young man who was trying to integrate his sexuality with priesthood – he was not trying to hide it like so many do. I suspect Marsden has unresolved issues regarding his own sexuality and transferred those feelings on to Byrne.

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Byrne had an interesting way of “integrating” – which he practised on seminarians, priests and others 🙂

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9.51
And what a priest that homophobe Marsden is! 😅
Judas was an Apostle, y’know. In the end, it meant nothing.
Just as Marsden’s priesthood means nothing.😕

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Fr. Marsden seems to have been doing his job, taking his responsibilities seriously, doing his duty as a member of faculty, fulfilling a public oath of fidelity made to the Magisterium of the Catholic Church in a Catholic seminary.

Why the hullabaloo?

Sounds like moral anarchy desires to reign or already reigns.

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Fr Marsden is a religios order priest. Why should he be in a parish. That’s for diocesan priests (Frs Prior, Magee, Coll, Conway, Connolly, Grant, Whyte, Mullaney, Connolly etc, etc, etc excepted, of course).

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8.14

I’m astonished at the utter lucidity of your post: lucid nonsense.

Marsden wasn’t being faithful to magisterial teaching: this nowhere prohibits admitting to seminary gay but chaste men simply because they are gay; in fact, it expressly prohibits any unjust discrimination against them. And denying a man’s vocation on the ground of his secuality alone rather than his moral personhood is absolutely unjust.

Marsden was acting against magisterial teaching. He is out in the cold now, where the fool belongs.

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I agree. But that does not mean there is not goodness and kindness in Gorgeous. Hopefully he will do well as a hospital chaplain and meet a suitable man and marry.

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“Meet a suitable man and marry”? He will screw around left right and centre as he always did more like.

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8:37

Can you name one person he ‘screwed’ around with? There seems to be this common idea that he was ‘screwing around’ but I want to know – who, what and where? Evidence please.

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4.37
Your point? I ask because the link you posted refers to the highly personal, and utter unscientific tripe, by the German pope, who himself concealed reports, from around the world, of child-sexual abuse by Romanist priests while he was prefect of the CDF. As such, this is personal opinion, not magisterial teaching.

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8.28

Your conclusion isba non sequitur: Byrne was stopped because he was avtotalky unsuitable person, not because he was gay.

Byrne’s sexuality did not make him bad; that was entirely his choice.

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9:53 pm
So you claim. Did you read it in its entirety? Can people teach what they like depending on their personal views or takes on RCC teaching? I’m querying, MC.
I’m not qualified to make theological judgements.Personally, I have no issue with men who are gay. I have no issue with gay seminarians who take chastity/celibacy issue seriously. Also, I have no issue with gay priests who are seriously trying to live out priesthood, taking their promises made publicly seriously, living with integrity. I differentiate between lust and love. There’s a world of difference. Having said that, we are all human.
I do have major issues with predators ,duplicity, boundary violations, and moral corruption, regardless of sexual orientation. I have major issues with gay cabals in seminary, harassing, bullying and abusing other seminarians. I’d show them the door if in a position of authority. If they were in training in a professional context elsewhere, such behavior would not be tolerated. Rcc priesthood training appears to be very odd indeed, operating on parallel tracks. Its a funny old Church!

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I am no homophobe. I have a close family member who is homosexual. I have seen him “fall in love” with many men at the drop of a hat and end up in relationships. All of these to date have ended up in unhappy fall outs. I have witnessed the use of emotional, physical and sexual violence in these events. Untold psychological damage to those involved, including the police, the courts, social workers and family members. Scratch the surface and the true spirit is exposed and their defence is to call any objectors homophobic when the real concern is for the person’s true well being. Pastorally a disaster area. Only one being I know will gain pleasure from these events!

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I have seen all this too. A lot of study into gay marriage etc is needed.
I think the ones who survive are those gay marriages that are built on love and companionship and not just on sex. Many great marriages end up sexless.

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Pat, you know that the number of gay men who marry men is a vanishingly small fraction of the gay population, and even when they do they are “open marriages”.

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9.55: I know gay couples but do not associate much with them any longer. Their very open marriages/relationships disgusted me. Too many different partners too frequently at crazy, bizarre weekend encounters. Their stories of swapping around with other men in group activity seemed totally unsafe, perverse, dangerous, potentially damaging and a health endangerment to all. I have no difficulty with gay people but the extremes of sexual practices among many is abhorrent.

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The same negative descriptions of gay relationships could equally be applied to many heterosexual marriages. Adultery, coercive control, abuse, sex parties can all be found there too. Life is not simple for anyone and we each have to try to live our lives as best as we can. Resorting to stereotypes about any type of relationship or any type of person is rarely truly illuminating, no matter how tempting it might be.

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What of the broader issue: are some Bishops in England and Ireland protecting a vicious gay lobby in priesthood and seminaries?

Is this pure fiction or is it fact that can be substantiated.

Uncle Ted confirms its happened in the US Church. We await the report on him.

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Pat, Marsden’s gripe isn’t sexually active gay men, but men whose sexuality happens to be homosexual. He’d have barred Jesus himself from admission to seminary had he presented as an openly gay but chaste candidate.

Come to think of it, he’d have barred you, too.

The man is a homophobe.

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I think he must certainly face the charge of homophobia and answer it in detail.

Of course, he is only promulgating the “Divine” teachings of his denomination.

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Well, they are the teaching of Pope E. Benedict and Pope Francis. This teaching effectively tells God to whom he may, or may not, gift a vocation. (To use Church parlance, not mine.)

The Romanists have already informed God that he may not gift women with a vocation; now its gay men, even if they are, erm, straight about the fact that God has gifted THEM with a sexuality, but are prepared to embrace celibacy and chastity nonetheless.

This teaching on seminary admission is patent nonsense, and it is what results from bad advice and from not thinking through a proposition before accepting it. However, it will probably not be revoked, however widely and correctly it is ignored, until those papal two old farts snuff it: there’d be too much face-saving to cope with.

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God forgive me +Pat, but I could never bring myself to go near a woman’s you know what. I just couldn’t!
They look like something of the film Alien.
Jesus Mary and Joseph!
So in this context, I can kind of slightly understand the mindset of a homophobic person, but not the victimisation a straight person or persons though.
I couldn’t go near one of them things, but I don’t shout abuse at women in the street lol.

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10.03: Who barred you, gay Magna? You were flipped out of seminary for reasons of unsuitability, perhaps closeted behaviour???

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1.46
You’re right in one respect: I have truly never gotten over my immense good fortune NOT to have been ordained a dirty, paedophile, parasitical and mooching Romanist priest.
Imagine the utter shame of belonging to a class of indolent, work-shy clowns forever associated, not with Jesus, but with the rape of children and its cover-up. (And the unholy rest.😕)
God is good! 😃

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AMERICAN PSYCHOLOGICAL ASSOCIATION

Are same-sex marriages different from heterosexual marriages?

Like heterosexuals, many lesbian, gay and bisexual people want to form stable, long-lasting relationships and many of them do. In fact, researchers have found that the majority of lesbian, and gay, adults are in committed relationships and many couples have been together 10 or more years.  

Scientists have found that the psychological and social aspects of committed relationships between same-sex partners largely resemble those of heterosexual partnerships. Like heterosexual couples, same-sex couples form deep emotional attachments and commitments. Same-sex and heterosexual couples alike face similar issues concerning intimacy, love, loyalty and stability, and they go through similar processes to address those issues. Empirical research also shows that lesbian and gay couples have levels of relationship satisfaction similar to or higher than those of heterosexual couples.

How do laws that limit marriage to heterosexuals affect gay and lesbian people?

Being denied the right to marry reinforces the stigma associated with a minority sexual identity. Researchers have found that living in a state where same-sex marriage is outlawed can lead to chronic social stress and mental health problems. Psychologists are particularly concerned that such stigma may undermine the healthy development of adolescents and young adults.  

The families and friends of lesbian and gay couples who are denied marriage rights may also experience negative physical and mental health consequences similar to those experienced by their loved ones.

Do same-sex couples make fit parents?

The vast majority of scientific studies that have directly compared lesbian and gay parents with heterosexual parents have consistently shown that the same-sex couples are as fit and capable parents as heterosexual couples, and that their children are just as psychologically healthy and well adjusted. For instance, one recent study (PDF, 169KB) found that children of same-sex couples do just as well in school as children of heterosexual couples, and these children are equally popular among their peers.

Why is marriage so important?

Marriage bestows economic and social support to couples in committed relationships, which can result in substantial health benefits

. Researchers have found that married men and women generally experience better physical and mental health than comparable cohabiting couples. Additionally, same-sex couples in legal unions are more likely to remain in a committed relationship than those denied marriage rights.  

Taken together, the research shows that there’s no scientific basis for denying marriage rights to same-sex couples, and doing so can adversely affect them as well as their family and friends. 

This fact sheet is based on APA’s amicus brief in the case of Hollingsworth v. Perry and APA’s Public Interest Government Relations Office fact sheet on Marriage Equality and LGBT Health (PDF, 111KB).  

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The Magisterium teaches against unjust discrimination of homosexuals.

To bar from seminary a gay but chaste man is unjust discrimination, and sinful.

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That is not magisterial teaching, but more along the line of motu proprio instruction; it does not have the same weight in terms of moral authority.

But even if (for argument’s sake) it were taken as such teaching, then there is a clear moral and intellectual contradiction between ‘unjust discrimination’ and barring from seminary gay but chaste candidates on the anecdotal premise that gay men risk going on to abuse minors sexually. There is absolutely no reliable scientific study to back up such blatant and homophobic drivel. And, frankly, gravely sinful drivel.

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I totally agree.

But we have seen gay priests, who were sexually active seminarians, prey on young parishioners – Father John Paul Lyttle.

It’s not good for a priest to be a predator of any kind.

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11.58

Be a good juvenile and tell me why I need to look up ‘ordinary magisterium’? I’d bet you can’t make a sensible answer, much less a convincing one. 😅

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I think that people like Marsden need to be challenged theologically and scientifically. TOB is heresy.

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1.44
More nonsense from Greene-by-name-and-green-by-nature. But at least you lighten the mood with your comedic posts.
Psst! I’d change the username were I you. It’s gonna keep working against you. 😄

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The main thing is that Pat’s blog did what Maynooth was unwilling and unable to do: he halted the ordination of some of the unsuitable candidates; and he did Amy’s job by making Rory and McCamley c/o Ara Caeli.

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Maybe. Or it might be with a view to helping them deal with their abuse?

In any event, Oscott is as disgraced as Maynooth.

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Is Maynooth disgraced. Wonder why Maynooth is disgraced.
One predator too many or what? What do Bishops in England and Ireland have to say?

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The founder of Marsden’s religious order was a notorious anti semite. The SCJs hate to be reminded of that, they tried to hide the fact when they were putting their founder up for canonisation.

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He told me that in a meeting. I told him I am chaste. He said that does not matter and he told me I should leave seminary because homosexual men are and always will be unsuitable.
Ask him his thoughts on the matter it you don’t believe me.

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How do we know what an anonymous comment maker says is true? You would be much more credible if you put your name to that claim. If you did, I, for one, would want to believe you.

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Yes Pat, I’m afraid he just doesn’t like gay people. He was obsessed with it being disordered. He would even preach about this at Mass. For him there is no distinction between celibate gays, and active ones. My friend is a celibate gay still at Oscott so I know this to be true.
He should not be celebrated on this Blog.

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For me there IS a distinction between celibate and active ones.
Of course I believe church teaching is wrong.
I believe a gay priest should be allowed to marry.
But that is different from rampant predatory sex.

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11.35: A very convenient definition. Not all gay priests are rampant fools. Stop spreading your vicious anti priest agenda.

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After his letter was published both the Archbishop of Birmingham and the Rector, now Bishop, denied the claims completely. They couldn’t say they disagreed with the position and that gay men are taken on a case by case basis, they couldn’t say well we will launch an independent review , no just denial and cover up yet again. Its fine for all those who see this as a homophobic attack but that’s because they themselves are gay or celibate , would a family man agree that they feel completely comfortable with a gay priest or seminarian in contact with their sons? There’s a huge difference between a member of your family being gay or someone you know very well but a complete stranger is very different unless you believe that gay men are not more predatory or more highly sexed than other man ? Well the ones in the priesthood seem to prove the point

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11.30
So you yourself believe that gay priests rather straight ones are the more lustful, and less self-disciplined, the more predatorily paedophile/ephebophile? And you say that the ones in the priesthood ‘seem to prove the point’?
Had you in mind the John Jay report?
Statistically, this report lacked crucial evidence: it was unable to determine the percentage of gay men who offended, either criminally or canonically, to the total number of gay priests. And this is probably because the vast majority of gay priests remain ‘closeted’ and, therefore, this number with them.
In real terms, the percentage of gay and straight offenders, not to the sum total of offenders, but as a percentage of their respective categories in the priesthood may show that straight priests rather than gay priests tend to deviate in the way you mentioned.

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I shouldn’t spend even a penny to read Marden’s screed, though I should be willing to spend the proverbial penny over every homophobic page of it.

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11.32: Magna, somehow the amount if homophobic sentiments expressed by Fr. Marsden wouldn’t equal the volume of hate speech and shit you spew out. Keep your rolls of hate speech paper. It will come in useful for your loo!!

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FATHER MARSDEN’S 57 PAGE PHAMPLET

JUST ADDED PIC ABOVE

Does suggest he is against ALL gay priests, including celibate ones.

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There are people who “buy in” to the Pole’s theology. I think its unscientific and dangerous – and cult like.

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Father David Marsden – a man with such a single issue obsessive focus, who spends his time writing pamphlets like this, is evidently and patently not somebody who is balanced and sane. The man has problems. And it does not take a genius to realise that such a negative and prejudiced obsession such as his comes from his own issues with his own sexuality. The man people scream about other people and their sexuality, the more it is a clue as to their own self-loathing, anger and frustration with themselves and their own sexuality. It has nothing to do with orthodoxy, or faith, or anything to do with religion. It has to do with him. Simple.

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We have heard testimonies to Michael’s courage and kindness both as a hospital chaplain and as a student at Valladolid – where he protected a vulnerable seminarian – and to standing up to Marsden at Maynooth. I’d trust Michael any day over a priest such as Marsden. However, Pat’s point is that Marsden represents the Church’s teaching on sexuality, which – no matter how wrong and insane – is more entrenched than ever. I honestly don’t know how we, as Church, are going to resolve this conundrum, which reveals itself particularly in seminary life as deeply rooted dysfunction and absence of integrity: these are the anti-qualities of the very men we are ordaining. The evidence seems to be things are getting worse not better.

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1.56
You popped a zit 😷 with the point about ‘Church teaching’: Church teaching isn’t necessarily the teaching of Christ, is it?
Which should be followed, then? Christ’s, of course. But ‘good’ priests, like Marsden, are obligated, through the unholy ordination vow or promise, to uphold Church teaching, which is why (to the uncontainable joy of many here), I’ll keep expressing, ad infinitum, the salient truth that there is, and never can be, no such thing as a good Romanist priest; the very idea is (Tch! 😎) an oxymoron.
Even so, it is not the teaching of the Church, let alone Christ, to bar from seminary gay but chaste candidates: this is merely the homophobic opinion of Benny and Frankie.
As neither man has pronounced on this in terms of the extraordinary magisterium, and as there is not unanimity on the matter among the bishops in general (ordinary magusterium), it is wrong canonically, never mind morally, to consider this ban a principle of Church teaching, much less an infallible one.

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Oakley and Marsden both believe in the same CCC which is largely rubbish, so there’s little between them.

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Fr David Marsden is very good friends with Deacon Nick Donnelly. Look up Deacon Nick and you’ll realise that this is an unstable priest with deep seated issues.

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The clergy in Lancaster can’t stand Donnelly and he is a problem for the Bishop here. He should never have been accepted for ordination.

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The title of Marsden’s fiction, ‘The Priest As Spiritual Father’, suggests a divineless comedy, and, for Romanist priesthood, an embarrassing one at that.😅

Ah, c’mon now! 😒 How could anyone take this self-conceited self-delusion with a straight face 😅, or unclenched jaw😬, in these times? 😕 The Romanist as spiritual father?

And guess what? Without having read the trash, I know Marsden’s likely to configure ‘Father’ with masculinity…and call into question the masculinity of gay men and, therefore, their perceived unsuitability to be ‘Father’, looking after spiritual children. But if you take this preposterous metaphor a little further, it means that no Romanist priest either can be ‘Father’, since he supposedly has no experience of actual, physical fatherhood.

The Romanists aren’t half stupid, aren’t they? 😕

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Know who you read/sound like Maggie Mooch with all your snarling about “priests”?

The demon possessed girl in The Exorcist 😆🙄

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Goodo.

And thanks.

Cos I’d likely end by putting his stuff to another, more earthy use.😉

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How much better it would have been for the whole world if Cormac had accepted a light penalty like Fisher and Bar-Bar Bar-Ann.

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Marsden’s posturing goes like this:
1. Marsden believes gay men should not be priests.
2. Marsden is a priest.
3. Marsden is not a gay man.

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Nothing like today’s topic to trigger a tsunami so with that in mind where do the bishops come into this grand narrative.

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The word “homophobe “ is a word without meaning. It is obviously a prefix plus suffix without a substantive but in today’s chat it is the main ammunition of those who are desperate that the true teaching of the Church should not be considered as binding on them.
They are truly “Church Haters” which hatred is periodically expressed by one of the regulars who holds up for admiration the treatment meted out on Catalan and Spanish priests during the Civil War in Spain.
Oscot is mentioned and I am reminded of the photograph which appeared on this blog, of the person who appears to still be a spiritual director of that place dressed in miniskirt, boots oversized pectoral cross and supported by two tarts.
Groups of people have over the last few years been courted by Bishops in England and fanfared into churches. These people define themselves by the “pride” they take in their sin but any objector to this nonsense is classified as a nasty man or “homophobe”.
Christ, the Church, the Sacraments, the priesthood, the meaning of our lives; all is about Holiness ( following the Lord into union with his and Our Father in Heaven ). But look at the mess that this blog and the world in which it appears is today. Where is the “holiness” in this ?
Achieving sexual satisfaction with persons of the same sex was not holy when Christ walked this earth, is not holy now and will never be.
This is a Truth that will set you Free. Think on!!!!!

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4.11
God! Where to start on this one? 😕
At the beginning, obviously. 😩
Okay.
Well first, by definition a word without meaning is not a word. ‘Homophope’ is most definitely a word and has, therefore, meaning.
Second, expressing hatred of the Romanist clerical caste is not hatred of the Church, since the Church is not comprised solely of Romanist clergy.
Achieving sexual satisfaction… Is this, to you, solely the object of same-sex sex? It would seem so, since you mention no other purpose of it. Did you consider that it might actually be done for a different reason and purpose? From love of another to express love of that other? No? That’s homophobia.
Anything else here?
Yes, but nothing worth commenting on. 😎

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How much less acceptable to entertain obsessions about wives or little daughters. One gets transported if there’s a pitch to queer.

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So what work / ministry does David Marsden do these days, other than swanning off to theology of the body seminars in the USA ? Is there a bishop in this country that would give him a role knowing his rampantly homophobic and warped theology of sexuality ?

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What do the SCJs think about Marsden ? I imagine they are probably a bit embarrassed by him ? I mean, by averages, a good number of the SCJs are probably homosexual in orientation, and how do they feel about one of their own telling them that they shouldn’t have been ordained in the first place ? Oh, I bet there are some interesting dynamics in whatever community Marsden is living ! His problem, I think, is that he is autistic. He sees something in black and white, and takes it for literal, and bangs away about it. No sense of proportion, or ability to be nuanced and subtle, to contextualise etc. etc. And all with that camp Scouse accent, and around to be for Liverpool ! FFS !

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I imagine the SCJs are happy to allow Fr Marsden to do his own thing and financially support him while he’s doing it. It’s easier for them that challenging them.

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He’s been knocked back by a man at some point and he can’t get over it. Unfortunately, Bp Pat tends to encourage these types; first it was Despard, now this queer Marsden fellow.

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6:45 pm

Your use of the word autistic is totally inappropriate.
Seeing things in black and white terms, psycho-dynamically, is termed splitting.

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When I had my Civil Court hearing in Liverpool last month, the Archdiocesan solicitor had removed ALL of my exhibits of evidence from MY APPLICATION BINDER!! And included only SOME of theirs!!
+Pat, I had a PP masterbating through his trousers whilst starring at me and was subsequently treated like scum by the Arch and his safeguarding dept., who it turns out are nothing but criminals and enablers. This pp is still in post and, has a seminarian living with him! WTF!
In addition to this, the priest who emotionally and psychologically abused me is still, apparently, in his position!!
Can somebody please for the love of Christ give me any advice? Abybody? ? Please?
I need tangeable confirmation ASAP because I am not a very happy bunny.
I was given an external hard drive which I had to call 999 and report to Police upon finding it’s contents.
In addition to this, I was hacked and had threats made to silence me… which I took NO notice of!

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Was the judge sitting District Judge Lee Jenkinson of Liverpool’s Civil County Court?
And was, even with all that evidence which was submitted, thrown out of Court with an excuse like your application for submission of Relief/Defence under CPR 3.9 is ”Totally without merit.”
Also, was there no court clerk present during proceedings? And where you were left alone and defenceless without anybody to help you in this at the hearing?
This Judge, Lee Jenkinson, is mentioned a few times online! Here is just one search find.
https://www.associationofcostslawyers.co.uk/News/district-judge-was-wrong-to-recuse-himself-from-assessing-fellow-judges-costs

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9.34 one of the Pablos, is that an argument? And if you’re all right jack what’s your duty, and who to? We need to be told.

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Well you are entitled to your opinion, Fatber Pablo, but thank God not everybody thinks like yoursel.
Would you like to elaborate on your coment at all?

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What is the role of bishops in this grand mess?
No one willing to mention the unmentionables. It’s only a matter of time.

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“It is my fidelity to that oath that has cost me my job and deprived the seminarians of the only qualified formator in the seminary.”
What an arrogant tit!

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Marsden wrong all gay seminarians and priests right, except of course the bullies, predators, ones interested in underage youths but they are the exception … And there are lots of gay celibate priests who go on record all the time denouncing abuse and never ever turn a blind eye, and anyone who is anti gay is gay but not the right kind of gay not like the nice gays

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Erstwhile, for the avoidance of doubt, I would never allow you to anoint my hands with Holy oils of Chrism; I am strongly of the opinion that you are highly incompetent and are responsible for allowing certainserious issues to go unchallenged. The year before myself and others went off to Valladolid, it was perfectly clear you were aware of the evil psychopath in charge, yet you still allowed us to go to that torture chamber. You have NO EXCUSE, WHATSOEVER! You are compromised before the very act and the aftermath! You are fooling NOBODY!
You can smile and compliment all you like, but you are in Liverpool, not pplitical London. We are a big family here in Liverpool and you are not liked all that much here.
The evidence is out there for all to see and it is very sad and disturbing you have not responded; you are ruining the Church community in Liverpool, and the Northern province –
You are compromised – please do the right thing and retire before you cause anymore damage.
At least the other Bidhop sent his truents off packing at the very beginning!
Your own priests are not best pleased with you and I myself almost died because of your outright smug incompetence! But you do not care, do you? You are like a runnerway train causing damage; faster and faster down the tracks. Total and unquestionable Roman carnage. This is Liverpool, not Rome.
YOU have caused me and my family SO MUCH pain.
I personally, as do my family and loved ones, find you to be an evil and selfish human being and I do not acknowledge you as a priest or Bishop.
I am on strong medication because of your selfish incompetence.
I do not want money, not a penny. I want you to resign and take an office job as to prevent any other poor sod having to suffer what I have had to suffer.
Just take action!

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And please don’t think that announcing that you were ‘Still investigating’ or that you were still ‘looking into matters.’ We are not idiots
You messe up, again. Simple

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Did the Fiantan Monaghan hush money pay out to the two raped former seminarians comply with the Charities Act. The amount was excessive.

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Pat, I have to clarify this with urgency, the Oak Alley Cocktail Bar is not a gay Bar. Oak Alley was a refuge for the Heterosexual Seminarians and their families.

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Leather Sofa, Cocktails and Seminarians with Erasmus Girls. Monday nights half price. Oak Alley saved alot of the heterosexual seminarians from being molested by Mullaney’s crew.

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