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FATHER MARSDEN’S PHAMPLET – THE PRIEST AS SPIRITUAL FATHER.

“A Defence of why the Catholic Church teaches that Men with Homosexual Tendencies are unsuitable for Priesthood”.

PAT SAYS

I promised that I would read this booklet and summarise it on the blog.

IMPORTANT QUOTES FROM MARSDEN

“We are created and drawn into this life (God’s) through two distinct modes of being. The identity of fatherhood defines a man as motherhood defines a woman” p 1

“Rebellion against against our own gifted ness as Mothers and Fathers is to refuse the authority of God our heavenly Father”. p 1

….what has changed is the way a significant section of the psychological world evaluates homosexuality. This shift has been brought about exclusively by a crusade of strategic lobbying and political agendas” p 17

“Yet despite decases of militant activism, endless campaigns and celebrity endorsements, one fact remains remarkably unchanged, “no theorist has yet presented a credible model of non-traumatic early development that would result in homosexuality”. p 18

“…….homosexual desires (are) the result of a psychological or emotional wound that impedes the developmental maturation of the individual into adulthood”. p 18

“Dr Elizabeth Moberley …early 1980s – ..she identified a rupture in the normal attachment process of a child with their same sex parent due to a perceived deficit of that parent’s nurturing role”.  p 18

“The neurotic nature of homosexual relationships manifests itself due to each partner seeking to heal psychological wounds”. p 24

“Candidates who have a sibling with same sex attraction who is actively campaigning for the rights of homosexuals ……raises a red flag as regards the candidate’s suitability for Holy Orders”. p 33

HOMOHERESY

“….an initial homoclique can become a homolobby then strengthen into a homomafia”. p 39

ATTACK ON FATHERHOOD

“Satan’s primary strategy is to damage and abolish human fatherhood”. p 44

MASS FACING THE PEOPLE – ATTACK ON PRIEST AS FATHER

Quoting a Father Cipolla

“One one of my many stats in Italy I noticed that many of the baby strollers were built such that the baby sat in his seat and faced the mother who was pushing the stroller”. p45

“I would attest that the radical innovation,  never mandated by the Council or any liturgical book, of celebrating Mass with the priest facing the people, has transformed the priest’s role at the Mass from Father who leads his people to offer Sacrifice to the Father  to the mother whose eye contact and liturgical patter banter with the people whose sometimes deliberately silly behaviour, as if the people are infants, reduces his role as a priest to the mother of the infant”. p 45

MASCULINE THEOLOGY

“If the Catholuc faith is to re revitalised it will need the priesthood to regain its proper sense of paternal authority.

“The task of acquiring effective maturity for the seminarian requires an increased emotional vocabulary  the honing of relational skills and the ability to build collaboratively, but priests are first and foremost men”. p 46

PRIEST AS FATHER

“Priesthood is intrinsically bound to fatherhood in that their modes of being are almost identical”

“The very essence of Hod as father is symbolised in the malness of the priest at the altar” p 47

PAT SAYS

I do point out that I am only publishing parts of Fr Marsden’s book. There is the argument that the full booklet must be read to give everything the proper context.

He certainly sets out his stall with conviction.
But is his conviction based on sound science or has he allowed very right wing RC teaching to pollute his science?

Can we regard God as purely MALE?

Is not God ultimate oneness and ultimate diversity. Can God be squeezed into absolutely into only MALENESS and FATHERHOOD?

Is Marsden not implying that you cannot be a real man if you are not fathering?

I think that his contention that homosexuality is a woundedness based on childhood trauma and a bad father is extremely controversial and unscientific.

Are all homosexual neurotic – and more neurotic than heterosexuals?

I agree with him that the RCC has progressed from HOMOCLIQUE to HOMOLOBBY TO HOMOMAFIA.

The bit about Mass facing the people sounds psychobabble.

Are priests first and foremost men? Are they not first and foremost human beings?

I imagine very few psychological scientists would agree with Marsden.

I imagine very few theologians would either.

If I had a seminary would I put him in charge of it?

No!

I do not accept, generally, his theology and psychology.

TODAY – THE 44TH ANNIVERSARY OF MY ORDINATION.

130 replies on “FATHER MARSDEN’S PHAMPLET – THE PRIEST AS SPIRITUAL FATHER.”

You’ve been on the blog all day, probably drinking all day too. Do you want to drive that young priest to a nervous breakdown, or worse? Imagine you worrying about maniples and stalking round the internet for photos and videos?
You are as tragic as you are cruel and you are deep in sin.

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Finally Peter Littleton finally has made it to be the main topic in the comment field on this blog! He certainly had (and has!) issues at his time at Wonersh and should never have been ordained. Enough stuff on him for both one and two blog posts. Obsessed about homosexuality and gay people, yet he is a real Queen himself.
I wonder what happened with his super fancy coffee machine he had in one of his rooms? And if anyone has a picture of him from his trip to Kenya a few years ago that definitely should be uploaded here – we’re talking about a back then future to be priest dressed like he was traveling during the colonial times.

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Next, check out this blog post by longtime SNAP National Director David Clohessy on the response to COVID-19 compared to the long-term crisis of child abuse.

An All-Women Inclusive Online 8-week Trauma-Informed Yoga Series Survivors of Sexual Trauma

Starting June 4th, Colleen Caul will be hosting an Online 8-week Trauma-Informed Yoga Series for Survivors of Sexual Trauma, an inclusive space for all women: cis, trans, queer, non-binaryfeminine people. Through the healing power of meditation and mindful movement, as well as journaling and art exercises, Colleen strives to create a supportive environment to empower individuals to tune into their breath, reclaim choice—the first thing that sexual trauma strips away—and to discover what will most nourish their bodies at any particular moment. More details for this series can be found here.

Using Our Voices: Our Message to Male Survivors with Jim Struve, LCSW QnA with Rape Recovery Center
Recently, Jim Struve, LCSW and the Salt Lake Rape Recovery Center joined together to answer questions and share a message for all male survivors during Sexual Assault Awareness Month. Jim Struve, LCSW has been a practicing social worker since 1976. Jim is one of the founding members of the LGBTQ-Affirmative Psychotherapist Guild of Utah, Executive Director of MaleSurvivor.org and is the manager for the Weekends of Recovery retreat program for male survivors of sexual trauma.
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How to care for yourself after experiencing trauma
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Read Christa Brown’s article in Religion News: There’s a new Baptist sex abuser database, but SBC action is still needed.
Read Michael McDonnell’s commentary in the Catholic Philly: Abuse survivor’s spiritual growth shows the church can heal, too.
Watch the Emmy-award winning documentary, “The Fifty Year Secret”, featuring Becky Ianni’s story of abuse.
‘I am 13 years clean and still working on recovery’ by PK Hill
Read Dottie Klammer’s ‘Letter to the Editor, May 19, 2020: Silence won’t end scourge of sexual abuse’
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In Britain we apparently have something for those who had been sexually molested as children by churches.

We now need, additionally, something(s) for those:

– sexually and mentally molested as adults, by churches and others in authority
– mentally molested in childhood by ditto.

Everybody with energy and imagination, who is prayerful, please network!

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You say lonely curate so are you a curate….
you seem to have it in for Father Littleton and I am curious why.
Is he a better curate than you.
Seeing him on your tube I thing his Bishops needs to have a chat with him as maybe he is not called to the diocesan priest but rather the London Oratory or the SSPX.
But he is a bit confused in the Mass.
Hopefully Archbishop Wilson will have a chat with him but is the PP not giving him guidance as you cannot pick and mix the Holy Mass.

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i’m glad Pat that you have seen the “hired man” Marsden for what he is. Well apparently Littleton is straight, so yes, he would have been recommend by Marsden.

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Littleprick straight ?! He might think he is. Anyhow, it probably doesn’t make any difference because the prissy OCD camp queen will be incapable of forming any meaningful attachments to anybody, and would run a mile from the slightest physical affection. The boy is on a trajectory to very serious personal unhappiness, because he will find out one day that all the stuff he spouts is nothing, and he will discover he has nothing. Come back in 5 to 10 years and see what has become of him. I’m sure, sadly, that it will not be a happy story. We have seen it all before.

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Thank you, Pat, for high-lighting some of the specious nonsense that is at the heart of the RCC’s twisted and inappropriate understanding of human sexuality. Elizabeth Moberly! What a blast from the past, she is! NB “Dr” is accurate though entirely misleading, i.e. in Theology not Psychology let alone medicine. She was regarded in Oxford in the seventies as a pain in the neck, focused – or obsessed – , if I remember correctly, on women’s ordination. Maybe her experience of hurt and rejection by the High Camp Anglo-Catholic “sisterhood” which ruled the roost in those days, particularly at the notorious St Stephen’s Hose, influenced her attitude towards homosexuality. Her own sexuality was, perhaps significantly, undisclosed. Whatever: her attitudes and the persistence of characters such as Father Marsden in presenting them as somehow authoritative merely emphasize the gulf between the Church and healthy normal acceptance of human sexuality which is apparent today. The question is what fixates Moberley and Marsden: what is normal?

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While it might appear that Marsden’s views on sexuality and priesthood are based on some reasonably rigorous theological and psychological foundations, in fact what you usually find in these things is that the true genesis for the development of this thought is something to do with the individual proposing it. Namely, Marsden himself. This stuff comes out of a depth of self-loathing and hatred, and resentment, and anger, and just plain bile, that will have some foundation in his early life and experience, which has seared him so deeply that this kind of hatred and prejudice just has to come out. What he does, reasonably successfully, is to dress all that crap up in some mantle of theological and psychological respectability. Except that, most of us with any sense, can see through it. It appears that the rectors of two seminaries, albeit not perfect themselves, quickly saw through it and showed him the door. I just hope that he is not allowed the oxygen of publicity to continue putting forward this specious nonsense. People like Marsden are dangerous and divisive and do damage to individuals and to the Church. Don’t be fooled by him and his ilk. Including that little twerp Littleprick, who is the kind of guy who sucks this stuff up and spreads it around in his cringingly camp, high pitched, prissy manner.

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A lot of homophobic language and aggression here shame the priest isnt the right kind of gay the ones we approve of not the camp, prissy ones.

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Gays, even when “practising” and even when they have a Roman collar round their neck are ordinary people and not mentally ill as Fr Marsden in defiance of all qualified authorities would have us believe. It is he himself who is ill.

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Pat, you do not accept Fr. Marsden’s psychology, theology or spirituality. That’s your choice but very few of us likewise DO NOT ACCEPT theology, spirituality or pseudo psychology. Not do we accept your constant smashing of Catholic priests. Your view is very self serving, even though I admit you do much good and essential Christ like work.

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So, @ 1052, you are essentially saying that you accept a theology / psychology / spirituality that has its core a hatred and loathing of other human beings who happen to be different in some aspects of their lives ? I think we have seen this kind of thing before, and we know where it ends up – with something like The Holocaust. Once you think you can discriminate against people on grounds of difference of sexuality, you will then go on to discriminate against people on account of race, colour, religious, ethnicity, culture, even difference of Christian affiliation. You should be ashamed of yourself. Your negativity and hatred is, I have no doubt, the result of your own self-loathing and hatred. Keep that to yourself, please, and do not foist it on the world or the Church.

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9.41 and 9.58: My comment should have read that many of us do not likewise accept Pat’s theology, spirituality or pseudo psychology. That said, I abhor a theology or spirituality that makes anyone feel ashamed of their sexuality or sexual identity. I believe many of us who struggle with sexuality and sexual identity have grown up with a negative, brutalising concept of sexuality, thus living with inner conflict, guilt and shame. Human sexuality is a beautiful gift of being able to connect intimately and meaningfully with another human being. None of us should debase or devalue this gift in extreme, selfish and brutal sex, abuse or exploitation. I do not support the violent and abusive sub culture of theses industr and I commend those who abide by the integrity of their body and sexuality in relationships. The Church has screwed too many people, literally, with guilt around sexuality. We each must act respectfully and responsibly in our sexual relationships. Always. If not, the consequences are far reaching.

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During what weren’t as bad old days as we were told at the time, orientation was part of habitus which was in the internal and private forum. We confessed what sins we liked, if we liked (and I don’t know about actual clergy, but in those days we felt it was us that mattered), and “communion” wasn’t compulsory. A lot of men were just thought of as bachelor.
Along came meddlers that claimed to launch a council to abolish those goods, claimed to write council documents to abolish those goods, claimed to implement a council to abolish those goods. And claimed that they were claiming not to. Heenan only put a brave face on it because he was relieved he didn’t have to waste a third of more than the four years running, in that place.
This profoundly altered the nature of authority which fell back on untenable ontological categories, celebrity-fuelled intensity, and illogic around intrinsicism (not pointing out that lying illogic is intrinsically disordered). This enables the false elite to play fast and loose with the diplomatic fate of millions.
Always look to the dynamics and the boundaries MORE THAN what claims or is claimed to be vaguely “modern” or “unmodern”.
As for present-day triumphal manic or OCD types (men not in literal possession of themselves), they don’t always have to act out moral wrong, because their controllers will still think of something to get them to do, in good enough time.
It’s for lay individuals to use informed free discretion as to what they are each bound to and why (in my case, not Rome nor any appearance of sacrament).

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And I learned the hard way which other free individuals to mix with, in mutually, privately sharing insights into the meaning of Scripture and begging God’s help. It’s not natural to get some organisation to control my relating.

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While we had the English Tridentine Mass facing the people (objectively honest continuity), dishonesty hadn’t yet manifested, which it however did once this (I repeat English Mass) was abolished 5 years after the council. Our commenter of 2 days ago fails to convince of sound ecclesial grounds for trifling with livable faith. The disaster ensued in sexual and financial affairs as much as any other.

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If you have a sensible priest (and if nuisance parishioners aren’t mobbing you) you should arguably confess to him and listen to his sermons. But since the senior and international church abandoned principle, “communion” is bad for consciences.

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10:52pm
… And we do not accept the constant bashing, destroying and tearing apart of children or vulnerable persons, either by clerics or so called safeguarding.
That priest has a bit of what could be described as an obsession over human sexuality. Now any obsession is cause for concern; and these kinds of obsessions are always indicative of what POSSIBLY lurks beneath the surface.
Healthy Theology should include, among other things, a balance and understanding of one’s own psychosexual/biological/social equlibrium; while also being aware of other people’s general needs and health: LOVE in all of its dynamics must be about the OTHER(S)!
I’m sure we have all heard amusing anecdotes about the lazy boyfriend who falls asleep 😂
Anyway, some Church teachings on human love and family life could be cause for concern. God made man and said, ‘He should not be alone.’
Giving an aquinted adult a ‘slap’ on the asre and asking if they woud like to go for a pint is one thing – but unfortunately, some of the issues which keep cropping up are alot more sinister: and the cause of lasting pain and damage!

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Och Pat, ah havnee heerd a bonnie wee Scottie voice the whole day lang. Och am lonesome for the sweet soond like a wee babbling brook doon in the glen o’ Glenmorangie. Will tha nay come back agin, Pat? Must be afeard o’ tha wee beasties, or havin a wee dram so?

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The huge main flaws are:
– lay priesthood always was “true catholic” all along – but never “official catholic” (big difference)
– while sacraments existed, clergy role was in performing these and giving sermons
– lay people including singles should join together in “fathering and mothering” their peers and even elders. In practice relating is suppressed alogether. Everybody should be mentoring everybody in looking after everybody.
– no-one asks laity for their opinion what Scriptures mean, and by opinion I’m not talking about agitating I’m talking about getting on with our lives. The new religious high demand movements claim to step into the gap but their real motive is to create a bloc of just as unthinking tools as the “main” church
– being clergy is seen by Marsden as a step up – to my family it was a step down – less useful than the coalman and only marginally more reputable than the dentist
– I don’t get to hear of any bicycle touring campaigns in aid of drumming up laity and the results show
– according to the videos, only by the beer swilling and skateboarding and religious mania in seminary will you get to have any mates
The psychobabble Marsden cites don’t help a whit with this. Marsden and Oakley deserved each other because they both claimed to follow the contradictory mishmash in the CCC.

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— The life of St Anthony the Great. Combat with demons…
“In the night they made such a din [demon] that the whole of that place seemed to be shaken by an earthquake, and the demons as if breaking the four walls of the dwelling seemed to enter through them, coming in the likeness of beasts and creeping things…
“And the place was all a sudden filled with the forms of lions, bears, leopards, bulls, serpents, asps, scorpions, and WOLVES, and each of them was moving according to his nature. The lion was roaring, wishing to attack, the bull seeming to toss with its horns, the serpent writhing but unable to approach, and the wolf as it rushed on was restrained; altogether the noises of the apparitions, with their angry ragings, were dreadful.”
— Though he was in terrible pain, St. Anthony responded boldly to the demons:
“If there had been any power in you, it would have sufficed had one of you come, but since the Lord has made you weak, you attempt to terrify me by numbers: and a proof of your weakness is that you take the shapes of brute beasts.
… If you are able, and have received power against me, delay not to attack; but if you are unable, why trouble me in vain? For faith in Our Lord is a seal and a wall of safety to us all…”
… Suddenly, the roof opened up and a bright light filled the tomb. The demons vanished and his pain ceased. Realising that God had saved him, he prayed [morelikely screamed at the top of his lungs lol], “Where were you? Why did you not appear at the beginning to make my pains to cease?”
And God replied to him: “Antony, I was here, but I waited to see your fight; since you have endured, and have not been beaten, I will ever be a succor to you, and will make your name known EVERYWHERE!”

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1:12 am

Are the homomafia taking over the joint. ..?

“Fear not little flock for it pleases the Father to give you the kingdom…..”

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10:15
Yours must rank as THE most egregious misapplication of sacred scripture in three thousand years: that Luke’s Jesus was, in this verse, addressing his remarks to a group of homophobes. Irony of ironies that of all the gospels, Luke is the one with a consistent concern for the outsider and the marginalised, and those described as sinners – who were constantly Jesus’ table companions.

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Further to 11.25, mafia (in whatever disguise) aren’t outsiders (and I know mafia in person). Jesus isn’t in favour of omerta. If you’re not in favour of omerta you are not being adversely commented on in any comment.

Mafia pretend to be who they pretend to be, in order to stir up strife (I know them in person).

CCC was written by mafia to stir up strife. CCC is not magisterium and is not catholic doctrine (only Roman).

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Pat the deep Homosexual desires brought about a psychological or emotional wounds can be related to the sexual abuse of Paul Prior and Michael Mullaney as Seminarians. Mullaney and Prior were ravaged by Drury for years. It’s an abuse circle of history repeating itself. I’m told Prior’s family have disowned him due to his sexual behaviour at home.

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Pryer and Fanny were never abused by Drury. That’s a lie.
Even is someone was abused, it in no way justifies them if they perpetrate abuse on others.
In fact, most survivors of abuse do not go on to perpetrate abuse – quite the opposite. They become very sensitised to protecting others from abuse.
When an abuser claims to have been abused, it cannot be taken at face value in any case. Abusers are notorious liars and they will do anything to get sympathy and to justify their behaviour.
Dragging poor old Drury RIP into this is malicious. Whatever he was, he not an abuser.

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Drury had an eye for handsome young men but not an abuser. Fanny and Polly Pryor wouldn’t have attracted his eye. Fanny was always somewhat frumpy and Polly was a simpering girl laying out her knicker collection.

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9:53
Well said! That scurrilous rant you responded to is a despicable screed – calumniating a man who can’t defend himself.

Not surprising that the poster at 3:56.a.m. (Enough said.) hadn’t the he courage of his convictions to make his allegations directly to R.Drury.

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Yes, even as young men, Fanny Mullaney and Captain Underpants struggled with their weight, and as such were spared longing looks from Kitty.

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Father Marsden went head to head with Mullaney in the community Sunday Mass Homilies. Fr Mullaney ‘we should be open and pastoral to those who are gay, bi and trans’. Marsden ‘we are living through dark times with gay marriage ‘. Mullaney became outraged at Marsden’s homilies as a result seminarians were brutally interrogated do you agree with Fr Marsden. Marsden was struck of the roster for the community mass and isolated by Mullaney. Those young adults who said yes I agree with Fr Marsden suffererd terrible abuse, Mullaney unleashed his network to bully, abuse and even persuade senior clergy in their home Diocese to get rid of them. In short saying no to Mullaney means death or worse sexual abuse by his crew.

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This might not apply to 5.12 which is saying something very different. Why hide behind 3.56 to condone what is in 5.12? That would be dishonest logic.

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True, Pat.
The homoclique progressed to homolobby, are now a widespread homomafia. Omerta😷
No wonder there’s an obsession with all things frilly !! That right, luvies😉
Where’s th corset….!😝

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7.01am: Sr Betty – what are you doing up so early? Could it be that your body is so if that bath time requires hours? As for a corset…the mention of it suggests you need one to hold in those boulders you carry!! What about your sagging chin from gossip…?? Who helps you with your might cracks!! Frilly albs are useless…as for gloves? Plastic is preferable to leather…rough but pleasurable….now off you go Betty dear and have fun…

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Marsden, Mullaney, Prior, Collins – along with some of their counterparts at OooohScott, Alice Hall and Wankersh – for reasons at opposite ends of the extreme – are entirely unfit for purpose.
These men are not fit to be formators of priests. “By their fruits shall you know them”, Jesus said. Well look at the rotten fruit produced by the “formation” in the current seminary systems in Ireland and Britain:
Men leaving priesthood after a few years; rampant sexual immorality in seminary and after; “Clerical Sugar Daddies”; the entire Gorgeous” saga; “Horny Andy”; “King Puck”; Red Roaree of Ara Ceilidh; John Paul Trekkies Lyttle; Matthew Jolley ….. and on and on.
The system is broken in pieces. The foundations are destroyed.

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By implication this is derogatory to women and typical of a lot of gay men, they hate women, they want to riducle them or make a parody joke out of them , why ? Because they have the one thing they cant have which is a straight man. Gay men say they are born that way but fantasise that the could drive a straight into such lust that they would desire them more than a woman, yeah right. Stop hating women and other gay men.

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11:28 is so right about a lot of gay men hating women. Drag is a gay version of blackface and a grotesque parody of women.

There’s deep childdhood stuff of distant or absent fathers going on, mixed with hatred and resentment of allegedly domineering mothers who get the blame. Is it any wonder that gay men are anything but happy emotionally, with much higher levels of depression, alcoholism and, sadly, suicide.

It is also right that straight men are prized in the gay world. On Grindr the ads say “no fems, no fats, no camp” and people say they are straight-acting, or even more farcically, call themselves straight lol.

The other paradox is why so many gay men were repeal the 8th merchants. It’s not as if they have a dog in the fight.

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9.43

Marden’s, er, stuff is a latter-day penny dreadful, and it isn’t worth even that much.

There is no reputable science to back up his quaint theories about homosexuality as the result of childhood psychological trauma; none to support his grand vision of priesthood as spiritual fatherhood. This is entirely whimsical, as is the strange notion that fatherhood is something gay men simply couldn’t manage as priests. (Strange not least because most priests have no experience of actual physical fatherhood, so referring to priesthood in this way is patently absurd.)

Pat, I posted you a longer, more analytical post last night. Did you receive it?

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Oh, of course he would ! Have you ever seen such a manly man, a prospective model of fatherhood, than Father Littleprick ? So balanced, so mature, so emotionally developed after nine years in seminary formation. Father Prior could give the seal of approval on his underwear choices. Oscott College could train him in the niceties of drinking gin. Allen Hall could show him the practice of liaising intimately – and chastely – with other seminarians. You could find no better man suited for the priesthood following a formation like that.

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That little twerp Littleprick still hasn’t deleted his Youtube nonsense and his Lonely Curate blog. Idiot. He is asking for trouble. If he continues to put his head above the parapet with his twee camp nonsense and ersatz theology, he is making himself a supreme target. Is he really looking for spiritual and emotional martyrdom ? I think he needs to do the sensible things and disappear from sight for a bit. Please, his Archbishop and his PP, have a word with him. You know it makes sense !

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Hes certainly your target, go and speak to him in person if you feel so strongly, tell him his voice is wrong, his choice of vestments is wrong, his preaching is wrong Im sure anyone would be happy to take that level of criticism on board and become a better person after hearing it, make certain you call him prick, camp, immature etc

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10:33 – Oh, sounds as though you have got a thing for him ! Very protective. Look, the little shit is using the priesthood as a stage for his own purposes, not as it should be used. He loves all the attention, he’s a little performer, it’s all about him. He’s found a medium he can use for those purposes while shielding and protecting himself by saying he is only being orthodox. But, believe me, it is all about him. Selfish little twat that he is. And, in the process he is doing damage to lots of people by his so called orthodoxy.

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A seminarian told me that when he decided to leave seminary, his dean tried to wheedle out of him the reason for doing so. The dean suggested one thing after another, but the seminarian denied them all. Finally, the dean gingerly asked: ‘Is it anything…incompatible with priesthood?’
The seminarian knew what was being alluded, and answered ‘no’.
What the seminarian found odd here was not the question itself, but the fact that the priest who had asked it was clearly ‘camp as Christmas’. 😕

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I was surprised to see that the lockdown breaking MP Barry Gardiner is married and has a wife and children. He makes James Martin SJ sound butch.

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10.25: Why the f**k would a seminarian speak to you, vile creature? Go to your cave and stay there forever. What a liar you are.

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All the 4s 44. Well done to survive and keep a straight head in a madhouse. God as a fella hi. I believe the greatness of god transcends our notion of sexuality. In the life to come we will be like the angels neither male or female but hi

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10:58 AM
Good Afternoon hi fly.
Begorra fly 44 many more.
The bish is on the job awhile now.
Must be getting the hang of it.
In for the long haul what.
The good God’s greatness transcends all.
We are merely peas in a pod. Don’t pop til the final call…..
May the Force be with you. +
Bye bye fly hi.

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i’d be interested to know what work / ministry he is doing these days ? Is he still with the SCJs and is he doing formation work for them ? I hope not. It would be interesting to know from SCJ correspondents, or others who know what he is currently up to.
You know, sometimes you have to keep up the pressure on these guys who spout so much bile and hatred, camouflaged as orthodoxy. So, it’s right that Marsden, Littleprick and others have the pressure kept on them, just as it is right that those who are hypocrites when it comes to their priesthood, especially in what they profess but how they live, have the focus kept on them too – people like Rory, JPL, Hilton, Gorgeous etc. They probably think that they are being unfairly treated, but if blogs like this don’t keep them under the microscope, who else will ? Certainly not their bishops who are complicit in their hypocrisy.

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Is MJB still a deacon ? If so, did he not take a promise of celibacy at that ordination ? Has he been dispensed from it, and from the clerical state ? I’m not so sure he is free of the canonical obligations he took on at diaconate. As to his sacramental ministry, I guess he could claim that he is not performing sacramental ministry. I think the Archbishop of Dublin does need to clarify the status of MJB. I’m expecting that suddenly, like a rabbit out of a hat, MJB will be ordained soon, certainly before Dermo leaves Dublin. He might make a good pastoral priest. But the issue at stake here is whether he can act with integrity and honesty when it comes to his promise of celibacy. Actually, I don’t care if he gets his end away, but what I do care about is him publicly saying he is celibate, but on the quiet being sexually active. That’s the problem, for him and for any clergy who lead parallel and secret lives. It eats away at trust and faith in the clergy and the Church.

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MJB is no longer in sacrament ministry. He is no longer bound by canonical obligations restrictions. From what I see he is doing good work in a hospital.

I think Marsden in heavily involved in the Theology of the Body movement in the USA.

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10.59: Why should Fr. Marsden not be allowed to interact with young men? Are you afraid he’ll teach them truth or lead them in moral ways and teach them self respect and bodily integrity? Kerp up the good work, Fr. Marsden.

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Yes, indeed, Pat, I was wondering when someone was going to congratulate you, and was about to get in there myself: ad multis annos! Well, done, with the grace of God, for 44 years of brave and faithful ministry. You continue to be an inspiration and a voice for truth, sanity, and compassion, especially for those out of the clerical loop.
If I might connect you both, I was also struck by the reference to Michael Byrne – wait for the troll to pop up to suggest I am the well-known “obsessed stalker”. By all accounts Michael has been performing a greatly valued hospital ministry for some time now yet without clerical status or the accoutrements of privilege discussed recently on this blog. Might it not be then that Michael is now successfully fulfilling what he had previously discerned as a clerical vocation in a far more authentic ministry which does not require membership of a clerical caste? I should like to believe he has found himself, redeemed himself, and provides true compassionate service to others. He looks happy, and frankly whom would you rather have at your hospital bedside, MJB or one of the cast of the clerical freak show from yesterday?
So, let’s be positive for once and celebrate the good in our sisters and brothers. Well done, +Pat, and well done, Michael – and many blessings to you both!

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Thank you.
Yes, my understanding is that MJB is doing excellent work in his hospital. What better ministry is there than walking alongside the sick the dying and their distressed relatives. And, free of canonical restrictions, he can now live the life of a private citizen working for the health services. I do wish him well.

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The alleged victim refused to come forward and make a report. That was his right. But if you are going to make an accusation you need to put your money where you mouth is.

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Pat congrats on your ordination anniversary. Pat you saved the lives of those seminarians who were raped, groomed and violated in Maynooth. The exposure has caused you know who’s network into hiding or exile. Next stage Pat is is a public investigation and redress scheme for the survivors.

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12:04 pm
A public investigation or inquiry into seminaries in ireland. Remember Michael Deegan. Rip.
Let us not forget.

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Alpha Masculine cadre predestined to be “inserted” into Omega Point.
Fake trads = Teilhard de chardin = Mimetic Dialectic.
Cosmetic variant: ex Red Brigades c/o a foreign location, of no fixed duties; and the “non-activist activist” “lay clergy” ex Lotta Continua.
Lay confessors don’t need any period of postulancy. Bishop endangerment is now more chic than child endangerment (to flaunt).

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Bp Pat, I take it Marsden has written and printed this booklet at his, or his Order’s expense. Apart from you, and probably the Little Rancid Flower, who else will want to read it? Also, it is free or do you have to buy it.

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I think the booklet was published by Lumen Fidei. Its costs euro 2 plus postage. If you are going to criticise a man you must read what he has written???

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Pat, you might be interested that the plan is to turn the seminary buildings at Maynooth into housing, and build houses on the land.
Kildare County Council conducted a consultation and St Patrick’s College employed hotshot lawyers to argue for more housing.
The council will make its decision shortly.
And so Maynooth comes to an end, all because the lads couldn’t keep off Grindr.
https://www.leinsterleader.ie/news/home/548274/maynooth-politician-voices-fears-for-plans-of-high-rise-buildings.html

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I’ve just had a look at the “Lonely Curate” blog. It does seem very naïve in so many ways; when we are younger we may feel we have all the answers … and in spite of the lace and biretta-wearing which aren’t at all my kind of thing, I saw nothing that justifies the frankly homophobic abuse directed at this young man, whatever his actual sexual orientation is.

If there is a story which supports criticism for hypocrisy, that is one thing. But much of the criticism is quite unpleasant. I notice a lack of recent posts and am hopeful that someone older and wiser has “had a word”.

The same could be said at what has been directed at a priest of the Leeds diocese. If he is a hypocrite, out him with actual facts rather than vague innuendo to which there can be no reply.

As to Fr Marsden, the selected quotations do appear to me rather disturbing and based on a very warped thinking. I certainly would not wish him to be my confessor or spiritual director and if his writing gives a flavour of what former students have claimed about how he behaved when teaching in a seminary, I’m glad he’s no longer involved in formation. I’m also glad that some of his students there had the courage to call him out.

I’m less convinced that seminary training, even without the “funny goings on”, is the right preparation for a priest. Much better to do a solid theology degree in the “real world” mixing with a variety of people and then do a series of parish placements with sensible priests on the frontline who can guide and direct aspirant priests with their “lived experience” working alongside the people of God. Other professions, notably teachers and social workers, who do not dissimilar tasks, train in that way. I know the parallel is not exact – but there is a basis there for rethinking. Far better a training that produces a more rounded individual than spurious “teaching” akin to that summarised above which is only going to warp, damage and distance a would-be priest from those to whom he is likely to minister.

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2:10

You say “out him with actual facts rather than vague innuendo to which there can be no reply”. But alas the comments section on this blog is all about innuendo rather than fact. It could be classed as a form of bullying. The comments descend from discussing issues to some sort of bear pit.

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Happy Anniversary Pat
Lovely picture. So full of hope.
Little did you know what you were letting yourself in for. Still you lived to tell the tale. 🙂

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“When you come forward to serve the Lord prepare yourself for tribulation” (Ecclesiasticus).
It’s all being worth it – though I’d not want to come through many of the things again.
Thank you.

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God bless you Pat! And many congratulations. One of the things I find inspirational about you is your welcoming people into your house at a time when they need it. And, God knows, there are times when all of us need a helping hand.

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4.24: Pat, 44 years is an achievement. Well done. Perhaps now while you are in the autumn of your life, you might reflect on all the hurts received and given. You’ve been hurt: life can be very cruel to us in unexpected ways. Often we are the creators of our own misfortunes and struggles; other times they are foisted upon us by the sheer selfishness and abusive behaviour of others, sometimes from within the presbyterate. After 40 years of priesthood, I try to maintain a reasonable, controlled disquiet and anger about the non-essentials, the silly stuff, the nonsense from within the Church…To remain sane and calm and attached foremost to Christ alone and let him be my template in all things, is my salvation. But what a struggle!! Like you, if I was to start all over again, I would hope to have a much more life-giving, life-enriching and positive experiences…and be a greater and better force for good. Enjoy your milestone on this Feast of the Most Holy Trinity.

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@2:53 pm & 4:24 pm

Hemingway once said, ” You have to hurt like hell before you can write seriously.
But when you get the damned hurt, use it, don’t cheat with it”.

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I hope Fr. Marsden finds the man of his dreams in the USA. Theology of the Body conferences are great places to pick up men who are also in denial.

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Pat, the horrendous vulgar name calling of the newly ordained priest being featured on your blog is immoral. Were such comments posted on Twitter or Facebook or other media outlets, there’s be an outcry. Rightly so. I’m sure at your masses you pray for an end to racism, bigotry, demeaning insults, evil, wrongdoing, injustices, un-Godly living and – undoubtedly – your main prayer is one that we respect and value the dignity of human life, yet somehow, quite inexplicably, you allow all that is contrary to these values – horrible, abusive, dehumanizing commentary – be heaped unfairly upon this young priest. I’d like an honest answer in justification of your behaviour! We can disagree with his views without this vicious bitchiness and toxic poison. How can you, in moral conscience aporove of this onslaught? No hiding…please respond.

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I agree, the blog has an even more unpleasant tone since this new, frankly dangerous sounding stalker started a day orvtwo ago. Pat should be ashamed allowing it.

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Frankly what is wrong with him is his senseless sacramental eucharist mania and his too pleased with himself manner (and much of his training) (he also needs help for his considerable eye trouble). Given what diocese Wilson comes from and what diocese Wilson is now under the iron grip of, we shall have to wait and see about Wilson.

Pat may or may not have a mysterious standard to allow comments. Evidently substance of argument – however brief – often isn’t one. But I think it is a cry for help. We have to remember what pressure is exerted against him. Some of us have turned agnostic. But those of us who are praying types, would we please pray for the safety of Pat’s work and a on balance good impact of these columns.

God doesn’t care a fig about silly gaffes about embroidery – either way – but He does care about betrayal. There are those who have come over to our side – at cost – and we should rejoice, and welcome them.

Why am I the only one criticising the sacramental eucharist mania that has entrenched increasingly everywhere?

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Well well. Fr Peter has upset the gays and just look how vicious they are!! Thank God they don’t control the church and other countries, unlike the UK, have followed Rome’s guidelines. Now we can see why. The gays are not pastoral at all. They just attack anyone who disagrees with their promiscuity! Gay bishops, priests and seminarians have corrupted the church in this country and the hierarchy have been complicit. Immaculate heart of Mary intercede for us.
Just have to love them and hate their sin.

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Happy Anniversary Bishop Pat I hope by the Grace of God you see your Golden Jubilee.
You do fantastic work in highlighting the wrongs in the Church and these so called priests.
I am glad you have give Good wishes to MJB and that shows the kind of Holy Priest you are.
Keep up the Good work as you are listened too.
As for the constant talk about father Littleton hopefully his Archbishop will speak to him soon as he seems a lose canon.
As it was said on here before Archbishop Wilson is NO fool.

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