Categories
Uncategorized

SSPX- TRADITIONALISM AND REPORTS OF SEXUAL ABUSE.

THE SOCIETY OF ST PIUX X was founded by Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre who disagreed with the Second Vatican Council the the Mass in the vernacular.

This week, on Monday on fact, they ordained a decent number of young priests in Econe, their HQ.

The ceremony was 3 and a half hours long and the ceremonial was uber.

Here is the video. Watch it or dipin and out of it.

https://youtu.be/q2agiaLYvHs

I was amazed, not only to see their new young priests, but also the huge number of young men and seminarians involved.

We have somehow thought, that the older generation are lapping up their Latin Mass – but it seems the young are lapping it up too.

Currently they have over 600 priests.

SSPX AND SEXUAL ABUSE

In recent times there have been reports of sexual abuse by a small number of SSPX priests – maybe 10 or 15 of them.

It has been highlighted by Voris and Church Militant.

Here’s a recording.

Some questions arise in my mind:

1. Is SSPX a useful or needed phenomenon?

2. Is it an aberration or cult of some kind?

3. What about the fact that many of them dont believe the last number of popes are valid popes?

4. What about the accusations that many in the SSPX are neo Naxis?

5. How far should the rest of us go in making room for them and accommodating their liturgical and theological needs.

I’d like to hear your views

PATS MINISTRY 1980s

GO FUND ME NHS

Someone maliciously contacted the GO FUND ME people and said that our effort to raise funds for the NHS was fraudulent.

As a result, everyone who contributed is receiving their donation back.

I believe this action was taken by corrupt clergy or seminarians exposed on here.

They are so full of corruption, hate and sexual promiscuity that they would even deprive the sick and dying of help.

How is this not Satanic?

89 replies on “SSPX- TRADITIONALISM AND REPORTS OF SEXUAL ABUSE.”

What?! The older generation are lapping up the traditionalism of the SSPX? The young too?

You’re having a laugh, right?

The fact is that the overwhelming body of Catholics worldwide, over 1 billion of them, couldn’t give a fig about the SSPX, and they have demonstrated this by NOT flocking to join their ranks.

All these Catholic traditionalist organisations, considered even collectively, are a very, very tiny rump, an utterly failed social experiment. And they will remain this way, since their thesis (that a return to Catholic so-called ‘traditionalism’ will restore the Church) has been proven utter balderdash. The groups have had more than enough time to make their mark, but they haven’t managed to come within even light years of this.

They, and their extremely limited numbers, are the irrefutable proof.

Like

You’re having a laugh, right? The fact is the overwhelming body of Catholics worldwide couldn’t give a fig about Catholicism and have demonstrated this by leaving in droves.
“Fear Not little flock I am with you to the end.” The Church will be saved not by the number of nominal catholics, but by those who remain faithful to its Magisterium.

Like

8.00, raising a strawman is a logical fallacy and just makes you look desperate. Did I say ‘defeated’, too?
The point is obvious: the whole basis for these off-shoot movements is that a return to Catholic so-called ‘traditionalism’ would restore the Church. Well, the plain fact is that it didn’t. And it never will, because this was never the issue. That was the RCC’s abject failure historically to show Christ to the world. So forget about such silly notions as being faithful to the Magisterium : it was the cumulative effects of successive magisteria that brought us to this point.
As the Three Little Piggies would say, the House of Rome was so strong that the slight winds of liberalism that blew predominantly in the 20th century were able to bring it down.
No ‘huff and puff’ about it. 🤣

Like

1. Is SSPX a useful or needed phenomenon?

It would appear that it is.

2. Is it an aberration or cult of some kind?

No more than the rest perhaps…. I guess we’d need the evidence of members and former members. I read a commonweal article about ICKSP where dissent was not tolerated, perhaps conformity is maintained similarly in SSPX? https://www.commonwealmagazine.org/no-one-expects-inquisition

3. What about the fact that many of them dont believe the last number of popes are valid popes?

In common with ICKSP !!! lol !!! He, Francis, (The Pope) is a valid bishop, let him stick to his see and let his equals manage theirs in partnership with their priests and people.

4. What about the accusations that many in the SSPX are neo Naxis?

There are many so called orthodox catholics whose views inhabit a rather too right wing position for my liking. Without inciting violence or secular discrimination, after teaching how they must, let the apparent wheat and tares grow together and let the lord of the harvest decide.

5. How far should the rest of us go in making room for them and accommodating their liturgical and theological needs.

As far as they are prepared to go in accommodating liberal liturgical and theological needs.

Like

10.42, your final point nails the argument against the SSPX. They do not tolerate dissent, nor do they tolerate liberal and liturgical theological needs; they have contempt and disrespect for all these.

Why would any Novus Ordo Catholic respect them in return?

Like

Lots of hints over the months of dirt / questions about + Oakley. The scrutiny of the nuncio should surely have been enough to dig out anything strange ? Although, they are not always that rigorous with their intelligence. Think of + Conry of A&B. So, maybe they did miss something about + Oakley ?

Like

The disgraced Matthew Jolley also used his Twitter account to disparage James Martin SJ. I am impressed by the line up of speakers – and particular respect to Bishop Peter Doyle. Not my scene but I’m interested to see Quest is still going. I have never been sure what their line is: should one just be grateful for crumbs of sympathy and understanding, or are genital acts okay? If not what is the difference between them and Courage – just slightly less ashamed maybe?

Like

10.46 – yes I think you are very balanced about the ostensible issues, which are the real ones for so many ordinary people I know. I am exactly in very strong accord with you there.
The other day we were fearing the Courage group was being used as a political battering ram and sadly that is what so many other movements or apostolates of all kinds get misused for, by persons able to make bad use of their prominence, against the will and interests of the ordinary members and genuine beneficiaries.
In front of the mismatches in recent Vatican doctrines, which we dissected in recent weeks, the church politicians ought to allow more room to plain good will, and less to string-pulling, where it has occurred.
Because of those mismatches, Marsden’s line comes over as naff but that doesn’t mean the bullying got adequately adressed (plus, homophobic gets disguised as homophilic and v. v.)

Like

I have been a long-standing member of the SSPX, brought my wife and 12 children there years ago. To answer Bishop Buckley’s questions generally, I support Archbishop Lefebvre and his goals of tradition; we have a right to those things as the Holy Father in his Motu Proprio Summorum Pontifical has established. BUT — The attention to tradition and form can sometimes obscure the main point of command our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ gave us: “A new Commandment I give you, Love one another.” 1 St. John 13:34-35.
Charity needs to be the first focus; otherwise we become like the Pharisees who had tradition, form and ritual but were lacking in charity and humility. To illustrate, when we arrived in the SSPX community, the priest demanded that we put our children in their schools. A few years later I began to feel very uncomfortable as they excessively controlled my wife and children (expecting obedience), but the loyalty to me, the father, was lacking. Long story short, they retaliated when I tried to pull back, and entered a divorce decree against me (citing the school issue and my lack of loyalty) took my wife and children, and I have little hope of ever getting them back. The SSPX “trial” was a sham, as I was not allowed to respond to the false and/or exaggerated accusations, and Canon law procedures were not followed.
Consequently I now live alone, and every day I have to ask myself if this is really happening — how can those who go by the name of “Catholic” be into such savage cruelty? The answer is partly due to highly closed-off sectarian communities, that are many times fraught with strong conflicts of interest that go unimpeded (e.g., like the case of St. Joan and Bishop Pierre Cauchon). Canon law prohibits this, as a judge cannot have a close acquaintance or great animosity, and appeals should be done by another diocese, with the ultimate right to appeal to the Holy See always in place. These principles are not honored in the SSPX (including they put at the end of the divorce sentence against me “there shall be no right of appeal” — trying to block any recourse I had to the Vatican). Further, they have no jurisdiction in authority to do tribunals and handle marriage cases. For these reasons, I believe the SSPX is schismatic and cult-like. Take my advice: If you go there, make it clear that you are there for the sacramental forum only, do not let your spouse and children get involved with the clergy or even the community or you may suffer the same fate that I did.
To get back to His Excellency Bishop Buckley’s questions:
1. Is SSPX a useful or needed phenomenon?
We need the traditional Mass and sacraments, so please make that available in a generous fashion. This will eliminate the need for Catholics to go to outside groups.
2. Is it an aberration or cult of some kind?
The goals of the founder Archbishop Lefebvre, were good, and he was a saintly person. However, the people that came after him are many times crooked, many times a victim of their own closed off group, but they have become schismatic, cultic, and dangerous. They are also infiltrated with pedophiles, with the extent yet unknown.
3. What about the fact that many of them dont believe the last number of popes are valid popes?
The SSPX does believe the popes are valid; the “Sedevacantists” do not. But the SSPX is schismatic because they “resist” wherever they want, and censure members with authority they don’t have. I haven’t seen those same problems in sedevacantist groups.
4. What about the accusations that many in the SSPX are neo Naxis?
Not really true — There are a wide range of views and not usually nazi, but you will get some that are more far right in these groups.
5. How far should the rest of us go in making room for them and accommodating their liturgical and theological needs.
Dear Bishop, you need to accommodate them, as mentioned above. Otherwise, many of your devout Catholics will be pushed out into these outside groups and get burned like I did.
I’d like to hear your views

Like

Follow the money to Fr Ramon Angles, former SSPX Superior in Ireland and now being investigated by the Irish and US police.

Like

I think the SSPX’s reputation is worse than it is. I’m not convinced many of them would be sedevacantists. An official publication on that is here:
http://archives.sspx.org/miscellaneous/sedevacantism/little_catechism_on_sedevacantism.htm
The reason for their bad political reputation is firstly the holocaust denier Williamson. Secondly in France the trad movement is more intertwined with right wing politics than in Ireland or the UK. Don’t get me wrong, most trads would still want a Catholic civilisation but in France this has become a thing called integrisme:
https://fr.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intégrisme
At its worst this is entwined with nationalism and frank racism – the symbols of Catholicism of course then get associated with this nonsense.
It’s even more complicated by the French Catholic Church being even nearer to total collapse than it is in Ireland so there is a stark contrast with the vitality of traditionalism.
Also a lot of other trad groups disapprove of their discussions with ‘new’ Rome and the SSPX has lost a number of people and priests over this.

Like

I think SSPX is a sect rather than a cult, Bp Pat, although +Bernice Fellay could be a cultish type figure. He has a big… well, let’s just say, dimple (if you catch my meaning).

Like

@ 7.07, I’d have thought ‘anachronistic amusement’ a better description of them.
They’re a bit like those old carts and horses you see rarely on the roads these days: they bring an amused smile and are a temporary distraction from the real world.

Like

The old Alpine faggot is getting on a bit now, but I often compared him with +KOB; two big attractive men in their day. Of course, +Bernice is a lot camper than the late Jock.

Like

She looks older than sixty-two. The +Aul Doll is wearing better, but that’s probably down to Oil of Olay.

Like

I’ve watched that video of the Econe ordinations. What a pantomime ! Littledresserup would not be out of place there ! It’s mildly diverting to watch, but I did end up thinking, did they not all have something better to do than prance around for 3 and a half hours on a sunny day ?!

There is definitely a sublimated homoerotic whiff to the whole thing – all those clean cut, nice haircut, young men in their early 20s, many of them with spectacles which they probably don’t need but which they think will give them some gravitas ! The only dog or donkey in the whole thing was the Capuchin with the ring of hair around his head. What did they call that. He looked as though he could do with a good wash and a trim.

This stuff is real silliness, and apart from offering a little diversion from the rigours of the real world, I do not take it seriously, and do not see this particular dark corner of the Church’s life as anything but odd. However, I know some will be wanking themselves stupid over this video and wondering how they could emulate it in Tooting Bec.

Tell you what, + Wilson could solve his Littleprick problem by seconding him to SSPX, and then leaving him there !

Like

8.41 Can I reassure you again as you do not seem to understand and like to constantly keep mentioning Father Littleton.
The Archdiocese of Southwark including it’s very able Archbishop Wilson and well experienced Auxiliary Bishop’s have NO yes NO problem with Father Littleton.
And furthermore the people staff and patients at St. George’s think he is a very Holy Man also his parishioners and fellow clergy Love him as well.
Contact Archbishop’s House and they will inform you of the facts.

Liked by 1 person

Jim S – are you sure you are not the Littleton obsessive that keeps appearing on here ? Every time he does, then you turn up. Are you providing excuses for you to talk about Littleton and the Southwark grandees that you keep mentioning. I’m wondering…… Your hagiography of Littleton is a little suspect (!) I feel. Methinks you make the man sound as though he is too good. That’s got to be covering something up.

Like

If Jim S would just shut up, and Littleton obsessives would go away. He keeps the pot boiling. Why ?

Like

11:21
If you have time, contact as many apostolic nuncios, bishops, archbishops, matriarchs, and patriarchs too.

How do the poor diocesan secretaries cope with that nuisance and pest Jim when he telephones them and is not minding his own business?

Like

Well we can all tell what you are, if you think that an ordination ceremony which was the norm until 1970 is as you describe it .You remind me of someone who trolled this blog for too long. Using the same most disgusting language, there is only one place for you to go, and the sooner the better.

Like

Is it a bird Is it a plane. Hi Tis Superchurch There are many paths and groups that may lead to God. Without Jesus these groups are just part of the wacky warehouse wannabes

Like

I wondered about that, Bp Pat, but I had updated the camp-name-roll-call with “+Auld Tarty” of Glasgow before it disappeared.

Like

There is no ‘Safeguarding’ link or statements on any of the SSPX websites. Perhaps +Elsie should have a word with the UK district as they call it.

Like

Sadly Cardinal Nicholls or any the Bishops can instruct the SSPX what to do as they have a contact direct to Rome.
The SSPX are very keen to come back to the main fold however they want it in their conditions and that will not happen.
It sis a Father that is in Charge of the SSPX and none of their Bishops was suitable.
certain things the SSPX must inform the Ordinary of the diocese they are in like weddings and so on but it just gets noted.
Why would the Church settle for mince when we are steak.

Like

I think it is going to unravel pretty quickly for the SSPX, and we shall see some of their members doing the Perp Walk.

Like

Pat, I don’t agree with everything you represent as a catholic, but I’m so sorry that some person has invaded your integrity to discredit the genuine ministry you offer.

Liked by 1 person

Come off the wine and see the picture there are as bad in some situations as us.
They have Parishioners there on Sundays who like some of our foolish clergy go and sleep with married people and see the closeted gays.
They certainly are not pure and Christian.

Like

Come off the beer,you’re certainly not pure or a Christian you’ve just gave yourself away, you’re the auld gossip still poking your nose into other peoples business when you should be looking at your own.

Like

This SSPX Sect was fined for holding Mass as they think they are above the law.
Pope Francis needs to address it was and for all rather than them and there sect.
The GB SSPX has joined up with Ireland however they are being watched due to the Covid 19 in how many they try and pack into their churches and the Masses have to be short.

Like

Only four minutes after posting under his name, Jim S posts anonymously. He’d be better off taking 14 minutes. That way he could proofread his words of wisdom and save some face.

Like

8.58 Bishop Oakley was appointed very quickly as Bishop Peter informed the laity that it could take up to 18 months and issued everyone with a prayer card to pray for his successor when appointed few months and along comes +Oakley.
Remember Gb has had No Papal Nuncio since last August as Archbishop Adams went on his birthday did not hang around until a replacement and No replacement as yet.
East Anglia has been waiting longer.

Like

Ahhh, as ever, Jim S, the confident and FKA of all dioceses, north, south, east and west. + Adams had some odd connections. Very culture wars type, establishment connections in the USA, big Trump supporter etc. etc. I’d say he’s back in the USA now living a very, very comfortable life, supported by rich rich wing nutter US Catholics.

Like

Reading this blog over many months as a modern non- believing Irishman, and seeing the cattiness and candidness of so many commentators on male desire, can I suggest people read an essay by Luke Brown in this week’s TLS £3.90 most newsagents, called ‘Emasculated; The problem of men writing about sex’, and among the people Brown discusses are the Irish novelist, very much in the news, Sally Rooney, J.M. Coetzee, on heterosexual sex and Rob Doyle on gay sex. None of them are concerned with Catholic sex, if there is such a thing now.

Like

GO FUND ME NHS….+ Pat, sorry to hear about this. What low life whoever has done this. And, it will only be to get at you. No thought of how that money could go to the NHS and a good cause. Just plain vindictive and nasty. It is, however, an indication of how you are able to get under their skin, and that is a good thing, because it makes them feel uncomfortable, keeps them on their toes, and makes them realise that they can’t just get away with what they always have got away with ! So, do not be deterred, + Pat. There are lots of us who are grateful that you are who you are and that you provide this forum. Thanks.

Liked by 1 person

Hi All,
Firstly, Archbishop Lefebvre wasn’t just for retaining the Traditional Latin Mass. He was opposed to many of the novel ideas pushed through at Vat II, not least the inter faith movement culminating in Pope John Paul II having an Interfaith day of prayer at Assisi. It is said this brought him to realise that he could no longer wait for Rome’s approval and consecrated Bishop’s to continue the SSPX ministry without its consent. He didn’t want to die without making provision.

It is because of the SSPX that Rome founded the Fraternity if St Peter, to bring back numbers of priests who had left.

It is stressed in the Society that Francis is Pope. The current Pontiff is named in the Canon of the Mass. The Society exists to ordain priests free from modern error. It is not a lay movement. Technically a member if the laity cannot join the SSPX. Many do of course attend a chapel served by the Priestly Society.

Rome has recently removed the excommunication of SSPX Bishops (except for Williamson). It has also said that SSPX priests may marry couples and hear confessions.

You are also allowed, in necessity, to attend an SSPX chapel if you cannot attend a Catholic Church with Canonical status.

To say the SSPX is a small, fringe group is wrong. In Portsmouth Diocese we have 2 SSPX chapels. I’d say there is typically a Sunday congregation, across these 2 chapels of 150. The demographic tends to be young/middle aged married couples (often foreign) with many children.

So this is around the size of an average Diocesan parish.

Bishop Egan has met the SSPX priests within his Diocese and has prayed the rosary with them.

Considering the SSPX is spread throughout the world with hundreds of priests, religious houses, schools and a number of seminaries it is quite impressive for a group that started in the 1970s.

I wouldn’t say that it’s a cult. If it is then so is the FSSP , Institute of Christ the King etc

Like

12.14, you are right. They should not be called ‘a fringe group’ ; I think ‘rump’ a better term, as they are behind not only historically, but right on the butt of Roman Catholicism and the nonsense that comes from this quarter.
According to the Rump itself, they have a quarter million dupes worldwide. Now I may not be a wizard at Math, but when you compare this figure with the official number of Novus Ordo Catholics, 1.2-1.3 BILLION members, you get a more realistic sense of just how successful the Rump has been in proving its point since its formation in 1970.
‘Small’ is inappropriate to describe its size.
‘Barely visible’ might be more honest. 🤣

Like

The Post Conciliar Church is on the floor, and has an identity crisis. It is not in good condition. You quote big numbers, but a tiny percentage actually believe. Vocations are a sign of life and God’s blessing. You should do a comparitive study of the traditional vocation numbers versus the Novus Ordo ones. I think that should inform you which will go the distance, the Church of all time(not just from 1970) will go the distance

Like

Blah Blah  — 2:14 pm  —  ”  …   the novel ideas pushed through at Vat II  “————————-You’ve made a very important point there, BB.
The management of V2 was in the hands of some very dodgy theologians, such as Karl Rahner SJ.
The rot in the Catholic Church had started much earlier when Pius XII gave theologians leave to believe to propose whatever they liked.   
But it was the documents produced by V2 that have torn out the soul of the RCC.

Like

1.22 Sorry to disappoint you but my salary is paid for by the Dioceses and furthermore they are Colleagues and will not see me as a pest.
We have good Zoom calls over the blog.
11.33 I am on here daily and Father Littleton has been advised to pay no attention to the blog and not even look at it.

Like

Oh, come off it, Jim S – Littletwerp is sneaking a look at this blog every day, and enjoying all the attention it is bringing him, and enjoys being able to position himself as victim. He’s probably having long, sympathetic conversations with + Wilson who is telling him that he is truly valued and his ministry is such a gift. However, if was him, I’d stay quiet and keep my head down. There are some people who will eventually leak the real truth about him and his antics. Thee is always something lurking in the dressing up cupboard that isn’t a fiddleback, or a maniple, or a biretta. It could be something of the lace and pompom variety !

Like

You certainly do not know Archbishop John Wilson oh yes he maybe a Holy and Humble Man.
But there is the other side to him and he is very able and stands No fools if there were any.
As some would say here a company man but we are not a company.
He is a First Class Leader in Southwark.

Like

+ Wilson to move across the Thames when + Elsie goes to Chiswick ? Odds ? He seems to be the up and coming thing these days. Will he clip + Stock and + Longley to the post ? I think we should be running a book on this race. Any other suggestions ?

Like

I think the less than moderate comments about him that keep persisting are from persons without sincerity, maybe those who alleged wrong over the GFM funds.
Presumption about public attitudes to sacraments (however orthodox such presumption is) was flagged up, and was noted coming from others than him also. The person(s) that harps on about this individual gives no reason or cause for the continued campaign of dislike, suggesting it is not a genuine objection to the man.
Having said which I keep hearing how charitable fund raising through GFM appears more difficult to present as reliable, than longer established methods. It’s to be hoped these “teething” problems will be ironed out. Maybe the NHS forgot to gear up to administratively accept donations?
I am heartened to hear good words for SSPX (apart from highly specific failings in certain quarters), CM and CT. Blanket condemnations have always sounded suspicious. One could critique parts of their presentation of doctrines, just like the Vatican’s, or some elements of their advocated strategies, but it is VERY complicated. If you can’t do the real issues any shred of justice, stop trying to sink our boat because we smell rats.
The Editor of CT is one of the rare people to acknowledge the brutal abolishing of the English Mass facing the people, without recourse, for the purpose of wedge driving. A pope who makes himself central in this should not be sainted in such a hurry (mere window dressing as it is).
The people that finnick about lace, then, are the same bullies that claim to take exception to perfectly harmless mannerisms of an individual of good character and morals, who got accused of wrong a year or so back.

Like

3.35, Jeez! I wouldn’t want to be a shop assistant hearing you order groceries. Or a motorist unfortunate enough to stop you and ask for directions.

You talk utter crap. And this isn’t the first time on this blog.

Take some advice. Stop trying to impress people here with how clever you think you are, because you are nowhere near as clever as you believe.

Write simply to write persuasively. For God’s sake! And for all our sakes.

Like

😉 🙂 🙂 Terrible way to address His Grace The Archbishop Of Glasgow Philip Tartaglia.
A True Gentleman and Holy Priest.
A Great Friend too.

Like

Bp Pat, the SSPX even have an outpost in Stronsay in the Orkney Islands. You’d think there were enough backdoor Deirdres already on Papa Stronsay with all those Transalpine Redemptorists.

Like

6.49 – Absolute filth. This is a Catholic blog. Keep your disgusting band sordid comments to yourself. Get help.

Like

5.36 It is a rejected Redemptorist priest and Redemptorist Brother who are in Stronsay for the SSPX not their own recruits rejected Redemptorists.

Like

5.27 Cardinal Nichols likely not going till 23/24 so quite a while yet.
Nobody even knows if Pope Francis will be there either as he is tired these days.
So Westminister very unlikely to cross the Thames therefore Bishop Mason would be front runner or Bishop Stock.
Archdiocese of Wales (21/22) and Archdiocese of Liverpool (24)will likely be filled before Westminister.

Like

Jim S. You constantly fill this blog with shite. Why don’t you find a hobby or do something worthwhile with your life?

Like

8.02: Jim S should spend time in his loo depositing this crap which truly belongs there….utter s***e all the time.

Like

The two dioceses in London are Southwark with Archbishop Wilson and in Westminister is Cardinal Nicholls and teh river Thames is a big river in London. Google earth it.

Like

Archbishop Wilson’s sermons are appalling modernism but how could they be anything else? He looks obese and people say “ he’s so nice” he needs to go to fat camp or stop drinking first

Like

Jim at 9.27pm Yes I know about London – I live in it! But you are talking a load of bull. You haven’t a clue what will happen with regards to bishops.
You’re claiming that +Vincent will go on until he’s 78/79? Then you claim that the Archbishop of Southwark won’t go to Westminster. Wilson is head and shoulders above all the rest of the hierarchy.
Are you sitting there with your Crystal Ball?

Like

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out /  Change )

Google photo

You are commenting using your Google account. Log Out /  Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out /  Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out /  Change )

Connecting to %s