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CATHOLIC CHURCH TOLD TO CLOSE ALL GROUPS IN SCOTLAND PROMOTING GAY CONVERSION THERAPY.

By Niall Christie TYE FERRET

All major psychological organisations in the UK consider conversion therapy unethical

THE Catholic Church has been told to act swiftly to shut down groups across Scotland accused of promoting gay conversion therapy after local community, school and university priests were linked to an international anti-LGBT organisation.

Priests have come under heavy criticism for their promotion and management of branches of Courage International, a Vatican-approved anti-LGBT programme which campaigners claim has long-standing links to so-called “cure therapy”.

Since 2017, the church in Scotland has strengthened its connections to the programme, with half of Scotland’s eight dioceses and archdioceses now hosting meetings run by local priests.

Across Europe only Italy has more chapters of Courage than Scotland.

The organisation does not believe people can be born lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgender and teaches them to live “chaste lives”, abstaining from sexual activity and suppressing their sexuality.

According to LGBT rights charity Stonewall, conversion therapy, “cure therapy” or reparative therapy refers to any form of treatment or counselling which aims to change or suppress a person’s sexual orientation or gender identity.

All major psychological, psychotherapeutic and counselling organisations in the UK consider conversion therapy in relation to gender identity and sexual orientation as unethical, potentially harmful and not supported by evidence.

Earlier this month the Conservative Government confirmed it would shortly be bringing forward plans to ban the practice across the UK.

While Courage claims it does not officially endorse the use of conversion therapy by its branches, its teaching and insistence LGBT people must remain chaste falls within Stonewall’s definition of these conversion techniques.

A spokesperson for Stonewall Scotland told The Ferret: “The promotion of the idea LGBT people can and should be cured or changed, is extremely dangerous, particularly for impressionable young people who may be seeking answers about themselves.

“These so-called conversion therapies have been condemned by all major UK health organisations as they try to shame a person into denying a core part of who they are.

“Same-sex attraction is natural and normal. Lesbian, gay, bi and trans people are not ill. LGBT people seeking support need to be accepted for who they are, not subjected to prejudice and these harmful practices.”

Campaigners and politicians have now said the church must act to end all links with Courage International.

Scottish Greens co-leader and equalities spokesperson, Patrick Harvie MSP, said: “I wish I could say I was shocked this cruel and dangerous practice is taking place in Scotland at all, but the fact it appears to have grown in recent years is a moral stain on Scotland’s ambition to be an inclusive and welcoming country.

“Even the Tory Government in Westminster has recognised this should be illegal. The Catholic church in Scotland must act swiftly not only to publicly condemn conversion therapy but to put an immediate stop to their members’ promotion of it.”
Courage’s branches in Scotland launched almost three years ago after a UK tour by Courage director, Father Philip Bochanski.

The Diocese of Paisley was the first area of Scotland to launch a Courage chapter in late 2017, organised by Bishop John Keenan.

Bishop Keenan has travelled across the world for conferences linked to conversion therapy techniques, including with a delegation of young people from Scotland during a July 2019 trip to Courage International’s annual conference in the United States.

The former Glasgow University chaplain gave the closing speech at the gathering last year, where he said he had “admired Courage for decades”, before acting as the keynote speaker at an online conference run by Courage during lockdown in April.

LGBT Catholic advocates have said the continued promotion of conversion therapy within the church is “cruel”, warning it causes long-term harm to the health of gay and queer people.

Francis DeBernardo, executive director of New Ways Ministry, said: “We have heard from people that some leaders and local chapters have recommended it to people.

“Recommending this kind of therapy, especially when it is connected to religious ideas of repentance and prayer or is conducted under religious auspices, is psychologically and pastorally harmful.

“Catholic Church officials, at all levels of governance, should roundly denounce and forbid the practice of so-called conversion or reparative therapy for LGBT individuals.”

Following the launch in Paisley, two groups – in Glasgow and the Diocese of Motherwell – were started by local priests in 2018 as part of a Scottish expansion.

BISHOP Keenan’s successor as University of Glasgow chaplain, Father Ross Campbell (above), also set up his own Courage chapter in Scotland, before joining him on the journey to Courage’s conference in July 2019.

Father Campbell reportedly carries out his ministry off campus to avoid confrontations with LGBT campaigners. He says his work as Courage chaplain for the Archdiocese of Glasgow is done separately from his work as university chaplain.

A priest working with schools and youth groups in North Lanarkshire also continues to operate a Courage branch, launched in 2018.

Father Martin Delaney, who works at St Aloysius’ Catholic Church, Chapelhall and Sacred Heart, Salsburgh, works as chaplain for schools in Motherwell and is in charge of youth ministry for the diocese.

What is conversion therapy? – TREVOR

Conversion therapy, sometimes referred to as “reparative therapy,” is any of several dangerous and discredited practices aimed at changing an individual’s sexual orientation or gender identity. Conversion therapists use a variety of shaming, emotionally traumatic or physically painful stimuli to make their victims associate those stimuli with their LGBTQ identities. According to studies by the UCLA Williams Institute, more than 700,000 LGBTQ people have been subjected to the horrors of conversion therapy, and an estimated 80,000 LGBTQ youth will experience this unprofessional conduct in coming years, often at the insistence of well-intentioned but misinformed parents or caretakers.

Does conversion therapy work?

No. Conversion therapy is premised on the false notion that being LGBTQ is a mental illness that should be cured, despite all major medical associations’ agreement that LGBTQ identities are a normal variant of human nature. In fact, the American Psychiatric Association determined that homosexuality was not a mental illness in 1973.
In addition to its flawed foundation, no credible scientific study has ever supported the claims of conversion therapists  to actually change a person’s sexual orientation. On the contrary, a 2007 report by an American Psychological Association task force found that “results of scientifically valid research indicate that it is unlikely that individuals will be able to reduce same-sex attractions or increase other-sex sexual attractions through [sexual orientation change efforts].” In fact, Dr. Robert Spitzer, whose research had previously been misused to support conversion therapy, has retracted his original claims, stating that data regarding conversion therapy had been misinterpreted and that there is no conclusive evidence for its effectiveness.

Is conversion therapy harmful?

Yes. The risks of conversion therapy extend far beyond its ineffectiveness, and the time and money wasted on “therapies” that don’t work. The American Psychiatric Association has clarified that “the potential risks of reparative therapy are great, including depression, anxiety and self-destructive behavior, since therapist alignment with societal prejudices against homosexuality may reinforce self-hatred already experienced by the patient.” The Pan American Health Organization, a regional office of the World Health

Organization, concluded that conversion therapy, “lack[s] medical justification and represent[s] a serious threat to the health and well-being of affected people.”

Conversion therapy amplifies the shame and stigma so many LGBTQ young people already experience. Parents who send their child to conversion therapy instill feelings of family rejection and disappointment and risk seriously fracturing their relationship with their child. In a study by San Francisco State University, lesbian, gay and bisexual youth who were rejected by their families and caregivers due to their identities were nearly six times more likely to report high levels of depression and more than eight times more likely to have attempted suicide when compared to youth from accepting and affirming families and caregivers. Few practices hurt LGBTQ youth more than attempts to change their sexual orientation or gender identity. All youth deserve a climate in which they are loved and embraced.

This Courage International crowd are a group of religious nuts.

Conversion Therapy goes against all decent scientific and medical understanding.

It’s a vile abuse of a human being. It’s like something out of concentration camps.

Its thoroughly disgusting, but hardly surprising, that it is being promoted by the RCC.

It should be outlawed everywhere.

Those practising it should be prosecuted, as should promoting it.

Someone said: “Sex will be the Catholic Church’s 20th century Galileo”.

It has come to pass.

PAT SAYS

Gay conversion therapy is nothing short of evil.

It is a Nazi like procedure.

It should be absolutely illegal.

Those who promote and practice it should be prosecuted and attract long sentences.

———————————————————–

MICHAEL J BYRNE PUBLISHES HIS FIRST PROFESSIONAL PEER REVIEWED PAPER ON HOSPITAL CHAPLAINCY..

https://journals.equinoxpub.com/HSCC/article/viewFile/41625/pdf

Someone pointed me to a new paper published online by Michael J. Byrne who is now a lay chaplain at St Colmcille’s Hospital Dublin.

I was very impressed with the article which explores the use of technology by chaplains as they reach out to Covid patients who are in medical isolation.

The article points out the normal feeling of isolation when one is unwell but the increased sense of isolation when you are cut off from all human contact, except medical staff in ppe.

It mentions Jesus’ experience of isolation in Gethsemane and how Covid is a “leprosy” in the sense of no one being able or wanting to touch you.

This was something I saw patients experiencing when I ministered to dying AIDS patients in the 1980s when they were ministered to by people like me, wearing something like space suits.

28 years ago I celebrated a wedding for a dying AIDS patient in Belvoir Park Hospital, Belfast.

Thankfully that is no more with the wonder of the antiretroviral drugs which stop HIV infected people getting AIDS at all.

And of these Corona viruses have the potential to be more devastating than AIDS ever was.

So, Michael, if you’re reading this, or anyone draws your attention to it, well done on your first professional paper and on the difference you are now making in the lives of the sick and dying.

165 replies on “CATHOLIC CHURCH TOLD TO CLOSE ALL GROUPS IN SCOTLAND PROMOTING GAY CONVERSION THERAPY.”

I enjoyed reading Michael Byrne’s excellent article. He made the interesting point that chaplains who were relating to patients remotely via tablets might have been the only person without personal protective equipment that some patients saw.
I’ve met you, Pat, and always thought you would have made a great hospital chaplain, with your wisdom, brilliant listening skills and ability to talk easily to everyone.
Cahal missed a trick there. If he wanted you out of a parish and in a more hidden ministry he could have made you a chaplain in one of the big Belfast hospitals, which you might have liked.

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I would have been very happy to be a hospital chaplain. I was chaplain for a while at Bridgend and Cardiff in Wales.

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Courage is mendacious if it claims it doesn’t promote conversion therapy. By touting the Ratzinger line that homosexuality is innately disordered, it inculcates the notion on young people even still at school that they are sick, afflicted or addicted. Obviously this is going to create life-long shame, self-loathing and suicidal tendencies. That these charlatans in the guise of school and university chaplains should be able to promote their poison unchecked is disgraceful. It’s about time the government took action against this hitherto sanctioned abuse. I wait to see if Bishop John Keenan or some other idiot such as Egan or Dark Mavis has the brass neck to start bleating about religious freedom. Elsie of course will wisely keep her trap shut. Excellent news on MJB by the way – I’d trust him over the Courage creeps any day.

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I think it wonderful that God himself is overseeing the destruction of an evil empire that had the temerity to claim it functioned in his name.
The RCC is being taught its place in modern society, free of popery: and that is its fat head under the heavy heel of secularism, forever, and pastorally, stamping on it until the lesson is submissively learned. And the lesson is that a church that has committed so much, and such profound , evil against children should be in the heavy chains of restraint, not given the freedom to wreak further havoc among the young. Like Socrates (accused of corrupting youth), it should be, um, encouraged to drain a draught of hemlock
The idea is almost…orgasmic.😕

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Let’s be careful. Courage urges celibate chastity on gays but its links with Conversion Therapy are anecdotal. Closest thing to a smoking gun might be connections with NARTH. The effort of some is to bring the church itself under the accusation of backing Conversion Therapy.

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The Church does back so-called ‘Conversion Therapy’. In very recent years, Pope Francis supported the Mexican bishops in their attempt to prevent their government from making this ‘therapy’ for minors illegal in the country; the bishops were successful.
And on one of his flights, Pope Francis suggested psychiatric referral for the very young if their parents were told their children were gay.

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https://www.newwaysministry.org/2019/06/01/pope-francis-on-lgbt-people-if-we-were-convinced-that-they-are-children-of-god-things-would-change-a-lot/
He clarified his comments
(NOT MUCH OF A CLARIFICATION, ALAS):
“I got angry, I was furious at how [the answer] was transmitted. About the family integration of people with homosexual orientation, and I said: homosexual people have the right to be in the family, people with a homosexual orientation have the right to be in the family and parents have the right to recognize that child as a homosexual, that daughter as a homosexual. You can not throw anyone out of the family or make life impossible for them. . .
On his use of the term “psychiatrist” at the time, said,
“I meant a professional because sometimes there are signs in adolescence or pre-adolescence and people do not know if these are of a homosexual tendency or is that the thymus gland did not atrophy in time, or, well, a thousand things, right? . . . . The headline in the newspaper read: ‘The Pope sends homosexuals to the psychiatrist’. It is not true! They asked me that same question again and I repeated it: ‘They are children of God, they have a right to a family, and such. . .That does not mean I approve of homosexual acts, far from it.”

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3.22, I believe what the journalists reported in 2018.

Pope Francis is self-contradiction personified; he is also, in my opinion, a liar.

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@ 3.27, and yet Pope Francis supported, in 2018, the lobbying of the Mexican Government by native bishops to ensure that the practice of so-called ‘Conversion Therapy’ remained legal. How does this square with those expressed apparent concerns? In truth, it does not, because it cannot.
I find that Pope Francis, when he’s caught with one hand in the cookie jar of public controversy, will react in a child-like fashion by expressing denial: that he was, as it were, simply putting into the jar whatever cookie he was accused of filching from it.

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The ref to Socrates is interesting. In a time of political repression, he had to confine himself to encouraging question-asking. The Jesuitry we’ve been seeing however, is merely ***t stirring.

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Rev. Michael Jack Byrne (Gorgeous)

I am surprised by your well researched and insightful article.

I am struck by your clear passion for ministry, a ministry which is primarily based on the dignity of the human person. I see no judgment only understanding, love and compassion. You are adapting to the challenges set before you with Covid19 and you are modernising how chaplaincy is supplied. For that, I can only commend you.

I can imagine the pain, loss and embarrassment that you felt over these past number of years. What you have personally gone through would have broke many men. This can only be an indicator of the incredible strength that you must possess. When you speak about isolation and Jesus alone in the garden, I can see a young man who is standing there with Him and that young man is you. You have a deep yet personal understanding of what it means to be abandoned in your time of need – where is your bishop Diarmuid Martin? Where is the Church you have given your life to? They are nowhere to be found. The Church has let you down and for that I am truly sorry…you are a victim too in all of this.

This article helped me to understand you better as a person. For so many years, I have only allowed myself to see the person that they call Gorgeous, an overly sexualised, exaggerated and twisted version of you. I thought that seminarians/priests were jealous of your good looks and charm but this article proves you are much more than that. I see a man authentically living his call to diaconate.

If I was dying, I would want someone like you to be there with me. That is the greatest compliment that I can give a person and I wish you eternal happiness, love and peace.

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I can’t help but compare David Marsden’s article to Michael J Byrne’s article. One paper references evidence, imperial data and academically respected peer-reviewed material and the other is a homophobic piece of crap with no standing, support or evidence.
The jury is out.

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Absolutely agree with 1:25am and 1:40am. Michael has come through this as a better man – which is the journey of daily conversion for all of us. Meanwhile Father Marsden is a pitiable figure, and of our charity we might pray for his own conversion and liberation from his own demons. Michael is the future – our hero! ( I am of course being deliberately provocative in that last line by goading the nay-sayers – miserable wee buggers, as Bishop Richard Holloway once said of his fellow bishops. )

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I think Michael will be the most famous deacon to come out of the 21st Century. He is certainly a force to be reckoned with, that is for sure.

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Will a ban on conversation therapy also stop the groups where …oh… straight men are converted into…mmm…hot gay men?

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Are you sure your adulation for Byrne is rooted in just his apparent talent for hospital chaplaincy?

Hospital chaplaincy was not Byrne’s first choice. I have no doubt that he is using it, and the sick and dying, to rehabilitate himself.

I don’t doubt either that eager attention will be paid by Byrne and others to such forums as this blog to see whether that hoped-for rehabilitation has been successful.

Byrne has has eye still on priesthood; that is his ultimate goal.

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I think your comment is very cynical. Are you a priest? While being realistic we must always be capable of recognising the Good in everyone. MJB has put a lot of hard work these past three years into his chaplaincy training. His paper took a lot of hard work.

For now, let us recognise the Good and ask for God’s blessing on it. We are all sinners trying to do the best we can. The seeds are planted. Let us wait to see the crop.

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Here is the truth – I think Byrne could have got ordained if he wanted to. He has the connections and he has the ability. I think he made the mature decision to work on himself and focus on what is important to him and that is pastoral ministry. So many seminarians who had issues in the past just went elsewhere to get ordained. This man did not take the easy option like they did so I can only commend him for that.

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8.46, yes, I am a priest. And I’m also 5ft 10ins tall, have dark hair, and wear glasses; but what has any of this to do with my previous post?
I am not cynical about Michael Byrne, but I am sceptical ; you, however, are gullible. Together we are a perfectly balanced outlook on evaluating a supposedly reformed narcissist like Michael Byrne.
Given this man’s recent history (which you blogged on, accusing Byrne of lying to you), a certain degree of scepticism is healthy and mature.

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You being a priest is very important. There is a very virulent type of cynicism among RC clergy.

It is ok to be sceptical. But we also need to give people the benefit of the doubt.

Let the flowers grow. And then we can judge.

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9:02

The typical rantings of cynically minded negative priest. Where is your mercy Father? Let us all know who you are Reverend Father so that Byrne may have a right of response. It would only be fair to allow him to evaluate you. 🙂

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Benefit of doubt must be earned, not given. And with Byrne’s known history (God knows what his unknown history is), I, as a priest, shall prudently give that benefit to myself rather than Byrne.
As I said, you are gullible.

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Very judgemental comment to accuse someone of using sick and dying people! How were you ever ordained? Or what use is any prayer life you may live if this is its outcome?

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9.18, mercy without prudence is culpable recklessness. And you, I see, are very reckless.
Here’s a rhetorical tip: if you must resort to hyperbole to make your argument, do so at least plausibly; otherwise one tends to appear histrionic and unreliable.
‘Rantings’? My previous post? You made a point here, alright, with that piece of hyperbole, but about yourself rather than me.

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Thomas Aquinas “Prudence is that virtue by which bold men make right decisions”.

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I think 9:02 and 9:29 has all the hallmarks of Magna Carta. It wreaks of his negative insulting style. He talks about Byrne’s past but so much of what he was accused of turned out to untrue or unsubstantiated. Byrne is also entitled to a fair trial and not a trial by social media. The old adage – just because it is said, does not make it anymore true.

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9:29

‘I give that benefit to myself rather than Byrne’. – the true words of a real narcissist .

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9.49, yes, Pat. And the right decisions are right only if they are based on good evidence. They are not right decisions if appropriate evidence is ignored.

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11.24 on the other hand Aquinas could be quite a nominalist / selective pantheist around Transubstantiation.

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6.31, I only said that at 2.37 in that while Jesus is far bigger than the consecrated bread, He wouldn’t want to obliterate the nature and identity He Himself has willingly given all things. He is not a Nuclear Bomb. Hence His Real Presence in a kind of “consubstantiation plus”. On a bad day, Rome had copied what it falsely imputes to Christ, namely to obliterate our identity (through its proxies – including some “lay people”), then of course the world’s empires & mutant commerce copy that.

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An where, Father Holmes, have you come across such groups ? Please tell. Or is this just something you have made up out of your evident homophobia and anger…..?

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“The organisation does not believe people can be born lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgender and teaches them to live “chaste lives”, abstaining from sexual activity and suppressing their sexuality.” Courage is a “pro-chastity” ministry, not a therapy for gayness. LIke the Church it does not deny that one can be born l g b or t. The author should check his statements, which are refuted by the link he gives: https://couragerc.org/faqs/ He also says: “While Courage claims it does not officially endorse the use of conversion therapy by its branches, its teaching and insistence LGBT people must remain chaste falls within Stonewall’s definition of these conversion techniques.” That means that the Vatican falls within the definition of conversion therapy. This is just over-heated propaganda.

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Courage may not use the word ‘therapy’, but that is what it’s ethos, mission and methods spell by another name. It should be banned, because it works from the fundamental moral premise that being gay is not good, not natural, and that its practice is gravely disordered and sinful, and that its practitioners are not Heaven-bound. What more psychological and spiritual damage can be done to a conflicted young person than to tell them this about themselves, either directly, or subliminally?

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It means precisely that about the Vatican.
Did you really believe your final sentence was your trump card in this discussion?

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+Pat. Two subjects in one today? You should have separated these blogs and kept one for another day. Both are very topical. Bishop Keenan and Fr Campbell need reported to the Police for hate crime. Campbell needs sacked from Glasgow University for promoting this crap. I trust you will be writing the letters to both of them and to the University on behalf of your followers? I do wonder if Keenan and Campbell will sign up their brother Priests to
this clap trap? We all know there are a huge number of Priests in Glasgow and a significant number in Paisley Diocese are who homosexual, many are active. Time to call them all out? Re Deacon Michael – he is doing great and I am so pleased that he is making a difference. Very talented.

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Where “Courage” go wrong is by describing themselves as Roman. “Courage” should decide to run itself according to primary purpose. The Roman church is not run by catholics. Through John XXIII’s bad homework, Paul VI and JP II abolished relating, stunting the human race, and burned out what remains of us.
We are in no fit state to man PF’s army. Detach from convoluted Roman concepts. The values Rome told us it had thrown out (and I heard them say it, over 50 years ago) – meaning in Scripture, prayer – those are ours now.
If Scottish bishops as a group were to use Scottish law to break with Rome, they would gain time to establish sound doctrines. But will they?
Dad used to say: keep your religion private. He meant: from the Church above all!
Chastity belongs to everybody to apply freely to theirselves at informed discretion. It means a style or principle in sexual relating, e.g just for example not promiscuity. To teach oneself about one’s own view of virtues is for everyone. To compare privately our varied thinking, by illustrating, and not imposing, is part of friendship.
When “Courage” go this way they will be standing up for true religious freedom. The divided Roman Jagganauth crushed us little ones. Its eye is not single: Rev 3:15-16.

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According to his online engagements, Bishop Keenan attends quite a few of the Paisley chapter meetings. At least he’s leading from the front, as it were…

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Two very different images of religion today: one trying to make people other than they are, the other walking alongside the sick and dying. I know which one seems to me to be nearer to the Gospel Jesus.

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+Pat

It is important to recognize that Rev. Byrne is an ordained deacon. He may be operating in a lay capacity but like you he IS ordained and therefore has a title.

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I totally accept that he is a deacon and entitled to the title Reverend. Today I was concentrating on his role as a state appointed chaplain.

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+Pat
If Archbishop Diarmuid Martin came to you and said that he was thinking of ordaining him a priest before he retires, do you think you would support it?
The ordination Mass would go as follows:
Archbishop Martin – Do you find him to be worthy?
Bishop Buckley – After inquiry amongst the people of Christ and upon recommendation of those concerned with his training, I testify that he has been found worthy.

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Your scenario would never happen 😃

Every saint has a past and every sinner has a future.

There is good in the worst of us and bad in the best of us.

MJB is currently a lay hospital chaplain employed by the health services. It is a permanent position. All the signs are that he is doing a very good job.

I have no insight into his future but I do wish him well and wish God’s blessing on his efforts for the sick and dying.

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True. But it is a courtesy. Were I writing to MJB I would address that letter to Rev. I see the RCC is using the title Reverend Mr for deacons these days.

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When people try to discredit you Pat they call you Mr. Buckley. They cannot take away your ordination just like they cannot take away his.

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Courage. I think that in spite of the pitiful wails of Courage and other moralist extremists about freedom of religious thought, eventually we will see authorities around the world recognising that the thinking behind Courage and its activities are really harmful to the well being of young people, and they will be outlawed. We don’t allow other cultures and faiths to practice FGM or forced child marriage anymore, even though some faiths believe these are part of their faith, religion and culture. Why should we allow Courage and the Catholic Church to inflict damage on our young people of difference and diversity ? The first place that this could happen effectively is in schools. Any head teacher worth his / her salt, even in faith schools, should steer well clear of the likes of Courage. Parents and governors should rightly take a view as well and keep such malign and damaging influences away from our young people.

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Excellent post @ 9.04.
I once counselled a young man who told me that he had known he was gay from an early age (around eight years). He said that he had never, even for a moment, felt that his attraction to other boys was wrong; he was completely comfortable in his skin. He put no labels on himself: ‘gay’, ‘straight’, ‘bisexual’ were not part of his vocabulary.
But his self-acceptance was shattered when he was eleven years of age: his mother discovered (was probably told) that her son was in a relationship (romantic, non-sexual) with another boy. She interrogated him, slapped his face hard, and spat the word ‘queers’. From that moment began his self-repression, and his slide into depression, suicidal ideation, and Body Dysmorphic Disorder.
I wish organisations ike Courage would allow themselves to be schooled in the devastation such ideologies as theirs can inflict on people, especially on the young, turning many of them from well adjusted, self-accepting and happy individuals into grotesque psychological and spiritual caricatures of their former selves.

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How sad and how true. I suspect most people who are lesbian, gay or bisexual may recognise the scenario you describe. Your sexuality feels entirely normal and natural to you and as such is unproblematic. The problems come from society and pressures created by the views of others around you. Organisations such as Courage do not help in this: they simply make life more challenging, particularly for younger people, at a time when they have often have limited experience and a limited ability to withstand quite calculated psychological pressure. My priest told me aged 15/16 I was possessed because I told him I thought I was gay and offered to exorcise the “demon of homosexuality” from me. I hadn’t even done anything. I’m glad to say even then I had enough sense not to go along with it. I was 15. Now at nearly 50 I’m so glad I resisted. Honestly, thinking on it now, it was a form of psychological abuse.

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3.40, I am the poster at 10.55.

You displayed great discernment in not allowing that priest to perform on you a so-called ‘exorcism’ . First, he had absolutely no supernatural grounds for such a dangerous procedure (homosexuality is a natural phenomenon); second his church, even at that time, did not teach that the origin of human homosexuality lay in demon possession; and third (and following from the latter), he could not have had a faculty from his bishop to perform such an extreme measure on you.

In my opinion, this man might have taken advantage of you sexually had you taken up his ‘offer’. He may actually have been grooming you.

You were very fortunate indeed. I dread to think what might have happened to you had you been several years younger, and less mentally and emotionally equipped, therefore, to deal with such an apparently manipulative man.

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“the thinking behind Courage and its activities are really harmful to the well being of young people, and they will be outlawed.” That means the thinking of the Vatican, and yes, it should be outlawed.

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I doubt if Rev Byrne is thrilled to have all the plamás from the very same creepy queens who spewed out so much venom and slander against him on this site.

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I’d have more sympathy with Courage and similar organisations if they had similar outreach and ministry to help unmarried straights live chaste lives, and married people who are commiting adultery.

Why focus on gay Catholics, while ignoring and being silent about the great majority of Catholics who have sex before marriage and who contracept, both of which are contrary to Catholic teaching. Does the Bishop of Paisley talk about those things?

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It’s because the Church considers being gay the worst horror imaginable. And this is probably becsuse most of those who think this way are as queer as a banana on an apple tree.

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The HSE salary for chaplains

The Salary Scale of 01/09/2019
€47,589, €48,736, €50,124, €52,723, €54,279, €56,212, €58,158 LSIS

Hello Gorgeous! 😛

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So? MJB did the study, training, placements etc. He is professionally qualified. “The labourer is worthy of his hire”.

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Not a big salary in Dublin, though, where the cost of living is high and only a young man becoming a priest can think of having a house in the nicer parts of the city. He would have been better off financially as a priest, in disposable income terms.

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@12:38
My heart bleeds for you.
Never mind the real people on minimum wage who don’t get free housing and bills paid. You’re despicable.

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Hear, hear!

It is just like a priest to whine in these circumstances.

Priests are always telling lay people to count their blessings in adverse circumstances. That’s one of the platitudes from their big book of them.

But do they do when adversity (adversity, I ak you😅) comes knocking on their doors? They whine

POOR ME!😢

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Point of correction to the blog, Michael Byryne is not the author of the online article: at best, he is a co-author, since the article’s authorship is credited also to Dr Daniel R Nuzum. I suspect that he, not Byrne, is the intellectual power behind this piece, not least because it draws on at least two of Nuzum’s other publications for accredidation.
One poster said the article was peer reviewed. I found no evidence for this.
I think some of Byrne’s infatuated fans are carried away with themselves.

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You are saying nothing new. The information you talk about is clearly published on the paper with MJB named first. It is peer reviewed as his peers contribute to and read the publication.

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11:09 Academic publications by definition are peer-reviewed. The acknowledgements section proves this fact. Michael is clearly the primary author of the publication with Daniel the secondary author supporting his work. Daniel was his CPE supervisor and he is supporting his student, which is nice to see. You are creating something out of nothing 11:09

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11.28, the phrase ‘academic publications’ does not include in its meaning ‘peer-reviewed’. You have a peculiar dictionary.
To peer-review an academic publication means to evaluate it in writing by those qualified to do so. There are no such evaluations in the PDF download.
You referred to ‘acknowledgements’. There are absolutely no peer-reviews here; there are only references to editorial contributions from others. Editing is not peer-reviewing.
Byrne’s name appears first because ‘B’, the initial letter of his surname, alphabeticslly precedes ‘N’-uzum.

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11:28
Extract from their website
“The Health and Social Care Chaplaincy is a peer-reviewed, international journal that assists health and social care chaplains to explore the art and science of spiritual care within a variety of contexts”.
Here is the link
https://journal.equinoxpub.com/HSCC/index
The journal clearly states that it is in fact “Peer Reviewed”. 11:28 – you are wrong and yet again misinformed.

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11:44

The website says it is peer-reviewed. I have read other articles on the site and it shows that primary author is listed first. They are not alphabetically arranged.

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12.20, so where is the peer review of the article in question?

I never said that the journal itself was not peer reviewed; I said only that the PDF download of the article did not carry such a review. I was neither misinformed nor wrong about this; on the contrary, I was absolutely correct. Check for yourself.

If you posted at 11.28, it is you who is misinformed and wrong. ‘Peer review’ does not help define ‘academic publications’. And the ‘acknowledgements section’ of the article does not contain a single peer review. Editing is not peer reviewing.

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Am really happy for Chris; he’s a great, kind, and compassionate bloke. Yes, he was in a civil partnership with the love of his life. Is he now meant to pretend that this is not part of his history?
I have no doubt that out of this mutual love grew a love for God and the Church, and that drew Chris to the priesthood.
Keep beaming that lovely smile of yours, Chris. And ignore the detractors: you have God on your side.👍

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The obituary in ‘The Times’ of Georg Ratzinger put to bed the lie that he and his brother were Nazis.

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5.30, then that was not the truth, since both men were members of Hitler Youth, a pro-Nazi party and leadership organisation. This fact speaks for itself. Any attempt to say otherwise is risible spin, in my opinion.

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The bishops are trolling the Vatican now, in ordaining openly gay men. It is typical Catholic/Jesuitical behaviour to have an official teaching and then have a situation ethics workaround in individual cases. How many gay men have self-selected themselves out of considering priesthood, yet openly gay deacons such as Michael Byrne, Alex Balzanella and Christopher Butler can sail on.
It would be much more honest to declare that the teaching has changed and gay men are officially welcome in seminaries.

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Marcus Stock, the bishop of Leeds, was ordained a priest in 1988 and in his entire priesthood did just three years in a parish. The rest of the time he was a school teacher and then did a variety of desk jobs. Under Francis, someone with that sort of career should not be made a bishop.

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He only locked his Twitter account about an hour ago, probably because of his appearance on the blog.

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12.38
They are not….they have many ” Benefit in Kind…s”…….all of which will in the future be taxed thanks to their bishops and their state arrangements…

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The apparatchiks of holy mother church are having their usual difficulties today, so used are they to the fantasy world in which they live, when anyone tries to acquaint them with just plain reality.
‘Your organisation is permanently and intentionally homophobic and transphobic.’
‘No it isn’t’.
‘Your organisation has subjected children to treatment which the UN has defined as torture’.
‘But you’re not seeing all the good we do, look at Mother Theresa!’
And they accuse everyone else of being blind?

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I discovered today that academic courses in the Beda College, Rome, are validated by St Mary’s College, Twickenham and done entirely in English. What is the point of sending sems to Rome and staffing the Beda with priests at a time of clergy shortage, when they are just doing courses from England?

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1.41pm
The Beda has a particular ethos.
As their website says it is “For English-speaking men over 30 from various countries”. In practice the majority of student’s are over 40. It is a very different atmosphere where you have men who have been married and have children and grandchildren. There are 4 resident priests. All the rest of the teaching staff are from the locality made of Religious, priests and laity.
Seminary is more than courses, there is the sharing of cultures and getting a wider view of the church.
So close it down and England gets 4 priests back – but how many local Italians would lose their job (or even their home)? Certainly more than 4

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If they have children and grandchildren then why are they being separated from them by sticking them in Rome? A Roman culture may have been significant before the 1960s with the use of Latin and a Roman ‘ manner’ but that’s sixty years ago. Close it down sell the property and give it to the poor or trust fund to pay the Italian staff who must be a rare breed as the hotels and restaurants of tourist Rome are staffed by obvious non Italians.

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You forgot to mention the ex-civil partnered as well as the ex-married students. A bit of unconscious bias on your part, there?

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Francis Campbell
I ll have a new bitting at my heels now….Lol….Lol
Anybody entertained at such a variety of tables belongs to none….
As the most intelligent of Irish clergy put it about another batch : Yesterdays man….
Thats Fr. DOH

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Small world, I just saw a Facebook post congratulating Fr DOH on the silver jubilee of his ordination.

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The church militant article linked above contains the maddest thing I have ever heard, it’s a quote from Pope Benedict:
“Homosexuality is incompatible with the priestly vocation,” Benedict remarked. “Otherwise, celibacy itself would lose its meaning as a renunciation. It would be extremely dangerous if celibacy became a sort of pretext for bringing people into the priesthood who don’t want to get married anyway.”
So only those who want to get married should be celibate? That’s bonkers.
A more discerning point of view would be that if you have deep-seated heterosexual tendencies and are fiscally and psychologically capable of providing for a family, there your vocation is beckoning!

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Benedict is, typically, remarking homophobic drivel.
Celibacy here is renunciation of romantic relationship, marital romantic relationship granted, but relationship nonetheless. Which renunciation gay ordinands, too, are naturally able to make.

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Are you sure about that? The evidence of the blog over several years is that gay priests/deacons/sems find it harder to meet the freely undertaken obligations of celibacy.

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5.39, I said that they were ABLE, like heteros, to make such a renunciation to counter Benedict’s nonsense that celibacy would mean nothing to gays. Did he think they were lumps of wood, without affective drive?
I did not say they all would honour that reunciation. Many straight priests don’t either. Ask Ciaran Dallat.

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+Pat, on a not entirely unconnected note, CTS have lots of videos on their site. But there was a really good one about fatherhood by one of their main correspondents, Peter Mackin, which has disappeared. I’ve asked +Patricia about it but she’s blocked me (no idea why). Could you maybe use your contact with her to ask if it could go back up? It was really thought provoking. Thanks and God bless.

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While you’re at it, Pat, you could ask Patricia why she didn’t halt the ordination of the latest LGBT deacon.

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+Pat.
Thank you for your email. I have never heard of Cecilia McDade and the only people who are ever blocked from the Catholic Truth blog are those who refuse to accept our House Rules, which really amount to no more than an expectation of basic courtesy, or who exhibit troll-like behaviour, making it clear that they have signed up for the purpose of causing trouble, not remotely interested in serious conversation.
Similarly, not one person has ever asked me – whether by email or on our blog – about any of our videos. That includes the “blocked” brigade whose attempted contributions I can read in my “blocked” aka “idiots” file, prior to being permanently deleted. There’s been plenty of nonsense in there, but never any question about any of our videos. Not a one.
So, if he/she has a question about any of our videos, all he/she has to do is email me at editor@catholictruthscotland.com
I’ll be happy to respond to any questions, the best I can.
Thank you, again, for alerting me to this matter.

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Magoo,
I did not block this person who is making this strange claim – never heard of her, under the name used here. So, unless he/she is befuddled / confused, he/she is lying.

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So it’s activism, not journalism, and should be seen as such. I’ve never heard of ‘The Ferret’. Is it one of those woke websites and publications that never make any money, such as HuffPost and Guardian? Pink News is on the verge of bankruptcy.

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5.34, I’m sure you’ve been told, more than once, that you have a mind of your own. And it is true.

Your thoughts are your own, as well, because frankly, no one else would want them.

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So what? Are you saying that because he was previously in a same sex partnership that he cannot be a Priest now? Maybe he is celibate now. Are you homophobic?

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Edmund Adamus – an ex priest who seems to get given the push in the various dioceses he’s worked in. In 2010 he blamed abortion and gay rights for turning Britain into a “selfish, hedonistic wasteland” which has become “the geopolitical epicentre of the culture of death”.
You don’t half end up with some strange bed fellows Pat.

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Edmund Adamus was a priest of Salford diocese, where he was secretary to Bishop Kelly before leaving to get married.

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+Pat. I’m back after a short period of drying out. Went well this time I think and hope. Earlier you said that Diocese are now referring to Deacons as Rev Mr. No, that usually only applies
to Permanent Deacons who are seen as second class citizens, or as glorified altar servers amongst most clergy, so this is just pay back for not being one of the cleek. Pathetic I know. On a separate note, I read Deacon Michael’s paper today. I am very impressed, so I have sent him a short note today via the hospital to say that. Finally re the push by Bishop Keenan, Fr Campbell and
others from this Glasgow Diocese and Paisley/Motherwell who are carefully exploring that silly movement to convert gays. Do us all a favour and instead of spending Parishioner’s hard earned cash on pointless trips to the States to listen to these nut jobs, give the money to the poor. Just walk around the streets of Glasgow or any other Town or City and you will soon find them. I also agree with the earlier contributor in that Father Campbell should be dismissed from his post at Glasgow University. How can he provide pastoral care to LGBTQi students if he wants them all to be given cure therapy. He’ll be wanting to give them electric shock treatment next in his University Confessional. Followers of this blog must complain to the University to have him removed immediately. As above, he and +Keenan have turned into homophobes. Must be difficult relationships between them and the gay clergy here. They are clearly not thinking about how to bring people back to Church then. People wonder why I drink, living amongst all these eejits!

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Believe it or not…it was Francis Campbell who got Sean Brady his red hat.

Its the link between Twick in ham……the Bidet….and Francis I was referring to initially….

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There is one thing Mulvee-heel-Beeleen of which you can be utterly certain: Francis Campbell will not take you under his notice. He doesn’t do mad men.

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Navona…..apartment…..declined…..certain cleric proffered invitation …..was never mentioned again…..no …..no notice necessary at all…….the apartment belongs to The Court Of St. James……certain people did stay……( And unlike most things relating to clerics on this blog….there was nothing carnal or improper to these invitations….it was more networking and information…as they do…) Put that in whatever category you like….mad or sane don’t really apply.
The tangled web that is the clergy world…you fall foul of it…..and well the blog here tells you all….

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Did you ever rejoice in the song ” Come on Eileen..”…..twas big in Knockbridge and environs for awhile ?

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Your syntax, punctuation and structure are perfect. Never a good idea if you want to hide….Paddy Walsh was right to tell you to get the dictionary when Clogher contradicted you…and Paddy Walsh took pleasure in you being correct. My mistakes grammatical or otherwise always have a purpose…

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Comments at 4.43pm and 6.16pm Presumably the same author. People like you just love putting the boot in.
As a frequent business traveller to Germany I can tell you now that you had to live in the times. Both brothers were teenagers and like all Germans at that time they were forced to join the despicable NAZI party or be shot. What would YOU have done away back then?
My German colleagues are ashamed at what their previous generation did but accept that many were forced against their wills.

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7.55, I commented at 4.43, but not also at 6.16. So no, we are not the same person.
Since when has telling the truth been ‘putting the boot in’?
I told the truth about Benedict, and his older brother Georg: they each, in turn, joined the Nazi organisation, Hitler Youth, first Georg, and then Benedict (or Josef, as he was known then). True, they both were under duress to join, but they were never without the choice not to join. On the contrary, they joined to spare themselves reprisals by the Nazis. The fact that they had the option not to join Hitler Youth, however difficult this option might have been to exercise, meant ultimately that they, not the Nazis, made the decision to join an organisation that they knew supported Eugenics, and that had ordered the violation of sovereign national countries without any provocation whatever, killing many, including children, in the process. Both Georg and Josef were fourteen years old when they joined Hitler Youth, old enough to know and understand the insidious doctrines of National Socialism, and old enough to know that these doctrines were a grave violation of Moral Law. They are, therefore, morally culpable, not to the degree of those who joined Hitler Youth enthusiastically (as many did), but to the degree that their freedom to choose was not entirely compromised through fear.
Many Germans made a contrary example, risking their lives (some even sacrificing their lives under the guillotine) to do the right thing.
Your asking me what I would have done is both a logical fallacy, and pointless, but not just for that reason: none of us knows how we would react unless it were possible to make the hypothetical real.

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“Magna Carta” commenting anonymously at 9:39pm. It used to go with that sh1t, blaming German children for joining Hitler Youth, from the cosy and safe vantage point of hindsight in its troll cave.

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No. That’s good. I wrote to the Searetary of State for Northern Ireland saying I wanted to celebrate religious same sex marriages.

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Well they must have listened to you, because it is the Secretary of State and not Stormont bringing it in.

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Unionist Stormont is quite anti gay. That’s why the Sec of State did the consultation.

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Channel 152 SYFY HD
Great film at 10.00pm: Kill Bill Volume 1
I have not seen it before…..although a certain person raised it at a lunch time at the table in Ara Coeli when I was sitting there with a guest from foreign shores; a Father Morgan…..kindly invited to lunch that day after a guided tour of the Cathedral by a knowledgeable personage.
Lol

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