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JUNG, FREUD AND THE UNIVERSAL GOOD THAT THERAPY AND COUNSELLING ACHIEVES.

The above 1959 interview with the famous psychologist and psychiatrist is fascinating.

I firmly believe that EVERYONE would be a better, happier and more balanced person if they engaged in counselling and psychotherapy.

And  I can say this based on personal experience of having voluntarily placed myself in psychotherapy over a 5 year period in my late 30s and early 40s.

The therapist I chose was/ is from the psychological school called psychosynthesis

(  PSYCHOSYNTHESIS  is an approach to psychology that expands the boundaries of the field by identifying that a deeper center of identity, which is the postulate of the Self.

It considers each individual unique in terms of purpose in life and places value on the exploration of human potential. 

The approach combines spiritual development with psychological healing by including the life journey of an individual or his unique path to self-realization.

The integrative framework of psychosynthesis is based on Sigmund Freud’s theory of the unconscious and addresses psychological distress and intra-psychic and interpersonal conflicts. )

During the above interview Jung talks about becoming aware of his own individual consciousness at the age of 11. He describes it as coming out of a mist and stepping into clarity.

The difference between the self I was before therapy and after therapy was the same. I stepped out of a mist into the clear light of day.

It also gave me a total new freedom that I had never experienced before. After therapy I really knew what it felt like to have the freedom of a son of God.

Henry David Thoreau famously stated in Walden that “the mass of men lead lives of quiet desperation.”

If that is true, what a horrible truth it is!

But it is true, that at various times of our lives  we all have painful “issues”.

Sometimes we can resolve those issues on our own.

At other times, we need some help with our issues

The secret is to be wise enough to know when we need help and practical and courageous enough to ask for it.

As psychosynthesis combines psychological healing and spiritual development my time in therapy was also a time of spiritual growth.

I also engaged in Primal Therapy with Dr Frank Lake.

DR FRANK LAKE

Frank Lake (6 June 1914 – 10 May 1982) was one of the pioneers of pastoral counselling in the United Kingdom.

In 1962, he founded the Clinical Theology Association with the primary aim to make clergy more effective in understanding and accepting the psychological origins of their parishioners’ personal difficulties.

However, the training seminars in pastoral counselling, which he began in 1958, eventually enlisted professional and lay people in various fields from various denominations. Many thousands of people attended the seminars.

A PRAYER PLEASE

Mr Kyle McDonald

Please remember a prayer and a thought for Belfast trauma and orthopaedic surgeon Kyle McDonald (38) who passed away suddenly in his sleep the other day leaving a young wife and two babies. (Not Covid related.) RIP.

107 replies on “JUNG, FREUD AND THE UNIVERSAL GOOD THAT THERAPY AND COUNSELLING ACHIEVES.”

Pat, if we use psychotherapy of any kind we need to choose wisely. Through many personal losses and grief, I required much counselling. Fortunately I was referred to a therapist who was superb and still is. Over a number of years I have been lifted out of a dark mist and still finding my way to light. In recent times I have discovered a new dimension to my faith, prayer and spirituality as a result of being enabled to understand more clearly the dynamics of the relationship between our mental, emotional, spiritual and physical dimensions. I have learned what truly matters now in my life and I can attest to the relevancy of meaningful psychotherapy. One caveat: choose your therapist very carefully as there are many who are not able to properly empathise with their client. My therapist was a great listener, kind, caring and full of empathy. Yet, he was very professional re: boundaries but offered a whole new life for me. I believe that all priests should avail of counselling/therapy for the purpose of discovering our own real humanity and thus enabling us to better understand people’s dilemmas. The rherapy/counselling I received has helped me have a more realistic faith and a more human peayer life.

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Honesty is overrated, and sometimes inappropriate.
Would you tell a 4 year old that her mummy and daddy are lying when they tell her about Father Christmas? No?
So why do you tell her about the Devil, and eternal damnation?

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I read your comments with interest Pat very regularly.
Your blog today is fascinating, your mention of Henry David Thoreau…..he wrote an extraordinary document in 1849; Civil Disobedience. My books are boxed and stored so to read it again as I wished…I ordered it from Amazon….along with the 2018 publication by William E. Scheuerman of the same title……I wished to read them again in the light of what is now happening in the world….particularly in the USA. But they both have an application aligned closely with what you assert is the purpose of your Blog.
In these two works is the antithesis of how the RCC is governed and organised. Thoreau applied himself to church and religion in his twenty seven pages. ( The copy I recently purchased was printed in Poland; The irony!).
The RCC all over the world colonise the minds of children from a very early age ( China use RCC tactics to now extend their Empire), thats why in Ireland the CEO’s will never relinquish the schools ; The RCC would not have the wealth or the inclination to undo the harm they inflict if everyone engaged in the processes you present today. The RCC instil/instilled guilt for a very particular purpose; so they can/could “forgive” it…..the keys !!!
For many years, in discussion with a small number of clergy there was the general opinion in the conversation that we who were discussing were culpable ; we were propping up what we were so negative towards;
Thoreau in Civil Disobedience ;” If you really wish to do anything, resign your office. When the subject has refused allegiance, and the officer has resigned from office, then the revolution is accomplished.”
The turgid style has purpose…….

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I too, as an emigrant to London in the mid 1960s, read Henry David Thoreau, having come to his essays via W B Yeats’ ‘Lake Isle of Innisfree’. Yeats claimed his inspiration was Thoreau’s ‘Walden’ as well as nostalgia for his native Sligo. Thoreau bought an Irish railway worker’s old cabin by a pond called Walden in a wooded New England glade and devoted himself to observing nature and reading Plato and Sophocles – though I was later a bit disappointed to discover that it was located at the bottom of his friend Emerson’s garden, and not in any wilderness. His writing was very refreshing that I then went on to read his ‘Essay on Civil Disobedience’, and this became for me an alternative to the murderous violence of Irish ‘physical force patriotism, and the endless eulogies by both state and church for 1916 at what was then its Fiftieth Anniversary; the murderous ‘border campaign’, and the huge Catholic send off given to ideologues like Sean South. Neither cleric or patriot, ever mentioned that they were transgressing the teaching of the wandering Galilean whose Sermon on the Mount said: ‘Turn the other cheek’; while here was Thoreau offering an alternative with no triumphalist religious implications to provoke the other side.

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the HOLY GOD is ANGRY at you the HOLY SPOSTLE Paul is saying we must obey the powers tha be or the HOLY GOD will damn the siobeying ones read it in the BIBLE

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4.36, it’s impractical. Counsellors are legally obligated to report to police information divulged to them in therapy which may indicate a criminal offence.

Saying that honesty is essential is like saying we must always tell the truth. In a utopian world, yes. But in the real world?

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5.01, 3.56 means honesty by the counsellor as to principle. Some people of course like to pay a counsellor that is going to lead them up the garden path, but . . .

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Cardinal Suenens was marvellous on obedience…he began with the etymology of the word….from the Latin ‘to listen well’……….thats simply what obedience is……to listen well.
He then went on to say that for obedience to be exercised well; authority must be exercised well.

There is not a diocese I am aware of where obedience can be exercised well…..Henry David Thoreau and Cardinal Suenens are available for Diocesan Retreats !!! Lol Lol

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Patsy you’re being a Bold boy again disobedience to your Superiors and to The Holy Church is not a good thing, breaking your vow’s is not either, all freethinkers are the same everybody’s wrong except them. They become little Hitlers and megalomaniac’s themselves, disobedience is not a virtue and certainly not heroic.

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My primary obedience is to Christ and His Gospel. Period.

The RCC and many of its head honchos are evil.

We cannot obey evil.

I never took a VOW.

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By Post Author

Meanwhile the Church in Suenens’s Belgium has collapsed and we end up with perves such as Daaneels orchestrating the election of cover-up Francis.

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5:01 pm
It’s about self-honesty as well as honesty with a therapist, otherwise it’s a waste of time, money and energy with minimal therapeutic benefits. Some people do value honesty, integrity, and authenticity, even in the real world.

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Diarmuid Martin, His Disgrace of Dublin always, for years and years and years, generally flies Lufthansa …..there is a reason. Flights, their frequency and their pattern tell a lot about a man.
When Ledwith quit Maynooth, his first cousin now Bishop of Kilkenny, went into Micheals rooms and cleared all the flight coupons….all the many many many coupons. ( I blogged that in 2018 as well)
I doubt DM of Dublin keeps his( coupons that is !)….but the trail is now computerised……

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I’m amazed at your ignorance. Secular priests like me take a simple promises.

Religious order priests take solemn vows.

One has the moral obligation to disobey I structions that one considers immoral or against ones conscience.

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12.27, but how many priests honor that obligation? There is theory and there’s practice, and where the honoring of that obligation is concerned, there is considerable moral cowardice and dishonor.

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10:47 am

Hello Bella, what do you think of Uncle Ted, a former Cardinal of The Holy Church, sharing his bed with seminarians? An act of charity or what?

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Hello Polly it certainly was a disgusting act and Thanks be to God he is paying for it now, you knew what I would think before you asked. A much worse punishment awaits him at the Judgement Seat which at his age won’t be long. I think it is justice he will receive not charity.
Evivva Maria!

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the HOLY PRIEST Mccrick was only bei G good when he seeped with them one’s because they maybe was afraid of the dark

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Tuam and Armagh have much in common.

Cashel and Dublin have a lot more in common with one another. That yoke in Cashel ( Mullaneys Bishop ) gets away with a very quiet time….then the SMA s are a tight lot…tight lipped. There is a song for the singing…..and that reinvented SMA who spoke to Armagh clergy a few years ago now would be a good one to sing it….

Maybe he was bringing the paintings to the Canaries…..

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O’Reilly of Cashel never puts his head above the parapet. Is he what we Irish call a Cute Hoor?

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1:00pm
Bella, what about the many priests and bishops he ordained for all the wrongs reasons?
Why was he promoted by the Vatican when it was an open secret he was abusing?

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I’m afraid I can’t answer any of your questions because I don’t know. I had never even heard of him until all his evil abuse became public. If as you say that it was an open secret in the Vatican then those responsible for promoting him despite having knowledge of this. They too will have to pay the price, Almighty God will deal with them.

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What is this Polly Question Time? Unfortunately Our Holy Mother The Church has been infiltrated by the disciples of Satin. But we must have hope, we have the words of Our Divine Lord that “the gates of hell will not prevail” all will be well. I know this will be a disappointment to you, but too bad.
Evivva Maria!

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4.46, Bella, unholy mother church hasn’t been infiltrated by the disciples of ‘Satin’: unholy mother church herself is the disciple of ‘Satin’.

Jesus did not bequeath us a priesthood; he made no provisos for ‘do this in memory of me’.

Every one of his disciples was to break bread, as Jesus did, because his command that night was a call to individual and personal involvement in his imminent self-sacrifice; it was not a summons to form a priesthood in which privileged men alone could be the only ones to ‘do this in memory of me’.

Jesus’ passion, death, and resurrectioned obviate priesthood; made it obsolete, redundant.

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At least Kieran O’’R has the distinction of having been elected by his peers – unlike most of Ireland’s bishops who are appointed from ‘above.’

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5:19pm

Ah! poor Polly God bless the mark, the gargle has ya langered altogether. Thank God and His Holy Mother you were ousted from the seminary as unworthy to go forward to The Sacred Priesthood. I know that’s what made you into the poor bitter crater you’ve become spouting all that heresy. You can still be saved you have time, make a good confession and return to the bosom of The Holy Church where I know deep down you long to be. I’ll help you as much as I can. I’ll start a Novena to Our Lady of The Miraculous Medal for you, you sorely need it.
Evivva Maria!

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I think the crucial difference between going to confession and undergoing therapy is that the first offers the illusion of a quick fix – the slate is instantly wiped clean. This abrogation of responsibility was apparent in clerical abusers who would absolve each other and continue to offend. Sure, there are some bogus therapies but the key is absolute honesty.

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Secular counselling can be very helpful, spiritual direction can be very damaging as there’s always an agenda and as for St Luke’s! I can’t wait to see the day it gets shut down it perpetuates disfunction and duplicity for even before seminary starts, the nun there cannot have any qualifications and she starts off with your prayer life and then launches into playing with yourself and how many times ? The forms to fill in are deliberately repetitive to catch you out – what kind of organisation thinks this is a good thing? Has it really prevented potential perverts going into the priesthood ? The answer is obvious

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Pat

what are your thoughts on Fr. Taylor flying to the canaries for week and then returning back to Mass without self isolation? What does Billy think?

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Diarmuid Martin flies with Lufthansa because it has a first class section. Also, where did he get the money to buy his apartment in Rome? His particular friendship with Bishop Paul Tighe is also questionable, to say the least!

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I’m told he has an apartment near the Colosseum?

I’ve never heard anyone question his friendship with Tighe?

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That’s because they are not in the “know” like I am, my dearest Bishop Pat Buckley 🙂

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10.52: His money affairs are entirely Diarmuid Martin’s alone. MYOB.. There is nothing wrong, peculiar or sinister about his friendship with Paul Tighe. You are a scummy trouble maker, gossip and bitch! Were you demoted by Diarmuid?

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Coddle Martin, unlike the dish whose name he bears, is devoid of all warmth. He has you fooled though Buckley because he threw you a few bones. He was afraid of what you might write about him. Little man-yeen Mulvihill though didn’t hold back.

Behind the facade, Coddle despises you and he regards most priests with indifference if not outright contempt.

The sooner he goes the better and heaven preserve us from Paul Tighe – another soulless, careerist functionary. Dublin is a mess and clerical morale is six feet under.

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Diarmuid has no time for priests. He is a pure careerist whose ambitions lay elsewhere,. Dublin was never something he wanted – he said so so many times. He feigns warmth while with someone but behind the smile is a cold calculating heart interested only in himself. He’s leaving Dublin in a mess. He has surrounded himself with spineless men incapable of speaking up to him – the sooner he goes the better.
Tighe in Rome is too much in the mould of his patron he should stay there. He is devoid of personality and has no pastoral qualities. He would be the kiss of death for Dublin.

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DIARMUID MARTIN

There seems to be a lot of anger and resentment, especially among Dublin priests
towards Diarmuid Martin?

Sad for a bishop to leave such a load of resentment behind 🙃

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11.46: In fairness to Archbishop Diarmuid, he had an enormous responsibility to respond to the Diocesan Clerical abuse scandals which consumed much of his time and energy. He was a stranger in the Diocese but immediately set his mind to being pro-active on Child Safeguarding Policies and ensuring a robust system for all parishes. He supported initiatives in other areas but he never concentrated on the welfare of priests. This failure created a disillusionment and low morale among clergy. It is not forgotten. During the lockdown, we had zero care for our well being, young, middle age or older. None. The AB surrounded himself with yes men who were scared to challenge his approach. While successful in some important areas, Diarmuid failed in caring for his priests. There are many presbyteral problem re: emotional, spiritual and mental health but since we do not have a dedicated team of professional therapists/counsellors, we literally have no supportive agency of any kind. This has created much cynicism, bleakness and unhappiness in the Diicese. Changes are made without proper consultation and a bureaucracy has being built up that is now unsustainable, requiring the cutting off of essential pastoral services and personnel. Disaster.

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DM never stopped anything. He became aware of problems and he moved his students to Rome – one of whom was a prime mover in – and principal orchestrator of – the “strange goings on”.

Diarmuid Martin could have raised merry hell and acted decisively to end the scandal of Gaynooth but instead he effectively whistled and looked the other way.

He could have insisted that the entire “formation” system in Maynooth be dismantled and Fanny and the whole rotten crew be sent packing – but he did feck all.

A “formation” director prying into students wet dreams, masturbating and erections, a gay “meat market” scandal and more – all screamed massive dysfunction and systemic problems.

DM wrung his hands in the media and generated much hot air with his faux outrage. The corrupt (de)formation system of Gaynooth – and the heresy spouting excuse for a president? All still in situ.

Dublin diocese and every other Irish diocese have no vocations. Says it all.

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7.32
A confused mixture of unproven nonsense. DM’s decision to move students from Maynooth to Rome had nothing whatsoever to do with a minor incident there which hit the headlines and was blown out of proportion.
You’d be laughed out of court.

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I like Jung and Freud, I never studied psychology in that great a detail but these two guys certainly shine when it comes to our present understandings and approach in the fields of academic and therapeutic psychology and psychotherapy. They laid some very sound, solid and reliable ground stones which are just as vital today as they were in their day.
Of course modern medications i.e. Selective Seretonin Reuptake Inhibitors (including the older TriCyclic Antidepressants TCAs) and others are, I think I remember reading in a psychotherapy journel, “Often handed out as a first-line approach in helping people in their hurts and pains of the mind [I prefer these terms over mental illness or disorders, especially within pastoral capacities with a student or one of my old ladies], also, often counselling through a GP can take sometime to arrange. Then there are Church based counselling options, like the St Luke’s Centre in Manchester, their staff are BACP registered and are required to adhere to external strict nstiinal guidelines.
I am not medically trained nor am I a psychotherapist so I would never interfer with a person’s prescribed course of medication or any other therapies, and I would most certainly not deny them vital services or support which they are legally entitled to.
However I would be an encouraging and accompanying factor in their healing process in respect of both spiritual and corporal needs. Try to nsure they are eating well, and, and only if they follow a faith, encourage their spiritual/scriptural habits and prayer life.
I would very carefully, and proportionally, encourage excersise and little walks. However if they were at a point where they were having trouble getting out of bed some days, I would suggest setting little tasks for certain days of the week, like a set day to do the laundry; maybe one day to meet a trained counsellor or at the very least a friend [from church or whoever really] or family member. Even a regular day for watering plants or collecting leaves in the garden — nature can for some be ‘God’s own medicine.’
If days feel pretty blue, then start with little things, then slowly progress from there.
Finally, (and this may possibly let the cat out of the bag with regards to who is writing this): think about taking in a pet, a cat or a little dog. I have two cats, one called Poppy and one called Pip.
– Pip the talking cat featured in a YouTube video not so long ago — Pip became a YouTube sensation overnight! She really did lol.
People left comments like, “We want to see more of Pip the talking cat,” and Pip is only happy to oblige lol.
But unfortunately, Pip is currently subject to a Gagging Order by the wicked and heartless Cruella de vil of the Liverpool Catworld. For now.
The sooner Pip the talking cat has her Gagging Order lifted — the sooner Pip the talking cat will be back! And she has a few funny sketches to brighten up our day. That I can honestly say.
——-
Incidentally, Freud did write a little on humour; he discussed humour within three areas or categories, these being: Jokes, Comedy and Mimicking.
If Freud said it’s good, then I ain’t gonna argue with him. X

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For St Luke’s I was interviewed by the Vocations Director on my sexuality, then 3 forms , then an overnight visit including on the first day an interview which was in two sessions then two computer tests, on the next day was a third interview. After that I withdrew my consent there were comments made to me that weren’t neutral or professional including faces being pulled , clearly if that was the system of the Church in the present day then I really didn’t want to be part of it and I can only wish good luck to those who do. I found out later that everyone else lies or is coached by their Vocations Director !!

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I see. I assume you were given the questionnaires to fill out prior to going to St Lukes, as is standard. I happen to have a copy of these questionaries. Could you describe them, including what image appears on the front cover, and how many questionaries there are.

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The horrible fact that some men are seeking admission to seminary in the full knowledge of grave institutional abuse is in itself a sign that they are not seeking to serve Christ, but self.

No one with any integrity, with even a semblance of moral conscience, would seek admission to an institution so egregiously corrupt, self-serving, and pathologically untruthful.

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So you are calling the guy at 4.00 a liar?

Why would he respond to someone like you?

Perhaps you resented the tenor of his post: that a corrupt institution is employing corrupt methods to admit self-seeking (corrupt) men to seminary.

Was that your motive?😕

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nope. as the person who revealed the Maynooth scandal to Pat I see it an important to speak the truth. facts and evidence are important.

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RC’s comment only confirms the disorder of the Church today , it’s as if anyone who makes even a mild criticism based on their own experience must be given the third degree because it can’t possibly be that the system is at fault. I will answer the question, there were several forms which I think had a logo on the front, it was several years ago so that detail isn’t clear in my memory. I don’t regret not continuing with the process, I could see that the diocese I had applied for was full of contradictions and I would not have fitted in and I wasn’t so desperate to be a priest that I would say or do anything and leave my personal integrity behind. The spiritual direction I had received beforehand was also questionable and the priest later had his private problems brought out into the public forum. Mine is a personal subjective experience of course and it may be different for others.

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Absolutely correct: of course people lie through their tests. I have known now notoriously homosexual candidates who swore they were straight, and I wouldn’t be at all surprised to learn that they had been coached either by their aptly named VD or a clerical “uncle”.

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Lightbulb idea 💡 why don’t we get vocations training for VDs and vocations training for the bishops whose job it is to pick the VDs . . .
And vocations training for those whose job it is to choose a seminary and vocations training for seminary trustees and vocations training for seminary faculty . . .
An idea . . . nothing “flashy” . . .

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No I didn’t complete the process for selection, the closer I got to the priesthood the more obvious the problems for anyone who didn’t share the same outlook, it’s not for everyone.

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Anyone have this problem. Watching mass on the oratory webcam and its cut off at the gospel so I refreshed and it came on. it has done this before. is this because Pat is stationary and the camera is not picking up moment so it goes off?

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Isounds like bandwidth issue has caused the link to drop. Are there personal mobiles other personal devices connected to the same WiFi router?!
I’m having similar issues with my device over here.

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7.57: Very fanciful conclusions. I did my assessment thriugh 2 psychologists.. I certainly found no way to cheat or lie at my assessment which I thought was very fair and carefully carried out. Not one of the 15 who began seminary with be in the 70’s was ever charged with any wrongdoing, abuse or misconduct of any kind. Two left before ordination and two left priesthood. Three died: the rest of us are still standing!! Some of us were a little crazily odd but nothing of concern or that necessitated drastic decisions.Thank God. If a liar is clever, yes, it may be possible to fake your way but the suggestion that a Vocations Director or and uncle priest might mentor or coach a prospective candidate to lie is totally absurd, as are you, sir – you moron.

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It’s clearly touch a nerve for you, your assessment in the 1970s would have been very different from the present day both in its form and the type of men going forward which is demonstrated on this blog.Why is a different experience or opinion moronic? It’s just different, so much for dialogue and listening !

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Pat during your offering of the Holy Mass do you pray for Maynooth Survivors. Pray Jesus heal them. The memories of the Pit and the Court under Pugin Hall are lasting nightmares for so many.

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