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OBEDIENCE AS AN EVIL

PATS HOMILY 2ND AUGUST 2020

When the Nazi leaders appeared at Nuremberg after the Nazi atrocities of World War 11 one of the major defences offered was that they were obeying orders.

That defence was not accepted – and rightly so.

Because, there are times when obedience is criminal and immoral.

So, these obedient agents of Hitler were sentenced to death or very long prison sentences.

Many totalitarian systems throughout history have insisted on the total obedience of their followers. And much evil has come from that obedience.

The Roman Catholic Church is a 1700 year old totalitarian system that has insisted on total obedience and much evil has resulted – The Crusades, the Inquisition and the Counter Reformation, to name three.

Hitler killed 6 million plus in 6 years.

I wonder how many millions have been killed in Roman Catholicism in 2000 years? And all in the name of obedience!

In 1943 in the Poor Clare Orphanage in Cavan a fire broke out during the might.

The nuns refused to allow the fire fighters to rescue the girls in case they saw them in their night attire.

35 children and 1 adult burned to death as a result of the nuns crazy obedience to Catholic teaching on modesty and chastity.

The Irish author Flan O’Brien wrote a verse about the tragedy:

In Cavan there was a great fire.

Judge McCarthy was sent to inquire.

It would be a shame,

If the nuns were to blame.

So it had to be caused by a fire.

The Four Cardinal Virtues are – Prudence, Justice, Fortitude and Temperance.

The Seven Virtues are – Chastity, Temperance, Charity, Diligence, Patience, Kindness and Humility.

So there are at least ELEVEN virtues mentioned in Christian history before you get anywhere near obedience. So, obedience, is not WAY UP THERE as a virtue at all.

The classic study of obedience was made by Stanley Milgram of Yale university between 1961 and 1963.

He was trying to understand and explain the German’s obedience to Hitler.

They measured the willingness of volunteers to perform acts against their conscience by inflicting painful electric shocks on people – the strongest of which would have caused death.

The vast majority of the volunteers obeyed the orders.

As humans, but especially as Christian’s we need to carefully consider where we stand on obedience.

In Acts 5:29 we are told: “Obedience to God comes before obedience to men”.

And that I instruction is backed up in the Bible in the books of Ephesians, Samuel, Deuteronomy, Ezekiel, James, Genesis, and many others.

So we should view every order we are given, and every decision we make, in the context of our primary obligation to Hod and God’s will.

In the Book of Daniel we see King Nebuchadnezzar ordering Shadrac, Meschac and Abednego to worship him instead of God.

They refused and are thrown into a great fire. But the King sees God walking in the fire with the three and immediately pulls them out of the fire and promotes them to high office.

The moral of the story is:

Obey God and thrive.

Obey voices opposed to God and perish!

One of my all time political heroes is Tony Benn. His favourite hymn was Dare to be a Daniel.

Dare to be a Daniel
Dare to stand alone
Dare to have a purpose firm
Dare to make it known

Standing by a purpose true
Heeding God’s command
Honor them, the faithful few
All hail to Daniel’s band

Many mighty men are lost

Daring not to stand
Who for God had been a host
By joining Daniel’s bandD

Many giants, great and tall

Stalking through the land
Headlong to the earth would fall
If met by Daniel’s bandD

Hold the Gospel banner high
On to vict’ry grand
Satan and his hosts defy
And shout for Daniel’s band

Dare to be a Daniel
Dare to stand alone
Dare to have a purpose firm
Dare to make it known
Dare to make it known

My Friends

Obey men with caution!

Obey men at your peril!

I love The bishopbuckleyspodcast | Aug 2, 2020 13:38 OBEDIENCE AS AN WVIL, let’s play it!
https://www.podbean.com/ea/pb-43wdf-e5596c

103 replies on “OBEDIENCE AS AN EVIL”

The Romanists insisted upon absolute, unquestioning obedience to the will of a hierarchy of men, as if dissension from their word meant disobedience to Jesus. Under this vile socio-religious hierarchy, the Romanists committed some of the most revolting moral transgressions in human history.
The Romanists destroyed the pivotal role in human morality played by innate human conscience by insisting on obedience to its arbitrary whim. Which is why there can be no such thing as a morally good priest.
History confirms this sad fact.

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10 48: The same abusive, twisted version of history from a vile, poisonous person. Who gave you permission to spout your hatred?

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You said you wanted me to address important spiritual issues on the blog?
And when I do – you still complain and name call.
Piss off 😎

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This topic cuts to the heart of abuse cover up in the Church so no surprises in criticizing
the messenger. Being housed, fed and watered,etc took precedence plus loyalty to the company’s bosses.

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I dont know. But none of them are truly Christian or have a great Christian bishop. They are all local branches of RCC (very) Limited.

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Easier said than done Pat, look at what happened to you, look at what they tried to do to Maurice McCabe. What happened to Cahal Daly or Martin Callinan? Absolutely nothing. That’s life in Ireland.

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I agree. But Maurice McCabe can face God with confidence. Daly has had eternal justice and Callinan is facing it.

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8:49am
I don’t know about Maurice McCabe, but I’m sure Cardinal Daly has received his reward as a good and faithful servant because of the trials and disobedience he had to put up with here.

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Trusting Holy Spirit in the next man, over whose conscience you don’t have rights to trample, is like the famed Shackleton aircraft of old, “30,000 rivets flying in formation”. If PF and other bigwigs want to do Rome, please may they do Rome’s BETTER principles and not its WORSE ones. That way, Rome will have more genuine friends and fewer accomplices.
P.S, Pat, your list is even a pre-Catholic one, it is Nicomachean! Rome has seemed (of late) to want to turn the clock back 2,400 years.

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A great sermon Bishop Pat. You were the best preacher Larne ever had. People like myself used to find out on a Saturday which church you were in and which Mass you were saying and follow you. I still recall your sermon on Larne’s Biggest Sin. Daly & Co deprived us of the best priest we ever had. If I was still at home I would be with you every Sunday.

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Thank you. If you are ever home on holiday call in and I’ll make you a cuppa and we can have a chat. My door is always open and the kettle on the boil.

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God be with the days of sermons with substance. These days we are subjected to effeminate little homilies from campers who regard themselves as scripture scholars. I once heard you preach at the Clonard Novena and it was powerful.

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The standard of preaching in Ireland is generally woeful, especially by priests who went through Maynooth, where for far too many decades that old camper Ronan Drury taught homilitics.

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Drury wasn’t that bad – it wasn’t called scared eloquence for nothing. In all honesty what could one man have done with one hour per week and often with 60+ in class, at least in my day there in the mid to late 1980s?

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Our parish priest Fr. Gregory O Brien is a wonderful preacher. We are lucky to have him, the priest before him had us all confused, well at least he had me confused. I pray for priests every day, that they will be holy people.

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Isn’t obedience an essential part of Christianity? Is there any corporate version of Christianity without obedience and fidelity?

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Those poor girls in Cavan were handed over to the Poor Clares without anybody knowing anything about what went on inside that prison. No nun harmed in the 1943 fire yet 35 girls died: the nuns were guilty of manslaughter and much else, yet were exculpated.

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Perhaps it’s an appropriate time to recall what John Hume’s father said when John left Maynooth. He had entered in 1954. When he told the Maynooth authorities of his decision to leave, they tried to change his mind.
Quoting Barry White’s biography: “He had found the reality of the priesthood too different from the vision, which in Hume’s case was wrapped up with service to one’s fellow man”
Does that ring true people?
And his father’s sentiment, as expressed in White’s book certainly holds true”
“It takes a good man to enter the priesthood ‐- and an even better one to leave it”
MMM

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RIP John Hume, a truly good man.
Thanks for that info, MMM. Hadn’t known any of it.
Shall screenshoot your comment.

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John Hume saw the reality of RC priesthood in maintaining a facade of the RCC as representing truth and justice. Even at that early stage of his distinguished life hr had the wisdom and integrity to get out of it.
All you narrow minded self justifying critics of “rejected seminarians” consider the words of John Hume’s wise father, …..and shut up for once and all.

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That’s been the common Christian myth. I think the reality is a little more complex and the motivations of those fighting on the Christian side less clear. The Crusades were certainly a tragedy for all those involved and we are still suffering the aftermath many centuries later.

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10.40
By Gospel standard, they were a grave abandonment of the command to love of enemy.
As for Christians’ travelling to Jerusalem, this was on foot (Ack! No pun.😅) of the institutional penitential practice of pilgrimmage, something totally unnecessary for God’s forgiveness.

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10.15, historically, the vast (and I do mean ‘vast’) majority of those, especially in medieval times, who underwent pilgrimmage did so to atone for personal sin. You may not like the fact, but it remains a fact.

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5.41
Quite a one-sided and inadequate view of pilgrimage.
In one sense there was always going to be trouble when the foundation of Christianity too place in a land essentially Jewish and subsequently conquered by Muslims.

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I can remember Father Buckley preaching at the men’s confraternity Masses in Clonard Monastery. In those days the church was full and you could hear a pin drop.

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At the beginning of every week I ask God to help me choose a topic for Sunday. I reflect all week on things and compose on Saturday.

Who says I have to preach on the Sunday scriptures?

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I’m glad you don’t stick to the readings. That’s a new thing, after the greatest Council ever, and it means that preaching is deathly dull because priests just rehash the readings people have just heard, using slightly different words. It’s moronic to do that and treats people like imbeciles.

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12.20: Since you don’t belong to the Catholic Church, you can do what you l8ke but din’t preach hatred. I read the TRUE WORD OF GOD on a Monday and reflect on it, which is what a homily is about: not about you, Pat, but GOD’S WORD. And are you telling us that God told you to forget the designated scriptures and preach the rant you preached? More crappy delusions…get a grip.. ..

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I’m sorry to disabuse you but your “mother” has always been nocturnal “lady” who has always opened her legs to the highest bidder 😉

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12:46pm
The gripper! He’s back!
Why was the Word of God ignored through covering-up of abuse of ‘little ones’ ?

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12.41: You obviously do not understand the object of a homily. While not every priest is a good preached, we cannot use a homily moment to push our own agenda or personal hatreds. Usually the readings for a Sunday will give us some opportunity to say something worthwhe. This require a spending time with the Word of God in prayer…inspiration will come when we persevere and trust in God’s Holy Spirit. That aside, we have lost a great prophet and peace maker on the death of John Hume. God bless his good soul.

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Right throughout my sermon yesterday I referred to the Word of God in the context of obedience as a sin.

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1.39: You just don’t get it Pat. You should familiarise yourself with the CATHOLIC CHURCH’S Word of God for Sundays.

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I know perfectly well what a homily is. I studied homiletics as part of my BD. Telling me again what I heard myself in the readings is the height of laziness and it does not even work, when you see that the captive audience grows smaller every year as the old people die off and are not replaced in the pews.

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When I sit down to prepare my sermon I ask God “Lord, what message do you wish me to give to your people this Sunday”.

We should preach Gods message and not ours.

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3.09: That is a very lazy, in thought out comment. You have a BD!!! So have I along with other degrees but your comment suggests that the Word of God is irrelevant. You are suppose to make the READINGS – THE WORD OF GOD both relevant and meaningful. I’d questiin your intelligence with so dismissive an attitude to The Readings of Mass. And if you think that so called “bad preaching” is respinsible for dwindling congregations, you are not very clever. The problem is much more multi faceted and complex. The homily is not a platform for telling your life story.

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5:05 pm
Why did Holy Mother Church and her Bishops cover up the evil of child sex abuse committed by Priests as well as some Bishops? Was Holy Mother Church a good Mother
to those abused?

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If the religious orders’ commitment to poverty and chastity is anything to go by, there is no much obedience about.

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Why do priests get so agitated, so hissy-fitted, when the history of the Roman Catholic Church is fairly scrutinised?

Let’s face facts: for the most part, the Church’s history is hardly sparkling in moral terms; on the contrary, it’s a parable on the consequence of wilful abandonment of God and of utter self-reliance, in particular by its clergy.

The Old Testament repeatedly warns of such consequence, from the story of Adam and Eve, through the Flood to the… Oh, go on! Get yourselves an education by reading it; it’s all there in God’s steady hand, so to speak.

Now if these facts weren’t, well, facts, wouldn’t all the ‘good’ priests (and we are assured they are many) simply ignore any criticism of the Church as demonstrable nonsense?

The first comment today elicited the usual, touchy reaction from priests, and the psychology of it is more than intriguing. Could it be that this sample of undoubtedly ‘good’ men, but with decidedly raw nerves, know the comment on the Church’s history is a hole in one, along with its consequence for priesthood?

That no TRULY good man, especially today, would allow himself to be ordained priest and to commit himself to an institution with such a known and outstanding history of moral perverseness (and, indeed, gross moral perversion) through a promise or vow of obedience.

Ack! It’s just a thought, like. 😀

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5:16 pm
Is covering up abuse and crime by Priests and Bishops in obedience to orders of leaders in Holy Mother Church, evil ?

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You’ve really rattled some cages today, Bishop.
I understand the principle of preaching on the gospel of the day to have come out of the liturgical movement and to be well intentioned but can’t fault the analysis of the current state of preaching.

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I can’t get out of my head the horrible deaths those frightened young girls must have suffered in that fire.

Imagine today firemen, or any other of the emergency services, taking orders from a gaggle of Roman Catholic nuns? It was disgraceful! Those evil bastards, the product of an evil church, should have been charged with murder.

I suppose the institutional Romanist Church hasn’t even acknowledged the terrible betrayal of those poor young girls. My blood boils when I think of any representative of that filthy, Christ-betraying church.

Thank God for the Unionists of Ulster in saving Catholics from being dominated so savagely by a satanic institution like the RCC.

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Yes, And I think God Ivhad my dispute with Cackle Daly in broad day light in the North with 1 million Protestants watching.

Were I in the South I’d have been torn asunder by all those RC guards, lawyers, judges etc.

I would only want a united Ireland when Rome is a far off memory down there

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Why should you preach only on the readings? We are not some sort of Gospel Hall, Bible-only sect. Read Dei Verbum.

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5.54

‘Heretic’ from the Greek verb ‘hairéomai’, meaning ‘to choose’.

The history of Roman Catholicism is one of denying Christians the freedom to choose to follow personal conscience, very often under the coercion sanction of cruel torture and death.

I’d rather, much rather, die a heretic than a slave of a historically evil institution, the Roman Catholic Church.

God bless all heretics.

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Welcome back Magna. Just watch your language and be good that all I would say here.
Conscience is very important cos when it comes to rights and wrongs.
I recall CBS saying dont tell re abuses and if you do, I find out myself. When I saw abuse as wrong as I reported straight to my deceased parents after told teachers and other CBS failed. That CBS superior wasn’t happy with me as he showed me his scowl and haughty, disgruntled disdain face towards me. Little did I know until 30 years that he was listening to next bedroom re abuses going on by other CBS. He knew it all along and said to my parents that I’m lying or made it up.
What was interesting about Hitler and Stalin both ex catholics who became evil. How did that happen?? Was someone a Catholic did evil thing to them when young age, then later in the process they became evil? I know from experience in deaf school re one nun from Tyrone, who was evil in some way as she affected a lot of deaf boys over 15 years of her tenure as Abbess nun superior . One of the boys joined ira and ended up in prison. That had me thinking what if its true re Catholic turn to evil easily re Hitler and Stalin. Stalin was an ex seminarian as he needed education cos Russia was poor that time. Best way that time to get education via religion.
Don’t think Catholic obedience is for the laity, more so for the religious people who were bound by Canon law.

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Stalin wasn’t Catholic he was Russian Orthodox and his training as a seminarian was similar to the junior or minor seminary education

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I’d love to hear / see a sermon by Littleprick on Obedience to Holy Mother the Church. Can you imagine it ! Oh, surely Littletwat has as YouTube video on that subject already ? Now, I mustn’t get too excited…!

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Has anyone else noticed the damning silence of Romanist priests and religious over the terrible deaths those poor girls (of whom the youngest was around 9 years of age) suffered at that vile orphanage, run by a cabal of women who would have claimed to be following in the footsteps of St Clare, companion in God of St Francis of Asissi?

Spineless, moral cowards!😕

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8:54 pm

Indeed. I noticed.

The tactic of rabbiting on about the gospel of the day was used to distract from the content of the sermon. Hearing the Word of God and keeping it is whats most important.

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8 54: This horrible tragedy has been discussed before Magna (???) and elsewhere. Of course we are appalled but what does your faux outrage achieve? Nothing, but gives you yet another opportunity to spout your hatred. For that is as much as you ever do to give yourself some relevance. You are pathetic, even more so as you try to hide behind anonymous. You are still a nasty, horrible, hate inciting piece of crap. Incidentally, why would any priest bother with you, the rejected, dysfunctional looper from Maynooth. God blesses the many good priests despite your hatred. Fortunately, thousands of people were spared your abuse when you were not allowed to be ordained. 😣😣😣😣😣😣😣 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣😁😁😁😁😁.

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Bella, was once again, unable to answer for abuse corruption cover up and crime in the Holy Mother Church. 😜😎💋

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