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KNOCK – APPARITION OR SLIDE SHOW?

Posted by Ciaran Walsh on August 22, 2018 http://www.curator.ie

 
A man of Vision: Fr Bartholomew Cavanagh ( 1821-1897), Parish Priest of Knock and Aughamore in 1879.

This is man who may have engineered an apparition using a magic lantern. The site of the “apparition” is visible in the background. Photo: Knock Shrine.
 
The latest post on the curator.ie blog examines new evidence supporting the claim that the apparition said to have occurred in Knock in 1879 was in fact a slide show engineered by the parish priest (pictured above).

It  builds on research into the Dublin Anthropometric Laboratory, drawing on an investigation of the role played by James Hack Tuke in the organisation of a survey of fishing Grounds in the West of Ireland in 1890. This survey laid the foundation for the programme of ethnographic fieldwork undertaken by the Laboratory in one of Tuke’s main areas of operation, Mayo and Connemara.
 
Sketch showing distribution of relief tickets in the turf market in Westport. From Illustrated London News, March 6th, 1880. Source Mayo Library.

 
Tuke visited Knock in 1880, 6 months after the apparition occurred and 6 weeks or so after the first report was published in the press. Tuke claimed that the “apparition” involved the use of a lantern projector to “depict” the Blessed Virgin as in a “vision.”

This connected with a conversation I had some time ago with Stan Mason, grandson of Thomas Mason, the man who recalled providing the parish priest in Knock with a lantern projector around the time of the apparition.

It seemed obvious to me that Knock was more slide show than apparition.

The announcement that the Pope was going to Knock as part of his visit to Ireland (2018) prompted a review of the literature on the apparition of 1879.

The findings are posted on Ballymaclinton, which is sort of appropriate given that the blog was inspired by a fictional village that was created as a showcase for the “Real” Irish during the Franco-Brititish exhibition in London in 1908.

The most surprising finding is that church authorities were sceptical of reports of an apparition and commissioned Francis Lennon, Professor of Mathematics and Natural Law in Maynooth, to investigate the possibility that a lantern projector was used.

He concluded that the “apparition”was created using some form of optical device but he was overruled.

John MacHale, Archbishop of Tuam, decided that the witness statements were trustworthy and set about establishing Knock as a site of Marian apparition and pilgrimage.

The story was published in the Tuam News in January 1880.
 
A lantern projector in action. Source: Martyn Jolly.

 
So, the question has to be asked: If the apparition was a slide show, as the evidence suggests, why is Pope Francis visiting Knock?

Maybe it is a case of history repeating itself and maybe it is a case of the optics of pilgrimage. For more go to Ballymaclinton.
 
 
Ciarán Walsh

https://ballymaclinton.wordpress.com/tag/knock/
 
 
 
 
 

 
 
 

 
www.curator.ie 

PATS SAYS

I have been to Lourdes 28 times and everything it was special and special things happened to me.

I have been to Knock on fewer occasions and I have to say Knock leaves me cold and dry.

But, of course, my opinions and experiences are by no means definitive or final.

However, this projection / lantern story raises very serious questions about the integrity of Knock.

The fact that the PP had invested in a lantern before the “apparition” casts serious doubts about the apparition.

The fact that the PP himself did not go to investigate the apparition suggests that he knew more than he was letting on.

The fact that the Maynooth investigator favoured the lantern theory is significant.

Archbishop McHale had every religious and financual motive for wanting it to be true – as do his successors today.

What other Catholic site has gotten them 13.5 million in recent times?

The PP who had the lantern may have been a cynical and faithless cleric pulling a pastoral and financial stunt.

I’ve never been a Knock man and probably will never be unless Our Lady appears to me and reprimands me for my lack of Knock faith.

The hierarchy and clerics have encouraged mariology and indeed mariolotary over the centuries as their weapon of control over women.

All Catholic women must be like Mary – a servant and a virgin.

And hence women cannot be priests.

The humblest priest can do what Mary Queen of Heaven and earth cannot do.

She cannot command Christ to appear on earth – whereas the simplirst priest can.

A priest has greater power than Mary.

And Mary still does Father Dick’s bidding everyday at Knock.

And she is a great money maker.

Woman’s Body”” Poem by Frances Croak Frank

Woman’s Body

Did the woman say,

When she held him for the first time in the dark of a stable,

After the pain and the bleeding and the crying‘

This my body, this is my blood’?


Did the woman say,

When she held him for the last time in the dark rain on a hilltop,

After the pain and the bleeding and the dying,

‘This is my body, this is my blood’?


Well that she said it to him then,

For dry old men,

Brocaded robes belying barrenness,


ordain that she not say it to him now.  

JOHN HUBERT GOUGH ESQ

154 replies on “KNOCK – APPARITION OR SLIDE SHOW?”

what would our Lady say to the strange goings on in Maynooth and the Mullaney policy of lieing in attempt to Ordian Michael Byrne. O Mother of God please calm the mind of Fr Mullaney.

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So Pat – the mad mullah of Mullagh eh? That’s some comedown for little Paulette the Pryer. If she starts prying into the erections and emissions of those big country young fellas she might find their reactions a bit more agricultural than she was used to in previous rarified environments.

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That’s all been gone into about the magic lantern theory. The Church would have investigated Knock as thoroughly as Lourdes for every possibility of deception, fraud, trickery, or a natural explanation. It’s as Franz Werfel said in The Song of Bernadette: “For those who do not believe in God no explanation is possible; for those who believe in God no explanation is necessary”.

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Anon@ 8:55: You are quite right.
For those of us who do not believe in God, indeed no explanation is possible. “Explanation” is a word to describe “A statement which makes something clear.”
There is certainly nothing clear about the existence of God let alone the alleged miraculous appearances of Lourdes, Knock, and Fatima. Those are just the ones best known to pious Irish cathbots, for there’s lots more dotted around the world. Interestingly though, there’s been no recent apparitions where modern technology like phone cameras are ubiquitous, and would soon expose susceptible gullibility.
MMM

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Frank Warfel; more meaningless, sentimental shite eagerly lapped up by the blinkered, ignorant sheep

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Went to knock several times. Knock seems to be a cold place nothing fancy. Very austere place and dry. I didn’t feel it in the new church which was OTT. But the old church inside was bit special as I could feel it at times. I did experience healing there just once especially in confession and bodily healing as well. I had some doubt re knock later on when I found out and read somewhere that seers testimonies were erased or gone. So they had to do it all over again( 2nd time) sometime around 1930. Correct me if I’m wrong there. That was their foundation to push knock for religious recognition.
Money and politics played their part cos any apparitions was/is a money generator for religious authorities. Been to lourdes 3 times as its better than knock cos I get something out of that healing place. My friends who went to lourdes two years ago as they got healed which they didn’t expect it. They prefer lourdes to knock.

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Dawkins says the Lourdes phenomenon is a deception. You are surrounded by people who are there for similar reasons to you, all sharing a collective experience. Then comes the beauty of the candle light procession. It’s something you will never experience in Ireland. You get caught up in being away from home in another country, with people from all over the world. You tell yourself that surely all these people can’t be deceived.

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@11:50: While he’s good on the chicken and egg conundrum, “which came first?”, he’s even better on the God conundrum. Did humans invent God, or did God “invent” us?
MMM

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His doctoral thesis was “Selective pecking in the domestic chick”.
He should leave philosophy and theology to philosophers and theologians.

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Anon@ 4:15: I’ve just read your attachment article to see that the study was funded by the Templeton Foundation! Say no more.
While since the 1980’s it has become more interested in scientific research, its origins were very much linked to religious and moral matters. For example its main prize in 1973 went to Mother Teresa.
The resume of the study you refer to appears to simply cherry pick negative comments and opinions of Dawkins. He’s certainly controversial.
Listen to him on You Tube, and compare his clarity of thought and analysis with the waffle of opponent religious believers in many debates.
MMM

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Fatima, a favourite of conspiracy theorists and loopy traditionalists is a hoax but I don’t think it’s perpetuated for greed but power.

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Pat, I am saddened that you feel this way about Knock. I find it to be a remarkable place if great healing, prayer and peace.
I spend a few days twice a year and am uplifted every time I visit. I have huge respect for Fr. Gibbons and i am even more saddened that you feel the need to devalue and ridicule such a good man and priest. If yiu have such a livevfor Lourdes, it’s difficult to ubderstand your vehement disregard for Knock. The “graces and blessings of Knock are well documented. The whole emphasis in Knock us Ad Jesum per Maria. And what a beautiful mother she is.. I Hope you will respect the faith, prayer and devotion of thousands who travel to Knock yearly. I think your dismantling is unnecessary and offensive.

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And have these ‘graces and blessings’ been checked, investigated and verified by independent sources and agencies.
Thought not!

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“She cannot command Christ to appear on earth- whereas the simplerst (sic) priest can”.
“A priest has greater power than Mary.”
YOUR words Pat!
As one so regularly criticising priestly self delusionary primacy and prominence, maybe you should consider these statements more carefully.
MMM

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Yes Pat, on re-reading I picked up on possible irony, as per my 7.57am comment. G&T I would pick up on, but t in c (lower case) is a new one to me!
MMM

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I have one, overarching doubt about the ‘Magic Lantern Theory’ for the Knock apparition. Why did no one at the site notice the bright, ever-widening beam of light that would have projected from a lantern, had one been used to pull off such a hoax, and been highly visible in a darkening sky? Presumably, there was little (if any) useful street lighting, rendering the area pitch black, and any projected beam more noticeable. Yet none of the seers ever mentioned such a beam.
Moreover, it literally poured sheet rain for some time at the site, which meant that there was a wind blowing that night as well. Nevertheless, the image on the gable of the church reportedly never flickered nor blurred, as one might expect it to do had a beam of light projected from a lantern been repeatedly disturbed by wind, and broken by continuous and heavy rainfall.
These are highly significant points, which to my mind make the reported apparition at least plsusible.

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But they would have known a beam of light when they saw one, wouldn’t they?
To project that image clearly from a ‘magic lantern’ would have required precise measurements, yet the parish priest took possession of the lantern, seemingly only the previous day. Was he experienced in the operation of such a device? And did he have the time to calculate how far from the church gable the lantern needed to be positioned to ensure the clarity of any image he cared to project?
I am almost entirely sceptical of the ‘Magic Lantern Theory’, not least because its beam would have drawn attention and exposed the ruse.
The only other explanation for believing the apparition to be a hoax is if it was a conspiracy involving the entire village of Knock, or some in it. But then, if this were the case, why the need for such a lantern at all?

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A magic lantern show has to be held in total darkness to be effective, the glass slides never produce a totally ‘ crisp’ image even under the right conditions. There are closer to the old overhead projectors which didn’t take much to go out of focus, shake or have shadows from other objects. If a magic lantern could produce a clear image during a rainy day outside and be sustained for an extended period time then the inventor would have made a fortune.

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Reliable Catholic sources are reporting that two Catholic Priests in France have comitted suicide in the past thee days .

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There is no equivalent expression in French for “Roman Catholic”, of course. English-speaking Protestants invented that and it is not used outside the Anglosphere.
While we’re at it, I love that the Irish for Anglican translates as “church of the English”.
Lol.
🇮🇪🇻🇦

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12.12
And you don’t see the irony in the fact that you are writing (and speaking) in the ‘language of the English.’

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A bit of a sore head this morning after celebrating the news of Paul’s appointment last night. Mullagh will be the best parish in Ireland in 6 months, mass attendances through the roof, a stream of vocations, at least one apparation and fundraising that will leave Fr Dick in the shade.

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Super idea, Paul could interview all the local GAA lads, get signed copies of their underwear and auction same! Are there no end to his talents?

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I look forward to seeing Paul on the webcam at the consecration of Bishop-elect Martin Hayes on Sunday, 20 September at 3pm.

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I had the same experience in both Lourdes and Knock Pat. Unlike Lourdes I found Knock to be a soulless place filled with hucksters.

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8.40

Nope!

Actually, Caravan Man is I. And I am the poster at 1.56 am. 😀

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I wonder do the people of Mullagh realise how little their Bishop thinks of them? Agree with you about Knock Pat, it is a soulless place.

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Imagine the Bold Hughie Connolly reciting the Rosary lol the only thing Hughie can recite is McCarrick’s words of wisdom.

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+Pat: On reading your “Pat says” again, perhaps I failed to appreciate intended irony of your last two lines?
MMM

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Pat your magic lantern story lacks any credibility. You are implying that they had state of the art lanterns in 1879 that were like movie special effects! Up to 20 people looked at the image for more than 2 hours, do you not think that they would have spotted something if it wasn’t authentic?

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Magic lanterns were all the rage then. Highly suggestible people would believe any moving image, no matter how poorly presented and there is group hysteria, such as the dancing sun in Fatima and the moving statues of Ballinspittle.

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If the sun really danced it would be a global news sensation and would be in every science textbook and history book. I must ring up Armagh Observatory and ask them what their records show.

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An extremely ignorant comment. The most hardened critics saw the miracle of the sun, it was all over Portuguese media the next day. Do some research or even a Google search before making such a comment

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Lol this is so funny.
So the naive and poorly educated at the time would believe anything they saw in a magic lantern show.
The naive and poorly educated of 2020 will believe any apparition they read about!

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I thought everybody knew that the magic lantern show was done for a laugh by the local Protestant RIC constable?

The best bit is that the PP of Knock was a bit put out because the “visionaries” were lay people, including his housekeeper. He went one better and had a private vision in the comfort of the parochial house.

The youngest “visionary” was buried in an unmarked grave on Staten Island, though Timothy Dolan, with an eye on Irish-America remedied that a few years ago.

Why was St John wearing a biretta, when they were unknown before the 11th century? Is it because it is recorded that one of the “visionaries” had seen a statue in a local church in which St John is so depicted?

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The problem is the so-called visionary saw the Saint as depicted in church, complete with an anachronistic biretta lol.
Therefore they just saw the image in the church.

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Why did the witnesses think the bishop was John? Because a “visionary” Mary Beirne noticed how the image resembled the statue of St John she saw in Lecanvey near Westport. She was the one who decided it was John.

She said” The third figure appeared to be that of St, John the Evangelist; I do not know, only thought so, except the fact that at one time I saw a statue at the chapel of Lekanvey, near Westport, County Mayo, very much resembling the figure which stood now before me in group.”

The parish priest, Fr Cavanagh, who many think was in on the hoax, would have been familiar with the statue for he ministered for years in Westport. And Mary Beirne was a friend of his…

Margaret Beirne was certain of the statue. In her deposition, the following is squeezed in around her signature as if the priest didn’t want to put it in. It was obviously important to her that he put it in.

“The reason I knew it was St John was because I saw a statue of him at Lecanvey chapel.”

Dominick Beirne declared, “The reason I had for calling the third figure St. John is because some saw his statue or his likeness at Lecanvey parish chapel.”

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I see Polly Knickers Pryer has made a reappearance to lighten up our day. What about some other old standbys – Power Bottom JP Lyttle, Dean Kennedy, Rory, and the likes. They have the capacity to furnish us with such gleeful joy by their antics. In the difficult and testing times for us all, we need some divertimento. What a service they provide to the wider brotherhood.

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Fr Whisenant celebrated masses for a sedevacantist group, and publicly denied that Pope Francis is Pope. What happened Whisey? Missed the money?

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Henry is another tit like Littlewank. All that dressing up, biretta doffing, bad liturgy which they don’t fully understand, and poncing around the place like precious dolls. Didn’t H go to NZ to some monastery ? He didn’t last long there, did he ? How long will it be before he heads off to another ‘experience’? The bishops of these guys need to tell them to cop on and get down to some real work and stop pissing around.

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Fr Whisenant said: “I am delighted with the appointment and hope that in time many may benefit from this gracious provision that His Lordship has made.” No shit, Henry. It just means you can live a nice little life in the countryside next to some manor house, pretending to minister to the mad swivel eyed loons that inhabit the traditionalist world. His Lordship needs to give you a real job and whip your arse in to shape rather than indulging you.

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9:06am

You forgot to mention the skelly eyed modernists loons who are too busy doing other things like indulging each other probably with a whip. I can tell that’s your thing since you mention it yourself.

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Lol the whole church is a racket. Why would these circuses be any different?
The comment above about a bishop thinking little of parishioners… the parishioners are there for the church’s benefit, not the other way round.
This may sound cynical,but once you look at the church in the way I outline here everything is explained and you need no longer puzzle about why things are done as they are.

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The Knock knockers are out in force today, Pat? Is it a coordinated attack by the Medgaforgery Chamber of Commerce trying to destroy a competitor?

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Honestly those superstitious Cathbots will believe in any apparition and start booking the coach for a pilgrimage. There is a damp patch in an underpass in Chicago which is supposed to be shaped like Our Lady of Guadalupe, and the superstitious ‘faithful’ are forever leaving candles and flowers in front of it.
Roll up, roll up! Genuine pair of St Pius IX’s y-fronts for sale!

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Let’s get real about all these supposed apparitions like Lourdes, Knock, Fatima, Medjugorje and others…..nice though they are, comforting though these are, they are sham, pure and simple. They all fly in the face of basic physics and reason. The story of Mary is lovely, but all the nonsensical stuff attached to her – like assume;ption etc. – are just silly and we do ourselves disservice and demean ourselves in believing in them literally. I am prepared to accept that some of these places do bring the good out of people and inspire them to love and goodness, but that has more to do with innate goodness of humanity rather than Mary appearing miraculously. I have no doubt that the Knock PP back when the supposed apparitions allegedly took place had some part in engineering what happened. The same in the other places. I went to Knock once and found it dreary and grey, and listened to what I call a circular homily on the apparitions by some twit of a priest who wasn’t prepared and didn’t really know what he wanted to say other than something like this: “Mary appeared to the witnesses, who said that Mary had appeared to them, and we are hear so that Mary will come to us, so that we can say that she has come to us, just as she appeared to the witnesses to whom Mary appeared, and so, we pray that Mary will come to us as she came to the witnesses, who went before us, so that we can be. here now for Mary to come to us, just as she came to the witnesses……’ You get the idea !

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The standard of preaching in Ireland is low, thanks to Ronan Drury squatting as professor of homoletics (not a misspelling) in Maynooth for decades. His attention was always elsewhere, especially the Furrow but he had other interests too.

It’s interesting that the ridiculous chair of homoletics has been left unfilled.

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Roman Drury was never responsible for the standard of preaching in Ireland; only, to some extent, for the style of it.

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9.53: MMM – Mournful Maggie from the Mountains. Your atheism knows how to twist your humanity unto an empty vessel. Your “good without god” philosophy is an excuse fircsittjng all day in your bar stool…I wonder what wonderful legacy of change for the betterment of humanity will you be remembered for? Hospitals, schools, charitable works, justice, equality, opportunities for others, a caring community, town, village or mountain but?? Tell us the great monuments that stand because of your CARE and JUSTICE outreach….what real difference have you, MMM, made? Come in Mammy Mags from the Mournes….

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The first recorded cure at Knock after the apparitions – a deaf person recovering their hearing – took place 12 days later. Over a year later, in October 1880, Archdeacon Cavanagh had recorded 637 cures. How many cures do we know about in recent times? Is the FAKE NEWS not reporting them anymore? Or….?

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Yesterday it was pointed out that Knock sell online candle lighting services for a suggested €2 – well Lourdes say the suggested amount is €4. Richard must be following the Ben Dunne mantra of Better Value Beats Them All. I am surprised his suggested price isn’t €1.99 in line with best marketing practices – A price war maybe?

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9.53am GL
Just out of interest, does knock shrine have a book of documented cures or healing so we could see it for ourselves… 1st hand source etc.

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Nay. Yellow packers are twice as fast twice as effective while more financially rewarding.

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How was it possible to identify, specifically, the images on the wall of a church that didn’t introduce themselves? I mean come on. Mary, the mother of God? That one was easy, I suppose: wearing a crown, prayerful pose, and all that. But the other two? Joseph, the husband of Mary? And John, the Evangelist? How were they so readily named? It does suggest a pre-planned conspiracy in which the alleged visionaries were involved.

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Does it seem reasonable that Heaven would send three such figures to Earth without the good manners to make themselves known? Even at Lourdes, the apparition finally, after repeated requests by Bernadette Soubirous, introduced herself, albeit indirectly.

Is the apparition at Knock the only silent one in the history of Marian visions?

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Anon@11:35: Does ANYTHING about the Heaven you refer to seem in any way reasonable? I suggest not,……. unless one swallows a huge codswalloping dollop of that mysterious panacea called “faith.”
MMM

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You will know soon enough Mourning Micky that it’s not “codswallop” at all.

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I’m sure God will respect the sincerely held views of atheists.

He is not interested in paying people back for things.

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By Post Author

Begorra MMM sure faith is all around us. Sure if I eat healthy food I believe it will do me good. Lucozade was once marketed as a drink for people in hospital. Was their faith misguided? The Product is still on sale but we understand it differently. There is also objective reality. God does not exist because you or I formulate a theory. Objective reality is what it is because it is. Adam & Eve complex turns subjective reality into objective reality
Thats why we have so many angry little gods running about the place God help them

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Anon@ 11:45, & 2:34: It seems my comments raise your hackles. Good, …….if it makes you think, if that is possible 🤔
Really think 🤔 😕 🙄 😅
MMM

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Buckley at 2:36pm – God, according to you, always thinks, acts, reacts, decides, exactly as YOU think and decide how God should. Have you been God’s adviser and counsellor for long? God is so obedient to you. It’s amazing.

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I have never been God’s advisor. But he has been mine every day.

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11.35am
Yes as far as I know, knock is the only place as regards to silent apparition although I’m no expert.
There are plenty experts out there such as marianologists.

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Why would heaven represent John the Evangelist as a bishop? He was hardly a bishop in the modern sense of the word.

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Are there any mariologists reading the blog?
Can you answer my question at 11.35, please?
If the reported apparition at Knock is the only silent one in the history of Marian apparitions, it does seem very strange indeed.

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The apparitions were apparently static lacking any movement which could indicate the lantern theory.

But it seems it doesn’t take much for Catholics to give money, even huge amounts, to the church. Cathy Kirby’s shower is an example,

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The image that night could not have been static, as it were. There would have been at least the appearance of movement, since the atrocious weather (wind, and heavy rain) would have disturbed the beam of light, distorting the image alledgedly projected onto the church gable.

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Isn’t it time that Big Hughie Dean Kennedy came out of the shadows and made an appearance ? Where is he ? How is he ? What is he doing, if anything ? What is his status ? It simply isn’t fair that he’s just disappeared and deprived us of many of moment of glee and joy. Anyhow, I do not wish him any harm, and I hope and trust that he is well. But, I do miss his antics. He served a purpose.

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He lives in Porstewart in a well-appointed, tastefully decorated apartment with ocean views. He appears from time to time at Order of Malta events (I mean the posh oufit obsessed with quarterings, not the volunteer first aid Knights of Malta).

Other than that, Hugh “the breadman” Kennedy lives off the bakery inheritance and the occasional stipend and €2 candle.

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Pat, you should apply to Wrexham and D&C for your pensions with them and if they refuse take them to the industrial tribunal for deprivation of earnings. It’s free to conduct an industrial tribunal case in NI.

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He will still get his “pay” from the diocese. Payment for swanning around and doing sweet fa – so plus ca change – because that’s what he always did anyhow.
I heard that he infuriated some of the older people of Sacred Heart in North Belfast when he talked, on his first Sunday as PP, about his father going around “the Bone” (as the district is called) and distributing “left over” bread to the poor.
Lord Bountiful going around vouchsafing unto to their poverty stricken ancestors! They were very angry and he didn’t get off on a good footing.
That didn’t change because of his rude, highhanded, superior and condescending attitude thereafter.
A delusional buffoon of a man.

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I had an industrial tribunal so can tell you how it works, if you want. Most are settled out of court.

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From Fatima to Bethleham, from Lourdes to Kiltimagh I never seen a miracle like the airport up in Knock.

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Knock Knock indeed hi. All apparition sites pose the same phenomenological questions hi! For us tis purpose and management we need to point the eyeballs at. Light a candle for a penny, say a mass for a quid! This attitude has made both people and clergy lazy. For the people its a product. For the clergy its a service provided. But does it work hi! The ecclesiastical model seems to be out of steam

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The people of Mayo had to pay tithes to your lot, whether or not they were members of the church of the English.

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And they still pay tithes to the Romans who took over from the British.

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And Catholics have to pay tithes, as it were, to the Church of Rome, not under legal duress, but under manipulation of conscience by that church, which warned them that they had a ‘grave obligation’ to support their pastor’s indolence, and a lifestyle which few of them could emulate.

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Hi Pat. A completely unconnected subject, I’ve just been reading up on Mourne Park in Kilkeel. I noticed that it is on the edge of town, not far from the Catholic church. Did you ever have any contact with your neighbouring gentry?

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Actually I did. A son in law of the then countess John Hubeet Gough, Deputy Lord Lieutenant County Down was a devout Catholic and ex army. I appointed him as a reader at Mass and I was invited to lunch with him his wife and the Countess of Kilmorey on a few occasions
The countess, using an old-fashioned hearing horn, sat at the top of a 20 foot plus table and we three at the bottom.
One time her butler brought her in a whole cheese with a hole carved in the middle and the countess poured a whole bottle of white port into it. I’ve added a pic to the blog.

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Wasn’t Richard Needham, the former Tory MP and NIO Minister part of that family or am I confused?

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The old countess Pat refers to was the widow of the 4th Earl of Kilmorey. Richard Needham the ex-politician is now the 6th Earl of Kilmorey. His father (the 5th Earl) chose not to inherit Mourne Park and instead to inherit equivalent value from the other part of the 4th Earl’s estate. So the house went other members of the family (Anley). There were some legal wranglings in the early 2000’s between the siblings which resulted in one of them going to jail for a week.

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Did you ever think that obessession with Mary or Marian apparition was bit too far? I thought it bordered on the extreme re fanatical devotion or way over OTT to Mary. The focus should be on Jesus himself.
Interesting bit which I hadn’t thought of was a priest who can command Jesus down but not Mary.

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That vicar on the Wirral who tried to get his hands down my trousers, and other’s trousers, has caused the most inconvenievible troubles.
The Anglican head legal Chancellor for the Diocese, which the vicar no longer lives in, is now the judge in charge and of the case.
He advised my solicitors that he would like for my witness statements to contain only the “Necessary information.”
I have absolutely no idea why a judge would say such a thing.
My mother thinks people are determined for the evidence of abuse to never see daylight!
Really, mother; why on earth would anbody in their right mind wish to prevent evidence in one’s defence from entering a court…???…???

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Did they even have electricity in Knock in 1879?

If it were a projected beam from the school house any of the witnesses moving in front of the beam between the school and gable wall would have cast an enormous shadow which didn’t happen. One of the witnesses tried to embrace the figure of Mary yet know one shouted ‘Oi, get out o’ the way you’re spoiling the craic!’

P.S. Not a fan of Richard Gibbons either. Joe Quinn was much more genuine.

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Thank you, Bp Pat, for that information.
Without electricity the best illumination for a lantern would be something like an Argand lamp but that would not be able to cast a decent image over a distance. Several of the witnesses mentioned a three dimensional aspect to the appartition which would not be possible from a lantern image, yet alone the movement of the angels, or the ground beneath the appartion remaining dry whilst it was pouring down.

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