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CARDINAL DENIES USING £ 600,000 OF VATICAN FUNDS TO BRIBE WITNESSES AND SECURE A SEX ABUSE CONVICTION AGAINST PELL.

Pell in Rome the other day.

By Wayne Flower, Melbourne Correspondent08:56 05 Oct 2020, updated 08:56 05 Oct 2020

Former cardinal has been accused of using Vatican funds to bribe witnesses 

Giovanni Angelo Becciu is suspected of wiring the cash to recipients in Australia 

Becciu

Cardinal Becciu issued a strongly worded denial of the reports in Italian paper 

Cardinal Pell was accused of molesting choir boys in Melbourne in the 1990

Cardinal Pell returned to Rome last month after 13 months in jail and acquittal 

A former cardinal has denied using £600,000 of Vatican funds to bribe witnesses and secure a sex abuse conviction against Cardinal George Pell.  
Cardinal Pell spent more than 400 days behind bars after being convicted of abusing two 13-year-old choir boys in the 1990s, before the verdict was overturned on appeal. 

Cardinal Giovanni Angelo Becciu, who last month was accused by the Vatican of misusing funds, was reportedly a strong rival of Cardinal Pell at the time he was brought to trial. 

Cardinal Pell had served as finance minister at the Vatican, where he was tasked with cleaning up the Catholic Church’s accounting practices. 

Pope Francis appoints Giovanni Angelo Becciu as Cardinal during a consistory ceremony to create 14 new cardinals at St. Peters Basilica in 2018 in Vatican City.

Cardinal George Pell is escorted in handcuffs from the Supreme Court of Victoria in Melbourne on August 21, 2019.

Cardinal George Pell arrives at his residence in Rome, Italy, on September 30

In explosive allegations appearing in the Italian press, it was reported Cardinal Becciu was suspected of wiring the cash to recipients in Australia who helped to ensure hostile testimony against Cardinal Pell at his County Court of Victoria trial. 

Cardinal Becciu has strongly denied the reports, stating: ‘I categorically deny interfering in any way in the trial of Cardinal Pell’.

The Italian newspapers La Repubblica and Corriere della Sera reported Vatican investigators suspected that Cardinal Becciu hoped to stop Pell from exposing his allegedly corrupt management of Vatican cash. 

Cardinal Becciu resigned last month amid accusations he misappropriated Catholic funds while working as the deputy secretary of state between 2011 and 2018.

Among a raft of suspicions – all denied by Cardinal Becciu – are claims he may have funnelled Vatican cash to charities and businesses run by his three brothers.  

Cardinal Becciu’s supposed feud with Cardinal Pell goes back to 2016 when Pell ordered an audit of Vatican finances by an external accountancy firm.

Cardinal George Pell returned to Rome last month after spending more than 400 days in jailCardinal George Pell is seen having dinner on October 4 in Vatican CityCardinal George Pell waves as he arrives at Rome’s international airport in Fiumicino last month

That audit was quickly blocked by Cardinal Becciu.
The Corriere della Sera report alleged Cardinal Becciu often used journalists and contacts to discredit his rivals.

‘It is precisely in this vein that the payment in Australia would have been made, possibly in connection with Pell’s trial,’ the article claimed. 
The former choirboy who accused Cardinal Pell of abuse has denied any knowledge of bribes allegedly being paid to witnesses against Pell.

PAT SAYS

I have always said that I believed the men who were interviewed from Balarat about their childhood abuse by Fr Pell.

With regard the choir boys I have never seen them interviewed.

In any event the courts have decided that Pell is not guilty of what he was charged with.

If the allegations above are proven then it will quite clear that Pell was set up by Vatican bastardos like Becciu.

This would be a most serious matter and would require Becciu dismissed from the clerical state and put on trial for matters like conspiracy to interfere with the course of justice.

He should be tried for this in Australia and suffer the consequences.

If Cardinal Pell was shown to be totally innocent and a true victim of a conspiracy I personally would feel morally obliged to write to him and apologise for my misjudgement of him.

We await the outcome of the Becciu investigations.

NEW RESIDENT AT THE ORATORY

142 replies on “CARDINAL DENIES USING £ 600,000 OF VATICAN FUNDS TO BRIBE WITNESSES AND SECURE A SEX ABUSE CONVICTION AGAINST PELL.”

Well do you know what, Pat, a wee letter like that, from you to Pell, there can be no doubt, would more than make up for all that he has been through. In fact, the sheer consolation and joy, in receiving such a letter from you, would make all his trials well worth while and not in vain. It would further prove the old adages that every cloud had a silver lining and what doesn’t kill you only makes you stronger.

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I agree with Georgie Porgie at 11:01 pm you know, Bishop Pat; if indeed Cardinal Pell was set-up.
I myself know how it feels to be tossed aside and accused of being the one in the wrong, it is heartbreaking and it is very painful.
However, to be accused of something as abhorrent as was Cardinal Pell, when in fact innocent being innocent is totally abysmal.
Accusing somebody of being a fruitcake and delusional is one thing, but to falsely be accused of being a monster is all the more soul destroying- one could only imagine.

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10.03
IF Pell is actually innocent.
The Supreme Court did not find Pell innocent; it simply decared that the evidence to convict was insufficient.

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I feel sorry for the surviving choir boy who I feel was badly advised in pursuing the case against Pell. What was purported was against logic and reason and ultimately the judicial process came to the only decision it could. However, anyone who has experienced injustice and abuse at the hands of the church, gone public and sought support within their worshipping communities will have likely found themselves shunned by the cognitive dissonant congregation who are more willing to believe the clergy and hierarchy than one of their own. Never underestimate the power of belief or disbelief to see or not see what is in front of one’s own eyes especially when the gaslighting narrative comes from a deeply held authorative source.

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11.29: cognitive dissonant congregation…Whow!! This phraseology is familiar now in repeat comments…It is a disdainful, ignorant condescension and a lie. It is easy to accuse another of abuse, all too easy. It takes a life time to recover from the accusation, if ever. Many anti church journalists who followed the Pell case expressed their abhorrence at the witch hunt mob attack of colleagues against Pell. I’m glad you accept that the scenario of what was described as having happened was against logic and reason. Of course it was. I do hope that the man/men who were at the centre of this tragedy are receiving necessary support and help. I abhor the slowness of church authorities to be more caring, kind and compassionate towards vuctims/survivors.

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there was a lot of fishy aspects, beginning with Louise Milligan’s story of “the Kid”, and then the parallels between the Kid’s story and that of another accuser who got four men jailed and turned out to be a fantasist, e.g. the scenario of being trapped in the sacristy guzzling altar wine.

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8:48 am
Listen, bud, there’s hundreds of priests in prison convicted of child rape. It was Vatican policy to cover up CSA, among the litany of abuses covered up. You say you abhor the slowness of church authorities to be more caring ,kind and compassion towards victims/ survivors. Here’s a bit of news buddy; the authorities are not slow at all.
They don’t give a shite for victims/survivors.
So much for the parable of the good Samaritan, millstones and do unto others!.

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8.48

Against logic and reason? And yet you believe, presumably, that a little disc of unleavened bread becomes the actual, not the metaphorical or symbolic, flesh of Jesus Christ upon consecration at Mass.

For Catholics, against logic and reason is not their yardstick, for against logic and reason transubstantiation takes place.

And against logic and reason, many believe that George Pell’s conviction was utterly safe.

Against logic and reason does necessarily allow for ‘didn’t happen’.😕

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Excellent point@3pm!
If an Elvis fan muttered an incantation over a pancake, ant then claimed that Elvis has returned, …..well they’d send for the medics in white coats.
But if it’s an RC priest muttering, well, no need to send for the white coats:
already there in the long white dress!
MMM

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6.23
As one of my universty lecturers, on cultural rather than objectively rational definitions of mental illness, said in his Ph.D dissertation: ‘Seeing the virgin Mary is acceptable; seeing white mice is not.’

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Gaslighting?! I could write a bloody book…
and the strange thing is, if anybody slags a anyody off to me I just suss the situation out for myserf; I think with being an engineer and having Attention Deficit, I have to ‘see’ for myself.

If I were to inspect a 500+ zone fire alarm system on a school or hospital and just take somebody else’s word that X, Y or Z is working ‘fine’ or ‘not fine, the consequences could be catestrophic.

“Taste and see that the Lord is good;
blessed is the one who takes refuge in Him.”
Psalm 34: 8

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It is well known that Elvis was alive and shopping in Birmingham in the 1990s. Actually he was seen in several other places so must be a saint like Padre Pio!

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I have always believed that Cardinal Pell was completely misjudged and crucified by all sorts of Vatican and other corrupt people. He was vilified on this blog: torn to pieces: savaged by innuendo, speculation and hatred. I sincerely hooe that you, Pat, will do as you say and perhaps to many others whom you have likewise misjudged. There is much still to be said in this saga.

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“If Cardinal Pell was shown to be totally innocent and a true victim of a conspiracy I personally would feel morally obliged to write to him and apologise for my misjudgement of him.” Thousands of Australians should do the same. I wrote to him in prison.

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Mind, Bp Pat, all the protests and wriggling Pell did to avoid travelling back to Austalia for the commission into abuse on health grounds and later demanded a doctor to accompany him back for the trial. It seems nothing has prevented him from returning to Rome at the first opportunity. I think he is a liar at every level.

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8.04: More untruths. Get over it. Cardinal Pell ought to be left alone now. God bless him and save him from ignorant ranters.

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No, it’s you who is trying to twist the truth. There was even a song composed at the time urging him to return to Australia.

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8.04
I agree with you: I believe that Pell is a consummate and habitual liar.
I believe, too, that the Pellites who post here are about as gullible as it is possible to be.

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‘Cardinal’ and ‘liar’ in the same sentence; that’s just tautology.
You could get away with ‘a Cardinal liar.’

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Actually it is often anti-Pellites who are to the fore in pointing out the injustice he suffered. You, 5:34, now dismiss the findings of the top court in Australia. Do you say he is a liar about Vatican finances too?

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It’s hard to believe Becciu knobbled the swimming pool attendant who clearly remembers Pell exposing himself in front of youngsters in the changing rooms.

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he did not remember anything unusual, since all were naked in those shower rooms, but he INTERPRETED it in his own way

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10.04
What a nice way with words you have!
If I come across a man raping a little boy, you’d probably say the same: that it was just my ‘interpretation’.
JM&J! Are there no lengths of self-delusion that you Pellites won’t go? 😕

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8.28
Indeed. And the young boys who alleged that Pell molested them in an outdoor swimming pool under the guise of horseplay.

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so it’s ok to imprison a man for a year and a half on the basis of he might have been lingering suspiciously in the showers and he might have behaved ambiguously with boys on a totally different occasion? It looks as if once an allegation is made against you by anyone it takes on a snowball momentum and can be exploited by unscrupulous journalists, police, and lawyers, and even high placed plotters and bribers. We saw a huge miscarriage of justice here, which almost succeeded. The anti-Pellites are inviting the same sort of injustice for themselves. Once you let prejudice and hysteria rule, no one is safe.

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Remember, Bp Pat, one of the altar servers, passed away before the trial.

The conviction was based on the testimony of the other altar server the transcript of which seems to remain secret.

I can’t find the link now, but I remember that queenie old Catholic commentator, Damian Thompson, suggesting we would be “very surprised” at the identity of the witness involved.

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9.53
I think you’re the fool I corrected the other day. You’re obviously a very slow learner, or just a liar.
The other 13-year-old boy allegedly molested by Pell in a sacristy denied that any abuse took place. Ergo (I’ll put this as simply as possible…just for you), HE WASN’T ONE OF PELL’S ACCUSERS.

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8.54: A total lie and a cold, cynical comment. Cardinal Pell has been acquitted of all and every accusation of abuse. He is entitled to feel aggrieved and to get on with living his life.

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I admired him for the first time when I saw how little he expressed any sense of being aggrieved. I think he really put himself in the Lord’s hands, and I suggest that if we all did the same half the agonies on display at this site and half the angst about church crisis would disappear.

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8.37: I absolutely agree with you. There are some haters – with not an iota of concern for truth or justice – who just want heads to roll in a crucyfying way. Why? Hatred of the Catholic Church.

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8.37
Your post is a lie.
Pell was not acquitted of every accusation against him. There were other accusations made. A number of men alleged that Pell fiddled with them as boys in an outdoor swimming pool under the guise of horseplay. Unfortunately, prosecutors decided that there was insufficient evidence to secure a conviction in court. That is not an acquittal.

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Pat, can we give credit to Christina Gallagher, and Gerard McGinnity for standing by her, for calling this situation out in an obviously informed way and against the odds earlier this year? For what it’s worth.

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Don’t lose sight of all the other even more main issues. The man in Adelaide was convicted of dereliction but Pell wasn’t prosecuted for it. Those among the newer accusations that aren’t being tried are not even the biggest point. Meantime Becciu is to have a meaningless trial. He may or may not have been induced to do the done thing so that he would be sheltered if he didn’t disagree on something else big. The RCC is so quaint we expect cardinals and archbishops to derelict their own ages-old real safeguarding duty and make a flourish of outsourcing a cut down variety. We expect them to be a bit naive when their colleague who has a six year old’s arithmetic miscounts.
If hundreds of senior US clergy over thousands of sq. miles knew about the activities of Mr McCarrick for 40 years, then 98 % of pocket handkerchief vatican dwellers know a lot of business that has been going on a few feet down the corridor right from the days of the strangely imported and promoted Marcinkus, Sodano and Bertone. This isn’t the church my parents’ old PP had me christened in. It only gets dealt with when it “suits” and “who are we to judge” whether it is getting dealt with really properly or not. Pell’s concern on finances is genuine up to a point and that makes him “useful”. I call it distraction burglary burglary and the worst of it, which we all know, we don’t dare talk about very much.
You’re all a sterling bunch for the way you are all speaking up. The “plot against Pell” line is being overdone, there is a plot against everyone. Having missed his proper chance to shop the corrupt prelates prior to elevation, Pell would have been better off sitting out the relative disapproval in Sydney and taking reports from swimming pools as they might come, and letting people apparently less honest with money than himself stew in their bad money. Brownie points aren’t worth volunteering for. The role of rescuer is bad looking. The biggest plot has been against the ordinary wouldbe faithful (who don’t have gifts or any calling towards each other) in more than one country and we have to just make ourselves safe now.

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The same Italian newspaper speculated that the transfer of funds from Cardinal Angelo Becciu’s department was used to bribe false “witnesses” in the trial of Cardinal George Pell.

But there was only one witness in the trial of Pell.

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The story appeared in three prominent Italian newspapers on the same day.
Apparently it was leaked by someone inside the Vatican.

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10.54
Many would disagree with you. They’d say his life took a disastrous turn shortly after his alleged abuse by Pell; in fact, the boy was just fourteen when he began taking drugs. Not long after such abuse took place. Do you really think the two are unconnected? His allegedly being orally raped by a man and his descent into a drug addiction that would lead to his premature death?
If Pell is guilty of those appalling and cowardly crimes, he has too, in all probability, an indirect hand in that young man’s death.

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The details of this story are very sketchy, to say the least.
Apparently, it is not known who received the money in Australia.
What this story does illustrate is the level of corruption in the Catholic Church.
How many more Cardinals are corrupt?

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Abortion: an issue Jesus never mentioned which makes Christians forget all the things he talked about.

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He didn’t need to mention abortion because that abhorrent sin was not widespread so people did not need to be reminded that it is evil.

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+ Pat, did you know you are mentioned in Diarmaid Ferriters book “Occassions of Sin: sex and society in modern Ireland”.?

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And once again thank you for allowing different points of view on here. The hatred, gaslighting and bigotry in the Cathbots’ comments above is palpable, and particularly abusive towards someone with an addiction.
These people show what nasty pieces of work they are by their attitude. And frankly who would want to be in a RC cesspool enclave when these people can’t even read but persist in misinterpreting the plain facts in front of them.
Cardinal Pell’s conviction was found to be based on inadequate evidence. This does not mean he is guilty or innocent, it means there wasn’t enough evidence to say either way.
If you can’t understand that sentence, stay away from the subject.

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Wrong 11:46. A man is innocent until he is proven guilty. Pell was found, on appeal, not guilty of all charges. You sound like Lord Denning who used to go round saying that the Birmingham Six were not innocent, merely found nit guilty by a court.

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Cardinal Beccui, like Cardinal Pell, is entitled to a presumption of innocence, innocent until proven is a principle not just of law but of human dignity. Of course this principle applies to a secular court not an ecclesiastical one where justice as everybody know is fluid, laughable and risible.
The appeal judges upheld Cardinal Pell’s appeal because with the passage of time they judged he couldn’t be convicted beyond reasonable doubt.
Cardinal Pell was wealthy enough to have the money to exhaust the legal process – where does this money come from is anybody’s guess – he certainly wasn’t reliant on legal aid and could afford the best lawyers and legal firms in Australia. It is a sad fact that access to wealth and justice often go hand in hand.
It is however a matter of record that Cardinal Pell was severely criticised by the Royal Commission and was less than sympathetic and understanding towards victims of child abuse. No doubt he’d insist that he gets it now.
Senior clerics in the Catholic Church not only know where the bodies are buried, they know who buried them, they know which skeletons are in which cupboards and whose in the cupboard and whose out of the cupboard and to secure advancement, privilege and power they sign up to a clerical omertà (pontifical secret) which ensues that rather than the truth outing (so to speak) it is hermetically sealed for decades, centuries or in most cases forever.

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@1:40
If you actually read my comment you will find I don’t say that.
So you’ve made up your mind I’m guilty 🤣
Not the brightest button in the box.

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11.46: I din’t see any so called “cathbot” narratives today. What I see are people expressing their disgust at those – like you – who tell lies and who have a fantastical propensity to rewrite all aspects of history, especially in relation to Church issues. I have as much right as you to express my opinions – and in this instance express my delight that Cardinal Pell is getting on with his life. Why should you do a retrial of his life by a lynch mob? In relation to comments being.nade to “someone” with an addiction problem – there are many such – one in particular – who are poisinously abusive to others with whom they disagree – and infinitely more horrible than your supposed “cathbot”!!

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9.55: My abhorrence of all abuse and cover ups have been spoken, expressed and appreciated. Typically, Pat, you define yourself as the greatest. Crap. My abhorrence is as valid as yours. You haven’t made any significant difference except incite hatred, vengeance and vindictiveness.

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Look at me! I abhor abuse! Nobody is paying attention to me! I keep saying I abhor abuse! Why are you still talking about abuse when I’ve told you repeatedly I abhor it!

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2.07: At least you get the message. We are blue in the face expressing abhorrence at abuse and cover ups. Sorry if you are bored, bored, bored….. 😑😑😑😑😑😑😑😑..But thanks for your very kind listening🎶🎶🎶🎶🎵🎵🎵🎼🎼🔊🔊🔉🔈🔊.

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So busy expressing your abhorrence that you haven’t noticed that unless people see you act they will not believe your expressions.

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I see (on BBC web new site) that the investigation into abuse in the Church of England has just published its report. The same themes emerge as previously with the RCC. Again the hierarchy come out of it badly. It’s food for thought on relevance of blaming celibacy. But the abuse of power and privilege seems prevalent here too.
Just sent you a link +Pat to the BBC story.
MMM

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The surviving church blog is an interesting commentary on this and other ways power is misused in churches. It draws exactly the same conclusion as you, MMM, but interestingly also has an insight into the way power has been used by the evangelical wing of the church and how people are controlled. I can’t remember if he comments on the significant problems in the Anglo Catholic-leaning diocese of Chichester.

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3.29 well pointed out and everything, from what ‘elements’ were trying to suck the younger Welby into, to Brompton, Bethel and Toronto, are stepping stones or entree points to promotion at the cost of the current total destruction of thousands of personalities into zombie robots. It’s the same dynamic and the same ingredients everywhere (including commerce and administration), only the superficial flavour varies slightly.

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Guess what, money launderers take active steps to hide money flow including using different companies as cover and repeatedly moving it through different jurisdictions.
It can become difficult or impossible to follow the trail once money gets out of one country. That’s why they do it.
Mother of God, are you naive or just stupid?

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2.17
Are you frightened that having pinned all your hopes on Pell’s innocence that this latest accusation will prove to be nothing more than smoke and mirrors. You certainly sound frightened.
Look at the facts. Becciu is hardly a master embezzler; here’s a clue: HE GOT CAUGHT. Do you really believe that this idiot could have masterminded the use of such sums in a way that left absolutely no trace? To help you answer, here’s that clue sgain: HE GOT CAUGHT. I’ll give you a while to unpack this.
Meantime, what a hopeless accusation against Pell, eh? The best these conspirators could come up with was the not-particularly-plausible hypothesis that Pell took time out from a processional route to orally rape two young boys in a sacristy? Come off it! All that money spent on such an unlikely drama? Couldn’t they have come up with something more convincing? I mean, really? SERIOUSLY?
One of us is certainly stupid, and gullible. And it ain’t me.

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Mind, it would seem Dom Kathy Kirby at Silverstream may have “masterminded the use of such sums in a way that it left absolutely no trace.”

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@2.05, yes, there would. Such a large sum could not have been used as a bribe without leaving a trail a mile wide, one easily followed. So they should be able to provide conclusive evidence of this latest accusation involving Pell. But they won’t, because the accusation is false.

I believe that Pell committed those despicable crimes. I believe, too, that what is now being said about Becciu is highly convenient propaganda both for the Vatican and for Pell.

There will be a lot of smoke in the air over this, but there will be no fire. The smoke will provide some cover for Pell, and provide the Vatican with a raison d’être for recalling a man many, including me, believe is a dangerous paedophile.

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2.34: Do you not get it? Ever. You obviously have made up your mind. Thankfully for Cardinal Pell the courts of the land have administered JUSTICE and TRUTH for him. Your lies are your problems to deal with.

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Lol it’s perfectly simple to evade money laundering regulations which chiefly make life more difficult for law abiding citizens who are doing things like buying or selling houses or buying annuities lol.
The regs exist because money vanishes every day. You’re being very naive lol
You also misunderstood my post to the extent that your not really answering it. My post was replying to 2:05. I was assuming 2:05 was saying that Becciu was innocent, although obviously it could have been saying Pell was innocent.
I pin no hopes on Pell’s innocence for the record my opinion is both of them are very guilty indeed.

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Pat, there’s another element to this I have just thought of. If it were the case that Pell were set up by people in the church, then it is just as much of a cesspool of sordidness as I’ve always said.
I can only think that Pell would be aware of that simple fact- and Pell would be better placed than most to know what the church is like behind the facade – which means he supped with dangerous forces.
He who sups with the devil needs a long spoon and I think for their own safety people need to keep away. To serve the organisation means knowingly placing yourself in danger and corrupt company.
And how is that serving the kingdom?

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7.59
It really isn’t your day, is it? You, and the other Pellites who post here?
You’ve taken a real pasting today, and made yourselves look desperate fools, in your attempts to wring even the most tenuous plausibility from this ridiculous accusation against Bellicu. But it ain’t working: Pell remains highly damaged goods.
There is a dark spectre haunting Pell. You know it, but you don’t want to admit it. 😎

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Indeed, remember Blackfriars Bridge. The guy going on here about “Pellites” does not seem to know the results of the legal and carceral ordeal the man underwent, and the reasoning behind his acquittal, which have impressed many qualified and experienced people who were ideological enemies of the cardinal.

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It was shocking that SNP MP Margaret Ferrier went by train and back from Glasgow to London with Covid symptoms. It was shocking that she went to Mass at St Mungo’s Glasgow. It was shocking that she was reported to have read the Gospel. I assume it is sloppy reporting and she proclaimed the first or second reading. However, once in Long Island at Mass, a child read the Gospel and a woman did the homily. Only in America and Glasgow!

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Dream on mate! The Mungo Mass has been widely reported. The Long lsland Mass was in September 1993. I can reveal the parish and the date. The child (now an adult) and the female preacher may confirm their involvement in the Only in America Mass.

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Bp Pat, I found Damian Thompson’s tweet predicting our jaws will drop when we finally find out who Pell’s accuser was.

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Just think: if Pell did commit those crimes against two young boys, he not only got away with them, but is also an habitual liar.
If he committed those crimes (and many still believe that he did), then it would hardly be a stretch of conscience too far for him to handle to start hanging another lie on that now very convenient peg, Becciu.
Put it another way, Becciu is a highly convenient fall guy for Pell, isn’t he? If Pell is lying. How could it go wrong for him.
They won’t ever, in my opinion, find any evidence to prove this latest accusation, because they can always say, as a gullible fool implied here earlier, that Becciu, and his co-conspirators, were master embezzlers, so there wouldn’t be any trace of those alleged bribes to witnesses in Australia.
It’s all remarkably, well, wonderful, isn’t it? No need to prove anything against Becciu, and Pells accuser; just keep throwing mud and it’ll stick, cos Becciu has form, so to speak. All very delightful for Pell, if any of this is true.
But if it is true, how is Pell’s soul? Is there any sanctifying grace in it at all. He’ll find out soon enough.

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Not if he has invincible ignorance to the extent that you do, fool.
According to the UK’s Economic Crime plan 2019-22, the scale of money laundering is vast. The National Crime Agency (NCA)’s National Strategic Assessment 2019 estimates that serious and organised crime costs the UK economy at least £37billion a year and that there are 4,542 known organised crime groups operating in the UK.
https://www.ifa.org.uk/technical-resources/aml
The cost of money laundering
Money laundering represents an enormous cost to the UK economy each year. In May 2019, the National Crime Agency estimated that the illegal movement of money by criminals and terrorists costs the UK economy over £100 billion a year. When you consider that the total spent on the NHS in England was £129 billion over 2018 and 2019, the devastating financial consequences of this financial crime become starkly apparent.
https://purcellparker.co.uk/money-laundering-offences-will-you-go-to-prison/
The study by the UN Office on Drugs and Crime in Vienna out on Tuesday (25 October) estimates that organised crime in Italy – mostly illegal waste disposal, drugs and people trafficking – is worth €116 billion a year, equivalent to 7.7 percent of the country’s GDP.
The scale of the problem is far larger than in other industrialised nations – organised crime accounts for 1.3 percent of the economy in Germany, 1.2 percent in the UK and 2.3 percent in the US.
https://euobserver.com/justice/114072 (A little elderly I know, but a quick example to show a fool he’s wrong)
Banks and other financial institutions reported more than 24,000 transactions involving suspected money laundering to the authorities last year, double the number reported five years ago.
The transactions ranged from the proceeds of suspected social welfare fraud and minor drug dealing being lodged into credit union accounts to suspected cases of terrorism financing and money laundering by major drug gangs.
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/massive-increase-in-reports-of-money-laundering-1.3603635%3fmode=amp?espv=1
But you won’t read them will you. Since your actual aim is to suck up to a cardinal.

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5.17
😅
Read my post at 3.52. No; on second thoughts you probably won’t bother, such is your eagerness to suck up to a cardinal.
So…
I’ll bring that post to you! 😃
BECCIU GOT CAUGHT. Unpack that for a moment. HE-GOT-CAUGHT.
He is no master embezzler; he leaves a trail as obvious as the slug he is. Conclusion? If this idiot had indeed bribed witnesses (Witnesses? There was only one: Pell’s accuser.), there would be a trail as easily found as all the others he left.
Your mistake is ranking this fool as highly as genuine master criminals.
Which makes you a fool, too. 😎

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I return rather late to find your confused jumble of two different subjects. Is that supposed to be an answer?
Actually, don’t bother to answer that. Although I know you will, because you can never resist it can you?
You might like to point out where I have said Becciu is a master criminal. Oh no, you can’t.
I look forward to seeing how jumbled you get in your reply. Perhaps you will talk about Cardinal Newman’s skullcap or Cardinal Becciu’s piggy bank.
Those at least would make some sense.

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5.58
You didn’t say so…in so many words. But it is what you meant, all the same. Otherwise your banging on about all that money-laundering caca would have been totally pointless.
You should have retired a comment or two ago…to save losing such face as you have.

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5 20….But you, sir, are not interested in genuine expressions of abhorrence.. Read about and lsten to others beyond this blog. This forum is biased against Catholic Clergy.

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Everybody listen to us! We abhor abuse! We protest it in every forum!
What absolute nonsense. Your focus is solely on yourself and a response which really abhors abuse does not take attention away from any abuse.
You really need to think what you would have to say to make me think you really abhor abuse instead of being defensive and demanding. It’s actually not difficult . For example the other week I was talking with a social worker and came away happy that any child in her purlieu will be safe. Despite demonstrated repeat failing of social care and actual abuse having a history of taking place by social workers.
My suggestion would be to read the accounts of those abused, and actually let the reality of their lives sink in. Then hopefully that will shake your entitlement enough for you to begin to sound like you mean what you say.

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doubt very much if there is any truth in the report that Becciu was actively bribing witnesses and prosecutors in the Pell case. I am sure this would have emerged, and it really does sound a bit far fetched. Perhaps Becciu was glad that Pell’s attention was drawn back to Australia at a time when he was seeking to interfere in the murky world of Vatican finance where Becciu was meddling and wheeling and dealing. The connection that I can see between Pell and Becciu is the difference in which their respective cases have been dealt with. In the case of Pell, he received the fullness of the process of justice, right up to the Supreme Court, and was eventually found to be innocent. That judgement stands and must be respected. It was a difficult road for Pell and others to follow, but there is not doubt, notwithstanding some short comings in the South Australia judicial system, that in the end Pell received right and proper treatment in the justice system. The system worked. In stark contrast, in the Becciu case, there seems to be a distinct lack of judicial fairness. Becciu has been summarily found guilty and punished without, it seems, any semblance of juridical process. The Church talks grandly about justice and lectures us on the rights of the individual, as it does in a whole range of other matters, and yet as so often happens the preaching on these matters and application to us does not seem to extend to the Church itself, especially to the bishops and clergy. We have seen it in so many other areas – sexual morality, lifestyle, use of power and authority – you name it, the Church tells us what to do and then its functionaries go on their merry way and ignore it in their own lives. And so it seems with the Becciui affair. To be continued……

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Part 1.5

Do try to be reliable.

The Victoria Supreme Court did not, could not, find Pell innocent: it simply judgeded that the evidence on which he had been convicted, and which conviction would be upheld by the appeals court, was insufficient. This is not declaring Pell innocent. I’m sure, if you try very hard, you’ll work out the nuance here.

As for respect, it is the truth that I will respect, whatever it may be.

Pell either committed those crimes, or he did not. I believe that he did. This is where my respect starts. And stops.

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5.25: I disagree fundamently with your fallacious argument. I accept Cardinal Pell is freed of all allegations. Let him get on with his life. Respect the truth as I do…

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6.31

My ‘fallacious argument’? 😕

I have you hot and bothered, haven’t I? And all with a, erm, ‘fallacious argument’.😅

Is it fallacious to argue that a court cannot pronounce someone actually innocent when it wasn’t actually present at the time the alleged crime was committed?

I await your answer with an anticipatory chuckle. 😄

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6.31 Of course we are glad he is getting on with his life but he is not “freed of” the proof of his earlier dereliction which these distractions and counter distractions are intended as distraction from, despite actual relative merits or otherwise (distraction burglary burglary). Victoria is a bent state, as to prosecuting of dereliction and of bribery alike. It took them 30 years to compensate the policeman they wrongly sacked for investigating the molestations.
If Victoria do or don’t want to prosecute something – and in what manner – and their weird jury system – there is nothing we can do about it. Most parts of the US are no better. His record when he was in Melbourne province was not the first such and isn’t going to be the last. He could probably have just sat it out in his Sydney job (Australia being separate states).
Do you think it is easy for the better police forces in numerous jurisdictions to follow up a constant trickle of small and medium amounts flowing between Caribbean and other parts if it emerges people in a country town in Europe have been putting a few quid in unawares? It has been habitually ingrained for hundreds of years for the many factions of Jesuit lookalikes to imitate each other in things of this kind and they shouldn’t be trying so hard to run non-core business by their ground level membership whom they are just stringing along. Pell might not have had it in for Becciu at all, for all we’ll ever know.
This is the hazard poor Alex has been lured into: is he going to be invited to “advise a hierarchy” since they have got him onto their “greasy pole” (horrid phrase)? Some of us were born on the fringes of the RCC and actually thought it free and easy because we hit an unusual patch where they (temporarily) weren’t trying anything on with us. The solution is and always was simple: when anyone tries something on, you never were under obligation. That remains the obvious option for Rome enthusiasts: don’t package deal, show which add-ons you refuse to opt into, go cafeteria.

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….The Church says that justice should be observed, but Becciu seems to have been the victim of a kangaroo court, with the Pope deciding on the evidence that he has seen that Becciu is guilty and proceeds to punish him. It is rather like the police saying to a judge that they think somebody is guilty and the judge taking them at their word and not testing the evidence or trying the case and allowing a defence to be mounted, and proceeding to find the person guilty and punish him. So it is in the case of Becciu. This is not good, and will come back to bite the Vatican, the Pope and the Church in the arse. I am sure in the Vatican that there are many clergy from cardinal down to humble secretary priest who resent this treatment, and that will fester away, and the Vatican and the Pope will lose their trust and their loyalty. It will back fire. As well as being an injustice to Becciu, even though he is undoubtedly a lizard and is up to all sorts of things. But that need to be proven and shown to be the case in order for him to be declared guilty. Most disturbingly, this is another case of the Church telling us to act in one way, but acting completely differently itself. Who can have respect, or listen to, an institution like that ?

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Part 2.5

‘As well as being an injustice to Becciu (his summary dismissal by Francis), even though he (Becciu) is a lizard and … up to all sorts of things.’

You didn’t see the irony here, did you? 😕

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What does that say about the Church and the Pope ? I am not prepared to put myself under the authority of someone who is able to act so autocratically and arbitrarily, especially when they tell everybody else that truth and justice should count. I’m sick of the double standards that the Church applies when it suits its purposes. I feel sorry for those clergy who still live under that medieval autocracy, which even bishops assume, so that the bishop’s whim of the morning becomes the decree of the afternoon, where if your face does not fit you find yourself doing the hardest of jobs, and where when you retire if you are a mate of the bishop you find yourself well looked after. It stinks.

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6.12: Kangaroo Court – you are very familiar with this kind, Pat…you are a supreme, chief practitioner against the many you detest and hate.

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People on here get the right of reply. How is it that none of them avail of it ???

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Kangaroo courts are the refuge of despots, tyrants, dictators and emperors – they leap over due process, human rights and human dignity – Jesus was tried by a Kangaroo court (hastily arranged in the dark of the night), trumped up charges, false witnesses (bribed?) etc. The Vatican’s legal system isn’t fit for purpose (although it postures with great aplomb that it is) – canon law is a farce and God help anyone – guilty or innocent caught up in its web. The Butler, the Journalist and the Monsignor, spring to mind.
St Gerard Majella was falsely accused of sexual assault – he vowed never to defend himself if ever falsely accused – his legal tormentor was the canon lawyer St Alphonsus Ligouri – he was found guilty and punished – on her death bed his accuser recanted, and said it was a attention seeking and a pack of lies. St Gerard conducted himself with great dignity and did not defend himself and I guess ( if you believe in canonisation) is why he’s a saint. Pell and Beccui wear the red representing the blood of martyrdom and persecution – will they or any cardinal conduct themselves with the dignity of their office or will they squeal like little piggies saying weeeee weeeee all the way home!!

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This impious nonsense that a good Christian should not defend himself was not observed by Jesus before the Sanhedrin. He DID defend himself to the best of his ability.
Silence in the face of accusations (‘No comment.’) is often a sign of guilt, not innocence.
The Romanists have very peculiar notions at times. 😕

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“The Pell groupies” — that’s the name calling used by those who stopped their ears to all warnings that Pell’s conviction was unsafe. We saw the same thing with the Birmingham Six. And now they go on as if his conviction was never overturned: “Pell either committed those crimes, or he did not. I believe that he did.” Despite the demonstrated IMPOSSIBILITY of what “the kid” accused him of? “If Pell is guilty of those appalling and cowardly crimes, he has too, in all probability, an indirect hand in that young man’s death.” Young man twice denied he was ever abused. It’s so easy to concoct these scenarios as the hugely successful Carl Beech demonstrated. As to St Gerard Majella’s dignity when convicted on a false accusation, I would say Pell has shown the same dignity. His memoir of his time in prison should be read.

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The cash cows tits are drying up and crusty. The Church of Rome will have to face a stark reality that they’re numbers will never return to pre-covid and as a result will no longer have the luxury of being bankrolled by the sheepeople. What will they do? Fade into the history books? Lucky most people going forward to the priesthood are late vocations so they have some chance of gaining meaningful employment when the dinosaur entity goes into extinction. The rest of the old pervs will be kicking up daisies so it’s actually a positive prospect.

I believe G-d has a plan for all his people, gay people, single mothers, sinners etc. all those shunned and abused, sexually, physically and emotionally.

Given the past experience of mismanagement of funds I think we need to petition our local governments to compulsory purchase at nil consideration the assets of this corrupt entity around the world.

In Ireland the criminal assets bureau have many times confiscated ill gotten gains, have they taken this kips ill gotten gains?

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Pell was permitted to travel to Rome ostensibly to “clear his Rome apartment.” I’d be surprised if the dirty old cunt ever returned to Melbourne.

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Pat it’s been a good day on here today with vigorous discussion like we had before his actions caused you to ban Magna Carta. It’s a pity he now can’t do his trademark Ian Paisley impression, but his tones are clearly recognisable in some comments where he tries his other trick of changing tack and trying to confuse the other person.

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“People on here get the right of reply. How is it that none of them avail of it ???”

The answer is very simple, Pat. They don’t trust you and you are evil.

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Sounds like paunch and Judy show. Who controls the puppets. Surely Skippy (remember him) is not also involved. Today’s news tomorrow’s 🧻 but that’s unhygienic these days. Time for bed said Zebedee

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It is wrong to say both that Pell is innocent and that he is guilty. The conclusion has actually been that there was insufficient evidence for a conviction. However the fact it got that far and two courts thought him guilty means the evidence must have been quite pressing.
It is perfectly possible not to have evidence enough for a legal conviction but still to be guilty. For example there was a nurse in the papers where I live some time ago who was alleged to have assaulted a patient. He has had no legal punishment at all because there was no prospect of a conviction, but still got struck off and is on that register of people who can’t work with vulnerable people.
So it depends on the level of evidence you use and it is not as simple as Pell wasn’t convicted so must be innocent.

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Innocent until proven guilty, just like you and me. It is up to the prosecutor’s to prove beyond reasonable doubt. That is the high bar, given the possibility of imprisonment. The prosecution failed to prove guilt.

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Would you say the level of evidence against the B’ham 6 was “quite pressing”? Did you read the dissenting judgement in the first appeal? It DEMOLISHES the allegation against Pell.

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THE RCC CELIBACY CSA CATALYST?
To what extent does the requirements of clerical “celibacy” act as a driving factor in Catholic clerical sexual abuse, both of children and dependent or vulnerable adults? The simplistic perception might infer that in relation to the RCC, an absence/unavailability to its clerics of normal legitimate sexual outlets accentuates probability of all forms of abusive behaviour. One wonders if an analytical comparison with the CoE abuse statistics and patterns would alter that simplistic perception concerning RCC clerics.
The similarities between the RCC and the CoE are revealing: hierarchical failures to recognise abuse; to take preventive action; cover-ups; lack of concern for victims…….the same old, same old.
At least the CoE hierarchy are in immediate agreement that safeguarding officers should not be under control of the bishops, tho’ it remains to be seen how truly independent they will be.
This is in contrast to Catholic bishops, a subject regularly debated on this blog. It just shows them up for the fools they are.
MMM

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10:38 pm

Celibacy is not the catalyst of CSA.
It’s psychological, emotional, psycho-sexual immaturity.(Arrested development).
See Dr. Richard Sipe.

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