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FRANCIS ENDORSES SAME SEX CIVIL UNIONS.

By Delia Gallagher and Nicole Chavez, CNN

(CNN)Pope Francis has declared support for civil unions for same-sex couples for the first time, according to the Catholic News Agency.

The Pope made the historic remarks in “Francesco,” a new documentary film directed by Russian filmmaker Evgeny Afineevsky, that premiered at the Rome Film Festival on Wednesday.


“Homosexual people have a right to be in a family. They’re children of God and have a right to a family. Nobody should be thrown out or be made miserable over it,” the Pope said in the film, the Catholic News Agency reported.

“What we have to create is a civil union law. That way they are legally covered,” the Pope said.

The film also explores the Pope’s work and views in other issues, including climate change, migration and economic equality, according to the film’s website. It is set to premiere in North America on Sunday during the SCAD Savannah Film Festival.

Francis has suggested in past interviews that he is not against civil unions, but this is the first time as Pope that he has directly come out in favor of them.


As Archbishop of Buenos Aires, Francis advocated for same-sex civil unions as an alternative when Argentina was discussing whether to legalize same-sex marriage.

Francis’ comments differ from his predecessor, Benedict XVI, who made the news when he labeled homosexuality “an intrinsic moral evil.”

Jesuit Father James Martin, who has advocated for the church to welcome LGBTQ people, said bishops from many countries, including some in the United States and Poland, who are “violently against” civil unions will have to rethink their positions.

“He’s creating a new space for LGBT people … He’s saying it on the record and he’s being very clear. It’s not simply that he’s tolerating it — he’s supporting it,” Martin told CNN’s Christine Amanpour on Wednesday.

In the US, Bishop Thomas Tobin of Providence, Rhode Island, asked for more clarification, saying the Francis’ comments contradict the church’s teachings on same-sex unions.

“The Church cannot support the acceptance of objectively immoral relationships,” Thomas said in a statement. “Individuals with same-sex attraction are beloved children of God and must have their personal human rights and civil rights recognized and protected by law. However, the legalization of their civil unions, which seek to simulate holy matrimony, is not admissible.”

Ed Mechmann, director of public policy for the Archidiocese of New York, described the Pope’s comments as a serious mistake that can lead to a lot of confusion.

“In this case, I think we have to recognize that the Holy Father has plainly erred,”

Mechmann wrote in a blog post. “Catholics cannot promote the legalization of same-sex unions. But we also have to be clear that he isn’t changing the teaching of the Church on homosexuality or same-sex unions in any way.”

PAT SAYS

Francis is not supporting Christian or Catholic marriages for gay couples.

He is merely saying that such couples have the legal and civil right to have their relationship recognised in their country’s laws.

And most modern democracies give couples this right.

Personally, I have always believed that the Church should bless these unions.

Can a same sex marriage be sacramental? Yes it can.

“Wherever there is live, there is God”.

I have been blessing gay couples for over 30 years.

And now I can perform legal weddings for gay couples north and south of the Irish border.

Personally I am a bit uncomfortable with people calling themselves two “husbands”.

I am in a civil partnership since 2020.

I refer to my partner as my partner.

108 replies on “FRANCIS ENDORSES SAME SEX CIVIL UNIONS.”

Bp Pat, have you noticed the look and sheer professionalism and attention to detail of the Silverstream website and newsletters that belie their lack of ability to keep full and accurate financial records. They know exactly where all the loot is.

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Dearest Pat, I am blessed to be married to my husband (I am a man). Unlike yourself I insist on the title. At work when people try to be pc and ask about my partner I remind them that we are married: he is my husband. I am quite conservative that way.

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12:36 – Maybe people are just trying to be courteous when they refer to your partner. Maybe they don’t know he’s your husband until you tell them. Partner is a generic term these days, and using it doesn’t, I think, diminish or undermine other words for a relationship. Are you just being a little too sensitive ?

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No. These are people who know we were married, obviously I wouldn’t do that to someone who has just met me. Though I am glad to say it is working; one co worker said to me one day with a smile par.. husband! We fought hard for the right!

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You thought wrong: two husband’s/ two wives: hence ‘same – sex’ marriage.
We will always reply with grace & dignity to stupid comments.

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, I suspect I will please neither side of this discussion, but I feel I must speak the truth as I see it.
I must be the voice of those who are being forgotten in the debate
around the recent comments of Pope Francis concerning Civil Unions for our beloved Brothers and Sisters in the LGBTQ community.
I understand the significance of what a Bishop of Rome has said
for those Brothers and Sisters, and the hope it has given them.
Our Companionship of Jesus means we have hatred of all
injustice. All discrimination of whatever form, and towards whatever community. It would be totally wrong and not in keeping with our calling if we were to proclaim the injustice suffered by one community and turn a blind eye to the injustice suffered by another community. Silence is not an option in all such cases full stop.
Many people today, myself included, still look at the Church of Jorge Mario Bergoglio, and with honesty and integrity feel we can not stand with him, and legitimately question does the light remain in the church? Has it become the house of darkness? The house of Satan?
This is the voice of those who have suffered sexual abuse within the walls of the Holy Mother Church. Those of the Amazon who are still denied sacraments because married Priests are not allowed to answer the vocational shortage. Sisters are still discriminated against because they are not allowed to answer a God-given calling to the Diaconate, or Priesthood.
Those denied Holy Communion for wanting to be remarried, and having a second chance after their first marriage did not work out. Sometimes for reasons that were not their fault. And the list could go on! I want to be the voice for these people less their pain, suffering, and discrimination be forgotten amidst the words that Bergoglio spoke towards my very special LGBTQ Brothers and Sisters.
I myself walked past a Catholic Church this week and felt unable to enter into it due to my own treatment by a monastery. The lies told me excused by them simply saying they had changed their mind. Legitimate questions left unanswered. Exclusion from a retreat simply for asking for answers to particular questions after being told I have not got the vocation I have. Legitimate complaints and questions. The upset being made deeper by the silence of the local Bishop, and Papal Nuncio when I have attempted to raise these issues and concerns with them.
Many good, holy, and sincere people have still, and even within the Papacy of Pope Francis still concluded there is no place for them within the institutional church, and walked out the back door never to return. They have concluded the only way they can be themselves, or answer the God-given calling they have is outside the walls of the institutional church.
We should not forget their voice, and their pain and suffering however much hope has been given towards one community who I fully accept and acknowledge has suffered much discrimination and rejection within Holy Mother Church.
Another view and legitimate of what Pope Francis has said about supporting civil unions is as follows. That when all is said and done. When the dust has settled one section of God sons and daughters will still be unable to celebrate and receive the sacrament of marriage within the walls of H.M.C simply for loving the person God gave them to love.
In all human love when two people meet, fall in love, and want to commit their lives to each other it is the presence of Christ in each one of them that draws them together. They will still be unable to receive the sacrament of marriage because of the God-given gift of their sexuality.
Many people myself included simply can not accept this, and believe that where any form of love is present God is there. And it is spiritual and pastoral abuse. A mockery of the presence of Christ in those people that they can not receive the Sacrament of Marriage from a Roman Catholic Deacon or Priest.
While many are celebrating what has been said many for legitimate reasons question if H.M.C will ever truly change, or has the rot set in so much the only way for ” Francis rebuild my church ” is for it to be taken down brick by brick, and to start again?
It is a mistake when any organization is institutionally corrupt. Not fit for purpose, or decimating against people to put all your hope in the office of the person at the top however eloquent and agreeable he may sound. There are always many more fundamental questions and issues to be faced and resolved that reach its’ furthest corners.
I do not want to the voice of doom here, but what if in 18 months Pope Francis has gone to meet his maker, and there is a Pope Burke that returns H.M.C to much more conservative waters?
While I fully understand the hope my dear L.G.B.T.Q friends feel today, and I pray for the day when they can receive the sacrament of marriage within the walls of H.M.C I do not want these legitimate questions to be ignored. The pain and suffering of others who have been, and are still being discriminated against not to be heard and understood. The story of all those who have been so badly hurt, wounded, and let down by H.M. C not to continue to be told.

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5:07am!!

Well if you are a priest God help the poor people you are supposed to ministering to, I have never heard such drivel and heresy you certainly are not a Catholic. Conform to the teachings of Our Holy Mother The Church and repent and stop leading others into error before it’s too late for you and for those unfortunate to have you as their priest.

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5.07. Couples do not receive the Sacrament of marriage from. RC deacon or priest. The couple are the ministers of the sacrament, the cleric merely the witness.

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The usual suspects, clerics too gay for their own good, are saying “the pope was misunderstood, misquoted, misinterpreted.” Big ole’ queerbag Raymond Burke, for example, and other US butt pirates are calling the remarks “private opinion.”

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I wonder why the likes of Burke et al are so fixated on the sexual and relationship lives of other people, and want to marginalise, ostracise, and condemn those who live their lives somewhat differently and alternatively ? It is a strange phenomenon when people react so negatively to others and their lives, although I suppose the explanation is often quite simple – it is a form of distraction from aspects of their own lives or inclinations, a sort of displacement therapy for them. I suppose we should pity them as much as condemn them for their bigotry and judgmental attitudes and behaviour. However, they are dangerous, and can do great harm, especially given their elevated status in places like the Church. I am absolutely sure that in time information will emerge about the likes of Burke and his own behaviour and lifestyle. it is only a matter of time. Such vitriol about something that he evidently feels so strongly is a sure indication of his own self-hatred, and an indication of his own inclinations. That will out in behaviour sooner or later – in fact, I’m sure it already has. And that will become public knowledge at some point. Then, the likes of Cardinal Burke might be grateful for the generous and loving response from those of us who do live alternatively in our lives, relationships and sexuality. We can be a very forgiving bunch. Unlike his crowd so often.

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They are just evil queens, queer outlaws who don’t fit into normative ideas about what it means to be gay these days.

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10:29am

I think it’s the likes of you et al who are fixated on the sexual and relationship of other people, you’re never done going on about it. Thank God we still have a few truly Catholic Prelates like His Eminence Raymond Cardinal Burke wither you lot like it or not.

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There are none so “fixated” on the sexual and relationship lives of others as the commentators on this blog!!! None so blind as those who will not see.

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Are we really bothered ? Increasingly I believe so many of us just shrug when we hear pretty much anything that comes from the Church / Vatican / Pope / Bishops, be it seemingly more progressive stuff such as Francis is reported as saying or the traditionalist pushback that we are now hearing from the likes of Old Mother Burke. To be honest, it is largely irrelevant, increasingly so, to me and to so many others. We do not hang on every word of these people and order our lives according to their direction. We may listen courteously, as we listen to a variety of sources of information and direction, but in the end we make up our own minds. We no longer fear that if we come to a different conclusion for our lives, particularly with respect to how we conduct relationships, that we are putting ourselves in grave moral and eternal danger, or fear being isolated from our communities. These days I might read the headline, sigh, and go on to other things, rather than bother myself with trying to follow the tortuous and often illogical and impractical instructions I receive from the Church. I’ve given up listening to them to the extent that I let them rule me or worry me or concern me. Try it !

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@ 9:11: Or perhaps like me, just ignore the whole sheebang of religion and it’s convoluted rationale and edicts.
Try it. It works!
MMM

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You don’t ignore it, MMM, that’s the thing. You are never off the blog opining on internal Church matters.

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Wrong @1:48, to the extent that I ignore religion in same context as @9:11’s final comments, although I go further inasmuch as not allowing it, and its “edicts” to in any way affect or interfere with how I live my life.
But you are correct inasmuch as I certainly don’t ignore the opportunity to ridicule its pompous inconsistencies, irrelevance , harmful effects and in particular its abusive deceptive clerics.
And I rarely “opine on internal Church matters” (your words), for I don’t give a toss about the internal clerical politicking most Irish clergy commenting here seem to be obsessed with. (If that’s what you mean by “internal “.)
MMM

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More opining on religious matters by the MMM, the man who claims to ignore them 😂😂😂

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Yep, and a lot of the names that are appearing on it (Burke, Tobin, etc) are exactly that – homosexual hypocrites, of the worse kind, imposing burdens on people while not addressing their own dysfunctional issues.

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9:19 am
Bishop Buckley’s blog… “is about exposing the corruption, abuse and criminality in the Roman Catholic Church in Ireland and internationally.”

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Burke, Schneider, Tobin and Strickland and maybe one or two others. There are over 5,000 RC bishops at the moment. That speaks for itself.

If a bishop articulated similar hostility to Wojtyła or Ratzinger in their day as these do to Bergoglio, they would have been damned by the CDF. A read of Angela Hanley’s biography of Sean Fagan SM is informative – especially on the role of Charlie Brown.

They can count themselves lucky.

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+ Pat @ 10:53 – probably, yes. And he’s the one who got done for DUI just before he was translated to SF, in a car with this mother and a seminarian, whom he’d taken for dinner and imbibed too many cocktails. I guess the mother was the cover for him to be wining and dining the young seminarian. Trad, lace, young seminarians……classic !

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From times I have spent in the USA, I was astounded at how rigid and ultra orthodox were many of the clergy I met. There was little of the pastoral softness in them, just a hard edge about such things are marriage, divorce, abortion, sexuality, all those culture issues which bubble away in the USA. They really were scary, and not the kind of people that I would want to turn to for any kind of sensitivity or compassion. They are allowed to get away with it in the USA, which by and large they wouldn’t be able to do here in Ireland or the UK, where parishioners just don’t put up with that crap any more, and go elsewhere or tell them to shut up.

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I’m sure + Vin is watching carefully which way the wind blows on this one. He wouldn’t want to mess up his next plan for his life after his retirement, hopefully soon. He will be playing a waiting game before his enters the fray just so that he is on the winning side. He’s done that all his life. Look how he dumped the LGBTQ people in order to ensure that he got the red hat. Calculating, clinical, cynical, ambitious, vaunting self- interest in everything he does.

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The old queen, Damian Thompson, says: “… the Pope backs civil unions. Which he does. Explicitly.” So +Elsie will have to hold her tongue.

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I think Albania was a punishment posting to signal that the Vatican was not very pleased with what had been going on in Ireland during his time, much of it exposed by the blog – Rory, Puck, Maynooth etc, as well as the cataclysmic abuse scandal. Maybe the Philippines is bringing him back out of the cold. I wonder where they will send the Nigerian next ?

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We’ll agree to differ on that.
For me, he was a thoughtful man who recognized social change happening around him and thus questioned Church teaching on morality and sin.
Will we ever know who in the Irish hierarchy reported him to the CDF?

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Archbishop Cordileone of SF responds to the Pope’s comments about civil unions:

“In our bishops region’s audience with Pope Francis last January during our ad limina visit (the visit diocesan bishops make every five years to the Vatican), the topic of civil unions came up in conversation. The Holy Father clearly differentiated between a civil arrangement which accords mutual benefits to two people, and marriage. The former, he said, can in no way be equated to marriage, which remains unique.

“I would add that a civil union of this type (one which is not equated to marriage) should be as inclusive as possible, and not be restricted to two people of the same sex in a presumed sexual relationship. There is no reason, for example, why a brother and a sister, both of whom are unmarried and support each other, should not have access to these kinds of benefits. Marriage is unique because it is the only institution that connects children to their mothers and fathers, and therefore is presumed to be a sexual relationship. Indeed, the sexual relationship that marriage is presumed to involve is the only kind by which children are naturally made. The nature of marriage, the place of sex within a virtuous life, these great teachings of the Church come to us from God, are illuminated by reason, and do not change”

The stuff about civil unions being widened to those of separate sex, or even related persons, seem sane. But, notwithstanding this, Cordileone et al are still focussed on the loins and the genitals and sex. Everything is judged through that prism. Sick really. And most of us have long since gone beyond that.

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What a craziness that decisions and teaching about marriage, relationships, sexuality etc. are being made by men (only men !) who are supposed to be celibate, not in relationships, and often with repressed and dysfunctional psycho-sexual lives. So, Cordileone is able to tell us “these great teachings of the Church come to us from God, are illuminated by reason, and do not change”, whereas for the most part the majority of us think otherwise, and order our lives according to our own beliefs and standards. He needs to realise that his utterances are increasingly irrelevant to us, do not necessarily and automatically mirror the will of God, and are just one voice in the conversation. The sooner he and others of his ilk realise this the better. Then we can have a proper conversation about where we want to go and what we want to be.

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What only £222,000? Millions have allegedly gone bye-byes at Silverstream, along with most of the monks with it (allegedly).

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Isn’t it astounding, how the abbot emeritus of Dormition Abbey in Jerusalem, after years and years of being a Catholic and a Benedictine monk, can so easily and blithely switch jerseys and, quick as a flash, reinvent himself as an Anglican cleric?

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What other option was left open to him? I don’t know whether it’s the case or not but if Glenstal voted not to re-admit him what other option did he have?

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What about all the Anglican queers kicking their legs their height crossing over to Walsingham? The place has never been the same since.

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I remember reading a Benedictine monk who admitted that while in India he’d felt more comfortable reciting his Latin Office in a nearby Anglican cathedral because it exuded more Romanitas than the baroque Catholic Church.

Anyhow it’s nice to see Irish names associated with the old cathedrals. Now if they were to become associated with Orthodox churches …

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“The Church is sometimes misunderstood and considered lacking in compassion because she upholds God’s creative plan for marriage and the family: his plan for human love and the transmission of life.” St John Paul II

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4.08: In the early 80’s, a few years ordained, I remember many gay people calling to confession and discussing their awful (unnecessary) ‘shame’ and ‘guilt’ about their lives. My advice then was to reassure them of their dignity as God’s people and to never allow anyone to dehumanize them, ever, and to receive communion. That I believed was their entitlement. I became friendly with two or three gay couples and was inspired by their love for ome another. I was envious that they had found love. This experience gave me the courage to frequently speak about the bigotry, prejudice and homophobia against gay people and those who had painful sexual identity challenges. The church.myst and needs to rewrite a theology and spirituality of embracing people in a myriad if different relationships. We do not condone the extremes of behaviour in a particular gay culture but I do not have the right to definitively condemn any person who is gay and living a gay lifestyle. Since many clergy are gay it is hypocritical to deny welcome, love, support and compassion to all who wish to be part of our Church community. The deep damage done to gay people is almost unforgivable. All relevant change that is of CHRIST begins within each person’s heart. It’s where I begin in all my dealings with those whom I encounter. I make no distinctions.

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The Vatican II New Springtime in action (part 237).
From this Sunday, the entire city of Carlisle in Lancaster diocese will be one parish, served by a total of three priests. This is the bishop’s statement trying to put a good face on it:
Pastoral Message to the Clergy, Religious and Faithful of Carlisle. On the occasion of the creation of the new parish of Our Lady of Perpetual Help.1stNovember 2020. Solemnity of All Saints.
My dear people, on the occasion of my Episcopal ordination in April 2018 I included the following few words in the order of service:Individuals, families, businesses and Government Departments all know about having to do more with less.
In some ways, the Diocese of Lancaster is similarly placed, except that the Love and Grace of God know no bounds, hence our well-founded hope. Some may understand today in terms of change, but more truly it is about continuity. If and where change is needed it will come within the continuity of proclaiming and living exactly what Bishop Campbell’s nine years here have been about; ‘The Lord is risen indeed! Have no fear!’
You will all be aware of a significant change for the Catholic community in Carlisle; the city will, from the date of the Decree of Merger, be one parish. It will be served by your parish priest, Canon Ruscillo, assisted by Canon Loughran and Father Osman. The Religious Sisters of the Sacred Heart of Mary keep alive the witness of Religious life.
Our churches and schools will help to preservethe history of the previous parishes. That history is important. We gain strength and inspiration from the way our ancestors lived their Faith.
Our schools, with so many young people, can be understoodas the blossom of the Church, please God, going on to bear much fruit. I wish to thank you all for your positive and generous attitude to this new parish. It will take time to adjust to new circumstances. Prayer, patience and a positive spirit will help. What you are experiencing is something that has to happen throughout the Diocese. Bishop O’Donoghue saw it coming. Bishop Campbell made a start, particularly in Barrow and parts of Preston. We are following their lead.

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Bishop Campbell tried to put a block on the neocatechumenate in Preston. They ignored his instructions and look what has happened now! Elsie has brought the neocats in to Westminster and is going to back out to retirement leaving them in ascendancy. What a legacy!!!

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Bishop Pat, might you be treating us to a Mount Mellary update in tomorrow’s blog? You see the clocks are going back and I’ll be able to stay up extra late to have a good read of it!

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Mostly fat sausages… and a little pudding – bacon is nice too! Your kind of breakfast Pat!! And mine…And let us not forget to pray for our country in this awful pandemic. Please.

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5:44 pm

Don’t be such a goose, Bella. The matter is in the public domain.
I have no doubt the Nunc knows a version of the story.
Putting it on the record might make life more uncomfortable for all concerned.

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Bishop Pat, I don’t want to be bothering you on a long weekend and I know you will read this and turn your eyes to heaven but would you PLEASE consider writing a letter to the Nuncio to inform him about Silverstream and Mount Mellary so he will make a note of it and inform relevant authorities in Rome. He probably won’t reply but he can always say he didn’t read this blog and the Vatican won’t be able to say that it was not informed. Even if he doesn’t reply he can’t say he didn’t know.

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Is that Jim, the gay Irishman living in Scotland and getting enough sex, thank you, back on suggesting writing letters to nuncios? ✉️📧📨📩📫📪📬📭📮✏️✒️🖋️🖊️📝🗑️

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Your reply to me without knowing a single thing about me, my situation, or those I minister to after being abused by Holy Mother Church. Your response to legitimate issues that people face today proves why there is no point in any of them telling anyone in H.M.C what has happened to them .There is no point them seeking to find a way forward with H.M.C because they will only be met with a hostile response when people like you should be on your knees asking for forgiveness. They should on every occasion go outside H.M.C to tell people what has happened to them, and never return to the church again having more respect for the dignity they have as a son or daughter of God.

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A Reply to Fr? Richard
If anyone should be on their knee’s asking for forgiveness it should be you. We expect our priests to be loyal to Church teaching and that was not what you were saying. It’s not your personal belief’s but the constant teaching of the Church which as a priest you are duty bound to impart. I will be on my knees praying that Almighty God forgives you for leading people astray.

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8:11 pm

Fr. Richard, I think you might be replying to 11:17 am. If so, the comment at 11:17am
is from Bella. Bella is still stuck somewhere between the Council of Trent and Vatican 1.
I hope that explains to some extent such a comment. I liked you contributions.
I wish you well in your ministry.

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@8:43pm

I knew you would, birds of a feather stick together no wonder the Church is in the state it is now with the likes of you and Fr? Dick. But we have hope despite people like you lot The Church Triumphant will return

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9:43 pm
Bella, I am not a bird, I don’t have feathers and I am not a member of the LGBTQIA community. The Gospel is all about Charity, Bella. The Church triumphant is in heaven,
not on earth.

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