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Why would a priest or seminarian not report sexual harassment by a superior?

James Martin

**** I’D LIKE READERS TO READ THE PIECE BELOW WITH THE SILVETSTREAM WHISTLEBLOWER IN MIND.

James Martin, S.J.

Why would Catholic priests and seminarians be so reluctant to report allegations of sexual harassment or abuse from bishops, priests or religious superiors? This question has been raised repeatedly in the wake of the allegations against Theodore McCarrick, the former archbishop of Washington, D.C., who on resigned from the College of Cardinals. McCarrick is accused of abusing a minor as well as sexually harassing seminarians and young priests.

Based on my own experiences and many conversations with clergy and members of religious orders over the years, let me suggest six interrelated reasons for this reluctance.

First, there is a fear of being labeled as a “complainer” or “troublemaker” by others in the diocese or religious order. Sometimes simply raising concerns about the actions of a person in power (a bishop, seminary rector, religious superior, teacher or older priest), let alone reporting actual abuse or harassment, is enough to lead some in the institution to critique or even attack a person for “rocking the boat.”

There is a reflexive desire to protect the reputation of the institution to which one belongs.

The most basic reason is a desire to avoid “scandal” in an institution to which people have committed themselves and in which they take great pride. (This is the case not only in the Catholic Church but in other religious organizations as well as secular organizations that have faced abuse cases, for example, Penn State.)

Any case of abuse and harassment, particularly when made public, worsens the reputation of the church, diocese, seminary or religious order and diminishes a person’s positive feelings about belonging to the institution. There is, therefore, a reflexive desire to protect the reputation of the institution to which one belongs. This reflex may be intensified in a person in any official capacity, who, in a sense, represents the institution to the outside world. Those in authority are therefore sometimes especially resistant to hearing bad news about the institution.

The victim may be told, “Just stay away from him.” Or, more simply, “Get over it.”

But there is a simpler reason for the reluctance among some to report abuse or harassment: They understand that for those in charge, it will mean more work—of the most difficult kind. If it is a crime, it means reporting the priest’s actions to civic authorities; if it is inappropriate (but not criminal) behavior, it still means doing many tasks that few people want to undertake, including confronting the abuser or harasser and perhaps removing him from active ministry.

All of this may lead to tacit feelings of “They will hate hearing this” among those who are harassed or abused.

Second, there is a fear of being told not to “take things so seriously.” Especially if the harassment has been continuing for years and is widely “known,” as it apparently was in the case of Theodore McCarrick, others who have been harassed or superiors who have known about it may wave it away or downplay it as something that “just happens.” Or the victim may be told, “Just stay away from him.” Or, more simply, “Get over it.”

Third, there is a fear of being dismissed when one reports it. Many years ago as a young Jesuit, I reported an incident of my being groped. (He had done this before to others.) One of my superiors responded, “I’m not hearing this from anyone else.” I told him, “You’re hearing it from me.” The priest in question was not removed from active ministry for several years.

Fourth, there is a fear of hostility from people with whom you work or, in some cases, live with. This is essential for people unfamiliar with the Catholic world of diocesan clergy and religious orders to understand. Unlike workplace harassment of the sort reported by those in #MeToo movement, priests and religious may not only work with but live with the people they are accusing. (In the case of a monastery, it might be someone you will live with your entire life: Monks take vows of “stability.”) Sometimes, victims of harassment or abuse also work and live with the religious authorities responsible for taking action—in a seminary, rectory, chancery or religious community.

Living under the same roof with your harasser or breaking bread with the person you are asking to confront the harassment can be tremendously stressful. Thus, the person being harassed may say to himself (or herself in the case of women religious), “It’s not worth it.”

Fifth, there is a fear of misplaced sympathy for the abuser or harasser. One may hear comments like this: “He’s done so much good work. Why are you focusing on this one thing?” Or: “This happened years ago. He’s an old man now and not doing anyone any harm. Why are you putting him through this?” Many abusers or harassers are narcissists and skilled at shifting the focus from the abuse or harassment they committed to how difficult their lives are in the wake of dealing with lawsuits or their removal from ministry. In other words: “Poor Father So-and-So.”

Sixth, there is a fear of the reaction from others who did not report the abuse or harassment in the past. Other priests, seminarians or religious who have been harassed (or even abused) and who have not spoken up may feel an intense mix of emotions that sometimes translates into anger at the one now reporting. (As psychologists tell us, that kind of anger is more easily directed outward than inward.) That is, if other priests, seminarians or religious have been abused or harassed, the one who reports it, or even speaks about it, raises uncomfortable questions about patterns of non-reporting.

Taken together, it is easy to see why some seminarians, priests and members of religious orders may be reluctant to come forward about harassment or even abuse at the hands of their diocesan or religious superiors, or other clerics in power. Most of this, as we see, is based on fear—fear within the institution and fear within the person.

Today, I am glad that many are beginning overcome that fear out of love for the church. Because, as the New Testament reminds us, perfect love drives out fear.

PAT SAYS

In certain ways younger priests, seminarians and monks can be vulnerable adults.

If the person using or abusing you is older or in a position of esteem or power over you.

I believe the Silverstream whistle blower has suffered a great injustice from:

Mark Kirby.

Brother Elijah

Tom Dennis Deenihan.

That injustice must be out right.

194 replies on “Why would a priest or seminarian not report sexual harassment by a superior?”

I think James Martin SJ was speaking of J Glenn Murray SJ.
J Glenn (known as Gay Glenn Murray by many students) made a pass at me when he was a guest lecturer here in England in 2011.

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Once Mr Hourigan’s lawyer activates things from Rome you will read that a process has been activated in the daily papers. The papers may not mention against whom the allegation(s) have been made. However, Church law is not like Civil law so it really doesn’t matter who is discussing the matter online.

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It’s not easy as a whistle-blower as you would get a lot of blow backs at your direction. It’s designed to put whistle blower off with lot of pressure coming from rcc with lot of power and money.
Its best for silverstream whistle blower to walk away from silverstream /kirby /Bishop of meath( whole shebang) and make a protected disclosure without any repercussions.
It seems to me that Kirby might have mental illness although I could be wrong there. But looking at the photo above, it doesn’t bode well re him. I don’t think Bishop of Meath did a due diligence on Kirby and the whole works. Also problematic age limit of 35 years old is questionable as I never heard it before. People joined priesthood at late age from 40 ls to 60’s but not silverstream. Think Burke made fool of himself re visiting silverstream when it all came out later re kirby and sexual harassment. Kirby book was acclaimed all over the Catholic world even Viganio and burke. Read somewhere that one poster

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11.13 Most Religious Orders have this under 35 and solvent however Dioceses as you say take people with life experience even up to 60.
One worry is the current Bishops in a few dioceses are young so it is important that anything not correct comes out now and few Bishops are under the spotlight.
Sadly i think in fairness to the Papal Nuncio he is in shock at what the Irish Church is really like and as Rome for help and a full enquiry into Ireland.
Archbishop Eamon has really been a let down okay Chairman but a weak Chairman and instead of holding up Dromore he should incorporate it to his own Archdiocese or to Down and Connor.

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10:58
Name the religious orders and congregations with an age limit of 35.

Such a practice is discredited today when no group can afford to ignore its sexual overtones and implications, i.e. its employment by people seeking to groom and exploit.

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SSPX, FSSP, Cong Orats to name but three. Late vocation is a post-Vatican II phenomenon. You need only look at the Maynooth classpieces to see that.

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@11:19
You are wrong. It’s actually the other way round and orders are more picky about age now they are aged.
I googled ‘age entry monastic life’ and the first entry washttps://mountmichael.org/vocations/faqs/

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11.26, SSPX, FSSP are not religious orders or congregations.

Oratorians do not apply 35 year age-limit.

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Pluscarden gives an age range of 20 to 35. The fact you haven’t heard of it doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist! The real reason given is that older people won’t be adaptable.
You may wish to be cynical and see this as older people will have a more attuned ear to bullshit.

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Kirby and Silverstream should be all the warning you require, at 11:35, to know what those implementing a 35 year age limit are at.

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They’d make an exception if an older hunk turned up, a muscle-daddy, for example, the rulebook would chucked straight out the window.

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I think he should continue with these masses and then natural selection will take care of him and anyone fool enough to listen to him.

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In the overwhelming majority of cases, covid is a disease of those in nursing homes who were already at death’s door. The rest of us can and should go about our business. We should not destroy our economy, wreck educational opportunities, increase poverty, homelessness, suicides, and delay treatments for people with cancer to give a few more months bed-ridden existence to 90 years living awful lives in nursing homes.

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11.16: what a sad lufe you have…worried about labels…YOU shithead…. you shallow, supercilious thick. I get my garments in Pennys and they’re fab! Try them.

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1:42, lovely christian language from you. it would appear that both you and the person at 11:16 are cut from the same cloth. You both are devoid of christian and proper behaviour. God love you both. you come across as jealous and angry.

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Any new tapes, records or discs to play? This blog is becoming pretty much boring and ridiculously repetitive!
Watched your online Mass and must say did enjoy, would suit you better and be more constructive as people really only see the narrative and vulgar side of you.
Just saying but do know your ignorance and arrogance do make you blind as to what a cleric should do best.

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First, there is a fear of being labeled as a “complainer” or “troublemaker” by others in the diocese or religious order.
IF it involves kids…tough. Thats the price until system changes.
Sometimes simply raising concerns about the actions of a person in power (a bishop, seminary rector, religious superior, teacher or older priest), let alone reporting actual abuse or harassment, is enough to lead some in the institution to critique or even attack a person for “rocking the boat.”
Yep..TOUGH
There is a reflexive desire to protect the reputation of the institution to which one belongs.
BUT THIS INSTITUTION IS MEANT TO FOLLOW CHRIST AND IF THERE IS DYSFUNCTION..IT HAS TO BE CHANGED.
The most basic reason is a desire to avoid “scandal” in an institution to which people have committed themselves and in which they take great pride. (This is the case not only in the Catholic Church but in other religious organizations as well as secular organizations that have faced abuse cases, for example, Penn State.)
THEY COMMITTED THEMSELVES TO SERVING CHRIST FOREMOST AND AND THOSE PRIORITIES SHOULD BE PARAMOUNT
Any case of abuse and harassment, particularly when made public, worsens the reputation of the church, diocese, seminary or religious order and diminishes a person’s positive feelings about belonging to the institution. There is, therefore, a reflexive desire to protect the reputation of the institution to which one belongs. This reflex may be intensified in a person in any official capacity, who, in a sense, represents the institution to the outside world. Those in authority are therefore sometimes especially resistant to hearing bad news about the institution.
The victim may be told, “Just stay away from him.” Or, more simply, “Get over it.”
WHICH IS WHY THE FOCUS IS OFF BASE.
But there is a simpler reason for the reluctance among some to report abuse or harassment: They understand that for those in charge, it will mean more work—of the most difficult kind. If it is a crime, it means reporting the priest’s actions to civic authorities; if it is inappropriate (but not criminal) behavior, it still means doing many tasks that few people want to undertake, including confronting the abuser or harasser and perhaps removing him from active ministry. TOUGH
All of this may lead to tacit feelings of “They will hate hearing this” among those who are harassed or abused.
Second, there is a fear of being told not to “take things so seriously.” Especially if the harassment has been continuing for years and is widely “known,” as it apparently was in the case of Theodore McCarrick, others who have been harassed or superiors who have known about it may wave it away or downplay it as something that “just happens.” Or the victim may be told, “Just stay away from him.” Or, more simply, “Get over it.”
AGAIN IGNORANCE OF NEEDS OF VICTIM.
Third, there is a fear of being dismissed when one reports it. Many years ago as a young Jesuit, I reported an incident of my being groped. (He had done this before to others.) One of my superiors responded, “I’m not hearing this from anyone else.” I told him, “You’re hearing it from me.” The priest in question was not removed from active ministry for several years.
LUCKY HE WAS AT ALL
Fourth, there is a fear of hostility from people with whom you work or, in some cases, live with. This is essential for people unfamiliar with the Catholic world of diocesan clergy and religious orders to understand. Unlike workplace harassment of the sort reported by those in #MeToo movement, priests and religious may not only work with but live with the people they are accusing. (In the case of a monastery, it might be someone you will live with your entire life: Monks take vows of “stability.”) Sometimes, victims of harassment or abuse also work and live with the religious authorities responsible for taking action—in a seminary, rectory, chancery or religious community.
YES AND IF ITS TOO TOXIC THEY SHOULD LEAVE THE ENVIRONMENT.
Living under the same roof with your harasser or breaking bread with the person you are asking to confront the harassment can be tremendously stressful. Thus, the person being harassed may say to himself (or herself in the case of women religious), “It’s not worth it.”
YET IT IS BECAUSE AS WE HAVE SEEN OTHERS GET HURT. UNACCEPTABLE REASONING 

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Very strange goings-on at one of one of the supposed top monastery in the world in Currie en Chareause in France. While not physical abuse I can not believe how they have behaved towards a dear priest know. It is certainly pastoral, and spiritual abuse, and they are trying to cover up what has gone on saying it is a misunderstanding in communication.

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Because nothing will be done! Look at the Silverstream whistleblower, he was chucked out and a cover up operation mounted to protect his abuser.

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Time and time again, we see the victimisation of the whistle-blower. This is clearly the case in Silverstream. However, such examples are not confined to the Roman Catholic Church, similar patterns of behaviour are seen in the Church of England, the Jehovah’s Witnesses and other faith-based groups. It is also the case in the corporate world.
One needs tremendous moral courage to be a whistle-blower. The best example that I know of is that of Dr. Stephen Bolsin, who became a whistle-blower when he was concerned about high rates of mortality following cardiac procedures among infants at Bristol Royal Infirmary. Due to the fall-out, Bolsin was unable to obtain employment in the UK, so he had to relocate with his family to Australia. Eventually, Dr. Bolsin was vindicated by Parliament. But, Bolsin paid a very high price.
If you wear a ring and a mitre along with a pectoral cross — then you have a get out of jail free card; but, if you are a priest, you will be facing all sorts of backlash including the weaponisation of your stipend, unjustifiable restrictions on your priestly ministry, the threat of dismissal/laicisation if you co-operate with civil authorities because you have been “disobedient”, and you will be portrayed as the worst possible kind of troublemaker.
I have been told that if you have a bishop who is particularly pernicious, he will insist that a priest will be sent for an independent evaluation. If the priest refuses to go — he is categorised as being disobedient, and the matter will be referred to the Congregation for the Clergy, and the the priest will be dismissed for disobedience.
However, if you then act in good faith and exercise obedience in accordance with your vows made at priestly ordination – then the so-called “independent” psychology/psychiatrist will identify certain personality traits that make you unsuitable for ministry; so the next time you meet face-to-face with your bishop, you will be invited to voluntarily petition for dispensation or have the option of having laicisation forced upon you, because in certain matters where the “reputation” of the church is at stake, the Dicastery will always acquiesce to the will of the Ordinary.
Then, when allegations of legitimate misconduct made against the likes of Richard Purcell, they are ignored with alacrity. And, then you have Abbot Brendan Coffey in Glenstal seeking a statement that is exculpatory of Purcell from the whistle-blower in an egregious abuse of his delegated authority. Of course, more questions can be legitimately asked of Abbot Brendan and what he knew about Gregory Collins.
I happen to disagree with James Martin on virtually everything, however, he is absolutely correct in his analysis about whistle-blowing is incisive and unfortunately, accurate.

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9.24: Hooligan, which encyclical or Wikipedia or psychology journal or clinical research have you used in this comment? Go back to sleep or clean out the turf shed….away with you, the new tyrannical Magna…

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Robert as an Employee of the Church I used to think this is going somewhere and after 9.24 I think really you have lost the plot and in a Church of the 90’s at least move on 20 years and into the future.
Wearing a mitre and a pectoral cross or ring saves NO one and that is a fact under this Pontificate but Robert it all goes down to allegations standing up in court in Canon Law either as a Bishop, Diocesan Clergy or Religious sadly you miss that.
There is no way I can convince you but look at the last Papal Nuncio sent to Albania thankfully he has settled down and got a promotion in the ranks.
This does now seem like you want to be Judge and Jury and that does not work leave it to our Canonical process and we will see if your versions stands up.
Finally I do not know a Solicitor, QC who would place most of their evidence on a public forum as an old saying you never tell the right hand what the left hand is doing.

PS instead of wasting all your money on Legal people and IF needed making Dioceses and Orders waste money on Legal people when we would rather give it to the Poor and Hungry

Thought of the day think of the words of Saint Francis of Assisi

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Illiterate gay Irishman living in Scotland and getting plenty of sex when not writing to Nuncios, bishops and mothers superior alert.

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11.17: A very wise, sensible comment and observation. Hourigan cannot do anything unless someone takes a personal defamation law suit against him. They would win. Hourigan knows or should know that if you intend to pursue a case civilly, you keep your mouth shut and say nothing in the public domain. No barrister would touch Hourigan after his despicable behaviour as judge, jury and executioner. He’s playing games. He’s a spent flush. All huffing, poofting and puffing. A moral coward behind a facade of “noble integrity”. May his Cistercian forebears, if they ever existed, pulp him to pieces with hellish nightmares. He will be humiliated. With the disdain he has for the Church, why doesn’t he join the Larne Oratory? He’s at least have two friends, Pat and his lovely partner to soothe his wounded sensitivities…

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I see from The Journal that a Cavan Parish Priest is leading from the front! Fair play to him, that’s the sort of leadership I would have expected from the super parish priest of Mullagh & Cross.

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Anybody any news / insights in to the meeting of the bishops of E & W these last few days following the IICSA report and criticism of Vincent ? I know what they want us to hear, namely that they are all seemingly backing Vincent, but is that really what is happening ? Surely there has to be some reservations amongst them about him blithely and cynically carrying on – as if he were indispensable ? One thing that I have come to realise more clearly is that in the matter of safeguarding there is not a national oversight even within the church in E & W itself that deals with these issues and ensures that they are followed. Each diocese appears to be its own little empire and the bishop like a medieval lord doing his own thing ! I suppose I shouldn’t be surprised at this episcopal and clerical culture of exceptionalism. How long have they had, decades, to get themselves sorted out, and it is only just now that they are beginning to think about it ? Anyhow, I reckon that they will not all be singing from the same hymn sheet about the way forward or about Vincent’s future. Perhaps people have some insights ?

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The bishops of England and Wales are scared shitless by + Nichols. He rules the roost, with cold, calculating power. They won’t stand up to him. They would rather wait until he breathes his last. Vin is a bully, not in the Priti Patel sort of way, but he has his ways of making people do what he wants irrespective, and there is a price to be paid if you put up any resistance. Remember, clergy, bishops, anybody who works for the Church is subjected to a medieval patronage system, where you basically have no rights or entitlement, other than the patronage of the likes of Vincent. If you get on the wrong side of him, you won’t go far or get much. That’s why they are keeping on side. Pure self-interest. I fail to understand why grown men allow themselves to be entrapped by such a system.

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Certainly NOT True all employee’s are protected by Law and as for Clergy they have a right to Rome to Congregation of Clergy that is why in the UK we have so many on C/o or Sabbaticals.
Vinnie only has say in his own Archdioceses as the Church is set up that each Bishop is responsible for their own Dioceses and then straight to Rome.
Archbishops and cardinal is really only titles.
Canon Law protects Bishops, Clergy and Religious.
Civil Law protects employees and more and more employees now due to lack of Clergy.
Admin, Accounts, Facilities Officers, Trades People, HR and PR to name a few departments and even have Trade Unions

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10.42am

There are ways to stand up to Nicholas, make life tough to him and demand accountability, make life difficult for him by reporting him above him, stop the money going to him, Stand up to a bully like himself and report him if bullying arises again. Although there is a price to be paid very often on the whistle-blower.

Bullying is unacceptable, period. He should be stripped of Bishop re UK report I forgot name.

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11.31 is desperately out of touch about the nature of Archbishops. A number of us have seen a metropolitan insult a suffragan; and we have seen a metropolitan fail, for years, to act constructively in his province when uniquely able.
On top of that, the movements which archdioceses control are not subject to any financial oversight nor pastoral duty of care.

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The safeguarding is England and Wales wide.
Nicholls hopefully will be gone by next year as some Bishops were not happy at all but they will put on a united front.
The New Papal Nuncio took part for the first time and was not impressed.
However the Clergy and Lay Faithful have had very little to say but that likely down to Vinnie’s falsely spin he put out.
Covid has maybe saved him due to lack of publicity and the media mostly on Covid.

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@11:23 – I do hope you are right about some bishops not being happy with the situation and with Vin, as well as the nuncio not being too impressed with the whole lot of them. I do have a real sense that we do not have quality in our bishops. Perhaps that’s a reflection of the fact that quality men are not coming forward, and have not done so for a long time, for the priesthood, and the pool of talent is pretty limited from which bishops and leaders are nowchosen. By and large, the bishops and priests I know underwhelm, and most of them would not survive at any decent level in the world in which I work and live.

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Several sad things I have noticed around the Safeguarding scene and related trends are as follows.
Caring and believing pastors used to join in safeguarding responsibly (a few still do). This was part of pastoring. However this is mostly seen as having been outsourced. Next, relating to parishioners is done by COOs which is more outsourcing. Then shots are called by Trustees who typically have two other jobs, in state administration (board hoppers), that’s more outsourcing.
At the same time safeguarding has been reduced in scope to routine prior or periodic background checks. A Safeguarding operative doesn’t have training in the tasks once done by better priests and / or believing laypeople. Now obviously organisational things evolve.
What if there is a career operative, who just for example used to be a policeman, and is looking to join a national quango soon, and the actual scenes he is being told about are invariably complicated, with the perpetrators absent and / or laughing up their sleeves from safety, and a decent but powerless bishop not needing blame, and neither do “complainants” need accusing of blaming them when they are not.
Such an operative ought to sometimes try to involve more colleagues, then we can be realistic and assured. What I am saying is that such an operative should see themselves as on our side and not in a superior position but just as outmanoevred as we were and the better bishops were.
A case I knew of was (it turned out) widely known by large numbers of people none of whom acknowledged that I knew what I knew (dividing and isolating witnesses preventing free mutual debriefing), and it included patterns of theft designed to be complicated for police / charity regulators to follow up, neglect leading to death, salacious talk, child endangerment, and arm twisting between dioceses.
Not only Bangor has “Bangor monks” and while I have no more wish to endanger some others than they have to endanger me, we have to digest what we have seen on our own. At the end of the day, whom we can’t show up we can’t show up, and I’m talking about things less than rape but typically a serious accumulation of abusive things. Child endangerment has probably gone out of fashion temporarily; but the rest haven’t.
If persons other than of bishop rank have been blackmailing the bishops of Meath / Killaloe / Dublin etc, these bishops need to talk about it, however complicit they have made themselves, otherwise the effects of this will drag on for 50 years. Bishops’ conferences ought to allow “unsigned minority reports”.

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“That injustice must be out right.”

Do you mean redress, Bp Pat, a suitable solatium in the form of an apology and compensation?

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Pat have you made more inquires into Kevin Connolly and his network. Pat don’t be scared of him and his flamboyant ego

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9.51: Hourigan is almost there. And I too believe he will have a mighty fall. Hurrahhhhhh……😁😁😁😁😂🤣😃😃😅😁😁👹👹👹👹….smart ass Hoop La.

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Legal Eagle…at 9.51: Brilliant….but one problem..Looks like the remains of a woman…Do we not know Hourigan’s true sex?? 👵👵👵👵👩👩👩👩👧👧👧👧🌷🌷☠☠☠☠☠☠☻☻..

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The offer-it-up mentality among Romanists. It’s highly convenient for abusers. This is why some of the abused keep mum: give the abuse t’ Jesus to win souls. That pious-sounding claptrap.

Give me a broom wide enough and I’ll sweep the planet of them.

Just a thought, like. 🙄

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@6:24 pm
I’m very surprised to read such a comment from a Harrington Rd, groupie!
What do you mean,Bella?
By the way, I’m not, Patsy.

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Bishop Pat once again you “Think” however bring the proof and they will be removed and everyone can see that action does get taking.
Mark Kirby., Brother Elijah, Tom Dennis Deenihan.
Here is a picture of what the accused goes through at the Vatican.
So lets get them there more so Bishops. Abbots and Superiors.

https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/vatican-abuse-trial-priest-accused-of-cover-up-says-he-knew-nothing-87855?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+catholicnewsagency%2Fdailynews-vatican+%28CNA+Daily+News+-+Vatican%29

Be assured the Catholic Church in 2020 does not want them and most likely never did ut sadly it goes down to proof and week leadership.

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10:51 am – They ignore evidence, they pay the so-called “best” barristers to silence us victims!
Look at the news, read the just published IICSA report x

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8:08 pm
Polly, put the kettle on,please! Bella’s, about to boil !!!
YOU, tell me, precisely, what you mean by ‘offering you up.’
And, you, claiming to be – a Harrington Rd, groupie!!!
With, your, Eviva Maria !!!

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12.01
Oddly enough, a gay man I know, and a patron of the Kremlin (Belfast’s gay nightclub), himself said that gays were interested in only one thing: sex. I think he had become a bit disillusioned with the gay scene at this point; perhaps this brought on such cynicism. Then again, maybe his comment was not too far off the mark.
But isn’t the same for heteros? Predatory sexual behaviour? We are, after all, sexual beings. It’s the Romanists who, on the face of it, make a dark issue of sex. In fact, it’s Christians in general. Paul the Apostle, himself a gay man (though deeply repressed) has much to answer for over sexual neurosis throughout historical Christendom. 😀

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Gays have monthaverseries. Yes, they really do celebrate being together for two or three months, which is an achievement in gay circles. Most are not in relationships. Such relationships as do exist rarely last beyond a year and infidelity is an accepted universal norm.
There isn’t a straight version of Grindr, Fabguys, Blue, Scuff, Silverdaddies etc, etc, etc, which are purely for casual gay sex hookups. Straight dating sites are chiefly about starting a relationship.

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9.31
Seriously?
If you’re telling the truth, it failed, I suspect, because straight men do not have to use apps to identify female heteros…for an obvious reason.
As for gay men seeking other gay men, there are no distinquishing physical characteristics, so I suppose the Grinr app is one of the few places they can go where they can be reasonably sure (though not absolutely so, since, apparently, some straight men create fake profiles for one reason or another) of meeting other gay men.

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Until the Romanists stop sponging off others and become independent of the episcopate through salaried employment and home ownership/rental, there will continue the dark practice of concealing evil within the vile institution they willingly serve over Christ.
This betrayal of Jesus should, in itself, be obvious as the fundamental flaw, and sin, in Romanism, but such is the vanity and the drive for self-aggrandisement among Romanist priests that practically all of them wilfully refuse to acknowledge the gross discordancy between promising or vowing to serve a bishop while professing to serve Jesus Christ. It is this discordancy, along with consequential (and morally compromised) dependance on bishops that creates, facilitates, and maintains this practice in the Church ; indeed, the discordancy makes the practice impossible to dissolve without first dismantling the entire hierarchical apparatus of institutional Romanism.
According to Joshua, the walls of Jericho fell only after considerable agitation. The walls of Romanism are no different : they are as resistant as those of Jericho. But they are not impenetrable.
Change is afoot, and change will continue. And it will dismantle the evil bastion of Romanism, stone by stone.
Isn’t it wonderful?! 👏😀

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Dismantling Romanism, …..and Religion?
Magna: Those I mentioned in my comment at 9:43 this morning in response to you (prev. blog on The Main Players) do a superb job in dismantling the basis for any sensible belief in religion and its associated Gods and clerics. So they’d have a field day if just focussing on the “Romanist lot.”
Yes, it’s wonderful!
MMM

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1.01pm: Has Pat bribed you to return? Just two days ago you were in tears because you disliked the direction of the blog with its repetitiveness and imbicilic crap, yet you come back today to delight on childish crap from Magna…repeat, deranged ugliness and hate inciting rhetoric. Do you really agree with this incitement? I am very disappointed with you…

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We are supposed to pretend it’s not Magna.
MMM is even more tense and irritable than usual because the pubs are shut (thanks, Sinn Fein) and he likes a pint of plain.

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Hah! But at leasr@ 1:22 I’ve given you something to think about, if you’re capable 🤔
MMM

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Why does OP Fr John Walsh’s pic feature on Maynooth classportrait with Dom Richard OCSO?
Why does OP Fr David Barrins’ pic not appear on a Maynooth portrait?

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Perhaps because the decision to be on the classpiece is a personal one. Some people choose not to be on it. They are organised by the student year group not the college.

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You are obsessed with this. It has already been explained that David Barrins was not a seminarian in Maynooth. He may have attended classes or courses, and even taken a degree, but he was not part of the seminary student body. Hence he is not on the ordination classpiece. If he was numbered among the students of the seminary (as opposed to a religious who visits daily to take courses, in the same way as a lay student) he would be on the clericus database. It is basically a digital version of the seminary lists in the kalendarium. You will not find him https://clericus.ie/people

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5.39
Fr David Barrins OP was a Maynooth seminarian for the Diocese of Achonry.
Fr John Walsh OP was a Maynooth seminarian for the Diocese of Ferns.
Dom Richard Purcell OCSO?

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The comment about complaining about being groped but the groper not being removed from religious life for several years is interesting.
The fallout from the superiors lack of action would be knowing you are in a community with a man who carries out sexual assault with impunity. That alone is enough to ensure only the already compromised or the self doubting survive formation. Literally nobody should ever stay in that environment.
Jesuit life is relatively loose knit but in a monastery you would be continually cheek by jowel with your abuser.
This would also guarantee people who genuinely don’t give a shit about their religion are the ones who stay, and the cycle continues.
I am much older but find millennials have refreshing attitudes and won’t take this shit. Unless superiors get on top of this the difficulty getting millennials with very different attitudes, to stay, will cause the death of many communities.
Seriously wtf was he playing at, staying in religious life after getting groped and his complaint ignored?

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Is there an allowed procedure for monks to laify themselves? What if they were compelled to leave all their wealth as “dowry”?

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Yes, you spend a period outside called exclaustration and apply to be released from your vows.
The days of monasteries of women ensuring they got a certain class of gel by requiring a dowry for choir nuns are long gone. At the end of the nineteenth century the dowry at Stanbrook was£1,000. If you didn’t have that sort of money you became a lay sister and did the heavy work.

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Tea for 2000 and 2000 for tea.
Its turning into a cup n saucer job like everything else. Tap tap tap. Does the dog need dentures hi

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12:31 PM

Good Afternoon-How- Hi Fly.
Begorra fly tea for 2 could cause probs leadin to an egg and spoon.
A dog without dentures has little bark and no bite.
I’m down in castletownbare heaven still lookin for Glenstale.
Van parked on pier. Two notes.
On call-gone fishin. Cover all bases.
Paddling canoe heading up north wearing a flipper suit.
Fungi gone missin. Say nathin. Not too fat off Dingle bay. Might meet Mandy.
Hopin Hurricane Hourigan doesn’t hit. I’ll be sunk.
Anyways sinkin sunk or bunched…
May The Force Be With You.+
Bye Bye Fly Hi.

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Anybody an Elvis fan?
Just chilling with the cats while listening to music. It’s freezing outside and it feels like a Sunday.

Anybody have any tunes they like? Please do post x

Return to Sender – Elvis Presleyhttps://youtu.be/PU5xxh5UX4U

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Whistle-blower in silverstream should make a ‘ protected’ disclosure and go somewhere safe where no or less Catholic say a protestant area. It’s not easy becoming a whistle blower as there must be some support for him to continue. Make sure he write it down everything in print and signed, also and a make a copy of it to someone he trusts. I recall when I was testifying to government here re institutional abuse, I was watched, email hacked in at one point along with mobile bugged at one point along my case delayed for good period. This was designed to put pressure on myself. Its not nice but it’s a huge price paid for blowing the whistle. Even now I don’t trust rcc ever as they can’t be trusted. They are a wolf in sheep clothing. Stop giving them money in order to change their behaviour especially older people and their wills. Heard one or two stories re same.

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I really don’t understand why Fr Whistleblower left the true church for the Vatican II cult although in its faux Trentish form. I trust that he is now safe in a Greek monastery on a lovely island rightly and duly praising the All-Holy Trinity and drinking a bit of ouzo and eating freshly caught fish.

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12.36: St. Paul a gay man…tell us more. Where’s th evidence apart from the religious and cultural society he lived in. We’re we to practice his admonitions for less self indulgence, sexual and otherwise, we’d be more responsible in our sexual adventures… I believe it when you say most gay men are only interested in sex!!! Gay friends confirm the same to me.

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12.54
Read his letters, especially between the lines of them.
For one, there is his excessive misogyny; for another, there is his patriarchal promotion of maleness in the assembly (not just of men, but of maleness), a distinct sign of unacknowledged homoeroticism.

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1.32

Er, I did. Jesus himself was far from being as patriarchal and as mysogynistic as Paul, and indeed, as others later in the Assembly.

Paul did not follow Jesus’ inclusive example here, and in other ways. So he was driven by something else, but it was not external.

I believe as I said in my previous post, that Paul was a gay man, but deeply repressed about it.

Gay men who repress their sexuality can do considerable psychic damage, both to themselves, and to others.

Paul’s repressed sexuality, and its toll on his emotional and spiritual health, is clear from some of his words, for example, where he declares ‘arsenokoites’ (Paul’s own Greek term, and wrongly translated as ‘homosexuals’) non-inheritors of the Kingdom of Heaven, along with ‘drunkards’ (alcoholics).

Paul knew his nature, loathed it, and condemned it as beyond redemption.Hence the severity of his words, a condemnation that would be visited upon generation after generation of men gay by nature, not (as Paul wrongly believed in Romans) through excessive heterosexual lust.

Paul was a deeply self-conflicted individual. The resulting dissonance clearly left him deeply disturbed. And his words prove it.

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8.42
That’s not a counter-argument; it’s a reaction, at best a petulantly juvenile one.
Have you nothing, er, more erudite to chuck at me?😎

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On the question of gay men being only interested in the topic of gay sex, that can mean that it is all they think about, to the exclusion of most other topics; or that they are only interested in having frequent casual and anonymous encounters, with no interest in starting a relationship.
On the first point, most of gay men comedians base their comedy on sex. Gay men at work try to steer unrelated conversations to it, so I think that proposition is right.
As for the second issue, that also seems to be custom and practice, though I have had gay men claim that straight men would behave the same way if women allowed them. I suppose gay men remain perpetual bachelors, what with not having the ties and responsibilities that come with having children.

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This is an old favourite.
Nial Ahern once put up a sheet on the liturgy noticeboard outside Joe’s oratory asking for suggestions for music in the oratory during Lent. A Raphoe student put this on the list, anonymously. Nial found out who it was and hit the roof.
https://youtu.be/ZHCoKDQwauc

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Two girls in the Arts Block, when I was there, had a notice up looking for another girl to house share with them. They left a space at the end where the said girl could write in her details for them to contact her. Someone wrote Niall Ahern’s extension number, with the words, Nellie Dean, Ext. 274.

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I once saw Niall give a ferocious bollocking to a Cork & Ross seminarian on the corridor of Top Pat’s. Niall’s parting shot was, “If you don’t get your act together you are going to end up like Pat Buckley”. 🤣🤣🤣

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Pat, you should do a blog called “Where are they now?” Give us all an update regarding the whereabouts of Chris Derwin, Sean Jones, Brendan Marshall et al.

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2.14: I sincerely hope Pat doesn’t accede to your stupid, childish and utterly repugnant suggestion. These men are private individuals or getting on with their lives. Stop being a horrible, nasty bully. Only a screwed up f**k would ask such a question. Take your brain from your a**e.

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1.36: A l8vely.mass by a priest who is doing his utmost. The efforts to degrade him is blasphemous. Disgraceful that Pat allows such debasement OF THE HOLY EUCHARIST.

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I agree that the posting @1:36 seems an incitement to mockery. I think one might allow for the priest’s little affectations if his ministry is sound. He certainly gave an excellent little homily, from which most of his confreres could profit.
As for the pathetic attempts to reactivate tittle-tattle from the legendary summer of love, everybody has moved on, so drop it.
Who by the way is Kevin Connolly? If you have something to say, then come out with it.

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The blog was the best of craic during the summer of love. Hard to believe that it was four years ago.

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I’ve watched it. I don’t understand the taking off of what looks like a maniple, while he preaches. What is that about ? Seriously, I’m a bit bemused. Yes, nice little sermon, well formed, with a beginning a middle and an end. And most importantly not too long ! But, it really does predicate itself on some unlikely premises – the Virgin Birth, the after life for which this life is just a practice run, God using us to bring about his purposes which have little to do with this world but all about another world…..and so on. So, really a sort of mechanistic and highly improbable theology that has little or nothing to do with this life, which is all we really know and experience. Yes, i believe in a God who is good, but not in a God or a way of being that is perfectly packaged, works to a nice plan, is mechanistic, opportunistic and highly unbelievable. Other than that, a lovely Mass, Father !

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If the other bishops of E & W cannot stand up to Nichols, what does that say about them? The misplaced cult of Basil was largely responsible for the popular misapprehension that the Cardinal is the “head” of the Church in E & W. When that was somebody as useless as CMOC, it was Nichols in Birmingham who did most of the talking to the camera, as he was then thought to be a master communicator – well, that didn’t go well, did it? There is also the fundamental flaw in Britain of a London-centric view of life. Back in the old days, the formidable Richard Downey of Liverpool reminded Westminster that he was “the ruler of the North”.

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2.57 we ought to launch an enquiry into why Basil is sort-of admitting he is a “blunderer” while sort-of pretending he isn’t admitting it.

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I know nothing of what 6.52 is referring to in the opening part of his remarks, but I am well aware of the vast tissue of collective self deceit that we Irish involved ourselves, both reformation and post reformation, Irish. He refers to it as ‘some unlikely premises’. Indeed. The Galilean rebelled against Jewish teaching by constructing an ethic so unworldly – universal love, turning the other cheek, and giving away all ones goods – that there had to be another compensatory world, or as many worlds as one could dream up. But that fantasy meant nothing until Paul (who never met Jesus except in visions) and John, who could not have met him as he wrote long after he was dead; and prudent Constantine only added Jesus to his trophy gods and gave the priests the imperial city so that they could issue whatever bizarre infallible diktats they could think of, including the one that free men were precluded from having sex with women because that was sinful. Then, finding that their own animal nature could not follow their own vows, they turned to unnatural acts with children. Even the Greeks, whom Jesus was aware of as he lived in their linguistic world, never countenanced that. Life always turns to life; and love to love. But rape or violence plays not part in real love. And agape – that watered down love – plays no part in the human world. So we are left with this mess of a religion and the extraordinary abusive remarks that litter Pat’s website.

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Mmm, chip butty – the extra calories won’t do any harm, it’s Winter now anyway lol x

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6.13: Hi Betty: I’d love a lump of rump steak from the Kerry bogs: it’s name starts with R and surname with H…He told us he loves meat!! Wonder is he good at cooking “the meat” he eloquently spoke of?? He might invite us to taste….yum, yum, yum.

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Betty, pack it in, luv. Kebabs are very fattning.
Saying that, chicken or lamb kebab with lots of juicy tomatoes, onion and garlic mayo.
Heavenly! Truly heavenly! 😃 x

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Here is a discussion that greatly highlights the despair people of relative integrity know before they even start to reach for God through church-related spirituality, because of the absolute power usually imposed:
http://thewartburgwatch.com/2020/11/18/steve-bradley-stonebridge-church-who-didnt-report-jules-woodsons-abuse-and-refuses-to-speak-with-her-was-commended-by-the-credentialing-committee-for-exemplifying-sbc-faith-and-practices/#comment-436919
Predators are described in one of the comments as “incels”. They know that we know we’re going to be onto a non-starter. Because doctrines were abolished, we don’t have benchmarks early enough in life.

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A great consequence of Covid-19 is that Maynooth now resembles what it was like for most of its history and for which all those buildings were built: the formation of priests in a secluded environment of silence, prayer and recollection and without the dreaded lay students.

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Pay, Dom Malachy Thompson was only ordained in 2019 and according to his ordination story on the Abbey website.
“I was born on 3 July 1965. I grew up in what I could probably be described as a normal working class northside Dublin family … I was quite bright academically and did very well in school, although I left after the Inter Cert to get a job.”
Is this man out of his dept dealing with the the whole Dick Purcell affair and its inpact on Mt St Joseph’s and Cistercian College, Roscrea?

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If he was only ordained in 2019 and Dom Dick was in Melleray since 2017 then who was in charge in Roscrea, Br Inter Cert?

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Has it been established yet who is over Roscrea? There’s no Abbot so is it still Richard as Roscrea is a daughter house or is the long term plan to close the Abbey in Roscrea and move to Melleray which has an Abbot. Or is it that Fr Malachy isn’t ordained long enough to have been made an Abbot since you have to be so many years ordained before becoming an Abbot.

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5.06
Funny, that.
The Pharisees said much the same of Jesus: ‘too liberal for his own good’. And they saw to it that he got what was coming to him, didn’t they?

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James Martin dishonestly evades that sexual invasion (including verbal) itself largely prevents reistence. It intensely enforces on one that one is not human but dirt. Thus one has become incapable of constructive initiative and merely inert and passive and mindless.

Having said which children that did report a bad padre to their parents were rebuffed by their parents; when a boy in New Jersey told his uncle who was a parish official, the uncle tipped off the priest who fled abroad and has since boasted of the rape via “face book” or some such; the entire state of Victoria aided by most of the world’s press continues to divert from Pell’s already proven derelection in not shopping Little & Mulkearns the moment he had the power.

The “latest procedure” by the Vatican is that it will “see whether there is anything to see” further interfering with the objective existence of the ordinary public. Bishops everywhere must breeak with Rome.

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According to Crux, Archbishop Eamon Martin has called the forthcoming Covid-19 restrictions, effective for two weeks from 27 November, ‘a great disappointment’, despite the fact that the restrictions are necessary to prevent the further spread of Sars-CoV-2, the virus that can cause the often lethal symptoms of Covid-19.
You’d think a Christian minister (were he truly a Christian) would be happy to prevent further deaths in Northern Ireland, so why Martin’s ‘great disappointment’? Because church buildings will have to close for the duration without exceptional circumstances…and so too, presumably, will one of this parasite’s opportunities to leech money from ‘the Faithful’.
Of course, Martin went on to dress up his gripe as a willingness to heroic, self-sacrifice: ‘…and therefore (the Catholic Church in Norther Ireland) will continue to play its part in making the necessary sacrifices.’
Well then, Martin, play that part in making ‘necessary’ sacrifices with a cheerful, uncomplaining heart, not with hypocritical self-pity. 😕
Jesus does so love a cheerful giver.

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Did the Whistleblower in Silverstream mention Abbot Richard in his original statement otherwise why would Abbot Brendan look for an exculpatory statement from Whistleblower regarding Abbot Richard? Will someone answer that question because some of us can’t understand that element. Last week a group of us met (via zoom) to catch up and have a drink and we discussed your blog along with other matters Pat. None of us could understand why Joe looked for a statement from the Whistleblower regarding Abbot Richard so can you please explain that Pat and if possible before 9:30 because that’s when we’re having the wine and zoom.

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I can only think that Coffey was gathering as many “references” as he could to save Purcell’s skin. The whistle blower refused such a reference on the grounds that he did not know Purcell.

Coffey is quite an operator!!!

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Exculpatory statement? Maybe that’s a misnomer. Perhaps it should have been called ‘character reference’, otherwise ‘exculpatory’ makes absolutely no sense…unless Coffey was calling upon the whistleblower to lie that he was present on the occasion in question and that he witnessed no act of buggery by Purcell.

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Thank you very much Bishop Patrick. So by going above and beyond his remit in the hope of impressing Rome he shot himself in the foot. He should change his name again, this time to Icarus. It’ll get us through our weekly catch-up until your next post.

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Oh Bishop Pat you have that well correct yes Brendan is a shrewd operator.
A careerist that looks like that it is going to go in the wrong direction IF your Robert is correct.
Sad as it seems the Papal Nuncio will not recommend him for a Mitre.
But he thinks he is squeaky clean and the only way that is to tell the Truth and if he has any sense to go to Dublin and see the Papal Nuncio as NO doubt Big tom would likly have been on Zoom to Archbishop Okolo.

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7.18
The nuncio has such an excessive sense of his own importance that he wears a chasuble with his coat of arms writ large on the front when presiding at a Mass on tv. He is well disposed to Benedictinism as he was a Benedictine novice in Ewu – the daughter house of Glenstal in Nigeria.

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This makes better sense. But – did Coffey do this before or after the visitation? And is anyone trying to “save Kirby’s skin”? How well do Kirby and Purcell know each other? How much do Coffey, Kirby and Purcell know about various dioceses’ / orders’ financial affairs? What money flows do they know of, via uninhabited enclaves? The three of them are on a power trip by the looks of it.
Do the many “immediates” and “generals” need their “skin saving”? Whose idea was it to appoint those specific three on the visitation team? Did they have the discretion to turn the assignment down?
It’s noticeable the “nay sayers” never go anywhere near the subject of money.
Separately, why would the ACP have a stance on any of this (apart from hundreds of millions being snatched from their mouths) let alone one advised by their lawyers?

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6:17 pm, what if Abbot Brendan were attempting to get the whistleblower to take on himself in some way the blame (even indirectly) for Bishop Pat B’s campaign against Abbot Purcell? Pat was not speaking of Purcell before the visitation of Silverstream, and the content about Purcell picked up speed after a leaked email from whistleblower appeared on this blog. Possibly the whistleblower were asked to say something like, “It is unfortunate that the leaked email has led to a campaign which has sullied the name Abbot Richard Purcell, visitor of Silverstream”, etc.

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By the way Bishop Patrick one very good suggestion from our zoom call last week was that Mr Hourigan left out the Association of Catholic Priests (ACP) and wouldn’t it be interesting to hear what that forward thinking liberal group of holy men had to say about the strange goings on, particularly the contents of the alleged exculpatory email.

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Thanks for the wise counsel you gave me today Bishop Pat as a Priest. It has been a difficult day. You know why!! I will always be grateful to you. My own Bishop doesn’t ring me.

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It says a lot about present bishops today when priests have to turn to Bishop Buckley. Most Bishops treat their clergy as crap. That’s the reality???

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7.05 Do you ring YOUR Bishop or Vicar General or maybe your Dean
It goes both ways and MOST Bishops are approachable.
I hear Great report about Bishop Noel.
But if Bishop Pat helped you excellent and I am sure there is room in Larne for you.

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Most Bishops have been contacting Clergy weekly if not daily.
Can only think that it is DM your Bishop but he has been shielding most of it.
Maybe you could say a prayer for your fellow brothers in the Royal Priesthood.

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6.46: The ACP does not deal with sloppy, invalidated hearsay or innuendo. It is a fact based organisation and this blog does not register in its remit. The Legal advisers, civil and canonical are superbly intelligent people. FFS – anyine with a modicum of cop on knows that you do not print anything libellous. Get real.

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🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Many members of the ACP read this blog, and provide information to Pat Buckley. You would be surprised by the people across the spectrum that read Pat’s blog.

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7.43: Some from the ACP may read this blog but do you or Pat seriously expect any of them to engage so openly about named individuals? You are out of your mind. The ACP has superb egal advisors. The last thing they’d be advised to do is express any comment about any matter that may be subject to civil or canonical investigation. Robert, you don’t know everything not should you even attemot to speak for the CAP! It is obvious from your comment that you and Patsy are enjoying something of a bromance!! Perish the thought…

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Bishop Pat’s blog is very popular in Liverpool and Cheshire as well.
My old dinner lady from school had all the screen-shots from June!
… I don’t have social media.
She is a massive bingo fan,
they play online in big groups during lockdown; they can chat, send pics and tweet away while dabbing their pens!
Isn’t modern technology marvelous, so it is x

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7.29: Make contact for what reason? Are you hoping for someone to fill you with more hearsay and dangerous gossip.. Why don’t you write a book? Afraid??

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During which, no doubt, he will continue to receive his full salary and free housing, so that he might return, refreshed, to advise the rest of us poor suckers who enjoy no such privileges. And the clergy continue to wonder why they don’t connect with the rest of us.

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