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SHOULD WE TELL YOUNG MEN TO BE PRIESTS OR NOT?

Yesterday I had the email below from a young man in another part of the world who had been thinking of becoming a priest and who is now afraid that he would not be able to cope with all the scandal and corruption he would find in the church and priesthood.

Hello! Good morning to you in UK/Ireland Bishop Pat

Peter here from Xxxxxxx,

What are your thoughts about Mother Angelica, the founder of Eternal World Television Network (EWTN) in the United States??

She had a program on her own TV network called “Mother Angelica Live”. I used to watch her program because of her stance of defending the traditions of the Catholic Church, she’s anti-liberal and pro-life,

Also, I used to watch EWTN due to its wide range of Catholic teachings, also, they have a daily mass on TV.

However, things have changed when I looked upon the website this week called, bishopaccountability.org, a website that exposes priests’ involvement in sexual abuse scandals based on evidence.

EWTN and Mother Angelica is one of them. They didn’t know the background of some priests involved in sex abuse, every time when they had guests or working behind the scenes.

EWTN involved in politics and partisanship especially, they are involved with Republican Party, nowadays. Bishop Pat, what is your response about EWTN and Mother Angelica??

I would like to know that after I read your blogs both in Blogspot and in WordPress,

I am devastated and shocked at what happened in the RCC internal circles. I never expected that these scandals would expose and expose even more after several decades of hiding. I am saddened and even angered that the higher-ups were involved in the cover-up of priests to stay in power.

It shattered my dream and fear of losing hope of becoming a priest someday like you in the future. Do you have any suggestions on where are the best seminaries to study and become a priest?

How I can handle these stresses and headaches that brought upon by the Vatican, the Pope and the Church if I will become a priest, how could I endure these?

Thank you for your sincerity, for swimming against the current because of your disagreements with the doctrines of the Catholic Church and open-mindedness.

I hope we will have a great conversation in the future. Thank you for your responses. Stay safe! 

PAT’S ANSWER TO PETER,

Dear Peter,

Thank you for your lovely and sincere email. You sound like a good and principled young man.

I know several people in your country and indeed people from your country who live in my country.

I started saying that I wanted to be a priest when I was 4 years old and never wanted to be anything else.

This year I am 45 years ordained and today I love being a priest more than I ever did.

My priesthood has a simple double focus:

1. To love and serve God as best as I can in spite of my sinfulness.

2. To love and serve others, especially the most in need as I can also despite my sinfulness.

However, I have found I can be a better priest and do God’s work best OUTSIDE THE ROMAN CATHOLIC ORGANISATION.

The Roman Catholic Church and its hierarchy and clergy are totally corrupt.

Of course, there are good priests in it and some good still being done.

But in my experience, over 51 years the RC church has abandoned the Lord and His Gospel and settled instead for man made teachings – much like the Pharisees of Jesus’ time.

I see no hope of this changing.

We, and especially people like you in the future, will need to refind the the church that existed in Jesus’ time and in the first two or three centuries.

And when we find it fight hard not to allow it to become institutionalised and hijacked again.

And what an almighty task that will be.

If you go to a seminary, of any kind, anywhere, at this time, you will face being corrupted personally yourself and being sucked into the greater corruption.

You could lose your soul as many of our seminarians and priests have.

I’m reliably told that things are as bad in the Roman Catholic Church in your country as they are anywhere else.

So, pray, think deeply and proceed with great caution.

We can keep in touch and correspond and if you realky want to be a priest, I think you should think, for now, of doing it independently. Get a job. Find a loving partner for your life. Treasure your family and friends. Do all the good you can do in your own community.

As we communicate and I get to know you better I will be in a better position to advise you practically and specifically.

Your older brother in Christ.

Pat.

PAT’S HOMILY SUNDAY 7 TH FEBRUARY 2021

JOB – FROM DESPAIR TO JOY.

I’m listening to The bishopbuckleyspodcast | PAT’S SERMON Feb 7, 2021 12:57 on Podbean, check it out! https://www.podbean.com/ea/pb-9xqve-f9f205

105 replies on “SHOULD WE TELL YOUNG MEN TO BE PRIESTS OR NOT?”

A very fair and even handed response, Pat.
We should definitely tell them not to become priests. They would be better off becoming rent boys.

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My son once wanted to become a catholic priest… and now we came to the position he will go only over my dead body…
My advice is let everyone find their own path in life… in faith too…
I am catholic, but fascinated by the Buddhism too… They theory of understanding pain, grief at the core of their problem…
If you are gay move to Netherlands…
If you are paedophile get treatment…
And there is no call …, unless you are suffering from schizophrenia, something to concern….
Even if it is your vocation it takes time to understand, as it is for the doctors, lawyers, artists….
To everyone who find fulfillment at their job after years of practicing come to the conclusion thos is definitely my vocation…

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‘You sound like a good and principled young man.’ Didn’t you think this too of ‘Horny Andy’ when you saw his ‘pious’ devotions in a church you happened to be in?
You’re not the best judge of character, Buckley.

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I think that H Andy was a good young man when he entered Maynooth.

Maynooth and its inmates corrupted him.

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9.27: Pat – You have no idea of people’s true character or inner intentions. If this young man about whom you know not the truth has any sense, he should find a more enlightened spiritual adviser. I pray he will do that. This young man must realise from reading this blog that he may well be shredded the more we “might” discover. So, young man, search carefully. There are some very good priests or religious or good spiritual counsellors whom you should seek out. While you may receive “some” empathy on this blog, it is not the forum where you’ll find a true vocation. I pray that God will guide you and that Pat will guide you and ensure that you are kept safe from nasty commentary. I understand your genuine cobcerns about the Church and all that’s happening: it disturbs us all but yiu will find many, many good people, priests and religious included, who, despite the challenges, are rebuilding their parish communities into Christ centred communities. It is in this I find my fulfilment in ministry. God guide you…

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Mc Quaid was the worst Archbishop of Dublin. Abuse cover up, intolerant, abused his clergy, big supporter of Fiannai Fail.

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3:42am!!!!!

What a load of rubbish from an ejit still up at that time in the morning no doubt with drink taken. If only we had an Archbishop of the caliber of Dr McQuaid, get help you sorely need it.contact AA.

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I am up late because there is a thing called night shift – try it sometime Mister.

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9.50

Not a load of rubbish. You just can’t handle the truth.

You’re a moral coward.

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Bishop Pat, someone described yesterday the Elsie protocol (not the Irish sea Larne EU protocol)I was subject to it. Harsh. No tea/coffee offered after nearly an hour on the tube and drenched. Told off like a school child, a letter shoved under my nose. Care to comment was the response? Hateful man.

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9.41

No, Vinny doesn’t pay your wages: the Sheep do.

Vinny, like all priests, is a sponger.

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10:02am

Night shift yer arse if you were working you wouldn’t have time to be posting comments.
Yer reply came in at 10:02am anybody having just done a night shift would be sleeping.

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Never a Good Christian word from the blogger daily same old.
And certainly totally opposite the Gospels.
So So nasty all the time.

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Just to put the record straight, Elsie does not see many priests. He leaves that to his auxiliaries, who are fine men. It is a great shame that what might well be correct descriptions of episcopal behaviour have been exaggerated. The Westminster auxiliaries are exemplary.

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There is a simple answer to this question: NO. Asking / inviting young men in to a culture and life that shows itself with monotonous regularity to be dangerously dysfunctional for those in it and those who are served by it, is incredibly irresponsible, and can perhaps even be seen as tantamount to incitement / persuasion to harm to themselves and to others. I know that people will want to point out all the lovely priests that they think they know. There may be those exceptions. However, what is in question here is a more systemic malaise that inhabits the very notion of Catholic priesthood and lifestyle as we see it in our times. Everything from the rather questionable selection process, to the lamentable seminary formation in all areas but particularly in social, psychological, sexual and lifestyle, to the strange and odd lifestyle of a presbytery, to the dangerously arrogant notion that these young men when ordained somehow take on a different ontological character which reinforces arrogance, exceptionalism, lack of accountability and all the ills we have seen in the clerical culture and lifestyle. Encouraging a young man in to the priesthood It is an invitation to a young to undertake a life that will bring a lifetime of limitation, underperformance, lack of achievement and dysfunction. For some that will be translated in to damaging behaviour to themselves, and as we have seen, very often to others on whom they inflict their inner demons and inadequacies.

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No need to tell readers about resorting to damaging behaviour. You exhibit it on an almost daily basis here.

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11.42
Every time you comment, you make an utter fool of yourself. We all laugh at you.

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Rome has always been so unstable, it is a trade description issue. At the moment religion has to be about projecting an image. How will entrants keep up with successive shifts of the goal posts?

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It is not impossible in the future that a seminarian or young priest could sue the Roman Catholic Church for enticing him in to a dangerous and damaging culture. Not impossible.

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Be careful, Bishop Pat, that your correspondent is not looking for you to ordain him for ulterior motives.

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Pat If ok with you may I refer Stephen Wilson to you. Stephen needs someone to unpack the reality of his actions to other males.

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Why would any man want to be a priest in the first place? Think about it for a moment. If he is being honest with himself, isn’t it because he thinks that by becoming a priest, he will be giving himself totally to God? And that this is the only way to go for such? It’s nonsense, of course, because (apart from being downright wrong), it is also an expression of clericalism, which Pope Francis himself described as a ‘cancer’.

The supremely vain delusion that one can give his life totally to God ONLY as a Roman cleric is a conceit that was shot to pieces by Martin Luther. Didn’t the current abbot of Glenstal make this claim of himself in a YouTube video about his so-called vocation as a Benedictine priest-monk? I

Giving onself to God as a cleric is (and onky as a cleric) is Roman Catholic elitism; it flies in the face of Jesys’ express teaching that his disciples are to be servants, not masters. On the contrary, one can give his, or her, life to God in ANY way: the mother in the home, the teacher in the classroom, the person on a sick bed.

Whenever I hear a Roman Catholic cleric speak of giving his life to God as a priest, I just laugh at the obvious self-aggrandisement and show-offness of it. It displays a deep insecurity as well as psychological and spiritual immaturity. No wonder the Roman Catholic institution is ontologically in crisis with such mentally fractious men as these.

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Pat, Wouldn’t you think their Mammies would have told them to keep their willy in their Pants. I blame the Mammies. Just look at them now. No shame.

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Tell them to be priests. Ministry grows from church community and loving service and worship. Sure what experience have they to build on. I got told to be a matador-fek that for a game o soldiers hi

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In the last few weeks I have seen a number of programmes presented or co-presented by two priests from Ireland on EWTN (Owen Gorman and John Hogan).
In the Programmes they have spoken to different priests. While watching the programmes I have gone a google search on some of the priests that they had on, and I was shocked to read from leading newspaper website that some of them were charged with Child Abuse as clerics.
I thought that this was very poor taste from those in EWTN who fix the airing of programmes in Ireland and the UK. Maybe it was a case that those behind what we get to see this side of the pond would not check the priests out.
I know that some of the programmes that we see are a number of years old, some still speak about Benedict as the Pope of the Day, and I know some of the abuse stories might have come to light after the programmes were aired.
Even so, I feel that who ever it is in the Republic of Ireland, Northern Ireland and in the Uk that decides what we get to see on EWTN should do checks on Priests and Religious before re-showing programmes made with some time.
Some of what EWTN shows is very good, specially during the early hours of the morning, but instead of showing programmes featuring those charged with horrible crimes, why not make some new programmes. After all there is some very good young and maybe not so young Priests and Religious who have interesting stories to tell, and may well love to be involved in such programmes.

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Where is Canon Hep. He didn’t get Dublin. He must be Raging. Probably going around with a big mad head on him. Sure there will be other opportunities. Ferns. Tuam. Killala. Westminister. Glasgow. Sure you never know. God bless ya Canon.

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He did not expect to be elevated, being entirely content with his present situation. You are misinformed, I fear.

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What is the worst experience someone had with their Bishop ? Now be honest. Are they really that Bad ? Sure go on go on go on. Now for a cup of tea.

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I regard this as a rather provocative piece of manoeuvring. The intention behind the text is entirely undesirable and straightforwardly wrong. I am certain all but a few readers of this blog will lament your contribution, hoping you will delete it. We deserve better.

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+Pat, a great response to this young man. Well said old chap.
Reading your response reminded me that Jesus was a Rabbi who did not feel the need to be part of the Pharisee collective. Perhaps there is a message in that, not to mention the fact that institutions of humans generally become correct. A good defense to that corruption is of course to tell people that the Holy Spirit dwells in a particular collective institution and therefore it is immune from corruption.
Not being a great scholar I shall give my two penny’s worth, as the blog invites us to. I would not tell a “Young man” to join the seminary. I firmly believe it is for people (not necessarily male) who are more mature, understand life better and more importantly understand themselves better. Evidently modern media has exposed it as a place of sexual exploration instead of character building. It has ruined many a naïve young man.
Jesus choose men who were fishermen, and we also see Paul the tent maker. These early ‘priests’ (for want of a better description) were all people with a trade, at least some married. They seem experienced enough to make up their own mind instead of being caught up in sexual experimentation that comes with modern, liberal questing to know oneself better.

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Rome is now over-centralised. An entrant has to reckon with “implementing the council-within-a-council” which Heenan (no stick in the mud) didn’t agree to. People in the pews need more Scripture and prayers. And he isn’t “a priest forever” so why did he give up properties as if to look over-heroic?

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Mind, on the programme, Priest School, one trainee said his parents weren’t happy about him becoming a priest, although it all seemed to work out in the end.

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Larne should become a freeport, with duty free cigs and booze, a big casino and no taxes. It could be the new Vagas. Even have various singing priests doing residencies, like Elvis and Sinatra used to do on the Strip in the 70s.

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The DUPers should have been a bit more careful for what they wished. They thought they ruled the roost a few years ago, but when the parliamentary numbers changed, Boris sold them down the track, and now they are squealing foul. They should have realised that Boris’ Brexit philosophy was purely selfishly political in order to get him in to office, and he would do anything to do that and to achieve some kind of Brexit on an artificial date / timescale so that he could say that he’d achieved it. Sorry, but NI is collateral damage, occasioned by the DUP and Boris. Boris doesn’t give a crap about NI, and the DUPers are only interested in retaining their increasingly precarious British status, which is slipping and will continue to slip from them. The island of Ireland is already one economic entity after Brexit. It is only going to take ten years or so for it to become a political entity. The mainland British won’t care. In fact, they will be mighty glad to get NI off their hands. Welcome to the reality of 2021 and the future !

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Larne is the new Calais. When do the booze cruises start Pat? Elsie, never misses a trick, has already nicknamed you the Bishop of the sea border.

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Yes, I read a report of some parishes that felt uneasy about the ‘free’ money that was being offered, and recognising that they really didn’t need it and were well able to support themselves, their staff, clergy etc. But, the parish priests were strong armed by the diocesan people to take the money that was on the table. Looks like the RC Church in the USA jumped on the bandwagon. Not a great example, really.

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@3.48pm when you lift your next pint of milk in the north of Ireland it has already been processed south of the border mostly near Monaghan. Economic united Ireland already exists.

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We only drink Ulster milk in our house, never anything from south of the border.

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Gosh, Irish butter is the best in the world. Keep your cheap spreads full of nasty Preserves.

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So, @5:06 you only drink “Ulster” milk, never anything from “south of the border.”…….!
Gobshites like you don’t even know the geography of your own wee puppet state!
I suppose you don’t even realise that Cavan and Monaghan are in Ulster, and also south of the border? Maybe you’ve such refined tastes you can tell the difference?

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God bless Mother Angelica! She wasn’t afraid to stand up to that reprobate Cardinal Roger Phoney Mahoney when he made heretical remarks about the Eucharist. She took him on in public and he tried to whack her with his crozier but it didn’t work. She stood her ground and didn’t back down.

What an example of a liar and corrupt man is Phoney Mahoney. If you’ve ever seen the footage of him lying through his teeth at a deposition over covering up for abusers in LA archdiocese. It’s excruciating to watch. A wicked man and a bare faced, shameless liar.

The “dotty old nun” saw right through him and eyeballed him. She didn’t flinch. God bless her.

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3.38

Mother Angelica didn’t flinch? She didn’t flinch either when an American monseigneur, a lecturer in Moral Theology no less, said that he had ‘lost no sleep’ the night before Oaklahoma bomber and mass murderer, Timothy McVeigh, was executed for his crimes in 1996. Presumably then, he spent little (if any) time in prayer for the salvation of McVeigh’s immortal soul, the man reportedly dying unrepentant.

That particular discussion on EWTN, which was watched by millions of Catholics in America and around the world, gave the distinct subliminal message, apparently endorsed by Mother Angelica herself through her silence, that gloating over the killing of certain human beings was, well, morally acceptable.

Yes, God bless Mother Angelica indeed. But I doubt whether he did so that day, not least because, being omniscient, he knew that the Church would soon, after 2000 years of gross disobedience and rebellion, come to teach, in 2018, what it ought to have taught from the very beginning: that capital punishment is against the Law of God.

I’m confident of one thing: Mother Angelica and that elderly American moral theologian both know better now. At least, I hope they both do…for the sake of THEIR immortal souls.

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5.08
I know. I know.
But you just can’t trust, can you, the institutional RCC (its priests) to be faithful to Christ and to teach the truth.
So much for…infallibility! 😅

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5:16pm
Don’t be ridiculous Polly of course you can trust The Holy Church, it’s only because you were rejected that makes you say that. Infallibility does work they knew to get rid of you.

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I saw a YouTube video of Fr McHugh of Armagh talking about how God told him to leave his computers and a future wife and family to devote himself to God and the priestly ministry. It was gag making. Firstly, I doubt if Fr. McHugh would know what to do with a wife, and secondly it is just more of the self-agrandissment that goes on with priesthood – look at us, look at what a great sacrifice we have made, look how we have been chosen, look how special we are……. It’s all a load of sanctimonious, self-serving, twee trite. It’s a masque that was developed to place them on a pedestal, and we let them do that. The masque has slipped, thankfully, and we now know the reality. They weren’t even clever enough to be able to pull off the act any longer, so greedy and louche have they become. So, enough of the “look at me” narrative, please. We know the truth. And often the truth about you priests is not pretty !

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I saw that with McHugh as well. It would make you puke 🤢 🤮 Who do these lads think they’re kidding? “Wife and family” my ass 🤣

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Omg just watched that video you refer to with McHugh. I almost puked at how sanctimonious he comes across.

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I’d like to hear from some priests who have seen the light, and have left the priesthood, laid aside their ministry, gone of and done something else; not because they had to because of some accusation, or some relationship they wanted to pursue, or some other difficulty, but because they simply saw that the priesthood as currently lived is untenable and in great part a sham. It would be interesting to hear their thinking on this, and how they went about it, and where they are now. There must be some of them out there ?

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@ 4:16 – don’t you think it would enlighten the debate ? Good to see things from all points of view and all that ? Or do you just want to close down the discussion and refuse to let it be debated ? What have you got to hide ? All is not well in the kingdom, you know….!

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3.53: Enilighten us first about the fantastically wonderful nirvana you’ve discovered or tell us about your great achievements…we might follow you then!! Or listen to you!!

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Oh, no nirvana, just a normal life of work and family and doing my best. All on my own resources and efforts. It might have been easier if I had been a priest. But, I worked out long ago that it was pretty much a fucked up way of life and decided on a different path. Am I glad I did ! From what I see from this blog, clergy are very much an odd lot !

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3:53: This is a very relevant question which merits genuine responses: certainly not a childish retort such as at 4:16.
I suspect however that genuine replies will be few, but hope for some honest comments.
As an ex 1970’s sem I kept in touch with former colleagues, both those who left before or after me at end of 3rd divinity, and those who remained on to ordination, but who have subsequently quit priesthood. Summarising what I have been told, I acknowledge that several admit to now speaking much more freely to me on account of them knowing of my open rejection of all the RCC’S paraphernalia.
The standout theme is that deep down, most had longstanding serious doubts about the validity and relevance of many aspects of RCC teachings, and in particular their priestly role, but struggled against those doubts by internalising them as derived from their own personal “lack of faith.” For most, usually some external factor triggered their departure, such as a relationship.
But another significant theme is the sense of freedom and relief once out of the clerical role, and a recognition of how naive they had been initially. They had become blinded and constrained by the whole pretence of clerical solidarity throughout seminary and subsequently. The practical/financial considerations acted as an inhibiting factor often delaying a final decision.
It is also significant to say that the clerical abuse revelations of recent years have also caused several of them to doubt the whole relevance of religion and cease any observance other than symbolic family traditional events.

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Pat, if you are in the army and in a commissioned rank and leave or retire you are can still be addressed or referred to as Colonel or Major etc
If a priest of distinction leaves ministry and gets a partner should that partner address them by their ecclesiastical title. Eg ‘Fancy a good shag Monsignor’ or ‘That’s you put me up the pole again Canon’
Just askin’like!

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4.50pm What a crude contribution. It was not worthy of anybody in good standing. Please desist from anything similar. Disgusing

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Carfin Cathy or Jardine.
We are all awaiting this exclusive from Motherwell Dioceses all about the father and the new born Son.
Oh wait Carfin Cathy is mistaken and Jardine has missed it all.

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Bishop Pat, I’m not sure if you have heard that Elsie in private is referring to you as Bishop of the sea border, given your location in Larne. This is Elsie trying to use jest but being nasty at the same time. 6

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Elsie is cold and calculated. Has that wee wry smile. Basically a nasty bitch. You won’t be getting any tea or coffee Pat. It’s like the trick used by the Queen Mother, raise a half glass or full glass. Tony Blair got a half glass.

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6.51: Good luck to you – but you still haven’t found your total nirvana! Had you stayed the course, your salary would not have helped you sustain a partner and kids!! So, I guess you left and found a better paying way of life. Good for you.

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The short answer to the question is no, sadly.

Today, too many priests are vulnerable to false accusations from disgruntled “woke” laity, and opportunistic individuals who are more than willing to make a false claim for monetary gain. Of course, that does not excuse abusive clergy in the past. And the harsh reality is the most dangerous person to any priest is his bishop.

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It’s odd to think of God’s calling anyone to the RC priesthood when his son didn’t establish such an institution, when, in fact, the death and ressurrection of his son not only fulfilled the fruitless function of levitical priesthood (atonement), but rendered, as a result, the very idea of priesthood null and void. (Which, of course, explains, why Jesus, with perfect foreknowledge of his destiny and its success, did not establish such an institution in the first place: such would have been as pointless and counter-intuitive as it was unnecessary.😕)
But don’t tell this to RC priests: it makes them very nervous, very cross, very defensive, and very, very fearful for their increasingly irrelevant and redundant futures. As irrelevant and redundant as levitical priesthood itself.😅)

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@ 8:09pm This repeated narrative of yours is fanciful, absurd, ludicrous and a projection of your own malice at being rejected.
Of course, Christ intended to establish the ministerial priesthood. He chose apostles and disciples to carry on His ministry to the end of the world.
He did NOT appoint everyone who listened to and believed in Him to be apostles. There are clearly delineated roles, services and ministries in the Body of Christ.
You, 8:09pm, even at this later stage of your life, need to “build a bridge” and get over yourself. It’s really rather sad and pathetic that you malevolently spew invective, all day long, anonymously, on Pat’s blog.

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8:09
Shouldn’t capital punishment have got shoved in there somewhere.
Your posts are reminiscent of the questions fundamentalists ask e.g. ‘Are you saved?’ and they are so fixated on a formulaic answer that unless they hear the requested syllables (so a veritable shibboleth) they will not be happy. The three most frequent shibboleths you search for (I can see you gaping.) are – Jesus did not found a priesthood. A priest’s promise of obedience to a bishop invalidates his ordination. Capital punishment should not have been in used since the time of Jesus. All three positions are crude ahistorical nonsense lacking in nuance and theological or philosophical nous.

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6`35 and 7`30 pm. You pair need to take a chill 💊 pill.
I actually thought it was quite funny.
Thank heavens you’re not my neighbours. Prudes.

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How dare you besmirch my authentic view of what was a disgusting comment. You stand in a very short line who tolerate such expressions of vulgarity on this blog. One might say, Clean up your act.’

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Apologies Pat, I tried to convince Stephen Wilson to unpack his experiences with you, he won’t share with you, instead Stephen has agreed to unpack his emotions with Chris Derwin and Rory Coyle.

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