THE IRISH BISHOPS have decided yo hold a national synod of the church in the next five years.
They believe that this will revive the Irish RCC which is on its death bed.
If the past record is anything go by, it will be a process and an event, costing millions.
It will produce a big bound report that will sound good but it will be placed on diocesan and presbytery shelves gathering dust.
Nothing will change UNLESS
1. The bishops listen to massive criticism and advice from people whom tgey would not normally associate with – people like Getman theologian Hans Kung.
Kung in controversial in Irish tour 1985.
by Jack O’Sullivan Catholic Herald 1985.
Swiss theologian, Dr Hans Kung, last week called on the Church to accept civil divorce, the ordination of women and married men and to leave issues of sexual morality to individual conscience.
Speaking during a week-long Irish lecture tour, Dr Kling argued that the Church should stand up for the indissolubility of marriage, but said that couples whose marriages had failed and who remarried should be readmitted to the Sacraments for the sake of their children.
It was a “contradiction” to oppose abortion and contraception, he said, adding that such a view was –like being against the fire and the fire department”. Such issues should he left for individuals to decide on according to conscience.
Dr Kung, 57, said that all women should he able to become deacons and exercise the full ministry and that in the light of the shortage of priests, the Church should admit married priests, thus following rules laid out by the Protestant and Orthodox Churches.
Dr Kung was bitter about the Vatican’s revocation in 1979 of his right to teach as a Catholic theologian. He called the banning “the most cruel experience of my life” and said that he did not believe that Pope Paul VI would have made the same decision.
Pope John Paul II came in for repeated criticism from Dr Kung. who continues to be allowed to say Mass, preach and distribute the Eucharist. There was now “an impasse in ecumenism”, said Dr Kung, who identified the Pope as a stumbling block to reform. He was sceptical about the chances of November’s Extraordinary Synod of Bishops confronting the problems facing the Church and said that he would have preferred an convocation of a third Vatican Council.
Dr Kung spoke in Belfast, Dublin and Cork, delivering a lecture entitled Where are the Church and Theology Going?
2. The bishops and Rome allow celibacy to be optional.
3. The bishops and Rome ordain women at least to the diaconate whereby they can baptise, preach and celebrate marriages and funerals.
4. The bishops and Rome seriously revise the RC approach to sexual morality and homosexuality.
5. The clergy fade into the background, concentrate on being pastors and place power into the hands of the laity.
I see no hope of the bishops and Rome doing any of this.
Abd therefore, numbers will drop and the RCC will continue to shrink.
So why waste millions on a PR stunt that is going to achieve nothing?
AND A THOUGHT
103 replies on “A CYNICAL SYNOD?”
John Keenan spent THOUSANDS on a Synod and all it has done is gather dust on a shelf.
Nothing came out of it except report and of course they were copied to the Vatican.
But Paisley Dioceses still in debt , too many parishes.
Total waste of money and really does Ireland have five years to gather reports.
The new Archbishop of Dublin Dermott Farrell will be retiring the time it take to implement the Synod and Dublin does not have all that time to spare.
And the Papal Nuncio will likely be away as they usually only do five year stints maybe Archbishop Okolo plans to stay.
Poor Archbishop Eammon Martin will not get a red berretta while a Synod is ongoing.
Keenans Synod in Paisley was about as useful as a chocolate teapot. And yes, it was probably copied to the Vatican.
Fine lot of good that will do him.
Cushley is for Glasgow.
I do not know how many more times I have to correct this error. You will have read but clearly not had the wit to understand that Bishop Hugh Gilbert will be elevated to Glasgow. He is considered by the Vatican as a very fine Bishop indeed, well suited to the challenges of Glasgow. Please now stop this near constant spreading of falsehood about the Glasgow appointment.
How would you possibly believe you are persuading anyone that you have the remotest idea who is thought well of in ‘the Vatican’ ? Grow up.
Papal Nuncio? Who’s getting a red cap?
Jim S. is at it again. His obsession.
Endless errors when it comes to dishing out caps.
Jim can borrow one of Trump’s Red MAGA caps as that’s about as far as any of that Scottish lot will get near a red hat 🤣
I’ll never understand how this auld heretic has not been excommunicated.
Bella, if you think, for a second, there was little or no abuse in the Holy Mother Church or in Holy Memory until Vatican 2, you are wrong! The problem with the latin and lace brigade is selective memory syndrome! (just sayin,like) 😆
Kung is passe – but like Pat himself..We need a new language of hope, healing and mercy. A new language about being CHRIST and being a Christian community. We don’t need this constant, sniping negativity from Bucks Fizz who “fizzles” all to frequently with mock indignation and rage. Thank God for our priests who continue to sustain us with hope and positivity in this pandemic and who are available every day in their ministry. And what wonderful news that Pope Francis will designate KNOCK SHRINE as an International Place of Pilgrimage on 19th March, Feast of St. Joseph. Fantastic.
What a load of passe cobblers! Let’s re-invent the wheel!
9.43: Stay away uf you’re unhappy with the Church.. stay away. Let’s be encouragers not begrudgers or cynics…take the cobblers out of your brain.
You’re a Romanist, aren’t you? Forever talking about a ‘new language’ for this or for that?Talking makes you feel good and holy, but it is no substitute for living the Gospel, you pretentious and useless non-wonders.
Be the servant Jesus commanded you to be, not an imperial governor of the Roman Empire. However, there’s no earthly glory in this humility, is there? No praise and attention from the masses? No laurels?
Start by driving every one of these useless, bling bishops out of his grand palace and onto the streets barefoot.
Dispense with YOUR cathedrals and your thrones. This is not of Christ.
You people have had 2000 years to get this right, but you deliberately resist the Holy Spirit in preference for worldly ambition and self-advancement. This is why a synod is being proposed in Ireland, because the Spirit has been shut out of your flinty hearts. It is all you have to offer, and it is nothing at all.
Why should people listen to men about giving to the poor when they themselves live in palaces, are well fed and well clothed, who want for nothing, and can even take themselves, and their priests, off for highly expensive medical treatment to far away places like the States, but who would deny the same level of compassion and care to the very people who pay all their bills? Why should they listen to these hypocrites? These Christ-betrayers?
Forget about pointless and futile synods. Start a conversation with yourselves about where you REALLY stand vis a vis the Gospel. And be honest with it. You will entice no one with grand, pious-sounding but ultimately pretentious talk.
@ 1:58 pm. Bullseye. 👍
1:58: One hundredaneighteeeey!
1.58: Oh my dear Marge!! What’s wrong? You’ve gone off the rails again. Plase, stop being full of angst and mock, sham outrage. You seem like you are choking on your repeat of Chapter 1 of your MANUAL OF HATRED. We care about you. You are special. Don’t be forever slapping God in the face with your ugly invective. Remember the imperative of Jesus: “..Love your enemy, pray for those who persecute you..”. I keep these words before me when your comments appear. Difficult but I try. You opine that “talking makes me feel good…and holy..”. Thanks for your kindness. I return the compliment to you after your long e-s-s-a-y!!! That surely is a lot of windbagbing. But Marge, the difference between you and me is that, through God’s grace I am able to effect a meaningful difference to many through ministry and fail as I do, I try at least to practise gospel living. You are very blinded by hatred and prejudice (misguided and irrational) that you fail abysmally to recognise your obvious moral and spiritual malaise. And finally, if you are in need of financial assistance for a “new heart”, I’ll gladly be of assistance. Honestly:::”..Love your enemy, pray for those who persecute you.. “. Bless you Marge.
@ 4.01, this is the reason the synod will fail, attitudes like hus.
Kung is passé?
Don’t be a fool.
The proposed synod will be like those Christian revivalist movements and Rosary crusades that once generated much sentimental pious enthuasism among people, all of which fizzled out eventually like a spluttering firework.
The synod will play not to people’s heightened expectations and hopes of greater involvement in Church ministry and administration, and doctrinal formulation, but to their capacity to be deluded about such. Remember these men, the bishops, are those who brought us the sly art of mental reservation.
Remember, too, those with power rarely relinquish it voluntarily and completely, but only partially, not substantially.
If you expect much more from men who truly believe themselves, alone, to be the successors of the Apostles, then you are probably the kind of nodding donkey they are hoping to attract to their jamboree.
Don’t tell me what to do, Buddy.
Have you ants in your pants or pebbles in your shoes?
How long did it take to cobble up this?
Five minutes on the back of a brown envelope….
10.17: I think, Missy, you need calming pills. You’re overworking your wee brain..
if its anything like the Killala synod, it will advocate for married priests, gay marriage, women priests etc. Brenda Hoban will be delighted!
Deus nobis auxilium!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Well the Brenda wan might be delighted, I wont
God help us!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Brendan Hoban got it spectacularly wrong when he opined that Brendan Kelly was the first human being to be appointed a bishop in a generation.
Brendan Kelly a human being? Sweet Jesus. You only have to be aware of what happened in Galway the last three years to gasp at this statement. Cover up, cover up, cover up, exile, former Redemptorist.
I think, buddy, you’re getting a wee bit hot under the collar.
Have a wee.. stiff… drink… to calm yourself…like a good man.
1.23: The use of the word “buddy” is indicative of illiterares who keep repeating their limited vocabulary, as you’ve done a few times ready. Go get an education.
3:44, snob 🤣🤦🏻♂️
His point that it is a contradiction to be against both contraception and abortion is spot on.
Oh, alright,…just to humour you…I won’t call you Buddy.
Instead, I’ll call you,Bud. Now, you might be surprised to
learn, my higher education included Maynooth, of all places.
Did you have the.. wee…stiff…drinkeepoos?
Don’t think for a second, you pull the wool over my eyes, Bud.
Kung’s comments are rather clerical to my mind. What is the point of ordaining women to a ministry which is dead and where anyone who is any good will be selected out.
The bishops need to read the comments on this blog and then read the gospel and respond accordingly.
Ohh! That’s how you’re supposed to pick up a phone and dial 999…!?
I feel really, really silly now… I must have been doing it wrong, every single time over the past two-and-a-half years… 🙄
Interview with Canon Lawyer Tom Doyle
7.24: Doyle has little to offer…by way of anything about a new Church…He’s a bitter man.
Bishop Pat, will you consider establishing and forging contacts with various Survivors
Groups of Church abuse, inviting members to make submissions for use on your blog?
Groups could include, Bishop Accountability in USA, Snap Australia, Snap USA, etc.
After all, the Irish Church did send many priests to english speaking countries.
Like the bishops you serve, you haven’t listened carefully to Doyle, otherwise you would have received from his words seeds of hope and sekf-regeneration.
People like you, modern-day Pharisees and hypocrites, do not want to hear the truth, either about God OR yourselves.
A great idea frim the Irish Bishops. A much needed project. It can be a new beginning. I am hopeful and optimistic. It will be an opportunity to discuss relevantnisdues, sinevwill be contentious but once we keep the focus on CHRIST and endeavour to be imaginative and visionary about all issues in a prayerful context, there will be good fruits. Sadly, Pat throws freezing lumps of ice at any suggesriins before they even begin. God guide and bless our Bishops. Let us be trusting in God for a new aggiornamento!! Pope St. John 23rd bless us.
A new beginning or the announcement marking the beginning of the end?
It’s far too little, far too late. God Bless Us!
9.50: Thankfuy God never allows us to say that any new initiative is a mistake. God through his Spirit will guide this wonderful initiative..Try to be positive. Try.
What? Just as he guided that roaring success in Dublin in 2018? The World Meeting of Families?
Anon@7:55: The “freezing lumps of ice” you refer to is an admirable simile. The icy revelations here are only what has been revealed. But hidden beneath the surface of the RCC clerical facade lurks much greater danger.
Thus the reality of clerical behaviour.
The “Iceman cometh.”
Keep “shaking the ice” +Pat.
12.34: MMM – pity you are so cynical. Since you are not a believer or a member of the Catholic family, the concept of a Synod really shouldn’t upset you. Isn’t it commendable that, as you observe, when the Church urgently needs a huge overhaul, that it needs to radically go deep underneath the surface so that it may become the kind of Christian community we know we should be. There is indeed much we need to bring to light, much we need to throw out, much we need to do by way of justice for survivors of sexual abuse, by way of justice for women in the Church, by being a more humble, caring and welcoming church. My efforts alone are not sufficient. I do wish you would be more respectful and tolerant of any effort or initiative that may bring about a completely CHRIST CENTRED Church community. I am bemused at those who are “discouragers” about matters which are really irrelevant to their lives! MMM – are you a closet Christian?? And please, less of “freezing lumps of ice”☂️☂️☂️☂️☂️…🐺🐺🐺🐺…
You, and yur kine, yur all blatherers, so y’are. Bloody useless clerical windbags.
@1:38: I can only be respectful of religion when it validly and objectively justifies its existence and the underlying truths at the core of its raison d’etre.
It is instructive to view supposed religious expert believers, cardinals, bishops etc trying to do that in debate with highly educated intelligent questioning non believers. In such discussions with humanists, atheists, agnostics, whichever label you choose, such as Dawkins, Hitchens, Harris and many others of similar stature, religion with all its manifestations, practices, weird confused often contradictory beliefs, is readily exposed for the huge farrago of a con it is. Its believers are readily reduced to rely on that empty shibboleth of “faith,” or “our good deeds.”
So, contrary to your assertion, it certainly is relevant for we non believers to continue to question an institution which has had such an impact on our daily lives, and which continues to try and influence state organisations and the day to day living of many vulnerable people and communities.
Please,please,please don’t mention World Meeting of Families. My wee Timmy is still receiving therapy since that disaster and every time he hears of a new episcopal appointment that he doesn’t get he sinks into a deep depression.
It’s got so bad that he is now practising a Glasgow accent……….just in case……..!!
Well well 1.38, that MMM 4.02 should shut you up for a bit.
Unless of course you’re too thick to appreciate it. And I have to recognise that possibility. It’s par for the course by cathbots here.
‘Once we keep the focus on Christ…’? You poor, self-deluded fool. This is a platform, a runway, for the bishops, a charm offensive to ingratiate themselves with the people they betrayed, and continue to betray.
Where’s your natural-born intelligence?
Protecting children is relevant to ALL Irish citizens regardless of religious affiliations or none.
Are you for real, the first aggiornamento was a disaster we certainly don’t need an other. I rarely agree with Patsy but he is right on this one. God does need to guide our Bishops away from the path they’ve been leading people for years and back to true Catholicism, Roncalli made a big mistake we don’t want another one.
It won’t work. They never do.
Does God want Church abuse victims to continue to suffer in silence?
Has Gods Spirit anything to say on abuse cover ups? I wonder.
Tell me, please.Tell me.
Might be as successful as a pope’s visit… 🤣 but imagine if the synod recommended the Bishop’s conference to resign en mass.
Now you’re talking, HG.
Let them walk, the proverbial plank, en mass.
That would be an ecumenical matter 😉🤣👍
A waste of time a Synod is. These wasters don’t want to be told what to do or will not listen to the Laity. It’s a big boys club and they are just a bunch of Narcissists. They will spend millions on a synod, no one will be arsed to attend just like the failure in the Phoenix park Pope Francis visit. And all the money wasted on that. And the Homeless continue to die on our streets. This will be just another occasion for some priest climber to get a mitre and nothing more. Nothing will change.
9:24 LoL. Who’s going get the various contracts ?
10:26 One of many, HG. 😄😎👍
9.24: Aunty Synod, how’s your Uncle Pissoir?
9.24: Anti Synod…Think you are Anti Everything…just another cynic and silly begrudger. Utterly cynical.
Well it’s nice to see you being so positive about it.
You got it about right + Pat. Instead of waffling on about missionary church, evangelisation initiatives etc, their priorities, which are the priorities of the People of God should be:
3. Sexual / Relationship / Gender Issues / Teaching
4. Power / Authority / Money
Of course, all of those issues threaten something that is heavily ingrained in these bishops and priests who are organising and will manage and manipulate any synod – namely, CLERICALISM AND CLERICAL PRIVILEGE. So, I don’t expect there to be much movement, just a few nice words that will mean very little.
The very name synod is the kiss of death to this project, since it will mean nothing to most people and marks this as yet another internal exercise by a group which entirely fails to live the faith it professes.
@9.57 your head is so far up your arse. Your just one of the typical Narcissists I spoke about earlier.. I think your in cuckoo land if you think I am the cynic and begrudge. Run along now.
10.12: You run along mr. anti everything. Pessimists and knockers and begrudgers are irrelevant and very destructive. If you ain’t in the club, don’t get too angry.. P. S. : Narcissicism is a cop out word, almost a mantra for begrudgers…I do not fit your judgment. Let us rejoice in the Lord and with trust in God a synod can be wonderful. Never give up HOPE…
10.12: You’re upset…awwwwww, awwwww, 😭😭😭😭😭😭😭..
5.30: Yes, I am upset. Very upset😁😉😁😁😉😋🤣😎😎…that I’m laughing…😃😃😅😅😆😆..
Pat the Anglican Church has done all you say, do you see this growing? It has regressed significantly. Where are the fruits
Yes. But I think that Protestantism and Catholicism are different. But maybe you are right.
Is growth the indicator of fruit? If it is look to Islam!
Anglicans are NOT Protestants! They’re reformed Catholics!
Regressed significantly? Anglicanism?
Romanism has regressed spectacularly?
Sorry to break the news to you, 6:56pm, but in 1953 Brenda promised to uphold the “Protestant Reformed Religion established by law” ie the so-called Church of England”.
Synods of this kind turn into a pointless talking shop. No doubt the same nonsense about women being greater included blah blah, but ignoring the fact that most hetrosexual men find the Church off putting due to its overall lack of manliness
This bit synod wasn’t mentioned in the news not even rte nor IT or independent paper. It smacks of total irrelevancy on part of the media.
Why now cis its a waste of time. Why didn’t they do it 5 years ago or during papal visit or whatever.?
The purpose of this announcement is could be anybody guess. My guess although I could be wrong there was that rcc in Ireland are fading as they wanted to keep themselves in front of the mainstream news as to remind people of their own importance.
Vatican announced ban of side altar masses in either form NO or Latin Mass.
See here – 👇https://mobile.twitter.com/EdwardPentin/status/1370439204451328000
Thank you for the information Re. side altar Masses. I wonder what idiot thought that one up.
You would think that at this dreadful time the more Masses celebrated the better. What a shower!
Mass offered in the extraordinary form of the Roman Rite will be limited to the Clementine Chapel in the Vatican Grotto.
Moving in the right direction be less lace around.
Sorry to disappoint you plenty of lace still around in Rome, The Holy Sacrifice of The Mass celebrated in Latin in the Chiesa Gesu e Maria in via del Corso and in Chiesa della Santissima Trinita dei Pellegrini and many other Religious Houses in the city. I regularly attend them when I’m in the Citta Eterna so who cares about those morons in The Vatican they will die out but The Church will go on.
All hail ye, all hail Hans Kung was a brilliant theologian who suffered at the hands of rigid, unappreciative Vaticanistas. His work should not be forgotten. Indeed, it should be front and centre for the Pope and local bishops. But many dare not open their minds. All hail ye, Kung.
11.18 am anon
I never thought this when Kung mentioned about against abortion and contraception. It ls a contradiction as it never occurred to me until now.
What else more, had the Vatican and cardinal bigwigs got it wrong that Kung and others got it right?
All hail ye, Polly your new mantra is as mad as you. I would have had the auld heretic burned at the stake.
Bp Pat, the +Aul Doll thanked Cardinal Mario Grech for contributing to the Irish bishops’ recent discussions on synodality.
We know exactly who’ll be at the Synod. Female coffin-dodgers, Tim Bartlett and the bishops. Look at the pics of the Diocese of Limerick Synod Assembly and play spot the man and spot the non-pensioner.
The people who take part will have expectations that are impossible to deliver locally via this proposed non-executive talking shop.
1.22: More death knellers…..have you any HOPE in you? You must be a wonderful friend to THOSE IN NEED!!!!!
3:34 why are you always so angry?
Hope? In Christ, yes.
In the Irish bishops, or in any other Romanist bishops?
Might you consider contacting former seminarians, priests out of ministry,
religious sisters, etc, from abroad, who might be willing, if possible, to submit
an article to your blog telling their stories, etc.
Perhaps, a ‘Truth, Reconciliation And Atonement Commission,’ is more
appropriate in the Irish Catholic Church, before any Synod takes place,
considering the most recent scandalous revelations.
4.00: A perfectly legitimate was asked by 3.34. Why, may I ask, are people like you always so negative, discouraging and contemptible towards any new ideas or initiatives by Church personnel? Why? If you are not interested in or belong to the Church, then desist from horrible negativity. I keep HOPING for new beginnings, however small.
The Great Commandment
The Ten Commandments are fulfilled in Jesus’ Great Commandment: “You shall love…God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength….You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” (Mark 12:30-31)
The New Commandment
Before his death on the cross, Jesus gave his disciples a new commandment: “Love one another. As I have loved you, so you also should love one another” (John 13:34).
The Parable of the Good Samaritan
25 On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. “Teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?”
26 “What is written in the Law?” he replied. “How do you read it?”
27 He answered, “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind’[a]; and, ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’[b]”
28 “You have answered correctly,” Jesus replied. “Do this and you will live.”
29 But he wanted to justify himself, so he asked Jesus, “And who is my neighbor?”
30 In reply Jesus said: “A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, when he was attacked by robbers. They stripped him of his clothes, beat him and went away, leaving him half dead. 31 A priest happened to be going down the same road, and when he saw the man, he passed by on the other side. 32 So too, a Levite, when he came to the place and saw him, passed by on the other side. 33 But a Samaritan, as he traveled, came where the man was; and when he saw him, he took pity on him. 34 He went to him and bandaged his wounds, pouring on oil and wine. Then he put the man on his own donkey, brought him to an inn and took care of him. 35 The next day he took out two denarii[c] and gave them to the innkeeper. ‘Look after him,’ he said, ‘and when I return, I will reimburse you for any extra expense you may have.’
36 “Which of these three do you think was a neighbor to the man who fell into the hands of robbers?”
37 The expert in the law replied, “The one who had mercy on him.”
Jesus told him, “Go and do likewise.”
“If anyone causes one of these little ones—those who believe in me—to stumble, it would be better for them to have a large millstone hung around their neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea.”
None of which answers why your always so angry.
I read the quote as ‘at our sponging general meeting’ 🤣
I forgot to include, why not consider recorded interviews with the aforementioned in
previous posts. You could put them up on various social media channels.
If all the parishes were full of 30 and 40 year old with young families, Kungs ideas might work. In our parish it is mainly retired couple. The above was written nearly 40 years ago.
Kung spoke to eternity. Your point is not sound. Indeed, I say, it is made on the basis of assumptions that amount to no more than crude stereotypes. Think again, said he.
It’s because of Kung and heretics like him and the Spirit of Vatican II crowd that parishes just have old dears and no young families.
9:44. Nothing to do with hiding abuse for decades?
Wrong doing by Peter Smith, 1999:
How quick after that was he made RC “abuse chief”?
Oh I see, exploiting the trafficked is good morals in Schoenborn’s CCC.
Fr. Kungs lectures referenced above were in 1985, around the same time Fr. Tom Doyle, et al, wrote, what is commonly called, “The Manual” advising the American Hierarchy on what was coming down the tracks.
I thought heretic Kung was dead. He must be hitting 100.
Fifth Dimension – Up Up & Away , My Beautiful Balloon – Bubblerock Video 3
The net’s closing in on that aul gaylord, Cardinal Comastri.