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REDUCING THE NUMBER OF IRISH DIOCESES?

There has been talk of reducing the number of Irish diocese from 26 to 11 or 12, for several years now.

Was there ever an official report into this done by Rome and shared with the Irish bishops?

Does anyone have a copy of this report they would be willing to share with the blog?

Even, or especially, a leaked report 😄

It is quite clear that some of the smallest diocesesvare no longer sustainable – Clonfert, Kilalla, Achonry, Dromore.

It’s unlikely that any of the 4 archdioceses would be suppressed. But Dromore could go into Armagh.

Some people think that Kevin Doran of Elphin might be transferred to Tuam and then Kilalla and Achonry joined into Elphin?

Could Kerry and Cloyne become one?

Could Kildare and Osssory become one?

Could Derry and Raphoe become one?

As the Irish church shrinks there will be fewer priests and certainly fewer priests with the calibre needed to be a bishop.

Tecent episcopal appointments show that there are priests becoming bishops who would never have made the grade before.

People like;

Ray Browne of Kerry 😬

Fintan Monahan of Kilalloe 😬

Deenihan of Meath 😬

“There was a time in Ireland when priests (bishops) were made of gold and chalices were made of wood …..

Nowadays, the chalices are made of gold and the priests (bishops) are made of wood”.

May God preserve us from the Deenihans, the Brownes and the Monahans.

98 replies on “REDUCING THE NUMBER OF IRISH DIOCESES?”

Increasingly the NHS is employing chaplains without reference to the churches. There are a number of previously RC chaplains that have gone native and have little or no connection with their original church. + Nichols has tried to get a number of them sacked, but the NHS has said there are no grounds for sacking them, and since they are employed and paid by the NHS, and work under a contract to the NHS, there is nothing that + Nichols can do or say. The chaplains are just chaplains and present themselves as they wish, and most people don’t mind or care, as long as the chaplain is pleasant, kind, caring and spiritual. That is the way it is going. Church authorities are quickly losing control and influence in these areas, mostly because the authorities that employ chaplains etc. don’t have much regard for bishops or superiors and prefer to trust their own judgment in hiring people. + Nichols is very frustrated by it all. Another sign of his and other bishops’ dwindling influence and relevance. They only have themselves to blame, really. They have lost the trust and respect of so many in our societies, and increasingly within the Church.

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Anon@ 12:37: A very appropriate comment and analysis.
For all its history the RCC has ridden on the back of individual and society’s need for spirituality and fellowship. It has devised and promoted a straitjacketed regime in which the clergy hold power to dispense favours, but always in their own interests.
While this generalisation may not always be the case, it has always been a dominant thread.
This trend towards independent chaplains is welcome, as is the increasing number of humanist celebrants for rites of passage occasions.
MMM

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Due to the ongoing situations in the Diocese of Killaloe with Father Gerry Carey and Father Ger Fitzgerald.
Can anyone with any concerns or information please contact Bishop Fintan Monahan so he can continue the canonical procedure to get justice for All.

Bishop@killaloediocese.ie

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12.25
This is too serious for your sick jokes.
There is Vulnerable victims here so your sick jokes or comments are not needed.

There has been mention of drugs and sex and there are victims your help is needed to bring Justice to the victims.

bishop@killaloediocese.ie

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12.25
You come across as desperate. That must be the ninth or tenth time you’ included an email link to the same address. I wonder why?

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12.25
BB instead of bitching behind your laced curtains.
Why not drop the Bishop an email saying you do not want active shagging clergy or wanking clergy in your Holy Mother Church.
The shaggers is still saying Mass daily so it is only right those that love this institution tells them the wankers and shaggers need dismissed proto.
Ok just sit behind your keyboard and bitch let the shagging and wanking priests continue to perform 🙂 🙂 🙂

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The person giving Fintan’s email is the stalker who usually goes on about two ex-Killaloe sems.

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Moanin Minnie at 1:03pm

That might be all right for an atheist like you with no belief, but even now most of us would want a priest to give us the Sacraments, not some humanist who could give no comfort at all. I have done The Nine First Fridays many times and I believe that at the end I will have the consolation of a priest. I know of course you will scoff but I don’t care. I’d rather have hope in the life to come,rather than be you who think that’s it.

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Well said, 2:25. If I were an athiest in the very late autumn of my years I wouldn’t be wasting the limited time left in trolling religious sites.

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2:25. And while you’re doing your Nine First Fridays rituals, all around the world millions of other individuals are equally devotedly following the prescribed rituals of the belief systems
of their geographical and familial/tribal birth location. I’ve read that there are over 10,000 religions currently. And your reliance on the First Fridays magical numbers: perhaps a bit of Pythagorean belief there. Maybe the “666” number of the biblical beast might interest you too?
What makes YOUR beliefs more valid than those others presently followed, or indeed other now long past abandoned religious beliefs? They can’t all be right! It’s simply an accident of birth, place, and time which has determined your faith sir, or madam.

By the way, what was YOUR God doing for at least the 98,998 years of known existence of our homo sapiens species before YOUR God got the notion to vicariously “save” us through the weird concept of having Himself nailed on a cross in the form of His Son? Couldn’t he be bothered, or was He too busy saving souls on other planets? The whole farrago is just so ridiculous. He’s a right weird god that one of yours!
I take comfort in believing that this life is my only one, and that I should make the best of it, for myself and others. To live a life aspiring for something for which there is so much abundant contrary evidence, well that for me, would be abhorrent.
Now, could I ask you why you find it necessary to continually refer to me in the manner you do rather than my acknowledged pseudonym. If it makes you feel superior, or better, then by all means continue.
May the Friday Force be with you.
MMM

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5.13
The blogger with Fintan’s email is not even in the South of Ireland.
however everyone wants Justice for the victims not for shagging and wanking clergy.
Oh sorry Father as I forgot these reprobates is part of the brotherhood.

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Mourneman, I thought your remark at 1.03 fair enough, especially ” … While this generalisation may not always be the case, it has always (for which I read “often”) been a dominant thread.” As for your continuation at 4.46, revelations previous to Christ no longer extensively recorded don’t alter anyone’s “case” very much.

On availability of chaplains, the other posters should realise a worthwhile God would help them without sacraments IF need be. Was I the only catholic that didn’t have a superstitious view of sacraments? When the time comes for those posters they will revise their priorities in any event and won’t need to “score points” against you.

Genuine believers have to know how to maintain integrity and that both individual collaboration in religion, and tactful separatism / plurality (which we rejoiced in in my young day) depend on there being respect for this. The bossier the colonialists in Rome / Armagh / Dublin / Ambrosden get, the less they have a standard brand, but actual Scriptures ask me to put in my own brain work on the meanings.

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There is an urgent need for the dioceses in Ireland to be amalgamated and because calibre of the people being appointed to the episcopate in Ireland is dreadful. Bishop Ray Browne in Kerry is nothing short of a disaster; Bishop Crean in Cloyne, formerly a priest of the Diocese of Kerry is not much better.

In Ireland there should be no more than five dioceses; reflecting the major population centres. I would support the retention of the Archdiocese of Dublin due to its size; I would have a Diocese of Leinster; a Diocese of Munster, a Diocese of Connaught; and a Diocese of Ulster that comprises the current six counties for legal reasons, with the current diocese of Raphoe being annexed to the Diocese of Connaught.

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There is some merit in this suggestion. IT would of course involve carving up Clogher and Armagh.

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Moanin Minnie @4:16pm

You ask how I call you Moanin Minnie it should be self evident you moan and rubbish everyone who still believes despite all the dreadful things we hear on the blog everyday. I prefer to believe the promises of The Most Sacred Heart of Jesus given to St Margaret Mary for our consolation rather than your weird beliefs which are extremely hopeless and sad.
There is nothing worse than a lapsed Catholic, I still hope that you get the grace to say an Act of Contrition when your time comes.

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@ 8.16: It is very evident from your response that rational discussion with you is not possible. You fail to appreciate the difference between legitimate questioning of opinion and beliefs and personal criticism of individuals.
So by all means continue your wishful thinking and good luck to you.
MMM

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The worst thing about Mourneman’s beliefs about society generally is his denying the loss of old records. Meantime God’s critique of the false revivalism of Josiah’s day in Jeremiah and Lamentations applies equally well to now, as to previous ages. As it happens, in my own subculture we had never heard of First Fridays: “lapsed” as such might mean anything or nothing, and the advantage of infrequent communion by most was the tactful cover it afforded politicians.

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12:02 Anon, what are you ON about?
In today’s digital age vinyl 78’s are so ancient history!
And Jeremiah’s lamentations? Was he the brother of the guy Jonah swallowed by the whale?
Gee this biblical stuff is really amazing 👏 😍 👌

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“The Act of Contrition!”
Another RCC “GET OUT OF JAIL” trump card.
What a wonderfully comforting religion is this RCC one. I’m really glad I was born in the right place and at the right time to the right family. I’m much in favour of righteousness.
Just imagine if I’d been born in the United Arab Emirates, and the massive amount of brain taxing thinking I’d have had to do to pick and choose between all these Muslim sects and thousands of other religions before finally working out that the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic RCC is the ONLY true one.
And it’s such an easy one too. Blot your copy book as often as you like: just go to the confession laundrette to wipe away the stains.
What’s not to like?

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Easy Peasy, I would like to criticise your snide and cynical comments on Holy Mother Church, the One True Holy and Apostolic Church, ………., but I can’t. They’re accurate.
Anyone with a sense of perspective who uses their brain, an allegedly God given asset so not to be abused or ignored, should recognise the force of your comments.
So why don’t they? Maybe that regular RCC explanation is appropriate: it’s a mystery!

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Pat why are you so obsessed with an organisation that you boast about having left? Surely the issue of organisational changes are not that important to you in your new found freedom?

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This blog exposes abuse corruption and criminality in the Rcc in Ireland and Internationally.

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Yet in your Easter liturgies you kept referring to ‘the church’, what Church would that be? ‘Holy mother the church calls her children throughout the world….’

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It’s not good for priests to be rattling around small dioceses, often being appointed to the same parish a couple or more times in the course of their lifetime.

It would be good to have a large diocese so priests could have broader exposure to more parishes and different types of parish. It would also be good for parishoners to see new faces and hear new perspectives.

It would break up clerical cliques, such as Clogher’s, would save money on palaces and curias and free up men from desk jobs as bishops of micro dioceses and secretaries and chancellors and the like.

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Nothing worse than a bishop’s secretary on a power trip, despite the ability to throw a stone from one end of the diocese to another without taking a step.

But would Browne, Crean and Deenihan be willing to be auxiliary bishops following amalgamations?

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Seen from “over here” I suggest seven to nine dioceses:

1. Down & Connor
2. Remainder of six counties only
3. One for remnants of old Armagh province outside the six counties
4. One (at most two) for Tuam province
5. One (at most two) for Cashel province
6. Dublin, but not to become metropolitan for elsewhere
7. Remainder of old Dublin province

Any of the episcopate not suited as coadjutors can still be stretched as rural deans.

This is an international general public concern because of the quality of exports from Irish seminaries mid course reportedly subsequently harassing other nations’ students and confusing the faculty.

People like the team ministers of the Ennis neighbourhood should not have been told hanging on was their only chance of being Christian (right of salvation).

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@11:48 am

I think your suggestions are excellent. Of course, they will meet with vigorous resistance from the entrenched bishops. However, their mismanagement of the Irish church means they should not be given any credence.

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Yesterday blog indicates that bishops out there dared to spend 1m on their house. It reminded me of ‘bling’ Treanor and few other bishops abroad who lavished their property to extremes. I recall bertone was one of them.

The question here that I’m asking where did they get that money from? Parish monies say a percentage. Its our donations money that we should cease contribute to parish coffers cos they have a lot lot of wealth.

Yesterday blog had me rightly pissed off hugely. This is not about God or their false gospel which contradicts their lavish lifestyle. I’m guessing here that some bishops out there don’t believe in jesus christ. They had Catholics hoodwinked big time especially Catholics giving and donating money.

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Subject Jersey, I. of Man and Gibr. to the Prefect of Falklands
Merge E Anglia with Brentwood
Add Hertfordshire to Northampton
Merge Arundel (plus Spelthorne) with rump of Portsmouth
Add Herefordshire to Clifton
Revert Wales (minus Herefordshire) to pre 1976
Revert Hallam area to pre 1976
And a couple fewer Archbishops.

To think that only yesterday there was such clamouring for a Diocese of Didcot.

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4 big dioceses would be enough with 4 bishops and their auxiliaries Bishops (to assist merging of all dioceses).

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Questioning the possibility of reducing the number of dioceses is fair.

The attacks and insults on bishops is disgusting. There are ways to criticise people constructively without belittling.

Where is a leader with language of understanding, compassion, reconciliation, educational, integrity and inspiration?

Is mise le meas,

Séamus

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Seamus, there isn’t one.
I don’t know how old you are but one thing which has become very clear over the past thirty years is that the hierarchy of the church will not do the right thing.
No amount of dealing reasonably with them gets anything but blocking and prevarication.
I appreciate that the humorous approach taken here may not be apparently the best way to approach it but please understand that this approach may be preferable to suicide for some people who have tried to deal with the church.
If you find this incredible please read up on Marie Collins or just simply write to your bishop and see what response you get.

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Some bishops out there have brought it to themselves as they deserve the criticism especially abuses cases. You don’t get it Seamus re bishops have been gaslighting us for decades. Now it’s high time to bring them to account for their actions. Their behaviour sickens me especially Bishop on yesterday blog. I didn’t want to have anything to do with rcc because of yesterday blog.

If you think you are fit for a Bishop then you should replace Crean, just saying.

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The Football fans let their voices be known and heard and put a stop to a Superleague . Why can’t Catholics do the same and have their voices heard and get these useless Bishops out. Tracy Chapman had a song, talking about a revolution. Let it begin.

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12.29: I agree with you Seamus. Criticisms, when fair, raruinal and balanced, are proper and necessary but the gratuitous insulting if every Bishop by Pat is not just disgusting but is an abuse, a bully boy tactic, harrassment and morally reprehensible. Your question about a leader with integrity, compassion, understanding and inspiration is a thought provoking one. Some Bishops have excellent personal qualities, some not so amenable or inspirational but they do not deserve the relentless viciousness of personalised attacks. This is bullying. The Bishops I’m sure would not tear Pat to pieces nor demean him as a human being, as he does to them. As for Deaf Guy: fund a new narrative or another hobby. Go and rain on someine else’s parade. You are boringly repetitive.

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Anon 12.54

Is that the best you come up with eh? 🤔

Not good enough especially for rcc apologist like yourself. Are you priest by the way?

One thing is quite clear for me is that I don’t trust rcc ever again. You are defending rcc who abuses kids for decades and shafted them at the end with no compunction. That says all about you and your support of rotteness in rcc. Enough said and now eff off😈

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@1:05 I think the fact it annoys you is more than enough reason to continue. You just want to control the discussion.
Carry on, deaf guy.

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12.18: Deaf Guy: doesn’t matter whether I’m a priest or not, your contributions are repeat, repeat, repeat.. boringly. We’ve heard your caca all too frequently. Off with you…

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12.44pm anon

You would make great caca buddy with frankie the gaslighter in santa Marta. I’m sure frankie will welcome you with open arms into his caca club and say who am I to judge?

Hans kung was right about rcc, cos its too legalistic, prescriptive, too hierarchical and very undemocratic organisation where we have no say in abuse matters. Mc Carrick saga is rcc worst bit so far. Just wondering is there many similar mc Carrick cases of bishops or cardinals out there? In Ireland 🙈🤔

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9:04 pm – Well said, DG. Keep rattling their cages. I’m reading ‘Can the Catholic Church be Saved?’ by Fr. Hans Kung. It’s a great read, DG. Kung brings out into the open the historical truth about the Christian Church, starting with its origins- in the face of all the current attempts to forget, conceal and cover up. Many might find it frightening and dissillusioning, ahow all too human are so many Church institutions and constitutions including the papacy. Fr. Kung calls for a renewal of the papacy in such a way that the Petrine ministry once again becomes the office of St. Peter described in the Bible. The Truth sets all free!

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Fr. Hans Kung’s book is titled ” Can We Save The Catholic Church,” published in 2013.

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Look at Glasgow’s finest HQ over looking the River Clyde amazing.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/196+Clyde+St,+Glasgow/@55.8553859,-4.253589,3a,75y,29.13h,90t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sJMaTncAyK4-PBvWt894l4A!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!4m5!3m4!1s0x48884698c2b308e1:0xc5fec14003a39050!8m2!3d55.8555936!4d-4.2534182

Only 99 Parishes and some very small.

also two Archbishop’s house 1.2M and 850 K so will + John Keenan do his Paisley stunt and move into a Parish House in Glasgow or come to HQ.

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@Séamus

“The attacks and insults on bishops is disgusting. There are ways to criticise people constructively without belittling”.

Bishop Ray Browne ordained Fr. Sean Jones having first asked him to swear an affidavit attesting he was not the individual in a photograph that appeared on this blog. One does not have to be a forensic analyst to discern that it was Jones in the photograph and that the contents of the sworn statement given by the then Deacon Jones were a tissue of lies.

Bishop Crean of Cloyne has repeatedly has refused to acknowledge that a sex act took place on an altar in his diocese. He has pursued a strategy of dissimulation suggesting that the images of the sex act were “photoshopped”. Those are two examples, I could give you a lot more. The public execration of the bishops in Ireland is justified.

A positive first step to improve the situation in Ireland would be to remove the bishops from their personal fiefdoms because they have done what they like with impunity for far too long. I am not some bleeding heart liberal, however, it has become very clear that the vast majority of the bishops in Ireland are not worthy of personal respect, but the office of bishop should be respected.

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1.20: We’ll support you when you name yourself, a date to meet and March on Bishop’s homes all over the country. Go on, be brave. I love the bravura behind laptops.. Amazing.

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I do love it when the blog gets heated – no light plenty of heat, perfect.
The Catholic Church and its clergy are like a super/turbo charged shrill prudish and priggish Maiden Aunt – she hates dissension, she despises open and free debate and she is less the Bride of Christ and more like a bitter and twisted old widow – open the windows on debate and discussion, criticise, critique, object, complain, protest, to our hearts content – like of ancient of days, the Pharisees always squeal like little piggies all the way home.
The abuse of sex, power and money is their legacy – and bishops especially drink deeply from this cup of corruption- the litmus test of the devils presence is child abuse and cover up – crimes so despicable even prisoners want to tear these miscreants and their enablers limb by limb.
I want to see priests and bishops spat on in the streets, mocked and ridiculed not for their virtue like Blessed Dominic Barberie but for their crimes and corruption. Not living in opulent palaces and country piles but on council estates struggling to get by like the great unwashed.
Ah that felt so good!!

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A reduction in the number of dioceses is not good for young go-getting pastoral priests whose gifts would be best used in the service of the Church by being made a bishop. Tim Bartlett, for example.

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My favourite gospel story is the one where Jesus politely makes a complaint to the temple authorities about the money changers, and is careful not to upset anyone.

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Absolutely bizarre, especially as he initially denied being the priest.
Another nasty piece of work who was deemed suitable for ordination and can’t even be polite to people walking dogs.

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4.15
The story is far from the truth they only edited what they wanted.
He certainly is far from a nasty piece of work as the man’s Good works go with him
He is retired and living in that vacant presbytery and tries his best as he has health issues.
The shit all over the parish grounds is shocking and it would help if they cleaned in up after them.
Renfrewshire Council fines dog owners who do not clean their dogs mess but the parish cannot and it is volunteers who cut the grass.
No priest deserves hatred towards him and more so a retired one.

Be interesting to see what Bishop Keenan does hopefully fences the church properyt off

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Lol you are the funny one 4:45. If what you say were true he would just have said ‘I’m a retired priest who lives there and would be very grateful if you would pick up after your dog’.
TBH I would be surprised to find any cleric with the social skills to say that.

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Funnily enough, the same diocese where a very prominent sem is from and has a reputation for throwing his weight around and threatening people. The sem disappeared and everyone seems to avoid any questions these days around him. The same will happen here. What oh what is it with paisley?!

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Carluke 75 he is not a Seminarian for the Paisley dioceses.
What is it with Motherwell and Despard who I think you are.
Or a seminarian rejected as you are about 47 now.
get over it.

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4.35
Mr McNamara is only a parishioner in the Dioceses of Paisley.
So bitter because he maybe knocked you back.
That is what happens when you stalk chickens.

Btw for over sixty five years of Paisley dioceses it has only ever had 2 C/o and they are going through the canonical procedure then it will be bye bye.

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Your obsession with Evan is very worrying. He endured a year of this and ended up very unwell. We are all glad that he is now well and being supported by his superiors.

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Thank you someone who knows evan for who he really is as someone who knows him personally he is a danger to everyone around him

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3.19pm

No shit Sherlock – another Grammar Nazi slug crawls out from under the woodwork.
No doubt you would kick out manuscripts by Steinbeck and Hemingway both who played fast and loose with the conventional grammar straitjacket on the highway of self-expression.
Money on your a cleric – seminary educated – who couldn’t earn a penny from your anondyne and pedestrian syntax if your life depended on it but would sleep like a baby knowing your copy was grammatically pristine.
Mind you, I think you’ll find as per your post, that a sentence should end with a full stop. Period.
Ps. It’s a Blog darling not a dissertation for a prissy effete Maynooth Professor
Kiss my Face.

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Integrity is doing the right thing when noone is looking. Has this blog integrity? I have evidence that it does not.

Is mise le meas,

Séamus.

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He won’t, Bishop Pat, because he’s a troll. If he does it will be something about his supposed scruples and not about the blog at all.

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6.00pm. Pat, I have witnessed the quietly lived lives of integrity, goodness, dedication and prayer so priests often in my life who have inspired hugely. Isn’t it unfair to paint all clergy with the same stroke of horrid, vicious and nasty invective? I think the comnent by 3.01 is an utter disgrace. It’s a call to deliberately spit at priests, beat them, be violent. You surely don’t approve of this?

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@8:30pm I am not the original commenter and would not advocate violence because it is sinking to the level of the bishops who allowed all those children to be abused.
You do, however, need to engage with the fact that in the face of the many scandals and abuses which continue to go on in the church, anybody who is not actively working to stop them is facilitating these abuses, including by financing this shambles.
As for the supposedly holy religious – faith without works is dead and is a mere pious fraud.

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8.30
You are correct there are many Good Holy priests and it only takes a few bad apples to rot the cart.
The Priests on Killaloe Dioceses should be emailing and telephoning Fintan Monahan that Father Ger Fitzgerald and Father Gerry Carey is not welcome in the Presbyterate as they are both wrong.
However the clergy likely all know about Father Carey as the media covered it but the Bishop likely not told his clergy that Ger Fitzgerald was sleeping with parishioners until the complaint went in.
People of Cloughleigh should be told the truth and not listen to a word that comes out Ger Fitzgerald’s mouth.

Ger is so much in love with himself he thinks he has a fan club all over the world last night 26 of his fan club watched the gang of four – two singer, reader and Ger is is laughable.

Someone waking the Bishop up please.

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Brookside Close opening credits, 1992.
I used to love Brooky, I was gutted when Channel 4 decided to cut the show back in 2003, I suppose in the end the producers had gotten to the stage where they had run out of story lines – and television, and indeed the wider world, was changing… and for the better!
The world is indeed different from say, the 1970s or the 80s or 90s – the beginning of the Millennium say things like Health and Safety, Human Rights etc. become more of a practical reality.
Change is good, it is also necessary; and when things change make for a safer and better world and society, for all, that is not just better — it is friggin’ fantastic! x
. https://youtu.be/_81B0jVdv1Q

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The Northern Diocese should be amalgamated and added to a mainland UK diocese. Either Scottish or English I don’t care. It would be a far more sensible solution. Get rid of the Nordies from the Irish Church, they don’t belong, they have been with the Borg too long, time for their assimilation

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It would be great in Clogher if we divided the diocese, with the parts of the diocese in UK (Fermanagh & Tyrone) having a hard border with Monaghan, Donegal and Louth. We could get rid of the Monaghan bogmen and keep UK-born sophisticates such as La Flynn, Peter O’Reilly and Joe McGuinness.

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Does anyone know the current whereabouts of Fr Anthony Doe of Westminster please? I have heard some shocking stuff today and Fr Doe is hard to track down???

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9.35pm: A very easy, lazy and disingenuous comment. Yes, grave criminal acts were perpetrated in the past – horrendous and the cover ups, unforgivable. I do not accept your view that we are all complicit. No. As for “faith without good works” – my daily commitment and ministry is not “empty” or “just mere talk”. Never was, never will be, with God’s grace. Promoting violence and possible fatal injury on any person is criminal and morally repugnant. Disgusting narratives….

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Funny that. I didn’t think you would. You’re right up there with all those bishops claiming not to realise that child abuse was illegal….

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