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KERRY DIOCESE – ALL IS NOT WELL.

Browne

Clerical sources in Kerry diocese tell me that not all is well down there.

The bishop, Ray Browne, a blow in from the Elphin diocese, has never won the hearts of the Kerry priests because of his strange, disagreeable personality, his expectation of obedience even in small things and his emphasis on money and fundraising.

THE FATHER SEAN “KING PUCK” JONES AFFAIR.

Slimned down Sean

The ordination of Sean Jones has frozen relationships between Browne and the clergy.

On the one hand, a number of priests strongly advised Browne not to ordain Jones. Browne did not like being told what to do and resentment set in.

Then Browne, after making Jones sign an addidavit denying what was on this blog about him and denying that the jock pic was of him went on and ordained Jones.

Browne now sees priestly support for his decision about Jones the litmus test of priestly loyalty. And many priests still disagree with Browne’s actions.

Jones is a curate in Tralee and by all accounts is very underworked and spends a lot of time on his computer in his rooms.

Browne forbids and criticism of Jones.

Some Kerry priests think that Jones will not last in the priesthood.

This would be a disaster for Browne as he has bet on his money on King Puck.

Could Browne survive an “I told you so” outcome?

THE MARK MORIARITY CASE

Mark Moriarty

Mark Moriarty has been a friend to King Puck and Chris Derwin from Maynooth days.

The Maynooth “shadow” hangs over him.

Browne has him currently living alone in Kilcummin parochial house – a very dtrange arrangement for a seminarian – who should surely be helping out in a parish?

Priests are requested not to visit him?

Clerical rumour is that Browne is not to ordain him?

Then why keep the poor lad hanging on?

And there is the gin?

80 replies on “KERRY DIOCESE – ALL IS NOT WELL.”

I’ve never heard of a sem living alone in a presbytery. It sounds strange and even frightening to be alone away out in the middle of nowhere. He should be in a presbytery with other priests, at his family home or in Maynooth.

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Tell me more about the Gin?
My first hand experiences of Browne are mixed. Behind the scenes he can be doing the right things pastorally and supportively, but continues to actively portray a united front for the organisation. A mixed bag I guess for impressions but will side with the institution no matter the mess.

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Bishop Browne has covered his episcopal backside by having King Puck swear an affidavit. If it goes tits up, and you can be sure that it will, then Browne only has to invoke the affidavit – after all who would risk perjury and prison time to get ordained? Browne has been pretty smart to be honest.

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12.06
You do not go to prison for a civil matter as that is what an affidavit is a legal document between two people.
So this just gives Bishop Browne the freedom of Sean Jones just walking away if he breaks it.
Jones know the Church would not want the publicity so rather be made a liar he would just walk away.
Prisons are for CRIMINALS not civil law breakers.
Archbishop Jude got Big Tom to sign paperwork so it is easier to kick Big Tom out if it were needed.
Both are Civil issues.

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It’s not a civil matter you swear it before a commissioner of oaths or a solicitor. If you lie under oath you commit the criminal offence of perjury.

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Lying under oath to a solicitor of the senior courts is either civil or criminal contempt of court. Both civil and criminal contempts may be punished by imprisonment. A party may make an application to commit the contemnor to prison, or, in some circumstances, the court may commit a party to prison for contempt of its own initiative. Given the potentially serious consequences, any contempt must be proved to the criminal standard of proof. Civil contempt proceedings are, therefore, often described as being quasi-criminal or criminal in nature.

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The constitution in the Republic prevents the State getting involved in the ordinary running of religious organisations. The State Court will not directly or indirectly enforce celibacy or chastity. Plus questions of duress would only serve to mitigate any possible effect. It’s all just codswallop.

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Am I right in my understanding that for abusers and those who assist them to have been found to have told big fat lies in Civil Court affidavits, especially in the case of safeguarding matters, is still classes as proper perjury which is punishable the same way as in a criminal court? ?

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Saying something that is not true in an affidavit is technically a violation of the law and you can be fined or even imprisoned for committing perjury. It is just like lying on the stand in a court proceeding. “Perjury” is a legal term that essentially means that you have lied under oath.

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I do not think swearing a false affidavit IN A NON COURT MATTER is a criminal offence.

It is covered under morality as LIES.

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What makes it problematic is the oath. I think it also varies on the situation for example if the affidavit goes to court or is about finance. It isn’t easy without legal advice to say what would happen in this case. In the UK with its precedent based law that legal advice would probably be difficult to come by because who on Earth would expect this situation?
I suspect the legal advice would be that this situation is so ridiculous that no solicitor or court would touch it!

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The deponent would have sworn the following: “I swear by Almighty God] that this is my name (King Puck) and handwriting and that the contents of this my affidavit are true and that these are the exhibits referred to.” Exhibit A (photograph of obese lad in a jock strap).

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It should be no wonder why young people will not trust the authorities in the church with their vocation and their future. It is evident they are not credible in roles of such responsibility. Each day many people are subjected to clerics whose actions and attitudes are characterized by a preference for self-preservation, a reticence in dealing equitably with people who are not otherwise protected and a terrible proclivity to distort the truth in their own favor by gossiping among themselves. These attributes are clear for any reasonable person to observe and therefore to avoid all unnecessary contact with.

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De Integro, it is little wonder that we non clerics laugh at and ridicule the priestly caste, their mission and messages. What better demonstration of their uselessness than their behaviour as now constantly revealed worldwide?

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I wouldn’t like to think I’m ridiculing anyone and certainly wouldn’t go as fair as ridiculing the mission and message of priesthood which I think is good news for the world, even today. However, I really do believe that a lot of cynicism and evil has made its way into the clerical structure, too much security and not even self-sacrifice perhaps.

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Being “underworked” is hardly an unusual state of affairs over the past fourteen months, Bp Pat, whether you are a priest or not. I wonder what Fr Sugar Ray has been doing also this time.

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I don’t think being underworked is anything new to most clergy even at the best of times. Clergy are masters of their own timetable and routine, by and large, and most in my experience are able to take full advantage of that. I rarely meet a priest who will have worked a full 8 hour day. And often what they think of as work is time at home, Work and priest do not sit well in the same sentence.

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Affidavit’s
At the end of the day it is only two pieces of paper between King Puck and Ray Browne and only worth anything if at all on a Canonical Trial in who do you believe the Bishop or King Puck.
It is the same with the piece of paper that Archbishop Jude got Big Tom to sign it is only useful in a canonical trial.
No one is going to waste money with Lawyers for affidavit as it comes down to who said what and really if there is no Sheriff Officers or Court of Arms then it is paperless.
Anyone can change things on a PC they forge driving licenses and other ID for the fun of it
It comes to TRUTH and LIES.

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Fr Sugar Ray could not have done any worse than the UK’s hopeless entry in Saturday’s Eurovision song contest; nul points from the jury vote AND nul points from the public vote was the first time it has happened in the competition history.

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I didn’t see any of the Eurovision. Heard the Italians are in a bit of bother over recreational drug use live on TV.
Pádraig Harrington and Shane Lowry enjoyed a jolly good round of golf in the PGA Championship.

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Like most UK offerings these days: going down the plughole fast. The Cons, yes con artists, will continue to bleed the UK dry and line their own pockets.
There’ll be few changes until Labour agrees collaborative voting strategies with minority parties and introduces proportional representation.
MMM

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MMM finger on the political pulse. Not.

We had a referendum in the UK on PR for Parliamentary elections and comprehensively rejected it.

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It is disturbing enough to know that these two young men appear to have limited futures. I think the evidence is clear enough that Jones is the man in the picture and does have a murky past, and this is eventually going to drag him down. As to Moriarty, it is clear that it has already been established that he is not fit for ordination and the kindest thing to do here is for him to be put out of his misery and moved on to forge a new life. However, what is most disturbing about this story is the bishop, and in particular the sense that he has made Jones, and perhaps other things, matters of personal loyalty for his clergy. There is a sense of clergy not being happy with the decisions made by the bishop and yet fearful and powerless to do anything about it, and if they do they know that there will be retribution for them. This is the kind of thing you get in a system that is still based on mediaeval patronage and effectively puts unaccountable power in the hands of one man, the bishop. This kind of looming and threatening management which is unaccountable is something that is not tolerated in any other bit of society, and should be called out, not by internal Church channels, but by society itself. It is a system that has had its day and bishops need to realise that they are not God, He does not speak to them alone, and that they cannot bully their priests and people to do their will, especially when it is clearly flawed.

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@12:57. The UK referendum on voting reform for Parliamentary elections was for AV (Alternative Vote) not PR, and was indeed rejected.

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All is not well in a lot of Dioceses. You could do a blog Pat on every Diocese each day in Ireland, England, Scotland, Wales, and more. All is definitely not well.

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8.37. This is the sort of generalised, imprecise comment that does nothing helpful to describe the situation of the Church in the UK. ‘All is not well’ could mean anything. Without a close description of what a Church that is well might be, we cannot assess critical claims about this or that diocese. Fog rather than piercing light is presented as if it is a key feature of an analysis. I am very sorry to say that the post is a nonsense.

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The comment is generalized because it refers to the general situation across dioceses. To enumerate details would require endless comments.
All is not well means there is very little going right and this is perfectly intelligible to anyone sensible.

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Check out the film Clergy on Netflix – it’s hilarious and insightful given the way the Archbishop of Gdańsk was despatched by Francis – my God it has everything alcoholic priests, fornicating priests, procuring abortion priests. ambitious priests, very greedy priests and corrupt priests – it’s not just a window into Poland I reckon choose any diocese in the world and certainly closer to home (Ireland, UK, Scotland) and you’d find similar shenanigans.
Every and any problem faced by them is answered with cash – loads of cash in plastic bags.
Exposed like this the Catholic Church looks like a. criminal racket and enterprise.
Seems to me like Polish Catholics are catching on and I reckon 50 years the pot will have run dry because there is only so much criminality and scandal anyone can take.
Yeah yeah I know there are some good priests blah blah but the system, the pattern, the model sucks and stinks to high heaven.

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Watched it last night – fantastic. The laity in Poland are waking up to how corrupt their clergy are. What happened to that young far right neo nazi priest? He is briefly portrayed

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And don’t forget the church owned the publisher Weltbild which published porn. It’s only a matter of time before we find they own abortion clinics.

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seamus viii boring fart alert. Talks through his arse about inane issues whilst trying to be relevant. Proper bore. He is the one you would run to avoid in any social setting.

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I meant, if somebody tells blatant lies in a Civil court affidavit, which caused an innocent person to be given a suspended prison sentence, would they be in big trouble? ?

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1.28
They very seldom place anyone in a prison for Civil offences because if they did they would need to build prisons and children’s homes to accommodate everyone.
The only people that makes money from an affidavit is lawyers.
If an affidavit were successful then I am sure many Bishops would try one on Bishop Pat but what is the use he could just change it to Pat’s blog.

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If an individual knowingly makes a false a statement in an affidavit they commit an offence of perjury or contempt of court and could be fined or imprisoned. It goes to the very heart of the administration of justice and the consequences for lying on oath should not be trivialised. And solicitors make a pittance in England and Wales for swearing an affidavit which is still a fiver and two quId for each exhibit.

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12.54: De Integro. I like your fair and balanced comment. It stands in stark contrast to the other irrational comments from people with a horrible vindictive spirit. In fact, I accept much of the analysis and criticisms of the church and priesthood as presented. I share the conclusion that the Church institution is seriously damaged and broken because of its abdication of moral responsibility for all the abuses, hurt and harm done to so many people, sexually, emotionally, mentally and spiritually. The truth matters and the integrity of the Church and priesthood have been corroded and almost irreparably damaged. Most priests are aware of the deficit of credibility and trust towards us and try to do their work in ministry in the ideal which we accepted and seek to live up to. In this many of us fail, some more ignominiously than others. As the years have unfolded for me – almost 45 years – the concept, meaning and expectations of priesthood have radically changed, to the point where I am confused. However, the message of the gospel is one I believe is worth holding on to and sharing with others. The priesthood has allowed me to do this in very powerful ways but the sense of our relevance is moved to the fringes. This has been accentuated for my by the pandemic…How can we, as priests, be faithful to Christ alone that sustains us as priests in a meaningful way in today’s society? A question I battle with….Now more than ever, trust in God, prayer and the true spirituality of the gospel are essential.

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You are part of the ministerial church and, therefore, are part of the problem, at 3.50.
You’re a hypocrite.

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5.03
You must be a priest too if that is the best response you can make.
My comment at 4.58 is truthful and accurate. The poster at 3.50 failed to acknowledge his part in the moral mess the ministerial Church has become; in fact, he was virtually presenting himself on a par with Christ: a crucified innocent. Absolutely unbelievable.
Magna is right. (And no, I am not Magna) Priesthood, hierarchy, and all the rest is the fundamental flaw in the Church. When will people waken up to this truth?

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3.50
Be close to your people come out of the Presbytery and see people are going to food banks while you have steak.
Tell your Bishop that the people do NOT want the double life clergy they want honest clergy.
Encourage the clergy to leave that is really making a clown of the people like King Puck, Ger, Gerry to name a few.
The days are over the people have seen through it all.
Some parishes cannot even get 50 people in just now they are struggling however what we will see soon is people being told YOU must be in the pews for the Real Presence not on a screen (Money).
They have got round the Votive candles now put your money in the box and the pass keepers / stewards will light the candles for you. maybe 30 – 50 euros or pence each.

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Fr Sean is blessing a picture of you Pat right now he’s sprinkling it with the holiest of waters
Loser

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3.50pm
The Catholic priesthood is a failed and corrupt institution – given the tens of thousands of perpetrators and victims of child abuse and given the primal and divine thirst for truth and justice I believe (maybe not in my lifetime) a time will come when the Catholic Church will be found guilty of Crimes Against Humanity and to be a Catholic priest will be more akin to being a suffering servant – hated, despised, loathed, mocked and ridiculed (if it is not already) and maybe then, and only then, might there be some green shoots of recovery.
Being a Catholic should be so much more than being a priest – surely baptism is a greater grace than holy orders – I sometimes feel ashamed that a Catholic mindset is that God can only be mediated through the administration of sacraments as if God can be boxed in, limited and reduced to seven sacraments.
Cardinal Hume used to taunt: ‘No priests – no sacraments.’ Very well then no sacraments but prayer meetings, Bible studies, fellowship and outreach – who needs a priest – oh yes Catholics need a priest to live and practice their faith – like infantilised children – what a load of complete bollox.

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Excellent post at 5.06.
Cardinal Hume was another of those fools who believed that grace was a commercial product that belonged to priests and that, like shopkeepers, priests could dispense at will.
I’m no fan of the paedophile defender Pope Francis, but even he said that the Sacraments do not belong to priests.

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Laity has been banned as a vocation, and Francis himself is enforcing the frequent eucharist fad of Pius X and JP II (which denies politicians tactful cover) while overturning the teaching of Leo XIII – the Holy Spirit Pope – on subsidiarity: subsidiarity = REAL communion.

Those laity and clergy who don’t look to the Vatican and its satellites are hanging onto real doctrine if they had some already.

As for affidavits (for use in a Vatican court) this is because the Vatican doesn’t have standards for sexual propriety in chastity / celibacy / morality, either as doctrines or as church order; therefore the only thing the Vatican could nail a hypothetical Puck on is lying against an affidavit.

When there were half a dozen entrants to seminary per diocese per year I doubt their pictures and interviews would have been put in a diocesan newspaper and it would surely have been something everyone would cope with if they didn’t get ordained.

Either a hypothetical Puck “has something” on a hypothetical Browne, or said hypothetical Browne has a horror of being seen to have a dropout rate from those sole ones recruited in the glare of publicity.

Why not appoint a Vocations Diverter and advertise the virtues in not having one? Wouldn’t we get more takers that way?

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5:06pm

Have you tried Presbyterianism, or the Pentecostalists? Better for your soul to be a good Protestant than a lukewarm or lapsed Catholic.

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It’s not good for any soul, or body, to be a Catholic these days, especially a fervent (compliant) one.😅

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@5:06pm – The priesthood is not a “failed and corrupt institution”. For the tens of thousands of betrayers and abusers, there are hundreds of thousands who hurt no one and did only good.

And the Catholic “mindset” does not limit God to the Sacraments.

We faithful Catholics see through your prejudiced narrative. It is a lie.

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10s of thouands of priests who hurt no one?? They hurt children when they knew that other priests were abusing them but kept quiet about it. They are ALL abusers in one way or another.

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5.06pm anon
Interesting when u said as if God boxed in, limited and reduced to seven sacraments as if packaged into a commercial product.
During the lockdown, we had no access to 7 sacraments whatsoever (baptism, HC, confirmations, marriage, holy orders, anointing, confessions).
Marriage sacraments came into being circa 12th century. Baptism was mentioned in the bible but not other 6. Care to comment on this?
What did we live on without these 7 sacraments during lockdown after lockdown?

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5.03: The 4.58 brat is moronic. His comment is probably the limit of his vocabularly. An idiot, still in his school boy shorts…

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5.21: You have deliberately misinterpreted my comment of 3.50. I never put myself on par with “Christ Crucified”. I wouldn’t t be so pretentious or spiritually arrogant. Yes, I believe in Christ and seek to be like him. Your logic is fallacious. I will always truthfully attest to my own efforts at “being” and “living” like Christ, which I sometime fail at. I have endeavoured to be sincere, genuine and faithful to what was asked of me almost 45 years ago. Not a hero just a trier. The horrendous criminal abuses and corresponding cover ups are repugnant to me as they are to you. Fact and truth. If it pleases you to perpetuate a lie that we are all criminals, then do so but lies are not helpful: we are not all “at it”. No need to be gratuitously offensive.

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5.32: Sometimes you are better not to respond to vicious, nasty trolls, like 5.21. They only see through the lens of bigotry, vengeance and hatred. Indeed, his ilk would spit at you in the street! Let him try it with me…!!

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5:32 I think more of this is on the way – in fact you say so yourself.
5:21 – you’re being very unfair. It is well known the clergy don’t see themselves as suffering Christs, rather as miracle workers wandering through Waitrose. Meanwhile their abusive colleagues are busy crucifying Christ again in the bodies of children.
What a disgrace.

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7.50: Very strange, confusing and mixed up comment. Don’t think you know your mind!

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Cardinal Hume was the beloved of the English Catholic establishment but I’m sure had he lived longer he’d have to answer for his obsequious and sycophantic relationship with the UKs most prolific child abuser Jimmy Saville (fighting tooth and nail for Saville to get membership of the Atheneum Club), covering up and moving on monk paedophiles and the government intervention regarding Ampleforth admitting any more pupils. Staggering incompetency and breathtaking poor judgement.
He was a player and having a tincy wincy bit of aristocratic blue blood he milked it rotten.
This much I know he liked pretty seminarians, seemed blind to women and socially indifferent to laymen.
The monastery such a safe haven for closeted and repressed homosexuals.
And what a stupid refrain: No Priests, No Sacraments – as if he was taunting No Priests, No God.
Worlock, Hume, CMOC, Nichols all Magic Circle but the magic is wearing thin – just hope and pray that the rabbit pulled from the hat isn’t Stock, a company man if ever there was one and more of the same. Mind you the world is full of surprises.

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6.35: “Flamboyant” not “fanboyant”….🤠🤠🤠…

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Raymond 1 of Kerry is a Theologian at heart. If its written in the law that’s it. This affidavit is not worth the paper its written on. Judge by the present and not predict solely based on the past. I am concerned about the lad in exile in the principality of Brownton. Is this exile legal and is there a safeguarding issue raised by all of this A Fr Brown Mystery?. This one needs uncovering

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Why did Fr Sugar Ray think he should enter Britain’s Got Talent? He’s not British and doesn’t live in the UK. I could understand the X Factor and it had auditions in Ireland but why BGT? Am I missing something?

Would an English person living in England apply to go on Ireland’s Got Talent?

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Pat you have to laugh at the way these cathbots like each other’s comments. I suppose they think it’s supporting the church or in some way restoring its train wreck reputation.
Do they seriously think we don’t know they’re all bitching over their gins really and would whack you with their maniple soon as look at you.

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10.28: And I suppose you think you’re a bright star? You are a simpleton. A childish, low intelligence comment. Plonker.

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