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YOU EITHER HAVE FAITH OR YOU DON’T HAVE FAITH.

Everyone knows about my fallout with the RCC and my total disillusionment with it, but by the grace of God, and it alone, to date, I have never had either:

1. A crisis of faith.

2. A crisis of vocation.

One of my prayers has always been: “O Lord, let me go into my coffin as a priest”.

Of course, I am constantly struggling with the thoughts of how God works – particularly how he allows people to suffer and how he allows mind boggling natural disasters.

But then, as a limited human being how could I hope to understand God and his ways?

I am a catholic Christian and as such I believe firmly in:

The existence of God.

The Trinity.

The Bible – properly read and interpreted.

The Seven Sacraments.

The Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist.

Prayer.

These things and my relationship with God have given my life deep meaning for many decades now.

Most of the time, I like others, travel the humdrum road of life.

Occasionally, I have felt the presence of God permeating me and at such times I am confirmed in both my faith and vocation.

I believe God to be the epitome of Good.

I believe Satan to be the epitome of Evil.

From the beginning of time we Christians believe, there has been a struggle between Good and Evil and during our lifetimes we are caught up in that struggle – internally and externally.

The life of faith is a joy to those with faith.

To those without faith, it is unfathomable.

And its got nothing to do with intelligence.

In fact, its got more to do with simplicity and childlikeness.

Its about approaching life with more of the heart rather than the head.

COCK ROACH

Our Rome Correspondent Writes


Not only did Roche bankrupt the Leed’s diocese as bishop with his endless vanity projects, he also was involved in some financial shenanigans when he was private secretary to Bishop Gordan Wheeler – who doted upon his flaxen haired Yorkshire lad!

To have been removed from your diocese once may be considered unfortunate, but twice… Well, it did him no harm. The first time he had to “go away” he was sent to Rome to study for a Licence in Spirituality at the Gregorian University. This is hardly a course for theological high flyers.

The Degree’s themselves are readily available in the university WC, above the toilet paper dispensers with the notice “STL in Spirituality – Please Take One”. Roche never completed the course, let alone obtain the qualification (though he uses the letters after his name), as he was swept off his feet in his first few months in the Eternal City and appointed Spiritual Director [sic] of the Venerable English College.

You see Arfur bewitched the then idiot rector Edna Toffee Loo… and the rest as they say is history. Or is it? Well his friendship with onetime Cardiff priest Fr JJ hasn’t done him any harm and the Red Biretta awaits. Pope Bergolio won’t hear a word against him and so his appointment is assured. By the way it’s worth nothing that the financial mess that he caused twice in Leeds wasn’t cleared up by current Bishop Stock.

That was done by the excellent John Wilson, now archbishop of Southwark and my tip to succeed Vinnie. Mark my words the chubby young prelate is the one to put your money on.

101 replies on “YOU EITHER HAVE FAITH OR YOU DON’T HAVE FAITH.”

11.32pm That, my fried, is ridiculous. Egan is disliked by his fellow Bishops. He is extremely conservative and, at his inaugural sermon in front of episcopal colleagues, said that he would be an ‘orthodox bishop’, implying they were not orthodox. That went down very badly indeed. The horse-riding, all things hunting and shooting Bishop Moth is middle order – not the man for Westminster. Watch tubby Wilson.

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Yep, I reckon it’s going to be Tubby Wilson, and they are just keeping Vinnie on for a bit longer so that TW can get a bit of experience under his – not inconsiderable – belt. Then they will move him to Westminster. Although he is still young, so someone like Longley could fill the gap before Wilson moves across The Thames ?

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Upon his appointment as Secretary to CDWDS on 26 June 2012 the Vatican Press Office issued the following press release. It claims Rev Roche obtained an STL in spiritual theology:
NOMINA DEL SEGRETARIO DELLA CONGREGAZIONE PER IL CULTO DIVINO E LA DISCIPLINA DEI SACRAMENTI
Il Papa ha nominato Segretario della Congregazione per il Culto Divino e la Disciplina dei Sacramenti S.E. Mons. Arthur Roche, finora Vescovo di Leeds, elevandolo in pari tempo alla dignità di Arcivescovo.
S. E. Mons. Arthur Roche
S.E. Mons. Arthur Roche è nato a Batley Carr, nella diocesi di Leeds, il 6 marzo 1950. Ha compiuto gli studi a Christleton Lodge a Chester e, poi, al Collegio Inglese di Valladolid, Spagna. È stato ordinato sacerdote il 19 luglio 1975 per la diocesi di Leeds.
Dopo tre anni di ministero come vicario parrocchiale a Barnsley, è diventato Segretario del Vescovo di Leeds, S.E. Mons. Gordon Wheeler. Allo stesso tempo è stato anche cappellano della St. John Bosco School a Leeds e vice cancelliere della diocesi. Ha coordinato la visita del Santo Padre Giovanni Paolo II a York nel 1982. Per sei anni ha lavorato come vicario parrocchiale della cattedrale e, poi, è diventato parroco della parrocchia St Wilfrid a Leeds.
Nel 1991 è stato inviato a Roma per proseguire gli studi alla Pontificia Università Gregoriana, dove ha ottenuto la licenza in teologia spirituale. Per quattro anni ha svolto l’incarico di Direttore Spirituale al Venerabile Collegio Inglese a Roma. Dal 1996 fino alla sua nomina episcopale è stato Segretario Generale della Conferenza Episcopale d’Inghilterra e Galles.
Eletto Vescovo titolare di Rusticiana ed Ausiliare di Westminster il 12 aprile 2001, ha ricevuto la consacrazione episcopale il 10 maggio successivo. È stato anche Presidente del Department of Pastoral Affairs di Westminster.
Il 16 luglio 2002 il Beato Giovanni Paolo II lo ha nominato Vescovo Coadiutore di Leeds (Inghilterra), ed è succeduto per coadiutura il 7 aprile 2004.

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+Pat: On reading this blog on Faith, it comes across as your defensive response to the many hard questions recently posed questioning the whole religious scenario.
As I’ve said before: when hard questions seeking evidence of religious faith beliefs are put to staunch believers, their default responses, for lack of anything else, is invariably that weak and insipid, “You must have faith.”
In relation to religion, and particularly Catholicism, why should I have any faith in the religious beliefs of such a currently discredited institution?
MMM

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MMM

Faith is just that. There is no scientific evidence or proof. If there was it would be knowledge and not faith.

I have lost ALL FAITH in the institutional RCC.

But I still have faith in God.

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I lost all faith in the RC Institution a few years ago, it is the Devil’s playground and a very dangerous place for any who take their faith in Christ and the Gospels even reportedly seriously. Even more so for those who believe in truth, light and justice for the afflicted and abused!

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12.08: MMM: Many scientists are of a deeply committed faith perspective and see no difficulty in reconciling their faith with science. There are obviously many things that science alone can answer and explain. Faith isn’t about scientific proof of anything. Faith as we understand it thriugh the lens of christianity or any faith system is about surrendering to a higher being – God – and accepting the presence of this God as the source of all life and creation. For billions in our wirld, faith and religious systems are integral to their lives as a source of power, strength, guidance, wisdom, intelligence and truth. However we define God or faith or religious belief, the reality is that these are truths deeply embedded in our conscious and sub conscious mind. For me, I cannot imagine my life without faith in God or a religious belief. My doubting mind, my curiosity about the questions you ask, my ongoing seeking for truth, desire for answers, scientific or otherwise, sit comfortably side by side with me. When I look at a marvellous piece of architecture or a tiny bird or a Rembrandt painting or listen to a piece of Bach or read the poetry of Mary Oliver, Yeats, Emily Bronte or absorb the ingenuity of space travel, I am very often briught to incredible mystery, awe and wonder. My faith is nourished and enriched by everything I see around me and of course in and through the person of Jesus.

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9.37. Which goes to show just how deeply embedded childhood influences subsequently reinforced by communal experiences provide the emotional and psychological religious perspective to one’s beliefs and outlook on life.
MMM

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Cock Roach did get besotted at the VEC with his directees. Another was AS who has since left the priesthood. I recall an incident involving a wardrobe but the specifics allude me in my dotage…

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If Roche never completed and was awarded his STL, why is he using the postnominals ? That’s fraud.

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All RC bishops have DDs, totally made up ones that aren’t even honorary doctorates. Eg “Dr” Joe Duffy of Clogher, whose highest earned academic award was a Maynooth MA.

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Karl Rahner SJ was not only one of the architects of modern Roman Catholic theology but also a master of the spiritual life. In, ‘The Practice of Faith-A Handbook of Contemporary Spirituality,’ we discover, at the heart of his extraordinary philosophical gift is a deep and simple faith, penetrated with a rare passion for the incomprehensible God- but all the more genuine for that- human intimacy, and goodness. His was an antithesis of an introverted piety as passion for inquiry was a basic ingredient of his theology. His boldness of boundless inquiry was a trait of one who knows that he does not produce the truth, but that the truth is given him as a gift, after all his creative searching. Theology can never be anything but the endlessly renewed questions, the rumination of the Word given in the Church as confession and commitment. Too many, Rahner seems a free-floating thinker, but this can be the judgement of someone who is ignorant of Rahners biblical grounding. In, ‘The Practice of Faith-A Handbook of Contemporary Spirituality’, Rahner addresses questions such as; Why am I a Christian today; The situation of Faith Today; Experiencing The Spirit; Prayer; Love; Love For God and Human Beings; Hope; The Theology of Peace; Jesus Christ as the Meaning of Life; Eternity from Time.
“ Drink”.

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Dear Dr, Dr Hackett (you came by that ph.d in a hurry), ‘drink’? Of Rahner? As I believe his own brother said of him: If only he would write something we could all understand.

I doubt whether God could understand the convoluted pretension written by Rahner. I’m sure he found Rahner more ‘incomprehensible’ than the other way round.

Rahner was a theologian for himself, I’m afraid, not for the Church, so I question your claim that he was an architect of modern theology.

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Damnit I was going to comment that Fr’s description of God as incomprehensible was a better description of Rahner’s theology 😅

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Once again we find the vilification of Archbishop Roach. Clearly, your ‘Rome correspondent’ knows nothing about the Archbishop who has offered exemplary service to the Church. He speaks Italian, Spanish, French and German. He is a fine Latinist. There are few who surpass his excellence as a liturgist. Known for his pastoral qualities when in Leeds, Roche has spent a lifetime many would envy. Please stop this nastiness, that is so undeserved. My goodness, when honoured with red he will bring great distinction to the Church in England and Wales.

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Faith is more complex and at the same time more nuanced than the kind of faith that the Catholic Church puts forward, which is usually a contrived, nicely fitted together, set of nonsense proposals. I guess God, whoever He or She or It is, has a good giggle about the silliness being talking about Him / Her or It. I just wish the Catholic Church would treat us like adults and stop feeding us with all this pious shit. I prefer to make my own mind up, to see through things like apparitions in Lourdes, or Real Presence in the Eucharist, or the ontological obstacle to women standing at the altar. Do they really think that I’m that stupid to swallow all the stuff they churn out ? My view is that increasingly people are thinking creatively and speculatively for themselves as they search for the truth. When the troops start to make up their own minds, then the Generals need to start worrying !

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Agreed@ 8. 33: I am encouraged that recent comments here, like yours, show that increasingly, people have rejected RCC straitjacket conformity, and in your words, “people are thinking creatively and speculatively for themselves as they search for the truth .”
MMM

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I am hard wired for faith. I am a layperson who meditates and reads a lot of theology. I have never had any faith in the institutional church. I do not need anyone to tell me what to think about gay people or birth control. A lot of churches are about control. They get in the way of your relationship with God.

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Many parishioners and priests are not institutionalised. They reject satan and abhor the scandals. They are humble followers of Christ with love in their hearts through the 10 Commandments.

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Sir Harry Secombe’s version of a Mario Lanza Classic from the Student Prince.
Timeless – a message for us all in our walk with God.

I’ll walk with God – Sir Harry Secombe & Lyrics

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9:22 am Your point might be taken seriously if it bore a grain of truth. It does not. You should stop believing everything vindictive people say on here. No, he will be a fine Cardinal.

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There is more than just scientific or empirical rationalism that keeps people from faith in God: there is also self-interest, greed, sexual licence, worldliness, etc. We see this today in so many who pay lip service to Christ, and to faith in him, especially in priests. So you are not alone, MMM, in having reason to reject the existence of God.

So where is that blasted needle in this haystack of grounds for unbelief? If you really wish to know, God will provide you with sufficient reason to believe and trust, but only if your mind is open to the possibility of his existence. Jesus could not persuade many religionists in his day that he was God, even when he raised the dead. Do you truly believe things would be any different were he to return in our time? Sometimes abundance is never enough for some, even when it is cornucopic. The problem isn’t always lack of reason to believe: the problem is often unwillingness to believe. There is a difference, and it is one some atheists fail to acknowledge in themselves.

Atheists might claim that Christians believe about Christ what they choose to believe. The same could be said of atheists.

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Yes, you can believe in evolution if you want to.
Magna you may be amused that in the US anti-covid-vaxxers have started wearing masks to protect themselves from any effects from the vaccine if someone vaccinated comes near them!

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10.46

That’s interesting.

‘Dogmatism’ isn’t an accusation that can be hurled, like a stone, at religionists: it can come, too from the most militant unbelievers, including atheists.

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Magna: I don’t “reject” the existence of God inasmuch as I cannot prove a “non-existence.” Similarly I cannot disprove the possibility that huge teapots circle the furthest planets in Alpha Centauri! My reality is simply that I am unwilling to ignore my own fairly intelligent educated reasoning in favour of believing assertions concerning religion where no reliable proof is available for its central foundational claims. The discredited claims of religion, and the behaviour of its proponents offers little inclination towards having “faith” . And if this alleged God gave me these reasoning facilities why would He then ask me to ignore them?

So I can claim to have an open mind as to the existence of God. Indeed I could welcome He/She or It’s manifestation and confirmation of an “eternal life” in the hereafter. But I have to voice some reservation as to whether an eternity “glorifying Him” and singing His praises with the heavenly choir might be truly wonderful!
MMM

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1.03pm
The only way to a living faith is absolute total and complete surrender to God.

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Perhaps @2:11, the picture at top of this blog sums that up: surrendering reason to take a leap of faith to jump across that abyss in the hope of reaching the other side?
But how many of us would willingly stand on cliff edge ready to blindly jump?
MMM

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1.03
MMM, let God prove himself to you; he wants to.
Take as your compass Matthew 6: 25 through 34.
Talk to God, at least as though you believe he existed. Tell him everything you tell us on this blog, including those teapots that may be orbiting ‘Alpha Centauri’; God does have a sense of humour, too; it’s the origin of ours. That is prayer, MMM. Some priests might call this disrespectful; one I know probably would. But then, what do they know.

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Magna there’s long history of those talking to themselves being taken away by the men in white coats. Are you really advocating that someone who doesn’t believe in God should start talking to Him?

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7.33
What one doesn’t believe does not necessarily not exist. So it wouldn’t be madness ; just an adaptation of Pascal’s Wager. And you wouldn’t call Pascal mad, would you? 🤔

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I wonder Magna if it would be considered truly virtuous or praiseworthy for an aged person to succumb to the “hedge your bets” enticement of Pascal’s wager solely for selfish self interest. How might an all knowing God, if he exists, feel about such shallow motivation?

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10.52
How might God feel about such motivation? Hmm? Self-interest/preservation is scarcely ‘shallow’. Aren’t we worth saving from eternal damnation? Jesus thought we were.
You know what? I expect God would see this motivation as sensible as … well, as flat shoes, really; but, naturally, as the first step of many. God does so want us to raise our eschatological game by desiring eternal union with him not just for our salvation, but for love of the Almighty.
Oh! Almost forgot. I said ‘ADAPTATION of Pascal’s Wager’.

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3.27
MMM I did it and it worked. I was brought up as a Catholic and left as soon as I could. At 28 I gave birth to a child with disabilities after 2yrs of utter exhaustion I met a baptist minister. He talked about faith. I said I had non. He said the only way to a living faith is absolute total and complete surrender. I replied that that was terrifying. He replied it is, but it is the only way. He said you have a two year old and I am sure you have played the game where he stands on a step and says catch me. Would you let him fall. I said of course not. He replied and what makes you think you are better than. Jump and he will catch you. As I was really in the depth despair, I did and God caught me and lifted me up as the apple of his eye. All the Catholic masterpieces say that surrender is the only way. I came back to the Church and recoiled in horror at the corruption. I left again. I don’t need them between me and my God.

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Same could be said @ 10.39 for those of us who as seminarians, made the conscious choice to leave what we realised was not for us. I certainly see my departure as the beginning of my development. That is all the more apparent to me now when, from time to time, I have met former college colleagues. Those remaining as clerics are, for most part insipidly stuck in 1960’s mentality across a broad range of issues. Perhaps that is why they chose to use phrases like ‘not good enough ‘, rejects, failed priests etc.

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I am very happy for Bishop Roche. Well deserved. Hopefully a red hat soon. There are great Bishops in the Church. Would love to see a man of strong Faith and Courage get Westminister and another for Glasgow. Hope Eamonn Martin is in with a shout for the red hat or Dermot Farrel. Great Bishops. God bless Bishop Davis of Shrewsbury too, great Bishop. Please pray for our Bishops. Thank God we are blessed with wonderful Bishops.

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12.25
I am too delighted for Archbishop Roche.
However I think it will be a very sad day in Ireland if Eamon Martin get elevated and shocking as he could not manage a dioceses of 60 parishes he had to ask Charlie Brown for an Auxiliary and was grated one.
I sincerely hope Bishop Farrell obtains Irelands Red Beretta not Eamon Martin.

Glasgow really only one suitable for Glasgow would be Archbishop Leo Cushley and they will likely not transfer him from Edinburgh just like they will not likely transfer Archbishop John Wilson.

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1.17
Come on into 2021 of course some dioceses have inhouse solicitors and many more positions.
Accountants, Book Keepers, Admin, HR, PA’s, Drivers, cleaners, caretakers, telephonists, Comms people, statisticians, property assistants and that is to name a few.
Some dioceses deals with Millions in a year and it is cheaper inhouse.
Solicitors do not just deal with problems they have many duties like property transactions, Employment Contracts, Claims and much more.
There is also the Social Services side to the Church as well and they employ thousands.
The Catholic Church is a big organisation.

if wee Jeanie or Jimmy trips it is not oh Father I fell it is what is the claim.

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1.17
They possibly have a lot of redundant properties to sell. They are very short of cash. If you look up the Diocese of Lancaster on the Charity Commission website, it is also very short of money.

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In house solicitors are brought in not for anything else other than handling the plethora of litigation issues relating to child abuse – they will protest saying it’s to cover employment, charity law, etc blah blah but the solicitor is there solely and only to protect and cover the Archbishop and COO ass – I know it, you know it. everybody knows it – it’s all about mitigating loss and protecting the assets, which we all know sooner or later they will have to sell.

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Legal Eagle then you will know the also has and uses PI’S (Private Investigators) sadly it is the sign of the times when you have lying clergy and laity.

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@ 2:03 pm. And why do you think the Liverpool ex seminarian abuse victim is “obsessed”, as you call it? Pray do tell?
Is it because he was persistent in the face of corruption and the covering up of serious abuses, and has done an absolutely spectacular job, by the way… This will be revealed in the near future! Is that why @ 2:03 pm?

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Wilson is a good shout – he’s a mate of Cock Roche and is young so must be being primed – plus he’s got a PhD and by God do they love a Bishop with a doctorate. Bishop appointments are a bit like elections – given the quality of candidates- you know – anyone but Corbyn or anyone but Boris – anyone but Stock!.
Wonder what the odds are on Wilson and if Cock Roche is made a Cardinal (which he will be) will mean he and Elsie are in the running to be Pope!!

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Have they ever moved an Archbishop across the Thames before?
Doubt that would happen.
Mason or Morth for Westminster.

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If Paul Mason gets Westminster, the conspiracy theorists will be right when they claim the Church is run by Masons!

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1.48pm

Yeah keep telling yourself the solicitor is for a wide range of legal issues – bollox they serve an ass covering and asset covering function – dress it up as much as you like – even the Vatican doesn’t have an in house solicitor because they don’t need one because ass covering is the name of the game.
Elsies drubbing will have given the bishops an anal sphincter spasm (something some will be familiar with already) and their pooping their pants!!

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I like the idea that Cock Roches appointment will have pissed off the right wing Latin and Lace Brigade- Roche may know Latin but he ain’t a traditionalist or a conservative- he’s so close to Francis he’s virtually a Jesuit.

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Roche has no time for the lace Brigade at all. He is not fond of the ex Anglicans either. He has enemies in Westminster who will have squeaky bums. He defo has the ear of Francis. Best advice regarding Arthur is don’t cross him. A few in Westminster did! Don’t forget in Yorkshire, they are totally blunt and will tell it to your face upfront.

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So who does he like? Who are his kind of Catholic’s ?Who are the young men who say to themselves ‘I want to be just like him’?

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Roche knows Latin, but most of the lace and biretta Latin Mass Brigade, especially the younger ones, haven’t a clue about Latin. All they do is parrot it by rote. It’s a joke. They haven’t a clue what they are saying for the most part. If they think Latin Mass is. good thing, then at least have the decency and seriousness to go and learn some Latin. They are an embarrassing joke.

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Where are you going to find a good solicitor with experience of conveyancing, corporate law, charity law, Employment law, litigation and probate for 55K? In the UK solicitors specialise in an area of law and it would be most unusual to find someone who has got sufficient experience across all of those fields. A solicitor could command a salary like that in high street firm – so anyone they appoint is not going to be a high flyer.

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I’m sure they don’t want a high flyer, because a high flyer will point out far too much that’s wrong lol

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The Westminster VG is starting to drip-feed September parish appointments from this weekend’s parish newsletters. Oh for the days when all the appointments were published together in Westminster Record. I wonder if poor Monty will be on the move yet again.

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All the decided appointments were sent out in an email. There will be more appointments to be announced.

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3:26 pm If you are concerned about this matter please publish the names and information about the moves. It is a matter of public interest and you should respect that claim. Cowardice is not a good option at any time.

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8.49 I was just correcting the idea that names were being dripped out. Surely 3.01 will have all the info.

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3.01
The days of having the luxury of send out appointments once a year have gone.
Clergy changes can happen within two weeks and given the times we are in with an elderly clergy and clergy failing.
You just need to look this month at Killaloe two priests gone and one quiet young and the Bishop say how long is a piece of string for their return.

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If anybody would like to donate anything to Father Grant Paul Maddock’s Silver Jubilee, please follow this link below.
Father Grant is parish priest of Our Lady’s and St Gregory the Great, Lydiate, ( Now the parish of St. Catherine of Alexandria ) of the Archdiocese of Liverpool.
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+ + +
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httpss://www.justgiving.com/crowdfunding/ged-gatenby

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DEACON MUCHAEL JACK BYRNE.

I saw on Twitter that Michael Jack Byrne. aka Gorgeous has been accepted to do a Masters in Counselling and Psychotherapy. What a fine young man he has turned out to be

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Thats good news.

He is talented and has a lot to give.

I wish him well in his new field.

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That’s rich after persecuting this man. You really do take the biscuit. You are scum Buckley. He says you still pester him on his mobile. You are a perv stalker leech.

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Reading his twitter comments – one can see he is respected by doctors, nurses and other health-care professionals. This witch hunt is borne out of immature jealously.

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Arthur Roche and Vincent Nichols told Pope Francis not to lift your automatic excommunication. More so Roche. You have been unfair to JP II Pat who was going to lift it at the request of Tomás Ó Fiaich but his health declined. Records will soon be released and prove the point.

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6:14

You cannot be a real friend of MJB or have his interest at heart.

What you claim is absolute nonsense.

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8.07: You, Pat, a supposed christian pastor, did not have his (MB) good at heart. Most definitely not. Cop on.

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You Dear, don’t know the whole story. And I’ll not be telling you.

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You sound a really hateful, spiteful and nasty man. The records will show as the poster indicates.

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Pat Buckley says: “I am a catholic Christian and as such I believe firmly in:

The existence of God.

The Trinity.

Riding rent boys

The Bible – properly read and interpreted.

The Seven Sacraments.

The Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist”.

Let’s face it. You owe most of what you believe to the Roman Catholic Church whether you like it or not.

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Brilliant riposte!

What he doesn’t know is that any truth in the Roman Catholic Church is in turn owed to Christ as ‘the way, the TRUTH, and the life’. But historically, they don’t acknowledge their debt to him; instead, they attribute ‘their’ truth to ‘sacred magisteria’ : to fat, worldly bishops.

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We all reject the evil, Pat. The weeds and the wheat grow side by side until the harvest.

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Today blog has shown that pat is still embedded in rcc ways as he owes to rcc. Perhaps it’s time for him to return to rcc.

Cock roach might welcome him with open arms 😜😜😜🤣🤣

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Nobody owes the Roman Catholic Church anything it is a precious gift from God and the people build on that Faith.
Pat forgot the fruits of the Holy Spirit as part of the RCC Faith.

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Catholic Christian? Sure every Christian is a Catholic and every Catholic is a Christian. Yz are turning the whole thing into a soul ball 🏀 league. True believers are followers and seek the God of our Lord Jesus Christ

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