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IF YOU SEE A PIG WITH TWO HEADS SAY NOTHING!

Recently I was standing in a queue at the checkout of a large Tesco store near where I live.

I noticed in front of me a parish priest of Down and Connor was further up the queue – a man I had been friends with years ago.

Not only had we been friends and each others confessors, we were also members of the same Jesus Caritas movement of priests (meeting under the inspiration of Brother Charles de Foucauld) – priests who meet for a day every month to pray, contemplate, share thoughts and a meal.

Brother Charles

Now in Tesco, this priest was behaving like a cornered animal. He was looking everywhere except in my direction. He took off and put back on his specs a hundred times. He dropped things out of his bag and put them back in. He was sweating and panicking.

And when he had paid for his groceries he ran for the doors.

Why this strange behaviour?

Why not just say “Hello Pat” or “Buckley don’t come hear me”. But no. He sweated, panicked and ran.

Fr Michael Keane

It reminded of an expression that Fr Michael Keane of the Knock Marriage Bureau used to use: “If you see a pig with two heads say nothing”.

I remember having a similar experience at a conference organised by the ACP – The Association of Priests.

There were hundreds of priests there from all over Ireland. I was with an Oratory priest and his wife.

Everyone ignored me, went the opposite way when they saw me coming and treated me as if even looking at me would cause something terrible to hapoen to them.

The only one who spoke to me that day was the Jesuit Alan McGuckian who is now the bishop of Raphoe.

A FISH / PRIEST FACTORY

When I waa a curate in Kilkeel one of my parishioners owned a fish processing factory and invited ne to visit.

The fish arrived on the assembly line and were first beheaded. Then they were gutted and finally had their spines removed.

This is what happens in seminaries and priesthood.

First of all they remove your head / brain.

Then they remove your guts.

Finally, they remove your spine.

And then you’re ready – a properly, FILLETED PRIEST with no brain, no guts and no spine.

APOSTOLIC SUCCESSION

The following is a footnote from a book entitled, Doctor Johnson and the Law and Other Essays on Johnson

In a book entitled, “Doctor Johnson and the Law and Other Essays on Johnson” by Tom Bingham, (who was a judge of the House of Lords and widely considered to be the best jurist of his age) in the introduction by Robin de Wilde there is a wonderful footnote:

“I have always enjoyed the observation by Sydney Smith, the nineteenth-century Divine, who, when he was asked whether he believed in the Apostolic Succession, said that he did, on the grounds that: ‘it was the only explanation for the then Bishop of Exeter being related to Judas Iscariot’.”

138 replies on “IF YOU SEE A PIG WITH TWO HEADS SAY NOTHING!”

Sure logic goes out the window. Friend of ours went round a posh supermarket in work gear and was followed by security. It’s stereo types and programmed illogical responses.

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HOW-HI FLY

Begorra hi soft morning má sé do thoil é.
Groupthink is the order of the day.
Often logic isn’t in the room to begin with to go out the window.
Saw videos of fella in elevator.
Three researchers entered facing wrong direction towards back wall.
Fella did same copying their behaviour. Happened several times.
Herd mob or pack mentality.
May The Force Be With Us…+

Bye Bye Fly Hi.

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Is the church an elevator and does it go up down or both ways and who pushes the buttons

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Hi Pat. Fr Keane sounds like a great character. Unlike yourself, he was evicted, but he somehow managed to get back into the system. Why was that? Was there something about Bishop Eamon Walsh?

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I was friends with Michael for years. He was a good man of integrity.
He always wanted back in.
He got his wish but they never apologised to him properly for the heinous way they treated him.

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HOW-HI FLY

Bethehokeys hi ’tis getting late and yer getting fierce philosophical.
If the church is an elevator the door is jammed ’tis claustrophobic and ’tis descending.
Only God holds the keys buttons or strings.
May The Force Be With Us…+
Good Nite To Ya Fly Hi.

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On the 6th of June @ 5:17 pm , blog -THE 45 TH ANNIVERSARY OF MY ORDINATION.-
in reply to two questions related to historical abuse cases and continuing cover up by Bishops, a poster to this blog stated;
“there are many cases unresolved and most bishops is trying to deal with them as well as they can…”
The poster also stated;
“I am not that naive to say some Bishops are still not economical with the truth as that is the case however the younger Bishops will cover up for no one and that is a fact.”
I have no idea who this poster is or how this poster is so au fait with continuing cover-ups.
Can this poster tell us:
How does this poster know of the continuing cover ups?
Who continues to cover up?
How many cases approximately are still covered up?
What is the nature of these covered up cases? ex. child sexual abuse; vulnerable adults; financial; recent or historic,..etc?
Can the poster tell us, what does…, ‘trying to deal with them as well as they can’… mean in practice?
How does the poster factually know, ‘younger Bishops will cover up for no one’?
How does the poster know some Bishops continue to be economical with the truth?
Concerning what?
Does the poster think respective Police Authorities in Ireland or elsewhere need to investigate any or all of these matters concerning continuing cover ups? If not, why not?

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7.35
THERE IS NOW NO COVER UP’S.
The Older Bishops were not aware of all this child abuse and all these co clergy and just do not really know what to do with it.
The younger Bishops are more street wise and can act on it quickly.There is currently NO cover up now in the RCC as it should be straight to the police and other Authorities.
Deal with them as best as they can well the problem is clergy, religious and people not being honest and like to be economical with the truth as you seen or hopefully you have spotted Jerry and Ger were economical with the truth and still are as the Bishop cannot get closure with the cases.
The victims are First and Foremost the priority.
Bishops being Economical with the truth it is time for them to be Truthful how bad the lack of clergy is and also the finances of the parishes and dioceses.
Police Authorities do not need to investigate any dioceses of Ireland or the UK as the best safeguarding teams are in place.
The Church is a minefield in administration when if you are older did you have dioceses with Directors, Accountants, Lawyers, PA’s, PI’s, Admin and diocesan offices to the grandeur they are now, Safeguarding teams and comms people.
The administration side of the Church is evolving but we need to take some Bishops and older clergy on the journey.

If you look at the Killaloe blogs on here now repeatedly that they have got boring well the BIG problem is the Bishop cannot get the TRUTH from all involved in Ger, Tina and Yvonne’s love affair so the dioceses is getting hell.
And Jerry does not see his actions bad and thinks a bit of Counselling and walk back into parishes and school he does not get it he would not pass safeguarding and C of C in Rome will not want clergy with sexual criminal records.
I hope have answered your points.
But I can ask is you keep the Bishops in your prayers as sadly their role has very much changed from pastoral to being administrators and really to be fair all the elder Bishops want to do is get into parishes but the administration from all official authorities is huge at least they can on Sunday’s and at night post covid.

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Get Malcolm and Albert to deal with it, Albert doesn’t come cheap, mind. Ex senior copper so his signature is worth a “The Holy Grail” to Roman Bishops!
Then there’s Rev. Canon. Dr. NeeNor 👮‍♂️ 🚔 🤢

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@ 9:30 am
You are patently contradicting yourself from your post two days ago.
Are we supposed to believe, from you, all cases of cover up are resolved,
sorted, and dealt with, in the last two days…!
So, what is the truth of the matter?
To claim victims are ‘the first and foremost priority’ is total, complete,
and utter public relations disingenuous nonsense.
You have done a terrific job discrediting yourself.
If you have specific knowledge of covering up, which you seem to have two days ago,
I hope you inform the relevant Police Authorities.
Are you a retired priest or bishop acting as a public relations apologist?

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@ 9:30 am

The poster @ 9:30 am goes to ground to avoid answering questions following a bad bout of foot in mouth. I hope he remembers to pray for victims/survivors considering he claims victims are ‘the first and foremost priority’. Of course, he didn’t specify how or in what way victims are ‘the first and foremost priority’. He’s a great man for gobbledygook.

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In answer to your question, the cases that continue to be covered up include sex and money, priests compromised in both ways, with the odd instance of substance abuse. Bishops continue to let out only the details they have to and phrase things carefully so they’re not actually lying but not telling the whole story, while telling a version which is advantageous to them. I can’t tell you how I know because my own position is precarious.

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10.16
Your own precarious situation well if you are a Priest I am sure you know that you can appeal to the Congregation of Clergy.
However you can go down the civil and criminal routes as the Bishops, Clergy and lay staff must fully cooperate with the authorities.
However I know it is very very daunting taking on the RCC however there is plenty that would help and I am sure Bishop Pat would help you personally however you would need to make it clear to Pat you do not want to be a victim of his blog.

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99.9% of the pastoral work never appears on my blog.

I blog about people who ask me to blog about their situation or permit me to do so.

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@ 10:16 am
Did you write the post @ 5:17 pm on the 6th June referred to @ 7:35 am this morning, relating to historical abuse and cover ups?

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@10:50 no I didn’t, I just recognised you as the clown from yesterday trying to have a private conversation on a public blog 🤣

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10.43
Welcome back Barking Bella.
Bella must have been an angel all through Lent to Corpus Christi.
and we were praying for the repose of his soul.

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11.54
I am responsible for the comment at 10.43. I am not Bella. If you remember, Bella’s level of grammar and syntax was barely above that of illiteracy. When she was asked to write legibly, she attempted to pass it off by claiming she didn’t care about grammar.
Jim S is that gay Irishman living in Scotland who claimed, in a moment of weakness, he was getting enough sex thank you. He is barely literate too and carries on as if he has the inside story in every diocese in these isles.

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When Tuam, Ferns and Galway dioceses are vacated shortly, Clogher will be the only diocese with a native priest as bishop. Bishop Larry is a good man so, is it possible that the policy of foisting an outsider on all the other dioceses has been a disaster?

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Larry is the bland leading the bland. If ever there was a diocese that needed shaking up and dynamic leadership it’s Clogher, but it won’t get it from Larry the Lamb.

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Was that policy initiated by Brown? Or merely implemented by him and part of his baleful legacy to the church in Ireland.

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Yes, it’s the collection of random change in outdated European currency you find sometimes. Oh the joy of being a lira millionaire! For SSPX members the collection would no doubt include some French francs from before the revaluation of 1960.

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11.43: “Something about Eamon Washe” – by which you mean——‘. Tell us. I has personal dealings with this good man of integrity, intelligence, prayerfulness and wisdom. Are you insinuating something sinister – as is usual in this blog? Disgraceful.

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I also had personal dealing with “this good man”.
He never got back to me about the topic I contacted him about. Bad manners at least?

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At the least, and also classic church policy. ‘Thank you for your letter, the contents of which have been noted’ = in the shredder.

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12:47
Thank you for answering my query.
Excuse me but what does SSPX mean? It sounds like some kind of illness or affliction.
Thank you in advance.

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SSPX is actually a terrible disease, you guessed right. It is a fungal infection in the testicular region of a priest, the discomfort of which means he can’t wear trousers and has to wear the soutane at all times, including for such things as playing football.

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It sure will be interesting to see who gets Tuam, Galway and Ferns. Will Ferns go for one of their own again like they did with Brennan ?.

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12:45

Excuse me but isn’t it gas. It is new to me.I never heard of it. It sounds like an awful affliction.
Maybe wearing a skirt helps by circulating air down below.
Does it itch? Is there any kind of cure?
Thank you in advance.

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Sadly it’s virtually incurable. There’s a variety which affects religious – in Ireland mostly Dominicans – which makes them march round dressed like the Inquisition. Some of them try to cure it with promiscuous gay sex in saunas and Cistercian monasteries but they invariably get back into the habit afterwards.

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2.54
Is it true that some Dominicans currently in responsible positions in formation have to wear the equivalent of a slip because they go commando under the white vestments?

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Pat, one time in the 80s you and Michael Keane were protesting outside the gates of Maynooth during a meeting of the episcopal conference.
The Middle Dean, Ahern, spied a Tuam sem talking to you and Michael. The Dean called the sem to see him and told him he must never speak to you or Michael again. The sem told the Dean that he would speak to whomever he liked.
Surprisingly, he was ordained and is still happily in ministry.

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2:54
Excuse me but it sounds shocking. There’s a variety of what?
Is there a variety of afflictions or a variety afflicted with the affliction?
How can sex in saunas or monasteries cure it? Wouldn’t sex only make it worse.
Is it catching? I always thought sex was disallowed for religious.
Is there no medical cure like a cream or tablets along with better hygiene?
I suppose they have to get back into habit if they can’t wear a pants.
They couldn’t walk around wearing nothing.
Thanks in advance.

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It’s terribly catching – you get it through going through other seminarians’ or other religious’ underwear in the laundry. There are treatments available but most sufferers would be too embarrassed to show the affected parts to a doctor, even though the doctor will have seen hundreds before. As have the priest or religious in question.

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Fancy that rancid old queen in the queue getting flustered like that, Bp Pat. At her age too, she should be ashamed of herself.

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4:07

Excuse me but going through others underwear in the laundry sounds very kinky.
No wonder it’s terribly catching. If there’s a problem down below let the doctor know.
Doctors can help. There’s no need for embarrassment. Be grownups.
Don’t go showing bits and bobs to all and sundry. It is not healthy.
Thank you in advance.

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It is kinky and yet a frequent part of going through seminary.
It is strange that the bizarre legends of clerical life – such as the dead pope being struck on the head with a hammer or the Cardinals lining up to grope a prospective Pope’s testicles to ensure he is male – should have sprung up. Actually, as documented today, any prospective cleric has been rendered incapable of acting before ordination. The male nature of a cleric will have been witnessed by many another seminarian, except for the odd heterosexual one and the one nobody fancies in every year. These are got rid of, with even greater haste if they kneel in chapel.
Despite ensuring seminarians are male and that everything works under the cassock, they are nonetheless given female names. I don’t know why.

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Pat, I have never met you and I disagree with you on many things – but, if I met you in a supermarket, I wouldn’t ignore you and, if we both had time, I would invite you for a cup of coffee.

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I always wonder about people who start of by saying I know you and disagree with you on many things but…….

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I agree with Bishop Pat on many things. I disagree with Bishop Pat on many things. If we both had time, I would invite him for a cup of coffee/tea.
PAX

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4:55
Excuse me but I had to cook dinner- a chicken curry with rice and chips.
Why so much kinkiness going through seminary? Was this always
going on in seminary’s or is this more recent due to the internet?
It is very sad to learn unattractive devout gay young men or heterosexual devout seminarians are not wanted in the seminary. Why is this going on?
Are seminarians not expected to be celibates in seminary as well as following ordination?
Giving each other female names sounds very odd.
Maybe they have a very low opinion of women and very superior opinion of themselves.
It is hard to know why but it all seems very peculiar to me.
Thank you in advance.

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So true re the filleted priests. I left the priesthood and prior to that nearly all of my friends were priests. I left (suddenly) and entered into a civil partnership. Not a single one of them contacted me, or asked after my welfare. Total silence. I had been on holidays with them, met their parents, invited them to mine, taken all of my days off with them, accompanied them during their own troubles, and… nothing. It would have been my silver jubilee this year too – but you are soon forgotten and might as well be ‘dead’ to them. Perhaps they thought I knew too much about their own situations, and that outside of the control of Holy Mother Church that they were unable to rely upon my discretion.

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I’m a former priest too who left to marry. I experienced the exact same reaction from priest friends and colleagues whom I had gotten to know well in my years as a priest. Even when my parents died practically none of them sympathised with me let alone turn up for the funerals. I have no grudge towards any of them but it certainly opened my eyes bigtime.

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It happens in every diocese. Priests who leave are unpersoned. It’s as if they never existed.

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Father Bill Mulvahill of Armagh experienced the same grand silence from priests friends there he had known for decades.

They were afraid of the bitch Amy.

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I was certainly not celibate for the last five years of ministry. I decided to quit whilst I still had my health and years ahead of me, and could do something else instead. Its a relief to live life
out of the shadows and to be financially independent. However, all of the priests with whom I had sexual relations, or knew of their own lapses, are still in active ministry – although none of them have been appointed bishops – yet!

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Pat, you and Mulvihill and other disgruntled priests left plenty of messes and hurt behind…all who have left were not ideal human beings either….but It’s courteous to say hello once you’re not a demon devil!!!

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Archbishop Paul Gallagher is heading for Westminster. There is no doubt about that. Sources in the Vatican provide secure information.

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But he’s never run anything more than a desk and a diplomatic pouch before. That inspires confidence !

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I don’t know he is like Jesus and eats with sinners – like the nonce – Fr Tom Wood of Liverpool
http://www.liverpoolcatholic.org.uk/index.php?p=259
and the nonce Fr Matthew Jolly
Sep 23, 2019
Catching up on #InsideTheVatican and reminiscing about having Fish & Chips with Abp. Gallagher in those papal apartments 😅 #WhenInRome

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@1.39pm How utterly cynical. He has fine leadership skills and his personal qualities are exemplary. Doctrinally, mainstream to liberal. You know nothing of the man. It is wrong to comment when one is ignorant of the facts.

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In rcc eyes, you been trouble maker, mischief, master stirrer of all things towards roman catholic bishops, priests, seminarians.
After all, you have been through rcc processes such as they remove your head / brain.
Then they remove your guts.
Finally, they remove your spine.
And then you’re ready – a properly, FILLETED PRIEST with no brain, no guts and no spine. You ere one of them at the start. Today blog says about you and other priests as well who went through rcc process.
Then you got outside after they moulded you into something different which they didn’t expect. Didn’t they not seen it during your seminarian years? If so they must have missed out re their screening out process which isn’t good.
It applies to me as well re I didn’t see rcc methods of cover ups until very late. Then Marie collins twitter and this article, (this writer has a child with disability now adult). Hes known in certain disability circles.
https://www.irishexaminer.com/opinion/columnists/arid-40308185.html
made me realise that rcc can’t be trusted cos they don’t have your interest at heart, just their own interests. It’s like a cord breaking between us, realising that rcc has conned us re their fancy PR media campaign on their Canon laws on abuses. It helped us to see them in a very different light. They aren’t about protecting kids at all whatsoever, just their mind set to save, preserve and protect their own institution’s at all cost.

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It most certainly is, @ 12:50 pm. And it means the Evil one himself is not at all happy. That is an excellent sign indeed! 😊

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Bishop Pat you will be on the unofficial agenda next week and I will burn a candle for you 🙂
Summer Episcopal Conference Meeting Maynooth 14th – 16th.
Pray for all Bishops.

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2.19pm

I think you forgot to include the letter ‘c’ in your rather curt ‘None’ and to be fair statistically some are bound to be and although criminal for many clergy it’s always an option, if not the only one.

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2.19am
You gotta be joking…… 🙄🙄👀.
Recall mc Carrick, other cardinal that I can’t spell his Italian name starting with involved in cocaine orgy in his apartment.

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Great question – but how would you/could you know?
Hey and if active gay, straight (probably not), services of a Dominatrix, cruising, chauffeur etc.
I reckon over 50 per cent one way or another – v likely higher but ya never know do ya unless they are caught out!!

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Let’s do a Blog Terna for Westminster – on my list are:
Paul Gallagher
John Wilson
Arthur Roche
Marcus Stock (God I hope not)
Bernard Longley (damaged goods because of enquiry, Quigley and not writing his own letters to victims)
Yeah I know a Terna is three but cut me some slack)
Whoever Elsies fav is?

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2.12
Keep up with appointments
Arthur Roche has just be appointed to one of the Top jobs in the Vatican and will be elevated to Cardinal.
he is not going to the multi faith Westminster where the Anglicans run the RCC show.
Mason from the forces, Morth – Brighton and Davis – Shrewsbury.
Yes I think Longley is damaged but he is doing better than Vinnie

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Parish of Our Lady & St. Gregory, Lydiate -- now called The Parish of St. Catherine of Alexandria - Liverpool Archdiocesesays:

The present incumbent of Our Lady and St. Gregory the Great, Lydiate (Now called the Parish of St. Catherine of Alexandria), Grant Paul Maddock – Fr. Grant Maddock has just celebrated his Jubilee.
Here’s the parish Facebook page, it looks a wonderful page.
. https://www.facebook.com/StCatherineLydiate/
I understand Fr. Thomas Wood, the now convicted paedophile, was the previous incumbent here. He didn’t get a custodial sentence — not even a suspended sentence we gather from the Liverpool Echo — and was only required to sign the Danger to Children Register for five years — one would have thought only five years on the register for such serious offences unacceptable? He was a Canon lawyer — legal circles possibly.
His offences where the most serious in nature; watching live broadcast videos of children being raped by a man, in real time. All very strange and bizarre how he got such a mild sentence — if it can be called a sentence at all!
Is there something beneath the surface up in Liverpool and Chester areas which needs the veneer “scratching” away for closer analysis?

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Pat if this happens again you must heal him by blessing him at the too of your voice. Shouting ‘Bow your head and pray for God’s blessing’ should have an interesting effect anyway.

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Pat, I emailed you some research the other day on Irish clerical celibacy, among other things. Did you get it?

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As an independent bishop why in earth would you want to associate with clergy of the Papal cult?

I have a question. When you were consecrated by dear ++ Brennan had he already received the ++Milingo (sp?) lines? I ask this because a friend who shared in those lines told me that he was visited by a Vatican dignitary who asked him information about his episcopal lineage for their records. After all Milingo was consecrated by no less a personage than Paul VI Montini. The implications are obvious.

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You should take it as a major compliment that you’re being blanked by these roman cult members,unable to think for themselves and gutless and spineless.
It shows you’ve been doing real ministry all these years,unlike those despicable ,cowardly careerists.
Make no mistake they’ll get theirs, going round in their oh so perfect little life.
They haven’t a compassionate bone in their body.
Continue what you do Pat because normal people can see what this evil roman cult is all about.
The biggest problem is the Vatican city state . An absolute abomination created by Mussolini and which, it seems,most Italian politicians are happy with.
Its destruction will hasten the end.
It must happen.
Francie can’t set foot in Argentina as he’ll be arrested immediately. He’s afraid to rely on diplomatic immunity.
Meanwhile another two clerical perverts flown in from Mexico last Thursday.
Collected by chauffeur at the airport.
So don’t worry about gutless clerics ghosting you.
We should pity them.

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4.42pm
The Lateran Pacts were a disaster – the Church was almost flat broke cash wise but for the sale of the Papal States and the £100,000 million windfall – £6 Billion in today’s money – then they gave the portfolio to Bernardo Nogara who invested just after the Wall St crash in gold (Nazi), military weaponary and Jewish insurance policies which paid out a decade or more later and other dubious investments, not least for Costra Nosta – of course he handed the baton over to Sindona, Calvi and other corrupt Milanese bankers through Montini and Passchi and the leaven of financial corruption became deeply embedded in the corrupt Vatican financial system we have today.
The Vatican illustrate God v Mammon and guess who they chose.
Bark of Peter – more Bark of the Duce!!

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The Popes from Pius X to Francis don’t care where the money comes from – they’ve funded the Costras and Solidarity and God knows what else!

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Why are Roman Catholic Clergy so cruel and rude?
When they are out together in a restaurant and the like you can hear their gossiping and bitching.
They say things like, ‘I can’t stand so and so’ and their language is fruity and crude.
They say Pope Francis can curse with the best of them and Couve when riled or showing off curse like a fisherwoman.
I think the word ‘dis grace’ is perfect description of a Roman Catholic Clergyman.

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Yes, and a very oily one. Like the oiliness he showed the time he was questioned, in St Peter’s Square, about his ignoring victims of kiddie-fiddling by romanist priests in Argentina, Frankie’s old stamping ground.

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A filthy tongue? Oor Frankie?

I’d say he’s cracked more than the odd dirty joke in his time. The vast majority of priests do, given their juvenile interest in homosex.

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The explanation is very simple. It is not the holy church it claims to be, it is a clerical club and international player aimed at power.
That’s why you see what you see.

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If you see a pig with two heads, say nothing?
OK, Father. I get that. But what if we see a kiddie-fiddling priest, um, kiddie-fiddling, do we still say nothing?

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Some of the faithful who comment here would make a point of finding out the abuser’s religion so that they can come on here going, ‘See N. abuse too, it’s the fault of society and social workers!’.

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6.34: Definitely not say nothing when you, Mags the danger, are the abuser!!! You possess all the characteristics of a potential abuser: certainly your language is a form of mental, emotional, spiritual and sexual abuse.

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7.37
I couldn’t help noticing that you ducked my question by raising a strawman.
Have you a guilty conscience, priest?
Did you keep mum when you should have been calling out from the rooftops your kiddie-fiddling colleagues?
Or did you yourself kiddie-fiddle a little, or a lot?
I don’t mean to be forward; it is just that you have been evasive, sometimes an indicator of wrongdoing.
(Just wonderin’, like. You know?)

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The mention of apostolic succession today reminds me of a retired Bishop I once knew who justified an unbecoming outburst with the declaration “I am a successor of the Apostles, you need to listen to me”. 🤯🤣 The legend surrounding St Finbarr is that he was briefly assumed into heaven and consecrated a Bishop by St Peter himself. I do think there is a real danger of making these things too literal. Over 90 percent of Catholic Bishops trace their line back as far as 1566 and can go back no further. Ordination is not a virus to be picked up by sufficient contact. That the Holy Spirit can continue the ministry of Christ among his people through the Sacrament of Orders is perfectly reasonable but this business of tracking linages seems to have only to do with emphasising a position of power in a way the “little people” might understand.

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An impressive post, De Integro.
Can you elaborate on your statement that contemporary bishops,for the most part, can trace their episcopal lineage to no earlier than 1566?

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Whoa that was news to me but I looked it up and found out about Scipione Rebiba

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Scipione Rebiba ordained Antonio Santorio. Cardinal Santorio went on to ordain over 130 Bishops for significant Sees in Europe. These Bishops because of the position they held were consecrators for many if not all of the new Bishops of their respective countries. Episcopal ordination was such a public event no one would question the fact of its occurance at the time so no reliable records are kept regarding who consecrated Cardinal Rebiba. Hence why the majority (around 90 or 95%)of Latin Rite Bishops can’t trace back any further. I wonder if Eastern Bishops with their acceptance of ordination as a sacrament ever waste time thinking about such things. As interesting as it is, one must admit it’s terribly obscure.

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De Integro at 6.49pm

im glad that you bought it up re apostolic succession. Given my igornance in Rcc education, i looked up and though it was a RED flag. Its very difficult to trace it all the way back to St peter who wasnt in Rome.

95% was traced back to Rebiba in circa 1541 AD. Beyond that, it goes blank as there was a gap there. Quite simply it isnt credible enough.

Majority of 95% are Europeans and the Americans as well. That leaves remaining 5% probably in far east,asia.

I agree with you re this business of tracking lineges has to do with emphasising their ‘position of power’.

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“being related to Judas Iscariot’.”
Jesus was betrayed. History is repeating itself in the form of priests who are betraying Jesus.
You seem to have good friends in the Church as well Bishop Pat. Your Killaloe friend wrote on this blog a few weeks back. You have good clergy friends in Kerry. A few priests have posted on here that they can relate to you but are doing their ministry from within the Church. I don’t think they would see themselves as filleted priests. I wouldn’t either.

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It isn’t how you see yourselves, dear; it’s how others see you. And what they see are priests kidding themselves that they are ministering for Christ in Hell: in institutional Roman Catholicism.

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Pat: having stood back a little from your blog, I returned yesterday and today. I am shocked that you allow the horrendously offensive, vitriolic venom of Magna. It’s a repeat of his hate speech almost every day, rarely anything different. That surely is unacceptable. You are to be admired on many levels but you decided on or were forced to take a particular route in life than originally planned. Many of us agree with some of your criticism, but do not share your personal agenda against the Church personnel whom you demonize in a vicioys way. We identify with the outrage expressed against the wrongs, crimes by church personnel and reject the clericalist culture. Many of us are responding to our daily work with care and dedication, believing that we are there to serve the people with and for whom we work. There is a depth of human kindness in the hearts of the majority of priests. I have experienced and witnessed that. None of us is perfect nor do we always live up to the ideals expected of us. We are made of clay. We fail. We fall. We pray for God’s graces each day. We carry out our work as diligently as we can. I do not consider myself a flleted human being in any way. That description is ignorant. You know of many, many well adjusted and normal human beings who happen to be priests but yet you allow a lie to be perpetuated on a daily basis that all of us are somehow sub human and horrible people. I find the repeat negative and nasty narratives of Magna and a small cohort gratuitously offensive. I often ask: why do you facilitate the repetitive nastiness?

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8.24

The truth must be proclaimed, priest, even to the spiritually hard-of-hearing. And you are almost deaf.

It isn’t about hearing what you like, but about hearing what you don’t like and don’t want to know.

It is the latter that leads to salvation.

Think of me as a friend concerned for your spiritual wellbeing.

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8.38: Magna: you prove my point very neatly. You just don’t get it: you cannot, in conscience, have so much hatred and vitriol in your heart. You cannot justify the violence of your abusive narratives. I am well acquainted with truth and don’t require the abusive comments from you to define truth. I can safely assume that from my ministry in parishes, I have reached out in numerous ways, pastorally and caringly than you could ever imagine or be capable of doing – and made a significant difference, as many of my colleagues do. It’s not possible for you to contribute in any meaningful way to the lives of others with the monstrous pathological dysfunctionality you all too frequently manifest. Simply not possible. As for you ‘caring’…!!! Well, begorrah, what a laugh! Keep taking your happy pills…

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He’s an alcoholic, and a particularly nasty one at that. Just as in real life, alkies cause pain all round them and are best avoided.
Ignore him, don’t respond, don’t try to heal or fix him. It can’t be done.

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8.51: SeamusV111: as Lady Margaret Thatcher once said, “The Lady’s not for turning..” Sadly, the Lady Marge Cartwheel is not for turning. Though we all agree that Marge needs a complete “metanoia” – but before that must come her acceptance that she needs God – soon and very soon…

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@ 9.57 – I’m not defending Magna, I rarely if ever agree with his attitude toward faith and church. However, people who struggle with alcohol usually are reflecting the pain they were subjected to in some way in their life. As far as healing goes that must happen on their terms not on anyone else’s. Someone with an agenda would not understand that.

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9.57

Just in through the door after an hour or two of mountain-biking in Castle Ward forest park. God, it was exhilarating! Better than making love!

What we’re you saying? Alcoholic? Me? 😎

I’ll have you know that I haven’t had so much as a sup of the Devil’s Buttermilk since 10 January this year. Isn’t this thrilling?😳

I know you’re delighted for me and are offering up Te Deums in praise of God for his goodness.

Took him ducking long enough to show it, though. 🤓

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Magna. I bike in there too occasionally: leave car in Dundrum and off on bike round coast, Tyrella, Killough, Ardglass, Strangford, through Castleward back gate by caravan site and out front gate and up Crew Road back to car. Trusty 531 frame Claude Butler Majestic original 1980’s tourer, but use a Trek 3 when off road in forests, but don’t attempt the dare devil stuff.
There’s enough “devils” about!
MMM

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10.26: De Integro: You are right to some extent. People often turn to drink to block out or to cope with past trauma. However, that does not excuse their abusive, nasty behaviour towards others, as Magna does, on a daily basis. His behaviour is unforgivable as he rightly knows that he requires intervention at a very professional level. It’s a pity that any person should disintegrate because of inability to accept past trauma. There are plenty of therapists who can help any person but the desire for true change must come from the person in need. I din’t belueve ut’s wise to let Magna comnent as he cannot discern where to draw the line between legitimate, intelligent comnentary and gratuitously offensive vitriol, which if spoken in a public place in front of others would warrant his arrest for racism, hate speech and bigotry.

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10:39

What happened to Jesus teaching to forgive 70 times 7? Disappeared along with don’t harm little ones…?

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Speaking of power, an independent Anglican Bishop friend mentioned to me that he had Roman, Anglican and even canonical Orthodox lines. This being so he whimsically remarked that it stands to reason that there are loose wires in everyone’s lines. Perhaps this explains many oddities.
Cardinal Barbarini was hardly a model of piety until near the end. Mad Bishop Brown shocked the frozen chosen with his communist antics back in Queen Victoria’s time. Lord knows what characters can be found amongst the Grecian and Slavonic lines.
There are a few other lines that go beyond Rebiba, and new information is being discovered from time to time.A gentleman whose name escapes me has made it his life’s work as have several others.
I suspect that investigating ecclesiastical lines appeals to those with a sense of history and a wish for a personal connection therewith. Of course some believe that lines actually go back to those whom Jesus touched, and that’s almost as sweet as Caldey chocolate.
A hot, hot afternoon, a huge glass of lemonade and the French open have inspired me to make these comments on apostolic lines.

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A few years ago I met a former colleague, a priest, in a supermarket. I turned to introduce him to my partner and turned back towards him only to find him rushing off up the aisle of the supermarket to avoid conversation. I never encountered such ignorant behaviour in my entire life.

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Magna Carta at times can be clear cut regarding the state of rcc. It was straight to the point that i understood where he was coming from but not all the times.

As you said that he has a drink problem. The irish have a proclivity for drink. My brother was one of them as he’s was also fr lomanskey drinking buddy as well. They are adult and made their choice despite my plea. I’m not going to bother them cos some alcoholucs don’t listen. Sometimes they might need a wake up call as I know few alcoholics who have recovered.

Magna is useful at times when it comes to rcc cos of his insight which cuts through the noise. Thus became more aware and understanding as well re RCC cos more exposure.

His fav words were romanists moochers which made me laugh. Also don’t bite the hand that feeds you re bishops and priests which enables me to understand that priests out there beholden to bishops except for financial independence if any that they have.

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