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RELIGIOUS ORDER PRIEST SAYS WHY IS LEAVING.

I am a Roman Catholic priest and religious, and in the past few weeks, I have decided that I am on my way out. 

In my time as a cleric and religious (over 10 years), I have had to deal with malfeasance, dishonesty, coverup, and cruelty at almost every turn. 

I gave myself generously to the Lord in this Church, and while I have received immense graces, I have received such abuse and opposition that I cannot stay without sustaining irreparable damage to my soul and psyche. 

There is, simply put, no safe place, no refuge, in this desperately sick organisation, especially if you have tried to do the right thing in exposing corruption and hypocrisy.

 I am convinced that the RCC is absolutely injurious to the mental and spiritual (and sometimes physical) health of individuals loved by God and bought with the infinite price of his most precious Blood. 

I pray that this scandal, and the many others which have arisen and will arise in the future, will continue to open the eyes of good clergy and the faithful. 

Can this Church be reformed and cleansed?  I have no idea; I hope so. 

But speaking for myself, I cannot stomach it for a moment longer.

PAT ANSWERS:

Dear Father,

Thank you for communicating your story and your thoughts and feelings to us.

You are not the only priest in this position.

More than ever, with all the scandals etc, many priests ate becoming very disillusioned, not with God and Jesus, but eith the Roman Catholic institution.

It is very evil and souls that are sensitive to evil cannot stay within.

Some say they are staying to change it.

Not a hope!

Jesus Christ, Himself couldn’t change it. It has sold its soul to the world and the Evil One.

You are probably a relatively young man?

I hope you are inspired to channel all your goodness and desire for integrity into something new.

If I, or anyone here at The Oratory, can help you on any eay, please let us know.

Pat.

FR GAY SLATTERY’S FUNERAL MASS

https://churchmedia.tv/recordings/10146#1

NUN BURYING BABIES BODIES BY BANKSTY

129 replies on “RELIGIOUS ORDER PRIEST SAYS WHY IS LEAVING.”

Good for him. The only sad thing is it’s impossible to tell what order it is!
Is the picture at the top from a film?

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9.24: It’s not important to know the Order. Not at all necessary. He may wish not to be identified or to identify his order. Cop on.

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8.30
I think you miss the proster’s point in your haste to react. She or he is making the point that it could be any of the orders. And that’s what’s sad!

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Thank you 8:42. That was my point. I’m more interested in identifying the source of the picture but there are too many people eager to pounce!

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9.43
No matter how well worded it could have been, you’d still have misunderstood, Seamus.

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My ambiguous wording revealed the prurience of the reader’s mind, Seamus. The truth will set you free.

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Well done you’ve health and youth on your side. Enjoy life and be free to love who you want. I am so glad I did and lol back at those who stayed with sadness as they are shadows of their former selves. The church will eat away at your soul

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8.42: Get a grip. The CONTENT is what is RELEVANT…Please argue the salient issues and not gossipy stuff. Go back to bed..

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Another one looking to throw a fit, and therefore failing to understand.
The holy priests are feeling particularly holy today lol

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8.52
No need to shout. When you are a little calmer you may concede that the original poster’s response to the negativity of the article was to opine that such dysfunction could be true of any order today. And that therein lies the sadness. To spell it out for you: the first poster was not saying that she or he was sad because they didn’t know the identity of the order but because such negativity is so pervasive.
This is the point you’ve missed twice.

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I certainly agree with your comments @9:49. I too look back occasionally, and with great relief at having chosen to leave. [ I say “chosen”, ie. of my own volition, to quell those blethering begrudgers who regularly vent their frustration on this blog by claiming without evidence that ex sems have been rejected and ‘kicked out.]
My sense of relief is particularly strong when meeting former college colleagues who were ordained and have remained “in role.” Mind you well over half of them have quit, gone AWOL or died.
MMM

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This priest has made a very brave decision. I am glad that he acknowledges the graces he received, graces I hope be will continue to receive. The church and priesthood are at critical junctures. Many priests share the same analysis of this priest but because we chose this as our way of life, it is difficult to simply opt out, particularly when you are so immersed in ministry as our way of life and achieving meaning and purpose through our ministry . In my lifetime I cannot visualise any radical shifts in the renewing of the institutional church. Small changes and winds of renewal and on-going efforts to create meaningful, gospel like parish communities is the hope that inspires me at present. In this endeavour and focus many of my contemporaries likewise find relevance for their ministry. The parish can be seen as the vineyard to be cultivated, cared for and built up by all who care about their Parish. The larger picture, when looked at with a searing honesty is very spiritually and morally disillusioning. But let hope be our vision and a deep trust in God our source for daily strength.

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Your head is in the clouds, 10.09.

You have very fanciful ideas about what you think you do, and those ideas are yours alone.

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TBH it’s a common survival strategy when the shock of the whole thing is too difficult to face. We see it here all the time.
This is one of the reasons you stop short of acknowledge the whole picture while still in the church. If you see it you have to leave.

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Anon at 10.08am: My head never was in the clouds and never will be. My life’s experiences have grounded me very firmly on the ground. Are you the guy that keeps repeating the same put downs of priests who argue rationally, intelligently and calmly? Are you the one who never has anything positive or coherently to say by way of meaningful dialogue except to mock others? In situations of crises and challenges and in the face of much disreputable, criminal corruption and abuse, we often have to make decisions about priorities, about the relevant areas of concern for our parishes, keep focused on what matters and do your utmost to live the commitment made and the ideals of the gospel of Christ. Surely, that’s commendable and we should be able to say this without smart alecy, empty cynicism. Fanciful doesn’t exist in my lexicon: “doing” and “achieving some good” are more important to me…Now, perhaps you’ll take the covers from your wee little eyes and brain…Ahhh, the terra firma is beautiful after all the rain!! Heavenly….

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Fr at 12:39 no doubt also thinks he’s a good listener and takes on other people’s views. 🤣

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Fr. @ 12:39: you refer to priests who argue “rationally, intelligently and calmly.”
Have I missed something? Seems so!

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Ah you used the picture!
Sad but true, a picture can speak a thousand words….. Cover up!
See no evil, hear no evil and speak no evil….

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Father Slattery’s funeral mass was dignified. Appropriate for any Christian.
Thanks for sharing the link.

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Except for the preacher with his white sneakers and telling us Gay was as much of a Buddhist as a Christian ?

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They were not white sneakers. They were suede shoes +Pat. Mullen doesn’t shop in Penny’s or Dunnes.

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God Almighty you’re upset at white sneakers. I guess you would have whinged at Jesus in candles or going barefoot. You are something else.

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Well at least he didn’t have slippers on. But I think Jesus himself had only worn out sandles and they didn’t inhibit his ability to preach.

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Is that the best you can do ? make a laugh at a typo ? OMG you really are not a well man. Maybe we should just laugh at your own typo’s

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@ 2:19, I agree with you. Does it really really matter if a priest wears white sneakers at a funeral?

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Those who can will increasingly get out, those who can’t will be stuck, either because they don’t have the youth or resources to make a new start, or because a minority of them still believe in the project to which they gave themselves when they joined their Order or were ordained. There is no doubt that the Church is a failing institution – less people in the pews, older age profile that is dying out, severe difficulty in staffing churches and in recruiting new vocations, both to the priesthood and the religious life. Add to this a dolt headed approach by the leadership of the Church to address these issues – only a half hearted approach resulting from the many words about lay involvement and ministry, an obduracy about some blue skies thinking about married clergy, women clergy and even diverse clergy simply because they are stuck in an increasingly discredited and morally bankrupt moral theology and a narrow and discriminatory view of gender and sexuality. Until these things are addressed the Church will continue to go down the tubes leaving it with a rather odd and unrepresentative rump of strange beings who are increasingly right wing and ultra orthodox and self-satisfied in their irrelevance to everybody and everything else. Add to this the willingness of people to embrace faith in creative and new ways, and not to be bullied in to adopting what they are told to believe and practice by hierarchs, then you have a recipe for the Church becoming a minority and fringe interest. I can well understand why priests, at least those who look around them and see what is happening, will leave. Many of them simply do not want to implicitly support Church teaching on sexuality, morality, relationships, marriage, and the whole range of life and culture issues that the Church continues to stick to. Many of them see these teachings as putting burdens on people who really just want to do their best and get on with their lives. Also, they see that if they stay they just have more and more put upon them as their numbers dwindle and the Church refuses to find a way of ministry which is imaginative and creative. If they have the age and resources to get out, many of them do. Those who don’t, sadly, just have to stay and make the best of a miserable job, and wishing that they too could get out. Well, that’s what I see when I look around.

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Anon 9:20, the Church has the framework of a good moral compass between the Bible and the 10 Commandments. The Church’s message is undermined by contradictions between their words and actions. There are many good priests being let down by bishops and their fellow clergymen.
Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you clean the outside of the cup and the plate, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence. Do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach.
The Church’s view on sexuality is narrow. The blessings of love in Germany offers hope by those who took initiative. There are compassionate stories from the Church. Some people just focus on the bad and ignore the good. Sadly there are also people who ignore the bad and only see the good, which does not help to cleanse the Church.
The Church should never fear preaching a morally strong message. The message will not be difficult nor a burden for people who truly have love in their hearts.

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Absolutely agree @9:40.
Don’t mind Seamus. He sounds like one of the rump you mentioned.
MMM

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I do wish the odd bishop would read this and see what is being said by the clerical ranks, or at least those who can think for themselves.

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I am sure they do read it – to see if they’re appearing themselves. They could also read the letters they get, but they don’t. There is literally no way they don’t know this. The reason they don’t do anything is that if they did their own position would be endangered and secondly because not one of them gives a shit or has the balls.

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Seamus at 12;18 what language did you write this comment in and what language did you ask Google to translate it into?

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Sad story by a religious order priest whose life get destroyed or injured. But that’s the reality now for some priests not of all them.
Key point is to focus on their spiritual life not rcc life to get them through.
I look at rcc with my deep skepticism and also with jaundiced eye as well based on my experience in institutional schools.
I wish you (priest) well in his journey to leave rcc.

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“I have decided that I am on my way out.”
Another good man is gone. Bishops are being rewarded for silence and turning a blind eye. Seminarians are kicked out for calling out misbehaviour. An Indian nun was dismissed for calling out a criminal bishop.
It is a sad story and a sad state of affairs. It is also a sad state of affairs if those forced out, or feeling they have no choice but to leave, cannot find a constructive parallel way as disciples and followers of Christ.
Is there any convent who will take in a nun wrongfully dismissed? Is there any brotherhood who will reach out to the wrongfully rejected priests/seminarians?
Jesus said to him, “Do not stop him, for the one who is not against you is for you.”

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Is it just me but it seems perfectly understandable – to mean that there are the same reason for the priest leaving and the sidelined whistle blower he was talking about yesterday.

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Seamus, it’s not so much the nuns and priests or seminarians who are kicked out that is the problem being discussed here, but rather those who lay down ministry and go of their own volition because they find the Church and their ministry unsustainable. For many of the reasons that @0920 talked about.

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“I have had to deal with malfeasance, dishonesty, coverup, and cruelty at almost every turn.”
Anon 10:15, the padre laying down his ministry and those who were marginalised are due to similar enough reasons. It is perfectly reasonable to discuss both as there is a crossover.

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How did the priest deal with ‘malfeasance, dishonesty, cover-up and cruelty at almost every turn’? This sounds serious, perhaps criminal.

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This priest’s order is irrelevant : ALL religious orders are dysfunctional, because priesthood was not intended by Christ.
Doubtless I’ll again be accused of repetition by the usual sources, but until this matter is faced courageously and honestly by the institutional church, the evil and pervasive influence of clericalism will continue.

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They only accuse you of repetition )as they do Bishop Pat) because they don’t want you or him to say what you do at all. The obvious riposte is of course that you can only repeat because it’s the same old crime, abuse, cover up and criminality everywhere.

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10.27: Since you, Magna, have displayed your disdain and contempt for all clerics and for the church, your views are really superfluous for those of us who truly care. Find another project where you might – just might – make a difference by your loud mouthing verbiage.

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12.50

If you TRULY cared, you’d be making precisely the same argument as I: that priesthood was not intended by Christ and should, therefore, be abolished.

But you really don’t give the proverbial, do you?😕

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My best wishes and prayers are offered for this brave man who has decided his conscience will not permit him to stay in the Catholic church – I hope he doesn’t let his training go to waste and finds an independent ministry.
For those looking for significance in the picture – give it up – it’s just a stock image from the web. It’s a still from a sci-fi series called The Outer Limits. You are welcome.

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Bishop Paul announces Father Daniel Etienne will be leaving Blackpool on the First of September and taking up position as a Curate in the Carlisle group of parishes.
The affected Parishes should be aware of the Clergy change.
He will love it their doing his 1962 Mass as some old Ladies still love the Latin Mass.

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Etienne is being taken down a peg or two. Too immature and full of himself to be given responsibility. So, he will be supervised and overseen. Good thing too.

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his comments “In my time as a cleric and religious (over 10 years), I have had to deal with malfeasance, dishonesty, coverup, and cruelty at almost every turn. “.

In other words, he wasnt given a fair hearing, to express his views on the state of RCC.It looks like he was obstructed, marginalised,belittled, scorned at almost at every turn which is disgusting really.

in other words,RCC was/is adapting their ‘ hear no evil, see no evil and speak no evil’ approach. Their hands were in the sands as they dont want to know that old chestnut problem again and again.

Quite simply, they swept everything under the carpet that is related to any pressing problem.

Did he ever go over his superior heads to the next superior or at top – superior of the whole province??

Other comments of his “There is, simply put, no safe place, no refuge, in this desperately sick organisation, especially if you have tried to do the right thing in exposing corruption and hypocrisy.”.

What he had said there which isnt surprising at all even many years ago, i tried to do the right thing by going to certain person to what i have seen and heard. That didnt work out eventually cos they obstructed and marginalised me, bad mouthed at me as trouble maker, outed me as someone with mental health problems, also they miminised the problems that we had to our naive and believing parents cos i had the language that many deaf boys dont have. I was able to express it now both in how it had developed and also expressed it more graphically which had sickened some sane people out there such as solicitor and a barrister re gruesome details when my story came out.

CBS got away for many years until 2010 where a certain CBS from Cabra ended up in court. It was that same CBS i had reported him years ago in fact in 1982. CBS margalinised me and brainwashed my parents by saying i have mental health problems etc. They got away for years until it caught up with them at the end.

At that time i didt have the language to express it more clearly, no interpeters that time at the age of no internet, no mobiles, all phones and mail etc,its them (their words) against mine which made it all the more difficult for me personally.

It would be wise for him (priest of today blog) to get out without any damage if he can before any damage would do to him. Just get yourself fully intact first and then, get out if you can.

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Yes, the classic ‘Hes mentally ill’ gaslighting. Conveniently ignoring that a person who has been abused is likely to experience mental illness caused by the abuse they are denying.
This is among the nastiest and most brutal techniques of abusers and frequently used by the church. these men are despicable and without conscience.

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@1:37pm – No, Canon Paul Nener is a wonderful priest and you have a problem.

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Prophetic and sad. A number of years ago I considered joining a religious congregation. Something did not feel right. I wonder where those students are today? Mark, Matthew, Ryan and Declan. I wish them well. I hope they find meaning, truth and love. I am glad for the road not taken.

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All gone with the exception of the Polish guy who is planning to study for a licentiate in canon law.

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I think Holy Trinity Brompton (HTB) is the ideal fit for (Fr) James Mackay. They host the offices of Divine Renovation Network UK and Catholic Alpha. After his one-year cooling off period, he might apply to the Bishop of London to be trained as an Anglican curate.

Former worship leader and now Vicar of Hackney Rev Al Gordon is ex-Catholic, as are a number of HTB worshippers.

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Anyone who knew James wouldn’t be surprised by the news. He had a very close relationship with the clergy at St Paul’s Shadwell (a part of HTB), and often would use their building for away days, and confirmation retreats. The Church of Englanders(?) didn’t really mind having mass in their building.

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Well it’s a two way channel. We rejoice at angloids crossing over so should be happy for him as he embarks upon his life as a prod.

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@5:43 Anglicans are Prods, the Church of England is the continuation of the Pre-Reformation Church in England, and is both reformed and Catholic.

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Is it a crime to hire another site to try to evangelise the unfaithful? I wonder what Jesus would think about that?

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@12.14pm Clearly, you know very little about the Church of England generally and Holy Trinity, Brompton Road in particular. HT is in the clappy, smile and raise your arms in the air evangelical mould. It’s understanding of sacraments is a long way from that of an RC priest. Fr James would not be attracted to such a place. That is the rational position, unless you have some evidence to demonstrate that I am wrong?

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6.45pm, Fr James did a one-month placement at St Benedict Parish (RC), Halifax, Nova Scotia, a few years ago. This parish is part of the Divine Renovation Network. It has happy clappy worship music (including Hillsong songs and HTB songs). It also runs Alpha. He is moving from one “evangelical” parish to another.

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I watched the funeral thank you +Pat for sharing.

I noticed Fr Paul was speaking differently. He seemed nervous his voice was a bit shaken at points. I do hope his alleged sabbatical brings him peace and renewal to come back to ministry in the Dublin Archdiocese. Paul is a very kind man and very spiritual. He will be missed from Ministry if he is indeed going to take some time out. Well deserved time out too.

Fr Mullins was a fan of Gorgeous when he was in D6 as co-PP. Used to have exchanges on twitter and probably still is talking about his love of fine food, gin and travel. I can’t be bothered to look at his twitter account to verify if he still yacks on. He is involved in vocations too I believe.

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I wonder how many priests would get out if they possibly could ? The reason so many stay is because they lack options – they would lose income, housing, retirement benefits, standing, position etc. So, many just stay. Not out of conviction. But out of necessity. That is vey sad for them. I see them all the time. Going through the motions, heart not really in it, tired, fed up, disillusioned, and often finding anything that is meaningful to them elsewhere and outside of their main role and identity as priest.

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12.42

The reason they stay is also the reason they don’t speak out, openly and boldly, against ecclesial and episcopal malfeasance. They each traded in conscience for materialist baubles on ordination day.

These men never discovered ‘the pearl of great price’. If any of these freeloaders ever did, he’d quickly sell it down the market for a measly few quid.

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5.41

How do you know that these men had objectively good consciences? What is your criterion for judging them in such a favourable way? Is it as capricious as simply your morally approving what they did? If it is, then this isn’t objective appraisal; it is entirely subjective and impressionistic. It does not count.

These acts were of rebellion against an institution they each, freely, chose to serve at ordination, and in which they are choosing to remain as clerics.Therefore the standard by which they must morally be judged is, rightly, whether they were obedient to Church teaching on this matter. Clearly they were not, so for you to speak of them as you did is absurd.

If these clerics had renounced their ordination promises or vows (as Pat Buckley implicitly did all those years ago), then I believe I should pronounce different here; but they did no such thing. Which means that they are now publicly belying those promises or vows.

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MC 6:33,
The Commandment says; Honour thy father and thy mother.
You write of a relationship which is above a functional rapport and roots itself in the reality of a presbyteral family of which the Bishop is the Father and Pastor.

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Seamus at 7:07 you’re not helping your case here – that is the most codependent, sick, twisted, and immature thing I have ever seen anyone say about the relationship between clergy.

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Seamus at 7.07 is saying that the bishop takes the place of God himself and that a priest is therefore bound to obey him as he would God.
No wonder Magna didn’t continue the conversation with Seamus. Bonkers.

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Hey Seamus! If the bishop is the daddy, then those german priests should be doing what the daddy of them all, the pope, says, that they should not be blessing queer unions.
You shot yourself in the fut with that comment.

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A parish priest serves as the spiritual father to his parish. The bishop is a spiritual father for the faithful in his diocese and his priests. If some people, like Magna and his posse, want to look at that through a twisted prism, that’s their choice.
PAX

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Comments talking of priests staying in ministry because they have no other option are prettyaccurate. A senior priest in my diocese designates himself as “self-employed” on social media. How can any man getting a salary and the use of a house think he is self employed? If these benefits were withdrawn would he and others like him stay on? I sincerely doubt it. The result of men like this remaining is the cynicism and bitchiness which is often inflicted on laity and even sometimes on other clerics. The religious who wrote to the blog today is a sensible man, I hope he discerns a way to continue exercising the priesthood he has received regardless of which canonical box he will be put into upon his departure.

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3.01: De Integro: For Revenue Tax Purposes, clergy are listed as self employed. That’s the way it is. All income by whatever means is forwarded to accountants for revenue and all income and expenditure is and must be traceable. While many clerics – 30 + years ordained – may feel disillusioned and unfulfilled in ministry because of the changed and changing culture we live in, along with the disastrous fall out from the abuse scandals, generally we try to make our work relevant within our Parish settings. That’s the only way some of us survive and find something worthwhile in caring for those who still ask for and avail of our ministry. Those who have some financial security from family legacies can take time out or leave without unnecessary worries. Would I leave now in my late 60’s? Probably but not out of any dislike for ministry but because of the huge challenges we face in renewing the church, priesthood and parish lay ministries and which are overwhelming .

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You still wouldn’t put it on your Twitter header though would you. If you put ‘self employed plumber’ it means you’re looking for work. If you put ‘parish priest of X’ you’re telling the world about your ministry.

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Sorry to refer to yesterdays wee blog. Did you hear Bishop Pat that Fr Marsden is planning to unearth the secrets of Bishop Oakley. It will be deeply damaging. He bided his time. ‘Long runs the fox’

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6.00: For tax purposes, priests are defined as self employed. Seems strange to put that down on Twitter….strange.

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This really touched me. If I may, I’d like to offer this priest my heartfelt thoughts during what appears to be such a difficult time.
I’m also wondering if this priest has any support at all? Hopefully so.

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I respect your concern. I hope he has family support around him. He wrote very well. It’s a good indication that he has a good support network.
He should qualify for a sabbatical after 10 years. I hope he can utilise this for time to reflect and move forward with his life.

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I heard today that Marsden’s report on Oakley will be damning. Elsie is in the middle of it. Why can’t Elaie let go????

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Ohh interesting. Please tell us more Bishop Pat. Oakley (the snake) as he is was nicknamed from Oscott days. He is well known for gathering other snakes around him from Oscott days.

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David Marsden has been quiet of late. He has loads to spill on his days in Oscott. He has an agenda, yes like most he has. Spurned, yes big time and now willing to share.

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4.53: Marge, you are an idiot. Really. I care for the responsibilities and work given to me: I truly care for the parish I work in and for parishioners. I know you are incapable of grasping the concept of “caring” for a myriad of complex reasons, but caring was always my DNA, thanks to wonderful parents. Where did it go wrong for you? Why all this wasted “angst” energy? Your theology is self serving, hewn out of your experiences of rejection and all too cynical. God bless the many good priests…

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@5:16
I think you fail to understand the degree of contempt in which many caring people will hold you, simply because you focus on your own little furrow and think that is a caring thing. The sheer degree of the lawlessness in your church means behaving like that makes you an accessory after the fact.

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5.51: Magna, you simply cannot stand the truth that there are actually good priests in ministry. The ignorance and tone of hatred of this comment by you – or a supporter – is gratuitously offensive but also that of a bully boy. Unnecessary. Caring people recognise fellow carers but you lack any such virtue or ability. My own little furrow of 6,000 plus homes, 2 nursing homes and 4 schools gives me unending opportunity for a caring ministry and it is “the vineyard” given to me to care for. I don’t need your definition of caring nor your validation to know when I act with integrity. There is a deep psychological deficiency in your psyche which prevents you a normal, decent and rational human being. Again, why all this wasted “angst” energy?
Somehow the statement of fact about your inability to care has stung you deeply. Grow up, hater.

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Firstly, I’m not Magna.
Secondly I think I made it clear from my comment that I think clergy in ministry with a body with such a history of criminality are not good.
The purpose of my comment was to communicate to you how a growing number of people see you. So get used to it.
It’s very clear your complaisance won’t be shaken. I bet you even think I’m persecuting you.
To repeat again – *morally* consorting with an organization accused of torture and corruption on a huge scale is NOT the right thing to do and certainly does not indicate your goodness.
If you were a doctor and a hospital carried on the way the church does you wouldn’t risk your career, registration and reputation by working there. But you, on the other hand, are aligned to a criminal organization.
BTW you’ll be having this conversation frequently in the years to come and the problem is your alignment with a criminal organization.

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I have seen many abusers (religious and lay supervisors) in my lifetime to date.

But none of abusers above comes not even remotely close as to most dangerous sex predator I have ever seen.

Unfortunately my friends and I bumped into him in a pub in Wicklow years ago. His name – Larry Murphy as he was staring at 12 years old deaf girl for hours. We didn’t know his reputation that time as we ended up in a brawl with him and his friends, which the barman evicted both of us out. It was only years later that we realised it was him. His photo was very recognisable to us.

To date, in my experience, he’s the most dangerous predator I ever met, even worse than abusers above cos we recognised his traits quite quickly, borne out of abuse experiences in deaf schools.

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Oscott just needs to fly the rainbow flag from its tower and proclaim to the world it’s true identity as a palace for gin swigging active homosexuals …

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7.16: I get your point and completely understand your position. I don’t accept the “guilty by association” theory. And yes, I’ve had – and know I’ll have many similar conversations with people for as long as I live. In the present circumstances of church crisis of moral and spiritual credibility, remaining with my commitment to ministry is grounded and genuine but very challenged. I have expressed facts about my actions re: abuse and cover ups but only have received poisonous vitriol. As one who was abused for about 2 years (age 13/15), and for which I received therapy, I know the reality of the trauma of abuse. But, since being a priest, my realities of abuse aren’t important!! Sadly.

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Thank you for an honest response and for finally engaging with what I was saying.
As it happens im not even a Christian but have some ideas of my own of what would constitute a better response to this challenge. I know for a fact you wouldn’t like any of them! But there is a current running through conversations here, along the lines of people saying priests aren’t doing enough and priests in your situation bring stuck where you are.
Do you personally have any ideas of what the church and individuals could do as a better way?

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Fr Marsden has a shit load on Oakley. He is biding his time. Watching and waiting. A matter of time.

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He was ok as pastoral director when I was at Oscott. Not sure what he was like when he returned ed later on as Rector. He replaced Seamus Gilroy as pastoral director who died young with a heart attack.

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Reading the exchanges above I have just had a thought about a way celibacy may have contributed to the abuse crisis. I think the normal reaction of a parent to the thought of a child being sexually abused is revulsion and a wish to get the hell out of there.
If the clergy had children I think they would have been less likely to permit abuse.
That said many parents have not believed children when they said they were abused by a priest but I wonder whether this is because the parents were influenced by the celibate clergy’s ideas, thus celibacy would be behind the parents’ reaction as well.

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8.00
Celibacy, or its apparent reality, is a principal cause here. It adds to the fiction of priestly ontology: heroic holiness beyond that possible by a layperson. So of course, with such a culturally embedded , and highly plausible, myth, parents are not easily going to believe their buggered nine-year-old boys.

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7.16: Your analogy of a doctor staying in a hospital where abuse took/takes place is misjudged. There are lots of institutions in this state, political, financial, medical, schools, hospitals, charities where corruption, misappropriation of funds and abuses have occurred (swimming clubs, scouts, soccer clubs), but I haven’t witnessed a mass exodus of employees frim such organisations for fear of being tainted by belonging to their place of work. Have you? All abuse or corruption, by any person in any walk of life is morally repugnant. All criminal behaviour should be adjudged by civil courts appropriately.

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You’re talking about the Republic of Ireland, aren’t you? A confessional state with everyone under the jackboot of Catholic clergy there?
You underestimate the all consuming and malevolent influence there of these clerics. Had anyone resigned in protest at some malfeasance, these men would not have allowed him to work elsewhere, such was their influence in both the religious and secular worlds.

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Thanks 10:07 exactly what I was going to say.
This is also the usual diversionary nonsense of saying it’s the same everywhere which just indicates the moral vacuity of these people.
I am just watching the film linked above about an orphanage and it is exactly the same – the holy brothers are so holy. They seriously expect us to believe that all these decades on.
In fact a social worker has just said ‘Have you ever tried to go over the Catholic church in Newfoundland?’
It’s no use, holy priests, you’re going to have to think of a convincing response to the crisis in your church, because so far you’ve only followed your usual playbook.

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10.07: Another revisionist view of history and an all consuming hatred of clerics. God help you. I sincerely hope you are not a parent or a teacher or a football coach or a scout leader. What horrible values you’d instill..

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10.25: More closed minds who only want one narrative. Open your eyes a little wider. More ignorant, deliberate misinterpretations. You haters…

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10 25: That’s exactly what I was going to say! Really. Surely all opinions and arguments should be debated intelligently and rationally. You only want one viewpoint. Fact. When you follow the cheerleaders of hate on this blog, you only incite hatred, bias and prejudice.

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