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CLONFERT DIOCESE SOUNDS THE ABANDON SHIP ALARM.

Clonfert bishop Duignan

The above quote from the small Irish diocese of Clonfert is very interesting. I don’t know who thye author is but appeared on the Clomfert Facebook and a reader sent to me.

You don’t ever really hear much about Clonfert.

The comment highlights the problem facing Clonferrt and indeed all Irish dioceses at the current time:

  1. People no longer attend Church in the way they did.
  2. Most of those who attend are in the upper age bracket.
  3. Every year the pews get emptier.
  4. Parish finances are challenging almost evryywhere.
  5. Some parishes can not be maintained as parishes.
  6. No / few ordinations in years.
  7. Priests getting older.

As you can see from the map of Ireland Clonfert only covers a tiny part of the country.

And as Mass attendance is generally better in the rural areas it is quite telling that in the rural area of Clonfert the situation is dire.

What it must be like in the towns and cities?

We are heading for a time when a very tiny minority of “catholics” will be attending church.

Add that to the dwindling and disappearance of people offering themselves for the priesthood.

Add that to the dwindling income of parishes, dioceses and the national church.

If it were happing to any other big “company” the directors would be engaged on a quick process of closing branches and making workers and managers redundant.

In the case of the Roman Catholic Church in Ireland “branches” are already closing and the managers and workers will not have to made redundant – they will simply be allowed to die.

The RCC will trundle along for a while on the massive investments they own.

But when these run out there will be massive sale of buildings.

Your parish church will become you new pub or leisure centre or nightclub.

Some RCC churches will be converted into crematoria, mosques, temples and evangelical places of worship.

26 dioceses will be reduced to 3 or 4.

All schools will be run by the state or parents.

There will be as many practising Catholics in the whole country as there are now in a few big parishes.

Some are asking can the RCC in its present form be changed?

I say NO and should not be.

Some are asking if it can be changed.

I SAY no because the managers don’t want to change – and the image of the RCC globally is now one of evil.

The Irish RCC will have been destroyed not by materialism, secularism or lack of faith.

It will have been destroyed by bishops and priests – who have been arrogant, cruel, materialistic, lazy and sexually promiscuous and scandalous.

Of course, Christianity will survive.

 

127 replies on “CLONFERT DIOCESE SOUNDS THE ABANDON SHIP ALARM.”

Pat, your cynicism is boundless. If you seriously want an honest appraisal of realities, you should do so in a less vindictive manner. I believe you are observant enough and can articulate the crises and challenges facing the church. We have an almost insurmountable challenge for true renewal. Everything changes with time and the Church has been assailed by its own internal problems, unable to truthfully and courageously accept its role in the crises. Apart from the need to amalgamate Dioceses and parishes, close some churches, sell off properties and engage meaningfully about lay ministry, women priests and married priesthood, we will simply stay where we’re at, heading down cul de sacs. Since the pandemic of March 2020 till now a huge change has occurred in people’s understanding of religious faith, prayer and worship: a new paradigm is emerging whereby people who were once very loyal are now seeking their spirirual/faith nourishment through websites, you tube, religious sites on prayer and faith and many are comfortable with searching through parish websites for the “best” mass with music and good liturgy. There are cultural, social, educational, philosophical and historical reasons for the changes we are witnessing. The Church has lost all moral battles and faces a tsunami of judgment if it speaks its Catholic Truths. We have lost moral and spiritual integrity and credibility because of the sexual abuse crises and financial corruption. Much deep thinking will be required from all who are concerned about Catholic Christian Comnunities and Parishes. The need for radical dialogue by way of beginning some process of listening, renewing and being a Christ centred people of God will never be achieved by the bias or prejudice of those whose narratives are motivated only by a gleeful cynicism that prompts just one fatal response – “It’s all over..” Pat, why not a more rational, intelligent, passionate and honest debate without insult, mockery and fatalistic cynicism? We need new listeners, doers, encourages, affirmers and true Christ like adherents. Can you engage this way without focusing on your nemesis(es)? One thing we know: all has changed and changed irrevocably requiring vision, imagination and a new trust in God. A new aggiornamento or perestroika..

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Yes an honest appraisal should obviously take into account whether you will be willing to hear it. Jesus, you people don’t even know the meaning of the word honest, you’re so corrupt.

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12.37, when you’ve finished pleading your lost cause (even St Jude has given up on it), switch ON the lights on your way out.

The Era of Light has begun. One realising we never did, and never will, need a priesthood. You priests are, and always were, irrelevant.

Christ was right. And so is Magna.

If only we’d listened to Christ all those long years ago, we’d have suffered far less, and rejoiced far more in hope.

Especially the children.

‘Out damned spot!’

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8.52
The rhetoric is unmistakably mc.
This time he goes as far as paralleling himself with Jesus.
And speaks of himself in the third person.
His judgement is even poorer than usual if he thinks readers can’t see through his deceit.

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@10:11 very honest of you to admit you don’t even give Magna Carta the respect of reading his comments and just blast him from your hatred. Had you read them, you would see the complete dissimilarity with this comment.
Since you people are so paranoid that you’ve started seeing Magna Carta everywhere, I will again suggest that the actual author of a comment can be decided using plagiarism detection software. You have enough samples of comments by Magna.
But you don’t want to be proved wrong.

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They said the big bullock Geraghty with big ideas and ideas of grandeur would have been the new Bishop. Ex Thurles and product of that gulag we are not surprised he didn’t get a Mitre

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The future of the Catholic Church does indeed seem grim. Is it any wonder than a diocese like Clonfert is struggling? The evidence has been available for the decades. The Irish Catholic Church has continually perpetuated this failed model. The appointment of Duignan as Bishop is a stark example of this: the man was Spiritual Director to youth 2000, a group that attracts lunatics and right wing zealots. The Church covers up for abusers and fraudsters. They have turned into an organisation akin to the Mafia where power, control, money and sexual gratification at any cost is the normal culture. They exist in a bubble of arrogance and self congratulation. Duignan and his ilk are applauded by right wing homophobic groups such as Youth 2000 whilst a secret culture of and child abuse and promiscuity is ignored and continued. The financial affairs of parishes and groups are ignored: transparency and accountability do not exist. The Bishops parade around in their flowing dresses and gold. The true mission of the Catholic Church has been lost in a dirty, hypocritical and sleazy fashion.

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Do priests aged between 65 and 75 still be receiving salaries plus their state pensions? I wonder.

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Yes @ 7.00. Plus all the monies from the ‘brown envelope economy’.

These freeloaders do very nicely indeed.

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I think it should be very clear to all that the church is all about raking it in. So the answer to your question is, they wouldn’t dream of missing a trick.

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9.48am anon
Most of their decisions were centred around money.
Re book on best Catholics in the world, there was one parish, Edenmore as in their notes, they talked about money and sunday church collections.
Looking at their mindset from the book was an eye opener.
The reason for introduction of celibacy was down to priests wife claiming assets such as houses, land, money (no pensions unheard of in 1100 AD.)
So they cut it off on wife source of claim by introducing celibacy and kept monies to themselves instead of going to priests wives.
Look at other religion such as Anglicans, Lutherans, Russian orthodox married priests where rate of sex abuses are quite small in comparison to rcc.

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7.00
Yes and it is up to them what they do with their money.
However it seems the Bishops are going to accept the Clergy over 75 to take retirement or become Assistant Priests.

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Pat @ 12:47 – but you get your fees for Weddings, Funerals etc. For me all that goes to the parish to pay the diocesan salary.

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Now, now! God called him to the priesthood, fully knowing his proclivities and exactly what he would do. We musn’t criticise God, cos he can’t cock up .

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Even if Fr Walsh didn’t truly have a vocation, the teaching of the Church is that he got a vocation at the moment he received Holy Orders. That forced God to call him, apparently.

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One priest I know said as much about his ‘vocation’, based on that ‘many are called but few are chosen’ nonsense that is misapplied to RC priesthood. Jesus meant that in terms of redemption, not priesthood. Everyone is called to redemption, but some choose to ignore the call.
It doesn’t matter what way you slice this, RC priests are saying that God calls paedophiles, ephebophiles, rapists, corrupters, etc to the priesthood. It is all a load of bollocks, of course, but in wanting to think themselves special through divine vocation, priests didn’t think ahead to this.

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I wonder if the post will be removed once they find out you have your teeth, albeit implants, into it.

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Just look at how small many of those dioceses are! Time for Rome to act even if the Irish bishops won’t. They could start with the West and South where Achonry, Elphin, Killala, Clonfert, Ardagh , Galway, Cashel, Limerick, Waterford all need looked at and big decisions made. Move up North and decide on Clogher, Dromore, Kilmore, Raphoe, etc. Geographically speaking, Ireland is a tiny country and there are bishops everywhere. No new priests being ordained yet the bishop making process is endless.

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9.10
It is you who have the daft argument just like the older Clergy and Bishops.
Ireland will keep the Four Archdioceses however the Dioceses will be amalgamated as soon as possible.
Clonfert was a “political” appointment as the previous Bishop would not retire if the Dioceses was not getting a replacement.
Clonfert will likely be amalgamated with Elphin if Bishop Doran is appointed to Tuam.
It takes a long time to amalgamate dioceses in Canon Law and Civil Law.
Ever the Church as a Organisation needs to act with responsibility attitude.
The problem is the assets and liabilities as they belong to Parishes not the Dioceses.
The Republic of Ireland and the UK will have a slimmer and better Church fit for Mission and a modern view as it is the People’s Church not the Bishops or Clergy.
So I am delighted to say the RCC will be around for decades yet
God Bless

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It’s rather ridiculous that Elsie has made new clergy moves in Westminster but can’t find a place or PP to take Tom (Monty) Montgomery. His replacement in Harrow South & Northolt has been annouced but the poor bugger is faced with the ignominy of not knowing where he himself is going whereas everyone else does. Could we find a place for this poor sod to go. I know he has obviously blotted his gossiping copy book again and a bit too fond of the gin and his grub but surely someone could take him in. Elsie has made it known that he may have to put him on loan.

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When you back stab your PP’s as a result of booze and gossip on a continual basis then nobody wants to inherit you. Elsie was warned time and time again but refused to listen.

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Pat if Monty ends up in Clonfert please promise you’ll add the words ‘pimping problematic priests for Elsie since 2021’ to the blog header!

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Indeed, every week in the Northolt parish bulletin it has the same notice, saying Monty is awaiting Elsie’s decision about which parish he is going to next.
Another AP, who studied in Rome with Monty, is in the same boat. His replacement has been announced, but no news of his new parish too.
The third amigo, currently a PP, is being sent on loan to be an army chaplain, with tough officer training at Sandhurst. He was a pal of Monty in Rome, but has a great reputation and fours years under his belt as a popular PP.

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9.21am – you don’t half talk some rubbish. Mind you, if you say a lie enough times, people might start to believe you. Although I think the term is calumny. A sin against the eighth commandment.

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The church has had an obsession with clerical celibacy since the third century. The church’s mission at that time was about bolstering clerical celibacy.
They wanted to control priests and prevent married priests from having intimacy with their wives. It was far more politically correct to attack clerical wives than to root out the culture of clerical abuse of the young.
The Church needs to right that wrong. Women must be ordained. Followers of Christ must be allowed to meet in their community on the Sabbath, even when a priest cannot be present.
Should a community of followers of Christ be able to elect a deacon amongst themselves where a priest cannot be provided?
I have sympathy for communities that no longer have a regular Sunday service. Decisions are made at the stroke of a pen for financial reasons. Community groups will need to get together and find solutions.
For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.
PAX

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Will the penny ever drop for you? PRIESTS are the problem. Their very existence. So for you to wonder whether deacons could be elected by local communities, BUT ONLY IN THE ABSENCE OF A PRIEST, shows that you have learned absolutely nothing about the fundamental cause of the ever-widening faultline in the Church : PRIESTHOOD.

Jesus intended that ALL his followers be priests, male and female, if we must speak in such terms.

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Anon 9:17, the disciples answered the calling of Christ and the Apostles answered the second calling of Christ.
You can of course carry on with your life as a follower. It is no reason to throw stones at those who are answering the calling of Christ through their vocation.
Pax vobiscum! ☮️

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Your entire post at 9.26 is a non-sequitur. What has it to do with my post at 9.17?

Jesus called NO-ONE to priesthood. This is historical fact.

You are deliberately distracting with your remarks on discipleship.

Discipleship did not mean priesthood.

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9.26
Theologically unsound, Seamus.
An apostle is someone who is ‘sent’. Many of these in the NT.
A disciple is a learner.
Every apostle was first a disciple.

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Seamus can you give us a reference in the Catechism of the Catholic Church, a reputable published theological source, or in fact anywhere outside your own head for your first and second calls idea?

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Anon 9:35, disciples answered the calling of Christ. Priests have answered the calling of Christ.
Anon 10:54, every apostle was at first a disciple. Jesus called his disciples to him and chose twelve of them, whom he also designated apostles.
Anon 11:13, the calling of the disciples appears in Matthew 4:18–22, Mark 3:16-20, Luke 5:1–11 and John 1:35–51.

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The reason Seamus is so theologically unsound is obviously because he isn’t a Catholic and doesn’t have the first idea about it. He is also not a rabid Protestant spamming the blog or his comments would have a very different tone. Taking everything into account I will adjust my theory yesterday to: I think the person behind Seamus is an English-identifying and Protestant-identifying person from Northern Ireland. His motive for trolling the blog is an anti-Irish/Catholic (he identifies them with each other) one.

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Seamus at 12.17, Christ didnt found a priesthood, so he cant have called any of these men.
Why are you bolting from the truth?

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12:17, no one in this thread is denying that Jesus made apostles/disciples, but what has this to do with Roman Catholic priesthood? You keep conflating the two, which means that your understanding of the passages you quote is entirely eisegetical: you are interpreting them according to taste, not in accordance with their historical context.This is not biblical scholarship, but something I’d expect from Year 9 students. Jesus very likely sent out (the meaning of ‘apostle’) women as well as men when he dispatched 72 pairs of disciples, because Mosaic Law prohibited men from touching females, say, for healing. You really haven’t the slightest clue, have you?
Incidentally, the words ‘apostle’ and ‘disciple’ are sometimes used interchangably in the New Testament; you are making distinctions where none exist.
Apostles were also disciples, and vice-versa.
But even so, what has this to do with Roman Catholic priesthood? You still haven’t answered this question.

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Anon 1:04,
In the beginning, when Bishop Pat created the blog, he sought to expose the corruption, abuse and criminality.
Bishop Pat looked at everything he had made, and he was very pleased.
Bishop Pat blessed his comment makers, saying; Be fruitful, comment and reply, and fill the blog stories with comments, and let others reply on the blog.
PAX

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Seamus at 2.50 has clearly been out-argued, hence his attempt at gallow’s humour. To hide his embarrassment.

It’s hard admitting you were wrong. Isn’t it seamus?

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Anon 7:32, when I responded to 1:04 at 2:50, I couldn’t possibly be responding to 1:40 and 2:06 when they were not published at that stage. Do try and keep up! There’s a good lad! 😉

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No seamus you are the one whose posts just dont add up in terms of common sense.
You keep letting yourself down.

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2.06
No magna. Apostle and disciple are not interchangeable NT terms.
Every apostle is a disciple but not every disciple is an apostle.
Before one is sent out to preach (apostle) one must learn (disciple) what to preach.
So the distinction is real and concerns different stages.
Applied to ministry in the church, seminarians are disciples and when commissioned at ordination they are apostles.

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At 10.43, and yet the words ARE used interchangably in the New Testament. Are you trying to rewrite Scripture according to your taste? It won’t work.
Discipleship and apostleship are not, and cannot be, mutually exclusive. Christ commanded that ALL his followers, disciples/apostles go out to proclaim the ‘Good News’, principally by example.
You know NOTHING of the Gospel. You’re a fraud, priest or seminarian.

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What, genuinely, does the bishop of a micro-diocese such as Clonfert do all day? What does the auxiliary bishop of Armagh do, when not doing confirmations?

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I think 9:07am makes a strong point. Ireland could manage with a maximum of 10 or 11 dioceses. When you have a situation where the youngest priest in a diocese is actually the bishop (as in Clonfert) it’s time for radical action. Clonfert cannot exist on its own with 20 priests and not a sign of an ordination. Same story in Dromore, Achonry, Killala and several others. How many bishops are in the country, including retired ones? Probably 50 at least.

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Hey Seamus! How can Christ’s disciples be answering any call of
his when, like you, they insist on something he did not?

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Anon 10:46, Anon 1:40 & Anon 2:06,
Aaron was constituted as the single high priest. His sons Nadab, Abihu, Eleazar, and Ithamar ministered with him as priests – the middle level. All the Israelites were universal priests. A 3 tier priesthood.
Peter, the apostle, understood Jesus to be the high priest of the New Testament church. Jesus instituted twelve apostles as priests. They were entrusted with Divine authority as ambassadors of Christ on earth.
Peter calls Christians “a holy priesthood.” This does not exclude the existence of a ministerial priesthood.
The apostles cast lots to determine who would succeed Judas. This indicates that the apostles saw their apostolic office as the new priesthood of the New Israel of God.
In the New Testament Gospels, apostle is usually reserved for the 12 men Jesus chooses to comprise his close circle of followers.
The term disciple is used more widely than apostle and is commonly used to describe people outside of “the twelve”. Luke 6:13; Jesus chooses the 12 apostles from a larger group of disciples.
PAX

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Seamus at 6.55.

I am the poster at 10.46.

First, my comment there was about Christ, not Peter.

Where does Christ institute priesthood? The historical (actual) truth is ‘nowhere’.

You ignored this question, because the answer would not have fitted your preferred narrative. Instead, you self-conveniently introduced a strawman, a logical fallacy (something you always do when losing an argument), to shift attention to something or someone else you hope might reclaim the debate; in this case, you changed the focus from Christ to Peter. But you need not have bothered, since you made an absolute ‘horlicks’ of this, too. There is neither reference, nor even allusion, in either of the letters attributed to Peter that he understood Christ in that way. This is another thing you do when losing an argument, apart from introducing strawmen, you start to make things up, and, unfortunately for you, make an ignorant fool of yourself in the process. It’s all the coward’s way of not wanting to admit that he was wrong.

When Peter referred to ALL Christians as a holy priesthood, he was speaking FIGURATIVELY, not literally. The actual passage from which you quoted reads as follows: ‘…and LIKE living stones, be yourselves built into a spiritual house, to be a holy priesthood…’ (1 Peter: 5) I capitalised ‘like’, Seamus, to make it easier for you to understand the non-literal nature (simile) of this passage. Maybe you were quick enough to notice not just this fact, but that Peter confused the simile: ‘a spiritual house’ is not ‘a holy priesthood’. Don’t worry if this goes over your head; things of this nature inevitably tend to do so.

Just content yourself with knowing that you are wrong not just about Christ, and literal priesthood, but about Peter, and literal priesthood, too.

The Apostles by drawing lots made no such connection between this and priesthood, but predictably, you did, Seamus. Like your remarks on Christ and Peter vis a vis priesthood, it’s all in your head. And though these imaginings may excite you, they have no bearing whatever on biblical scholarship. No bearing at all on truth here.

The FACT that ‘apostle’ and ‘disciple’ ARE used interchangably in the New Testament is proof that the early Christians themselves made no such distinction between these roles. Who are you, Seamus, to say that you know better than they?

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Anon 7:43,
From Adam in the Garden of Eden to the “priests of God and of Christ” (Rev 20:6) at the end of the Book of Revelation, the priesthood is a major thread holding the biblical storyline together.
The story of salvation is an account of the gift of priesthood to Adam. His loss of it in the Fall. The long process of restoring his descendants to a priestly status over the centuries, culminating in Christ.
We are all baptised into Christ’s priesthood. Jesus did intend for there to be a ministerial priesthood in the New Covenant. An order succeeding from the Apostles that would perform for God’s people the usual roles assigned to priests: leading worship, offering sacrifice, interpreting God’s law for daily life, and mediating the forgiveness of sins, to mention a few.
(Matt 9:37–38); The harvest is ripe; let us pray to the Lord of the harvest to send many more workers into his field.

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Seamus at 8.16, you compound the nonsense posted earlier with your latest humbug. Are you really so desperate to vindicate yourself, Father?

‘Adam’ means ‘humankind’, and is a personification of it. There is no priesthood attributed to Adam, since Adam is not an actual historical figure: the Creation Accounts are drawn from extra-biblical sources, principally Sumerian; the Sumerians were pagans. Like some unschooled child, you are treating these stories as historical fact, and are using them as part-justification for the continuation of a priesthood the Letter to the Hebrews makes absolutely clear was made redundant by Christ’s death and resurrection. You haven’t the slightest clue about biblical exegesis, and are making a fool of yourself, yet again.

The incarnate Christ exposed the absolue futility of priesthood for salvation, since he had to do what it could not do: atone for sin, and effect the reconciliation of humankind with God.

That reference of yours to priesthood in Revelation is clearly connected with the Levitical priesthood, which Hebrews states is now redundant in light of Christ’s self-sacrifice. Your desperation to excuse RC priesthood is having you proof-text passages you clearly don’t understand.

Christ most certainly did not himself establish so-called ‘ministerial priesthood’. You didn’t provide even one scriptural text to justify that wishful thinking of yours; not one. Why? Because you know that your rotten priesthood, Seamus, is a travesty of Christ’s instructions that ALL his disciples break bread and drink wine in memory of him.

You want to maintain your position and status, over and above what Christ commanded. You cannot bear even the thought that you, and your fellow priests, are acting in disobedience to Christ’s example, and express wish.

You are, as I said in a previous post, a coward. But your days are numbered, all of your days, for Christ’s disciples are sick and tired of the damage you are doing to the church proper: to the actual Body of Christ.

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What’s the craic over in Glasgow this weather. Any word of the runners in the race for the archbishops post. Any new scandal?

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12.01pm That, contributor, is a nasty slur on good dioceses. How dare you speak in such terms. Be specific, provide evidence and have the guts to stand up and be counted. At the moment you are a coward, spreader of gossip.

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ATHER Grant Maddock is always being asked whether life as a Roman Catholic priest is really like the hit TV series Father Ted.says:

Father Grant admits that he enjoys larking about and playing practical jokes and pranks. But he says he is far too scared to target his colleague with his humour.

“We are very different and don’t share the same sense of humour. I don’t think that Father Gerry* would get my jokes and he would think that they’re just a bit stupid or childish…” (Fr. Gerry Proctor*, now defrocked after being found in bed with another man at At Margaret Mary’s presbytery, Knotty Ash).
Jones).

“Like Ted I enjoy life and enjoy a laugh,” says Father Grant. “I am seen to Regularly drink in the Club – but not like Father Jack. I don’t sit in the corner constantly saying: “Drink, drink, drink!”
when asked if they knew any good jokes Fr Grant Maddock says. “There is one. I’m not quite sure if it fits in with Catholic theology or not, but here goes:

“”Question: What is worse than a bull in a china shop? Answer: A hedgehog in a condom factory.”Well, I found it funny, anyway.”
Pressures and struggles in priesthood, Fr Grant goes on to say,
“There are some days when it can be Quite difficult and you think, ‘Have I made a mistake?”’
.https://www.thefreelibrary.com/We%27re+the+%27feck%27-free+Father+Teds%3b+Meet+the+real-life+answer+to+TV%27s…-a060654051

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Re: The above link.
I fear there is more to come about this Liverpool priest, you know +Pat.
Is what we have heard thus far just the tip of the iceberg? The answer: ‘It usually is.’
Is the file a liteny of the disasters and alarming behaviours not before openly, appropriately even, touched upon?
The truth will indeed set you free, and the truth can be revolting.

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Was a great pal of Fr Philip Brady and that priest in Liverpool that had a barmy Witt hIs housekeeper and landed up in an industrial tribunal.

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12.01
Send us the proof of your slanderous remarks about Three dioceses as it certainly is not true.
Yes there is Clergy in Glasgow and Motherwell c/o the Diocesan Offices as in the Case of Motherwell it is Rome that the delay there as for Glasgow we await the Appointment of the New Archbishop.
As for paisley there is NOT one bit of scandal all dealt with by John Keenan however I guess you are the Paisley Stalker and even place a18 yo in fear and alarm as he was trying to discern his vocation and he has decided the the Priesthood is not for Mr McNamara and therefore he is getting on with his life and everyone wishes him a speedy recovery as there is nothing worse than a stalker that affects the victims mental health.

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What’s happened to Diocese of Menevia – does it even excist anymore?
And Archbishop George Stack has he retired? If he hasn’t he should!!
Birmingham are selling land on Maryvale site for a developer to build 14 bungalows!!
The times they are a changing – imagine all that filthy lucre they can cash in by selling all that real estate!!

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12.28
Awaiting a decision from Rome about Menevia so it will likely amalgamate.
George Stack sent his resignation in there in May so awaiting Pope Francis decision.
Papal Nuncio working on Cardiff and Wales just now.

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Single Archdiocese needed for Wales with an auxiliary. There are very few priests in Wrexham mainly Indian and Africans on loan.

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9.02
So a far cry from the days of Pat’s early ministry when priests were so plentiful the PPs could treat them the way they treated Pat so horribly.

So, there’s at least one good result to the drop in vocations.

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7.50
Be assured the Papal Nuncio is working on Wales and Glasgow.
Archbishop Gugerotti’s First Secretary would confirm this to you.
There is nothing secret in the appointments hopefully before the Curia holiday’s till September.

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There are a considerable amount of people here getting very upset and animated about the Roman Catholic Church. This is what the Church has done for centuries. Some of the comments here are theologically illiterate and fail to progress the debate…I suggest you read over your comments before you press ‘post comment’. Corruption (financial and moral) has been flourishing in the Church thanks to the likes of Bishop Duignan, who let’s face it, is a character out of Fr Ted.

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Why wouldn’t people get upset and animated about the Roman C C?

Did you expect them to congratulate it over child abuse, etc?

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1.29: FrAelred: Liar: You have yet to respond to a commenter who asked you to validate your contention about Bishop Duignan. Show us proof. What an outrageous allegation! Scurrilous. As for being theologically illiterate? Not as bad as being MORALLY illiterate!! Be brave and prove your allegations which you have uttered.

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1.29: FrAelred: you must comprehensively validate your scurrilous allegation about Bishop Duignan as contributing to the flourishing of moral and financial corruption in the Church. That is a very serious allegation to make and warrants a truthful response from you and also warrants a law suit against this blog. Explain.

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Monty’s downfall began with that Lourdes trip and all the booze. He told Westminster clergy that +Alan Hopes had a fling with an ex Anglican PP in Westmister Hopes heard about it and wanted Elsie to get rid. Elsie put Monty’s diaconate on hold for a year. We also had the Beda incident when an Australian Sem broke Monty’s leg who was boozed up at the time. Maybe he should go on loan to somewhere like Merthyr Tydfil.

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My guess is that Monty (or the other AP without a new parish) will be reunited with Nurse Daley at Parsons Green (if the parish is large enough to need an AP). Currently newly-ordained Fr Marco is in residence there, but he will take up his new post in Kensington in September, under Monsignor Curry’s supervision.

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Monty did name Hopes and Stuart Wilson I recall from that boozed up incident in Lourdes. The only other thing I know for certain is that Alana Hopes got a phone call late that night from Lourdes to tell him what Monty had blabbed. Next thing you know the diaconal ordination was suspended.

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Hopes and Wilson were both in residence at OLV Kensington, together with the parish clergy. Hopes as Bishop of West London, Wilson as Head of CMOC’s “At Your Word, Lord” programme.

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Surprising to hear that +Duignan is the youngest priest in his diocese and the presbyterate numbers only around 20. What was the nuncio thinking when he recommended that they needed a new Bishop. There are dioceses in America which are roughly the size of a whole Metropolitan province here. We could easily manage fine in Ireland with six or eight Bishops maximum.

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Did Bishop Alan Hope have a fling with an ex Anglican PP in Westminster that’s what I want to know?

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Very derogatory comment here. You should not make these remarks naming people under the guise of anonymity.

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I wonder if just uttering the word ‘theologically illiterate’’ gives Fr Arlred a certain frisson of power and superiority – me thinks he thinks and says that a lot bless his little cotton socks!!

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Bishop Pat I don’t know about you but I have never heard of a curate’s (Monty) replacement being announced yet his Bishop willnot/cannot or is unable to announce where the said curate himself is going? Is Elsie playing tricks or buying time or both. I heard there is scandal involved which we might be reading soon in the Press.

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5.24. There are 4 APs who had their replacements announced without knowing where they are moving too. So drop the conspiracy theory and get over yourself.

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Ha ha ha. Monsignor Stuart Wilson I’ll have you know – now there’s a man in search of an ecclesiastical title if ever there was one – I guess he lives in Hope of another one – an auxiliary bishop im sure he and Elsie get on like a house on fire (not!!) – what is it about exactly Anglicans and their power grabs – cradles see right through them – the stench of their repressed and in the closet homosexually dressed up in ecclesiastical power plays – so predictable darling!!

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Ha, ha! He is a mere Canon, not Monsignor. However, Monsignor Philip Whitmore will be back from Rome soon. Where will Elsie send him? A parish? Or is he being lined up as a bishop?

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Whitmore is such a nerd incapable of any parish or even lowering himself to the level of the laity. That’s why these Clerics are elevated to Seminaries and such like. They are incapable and they train future priests for parishes when they can’t run a parish themselves. Do the hirearchy know or learn anything. Seminaries past and present are run by dysfunctional clergy, misfits, nutters and quare hawks.

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I don’t know where the title Monsignor comes from He is a canon. Quite different. Under the present Pope monsignor titles are few and far between.. Lots of derogatory remarks and errors about people in Westminster on this post.

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Vinny has destroyed this diocese allowing the Ex Anglicans run riot. They are in charge of the Seminary for gawd sakes. They were in charge of the Cathedral until recently. It is a cynical ploy and a warped message by Elsie how he really views Westminister but mainly its clergy who he once belonged. Vinny plays games big time but all a cruel cynicisim in the end.

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There is now a PP vacancy in Kensal Rise, as after 18 years the PP is taking over from the new “In the Army” recruit.

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I was at Oscott when the first lot of Angloids turned up. Mellor and Dinnis, Harrop, Crowe, Standen

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Though your expression might be considered intemperate, I agree with you. The flood of ex Anglicans, and the extraordinary indulgence granted to them – thanks to the highly unreliable Benedict XVI – is a scandal. Should you have an accessible reliable parish in your area such as the Manchester Oratory ( NB I do not include the other Oratories, which are staffed by all the usual types ), my advice would be to jump ship to the SSPX lifeboat. Having said that, I’m not a fanatic: there may well be a number of good Novus Ordo parishes – but I don’t any!

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GER FITZGERALD
Bishop Pat, is is true that Ger Fitzgerald and Yvonne are back together? Its the rumour here.

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Old stuff. Year 2009, 12 years old. Get a grip. You certainly have it in for the good canon. Oh by the way, Chelsea is a very wealthy area in the Royal Borough of Chelsea and Kensington.

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The area is wealthy, granted, but does he need to be a toff also? Expensive interior designs?

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Stuart Wilson (ex Anglican) Westminster, furnished his pad extravagantly and lavishly. The local clergy in Westminster knew it all before it appeared in the Papers. This is Nichols’s legacy. He couldn’t give a crap.

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Ha ha ha I love the idea that a parish which says the Mass in the vernacular- Novo Ordo is seen as in some way inferior to the rarefied Latin – which has v little to do with God and everything to do with sending gay signals – it’s code for I’m gay, your gay, we’re all gay!! As if being gay is the core identity to celebrate and signal (not shout about because safely locked up in the closet)!!

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The commentator at 6:21pm is brutally honest, and also factually correct. Whitmore is a highly talented man in many respects, but to have been made responsible for training future priests … ? I cannot imagine him in a parish. However, that goes for the majority of clergy, who – God help us – have been placed in parishes … having been recommended by none other than their seminary Rectors. Mgr Roderick Strange is another one: how or why could he have recommended poor old Monty for ordination? Rod, after a lifetime of disappointment regarding his clerical career, is now installed as Professor at St Mary’s, Twickenham. Nice one, after Oxford.

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Indeed, it reminds me of a highly intelligent PP on his third parish as PP, with 20 years of experience. His homilies are clear, engaging and well-constructed. He has a great self-depracating sense of humour. Yet he seems aloof and cold, unable to relate to lowly lay people. He upsets folk and tells off the organist for playing the “Proddy” (his word) tune to a hymn.

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Ohhh you open up a can of worms with Rod Strange. Strange by nature …… He did indeed recommend Monty at the Beda but Vinny was the Chief. Rod got sidelined by Vinny. The rest is still an ongoing scandal. It all revolves against one person – a liverpudlian Nichols.
The Liverpudlian who promoted Nichols to carry on his legacy was a man called Worlock. Follow the trail. Worlock didn’t want to give in either. They both have damaged and shaped the present hirearchy in England & Wales

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Ooh! I get your drift, but I don’t quite follow your thread. Nichols was indeed a Liverpool priest and got lucky with Warlock – who was himself a bitterly disappointed man in not having secured the Westminster succession following that benighted diocese’s last proper bishop in the person of HE John Carmel, Cardinal Heenan. Nichols finally succeeded where his mentor had failed – and no doubt learnt a few tricks of the trade in the process. It would be fascinating to know how Nichols regarded his confère, Rod – though Rod belonged to a different diocese, Shrewsbury – and, in any case, Elsie would have hardly tolerated a good-looking rival. At least, in my opinion, Rod Strange has held onto his intellectual and moral integrity. Say no more re Elsie! Apologies to Irish readers for this English gobshite.

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9.40pm You don’t get my drift? Many don’t. Doesn’t that not explain to you how Worlock and Nichols ran rings round you and made fools out of you!!

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Bishop Pat,the contributor was 100% on the nail @7.44pm. Archbishop Worlock is still a stain on the English and Welsh Bishops.
Vin Nichols is his protege and has a lot to answer for too.

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