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SHOULD WOMEN PRIESTS REALLY EMULATE THE MALE CLERICAL COLLAR OR HAVE A DISTINCTIVE SYMBOL FOR THEMSELVES?

Personally, I think the lady vicar above looks ridiculous.

A black clerical collar inside a gay rainbow dress or dressing gown.

To me it looks gimmicky, frivolous and like something someone with no taste would wear in a Pride march.

And this lady is an ITV religious presenter.

Sadly, for many, the clerical collar has become the symbol of sexual abuse and corruption of all kinds.

Thats sad. I can renember when the clerical collar attracted warmth, acceptance, confidence and was a sign that anyone, especially anyone in any kind of trouble, could approach you or come to you.

I am quite a dedicated wearer of the collar.

For me, the collar is two things:

1. A public reminder of Christianity and Christian ministry.

2. An invitation to approach for help, support, understanding and service.

I persevere with wearing the collar for the two ideals above.

I do understand that in many ways it may now represent various kinds of barriers.

If we are going to have female ministers, and we already have, why can they not create a new symbol for themselves – perhaps a symbol representing all that the feminine brings to ministry and caring?

Lots of priests have not worn the collar for a long time either:

1. To be KOOL.

2. Out of fear of abuse or attack.

Of course some priests don’t wear the collar because they don’t want people to see them misbehaving in some way.

Im sure Dick Purcell never wore the collar or habit to the sauna 😀 – even though some there would find it a turn on.

Our symbols should always be appropriate, meaningful and inspiring.

I dont think the clerical collar goes well with a rainbow gown 🤮

PATS PICS

First Holy Communion Day with sister Mag, Carlow 1959.
Ordination Day. Waterford. 6.6.76

Bishop Russell and Joe Seery are both dead. RIP.

135 replies on “SHOULD WOMEN PRIESTS REALLY EMULATE THE MALE CLERICAL COLLAR OR HAVE A DISTINCTIVE SYMBOL FOR THEMSELVES?”

Some women priests wear more feminine blouses with a dog collar which looks good. My own opinion is that clergy should be discernible by their behaviour.
I love your comment about Dom Dick and the sauna!

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Pat. You claim to be all accepting but your comment about the Revd Kate Bottley is frankly misogynistic. You are a man of contradictions.

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He can invite me for tea anytime he wants and Ill answer all his questions.

Alibrandi invited me twice 😃

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Pat, you are as much of a hypocrite as those priests you forever condemn. You can only surmise as to why priests may not wear a collar. I wear it when appropriate for mass, funerals, schools, officiating at ceremonies…visiting the sick..etc..but during the day it doesn’t bother me too much. I don’t depend on it for my identity and it represents a clericalism which you vehemently condemn. You really are full of contradictions. It’s strange how you accuse Catholic Priests of clericalism and yet you live and sleep in your vestments…all more clericalist than any priest. It’s the heart that matters and the caring ministry that we carry out. Get real.

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You ask: “If we are going to have female ministers, and we already have, why can they not create a new symbol for themselves – perhaps a symbol representing all that the feminine brings to ministry and caring?“
We answer: Because priests, whether male or female shouldn’t have distinctions. The fact you define her as a “lady Vicar” is part of the problem, it suggests that you do not rank woman and men as equal.
Until “women priests” are just thought of as “priests” then the days of misogynistic attitudes in the church are not over.
You probably should reword your original post.

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I have no issue with a woman priest , or what she has on , as woman priests do not exist in the eye’s of God .

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2.49
I don’t know which is the more off-putting, your bad grammar or your bad theology. You can do something about both.

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2.49
Nor do male priests, since Christ’s death and resurrection obviated priesthood. These achieved what priesthood never could and never did: atonement for sin and the surety of redemption for those who want it.
Priesthood is an anachronism and a hindrance.
You, priest, are not needed. Pack your bags and go with whatever sullied grace your disgraceful priesthood has left you.

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Pat, never knew you had Carlow connections. I don’t like this woman. Not because she is a woman or a female vicar. I don’t like her because she is a money grabber. She found fame on Gogglebox and that then transported her on to ‘Songs of Praise’ etc. The Ballyclare man on the ‘Escape to the Chateau’ programme and now the ‘Our Yorkshire Farm’ people causing controversy have all caved into money and fame just like the lady Vicar.

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There is indeed an interesting contrast to be drawn in the pictures of the female religious and that of the 1976 ordination. Priests such as Fr Joe Seery hid behind the Catholic regalia, it remains a symbol of power and control. It is this very dysfunctional power and control that attracted Seery and his ilk to the structure and culture of the Church. Dom Dicky Purcell is a prime example of this. As a priest in a neighbouring diocese I observe Dom Dick parade and prance about in such regalia only to be abandoned when he travels to far away fields for his other life. The female religious in the photo uses the collar as an expression of change and modernity, an expression of disruption to both power structures and the status quo. For many the collar represents an abuse of power. For people like Purcell the collar was a way to escape who they were and deny their true self. A new self identity is constructed and for some strange reason they can justify the hypocrisy. The double life becomes the norm. I would be slow to condemn the rainbow dress with the collar, I feel the image disrupts the traditional use by religious. Priests in 2021 have no right to claim the collar in the traditional sense, it has been used to mock society for a long time. Bishop Pat, you have fought against this hypocrisy and for this you must be applauded. The yes men in the Church are being made Bishops. Those who stay quiet and gather the dirt are made bishops. Secrets in the Church are a powerful currency, exchanged for the regalia and ceremony. Far too many remain quiet. The Church needs disruption and honesty. I do not have the courage. I applaud those who have. I decided to stay in the Church and fight from within. In this I have failed.

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7.48
You, priest…I’m lukewarming to you, so I am.
I think we could have a fruitful discusion over a drink or two. Oh, no! We cant, can we? I gave up the drink.
I suppose it would have to be over a genteel cuppa, then.😕

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Your comments are very true. There are a number of priests who appear on radio and tv trying as hard as they can to be trendy and funny. It doesn’t work – they become quasi-celebrities and fall into the trap of seeking popularity. The worst is Rev Kate Botley who is the biggest show-off imaginable. Twitter @revkatebottley

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I agree that the dress and collar look silly ( a bit pantomime drag )but I’m inclined to say she is probably just expressing her personality.
I’m a minister and have an earring and a stud in my nose. Both my arms are covered in tattoos. I work in inner city Manchester and some people might find me intimidating ( and some people probably fell I look like a pantomime villain ) the people I prefer to work with see me as one of them.
I’d the heart is sincere it will get its message through.

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9.07am I take you point – agree. The Revd Kate and others, however, seek to be celebrities and pander to that modern phenomenon, lapping up the love of thier followers. Lacks depth. Nuf said.

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She couldn’t be any camper than this old fag.
R.99ab9585a997fc36741111a3c31dc2e8 (620×425) (bing.com)

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Bishop Pat. Be aware of Okolo. He is asking loads of questions about you prompted by Roche in Rome who is senior to him.

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He can invite me for tea anytime he wants and Ill answer all his questions.

Alibrandi invited me twice 😃

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10.00
You are talking total B******T.
Archbishop Jude Okolo is more interested in his next career move and certainly Bishop Pat only comes in to conversations if the Nuncio gets correspondence from Bishop Pat he then asked the Bishop concerned and then sends it all of to Rome.
Archbishop Jude is an Administrator as he said himself a note taker.
Jude and Arthur are equal in rank both Archbishops however Arthur is a prefect of a department in Rome.
Arthur will be made a cardinal this year.
Archbishop Jude works for the Diplomatic Services are really has nothing to do with the real oiling of the engine room.
It really is the Nuncios First Secretary that keeps the Nunciature operating and some weeks Archbishop Jude never hears from some Bishops.
Archbishop Jude’s most important job is to represent the Holy See not administer Dioceses as that is down to Cardinal Marc Ouellet and his team

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Anon at 2.16pm
He was more than a note taker. He was a canon lawyer to boot plus an interrogation with severe penalties such as excommunication to a prepubscent boy without the presence of his parents.
The reward for that job is successive promotions to a rank of cardinal and promise of his silence.
Could see one name similar to Brady is Galvin.

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10.00 a.m.
There’s Jim S at it again: giving us the real story of bishops and cardinals. The real point of these delusional posts is: look at me. I know what goes on behind closed doors in the corridors where it all happens.
His grammar has improved. His content has got proportionately worse.

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A lady vicar spoke very well at the Christian Unity services that I attended. May all women be inspired by the apostle of the apostles.
If clergywomen want to wear black, let them wear black. If they want to wear blue, let them wear blue. If they want to wear pink, let them wear pink. Clergymen can do likewise.
The lost Abbot and the sauna? I guess not! The wayward shepherd was unidentifiable or so he thought.

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Any news in Blackpool? Are they still shutting Churches left right and centre? Is it truer that their Bishop is now living there?
What about Paisley, Glasgow, Edinburgh or anywhere else in Scotchland? Where is Jardine? Has his Bishop or Diocesan Administrator I should say cut him off? Not the same without his humour lol.

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11.10
Bishop Paul resides in Morecambe
Father Etienne has been instructed to inform the faithful that he is being transferred to Carlisle as a Curate on the 1st September but somehow he has made no announcement does anyone know if he is refusing to move or going to joining the Latin Mass Brigade.
St Monica’s Blackpool will not reopen it is closed for good.
Holy Family is needing a new heating system and many repairs so it maybe getting amalgamated with other parishes.
Gilbert has made is clear he does not want Glasgow so Keenan, Nolan and McGee is the three names away to Rome so looks like Keenan.
Pen Pusher Gerard Maguiness thinks he will get Paisley or Motherwell.

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The only argument against the ordination of women which I think holds any water is the argument that it wouldn’t be traditional. I’m not convinced by the suggestions made that there have been women ordained in the past, but only because I think the evidence isn’t clear, possibly as a result of destroying any evidence there was. If ordination of women was a mainstream thing it would be going some to have left no evidence at all.
I’m fascinated by the way Carthusian nuns read the gospel at their profession – if that isn’t an ordination of sorts I don’t know what is!
I also don’t like the idea that women should be ordained as an equality thing and much prefer the idea that the patriarchal church has failed and we need to do something different. For that reason alone I don’t think they should ape their male colleagues and should set out to be different. The church of England is flirting with a new model of church which is much more lay led, in an attempt to get away from the parish system. It’s doubtful it would work but any future of the church is bound to be in different models, just not imposed from above.

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Bishop Swarbrick was visiting Blackpool where he was PP years ago. He doesn’t live there. Bishop O’Donoghue sold the swanky Bishop’s house in Lancaster and refurbed part of the Cathedral House and lived there. Bishop Campbell then purchased a lovely home in Morecambe where he and Fr Billing lived and they had a nun there to serve them. Bishop Paul now lives there, so is settled in Morecambe.

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Is that where +Elsie and Carmel have their caravan? They will have a lovely retirement taking afternoon tea at Carnforth Station reliving ‘Brief Encounter’

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POD is a fraud. Wolf in sheeps clothing like loads of Bishops. Sold the big house in Lancaster as a PR exercise, Westminster got shot of him as Auxiliary and ohhh where did he end up – back in Cork. Don’t make us laugh.

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And even better with a scapular and hood because you have somewhere to put your hands. Not to do anything rude, I mean.

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Bishop Pat you missed a big interview in the Business Post on Mount Melleray last week and a big interview with Abbot Purcell where we read all about his CV and his time in Cistercian abbeys in Ireland. There was some great PR for Mount Melleray. Google it.

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Perhaps Purcell could follow Big Mick Lomasney’s example a wear a clerical collar on his member for his next carefree afternoon at the Boiler House….

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Bishop Pat do you have the uncensored pic of the clerical collar on big Mick’s member? Did he live up to his nickname?

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This is Purcell’s attempt to put on a brave face. The Cistercians are worried about the fallout of Purcell’s double life. They are a small order, he has been involved in a number of communities. His actions will cause great damage to their mission. Do not be fooled by a silly little lifestyle piece in a Sunday paper with limited circulation. Meetings have taken place, Rome is worried. Expect one hell of a show when it comes crashing down! Purcell will bring other clerics with him.

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12.16
Get a life “Rome is worried”
The only thing that is worrying just now is the health of Pope Francis.
The Congregation for Institutes of Consecrated Life and Apostolic Life is addressing the issues concerning the Cistercians and Abbot Purcell however they have asked for EVIDENCE and not hearsay Evidence.
Hopefully be solved by the Autumn however it has not reached Pope Francis yet and he will likely sign the recommendations.
Even a Cardinal does not worry Rome as they are well prepared for it because at the start of this Pontificate it was a media competition between Pope Francis and Cardinal Keith Patrick O’Brien and you can guess who won.
Religious Orders are branches within the Church and some are closing but the Church lives on.

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I appreciate the measured contribution @10:55am, and agree that the only possible objection to women’s ordination is tradition. The so-called theological arguments do not hold water, even though Anglo-Catholic bigots used to out-do each other in unpleasantness which said much about their own internal contradictions. I recall for instance: “might as well try to ordain a donkey” and “selling dud vacuum cleaners”. Dressing up is harmless up to the extent where it undermines credibility, and, I think, this is an issue when “lady vicars”, rather than developing their ministry in new and creative ways, seem only too keen to become clericalised. One female Oxford chaplain celebrates with a maniple; another at Cambridge appeared at Stephen Hawking’s funeral sporting an elaborate lace cotta, and black and gold stole. We question whether it is still appropriate to address a priest as “Father”, which is only culturally conditioned and by no means universal, yet “lady vicars” sometimes affect the title of “Mother”. In my naïvety I used to think that a nun was operating in the parish; now it puts me in mind of the boss of John Steed and Emma Peel in the old Avengers. Mother Burke springs to mind too – in other words ridiculous!
I’d also like to see the back of the zucchetto and fancy sashes worn by bishops, and lower clergy with pretensions. As for the ludicrous biretta: Archbishop Lefebvre himself frowned upon it as vainglorious.

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Mother in the Avengers wouldn’t have stood any of the nonsense things you mention and that Mother thing does my head in!

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Despite the number of clerics in that picture, with or without Greginic, you can still count the members of the actual community on one hand!

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Can we stop referring to them as “lady vicars”? They are vicars. You wouldn’t dream of referencing a lady teacher or a lady doctor would you?

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They are a non entity. Who could treat them seriously? Why do we have flying bishops in existence ffs?

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@4:58 Some would regard Pat Buckley to be a non-entity and yet he is taken seriously.

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Today’s discussion is a waste of time, and time for the priesthood, and for the integrity and appeal of Christianity, is running out.

Priesthood is destroying Christianity, because priesthood was obviated by Christ’s death and resurrection ; this is a fact, and it is confirmed most expressly in Hebrews.

Every fracture in the history of Christianity had priesthood as the sole cause: right from the earliest schisms through to modern times, with its sexual-abuse scandals.

We will never know the true power and vivacity of our Christian faith, its innate tendency to liberate and transform, until we accept that ministerial priesthood must be abolished, literally for the good of the church.

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White collar does remind us of their legacy of abuses. I don’t look at that collar anymore cos cbs was wearing one for instance. For me and other deaf boys now adults, it’s represents a legacy of total control and gross abuse of their power on their part. They broke that trust that a white collar implies to. A white collar just a show, fancy dress, lace et al.

11 apostles didn’t wear white collar. No mention of it in the bible. 1 apostle gone rogue which was judias iscariot. It suggests to ourselves that there will always be rogue priests, bishops, Cardinals and popes out there (ever hear of borgia?).

It will continue as bible indicates cos of one of the 12 apostles gone rogue. This implication was that rcc wasn’t perfect at all and also rogue ones as well. Its a reminder that it continues to this day.

I don’t think jesus intended to found or establish rcc.

May I suggest that Mary madgelene was the first female priest although no proof existed though. Jesus was always surrounded by women even up to his death on the cross even though apostles fled with the exception of John the apostle. So why male Church with no diversity, abandoned married priests in 1100 AD in pursuit of wealth and control and also addiction to power.

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Very good points, DG at 4.35.

I respectfully disagree with your choice of Mary Magdalene as the first priest. If we must use that redundant word, ‘priest’, at all, then the first female priest was surely Mary, Jesus’ own mother. She offered him to the world through the tabernacle that was her sacred womb, and she always pointed away from herself to her son as the centepiece and means of human salvation.

Contast her modesty and wisdom with the hedonistic, self-aggrandising, and frequently criminal conduct of romanist priests. Who is centrepiece at Mass? It isn’t Christ, really: it’s the romanist priest, with his silly vestments and his fanciful notion that he is an ‘alter Christus’. That it is he, alone, not the community that gathers for worship, who brings God down from heaven in the moment of consecration. If this is not upstaging Christ, then I do not know what is.

Attending Mass is not just (or, arguably, not even) an act of worship; it is an affirmation of Romanism, an evil perpetrated on Christ’s community centuries ago, and perpetuated by priest-hedonist-parasites today.

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MC at 5.21pm
It slipped my mind re VM. I agree with the sentiment of your comments 👆.
First female priest would be her cis she’s endowed with the gift of HS as she carried in her womb. HS would be all around her and inside her. She is the ark as jesus was the convenient. Such was her modesty and wisdom but rcc became so misygontic and anti women.
What is it that rcc don’t like or hate women? Women are only human just like the rest of us with all its flaws and brokenness. Still they as women get omitted in the church and scorned by cardinals and bishops.
On different tack, have a problem with issue of mortal sin, cos mortal sin wasn’t mentioned in the bible. I believe its rcc who brought up that very word which isn’t biblical. Attending Sunday Mass wasn’t mentioned in the bible, just mainly to stop working on any Sunday to give God your attention.
Only thing that I know was close to the issue of mortal sin was sins that cry out to heavens for vengeance. This I believe might be a criteria for serious sins. Nowhere was mortal sin mentioned in the bible, so surely it was man made word to make it up for it.
Venial or mortal sin wasn’t in the bible nor was sex(its not biblical) . Just mainly sin as that was it.
Sometimes I don’t get it re ‘ alter christus’ cos of lack or religious education or practically nothing at all just little bible stories. Is that rcc theology or what?

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Deaf Guy.
Will you always want to be known as Deaf Boys now Adult Boys and there must be Deaf Girls too.
Thankfully in Scotland it is the hearing impaired people.
You cannot discriminate under any circumstances in Scotland hopefully Ireland will come up to speed.
If someone referred to me as a P*** he would be jailed for it or any other nasty fouled mouthed people it shows the level of them.
So be one be refer to who YOU are not a Disability.

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6.48pm anon
You have demonstrated a total naive and totally blinkered view of what’s ‘hearing impaired’. I take it that you have never met a deaf person or a signer yourself.
Hearing impaired is a medical terminology which implies damaged hearing. My ears isnt damaged but gone, nada, nothing or zilch.
FYI, hearing impaired,” which implies a deficit or that something is wrong that makes a person less than whole… Thats a medical model.
It doesn’t incorporate social model into account. Its a medical model which doctors have a limited view of what fully functioned deaf person can do, can drive cook, work and make love et al same as medical doctors or yourself. The only thing that separates us from you is loss of total hearing. Thats it.
We as deaf don’t regards it as disability cos everyday lives we can cook or drive or work or make love same as yourself.
The only thing is when communication or communication between us fails then I have a disability. If communication is perfect then I don’t have a disability. So how do you GET it?
Eff off, eff off and eff off.

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6:48 people usually let the person decide themselves how to describe themselves.
For example some gays will call themselves fags.
You need to go on some diversity training – a lack of training does not however excuse your rudeness.

If you had any awareness of the deaf world you would know that many deaf people proudly call themselves deaf.
I’m sure you would be offended if I said you were thinking impaired and manners impaired, wouldn’t you.

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I’m up for married priests cis it would reduce sex abuses far more that we would like. Take a look at married priests in Anglicans, Greek or Russian orthodoxes, coptic or Lutherans, not one whiff of a sex scandal in these above mentioned religions except for rcc.
It seems to me that celibacy is the issue despite its a discipline not a dogma. That discipline was introduced in 1100AD when they removed married priests in pursuit of theirwealth and power.
Just a reminder some of the apostles were married in the first place including Peter.

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Shut up deaf guy. What a foolish statement because you are a fool. Look up sex abuse in the Anglican Church first before even moving on to the other denominations. Idiot.

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4.54pm
It’s rcc who has the highest rate of abuse. Im aware of other religions such as Anglicans or episcopal or Baptist or whatever it is they called themselves. But its rcc who has the highest rate of 4% to 7% as regards to abuse. It came from Richard Sipe analysis and finally his report.
There will be abuse in every religion no matter what. However its rcc who had the highest figure, not including figures not reported as of yet might come up in near future.
Anyway, are you a priest 🙈👅😉?

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Keep posting here, DG, because these parasites, scroungers, spongers and moochers are frightened of truth; yours most of all.

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Anon@ 4.54. I have an ethics lecturer as a neighbour. We’ve just been looking at the blog comments. He would like to use your comment as an example of pig ignorant ad hominen intolerance of another person’s perspective. Would you mind?
I thought it only polite to seek your permission 🤔

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4.43: Deaf Guy: you said on more than one occasion recently that you were weaning yourself off this blog. Would you just go. You are so boringly repetitive. You also need to study some professional clinical research re: abuse, clergy and celibacy. You also need to inform yours about the reality of family, domestic and sexual abuse in homes. Please do a little learned research before spouting so stupidly.

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Anon 4:54, the guy commented in error. No need to belittle him for the mistake.
DG 4:43, research in England and Wales heard from victims of abuse within Anglican, Catholic and other Christian denominations, and other religions – including the Jehovah’s Witnesses, Islam and Judaism.

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Yes Deaf Guy please keep commenting here – it annoys the cathbots and that’s reason enough, don’t you think?

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MC 5:33; “Keep posting here, DG, because these … are frightened of truth; yours most of all.”
Oh DG come to Magna’s aid! Oh DG don’t be so hasty to abandon Magna!

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Deaf Guy, the blog Surviving Church is written by a retired Anglican priest about abuse in the Church of England. Not just sexual abuse of children but other misuses of power as well. The world of Anglicanism is very different to the RC church and very complex but the Thinking Anglicans site is one I think you would like.
4:45 could have made his comment in a civil way but couldn’t miss the opportunity to abuse someone.

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Anon at 6.04pm

Care to comment on world of anglicanisn very different to rcc. I’m all ears as I want to know more about it.

Just let you know that I’m not familiar with world of anglicanisn except for that they don’t believe in VM, issue of Consecration, bible only(sola scriptura). That’s about it.

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The Anglican Church is built on rot and is rot. Changes the goal posts every 5mins. Richard Chartres, former Bishop of London, would not ordain women or robe in the same room as them. What did the false religion do – they made a female Bishop of London who hates men. Great result. Vinny has had a shed load of them over since they ordainded women.

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6.20, I hope you’re not a Roman Catholic. If you are, you are in one enormous glasshouse and are breaking a lot of panes with those stones you’re throwing.

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Deaf Guy at 5:33
Very different because much more varied than Rome – in fact some Anglicans will believe in all the things you mention!
The original church of England is now one of numerous Anglican churches worldwide plus a number of other groups which are Anglican in feel but may or may not be in communion with all the others.
If I say that some Anglicans say the group is Protestant, others Catholic, others both, and others neither of these it will give you some idea.
There is a very good book called Anglicanism a Very Short Introduction published by Oxford.
Be careful of reading online because most of what you read will be coloured by one party line or another. Be particularly wary of things from the US because the Episcopal Church of the US is much more liberal than pretty well everywhere else.
The reason Anglicans make RCs foam at the mouth is they have retained the three orders and consider themselves the national church in England. Rome’s official position at the end of the nineteenth century was that Anglican orders were invalid.
Don’t tell them I told you this, but if you go by what they said then, RC orders now are also invalid!

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Anon 7.20pm

Very good explanation as its much appreciated. Thanks cis I’m learning all the time about anglicans. Have few protestant friends here as I noticed that they are honest and upright etc. (I mean irish protestants not UK ones).

I was aware of episcopal church re their very Liberal views as I met some of them in the states. Very liberal than most Catholics in the states..

What three orders are you referring to re Anglicans? Just curious.

I won’t say re you.

I started to suspect RC orders invalid cos I met a healer (deceased rip) from Donegal. He healed lot of level 4 cancer people thar rcc couldn’t heal. I was intrigued to be honest. I was puzzled why rcc couldn’t heal people as they claim to be. So laity in rcc started to report him to Bishop cis he was preaching inside church. So he got himself barred or outed by rcc and their laity. So he moved to hotel la or ball rooms to preach. He said rcc was teaching people the wrong way etc. He’s a Catholic healer with v strong views that bishops don’t like it. Hence he was ostracised and sent outside to preach. That’s rcc for ya. He thought me one prayer as I was astonished it worked.

So if it worked outside rcc then rcc might be invalid cos it didn’t work. Remember that jesus healed lot people at that time there were no churches as all took place outside.

So it got me thinking what if rcc orders invalid🤔

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Guaranteed way to get a Roman to show what total haters they are – mention the Church of England!

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A 2002 government-sponsored report showed that 94.2% of all boys abused were by people in society. The corresponding figure for girls was 98.6%. So the overwhelming majority of child abuse in Ireland was carried out by people who were NOT bound to celibacy.
This is no excuse for the Church failings however, dating as far back as the third century. Some vile creatures have tarnished the clerical attire. They were ravenous wolves dressed as sheep.
One can hope that the strong safeguarding seen in parishes around the country, is stamping out the heinous crimes.

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Actually the evidence (as shown by payouts to survivors in the US) is that there is significantly more CSA by RC clergy than others, but this may reflect an earlier stage if other denominations are heading for the same crisis.
Evangelicals in particular have a huge problem of domestic violence.
No other denomination shows quite the same international criminality and financial corruption of Rome. Other denominations which run banks (for example the Salvation Army) will have altruistic reasons for running them, will not avoid accountability like Rome has and certainly will not have the cheek to name their bank after the Holy Spirit.
The key thing which all this research tends to miss is that RC clergy are manifestly a crowd of self-serving weirdos who don’t even believe in their own religion and who you wouldn’t trust to run a hotdog stand.

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6.20
The RCC does not have robbing room as the Clergy get vested before Mass.
As for the attraction of the ex Anglicans to the Ordinate well they seen the True Faith.
the Faith of Our Fathers.

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6.50

Proportionately, the incidence of child abuse in the RCC is GREATER than that in society in general, since the numbers of priests is much smaller than that of the general population. As the incidence was facilitated by the Church’s systemic policy, from the papacy down, to cover up the abuse, then this, too, was a form of child abuse, not least because it enabled the abuse of additional children. In this respect, abuse of children by the Roman Catholic institutional church was virtually 100%…a perfect statistic. This is not the case for society in general.

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Deaf Guy you need to take of your rose tinted glasses.
Anglicans, Greek or Russian Orthodox is just as bad as the RCC.
It is just the media that choses to pick on the RCC and that is fine they can pick on the Best Organisation in the World as they have nothing else to pick on.
The RCC is easy meat for the media however they should look at the Anglicans and the Church of Ireland with the bed swapping, the open relationships, the divorcee and not forgetting the closeted gay clergy attracted to our Clergy.
The RCC will not get rid of the Celibacy in this Pontificate or the next.

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‘Best Organisation in the World’
When the nurse comes round with your injection, TAKE it this week.

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Anyone with any moral sense at all, let alone a Christian, would not respond to a crisis of abuse in their own church by thinking the media should look at everyone else.
You are disgraceful and despicable.

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Okolo has applied ages ago to the Vatican to get him out of Ireland. He absolutely hates it and its Hirearchy. He has been a totally useless appointment anyhow.

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5.29
Archbishop Okolo is going next May as he hates it and really because he is not spineless like Charlie Bhoy was.
I just hope he puts the knife into Amy and stop him getting a Red Beretta this year.
Archbishop Okolo is not useless it is the spineless people he has to work with like Amy the Soprano or sleepy old brigade with not on my patch.
The wish for Ireland is that the New Prefect for the Congregation of Bishops sorts Ireland and the UK.
To be fair Archbishop Jude is a very prayerful man and not a careerist.

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The collar doesn’t make the man (or the woman as the case may be 🙂) To the extent that its a sign of availability to people then it makes sense but for a lot of priests it’s just a status symbol or these days a sign that they’re traditional. In Maynooth the majority of staff wear casual clothes with a handful donning the collar briefly for events or if their Bishop was around for the conference 🤣

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Anon at 6. 24pm

The 1st link you pasted on it was quite sickening re chichester vicar. Unbelievable re his comments. Whats happened to him now?

Thanks for the remaining links, very enlightening. Cis it keeps my blinkers open and open and finally WIDE OPEN re Anglican religion.

Forgive my ignorance, what I don’t understand that nichols kept hiring ex Anglican priests to Catholicism, is it a severe shortage of seminarians or what?

Funny enough, rcc in Ireland don’t hire or bring ex Anglican priests here to parishes except for African or philliphines priests.

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The Church of Ireland and the Church of England are in communion with each other but rather different. The CoI is more low church than CoE which means the CoE has more people who follow the Anglo-Catholic tradition. They are more likely to disapprove of the ordination of women and hence more likely to seek their Catholicity in Rome. Hence more in England than in Ireland. The diocese of London was traditionally a hotbed of extreme Anglo-Catholicism hence the high number in London.
As with all things Anglican this is a great simplification to answer the question.

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My father who was a very rigid and upstanding Catholic proclaimed on many an occasion that “that bloody Pope John destroyed the Church”

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My father who was a very rigid and upstanding Catholic proclaimed on many an occasion that “that bloody Pope John destroyed the Church”

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5.45pm anon.
LOLOL 🤣🤣🤣.
Boringly repetitive cos you preach same gospel every year in and out. So obviouslit says more about you.
Your rehashed sermons on Sunday from your memory and maynooth lectures. It’s such boringly repetitive that you would need a stiff drink. 😘
I found some sermons in rcc churches dead boring as I fell asleep. Had to be nudged by someone else elbow to wake me up cos interpreter was taking to wall instead of me 😅😅💯.
Its my experience that counts more instead of some arcane academic research that you were referring to.
Its not only rcc but other religions that needs to be held to account. But other religions such as Anglicans, Lutherans, coptic and any other religions even JW or Mormons, doesn’t operate their omerta nor their need for secrecy. Rcc traits is omerta, omerta, OMERTA plus monies from other people money.
Ever hear of two or three church gate collections in rcc,? That’s tells you more about their mindset.
JW is quite dangerous as I have came across them few times. They especially target deaf communities such as their address etc. It’s a sign of a cult.

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Glad you think it’s acceptable to bully a disabled person like that. Pat you need to remove this comment, it’s hate speech of a disability.

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No need for your sarcastic comment about DG’s hearing. As someone who has hearing problems at the moment and waiting to see a consultant face to face (God alone knows how long I will have to to wait during this pandemic), I find your remark about hearing offensive.
Wash your mouth out.
Some of DG’s comments I agree with, some I don’t. I certainly would not make a fool of anyone’s disability.
Garngad Lad

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All shades of opinion at 5.45pm
Yiur comments has the hallmark of sarcasm par excellence 😉👅👅👅😘

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Garngad lad,
Thank you and much appreciated re your comments.
Your hearing problem, is it from old age or?

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DG
I have had bad eyes and ears since childhood. Nothing terribly serious. But when I go stone deaf (now and again) I do get grumpy and and lose myself in the internet blogs. My way of communicating. The pandemic has caused great delays in seeing a consultant face to face. It is not the same consulting over the telephone as they do now. I have my cataracts out and I can see for miles with vibrant colours. I am looking across the Irish sea to Larne looking out for PB. Maybe I will see Maggie.
Don’t let the abusers get you down. Head up, stiff upper lip and don’t let them get you down. Ignore Maggie who obviously has serious problems. You are better than any of them. Keep posting (even when I disagree with you) but maybe not as often.
Garngad Lad

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Deaf Guy, I would both somewhat agree and somewhat disagree with what you wrote at 4:43 pm.
I believe in a married priesthood a la the Christian East (though its implementation would be extremely tricky in the Latin Church). However, child sex abuse proper is not a gay problem; still less is it created by a celibate priesthood; rather, it is a problem wherever you have male human beings, married or unmarried, gay or straight. Married straight Orthodox priests, Protestant ministers, Jewish rabbis (etc.) have and do sexually abuse young boys. Then, of course, with a married priesthood, you will have the extra problem of straight priests getting into trouble with adult female parishioners, as well!
However, I would agree with you that the RCC’s situation is quite different from other religious groups when it comes to sexual misconduct. Namely, it is run by a closeted gay elite, comprising a huge majority of its leadership on both universal and local levels (see “In the Closet of the Vatican” by Martel). Add to this the very strong, almost omnipresent RC phenomenon referred to as “la maladie catholique” (a very negative, shameful obsession about matters of the flesh), and — voila! — you have all the essential ingredients for the particularly pernicious epidemic of gay sexual misbehaviour well familiar to readers of this blog. All of the gay scandals on this blog, I believe, are reducible in one way or another to this dynamic.
Sadly, there is no easy solution to all of this. The problem is very deep and systemic. I am afraid that the RCC will have to get its nose broken many, many more times, by the media and secular authorities, before it is forced to tackle the situation in an honest and effective way.

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7.20pm anon
Very good post and also quite sensible post as well. It encapsulated the pressing problem to date.

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Nicholls thinks that some time in the Pioneer Association Ireland is just what Monty needs?

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By Post Author

I heard that too but not a parish near a public house. Elsie wants rid of him out of the way and in a rural setting

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5.45: You should bring to the ethics lecturer the poisonous comments of Magna Carta and his cohort of fellow haters…I’d be interested in knowing his opinion!!! But you won’t do that, will you?

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Esie can’t find a place to send Monty? Doesn’t sound very decisive for an expericened Arch!! Can we find a parish for Monty? Total shambles and Elsie is losing the plot as he nears to giving up the power. On this case alone he has created a rod for his own back and that rod is not Rod Strange.

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Deaf Guy: Can you HEAR us? The black ghostly, sinister shadow behind you is Magna Carta. He’s been trying to lead you into greater error and inspire you to imitate his hatred of priests. Receiving any compliment frim this foul thing is akin to a kiss from Satan!! Deaf Guy: beware of this beast.

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8.40

I was going to comment on this post, but the obvious abuse of DG makes it plain through whom Satan is really speaking.

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Pat you really shouldn’t allow comments like 8:40. You’re allowing a deaf person to be bullied on your blog and I think you should remove the comments doing that today.
It isn’t like you to facilitate cruelty like that.

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The auld collar Do ya remember making them out of old washing up liquid bottles. Suppose it could be done with some bleach bottles but that could be ironic. The origin was turning ones back on the world. The carefully crafted piece of plastic is now made in a factory. Its just part of a uniform like a police helmet. The person maketh the clothes.

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My goodness, Bp Pat, what a lot of comments, and it’s not even a proper scandal. Time we had one, though.

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Bishop Pat, do you think seminarians should wear the collar, or at least when house visiting or hospital visits and so forth? I believe times like these would be sensible, however some of the younger lads think the collar is a status thing — that’s not a good thing, I think.
Some Dioceses do, some don’t.
What are your views?
PS I believe women priests look ok in black shirt and collar — but not in a clowns jacket lol — black trousers or a sensible skirt would suffice, in my opinion.
If that ITV woman priest turned up to an ITU ward in that t technicolour coat, I’d personally say something to her. I would.

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Hi Pat!
I hear your concerns about the collar and ordained women wearing it. My husband had some negative experiences when he wore his, as have many male priests, as well as ministers, because of the sexual abuse by so many male clergy. Priests were tarnished with the same brush at times, and the collar did not help their ministry.
Regarding women, I’ve been ordained 24 years now, and have only had positive and healing experiences when wearing the collar. All of the women priests I know have been able to serve and often help pick up the broken pieces left from the abuse scandal–because they are women, and for many who were harmed, both victims and their families, lost to the Church that is a welcomed change and healing. I have had countless individuals, male and female affirm the need for women priests.
Those male priests who choose to condemn women priests can do more good by repairing the worst damage done to the Church since the Borgias than by focussing on ridiculing others serving Christ.

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