I have worked in ONE PARISH as a DEACON and SIX PARISHES as a curate.
In those places I have worked alongside 14 PRIESTS.
So, I think I can speak from EXPERIENCE.
In my first parish in Wales – LLANRUMNEY, the only day the PP and curate went out anywhere was on their day off. They stayed in their sitting rooms all day. The PP was a nice man and very good to me.
In my first parish as a priest, BRIDGEND, my PP, who was a total alcoholic, Irish hating bastardo, only came out for his meals and drank the rest of the time.
In my second parish in Wales, BRITON FERRY, my PP, who was also an alcoholic,was very nice until I displeased his live in “housekeeper” and they both left the parish suddenly as a result of admiratio. His replacement and housekeeper were very nice but I was moved away weeks after he took over.
In my third parish in Wales, WHITCHURCH the PP was an angry and aggressive Tipperary bastardo, and I refused to stay with him.
In 1978 I arrived in ST PETER’S CATHEDRAL BELFAST and lived with 5 other priests.
VINCENT MC KINLEY, was the administrator and was very friendly with me until the senior curate got jealous. He then changed and was brutal for my last 4 years there. He was totally focused on money and was addicted to gambling and perving on young women and girls. He was banned from our girls secondary school by the famous Sister Genevieve. He said a private Mass in Latin everyday except Sunday.
JOE MC GURNAGHAN,was the jealous senior curate. He spent all day every day, listening to classical music and only left the house on Thursdays, his day off. He was cynical and bullied me. Later in life, in Lourdes, he admitted this and said he regretted it.
JIMMY MC CABE was a very traditional and pious man, visited the homes of the elderly everyday. He and Vincent McKinley, in spite of having three meals together everyday, had not spoken for 14 years.
PETER DONNELLY was an everyday golfer and party goer. He was later charged with sexual abuse and aquitted.
SEAN CRUMMEY was a Salesian who visited certain old ladies everyday who plied him with whiskey and money.
KILKEEL where my PP was the dreaded Canon Walter Larkin, former president of St Malachy’s Belfast. All curates feared they would be sent to Walter.
Cahal Daly deliberately sent me to Walter.
This was our first conversation:
W = Walter
P = Pat
W. Well Buckley, what do you think of me.
P. Walter, I don’t know you but I have heard that you are nasty and difficult to work for.
W. Have you now? Well I’ve heard that your are very disobedient and rebellious!
W. Do you know that all the priests are waiting for me and you to go to war?
P. I didnt actually know that but I fear it could be possible.
W. Right then (says Walter holding out his hand) lets fool them and be friends.
And friends we were. He sent for me on his death bed..
He spent the latter part of his life thinking he would go to hell 😢
DENIS NEWBERRY was my fellow curate in Kilkeel. He was grossly obese but friendly. Very soon he was transferred to be chaplain in a Belfast hospital. He died very young.
GEORGE MC CLAFFFERTY was Denis’ replacement in Kilkeel. When I met George, he had one foot firmly in nuerosis and the other dangling in psychosis. He was very mean with money and had the ability to be a bully if you allowed him. He immediately fell in love with the youngest nun in the local convent. He had a dog called Cora with home he shared his medication – diazepam. He was a good house visitor. He ended up sadly, with the two feet in psychosis.
PADDY MC VEIGH
My PP in Larne. Former rebel himself. Nice man. No hassle. The day Daly sacked ne Paddy came to my door and said: “I wish I had your balls”.
GERRY MC ALEER – fellow curate in Larne. Religious order priests – Marist I think. Aggressive and sadistic. Liked to ask very young children about sex in the confessional. Slapped the hands of anyone looking Communion on the hand. Finally banished to Rathlin Island.
SEAN ROGAN – one of the worst priests I ever worked with. Company man. Sneaky. Tale carrier. Sent in by Daly to watch me in my last year.
A story. An old lady was dying in Larne hospital. Family rang Rogan for Last Rites. He said he couldnt cone because he was having lunch with friends. The family panicked and rang me. I went immediately and anointed the dying woman and gave her Communion. Someone told Rogan I was there. He burst into the room and said loudly: “Don’t worry folks. You have a real priest here now”.
Rogan proceeded to put his finger in the dying woman’s mouth, removed the host I had placed there, which was dripping in saliva and swallowed it himself and then gave her a new host. He said some prayers and said goodbye in a high putched voice.
I stood silently in the window and said nothing. The woman’s daughters burst into tears and apologised to me.
That’s a potted history of my experiences of working with RC priests.
Everything I have said is 100% truthful.
Of course there will be the usual clerical comments today accusing me of pretending to be perfect and all other priests bad. Of course I do not claim that and never have.
In fact all my “warts” are on Google 🙃
I am simply telling the very unwelcome truth.
If (Eton College version)
By Brian Bilston
If you can keep your job when all around you
Lies ravaged from what it is you’ve done;
If intellect and common sense confound you
And if integrity you have but none;
If you can lie and not be tired by lying,
And pretend you act for the public good,
But then leave the people to their dying
And say you did, sadly, all you could:
If you can dream – of nothing more than power;
If you can think – but only of yourself;
If you believe this country’s finest hour
Is when the chosen few can gain more wealth;
If you can flout the law with bluff and bluster
And not care whether you are believed,
Or deny with scorn every single blunder
And not care how many you may deceive:
If you can stir up hatred, fear and violence
To create division to suit your ends;
And answer cries for help with silence,
And then laugh about it with your friends:
If you can stretch this country to its limit
Or until it is you’ve had your fun,
Yours is this land and everything that’s in it,
And—as you wished—you’ll be PM, my son
121 replies on “THE PRIESTS I’VE LIVED WITH.”
This won’t sound it but is a genuine question – would things have been different for any of those priests if they hadn’t been celibate? Some priests of that generation I thought would have been more human with a woman around. Even feeling looked after might have helped.
Your question seems genuine if presumptive of a heteronormative prism.
The more troubled clergy could well have been struggling with celibacy but homosexual repression is as damaging as heterosexual.
Some of these clergy were very likely frustrated homosexuals and the last thing they would have wanted was a woman around..
I presume by ‘a woman around’ you mean a deep and meaningful relationship with a member of the opposite sex as opposed to just having a woman around.
Striking how many of these clergy locked themselves away Iin their sitting rooms only venturing out on their days off – a study of deeply and tragically unhappy men, sacrificed (of their own choosing) on the altar of celibacy.
By the way there could be no guarantee that having a good woman or man for that matter around would solve any of their deep seated and antisocial behaviour.
I deliberately assumed a heteronormative prism to make the question about celibacy and avoid sexual orientation if possible. You have made me realize that I was also thinking that men of previous generations would have been less able to be comfortable with a gay orientation.
I like what strikes you, of the priests retiring to their rooms. It was as if they were going through the motions – and what diocesan priest only celrbrates a private mass!
In St Peters, at the time the administrator only said Mass in public on a Sunday. Fr Crummey was not a curate. He was a READER. In other words, he “read” the administrators daily Mass.
Oh I can see the mindset now. The kind of Purgatorian Society mindset.
Presumably doing that in public in the seventies would have got him reprimanded.
You presume lots @ 6.48am and make sweeping statements about people you never knew.
I find that absolutely bizarre. Did Fr Crummy say another mass as his own as well? And did the administrator take a stipend for both his private mass and the one Fr Crummey said for him?
No Crummey only said one Mass. The adm said Mass for the dead in black vestments everyday for a stipend
Some of the housekeepers were the problem. I remember being told by the PP that the kitchen was off limits. You would have had to pass through her sitting room to access it. She was a dirty cow and her culinary skills peaked at fatty mince beef stew with bread and butter. He said I could keep a kettle in my room for tea outside of meal times…
It can be amusing and bemusing to think over the characters one meets in life. In a much shorter experience of the church than you +Pat I’ve encountered a handful of Saints as well as a fair few eccentrics. It makes me laugh and grimace in equal measure. Truth is though I’ve probably had the same effect on those who have encountered me. 😅
The trouble is that the characters you describe are stereotypical of Irish priests. Damaged by the restrictions of formation and clerical life, living shattered dreams, unable to have enough space to be themselves and too afraid to step away from the familiar… clerical life is akin to domestic abuse at times.
Pray for those who hurt you. Your journey has been painful, but it set you free and you have ministered to those on the margins. God ‘s plans such as a process but succeed as a result.
But Patsy: when priests like you are moved so often, there’s usually two sides to most stories. We’ve only heard your side. Would be interesting to know what the priests you worked with thought about you! Impossible now as most of them are dead. In 46 years I have worked wuth many, many priests and can honestly say that I fell out with just three of them. But before we were moved on to new parishes, we reconciled. Silly things got in the way: jealousy, dogs, work duties, misunderstandings, pride, unforgiveness, bullying. Nothing too serious but we were not enemies for life. I encountered some wonderful P.P’s and fellow colleagues who taught me much, pastiralky, spiritually and in priestly ministry.: I also worked with some who had personal issues. If all the guys I worked with (about 35) were still alive, I think we would all be very much kinder, understanding and forgiving. In situations of conflicts – about three, I had to examine my own conscience and attitude too. We are as priests a very mixed lot and subject to the normal vagaries, frailties and failings of our humanity. I’m always intrigued by Pat’s recollections: how is it that almost all other people are either bastardos, mad alcoholics, lazy, swindlers, useless and bullies!! I tell the truth abiut the men I wirked with and I would gladly work with all of them again. I belueve if you have kindness, patience and respect in your geart, good relationships are possible. I Continue to pray for all the men I worked with: some have died, some still living. I can appreciate your struggles as a priest but my God, you seem to have stumbled on hells angels everywhete you went. Pat, my recollections, thank God are much more life giving, memorable and inspiring. The say Hi have looked at my role now as Administrator us: to meet with, sit down with, share meals, communicate every day with your colleagues. Be honest: listen to each other and acknowledge contributions..Most importantly, a place must be given to our lay gifted faithful to work together with clerics. This in fact very often keeps us focused. Also, an equal sharing of duties is essential. I wonder if you had a role as P. P. as Moderator or as Administrator, would your attitude have been different? You are a good worker , very committed and serve the disaffected but can you not embrace good, amenable priests too? Working alone in ministry is a disaster and can create barriers and a great loneliness. But, thank God, I am still standing despite the wounds, hurts, disappointments and conflicts shared in all these 46 years. I hooe Pat you can forgive and offer forgiveness…and ask for forgiveness of those men you speak so unkindly of. Aren’t we better human beings and priests when we bring Jesus into the equation.
Translated into English: ‘I’m a saint, it was your own doing. And bullying is nothing much’.
You’re a bully yourself, it comes across very clearly in this comment.
Dear 9.24, would you say you have over-reacted to that poster? I read his comment and came to the opposite conclusion to you.
If you are being bullied, stand up to the bully in as calm a manner as possible.
9.24: I’m at a loss as to how you can conclude that I am a bully having read my comment at 12.11: Never was and never will be a bully..But I certainly know a bully when I see them. Have you difficulty in deciphering the meaning of texts?
No, no problem at all. Incidentally no bully is ever open to the possibility of them being a bully. If you weren’t one you would be more able to take feedback.
11.31: You have entered the realm of the utterly ridiculous and sheer nonsense. Tell me how you arrived at your bizarre conclusion. Ate you (really) intelligent?
11.36: De Integro: a very balanced insight. I too would say that i had to hold back my own dedire for wanting things my way, being something of a perfectionist. A team work approach worked best and we were accountable at weekly meetings where we also shared difficulties. By the end of the night a few sandwiches and a large g & t resolved our differences. I have never.met the dark guys pat speaks if. But then, has Pat been honest about his personality and strangeness?
@11:36. I think +Pat is sharing his perspective and that those others mentioned have probably had their say about him at some stage. There is no such thing as an unbiased recounting of history. Returning to my own experience I know people focus on the bits that suit them, at least sometimes, when it comes to remarking about me.
Try living with an angry monk in a monastery. Let’s face it, my drink of choice (Whiskey) doesn’t make anything better. Maybe it’s the getting up at 4.30am for Vigil. But I must pray for the fallen even if I have a terrible hangover. It is no wonder I get so angry! So very angry.
Bishop Pats experience sheds a different light on Paul VI’s notion of the church being ‘an expert in humanity’ seems clear that experts i humanity they were not.
9.25am You should never be allowed near peoole also with those anger issues you clearly have.
Neither should you with your lack of respect or any understanding of social norms or other people’s feelings.
You’re a priest, aren’t you.
No sadly not so I’m sorry to burst your bubble.
You clearly have a vocation.
What ‘anger issues’? I sensed no anger in the post at 9.25.
All in all, it was a good, insightful analysis. And well stated.
Perhaps it was a truth that cut too close to the bone for you, ‘Father’.
I can count on one hand – which I guess has some merit, clergy who I would think half decent human beings.
I always expect to be disappointed and they rarely let me down.
Power and control freaks.
Angry (why are so many angry?)
Hungry to be centre of attention
Needing lots of praise
Contemptuous of lay people
I could go on and name them but everybody knows they are like this and unlike Pat most of us just bitch about them behind their backs.
The problem is their egos are massaged by the notion that they are ontologicaly changed whereas the truth is they are total shits who get off on being total shits.
Welcome to the Roman Catholic Priesthood in the 21st Century.
I think they are angry because they gave themselves to their great vocation. However a bit of them can see the many problems in the church and priesthood which come up here all the time, and can see that they are at the service of something other than God. However because they have thought themselves into this great vocation mindset it would involve too great a mental wrench to think themselves out of it. They know they would be ghosted by all their friends if they did, and they can’t talk to any remaining lay friends about this. Many simply can’t leave.
It is in a way the ultimate betrayal for them, but they can’t admit it. Hence the rage they pour out. Look at the way they talk to Magna Carta here and try to taunt him with being a spoiled priest. They’re jealous because they would love to leave and deal with their own humanity.
Yes, MMM. It’s the ultimate scam – manoeuvre a man into believing he must do something because it is the will of God. Well nigh impossible to get out of if you believe in God and then if that belief wobbles…
There’s another group as well, who never believed in God, don’t think anyone else does, have no conscience and think everyone is pretending. They sail through seminary because they think it’s a game of saying the right thing. Ironically these are the ones best placed to leave and often do very well for themselves in life because of saying the right thing.
Good comment@ 8.34. And I’d add, that after a few years post ordination, a reality sinks firmly in, one that many had considered possible, that the whole of priesthood, the RCC, and even the whole concept of God, is, ……….!
When the tide of reality turns, the gentle sands of the shore become insurmountable cliffs.
8.34: But – Magna hasn’t dealt with his own humanity. Ever. That’s why he is treated with disdain on this blog. He has lost all self respect and dignity, makes a fool of himself frequently, demeans others with ugly venom and has zero tolerance for others. He is the one who mocks, taunts and jeers others. His humanity, Indeed, is almost irreversibly broken. He ain’t a shining example of humanity in its glory..
Being a spoiled priest is the least objectionable aspect of CartA.
Far more disgusting is his alcohol-induced hate speech.
You’re being ironic, aren’t you?
Expressing those profound feelings for me just wasn’t possible in any other way.
I understand. 😀
11:08 to quote what the unholy priests say to Pat so often – look at yourself instead of everyone else.
No; point of truth, my hatred for romanist priesthood, and it’s Christ-betraying clergy, was never induced by alcohol, even when I was drinking. Nothing so pedestrian as that, I’m afraid.
No; my hatred is down to the morally scummy behaviour of romanist priests themselves, psychological misfits and spiritual shysters. Like you.
This is the sole source of my inspiration. And what a lot you all provided! And selflessly continue to provide. On one level, I should be grateful for such… 🤔 Look! Let’s face it, if we stand ‘generosity’ on its semantic head for one moment, we can truly count you all as supremely self-giving.
Let’s face it again, it’s the only means by which any of you losers is going to receive such a magnanimous compliment. 🙄
Wrong! I’m not a priest.
Who cares about the deep-seated origins of your attitudes towards clergy.
It’s not all about you. Grow up.
Clergy have a go to position because squaring up to reality is too difficult – the position is: ah we’re not so bad, a few bad apples, I’ve met some great fellas etc etc etc blah blah. They do the same with clerical child abuse: ah it’s not so bad, a few bad apples.
What they fail to see is the pattern – Bishop Pat is calling out the pattern, he doesn’t say he didn’t encounter good priests as you suggest – on the contrary he does just that and as a knee jerk reaction you want him to examine himself without seeing that he has – he’s calling out the pattern which is primarily dysfunctional, chaotic, severely impaired psycho-emotionally and psycho-sexually who shouldn’t be let near other people let alone ordained.
Nonsense. Your disgraceful stereotyping needs to be called out.
You think it’s a simple move from tolerating mediocrity to condoning the sexual abuse of children.
A clear case of projection, I’d guess.
You sound touchy, angry and aggressive; very self-defensive, too. Has a tender nerve been struck?
You’re obviously a romanist priest who doesn’t like being called out himself with the truth about his so-called ‘profession’.
And yes, I can see a consequential link between tolerating mediocrity, especially in one’s priestly self, and the condoning of child-sexual abuse. The morally mediocre, like you, tend to have have low self-expectations and so tend to be particularly self-exusing, actually to the point of habit. This then extends to others quite naturally, including abusers. It often takes the form (not a personal sterotype, but the truth) : ‘We all make mistakes. We’ re all sinners’.
As you are a romanist priest, I’d expect nothing higher of you, and I shouldn’t be disappointed for doing so. Erm, the nature of your comment is a proofed pudding.
10:41 That’s because it is a short step from tolerating mediocrity, combined with the pretend spirituality of not criticising others, combined with a poisonous idea of obedience to authority, and there you are at the abuse crisis.
An organization where
– mediocrity is not protected
– whistle blowers are encouraged
– a culture of doing what is right rather than obedience
…. will not have an abuse crisis.
Thank you for the frank demonstration that you have learned literally nothing from the crisis.
Wrong again! I’m not a priest.
First principles defective.
11.26: Ah…got your juices of hatred flowing again! Haven’t we, Marge? Your comment at 11. 07 is testament to your crazed obsession with yourself. The repeated old cliches, the overflow with invective, the repetitive insults and scratched record caca are indicative of a lunatic on the edge of personal disintegration and disaster. Keep going, sonny: you’ll get to the cliff edge real soon!!
Actually, I thought amusing my comment at 11.26, not hating. Perhaps you confused words here.
I do try so hard to make people smile of a morning, but romanist priests, like you, are a challenging work in progress.
Thank you for your concern about my mental health. I feel assured that if I ever unwittingly come to that cliff edge you mentioned, you’ll fraternally pull me right back. Bless.
We can always count on romanist priests to do the Jesus-y thing. 🙏
The comment at 11:37 sounds very much like a priest hoping Magna Carta will kill himself. Disgusting.
Ah bless ya Father – bit of a leap and assumption/ sorry to disappoint you no anger issues here, happy as Larry and around people all day long!! Sweet.
Pat, there are some good comments so far today. Your own experiences are interesting. Many of us can identify with some of them but I cannot recall ever encountering the intensity of your “priests experiences”. We are a very mixed lot, and you are no different. Is there ever a time when you ask yourself: What did I do to cause upset, hurt or division? Or was i an obstinate person too? We are all different and we bring our strength, weaknesses, vulnerabilities and awkwardnesses into our daily lives but hopefully not in a destructive way. Whenever this blog seeks to debate serious priestly issues I am saddened that Magna and MMM and a small few others seem only capable of offering a sneering delight that some priests actually fall apart, leave or end up very broken. They rarely see any merit in a man’s initial choice for priesthood and judge those of us who remain as frauds. We’ve read their contemptuous commentary all too often. Despite our craziness at times I thank God for the very human, kind and caring priests I have worked with and for the inspiration they gave.
It goes without saying that I played a part in the bad relationships.
But in St Peters 1978 – 1983 it was work that caused resentment and anger:
Working with joyriders – taking the cars off them and returning them to the police.
Founding a residents association.
Organising an area clean up and festival.
The sedentary clergy I was livibg with found this work upsetting etc.
But I had to do it – responding to parishioners needs.
I could have total peace if I did NOTHING 😪
Yes, I could indeed, in the distant past, see some merit in a man’s choice for priesthood, initially, and provided he acted from the grossest ignorance about the nature of that deeply corrupted institution. But there was no such tendency, even in that distant past, once he freely and knowingly promised obedience not to Christ, but to a church ‘corrupt… You know the rest.
That man was then very well aware of what it was he would serve. And it wasn’t Christ.
Today, there is no such tendency for him. With the now globally known historical back-up of moral sludge this institution keeps providing, he knows, from the get-go, exactly what it is he will serve. Again, it isn’t Christ.
1.01: Maggie, your jealous rage is all faux. You seek attention. By repeating the same invective you give yourself a falde sense of relevance andcsugnifucance. Haters have no significance or a place in civil society. They are dangerous people. Go out and enjoy yourself in the sun…with your shadow. It’s the nearest to another human being you’ll get!!!
Very good point, Magna. There is no reason not to know nowadays. The behaviour of the RC church combined with the internet may well be its undoing. As recently as the Boston Globe revelations there wasn’t such potential for the truth to be known internationally.
‘andcsugnifucance’?🤔 (Fifth line of your comment.)
You’re either drunkenly slurring your words, or breaking in new dentures. 😀
Anon@11:29: While you call it “sneering delight” I call it ‘presenting reality ‘ according to my perceptions, and as attested to by many comments subsequent to yours today.
The clerical fraternity really don’t like being held to account.
2.22pm: MMM – I don’t have any difficulty in being held to account. Indeed, I have commended your fairness and balance in some debates. Being held to account and sneering with delight at the failings and downfall of others are very different realities. I welcome rational discussion but it seems you pop up here every now and then to offer your contemptuous, “sneering delight” analysis by which all of us are defined as irrelevant, morally and spiritually blind and fools. It’s as if you are saying, pity the poor bastards but It’s what they deserve!! Not very virtuous from a humanistic or atheistic perspective. Your wirds very often flatten us completely.
‘pity the poor bastards but It’s what they deserve!!’
At last it’s beginning to sink in. As a representative of a worldwide criminal cabal I don’t know how you expect to be treated.
Well now @ 3:38, surely you’ve been often enough proven to be blind fools and certainly irrelevant. That’s why your clique is regarded with such contempt
Mother of God the holy priests are full of rage today and out before their leisurely lunches to prove Magna Carta right in his analysis of them.
I miss Hughie Connolly’s Bin Masses 🙏😊
Your confusing stereotyping with a pattern – a clear pattern emerges with the clerical caste – the pattern is also identifiable as clericalism – the clerical mindset is toxic and noxious (it’s actually pretty obnoxious too).
One of its qualities is to stubbornly resist change and renewal because it is powerless to change because it’s not change or renewal it needs but dismantling and demolition.
Hey all the qualities I listed are applicable to that other clerical caste of old – the Pharisees.
Actually I do think the clerical caste predisposes you to be harsh towards everyone except yourself and a tolerance of moral and ethical mediocrity is intrinsic to the scandal of clerical child abuse and cover up.
Clerics are always mitigating the scandal of clerical child abuse.
Elsies first interview on Sky TV invited the viewers to consider the courage it took for a paedophile priest to hand himself in – rightly he took a drubbing for such blatant clerical nonsense.
Wow + Pat – your experiences sum up what the generality of the Catholic priesthood is like. The exceptions are those who are balanced, kind and good. The majority are nasty, twisted, angry, addicted, lazy and dysfunctional men. I have no doubt that one of the root causes of this will have been self-loathing and deep dissatisfaction with the priestly life that they had committed themselves to, especially that strange, isolated, life of the celibate. And, so they expressed themselves in the way that you have described, and caused all sorts of damage to themselves and to those around them. It’s so obvious to so many of us that this is the case with a huge number of clergy, and I do wonder why the Church does not address this ? Surely, the Pope, bishops, priests themselves, see and understand that there is a problem. It is not rocket science. You just need to look at priests and you see it. So, why do they allow this to continue ? Why do they not get to the root cause of these problems ? Selection, training, the life priests are expected to lead are all contributing to this problem of dysfunctional and damaged clergy. So WTF does someone not say something about it and do something about it ?
Because they are all in the same position, all committed to the same mythology, all as bitter and twisted. If anyone were to stand up and try to do anything about it he would be out on his ear simply because the others are so bitter and twisted.
There is a thing called crab mentality – if you have a bucket of crabs which will die if they remain there, the others actively stop the ones at the top leaving. So instead of some possibly surviving they all die.
Cruelty and the mythology of sacrifice, combined with a martyr complex, are second nature to clergy.
Didn’t know that about crabs.
Great analogy, by the way.
Very well said.
Asking them to do something about it is like asking them to admit the madness of it all.
They won’t kill the goose who lays the golden eggs.
The sly hypocrites of course lead sexual lives that would make the ancient Greeks blush.
The decent ones like Pat call it out and find joy in life being true to themselves.
The sick child abusers generally get away with it, assisted by their disgusting, cowardly fellow padres who play dumb.
The alcos who suppress their humanity and sexuality are more to be pitied than anything else.
The angry snob who lives on this blog denigrating Magna and others is another type best completely avoided.
Meanwhile the red and pink hat brigade are living it up in Rome and elsewhere with multiple sexual partner’s laughing at Paddy back on the green island who has to grin and bear it and cry into his whiskey.
The predominant problem today is the homosexualisation of the priesthood- it’s a gay club and clique – seminaries turn them out all day long – the cruel gays run the show but it won’t last forever but it has done irreparable damage – and repressed gays are nasty, cruel, bitter and addicted to power, gossip and control.
A measure of this will be evidenced by the warm, friendly and open reception of this post.
The main, indeed the only, problem is the existence of priesthood itself, not its homosexualistion. This is only a recent chapter in the entire, morally squalid chronicle of priesthood.
The priesthood isn’t corrupted by homosexuality; priesthood itself is a corruption of Christ’s express instruction to the early church.
Priesthood will corrupt anything and everything associated with it, from homosexuality to heterosexuality,and from person to person.
An easy competition today. Spot the Seminary rejects and the religious community rejects. I promise it wont take you long. The venom soon spews out.
You’ll look in any direction but the right one. You’ll believe any drivel, spout any nonsense, to avoid facing the uncomfortable facts about your church and your priesthood.
And so the band played on its cacophony of untruths and self-cowardice.
1.39: Margaret, you are an expert in directing people to a supposed “right firectiin”. Any chance you might find directions to your geart and conscience and listen…You might agree if you hear “stop your hate speech: stop being foolishly contentious: stop your ugly invective”. We know you have personal challenges but this journey to your heart and conscience may deliver from misery.
Goodness your priesthood or vows have brought you great joy, peace, love of others and the fruit of the Spirit.
Who would be a priest these days? Imagine having to deal with this?https://extra.ie/2021/07/20/news/irish-news/dean-maguire-funeral-priest
If they can refuse Biden communion they can refuse a career criminal a funeral. But they didn’t. I wonder how much Fr’s hand was greased with.
3.20: Such cynicism! All undertakers in the Dublin Diocese follow the agreed financial arrangements. Nothing goes personally into any greasy hand but to a central system out of which each celebrant receives the stated and agreed fee on a monthly basis. If a family is unable to do so, parishes waive the stipend. In the circumstances of these funerals, the priests who officiated are to be commended for their professional sensitivity and duty of care. Believe me, having presided at similar situations, the challenge is very difficult. It’s a discussion that needs honest reflection not the lying, cheap cynicism offered by you.
I do not think the Father’s hand was greased that well as he celebrated the three funerals. Sadly it must have been horrendous for the priest.
There were no control and no stewards.
It was horrendous and was streamed live.
The other two families did not live stream their funerals.
But the Priest is one of Irelands Best and was horrendous he was under so much pressure.
You cannot compare refusing some one the Eucharist to a funeral get a grip so I will make it easy for you at Funerals people are for of emotion and grief at the most difficult part of their life.
This funeral was like a big ” superstar” celebration and there would be no way the priest knowing how it would turn out but it was awful and sadly all the deceased had to be identified by DNA as the car went up in flames.
You never ban a drunk in a pub at the time as he / she would wreak the pub you wait till they are sober.
Everyone is entitled to a Christian Burial.
And you believe that readers are going to take the word of a romanist priest on this, ‘Father’?
Oddly then, your church once refused such burial to the unbaptised, adults AND children.
2.55: I have faced similar scenes at funerals. They are very disturbing, unsettling and cause much anxiety. Finding a sensitive balance is difficult. At one such funeral, when I expressed a concern I was verbally abused and threatened. Cannot say much as it is under Garda investigation…A horrendous experience. We try to treat grieving families with the utmost care and respect but…..
The same Priest said the Masses for all one in St. Mary’s and other two in Jobstown.
It was horrendous for the Priest.
Funerals do not make money for the RCC most are Free and remember the costs during covid and the sanitisation and the pew cleaning and so on.
It certainly was the experience of a lifetime the funeral and just glad the priest is alright.
Clergy costs are administered by the Funeral Directors and paid into Parish Accounts not the Clergy.
Show compassion and Pray for the Repose of Souls the three guys and their families.
Fair point – I can see that the very nature of the priesthood is corrupting – in that sense clerical child abuse, cover up and homosexualisation are symptoms of this corruption not it’s root cause.
Bishop Pat, what’s going on with the Silverstream Priory situation? Will we receive any more updates on it?
We need something to cheer us up.
2.55: I have faced similar scenes at funerals. They are very disturbing, unsettling and cause much anxiety. Finding a sensitive balance is difficult. At one such funeral, when I expressed a concern I was verbally abused and threatened. Cannot say much as it is under Garda investigation…A horrendous experience. We try to treat grieving families with the utmost care and respect but…..
The reason funerals get hijacked is because the clergy are scared shitless of doing anything except go along with it and then bitch and complain later.
They haven’t the balls or the kudos or presence to conduct a service like this without the Master of Cermemonis being the thug or thugs who tell ‘Fader’ how it’s going to be and if he doesn’t like it he”ll get a slap or two.
Farrell is shit scared, the priest who conducted the funeral was cacking his pants – it’s hilarious all that, it’s difficult and challenging, no it’s isn’t – negotiate beforehand, lay down the terms, grow some balls and learn from the IRA there funerals were conducted with great reverence and respect. Whereas these criminal gangs show no respect and get what they want through intimidation and fear. And the clergy are quaking in their boots, yes Sir, No Sir, three bags full Sir.
The criminal gangs know your a push over with no backbone or desire (unlike them) to suffer for their cause.
Your should grow some Humanity as you have NONE.
It fine all prepared but nothing goes to plan, readers take cold feet, emotion s (sorry forgot your are heartless) at losing a love one and I have seen the hardest of men weep so you have not got a clue.
Weddings can be all type scripted then the normal Bride arrives late.
I would like to think the Holy Spirit Guides the Church and not your master of Ceremonies.
Maybe the priest yesterday was terrified of parents with their 1 day old Child in a little white coffin and not on a trolley or table but sitting on her daddies knee but I do not think for one second the Priest was frighted he was being compassionate.
3.47: You sound like the kind of thug we wouldn’t t want near a church funeral. You gombeen of a bully. Wonder what your idol Pat would do in these difficult situations? You are a brute. Are you a big fat roundy bouncer at a sleazy night club?
5.41, so you’ve visited that nightclub?
Or was it a sauna?
Hear! Hear! A vulgar thug is right. Well said.
I think Pat would have the emotional intelligence to de-escalate the situation and would have firm boundaries about what happens in church. You are merely admitting that priests have no people skills – these kind of difficult situations are found in other walks of life directly facing the public. The problem arises when a prissy princess has to face real life instead of talking about lace.
Fr. David Marsden is inconsolable Pat. 😭
She loves to reference the Muto Proprio banning the gays from the priesthood but she does not accept the Muto Proprio banning the Latin Mass.
It seems she only accepts what agrees with her… hypocrisy at it’s finest!
If people do not accept Papal teaching….THEY SHOULD LEAVE!
Does that papal teaching include Humanae Vitae?
I was right, 4.54pm never goes to Mass.
Humanae vitae fell at the first fence: its reception by the People of God.
“People of God” is such an awful expression. God does not have favourites or special groups.
“Blessed is the nation whose God is the LORD,
The people He has chosen as His own.”
Where is Seamus vii? Has he disappeared from it or taking a break?
Some posters here taking pots shots at Magna Carta. He’s only human like yourself with all its flaws and warts. I’m only human same as anybody else, lived by institutional experience and using that experience to inform others re rcc ways and means.
I’m starting to see priests signing on a document swearing their obedience to their Bishop or superior. So any priest will be on bishop side as they won’t be supporting us as laity if it came to a crunch or a ugly row. That in turn laity would lose their trust in priests.
I haven’t seen pp or a curate in my parish for years cos I was away a lot. Last time, it was locals who asked me about Lomansey and my brother. I told them they have same info as I have. I realised it was more than alcohol addiction that he had as more info came out of this blog recently.
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DG 5:03, I doubt my presence yesterday would have stopped the attacks on Magna! I only ever corrected him when he was wrong. He didn’t talk to me for days after one correction! 😆
You can’t help yourself can you – a poster expresses an opinion about funeral stipends and your best shot back is a little sermonette on the financial probity of the funeral industry mixed in with that keyboard warrior abuse.
I think you’ll find that the funeral stipend business is rife with abuse, backhanders and greasy palms – your post heavily laden with you protest to much is the give away.
5.04: You need to get your facts right. Your comment is ignorant and mischievous. If you have information about corruption re: funeral stipends, go to the police. Do that if you have a just case. All money received by the Church is discussed with and agreed by family. As I said stipends are waived if families are in financial difficulty. All stipends paid are traceable – and must be – under new Charities Regulations. ( Read the Charities Act ).All money given is now traceable, so don’t perpetuate or make up a lie. Ask Revenue. Undertakers are obliged to discuss all financial outlay for funerals. Families are consulted. If you believe there is corruption, go to the Gardai. I can only speak for the Dublin Diocese. Also, families are entitled to receive a receipt from the Church which we do, so that families know the amount guven in fees. Truth matters but not to you, obviously. So, chase the undertakers you feel are corrupt. And then, have the moral courage to go to the Gardai.
You have as little to contribute anonymously as you do when you use a pseudonym.
You can’t move for spoiled priests on the blog today, Pat!
Maybe the so called spoiled ones were good ones?
Pat, you will have to tell us sometime about the priests that you knew in Dublin and Waterford while you were in Seminary, both those in the seminaries and in Parishes that you knew. I know you have spoken of your admiration of John Shine while you were in Waterford. Has you view changed about him in line with stories that have come out about him in recent years, covering up for his nephew who was charged in recent years with child abuse.
Not sure you get the idea of protesting too much – which you do with worrying, if not revealing intensity, mixed in with dictatorial instructions for me to report my suspicions to the relevant authorities.
Bottom line – regardless of regulation, palms are greased – that’s not cynicism that’s human nature.
despite the regulation you insist is in place –
Completely agree with 5.35. Go to the Garda if you have relevant information. Otherwise, remain silent. And like the poster at 5.35 I use imperatives as a grammatical tool. If you consider them dictatorial, the problem is yours.
8.21: Thank you. So correct. That poster at 6.28 is lying. He doesn’t have val7datiin if his allegations. If he is so sure if malpractices and corruption, let him find the courage to do the right thing: go to the Gardai. But he’s just spouting a popular lie on this blog about stipends, of which I suspect he knows nothing, unless of course he’s an undertaker, (a dishonest one!)..
Get it here.
6.28: Palms may be greased but it has to be very sophisticated. Even before the Charities Act required traceability of all declared income, I used to write a personal note of gratitude go families for the stipend given through the undertakers. On one or two occasions the families told me they had agreed to more than I received. Guess the iutcome!! In Dublin Diocese, all undertakers only pay by cheque at end of the month: all is recorded and traceable. All priests income from stipends has then to correspond with Diocesan finance system. It is rare for us in Dublin Diocese to receive cash as in the past. I am merely correcting your misinformation. You are just being cynical and want to create a lie. Truth matters, sir: to me anyway.
The key word here is ‘declared’ income and nobody, literally nobody, will believe that undeclared income doesn’t happen. I haven’t yet met a tradesman who wouldn’t accept cash, and they’re more moral than the priests.
My view – which I’m sure you appreciate I’m entitled to have is that criminal gangs intimidate the clergy who do their bidding in the liturgical context of a funeral Mass – this seems self evident and in doing so the solemnity and sacredness is undermined out of fear whereas if they grew some balls, stood up to them and stood firm – guess what the criminal fraternity would be impressed and maybe give them less of a slap. All they need to do is grow some.
9.50: Believe what you like. I know my morals and truths.
It just occurred to me, Pat, that when ‘Father’ Sean Rogan burst into that hospital room with a dying elderly lady and proclaimed himself a ‘real priest’ (implying that you were not), he then went on to contradict that implication by forcibly removing the consecrated host from the poor lady’s mouth before consuming it himself, dripping with her saliva.
Why consume it if it wasn’t consecrated by a ‘real priest’?
The priests are not known for their intelligence. Nor manners – how embarrassing for the poor family.
I’m still laughing that they think calling people spoiled priests and telling them they never go to mass, are insults.
They’re really raging today.
9.37: You certainly are not the brightest spark of intelligence with this rubbishy comment.
Saying people don’t go to Mass is not intended as an insult. It merely reflects bemusement that people who don’t go to Mass sit around all day on a blog talking about churchy things.
Case in point at 9:59.
I love it when the priests get so wound up about funerals. It’s nearly as good as when they moan that an allegation of abuse could be made against them.
You Keep It All In – The Beautiful South
Didn’t Canon Sheehan write a novel on the spoiled priest from Maynooth. Painted him as a decent guy
This is the term used in some parts of the country to express the failure of a student who has just put his foot within the precincts of the sanctuary, and been rejected. Up to quite a recent period such an ill-fated youth was regarded by the peasantry with a certain amount of scorn, not unmingled with superstition. Happily, larger ideas are being developed even on this subject ; and not many now believe that no good fortune can ever be the lot of him who has made the gravest initial mistake of his life… Canon Sheehan
Me too, funeral stipends gets them v agitated and hot under the collar with a little lecture chucked in for good measure.
Nah they are definitely on the make – as Del Boy would say, ‘cushty.’
On the topic of yesterday, I thought the good priests outnumbered the bad priests on a rugby score of 15-9!
Peace be with you DG 5:03! I watched the film Yesterday recently and now I’m living in yesterday’s world!https://youtu.be/jo505ZyaCbA
The Beatles – Yesterday
Like any of the Birmingham Six, I am an innocent man who has been wronged.
Is mise le meas,