The main problem with the Latin Mass Brigade is that they have and are using the Latin Mass as a rallying point for all kinds of dissent.
You have Mother Burke going around posing almost as an antipope and as a focus of dissent.
Also, Cardinal Zen and the Hong Kong bishops are resisting scrapping the Latin Mass.
You have all these new societies of priests and latin rite monasteries springing up.
Many, if not most of these people and groups are anti Vatican II and anti Pope Francis.
There are, in practice, a church within a church.
Pope Benedict did the church harm when he brought in rules and regulations allowing individual priests to set up a Latin Mass wherever and whenever.
Many bishops have ignored Pope Francis’ recent document greatly limiting the Latin Mass.
Francis is going to have to be tougher and more firm.
1. He will have to affirm that the vernacular Mass of Vatican II is the official, always to be celebrated, Mass of the church.
2. He will need to instruct that only the Vatican, and not local bishops, can give permission for the celebration of the Latin Mass.
3. Ideally he should remove Burke from the college of cardinals.
4. He should tell bishops who continue to give permission for the Latin Mass that they will be dismissed from their office.
5. He should ban the use of Roman vestments and priest’s birettas at all public Masses.
A SCHISM?
Some people say that if Francis takes a hard line on this matter it will lead to schism.
But the truth is that the Latin Brigade are already in schism as they reject Vatican II, the vernacular Mass and the papacy of Francis.
Better to have a clean, well defined schism, than a creeping, underground schism.
THE ORATORY IMPROVEMENTS
We have added an antique tryptych to our Otarory.
It originates in Belgium.
The central image is of Christ being taken down from the cross.
The left image is the presentation of the head of John the Baptist to King Herod.
Is the right image of the three young men being burnt in oil by King Nebuchadnezzar for refusing to abandon their faith ?
The front cover shows Jesus as the Lamb of Sacrifice and the other side a figure holding a chalice ?
BISHOP PAT BUCKLEY 
164 replies on “POPE FRANCIS AND THE LATIN MASS BRIGADE.”
Never thought you’d be in favour of more centralisation and power in the Vatican, Pat. Did they not teach you in Clonliffe that a bishop is pontiff in his own diocese and moderator of the liturgy, and not a mere local representative or ambassador of the bishop of Rome?
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What an interesting comment of yours, Pat:
“You have all these new societies of priests and latin rite monasteries springing up.”
It could be juxtaposed with: “You have all those old societies of priests and novus ordo monasteries drying up”.
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And Pat, would you like Pope Francis to treat the ‘Latin Mass Brigade’ in the way that Cahal Daly treated you? There you are sitting in your armchair spitting anathemas at people if they wear a traditional style of hat; what if the ‘Biretta Boys’ are not having sex on their altars like the ones who just love a loose rubric to play around with and dazzle the congregation with how entertaining they are (in public and in private). You have stated that you believe that the pope should encourage schism rather than allow a liturgical issue to fester. Pardon me, but I think that the cure is worse than the malady and how can you, who obstinately maintain your own schism and breach with the Church in favour of your personal opinions, fail to grant the same latitude to others, and, in fact, do not care to belong to anything that you do not personally control? “Throw them out!” – the Buckley antiphon – let them join me in the darkness. Is the blog about universalising your own experience … would the Oratory condescend to embrace the Latin Mass refugees from the Roman Catholic Church and give them pastoral succour?
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That would be an Orthodox model. In Roman theology the pope has supreme, immediate jurisdiction over all baptised souls and can bypass ordinary jurisdiction in the twinkling of an eye.
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PaulC @ 8:23 am — Indeed you have a good point, but why is it the pope does not exercise this authority when it comes to abuse and the covering up of?
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So succint.
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11.10, that would be regarded as a vulgar question in Rome.
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Cleraly rooting out abuse isn’t anywhere near the top of this Pope’s agenda.
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11:00
Homespun theology can take you only so far. The independence of the local bishop needs to be complemented with the doctrine of the universal primacy of the bishop of Rome. The office of primacy was established over the centuries as a service to protect the unity of the church. The problem with the Mass of the 1570 missal’s continuation in use is that it was becoming a symbol of resistance to the Secound Council of the Vatican. It’s not a coincidence that more than 40% of the locations of the abrogated form of the Roman rite were in the U.S. In order to prevent a 21st Century form of Gallicanism or Febronianism from taking root Francis needed to act decisively.
It’s more than a co-incidence that the U.S. bishops’ decision to ignore the recent letter of Ladaria and the CDF immediately preceded the release of Traditionis custodes.
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Why does all this debate over vestments and which book/order to use for mass make me think of deckchairs on the Titanic?
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Pat doesn’t believe in collegiality any more.
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The central problem is that various groups are using the LM as a rallying point for dissent.
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Not according to Archbishop Jude on Saturday when he told Dermot Farrell he had Ossory, K&L and Ferns under him and he is the Metropolitan.
Archbishop Jude had it wrong Archbishop Dermot cannot interfere in their Dioceses it is only Pope Francis.
The Congregation at the Curia can advise Bishops but the Top man is Pope Francis.
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12.03
Jim S. You are an illiterate and intolerable pseudo – knowall.
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The vice-rector of the NEC (and who was former Private Secretary of Cardinal Wueurl) who has just had to resign is no lover of the Latin Mass.
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Typical of the NAC been a hothouse of free love since Dolan was in charge.
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Pat, where did you purchase the magnificent tryptych? It kooks magnificent. I have a love for icons and have bought smaller tryptych(s) abroad in monasteries. I believe there will be a greater resistance to Pope Frances’s edict on the Latin Mass. There was / is a beautiful mystery about Latin but the Latin Mass has been hijacked by many who seek comfort in certainties of the old mass. We cannot doubt the beautiful pageantry but it is over the top. We could certainly relearn a reverence and respect for the Eucharist which we seem to have lost in banal celebrations.
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Where did you get the antiques Pat? They are very nice.
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Agree with + Pat entirely. Mother Burke’s face looks like a slapped arse in that picture and she has caused much harm to the church. The LM brigade have sought to sabotage the reforms of the Second Vatican Council and the time has come to show loyalty or ship out.
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“For where two or three are gathered in my name, there am I among them.”
I think Frank has forgotten this bit.
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It is the true mass.
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Martels book In the Closet sheds light on the rigidity and lace of the Latin Mass Brigade – it’s a device, a signal of their repressed or not so repressed homosexuality – Pope Francis has declared open warfare on the gay clique, the gay lobby. And Pope Benedict and gorgeous George are the arch gays and quasi leaders of all repressed and active clerical homosexuals – Roche is v likely gay himself but this is a war for the heart of the church – gays v gays and it’s open warfare, all bets are off, let battle commence. The Latin Mass has v little to do with God and everything to do with Gay.
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Once again, for the slow learners, Fr McCamley, McCarrick, Weurl, Tobin, Zanchetta, Coccopalmerio, Rory, the Abbott, the whole sorry lot of them are Novus Ordites to their fingertip.
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Rev. Carlos Urrutigoity?? Offers the old rite and interfered with boys. And numerous accounts of child sexual abuse in the SSPX.
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10.10
You can’t spell. Don’t expect to be heard.
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10.10 am was that your response to child victims raped by priests? Typical RCC response.
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The right images of the triptych concern St John the Evangelist. The outer panel is the Evangelist holding his symbol, the poisoned chalice with the snake. The inner panel is the legend of the Evangelist being boiled in oil, but unscathed, at the Latin Gate in Rome.
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I totally agree. I just made the mistake of having a look at Catholic Truth Scotland and it’s barmy on there – anti vaccine, great reset, new world order.
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Ban Roman Vestments? How absurd. They wear them most of the time for the Novus Ordo. Banning a shape of Vestments is just about dressing up not about theology.
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Come on we all know that they represent much more.
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This is only because he has a bad conscience about his big scale Asian hating (which associates of Fathers Borallo and Young know about) and has fastened upon a “distraction”. He fancies himself as the head of the diplomatic entity (hostile foreign power) that JP II and Mrs Thatcher raised up from its normal lowly “pro” nuncio level.
It would be more prudent for new clergy not to enter this strange apparatus, which doesn’t belong to their bishops any more. Those already in it must plan their choices if they haven’t been talked out of their private means by “lay” people. (It’s no problem for us though, all we need do is “don’t go up” – reverse interdict – compulsory communion is another of JP’s “anti Bolshevik” hegemonist fads and we weren’t burdened with it in the “bad” days.)
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There’s a lot of interesting stuff on the Charity Commission website. For instance, I’ve discovered that More House, the Catholic student hostel in South Kensington, in which Dean Kennedy was briefly chaplain, has been closed and put up for sale.
The property is expected to sell for close to £30 million. Not a bad windfall for the 19 nuns who own it: the Canonesses of St Augustine. Their youngest member is 57; the oldest is 99.
In their latest annual report, amid lots of justice and peace guff, the very right on canonesses say that they don’t anticipate remaining in existence for much longer.
Good old Vatican II.
In their accounts, the Augustinans (Bishop Campbell’s order) say over 50% of their members are aged over 70; that 20 years ago they had 12 houses, though now they have 4 and soon they will have just one (Hammersmith).
Good old Vatican II.
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Vocations fell off a cliff after VATII. Happy Clappy rubbish.
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Maudlin Mick doing a poundshop version of chicken egg expert Dawkins alert.
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Think the swinging 60s caused a vocation crisis. People began waking up to the fact that the church didn’t have a monopoly on truth and that happiness on earth rather than in the next life ought to be strived for. Church has been losing momentum ever since.
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@ 12.00: In an era when frightened humans sought to placate the angry “gods” of thunder, lightning, famine, flood, volcanoes etc etc, intercessory individuals’ magic potions initiated some solace, ……..and thus began the whole subsequent industry of religious beliefs promulgated by the self convinced self serving priestly caste class.
As the intelligent observations of science has explained many of humankind’s primitive fears, so too has reliance on the comfort blanket of religion diminished.
At one time humans sought succour from a multitude of gods. Slowly but surely they’ve been abandoned. Nowadays believers, certainly in the western world, believe in only one God.
It’s a long road of travel but heading in the right direction.
MMM
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I’m pleased you noticed @ 11:38. Well done! It’s necessary to use the cheaper “shopping” options for the less well able. I do try my best to keep it simple for the slow learners.
MMM
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I think those vestments are beautiful.
Cardinal Zen was a great leader in Hong Kong, it was cardinal Tong who encouraged the Latin Mass.
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Sorry, but the way you use the term “Latin Mass” is confused, and factually wrong. The dichotomy here is between the 1970 Roman Rite, and the 1962 Roman Rite (no permissions to celebrate earlier versions have been given since 1970).
The official text of the 1970 Missal is in Latin, and the official text of the Lectionary is the New Vulgate. The former is NOT the “vernacular Mass”, and the latter is NOT the “Latin Mass”. The celebration of Mass in the vernacular has never been enforced, neither has celebration with the priest facing the congregation -and the 1970 revision made no provision for style of vestments. Rather, what Pope Francis is seeking to establish is the universal acceptance of the text and rubrics of the 1970 Rite. That’s it.
To be fair, he has prescribed that Lectionary readings in celebrations from the 1962 Missal should be provided in the vernacular -which is ground-breaking, because no such magisterial directive has been given as regards the 1970 Lectionary. However, I’m aware that celebrations from the 1962 Missal have already often given Lectionary readings in Latin and then the vernacular -and this happens (e.g.) in the Russian Orthodox Byzantine rite, too (that is, Church Slavonic followed by Russian translation).
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You know as well as everyone reading this that while what you say is technically true, it wasn’t how Vatican 2 hit the ground running. The 1970 missal actually presupposes the altar faces away from the people; in reality altars were turned round ‘because the council said so’. The documents of Vatican 2 suggest some vernacular in the liturgy; in reality 1970 masses in Latin are few and far between.
So in common usage Latin Mass= preconciliar mass, just as Pat uses it and attempting to turn a correction into catechesis will always fail.
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10.17
The overwhelming majority of the world’s bishops requested the vernacular as norm and priest and people facing each other, and other reforms. The conciliar changes developed their own reform momentum.
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I doubt Jesus cares how he is worshipped, this is all about control not spirituality.
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How true.
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Bishop Pat, I salute you for initiating a vigorous debate, one of the more interesting on the blog and for publishing posts on which you take a few hits.
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It seems that +DILF has decided not to introduce restrictions on the Latin Mass, but what about the +Aul Doll, Bp Pat? Will she be subject to expected Archbishop Roche’s UK crackdown, I wonder.
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“You have all these new societies of priests and latin rite monasteries springing up.” And increasing mass attendances to same. What’s so wrong about that Pat?
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Pat, you are returning to your Roman Catholic Roots with your Oratory…lovely art. Those vestments are museum pieces. Worth purchasing for historic value. Any chance?
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It looks like +Elsie is overstepping the mark, Bp Pat.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E8W1VQsXoAEDH4l?format=jpg&name=900×900
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That old pooftah in San Francisco is also kicking her legs her height again.
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Another old queen defying Frankie.
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The +Ol Ginger.
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9.29: Is this the only way you can contribute – by name calling? What a philistine you are!! Take that wee brain of yours from between your legs and try to look smart, you dunce hole!!
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What the Hell is +Elsie up to allowing this. It’s as though she countenances people to come and experience the so called ‘beauty’ of the TLM for the first time. Completely going against the instruction of the Holy Father. She needs shipping out and let them appoint a diocesan administrator till they find a replacement. The celebrant isn’t even a Westminster priest but a roving priest mandated by Hopes to offer the old rite
https://thecatholicuniverse.com/fr-henry-appointed-to-role-as-traditional-apostolate/
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It’s all about control Pat, the same way your expulsion by Daly was all about control. I doubt Frank will take the hard line you suggest Pat, he risks losing chunks of his empire.
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There is a certain irony when Vatican II fanatics talk about the TLM being a “rallying point for all kinds of dissent”. I’m sure the SSPX will continue to exist when all the post-Vatican II Mass Centres have closed. Will the last person out, please turn out the lights….
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Don’t forget that in English speaking countries we don’t see the full horror of some of the things associated with the old mass elsewhere. You have Holocaust denial, and people wanting to get rid of the religious freedom of Vatican II and go back to the crusades. They want a ‘Christian’ civilization founded on violence.
Some Latin mass groups are classified as hate groups in their own countries.
The closest we get in English speaking countries is Bishop Williamson and groups like Holy Family monastery.
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Pat, I am quite happy to offer the Latin Mass and I dress in my cassock for formal occasions. I also accept the legitimacy of Vatican II. The two rites can live together. It’s not a competition. My occasional offering of the Latin Mass has improved how I offer the vernacular. However, there is some truth in what you say that some groups are hijacking the Latin Mass to further their anti-Vatican II agenda.
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The typtych is lovely, Bishop Pat. It goes nicely with our new tabernacle.
It’s a beautiful chapel with light – not too old fashioned and not too modern: just nice.
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What happened to pastoral accompaniment, or is that only for people we like?
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People have a right to be sustained by the sacraments. The ordinary form of the mass the missal promulgated by Paul VI – they are therefore being accompanied pastorally.
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Pastoral accompaniment is a two-way thing — we have to choose to accompany others and be willing to be accompanied by others.
Sadly, some people are unwilling to do either… therein lies their problems?
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Are you related to Archbishop Roche – though I realise that Roche is a common surname.
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It is relevant to note and a matter of great pride that an Archbishop (soon to be Cardinal) from England and Wales is working with authority to correct error. Archbishop Roche will do a fine job in his Dicastery. Those of us who live in England or Wales should be grateful to and proud of him. Those of you who live across the sea should surely be pleased about the contribution we are making to the Church?
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Roche was a truly awful Bishop of Leeds. That’s why his archepiscopal throne in Rome is a desk. I’m old enough to remember when libs (CINOs) used to denounce the Roman Curia.
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10:41
It’s nit nice to have “Archbishop Roche – Pride” as your user name. It’s 2021 ffs, it doesn’t matrer that he’s gay, so your innuendo by putting Pride next to his name is uncalled for.
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12.42. No innuendo. You are sexualising the mundane. Pride means admiration. That is what I meant. Straighten your thoughts, please.
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Innuendo is the Italian for suppository.
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Roche is a doer and gets on with it and very efficent instead of bull shitting like most bishops do. He didn’t get to where he is by sitting on his arse and picking his nose.
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The Novus Ordo is so reverent. I hope none of these youngers out their hips out.
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Spot the man (or the under-70s) contest.
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The thurifer is uber-straight. As is old Bishop Remi.
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This was hilarious to watch – clearly ridiculous nonsense and at the far end of the scale at the other end is mother Burke with her 15ft capa magna, ermine and ostrich feathered fans who looks just as ridiculous.
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Old Remi De Roo, chief queen at the puppet show, remains in full communion with the Holy See.
Like Roche, he left a devasted dioces after he left, in his case after dodgy investments in race horses.
As far as we know, Remi didn’t go in for the usual, as practiced by that famous liberal of the same vintage, Rembert Weakland, who wrecked all round him and plundered diocesan funds to pay his boyfriend.
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/bishop-takes-blame-for-financial-mess/article4163946/
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They are mad for the aul puppets.
https://johnmonaco.medium.com/the-other-abuse-crisis-in-the-catholic-church-that-no-one-is-talking-about-c4e5ca094dc1
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Does anyone understand why these groups (St Joan of Arc church does it as well) feel the need for puppets? It’s bizarre.
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Why doesn’t Frank crack down on the heretical German “synodal way” if he’s so concerned about Church unit.
I suppose it would be unrealistic to expect blog readers to know that there is a plurality in liturgical expression in the Catholic Church – not only in the 24 Churches that make up the Catholic Church, but in the Latin Rite itself, with the Roman and other rites of Toledo and Lyon co-existing with the Carthusian and Dominican rites, and more recently the Zaire use.
The Father’s house has many mansions.
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Hand on heart, apart from Pat, how many blog contributors or readers go to Mass of any kind? Not many, I’d suggest. It would be like teetotalers discussing the merits of different types of beer. 😂
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11.10: None is the answer but neither do any of them attend the rituals at or support the Oratiry in any way. Yet Pat provides all the disgruntled ones to use his blog for pouring out vitriolic, vile commentary. Hypocrites the lot of them. Charlatans.
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ROFL it was claimed on here yesterday that the hierarchy read this and that Daniel Etienne does. Some comments are from priests. How can you say that nobody who reads this goes to mass.
Are you really as idiotic as you’re acting? And is there any point to asking whether contributors go to mass?
If you meant it as a dig, you’re more barmy even than you’re acting.
Enjoy the days coming when states start controlling your cult because it refuses to enact sensible financial or safeguarding policies.
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For a person of blatant homosexuality, she gives gays a bad name.
https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-jngj4igVm9Y/WdJh3cv3xlI/AAAAAAAARpk/ti3Szf0Lyw4XrK-Tme7u487kbv01aj2sACLcBGAs/s1600/raymond_burke_7.jpg
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She’s just a big sissy. Looks like one of the ugly sisters. What the hell is that apron for?
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Look at the state of her here, too, Bp Pat, with a young flamer kissing her ring.
http://www.icrsp.org/IMAGES-APOSTOLATS/IMAGES-2011/GRICIGLIANO/Ordinations-Diaconales/VL3W0349.jpg
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It’s a gremial, a liturgical apron. No connection to Freemasons. Although silk it is used by the bishop when sitting in pontifical functions such as anointing ordinands, to protect the vestments.
The maniple also had a humble origin as a cloth to wipe the priest’s hands and face, and it is on the arm like an old lady putting her hankie up her sleeve.
The scapular part of the religious habit started off as an apron for work.
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Most Novus Ordo CINOs haven’t seen an ordination. They are much rare since Vatican II renewed the Church.
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So the big fat auld queen has her pinny on? The whole thing is utterly ridiculous. Do yo really think this is what Jesus envisioned…
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So the maniple was a sweat rag? Why use it now then unless auld mother Burke gets hot and sweaty when surrounded by young attractive men in ecclesiastical drag…
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@1.58pm
I don’t think that calling someone a “big fat auld queen” was envisaged by Jesus.
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@2.380m I am sure Our Lord would treat him like he did the money lenders in the temple, he’d pull the bejewelled mitre off his fat head and horse whip his lardy buttocks.
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She’s the Church’s Liberace – such a drag queen. Her appearance is comical to me. https://youtu.be/gj7t0hXek3Q
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Pat, you attract some nasty people, eg 12.31, 1.58, 2.04 & 2.51, who is one person I think, and quite possibly is the Southwark stalker. Why would anyone want to say such harsh, cruel, unloving and unChristian things?
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Why is Vatican II (which few on this blog will have read) worshipped as a sort of supercouncil over and above all that preceded it? Did the Church start in 1962?
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Yeah Good Pope John and the New Pentecost, the trouble is it still hasn’t been fully implemented and all Church Councils take a hundred years to have an effect and it’s the fault of these pesky trad young priests who need to be forced to smell sheep and preside at the Supper of the Lord 1969 to animate the assembly of the People of God.
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1.58: No, Jesus didn’t envision this caricature as sèen in Cardinal Burke but neither did Jesus envision the kind of offensive, derogatory remarks and language of an ignoramus like you. Name calling is childish…
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Will someone please explain the connection of Burke and Co dressy uppey attire and the child,wrapped in swaddling clothes and laid in a manger.
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We don’t just worship the babe of Bethlehem, but the Glorifed, Risen Christ, the great High Priest.
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3.46 pm if looking like a cross between Dame Edna and Liberace is a foretaste of the resurrection I’ll pass thank you!
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1.34
The Roman Catholic Church has been going for over 2000 years and serves 1.3 Billion World Wide.
The True Church is led by the Supreme Pontiff and at present it is His Holiness Pope Francis.
The Latin Mass Brigade think they are “The Church” however they are wrong as they do not teach Love Hope and Charity and the Greatest of these is Love.
Pope Francis or his Successor will not give the Latin Mass Brigade an Ordinariate there is No chance.
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3:51
I have no doubt at some point you went to something which called itself a school, and they no doubt taught you things, but they failed to teach you the use of the comma. Yet you won’t say it isn’t a school.
That is a whole sweeping judgement about a whole slice of people in your church which is totally unjustified and you are the one tending towards schism.
No doubt you are the same idiot who said yesterday the church doesn’t want these people.
A read of a Catechism, particularly the parts on the nature of the church and baptism, would correct things your schooling omitted.
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And the Anglican ordinariate will die a death because it was founded on a complete misunderstanding of liturgical customs among high Anglicans.
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I don’t really get you when you speak on this subject Pat. You’ve been on the receiving end of punitive measures which are a long way from the here-comes-everyone genius of small-c Catholicism. Yet you exalt in the punitive reactionism of Pope Francis, and you criticise the benevolent responsiveness of Pope Benedict because … why? A few malfeasant characters in the Latin Mass brigade trigger an emotional response in you which clouds your usual thinking? Stick with your crusade against clericalism and moral hypocrisy. When it comes to the Latin Mass, you suddenly jump to the side of tyranny, and become part of the problem.
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I just don’t see that Francis has any other option but to move against them.
The world’s Catholic bishops gathered together in a council and agreed on certain things.
You cant want to be a Roman Catholic and be in opposition to the pope and a whole council.
Its a total contradiction.
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Was the New Mass really what the Second Vatican Council had in mind? Don’t forget Ratzinger was at it, Bergoglio wasn’t.
If you read Sacrosantum Concilium the reforms proposed were very conservative compared to what we finally got:
– “36. Particular law remaining in force, the use of the Latin language is to be preserved in the Latin rites.” (More vernacular is allowed, but as an exception.)
– “116. The Church acknowledges Gregorian chant as specially suited to the Roman liturgy: therefore, other things being equal, it should be given pride of place in liturgical services.”
– 54″.[…]steps should be taken so that the faithful may also be able to say or to sing together in Latin those parts of the Ordinary of the Mass which pertain to them.”
– “59. It is therefore of the highest importance that the faithful should easily understand the sacramental signs, and should frequent with great eagerness those sacraments which were instituted to nourish the Christian life.”
Also, from a legal point of view, Benedict is completely correct that the TLM has never been abrogated. Just read Missale Romanum, 1970.
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1:57 Yes you’re quoting the actual words of the council, however what Pat is saying is the usual perception of what the council wanted which (with no disrespect) priests of his age were taught.
I am sure you will acknowledge both that in reality the application on the ground didn’t match the documents and that the documents can usually be interpreted in several ways. These different interpretations led to further development from the documents.
In fact the passages you quote were virtually ignored from day 1.
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Frank’s motu proprio is of far lesser status than a conciliar document, even one of Vatican II, which was itself no more than a pastoral council. The motu proprio is being received in the same same spirit as the CINOs received Humanae Vitae.
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Pat, do you have strong views on the Book of Common Prayer Vs Common Worship in the “Church of England”? Why are you concerned about the internal worship arrangement of a church you don’t belong to?
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Because I am a survivor of Roman Catholicism and because I minister to other RC survivors and victims
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Your inverted commas indicate this isn’t a serious question and just another attempt at diversion by a bigot. Your time would be better spent acting on the rampant corruption in your own denomination.
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The Church isn’t a denomination. It is the Church, the Mater et Magister, as St John XXXIII taught us so well. Other ecclesial communites are denominations.
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@4:57 It’s the ecclesial equivalent of the awkward child who won’t play with other children and has no social skills. This is also reflected in the maturity and social skills of its clergy.
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If Bishop Pat Buckley were to adopt the Traditional Latin Mass, it would be the ultimate middle finger to the Roman Church. 😃
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Discern causa meam at 3.04pm
Indeed🤣
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Great to have you back, DG. You routed MC good and proper. He is a beaten docket.
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MC is on holidays in Austria
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Pat,
Today’s BBC website is reporting on the Historical Child Sex abuse Inquiry in Scotland.
It describes the former Benedictine Fort Augustus School as a ‘haven for serial paedophiles’
Pat, I feel there are a number of questions needing asked, especially of the senior figures in the Aberdeen diocese at that time. Did, for example, the then bishop of Aberdeen and subsequent Archbishop of Glasgow, Mario Conti, know what was going on and if he did what did he do about it in terms of reporting
Even though the Bens were not part of the diocese as such did any church figure seek to alert the authorities even if they were only hearing the rumours. I, a layman, was hearing them in the 70’s here in Edinburgh
What did the senior figures in the Order do about matters.
We’re any senior church figures compromised and we’re afraid to speak.
Pat, I fear another shitstorm brewing in the Catholic Church in Scotland.
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3.05
There is No shitstorm coming to Scotland.
The National Government has commended the Bishops for all the action taken so far and constantly improving and training everyone who has a care.
In God’s Image is very successful and in every parishes.
As for Edinburgh the Clergy and Laity there stayed silent long enough with KOB Thankful No Children or vulnerable people were involved in that.
Conti is in his 80’s and likely a selective memory now.
Taylor covered up Paul Moore who is currently serving 9 years.
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….says the spokesperson for every chancery west of Paris.
Your school also omitted to teach you the correct use of capital letters. Incidentally your extraordinary style is very distinctive and I am pleased to see you tone it down a bit here in comparison to your ‘contributions’ to Catholic Untruth Scotland.
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Fort Augustus Abbey school was ‘haven for paedophiles’
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-58174091
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Majority of Benedictine Abbeys are rest homes for nonces.
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And this is literally true, except when they have been forced to farm them out awsy from the premises.
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And they all said the New Mass.
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And wore simple polyester vestments.
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I would say the English Benedictine congregation should have been suppressed but I am not sure whether anything would be gained by that, because the others are as bad.
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The future of Benedictine life in GB is to be found in Glastonbury
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@6:11 You are a wag.
The future of Benedictine life in Britain is not immediately apparent. EBC and Subiaco-Cassinese congregations are both deadeon their feet with the exceptions of Pluscarden and Belmont. They and Buckfast (because of the lucre) will be the future but G*d knows in what structure. The smaller groups trying to do different forms of Benedictine life like Glastonbury and East Hendred are too small to survive unless huge numbers join.
Of women’s monasteries Stanbrook and Ryde will survive.
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6:11 pm, they said the same about Silverstream Priory in Ireland. 🤮
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My cousin was nearly sent to Fort Augustus. He was a very pretty blond little boy and not very bright. He was also traumatised by the sudden death of his mother. They would have had a field day with him. Thank god he was sent to the local school in the end. I have also had a close encounter with Opus Dei. I was invited to a meeting which I thought was to share ideas for children’s liturgy. I wasn’t allowed to drive there as they were sending a car from Manchester. I ended up in a house in the Fylde with some strange people and cottoned on. On the way back I said to my “friend” and who are these lovely people. Opus Dei she said. There are some very dangerous people in the church
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3.14pm yes the old fat queen does come out with poison. In light of the Covid restrictions she pronounced whilst in full drag
“Worship is particularly needed now because of ‘how distant our popular culture is from God,’ he wrote, noting abortion and euthanasia, then attacking the LGBTQ equality movement, particularly activism for recognition of transgender identity.
“‘We need only to think of the pervasive attack upon the integrity of human sexuality, of our identity as man or woman, with the pretense of defining for ourselves, often employing violent means, a sexual identity other than that given to us by God, With ever greater concern, we witness the devastating effect on individuals and families of the so-called “gender theory.” There is no question that great evils like pestilence are an effect of original sin and of our actual”
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Pat, should Polish Masses in British and Irish parishes, or neo-cat or charismatic renewal Masses be banned, in the interests of unity?
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3.48
Parishes a flourish with Polish people however they usually start coming Mass when they feel comfortable in English and part of the community.
Polish people feel part of the Universal Church led by Pope Francis.
The Latin Mass Brigade think they are The Church.
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You obviously don’t know much about the Poles. The Nigerians are always trying to take over parishes too.
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I think having Mass in the Polish vernacular for the large numberbof Poles in Ireland is fine.
The whole neo-cat apparatus should be dismantled and banned. Very bad organisation.
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If I agree with you on nothing else, Pat, I agree with you on the neo-catechuminate, which is truly a church within a church. It and Opus Dei are cults.
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Totally agree. Bith shoukd be suppressed.
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Before we were married and when we were much younger, my wife and I were invited to an Opus Dei recital in their house in Hampstead. The love bombing that went on, particularly towards my wife to get her to join was extraordinary. They made clear that 100% commitment was required.
I also had some dealings with the Legionaries of Christ, another cult loved by JPII. He had a total blind spot when it came to these movements.
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She looks like a fat ,old panto dame.
She reckons she’s in with a good shout once Francisco pops his clogs .
This may not be too far away. She’s 73.
Shes behaving herself recently but knows that if she can pull this off she’ll rout the reformers and reinstate the old rites,thus eliminating the potential schism and become the darling of the new order and true church.
I would not put away those lace garments just yet.
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Should people who worship with Pat be called the “Oratory Brigade” or would that be rude?
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I wish thats all we were called 😉
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You’ve really annoyed them today, Pat. Great stuff.
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4.59: Pat, you are obviously hurt at times by some criticisms. You have to be. Sadly, your blog has allowed some of the worst forms of nasty, vitriolic, hate inciting and offensive name calling that i have ever encountered on social platforms. You seem not to have any guiding ethos or principles and have often expressed some very hurtful remarks and judgments about many named individuals. I think human decency boundaries have been transgressed all too often. Your blog is useful but surely there must be a place fir moral integrity in relatiin to msny comments. You ince banned MC precisely for this reason. I think you need to exercise this wisdom again re: some of the horrible, nasty commenters who are treating others like s**t in a hateful, vindictive, denigrating manner.
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Only the criticisms of those I love and admire affect me 🤯
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I hope, Bishop Pat, that your attention will turn soon to the latest twist in the North American College strange goings on saga, with the forced resignation of the vice-rector who had been named in a €125 million law suit brought by a former sem.
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So do I. It’s a very strange set up. They all put on an outward appearance of manliness and conformity. You see them around Rome in their NAC bomber jacket and stock style clerical shirts. Always working out in the gym, with pearly white teeth, but a very strong gay undercurrent. Bishop David Toups was a poster boy for the NAC, favourite of Dolan – still good looking and unsurprisingly made a diocesan bishop at an early age.
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Cardinal Burke has posted on Twitter today that he has tested positive for COVID-19. But is resting comfortably and receiving excellent medical care. He asks for prayers
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Last night, Joseph Shaw of the Latin Mass Society tweeted that Cardinal Burke was gravely ill, and very quickly other people said it was fake news.
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Neo-Cats caused mayhem in parishes in Clifton years ago – worst is when clergy get involved and try and make the parish Neo-Cat.
Alan Fudge in Westminster was scary, unfriendly and control freak – he was a fair orator so people said he had gift of preaching.
Mile End, Guardian Angels, Neo Cat hotbed.
The Catholic Truth Society (publisher) is big into Neo-Cat malarkey.
Harsh, elitist and more Catholic than the pope – oh and very judgemental towards sexual sins etc.
Elitist, very very clique but not as snobbish and up own arse as Opus Dei.
I’m pretty sure Jack Valera tweets about being gay and celibate etc and is a PR for OD or anybody else who will pay him some biggish bucks.
Amusing when clergy feel flattered that OD has tried to recruit them.
People don’t realise that Escriva was right wing pro fascist. pro Franco, super elitist and big money got him canonised.
They bailed Pope John Paul II out of Banco Ambrosia and Calvi scandal and it secured them Personal Prelature etc. Funny that!!
Opus Dei is a cult by any ‘what is a cult criteria?’
Neo-Cats and OD attracts repressed homosexuals like bees to honey.
Fr Vladimir Feltzman was member but turned against them – gave the impression of a women scorned vibe. Interesting, wonder what went down.
OD love bomb and socially flatter to win adherents – huge in the US, similar to Scientology in weirdness.
Youth 2000 similar vibe – elitist and middle class.
Charismatic Renewal – attracts cult of personality, high control clergy and sense of their own importance – you know, God loves you, but I’m his favourite.
Clergy Charismatics in positions of perceived power – VG, Treasurer etc utter nightmare as they play the hotline to God routine and God help you if you question their authority then all hell breaks lose.
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JPII and Benedict did great harm to the church.
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One Saturday evening I went to the neo-cat Mass in Ogle St, thinking it was just the normal parish vigil Mass.
Well it wasn’t. They all sat round the huge square table altar. I was made to feel most unwelcome and an outsider.
People took it in turns to accuse themselves and others of sins andvthere was a bit of a slaning match.
The bread was a big square leavened loaf, from which people broke off pieces.
At the end there was a sort of frantic Jewish wedding-type dance, in which they all linked arms and did high kicks and moved round the church. They deliberately didn’t bring me into the dance and I left the church dejected and feeling shit about myself.
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Perfect analysis, 6.41pm.
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Poor auld Mother Burke let’s hope she’s vaccinated as she would be classified as morbidly obese. No doubt she is blaming the LGBTQ community for her plight.
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Who was the neo cat who commmited suicide from Alice Hall. CMOC made the big mistake promoting the neo cat Donega on to the staff there. Amy now promotes them in Dundalk.
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Jack Valero is so obviously a HUGE girl.
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You’re doing great work to improve the appearance of the Oratory, Pat. It was great to start with and now looks even better.
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@7.34pm His name was Pablo and he drank a big jar of weed killer when back home in Spain. He had a horrible slow death. The Neo Cats tried to hush it up because he became disillusioned with them.
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Did I read somewhere that Eamon Martin is sending Neo Cats into parishes as curates?? If I am correct then people should be worried.
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Yes. He has recently sent a Spanish Neo Cat to a curate of Magherafelt 😪
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Pat @ 8.41pm Jesus! I never realised that.
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It’s well known among the clergy in Armagh nobody wanted to go to Magherafelt. Fr Des came back from the Missions 5yrs ago and had little choice with his appointment to Magherafelt. No native clergy will touch the PP with a barge pole so next best thing is send in a neo cat that no other Armagh PP wanted either. What a sorry state of affairs.
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Extremely glad to hear this will indeed be the last catastrophic debacle the Reverend Canon Doctor Paul Nener will be at the epicenter of. Convincingly “immune” from the law, untouchable. Until now; until external powers came to the aid of the abandoned.
Wicked, evil and sadistic human being, is that man. A wicked and evil psychopath!
Thank God I am now safe!
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Nobody takes an interest in this invalidly ordained Anglican cleric. Are there not any Anglican blogs which might take up your cause?
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A fine turnout of comments for the Latin ladies, Bp Pat. At least Ft Etienne got a day off.
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Elsie’s Pole at Westminster Cathedral is a NeoCat.
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I miss Hughie Connolly’s Bin Masses on a Beach. 🧟🏳️🌈
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On the topic of yesterday, people shouldn’t be feeding the ducks with bread. Lettuce, peas, garden bird seed and/or porridge oats are better healthier options for the ducks. 💦🦆💦
Like any of the Birmingham Six, I am an innocent man who has been wronged.
Is mise le meas,
Séamus
PAX
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I have, alas, known the trads up close and personally. I wonder if many of the 1962 masses, shrine churches and what have you would disappear if each diocese made sure that a reverent celebration of the Novus Ordo was made available regularly, in Latin, with good music and ceremonial. In the places where that happens, such as at the Manchester Oratory and (I think) the Oxford Oratory, the 1962 mass is a sideshow rather than a rallying point for reactionaries.
If you look at the Association for Latin Liturgy’s directory (the Association deals mainly, or even exclusively with the Novus Ordo), the number of places with Latin Novus Ordo masses is very, very small and many of those will only have parts of the ordinary in Latin. It’s no bad thing that most masses are in the vernacular, but the Council did not want all masses (or even most of the mass, on another reading) in the vernacular.
Via media all the way!
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