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ARE POPE FRANCIS’ CRITICS AND HATERS EVIL?

Pope Francis talks a lot about the Devil.

Recently he has said that those hating him and wishing him dead are are”doing the work of the Devil”

And strangely, it is the right-wing conservative Catholics who hate him and wish him dead.

You would have thought that conservative Catholics would have done something they’ve always done – love the pope and almost treat him like God?

They were always the ones who pushed papal infallibility to the extremes.

THE REAL PROBLEM:

The real problem the right-wingers is that this pope is not on their side – and Benedict was.

Francis has

1. Made sympathetic overtures to the LGBT folk.

2. Restricted the Latin Mass very heavily.

3. Accepted same sex civil unions.

4. Restrained the Roman Curia.

5. Given the world’s bishops more say and authority.

Francis also has fairly big names after him from the right wing side – people like Cardinal Burke and Archbishop Vigano.

There is also the big American Catholic TV station ETWN.

MY VIEW:

As a liberal Catholic I am on Francis’ side in this scrap.

I did not like Benedict.

I see no point in the Latin Mass.

I believe the Vatican is totally corrupt.

I think that Vigano and especially Burke are dinosaurs.

THE OUTCOME:

There may well be a schism in the RCC with the Latin Mass and Lace Brigade breaking away and maybe eventually joining up with the SSPX.

On the other side, the German Church is ploughing its own furrow with its own synod and its intentions of allowing same-sex marriages and admitting Protestants to receive Holy Communion.

The real problem is that the RCC has never really managed to find its place in the modern world.

While most people are living in the 21 st Century the RCC is stuck in the past and most modern intelligent people are not willing to accept RC teachings on sexuality and women and many other issues.

Personally I like the “conflict” that is happening.

Change comes from conflict and change.

As for whether the Devil is involved?

He doesn’t have to be personally involved. There are many in the Church doing the “devilment” for him.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

AND SPEAKING OF DEVILS……….

156 replies on “ARE POPE FRANCIS’ CRITICS AND HATERS EVIL?”

Actually earlier today I was reading comments on the mundabor blog by people who say they pray for Francis to die and apparently believe that is their duty as catholics.
However I am just as disturbed by the pope calling his ‘enemies’ evil.
Both sides have lost direction in this. You see it in the continual pointless bickering they do here. It’s the sure sign the dinosaurs are dying out.

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His detractors are evil. Those especially within the Vatican who want to stifle his changes. When he tried to stop the lace brigade they really went for his jugular. He is in poor health. Roche has caused a stink in the last few days in England & Wales with a warning to the few Latin Mass crowd and their supportive bishops. No Latin and no Lace!! It’s a warning in particular to Vinny, Longley, Davies, Egan, Oakley, McMahon, et al. Adapt to the new changes or get gone.

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I don’t understand the indulgence with which various English bishops treat the lace and Latin brigade. It bemuses me. By and large, individually these bishops are not inclined towards the traditionalist liturgical style, and yet they allow it to flourish in their dioceses. Is it because they are just weak and want to avoid conflict with the aggressive and arrogant traditionalists, using the language of inclusivity, unity and charity to cover their feebleness ? I suspect so. They like an easy life. Roche, for whom I carry no candle, is made of sterner fascist stuff and is evidently laying down the law. Vinny and co will not like that My own view is that these bishops should bite the bullet and tell the traditionalists to get in line or get out. The traditionalists will probably do the latter, but will that be a loss ? They are a minority fringe group that does not just entertain with their lace and Latin nonsense, but more sinisterly bring moral and theological attitudes that are dangerous and hobbling to a Church that is trying to respond to a population of the 21st century rather than ministering to 19th century gentlemen and ladies. We could easily do without the traditionalists. Time for them to shape up or ship out.

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@9.08 am. Most of the Bishops of England and Wales are from working-class backgrounds. The Latin and Lace brigade has quite a few aristocrats and Oxbridge types, which cause them to fawn and accede to their requests.

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@11.54pm. The English lot of Bishops hate Roche’s position being so close to Francis. None more so than the control freak in Westminster. I hear Arthur is not afraid to confront them if they behave wrong. Let’s not forget he knows most of them and knows how useless they are. He is a Yorkshireman and with Yorkshire folk they tell you directly to the face rather than behind your back. Most bishops are merchants in dealing behind backs and they don’t like being confronted in the way Roche does. Afterall that’s where he is where he is.

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I think Declan Lang of Clifton has been pretty tough on the lace and Latin brigade. The others not so. They need to grow a set of balls and confront them. Francis was right, they are divisive, and playing up to them is just encouraging them to be even more divisive. it would be bloody and painful at first, but things would settle down. They need to send these traditionalists to the outer fringes, and hope that they will go off and set up little odd communities of their own, and become even more irrelevant and odder than they are now. I don’t expect them to do that, however, because they all seem to want a quiet life, especially after the mauling many of them received from IICSA. They haven’t got the stomach for a fight.

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Papa Francisco is well intentioned in some respects . Unfortunately he isn’t strong enough to root out the likes of mother Burke and her ilk. He’s up against the totally corrupt curia and the deeply entrenched gay cabal. He could demand obedience and call their bluff. But he just won’t do it. He’s getting damn all support for his initiative to try to get the 4,000 bishops across the world to act more and take local control. He’s trying to loosen the lace brigades influence and sideline the gay cardinals. He doesn’t have time on his side. Burke harbours the dream of becoming pope and continuing Benedicts atrocious regime.
Francis should act quickly and if a schism is caused so be it.

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On the other hand, he’s very cosy with the American gay cardinals?

I’m not “anti” Francis but I can’t help thinking he’s losing the plot a bit. He’s acting in a divisive and alienating manner.

Some of the stuff he comes out with “off the cuff” sounds downright unwise and even bad tempered.

Divisiveness is indeed the work of the devil. Satan loves to sow confusion. But, with Francis, it’s always those who disagree with him, or see things differently from him, who are on the side of the devil.

Infallibility doesn’t mean that the Pope is always right. A Pope can be wrong in his views as much as the next man.

Pope Francis shouldn’t be alienating people and causing polarisation in the Church – that’s the opposite of what a Pope should be doing. He’s the ‘Pontifex’ – the maker/builder of bridges. Has he forgotten this?

I certainly don’t wish him dead and I pray for him every day; but I am worried that he is trying to impose his pet ideologies and ideological bias on the Church. If he is, then he could certainly harm the Church.

Sometimes he is clear on morality and the Faith; but other times, he seems confused – and that causes confusion. He also comes across at times as acting out of bad temper. That can’t be good.

Just my tuppence worth.

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9.08am Excellent points and good analysis. @9.48am You are just an ignorant fool who adds zero to the debate.

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10:26am
No you’re an ignorant fool who does not like anyone with a contrary point of view to your your own. Too bad I couldn’t care less about an idiot like you so do wan!

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@12.17 Pastoral doesn’t come into it with the old dames of the lace brigade. They are only interested in the fripperies and appearances. Sounds like you are too.

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1:15pm
That’s what you think we will always fight for The True Mass, the so called liberal elete have tried for 50 years to be rid of it. It has not worked nor will it. You keep your proddy communion service if you want and your empty church’s and seminaries you’ll all die out eventually. There is nothing so ill-liberal as a liberal if you don’t agree with them.

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I know a priest from Liverpool who Arch Roche has helped on the quiet in Rome. As my old Seminary Lecturer told me before, which is now true, go to the top. Cut out the wishy washy Bishop middle man.

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12:34pm
You’re right Betty oul Declan has been very firm, but the wrong way. He bans The Latin Mass and allows an LGBT wan which is against the teachings of The Church. What an eejit the oul idiot is, an extremely bold and naughty gombeen.

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6.08 pm anon
Well I did quite like the Latin Mass. We did have the LM said by a certain priest at a certain church before he left. Hey Ho!

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1.15pm. “…send these traditionalists to the outer fringes…” The crazy thing is, and I am not a critic of Francis, is that he could well be experiencing cognitive dissonance over this; potentially sending them to the margins of the Church while also teaching that those on the margins should be ministered to and brought into the bosom of the Church.

Interesting times!

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To the Rome misinformant at 11.23, UJ is working with a curia and a cabal, has demanded obedience and called everyone’s bluff. His initiative is to stop the 4,000 bishops across the world taking local control.

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The fact that you tell us in your view that you are with his humbleness with all the left wing freethinkers and heretical statements this extremely divisive dictator anti-pope makes tells us we’re right to want him ousted. Your own words condemn him because if he was truly Catholic you’d be last one to be with him. We do not worry popes die, The Church will be with us Triumphant to the end despite you and all the buckbots.

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11.36 and 12.46
Are you wilfully obtuse?
If Francis is an antipope he’s not pope.
If he’s not pope, the see of Rome is vacant (i.e. a sedevacantist view).

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Pope Francis is earning a good wage, living the life despite critism, do you think he cares, not in the slightest, he’s still getting he’s arse wiped!

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Your view and the churches lack of understanding and respect, those morals and principles based on centeries old principles, has nothing to do with the church or you ….
Yet you make them accountable for it…. Your trying anyway..
I won’t wait until I’m your age to grow a pair…

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11.42: Now Yvonne, that’s not very ladylike of you, you growing a paor of b***s. When is your sex change operation? We’ll pray you’ll get the right size. As a man rhat would be essential. But, you’re only dreaming, aren’t you? 🦅🦅🦅…..cuckoo, cuckoo, cuckoo…

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Seminarians in Ireland and UK should be fitted with lockable chastity devices, as worn by many transgender maids.

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I know you like to present “talking points” but you’re making it look like you are promoting Vatican City State ideology. UJ and his hench people haven’t done 4 and 5 – except expediting a few administrative matters around individual clergy, and haven’t got any belief. When solidarity is out of fashion, just leave them alone.
Jesus doesn’t annihilate bread or wine so the basis of ordination has been a lie for hundreds of years before one considers trapping men into it for life which isn’t in the Bible. “Enim” really meant the exact opposite of what it is alleged to mean.
By embracing these very cruelties you are jeopardising your claimed independence while titillating the sentimental public. The hench people are just mushrooming the personality cult through their bloated quangoes. Note the recent US President studied at the Jesuit Fordham.
I think the hierarchy are relying on you to problem-solve for them out-of-channels to an excessive degree: they haven’t changed their brand and they haven’t changed their line, nor have Parolin and all his men.

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+Pat: I’ve not commented much of late as the level of commentary and the never ending blog about gay sex has been so depressing.
You have been asked many times to curtail the use of effeminate terminology for male clerics. These requests have been reasonable and showed sensitivity and balance. You continue to ignore them. You now continue the practice yourself @ 8:41. Why are you so obdurate?
Blog followers will know that I am no friend of clerics per se. But in terms of common decency, enough is enough.
MMM

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Are you suggesting that I OBEY your instructions or the instructions of others.

Today’s blog and yesterdays blog had nothing to do with gay sex.

Applying ladies names to priests and seminarians is a widespread clerical habit.

I got my girlie name on my first day in seminary.

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By Post Author

8:41 am

I think you’d look very smart vested properly like that. There is a lovely picture of you with your Mammy where you’re wearing a brocade Mitre and Chasuble very smart indeed, so much nicer than your usual polyester.

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Pat, it is not uncommon for groups or cliques to have “code words”. It is all to do with being part of an “in-crowd” and not known to outsiders. For that reason alone I think the use of female names on this blog defeats the purpose of communication, unless you only want to communicate with other priests and seminarians.

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8:49. You make a good point. Maybe Pat still hankers after maintaining some relevance to the RCC clerical clique?

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Gosh, she has a pair of pink slippers for Gaudete and Laetare, then? She’ll look like Pat from Eastenders wearing them.

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The greatest power that Francis has is to appoint the cardinals who will elect his successor. Whilst he may try and do his bit during his pontificate, I’d say he realises that he probably will not be able to complete his project and it will still be a work in progress when he dies. It will take another pope or two to carry things forward and to that end he will be appointing cardinals who have the same instincts as him. In addition, he is appointing bishops on a daily basis, and that to will have a gradual effect on the Church over the decades. So, whilst he is experiencing push back from the traditionalists, he has all the tools he needs to effect the change he wants – by appointing cardinals to elect a like minded successor, and appointing bishops who will carry through the project in the local Church. It is the same with the US President – his enduring legacy for decades are the appointments he makes to the US Supreme Court. They have the final say and set the tone for the future, long as he has gone. Good luck to Francis, I say !

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At 11:03am – Absolutely! Cupich, “Nighty night Baby” Tobin, Wilting Gregory, the Great Oaf Dolan, Edwin Dominatrix O’Brien, to name but a few…..

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+ Bishop Pat, an interesting blog today.

Some quick and dirty points, I do not think Pope Benedict was on the side of right-wingers. People who espouse that ideology particular those in the United States claimed him as a totem; they believed he articulated their views.

Yes, it is true that Pope Francis has been more sympathetic to people of a same-sex attraction, however, this is the same papacy that has made it clear that God cannot bless sin. Like everything with Pope Francis, it is a mixed picture.

I absolutely agree with the restrictions on the Latin Mass. While I respect people who wish to attend this expression of the Eucharist, it is but one of many liturgical forms within the church. And the problem is the Latin Mass is expression of a defective ecclesiology creating a church within the church. Everything that is systemically wrong with the Latin mass is eloquently expressed by the shit show that is Silverstream Priory.

Pope Francis has done nothing with the Roman Curia – it is all windowdressing. And in light of how vapid most of the bishops are – if he has given them more “authority” then that is an absolute curse, however, I see no real evidence of this reality.

Cardinal Burke is nuts; he was always nuts, so no great surprises there. He is an ecclesiastical drag artist. Archbishop Viganò, who I used to respect has become nuts. Viganò has reinvented himself as the great saviour and voice of authentic “Catholic truth” who now regularly speaks to American conservatives who are also, nuts. Both these men are now rabid anti-vaxxers. When Burke was in his hospital on a ventilator — who picked up the bill? Anybody who knows anything about medicine in the United States knows a night in hospital is unbelievably expensive unless you have a comprehensive medical insurance, and then that is a privilege only available to those who can afford it. It is rampant hypocrisy of the worst possible kind.

Unlike you Bishop Pat, I am not a fan of Pope Francis, but he is still the Pope, I much preferred the theological soundness of Pope Benedict XVI. But we will see what the next conclave brings…

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Well your post has brought out a load of bitching and back stabbing.
See how these Christians love one another!

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The lace mob hate being chastised which brings about queeny bitchiness which has been demonstrated on here already. The rx Anglican lace crew are the worst and most bitchy. That’s why the C of E were glad to get shut of them.

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9.08 am. Your posts always make me smile. They usually contain the words ‘naughty’ and ‘bold’.

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Well it’s not rocket science who the next Pope will be. It will be Tagle. Francis has been lining him up for ages. He will continue on the work of Francis.

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That’s what I think too.
My only reservation about Tagle is he is 64 but looks 40. I wonder who he sold his soul to!

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Luighi Murphy at 10.50am
It will be ‘mother’ Burke in jest, only joking 😉😜.
Even though I put some few quids on him cos his odds are high enough to make a profit. I hope it might soar to 50/1.
No fat chance re Tagle as I don’t like the look of him. Plethora of words could describe him.
Nice on the outside but inside, he could be an enabler of corrupt and abuse as well. He does cover up well cos no scandals in his country.
To me, Vatican is a business organisation run by gay lavender mafia. They are already fabulously wealthy and why would they ask us for more money via various assortment of collections on Sunday masses such as vocations, Peter pence, poor in Africa et al.
Perhaps they should close down a traddie monastery aka ‘silverstream’ and get their millions.

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Anon at 2.27pm

I like to wind up some posters out there for fun of it. In jest😜🤷‍♂️.

Burke has gone down a lot in my estimation when I saw his comments re irish people. Think he had gone too far this time around.

Photo re Burke in church looks familiar to me, where was it taken? I think it was taken in Ireland,although I could be wrong there.

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What some of the more slapdash atheists (e.g romans) forget is that God intended belief as personal and of course we hope there will be an organisation whose propaganda approximates, which it often doesn’t.

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11:42am
Are ya mad, if our fathers came back and saw the Church under the present incumbent they wouldn’t know where they were. As it’s unrecognizable to they faith they knew ya mad bollox.

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Oh Seamus, honestly! The holy Roman church has no regard to what is Christian or charitable – it’s after power and control.

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When Father Denis Faul died, Tom Mc Guirk wrote about him in a Sunday Newspaper and theorised in the article about how the Roman Catholic Church should proceed… the basic tenet concerned social approach and progress. Mc Guirk in an academic fashion put a scientific structure on Morris West’s book The Shoes of The Fisherman. I don’t think there is anyone who fits what either man would consider necessary among the Roman Hinges at this time. A Kiril does not make it out of the traps to get into one of the most exclusive clubs in the world. When Bergoglio was told in Argentina that Benedict had resigned… I understand he quipped; “ you have no idea what this means.” Funeral Face had a new countenance…..it was a done deal. A few good sound bites….like the Dermot Martin… both loved by the media for their apparent “ liberal “ approach. Not a liberal bone in either of them. Hard cold corporate men.

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You understand “he quipped” Don’t be such an auld fool Bileen to think you know anything about what the former Archbishop of Buenos Aires. Monaghan is right about you. “An absolute simpleton” is how he describes you

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1.27
Once again to you and your friend… thanks for your kind and incisive comments…..you have a big heart.

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1.27: What an astute observation about Mullie, who vo riders himself a giant of a brain. OMG…poor chap.

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1.27…. It now being 16.29….if a person constitutes as you describe, the last thing that person needs is it stated so bluntly… but then empathy is not in your remit or many of your kind who contribute here. My comment is in deadly earnest… as opposed to my enigma which disorientates you and yours so much…… ellipse s ongoing, that is not in earnest!

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Protecting of predators, like Cormac did such a lot (and like the people that George P. was appointed over for such a brief time did such a lot) is valuable to the goons because it makes for pliability. The south-east of England know a great deal about all this, going back to 1966.
Colloquial Italianate jargon “omosessuale” should often be translated “predators” if that is what is meant. In good translating practice, degrees of colloquialism are one of the things that has to be potentially dropped at times in order to keep the main sense central.
Some of those who worked for cardinal emeritus McCarrick have at length thought better of it.

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I am sure mother Burke’s long cape is for when he lets one rip. It can then be shaken to share the odour of sanctity with the sheep.

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@1.04pm I am amazed that you do not know the proper name of the ‘long cape’. Any informed Catholic knows that it is a cappa magna, a magnificent, dignified garment. As for your comment about bodily odours, such filth should not be permitted on this blog. Respect and reverence, please.

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My favorite bible passage is the one where Jesus tells his disciples, ‘All authority on heaven and Earth has been given to me. Therefore go to the ends of the Earth and teach them to bitch about anyone holding a different opinion to you, because that way the Great Commission will never happen.’

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In fact his followers were already so annoying that after he came back from the dead he had to ascend into heaven to get away from them.

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Don’t forget how his mother brought him to England to indicate her preference for the Church of England.

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@1:22: clichéd perhaps, but so spot on in showing up the ridiculous nature of religious beliefs, especially RCC ones, and the alleged basis of their belief framework.
Keep ‘er lit @ 1:15.
My own favourite bit is where disciples are told to be “fishers of men”: ……never mind the women ‘cos they don’t count.
Origins of RCC misogyny perhaps?

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4:30 We will of course defer to your opinion, ‘father’. We know that’s how you like it.

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No@ 4:30! I don’t know Greek. Is a prerequisite in order to be saved by your loving and merciful God? If yes, then what a Gobshite He is, and bigger fool you for believing it!
Your attempted ‘put-down’ is so typical of the superior ontologically changed clerical clique mentality of the RCC. What an absolute laughing stock you’ve all become.

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6.51
Of course Greek is not necessary for salvation. Look at Bella – barely literate in English.
However if you are going to make a point about the language of the text well then, yes, some familiarity with the original language of that text would be advisable.

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It is truly bizarre the way Roman Catholics belong to the church and yet visibly hate it and everyone in it. It leaves one with the sneaking suspicion that they are Calvinists when it comes down to it.

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1.38pm

Yes, it is bewildering. I always say that membership is not compulsory. If membership causes people such misery they should find a more congenial and spiritually nourishing home.

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1.38: This is a nonsensical comment. In 2021 people make up their own minds re: morality, spirituality, relugioys beliefs and philosophy. Some are guided by Church teachings but most enjoy the freedom of conscience. I don’t know of any “hater” of the Church and who still attends. The haters on this blog have long ago abandoned the Church and find their spiritual nourishment on blogs like this!! Imagine.

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Considering it’s supposed to be nonsense you’ve managed to spill more nonsense in reply.
How about you read your reply again and pause to think how other people might see your attitude!

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Was surprised to see mother Burke comments here – Cardinal Raymond Burke’s characterization of the Irish people as “worse than pagans” for voting to legalize marriage equality.

Think he has gone too far this time around.

He wouldn’t be a right fit for the papacy. It would be like going backwards to middle age circa 1300AD.

Don’t like the look of Tagle cos he’s way too nice or is it just me 😉🤔🤔

Found priests who was nice or too nice, for instance, fr Smyth, fr Fortune and Fr grennan plus one from my ex alma Mater school had abused kids cos they were too nice.

Plus they used to have a jeykll and Hyde personality.

My questions re tagle :

1. Is he gay or homosexual?

2. His excellence at covering it up in his home country re clean record.

3. His face doesn’t fit re papacy and ability to generate money for the Vatican.

4.any philliphines here as I or we would be interested to know re tagle.

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Deaf Guy,
Madame Burke has No chance and has long covid.
Cardinal Tagle chances are slim
Cardinal Pietro Parolin is the one to watch

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Anon at 3.48pm

Thanks re your comments. I would prefer an outsider who would stamp out abuses and issue lacaising orders to erring and abusers priests either cardinal or prelates or bishops cos buck stops with them when they didn’t do anything except for letting them carry on.

I would be very very wary re Parolin and his huge role in China deal.

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The vast majority of comments here assume or presume, and sadly the ability to read a comment is lacking!

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4.10: Did my defining you as probably a long ago defector from the Church bite your ass? The prolific comments from repeat commenters on this blog very often indicates their hatred for and abandonment of the church. Upset your atheism, have I? Haters don’t participate in Church life. Why would they? Get real.

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6:43
I know really. Have you heard the way they talk about the gays? The evidence is clear that the more a man hates homosexuality the more aroused he is by images of men. If they were straight they wouldn’t be bothered.

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He has a problem with Bob and Steve. Yet no problem wearing his crotchless chaps at the weekends.

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Worshipping the Pachamama in St Peter’s Basilica and reducing drastically the number of Masses, further turning the basilica into a museum, also accords with old fraud’s wishes.

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Their grand throne in the middle is surrounded by four huge black snakes. I think those went to all their heads.

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