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TRANS MEN UNKNOWINGLY ADMITTED TO PRIESTHOOD AND RELIGIOUS LIFE.

Trans men “unknowingly admitted” to Catholic seminaries, bishops’ committee alleges

The National Catholic Reporter reports that Milwaukee Archpbishop Jerome Listecki, who serves as the chairman of the bishops’ Committee on Canonical Affairs and Church Governance, told the nation’s bishops in a Sept. 22 memo that they might consider “various options” to ensure that only people assigned male at birth are ordained to the Catholic priesthood:

Listecki

In his recent memo, Listecki says his committee had been made aware of “instances where it had been discovered that a woman living under a transgendered identity” had been admitted to a seminary or a religious institute’s house of formation.

In one instance, Listecki wrote, an individual’s “sacramental records had been fraudulently obtained to reflect her new identity. In all instances, nothing in these individuals’ medical or psychological reports had signaled past treatments or pertinent surgeries.”

You might argue that if priests and their congregations see a trans man as a man, that should be good enough for everyone.

Christianity has actually a long history with trans men living as male monks, so it is not as if Catholics cannot cope with trans men in a constructive way. It is just that the Catholic church leaders do not want to.

On the protestant side, trans and nonbinary men and women are becoming more accepted, as proven by Megan Rohrer being ordained bishop of the Evangelical Lutheran Church of America.

Many protestant churches have also, for many years, ordained women. Indeed, researchers argue that  the Catholic Church also ordained female priests all the way up till the 11th century. Gary Macy writes:

A radical change in the definition of ordination during the 11th and 12th centuries not only removed women from the ordained ministry, but also attempted to eradicate any memory of women’s ordination in the past.

So you might also say that the exclusion of trans men is the end result of the exclusion of women, given that these church leaders see trans men as women.

The illustration above is of Saint Marinos, who was assigned female at birth, being led into a male monastery by their father in fifth century Lebanon. This saint  is celebrated on June 18 in the Roman Catholic Church and on other dates in other traditions. Marinos was not ordained as a priest, though.

By the way, I am glad to note that the National Catholic Reporter refers to trans men as trans men. I doubt that this is done by accident.

Note that if a trans man was ordained as a priest in the Catholic Church, that ordination would probably not be considered valid given the current theology of this church.

PAT SAYS

This whole thing is quite interesting.

An archbishop has claimed that some trans men have slipped through into the seminary and religious life.

Are they still there?

Were they ordained?

I once met a priest, who is still in ministry, who told me he had been born with the genitalia of both sexes.

Do we still hold to the conviction that the genetalia you are born with decides what gender and sex you are?

While at the same time the surgeons are changing men into women and men into women.

And does a sacrament, in this case, Holy Orders, only take effect on a male body and not on a female body?

I thought sacraments took effect on the soul?

What do readers think?

112 replies on “TRANS MEN UNKNOWINGLY ADMITTED TO PRIESTHOOD AND RELIGIOUS LIFE.”

Bishop Pat this is concerning. Before ordination to the diaconate, seminarians should undergo a procedure where they sit on a special chair with a hole in the seat. The seminary rector should be tasked of putting his hand up the hole to check whether the candidate has testicles, or doing a visual examination.

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Most seminarians these days are morbidly obese. It would be difficult to establish their gender with their moobs and rolls of fat covering their genitalia…

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The sexual orientation or the way how a person identifies himself there is nothing to do with their weight gain or loss…
There is a qualified staff who normally work for Gov. to identify precisely gays, transgender and paedophile…
You should ask for help instead of locking yourself in that Gay Lobby!!!

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You ask what do readers think, well I always think things can’t get any worse, and you always prove me wrong. You are either born male or female and that’s it. No mater what the tranny’s say it’s all nonsense. I can hear all the woke liberals screaming their tit’s off but who cares it is a fact wither they like it or not, don’t listen to all the shite we have flung at us by the media and weird interest groups. We know what’s right and what’s wrong they are all quite mad as well as bad!

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You’re being naughty with this question because you know the catlicks will say only a big butch hairy man can be ordained and everyone else will say meh. 😂
It would kinda help the catlicks if they didn’t select priests solely on the basis of being male and completely ignore the rest of their suitability though!

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Having a “bodily defect”, including “abnormal” genitals, is an impediment to ordination in the RC and Orthodox churches. If a trans man tricks himself into being ordained, the ordination is invalid. The evidence for women priests in the RC church before the 11th century doesn’t exist, but if you need to believe in the faries then fairies there will be.

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4.38
Where is your evidence for the bizarre claim about a bodily defect? Would you include baldness? What about Ledwith and Neary? Deafness? Profoundly deaf people have been ordained.
Your sweeping statement about “Orthodox Churches” as if they were a homogenous group is curious.

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Fascinating in all sorts of ways! TBH it’s not much more bizarre than life in most modern monasteries. 😀

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Is that Marina with a big blonde wig and tight skirt on a bike. Cycling with an elderly married man friend.

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FFS, they ordained Amy, and he’s a big girl’s blouse ! I honestly don’t know what all the fuss is about. The RCC needs to stop obsessing about people and how they identify themselves and live their lives and whom they love. Only when it gives up that obsessive focus will it move on to worrying about much more important things such as justice, fairness, poverty, peace, transparency, honesty, integrity….. I have just given up listening to what our priests and bishops say, and make my on informed, in conscience, decisions myself, and I encourage others to do so. The RCC is so yesterday, and continues to become increasingly irrelevant to many of us. This nonsense about trans people and whether they can be priests and ministers is another yawn for many of us, and is just a ridiculous avoidance by the RCC. When will our priests and bishops wake up to what truly is going on and what really is important ? If they don’t do so soon, then they will become not just an endangered species ,as they are now, but an extinct. one ! Wise up, guys !

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Of course God can make a trans man or woman anything he likes, and the fact Romans don’t think so just mean they want to limit him. They would rather take on kiddy fiddlers to make sure they’ll help cover up the church’s crimes.

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I have sympathy for those people who feel trapped in their bodies. It’s a pity that people cannot feel comfortable in society with the body that they were born with.
I’m respectful of the trans community. I disagree with the treatment they take and am more in favour of a society where people like that are comfortable in the body they were born with in respect of the gender they identify with.
Women should be ordained to the deaconite and the priesthood in my own humble opinion. Mary Magdalene was wronged for centuries. Her prominence in the gospels cannot be ignored forever.

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Seamus it’s disgraceful that these tranny’s can’t or won’t accept the gender they were born with, it’s an insult to Almighty God who made them. St. Mary Magdalene pray for us.

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Times has changed… You don’t need to remain trapped, but live in the fullest the life you wished upon the star…
But you can do nothing if your own mother give you hater instead of love and choose for you the wrong path simply to avoid the judgement and prejudice and gossips…
It is your own life… Live it in the way you always dreamed of…
You need courage and determination and dignity and principles… If you have those virtues and God by your side free yourself…

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Christianity will be overtaken by Islam, even in Europe, in the next few decades. It is only a matter of time, and the remorseless logic of mathematics. Christians / white / European / indigenous birthrates have plummeted over the last few decades, whilst immigration has grown and with it immigrant birthrates. You only need a couple of generations of low birthrate on the part of the the indigenous population, and a high birth rate for a few generations in the immigrant population, and the balance is irrevocably tipped. In Britain, the largest group of immigrants are those from the Indian sub-continent, and of particular note those of Pakistani Muslim origin. Hindus / Sikhs etc are by and large benign, the former interested only in making money, the latter in thinking of themselves as militaristic but in reality just spending their time celebrating festivals and eating. It is the Muslims that we need to be concerned about. They have at their heart a crusading drive and a belief that if you are not a Muslim then you do not count. There is an agenda, and where they are they want it to be a Muslim culture and country. Their birthrate is part of that agenda. So, we may obsess about the demise of the RCC and Christian culture. But, we should be looking very closely at what is to come. It is not too extreme to say that our great grandchildren will probably live in a Muslim Caliphate. Where do I put the responsibility for this inevitability ? With past governments of all our countries who have recklessly allowed immigration without responsibility and obligation on the part of those who come to new countries to become proper and full citizens of those countries. One danger is that the indigenous population will wake up too late to this reality, and react in frustration and anger, and that will spell trouble for all concerned. Is it too late for responsible people to intervene, from all sides, and make sure that this is managed responsibly, or are we just going to let it take its course and put up with the dangerous, violent and unpredictable consequences ? I expect it will be the latter. Sadly. So, goodbye RCC, but also goodbye Christian culture.

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Swap round the words Muslim and Christian in this comment for comparison and the fact you are a Nazi becomes clear.

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@9.13 You are spot on, it’s already happening in the US and UK, not racist, just stating a fact.

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9.13 am anon
You are 100 percent accurate in your analysis. For a few decades now European countries have been having children 1 or 2 at a time, or some not at all. Where as Muslims have been having children 4,6,8 at a time. They are increasing whereas we are decreasing. Past governments are to blame. More the fool who cannot see this.
IT IS AS PLAIN AS DAYLIGHT!

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Another Nazi. Your comment is almost directly taken from Hitler’s speeches – I suggest you read them. You’re not bothered in a responsible way about population you just hate Muslims and/or are racist and want them to have fatal showers.

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I am the oldest of 17. My mum and dad did their bit to stop the caliphate 😉

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Does nobody read history? So let’s make a few changes to Betty’s comment:
‘You are 100 percent accurate in your analysis. For a few decades now European countries have been having children 1 or 2 at a time, or some not at all. Where as Jews have been having children 4,6,8 at a time. They are increasing whereas we are decreasing. Past governments are to blame. More the fool who cannot see this.
IT IS AS PLAIN AS DAYLIGHT!’
The hint is in the word European. And when you notice the change I made you have the same argument the Nazis made.
You’re fascists pure and simple.

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Don’t fool yourself…
“Black lives matter!!!”???
Simply a slogan!!! The world was, is and always will be racist…
And not only white, the black are the worst racist of all…
As they are Irish towards English…
They do live in peace but deep in their bones they shall never forget:” No black! No dogs! No Irish!”
And we can’t change the history… Simply accept and move forward…

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Oh and here’s a quote from Hitler’s Mein Kampf about the Jews, expressing the same hatred you all do towards the Moslems:
‘Now begins the great last revolution. In gaining political power the Jew casts off the few cloaks that he still wears. The democratic peoples Jew becomes the blood-Jew and tyrant over peoples. In a few years he tries to exterminate the national intelligentsia and by robbing the peoples of their natural intellectual leadership makes them ripe for the slaves lot of permanent subjugation.’
You are expressing the ideas which led to the holocaust. Change my mind.

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nice prayer

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By the way who heard the God’s Call this time???
Definitely his father, you made the decision on the behalf of his son to save the father’s honour and reward his fatherhood pride!!!
As I said before, sometimes are your mothers and sometimes are your fathers who heard that laugh stock for generations to come knowing as: ” God’s Call!!!!”

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No they were busy sheltering Jewish refugees from being murdered by people like you.

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3:51 Nah. I don’t drink, have a beard and am not a tramp. We can all tell why you’re frightened.

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Focus on current hot potatoes like gender ideology, sexual ethics, etc, tends to obscure the real issue: how does a religion born in a pre-scientific time deal with the modem world and all the developments since their collection of ancient near eastern myths was put together. I am certain that the answer is not to treat these myths as if they are scientific or batten down the hatches as Rome did in the modernist crisis.
I think it is possible to distil a collection of principles from tradition and apply them to modern life, but most religious people don’t seem to have an appetite for this.

In the situation here I can’t see a good reason why women wouldn’t be ordained so although I don’t understand the transgender experience I would say leave them be.

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Amazing that commenters so far all seem to have so liberal a view of themselves and about life that morality is non existent: be who or what you want to be: do what you desire for yourself: individualism is rampant: the only reference point for many us their own conscience where “my priorities” are paramount. Of course the issue of sexual gender/identity and all related issues is used as a cause for mockery, sneering and by way of denigrating others, priests particularly.

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9.02: I have no such desire to impose any wirld view on anyone. While I have many questions to ask about sexual gender/identity and the ethics/morality of such issues, I cannot impose my expectations on anyine else. But we do need to ask very legitimate questions. Yes, I personally will always understand the church’s moral teachings but I cannot impose such on ithers. We all need to have some moral, ethical and philosophical foundations in making decisions about sexual identity, gender and all related issues. Each of us individually must realise that there are consequences for our decisions.

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12:52. What a lie. If you didn’t want to impose your own world view you wouldn’t sneer at other people’s as you did at 9:57.
Life is hard, but so much harder when you’re stupid.

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Pat has Stephen Wilson agreed to meet you and share sensitive information with you in a neutral location.

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10.06
You have a better chance on Euromillions than Stephen Wilson meeting Bishop Pat.
If he does he will be placed on gardening leave.

Can you not give up stalking Stephen.

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3.39: Think you are all confused. You obviously do not have the capacity to understand nuance in narratives. Neither do you seem to know the difference between expressing observations and sneering. I wouldn’t be the only commentator to observe the rampant individualism and liberalism in our society!! Read the papers!! I don’t agree with much that is espoused by modernism but I never impose my views on others. Unless you can make a more enlightened comment with substance, desist from responding in a vacuous manner. TRUTH sometimes hurts, so perhaps my comments touched a nerve in you!!

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Boris plans to introduce Latin into English Schools so the Latin Mass Brigade maybe happy.
Thank God for the Devolved nations as it will NOT be happing in Wales, Scotland or Northern Ireland

Keir has told him to “Carpe Diem – seize the day.”

Can someone inform Boris it will NOT be happening in the Roman Catholic Church under this Pontificate or Pope Francis successor and he will be kicking up the daisy’s

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3.37
No Shillings as yet however he has announce Pounds and ounces are coming back 2022.
Taking us back to the old Imperial system however he is dreaming as business cannot afford the change.
The Latin Brigade will love it as they can ask for a 1/4 of Mint Imperial when we ask for 100 Grams.

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Ould Gossip Alert @12:31pm
I’m very pleased to inform you that The Latin Mass is celebrated IN ALL the devolved countries you cretin. And it will always be celebrated even long after you’re kicking up the daisy’s in Hawkhill!

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A particularly gross one, peeing in the sink. I’ll bet the other Redemptorists all swear blind they had no idea anything was going on, despite him having a bedroom full of boys smoking weed. WTF.

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1.52
There is no excuse for an abhorrent treatment of the Children or Vulnerable Adults.
He is not a Diocesan priest although that does not matter he should not be allowed back out of Jail.
I hope the victims take the Redemptorists to the cleaner and back.
He would not pass safeguarding anyone interested in Safeguarding join Scotland on Saturday In God’s Image V2
https://twitter.com/BishopsScotland/status/1443137937068146692
Cardinal Sean O’Malley

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They make a point of commenting that a vaccinated Cardinal died of the virus but Old Mother Burke didn’t, thereby proving that
They don’t understand coronavirus.
They don’t understand how vaccines work.
They don’t understand that the only remedies which claim 100% effectiveness are scam.
And
People who get health advice from religious websites and nuns are idiots, and those who repeat this advice are serial killers.

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5:55pm
https://www.complicitclergy.com/2021/09/24/what-will-francis-say-now-vaccinated-cardinal-dies-from-covid-19/
“Cardinal Jorge Urosa Savino, 79, the former Archbishop of Caracas, Venezuela, died from Covid-19 on September 23.
Urtosa was admitted to intensive care at the end of August. La Cigüeña De La Torre (InfoVaticana.com, September 23) calls him “a remarkable cardinal although Francis didn’t like him.”
Francis sent Urosa into early retirement at 76, in stark contrast to his friends whom he keeps in office until they are almost 80.
On his flight from Bratislava to Rome, Francis, a Covid legalist, made fun of Cardinal Burke (“irony of fate”) calling him a “negationist” because Burke was not “vaccinated” and contracted Covid-19.
The question now is how Gossip Francis will explain the Covid death of a “vaccinated” cardinal.”
https://gloria.tv/post/ZeLmhTAFBDaA4DF87f8EnJSX6

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8:01pm & 8:04 pm & 5:55pm. Your comments are NOT to be taken seriously. Ignorance is bliss which the “woke brigade” has in abundance.😝 God bless. Pax! 🙏

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8:12
Nah. There are no treatment for covid at present.
The evidence is the vaccine is always less risky than the virus.
If you want I can give you sensible links to read including ones with discussion with vaccine sceptics.
BTW if you’re taking horse dewormer please keep on if you’re a man because anecdotally it makes men sterile.

The history will say the fatal virus continued to mutate because dangerous fools refused vaccine and lockdown and it was only brought into control by government making precautions enforceable by law.

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7:01 Can I suggest you read up how vaccines work? You’ve proved my point perfectly. No vaccine proponent will tell you a vaccine will guarantee you won’t get the illness.
This is how natural selection works. And I’m not even joking.

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Oh and there is no reason Francis would explain the Cardinals death – he’s a religious leader and my point was that religious leaders should butt out of medicine.

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@ 5:55 pm You are on the wrong side of history.
https://www.wnd.com/2021/09/4948785/
‘Crimes against humanity’: Thousands of physicians condemn COVID policymakers
Declaration issued after global summit of health experts in Rome.
By Art Moore
Published September 27, 2021
“More than 4,000 scientists and physicians from around the world have signed a declaration condemning public policy makers of “crimes against humanity” for restricting life-saving treatments and quashing debate and scientific inquiry.”
“The health-care professionals lamented that a “one size fits all” approach to mitigation and treatment have resulted in “needless illness and death.”
“Dr. Robert Malone, the inventor of the mRNA vaccine technology in the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines, read the declaration at the Rome conference. He contends the COVID vaccines should not be administered universally but should target the most vulnerable, because the shots pose both known and unknown risks for the healthy that outweigh potential benefits”.

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Pat at 8:42 Yes it’s really dangerous, and especially as some health professionals have bought into their nonsense. Once services stop being inundated with covid people will start getting struck off I’m sure.
Also people are taking advice from homeopathy and other scam therapies that really have no idea about anything.
I mean they treat a feeling of separation with pieces from the Berlin Wall!

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Stephen is a handsome young man I can see why they want to keep him all to themselves, but not as hot as Mulvihill

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8:47. Yeah; so what would Dr. Robert Malone or Dr. Mike Yeadon or Dr. Zev Zelenko or Dr. Peter McCullough or hundreds of other world leading highly respected reputable medical practitioners/ academics know, all of which are not anti- vaccine? Dr. Yeadon and Dr Malone worked or work in the vaccine industry. They are NOT anti-vaccine.

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Oooh interesting.
Personally I think an organization should be avoided whose staff cause so much trauma they have to set up a redress scheme.

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If the churches really wanted to be useful members of society they’d start paying taxes instead of pretending to be charities. 🤣

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7:20 it merely demonstrates how pathetic the cover up arguments for the church are.
Good of you to admit what we all knew, that the church is your god and the hierarchy can do no wrong.
WHAT ABOUT THE RAPED NUNS?

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4:58pm: Only if you consider the State is god and social workers can do nooo wrong. 😂 Enter by the narrow gate. 😇

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2.38
The Irish Bishop’s are so behind however it is a step in the right direction of travel.
It should be for Child Abuse and Vulnerable Adults.
All safeguarding World Wide is the Protection of Children and Vulnerable Adults.

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My favorite bible passage is the one where Jesus says to the dinosaur, ‘Shoo, get out of it, you’re spoiling the plot.’

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LOL!
We had difficulty dancing on the ark though because of the lack of space.
3:40

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And my favourites, in relation to all this debating about gender issues and clerics unable to get married, or have a wank, are in Deuteronomy 23.
A sample:
” No one who has been emasculated by crushing or cutting may enter the assembly of the Lord…..
“No one born of a forbidden marriage nor any of his descendents even to the 10th generation may enter the assembly of the Lord……
“If one of your men is unclean because of a nocturnal emission, he is to go outside the camp and stay there……

Oh I do love Holy Scripture!

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It’s hard to believe that it’s 42 years to the day since St John Paul arrived in Dublin to bless our nation with the first ever papal visit to Ireland.

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Book by Robert Harris called ‘conclave’.
Its a fiction story based on cardinal and the issue of transgender. Before he became a Pope.
Interesting cos I read it few years ago before issue of transgender came to the fore now.
Islam is on the rise in Europe which isn’t surprising cos they are producing high numbers of children than Catholics or protestant. France, UK,
and Holland not sure re Sweden and Norway.
Same thing is happening in NI where Catholic families are producing more kids than protestants.
Its all about numbers. In 20 or 30 years time, Europe including UK would have a dominant Muslim population. That said, it might turn into a Muslim government in the process.

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Dom Dick Purcell gracing the RTE screens again this evening on the Six One News. The man’s obsession with notoriety is indeed significant. Just letting people know that the chances of being jumped on in the Boilerhouse by a Randy monk tonight has reduced by 50%.

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Was Abbot Richard on the news from Mount Melleray or Roscrea? His friend Seamus Hennessy is great at PR.

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The same Seamus Hennessy who walked the holy corridors of Maynooth so many years ago ?

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Noticed while doing some research that Paul Prior has removed nearly all trace of himself from the internet, including 16 of your blogs Pat. 🤔🤔🤔

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But we all still know about all his antics. People have long memories and I’ve not finished blogging about him either.

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Yes she did. Her doppelgängerhttps://www.ncregister.com/news/mother-angelica-1923-2016-hev3kbs4

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