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CATHOLIC CHURCH TREATS WOMEN LIKE THE TALIBAN DO – LIMERICK PP.

ROY DONOVAN

The head honcho of the Irish Association of Catholic Priests, Roy Donovan, a Limerick PP, says that the RCC treats women like the Taliban do.

He made this claim on the Irish Independent and on Joe Duffy’ RTE’s LIVELINE.

There is no greater critic of the RCC on the island of Ireland than myself.

But is it really accurate to equate the current RCC and the Taliban?

Certainly in medieval times the RCC was a torturing and murdering institution.

But in these days it does not, thank God, have the right to torture and murder. If it did I would have been decapitated years ago.

The current Taliban kills men, women and children at will.

It throws gay people off the top of high buildings.

It bans women from working andcattending universities.

WOMEN AND THE RCC:

The current RCC bans women from the episcopacy, the priesthood and the diaconate.

It claims it does not have the power to change this.

I do not accept that.

There are two camps within the church opposed to the ordination of women:

1. The misogynist popes, bishoos, priests and laity.

2. Popes, bishops, priests and laity who sincerely believe that this is not the will of God, expressed through Jesus in calling men.

MY EXPERIENCE:

I have only ordained one woman – Frances Meigh who I ordained in 1998 – 23 years ago.

1998

Mother Frances is now a fairly healthy 90 and continues to be a priest, an artist and an iconographer.

I have not been asked to ordain another woman since.

But I have witnessed women clergy of other churches being just as clerical as men. That put me off a lot.

And the US bishop Mary Meehan visited me for Mass I was very disturbed a day later when I discovered she had simply left the post consecration wine in the chalice.

I found that astoundingly ignorant and disrespectful.

This is the problem with a lot of these new spring up Catholic “churches” ordaining people with no proper theology and training

OH AND ROY !

Have a shave !

114 replies on “CATHOLIC CHURCH TREATS WOMEN LIKE THE TALIBAN DO – LIMERICK PP.”

Pat, I am glad you disagree with Fr. Roy. Personally I believe he and Fr. Joe McDonald were OTT on Liveline. I think they have good arguments to make but their intemperate and extremist language lessened the strength of their opinions. Also, I found Fr. Roy’s reference to “poor calibre deacons” to be very offensive, ignorant and hurtful. He was rude and condescending towards the presence of deacons. Fr. Joe threatened to be gone – to tender his resignation to Aechbishop Farrell – in 6 months if he doesn’t witness significant and radical commitment towards women and the lay faithful with the promised upcoming synod!! Poor Roy and Joe should sit together over cups of tea and draw up rescue plans for the Church. Perhaps they might join forces and begin a new movement because they spend most of their air time throwing cold water on every initiative proposed by any priest or bishop. I agree with women deacons and priests and have always believed that women should have equity of responsibility, ministry and leadership within the Church alongside some powerful women religious. You don’t convince others by going OTT on national radio. The ACP does not represent a huge majority of priests. I really thought the attitude of both clerics today was arrogant and rude, especially towards the Deacon Frank who was on liveline too. Roy needs to apologise to all Deacons for his gratuitous insult. He didn’t exactly excel in cleverness himself! Fr. Joe is quickly burning himself out in his frequent outbursts on radio..There are serious issues that need addressing quickly in the Church but to use the analogy of the Taliban was completely wrong and unjustified. Roy should read the latest Taliban policies re: women and gay people.

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Fr Joe won’t leave. As an ex-Christian Brother, ex-priest in modern Ireland he would be more or less unemployable. The days of unqualifed ex-priests walking into jobs as teachers, seminary librarians and counsellors are long over. Joe won’t give up the free house.

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Yes,you are right, + Pat…..Roy does need to have a good wash and brush up and sort out his stubble. Not a good look. It’s a good argument for him to have a wife / partner to remind him to brush himself up before leaving the house ! As to the substance, while the wilder and more out of the way excesses of the Taliban against women and many other groups of people is not replicated in the RCC, some of the underlying attitudes that enable these discriminations and worse do exist in the RCC. The RCC world view and understanding of gender, sexuality, sex, relationships etc. is part of a frame of mind that does discriminate against certain groups of people, and in particular women. I simply do not see that the Church does not have the authority to order its affairs and change its behaviour because the current status quo is set in stone from the beginning of the Church. That is arrant nonsense. The Church has changed so many things over the centuries. If it has the authority of Christ, then it can change things on behalf of Christ if it wants to. There continues to be ingrained discrimination against women in the RCC, which is increasingly unacceptable to a majority of people in the Church, mostly lay people. The RCC needs to listen to them as well. The mind of God is expressed through the faithful as well. Change to celibacy, ordination of married men, and of women, as well as a radical rethink of sexuality and sexual morality is something that is long overdue in the RCC. If they don’t respond, they will diminish, even go extinct. The world, and its people, has moved on.

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Big Mac needs to control his voracious appetite. How much parish money does he spend on food each week?

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They used to say that a healthy appetite was a sign that a seminarian had a vocation. On that basis, Joe should be the Pope.

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Roy and Joe clearly see priesthood and the diaconate in terms of power, status and the holding of office, which reflects the clericalist mindset of the ACP.

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Let’s see if Joe goes- will he stand over it!
Where is the Task Force?
It’ll be interesting to see how many gather in the Cathedrals next Sunday to start the Synodal journey….

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The ACP crowd are always calling for new structures/new models. It’s another case of “It’s for thee, but not for me”. Why don’t the ACP priests show a good example and put their money where their mouth is? Drop the outmoded title “Fr”; sell the parochial houses or give them to the homeless/refugees; become worker priests who pay their own way; drop vestments (even the polyester ones) and their throne-like seats in modernised churches.
The chances of them doing any of that? No chance at all.

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She left the “post consecration wine in the chalice” you say +Pat.
So was it wine, or an “abandoned almighty God” she left?
Perhaps your own choice of words betrays the idiocy of RCC faith belief concerning transubstantiation?

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I believe that she left the blood of Christ, under the appearance of wine, in the chalice.

Transubstantiation is a philosophical attempt at explaining a mystery.

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AHA +Pat. We’re back to the ” mysterious” clerical answers …….to the questioning of all the ridiculous beliefs put forward: the great ‘get-out’ of jail “trump” card; as insubstantial as its ex POTUS namesake.
You’re welcome to your beliefs, and any other delusions which try to substantiate clerical exceptionalism. Common sense and logic obviously doesn’t come into it, quite apart from all the biblical gobbledygook origins for Christian beliefs.

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KK, I totally respect your views.

My beliefs are sincere and based on the experiences of my heart rather than my head.

I do not regard clerical exceptionalism as good or healthy.

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2:14pm
I don’t think you need to worry that it was The Precious Blood, this woman could not possibly confect the transubstantiation as she was not a priest, no matter what any mad freethinker say!

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8.47. ” Could not CONFECT the transubstantiation ” you say!
Good choice of word. I always thought of confectionery as sweeties. So your clergy make sweeties for the faithful?
That explains a lot.
So good of you to clarify.

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Don’t worry Patsy there is no such thing as a woman priest. so there is no way any liquid she left was The Most Precious Blood. Transubstantiation can only be confected by a legitimately ordained priest using matter,form, and intention as The Church requires.

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He is so wrong about this. Whether you agree with them or not, what the Taliban does is underpinned by an ideology, whereas what the church does is underpinned by the pursuit of a cushy life and Grindr pickups for the clergy.

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@11:11: What an amazingly positive contribution you make to intelligent debate!
Thank you

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No.
But she did not like the fact that I let the BBC use the church for filming.
The fee I got for this went to the church heating account.

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Liturgy gets high-jacked by special interest groups. Very telling that Mary Meehan showed no interest or respect for the sacrament she had claimed to celebrate. I recall something similar at a ghastly conference at London Colney some thirty years back on making liturgy “relevant”. Needless to say the Mass was a late night affair, and I was horrified to see the next morning that the fragments of crispy loaf used in the consecration had been left on a tray on the coffee table which had doubled as an altar. However, not surprised to learn shortly afterwards that the celebrant had eloped with his nun assistant.

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@1:04: So you were “horrified ” at that left over loaf. The same question I put above to +Pat @ 9.55 applies. Was “God” abandoned on the coffee table?
Perhaps the elopment of that priest shows the depth of his commitment to the mysterious rigmarole of RCC religious observances.
And how many outwardly observant priests know, but would not admit, that it’s all a smoke and mirrors charade?

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1.11
Scholastic sacramental theology distinguishes between the res (the reality which is signified, in the case of the Eucharist, the body and blood of the Lord) on the one hand, and On the other the sacramentum (the sacred signs (bread and wine) which convey the res. When the signs are consumed by digestion God is not consumed or diminished in any way. Though the signs may be abused the res is not.

In this instance, though the signs were likely abandoned, God was not abandoned.

That is basic sacramental theology.https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/20659595.pdf

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Shure that’s grand of you @ 3pm to talk a lot of ordure with conjured up clerical terminology.
Waffle away dear fellow. Most of us outside the clerical cocuun bollix simply laugh at your tautological concepts.

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“The current RCC bans women from the episcopacy, the priesthood and the diaconate.”

It also bans gays too, mind. Not that you would know.

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Here is a typical TBM (Traditional Boomer Mass) that ACP priests “preside” at:

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Is that Bishop Campbell, Emeritus of Lancaster showing us a few moves he learned in Larne dancehalls as a youth?

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Let's have some uniformity, boys and girls, however; that doesn't mean let's have the same hymns and songs of worship, over and over xsays:

Why does it matter if people sing in worship and awe of God, while standing still, singing from a hymn book, “Hymns Old and New: with Supliments,” Or, whether they put some rhythm into it?
Catholicity
Liturgical worship is a church service that follows a Set pattern of prayers and readings, usually found in a printed book. Christians who participate in liturgical services may feel connected to other worshippers as they are following the same traditions.
PSALM 150
PRAISE the Lord.
Praise God in his sanctuary;
praise him in his mighty heavens.
Praise him for his acts of power;
praise him for his surpassing greatness.(E)
Praise him with the sounding of the trumpet,
praise him with the harp and lyre,
praise him with timbrel and dancing,
praise him with the strings(I) and pipe,(J)
praise him with the clash of cymbals,
praise him with resounding cymbals.
Let everything that has breath praise the Lord.
Praise the Lord.

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There is one major difference between the Taliban and the Irish church which is a positive for the church. They have largely abandoned their mission and any idea of conversion. We see it on here when commenters tell people wanting a sensible discussion that they would be happier as Anglicans. Not catechising the people so nobody believes in transubstantiation and even the pope made a major mistake about the nature of Christ, are all part of the same approach. Actually helping people leave the church and retreating to the ghetto mentality, helps it towards its vocation of extinction and can only be positive for society.

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Big Fr Joe likes the sound of his own voice. His belligerent tone and ‘threat’ of resignation undermines his arguments. He has valid points to make, but more importantly he has the authority to implement local change in Celbridge. Here, we find him dictatorial and insensitive opinionated beyond belief. In fact, the Taliban comes to mind in his regard. “Physician heal thyself”

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1.31: So true about Fr. Mc. I doubt if he will “leave”..as he has vowed to do if his vision is not taken on board. The arguments he and Fr. Roy make have validity but I agree that their bullish and arrogant approach damages the essence of their narratives. When the bigger picture is very broken, let’s work with the small frame of the “parish” to initiate our vision. Sometimes we as priests, while having a sense of passion for radical change and renewal, our impatience and our disappointments can turn us into ad nauseam, unbearable critics. I think these two guys, Joe and Roy are in this zone….all others are completely wrong….

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A most unlikely Apologist Bishop Buckley. By the unusual logic of your thesis, might it be implied from the fact that you have “ ordained “ only one woman, that God is not calling them to that “ state?” 😂😀 You are after all valid but illicit…. If one is into that kind of thing.

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Never had a scintilla of regard for the Association of Catholic Priests. The Bishops are kinder: and that is saying something from my world view. I am aware of “ priests “ they had no interest in helping. I expect a waterfall…. Waterfalls are dangerous to swim in….

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If Bergoglio was to “ translate “ Bishop Buckley to the See Of Down and Connor, and Bishop Buckley was to bury the hatchet with Father Dallat, there might be some evidence of the Divine Presence. I won’t hold my breath. Everything is personal as Denis Faul put it…

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I would be more than happy to bury the hatchet with Father Dallat but I would like him to have a greater respect for ladies.

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William, those Loughinisland ladies are very well able to speak as and when necessary. If he steps out of line, ….just once: ……’twill be enough.
Most locals know his “background ” by now. The local grapevine is very efficient, and many a “secret” is shared at O’Toole’s.

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The Ladies are well able to speak….. I am not sure over the age of 21 anybody is able to indict the volition of oneself or another. I remember Dallat….

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I think those ladies are more than capable of speaking for themselves.

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Actually, Bill, in my experience they are not. In many cases they are broken and paralysed by their experience.

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Mullvihill: I just wish you’d either shut up, or at least write something intelligible. All your “musings” trying to appear knowledgeable are a continual nuisance to scroll past. And there’s far too much of it too. Pain in the arse stuff!

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Denis Faul was a frequent critic of the Provos but a frequent visitor to Gough Barracks. If you need proof Fr Mulvihill ask British Intelligence. I doubt you will get anywhere.

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7.18
Don’t expect respect from you….but there are only 3 L’s in Mulvihill !

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3.49
He was not. Period. William Conway came under extreme pressure ‘ to do’ with him. To no avail. Faul was nobodies man but himself s! Bara Elohim….

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Mgr Peter Smith former Chancellor of Glasgow, RIP
The gatekeeper of the late Cardinal Winning and a man who knew where all the skeletons were hidden.

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Mungo’s Mammy.
25 years as Chancellor and Philip Tartaglia knifed him in one go and brought in his three Paul’s.
1. is married now to his housekeeper, Paul 2 has a partner and hosts the daisy Chain nights in the Southside and 3. is just a brown nose licker.
the Daisy chain funeral director is NOT officiating at Monsignor Peter’s funeral.
Philip did not like the TRUTH from Peter.
btw he was also the gatekeeper for Mario for 10 years
Funeral @ St. Pauls 23rd October

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@5.54pm. It is well known that the British Secret Service used Fr Faul as an informant. Who else did they use that we don’t know about within clergy ranks? I know they got short shrift from you Fr Buckley. A Shinner in West Belfast told me over a beer you weren’t known to be in that crew.

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Fr Faul was always giving off about the IRA but running to report them to the RUC. He was the classic Brit spy. Who else is doing it?

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The perfect spy. Everyone knows it. The British know about it. He was the Hero to the Hunger Strikes (alleged) but telling the same confessions to MI5 and MI6 about what the Hunger Strikers told him.

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I think and believe that our world has changed so much: it’s a constant evolution of scientific thought, philosophical insights, new thinking on human origin, psychological consciousness and new theological realities (yes!) – all of which have undermined the cogency and intellectual validity of religious faith in general. The Catholic church, while initiating and inspiring great traditions of teachings, philosophy, theology, scientific and medical research, education, art, music and literature, it somehow cannot escape the grip of its history and tradition and its well argued raison d’etre. We need not feel threatened if we are called to embrace necessary changes which resonate with the true essence of the Gospels. There are, thankfully, wonderfully radical Catholics who effect change for the betterment and well being of humanity and for their communities. Interestingly when we want an example of what we believe the “essence” of the gospel of Jesus is, we look, not so much to the great “opinionated”, constantly critiquing, but to those who are gathering the poor, the homeless, the outcast, the excluded and disenfranchised into a sense of home and belonging (Br. Kevin, St. v de Paul, Sr. Stan, Fr. McVerry, Simon, ALINE, Alice Leahy Tryst..) and who restore dignity to all whom they meet. There is a danger that we intellectualise the following of Christ through sticking to tradition, heavy ecclesiology and theology that we forget the spirituality of being a follower of Jesus. Yes, we urgently require a new aggiornamento but only if it is open enough to recognise the dignity of all people of God and heralds a new dawn for women and men to be equal in service, ability, giftedness and leadership. The Spirit of God is silenced too much by the loud, unrestrained negative voices of criticism. I do however dream, pray and wish for more humane, just and compassionate structures where we can all feel at home in The Church…and know that change is a friend to embrace not an enemy.

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Bishop Heskett, formerly priest of Our Lady of the Anunciation at Bishop Eton Monastery and St. Mary's R.C. church, Woolton, Childwall, Liverpool -- Liverpool Echo, October 2021: Covering up of child clerical abusesays:

Then why did he move him in the first place? And so, so far away! If Bishop Heskett just “moved” him for no great reason, then that’s not conceivable to me. Heskett was more than likely, certainly, covering up – in my opinion!
Are not Bishops line Heskett, and others, not adept at covering up? The endless investigations, reports and criminal convictions would suggest the answer is YES!
Bishop Eton and St Mary’s parishes, Woolton, Liverpool.

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Crackpots, retired thespian Bishops and ill-begotten "clerical"/"medicals" (including: corrupt para-legals and Police employees!) 🙈 🙉 🙊 Xsays:

Larry the informant got arrested just the other day in the Liverpoolarea. He was foaming at the mouth and shouting obscenities about the vicinity. He smashed up his phone and his mum, Margy, ended up calling the Police to get shut of him. How very sensible, indeed!
— D J BoBo Circus · Enjoy, peoples, dears etc! .https://youtu.be/OAWENaf_eCQ

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…. And to be clear….. Patrick Buckley is a very good man….. though my communication with him is by this blog…. I communicate with “ The Borg” in prayer !!

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3.34
That is an outrageous comment and has no place on this site. I am surprised the moderator allowed it.

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There is a problem. They aforementioned are not my contribution s. I do not speak of myself in such categories. There is now a problem on this site. If not corrected, I shall disengage entirely. The last few comment s are not mine .

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Roy Donovan is an object of your sexual envy…… and anyone who thinks of his not kosher including Pat.

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I have not commented on Roy at all . At all .
My word is as as good ?

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Joe won’t leave – he hasn’t the bottle!
He’s being populist targeting Farrell- who has pinned his hope on the Task Force- which is delayed. Apparently internal issues among the TF committee- some want a real report- some clergy are trying to water it down…. As for the silent synod will Joe & Roy get involved?

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Priests like this spend so much of their time going on about having women and laity in general more involved but they would be the first to subtly resist such a move in practice because they would feel threatened. Their superficiality is summed up in the worn out slogans which usually disregard the finer points of theology and common sense. Of course that doesn’t matter provided there’s a headline or two. I think it’s time Fr Trendy and companions earned the illustrious title of pastor emeritus.

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Well, yes, the ACP thinks that all the big changes should come not today, but tomorrow. The existing structures will do for our day, as that deeply cynical icebox Bishop Joe Duffy put it.
The likes of Joe, Ray and Tony Flannery more or less seek the abolition of the priesthood, but won’t deny themselves the status and lifestyle it gives them. It will do for their day.

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Slightly off topic, and I do apologise, but in recent weeks I’ve heard reference to the late fr Drury of maynooth being referred to as Irelands McCarrick. I know that the current ‘president’ Fanny Mullaney was very much a ‘fan’ of old Kitty Drury.

It is obvious that Kitty was as camp as knickers.
It is obvious that Fanny is as camp as knickers and is quite bitchy to seminary students. In a safeguarding context, this makes them vulnerable adults.

Was there ever any complaints/concerns raised about Drury? If so what, if any, action was taken,? Did maynooth try to pawn it off on meath diocese (kitty was a priest of meath diocese), did meath try to pawn it off on maynooth?

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Bill, This blog has not bedn hacked.

In posting a comment anyone can use the name William Mulvihill.

If you want you and I can agree a code that indicates its really you.

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The Treaty padre wasn’t using the language of unity. The ministry of catechist is open to to both men and women. Women can also be formally installed in the church as lectors and acolytes. These are positive changes. Rome wasn’t built in a day.

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Comparing the RCC with the Taliban is probably too extreme, but the fact remains women are mostly excluded.

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Even if women could become priests, why would any woman join a toxic dysfunctional misogynistic clericalist culture renowned for covering up all sorts of shenanigans? What public pronouncements, if any, has the chair of ACP made in relation to Rcc abuse corruption and criminality, including cover up by Episcopal leaders ? Finally, surely priests on a parochial level represent all Rcc teachings, particularly when preaching at the pulpit during Mass?

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I think drawing a parallel between the Taliban and the Catholic Church is very apt. The RCC have abused people for centuries.

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I am the Quays in Dublin….. quite beautiful….. no need for exceptionally quote….. beautiful people!!

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Arrange Bill would you ever just shuddup.
You’re a boring fart, a bit like those teenagers self obsessed with their virtual life of social media.

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9.52

Climate change friendly you mean ? Dungannon such a boring all place…..

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