Submitted by a reader:
I’d welcome a similar blog on English and Welsh and Scottish bishops but just in case that isn’t possible and as a stab given my sketchy knowledge of some English and Welsh bishops and the Westminster scene but next to zero on Scottish bishops – let’s start with the Big Gun.
Elsie: Cardinal Vincent:
Where to start?
Groomed by Worlock (homosexual), ordained by Marcinkus (homosexual) and further groomed by Hume (homosexual)
Vinny as he is known was destined for high office from the beginning.
Isn’t that how ot works – pretty boy young priest feted and rewarded by gay protectors and admirers.
Not an intellectual but astute and canny regarding ecclesiastical politics but naive and miscalculating regarding real politics.
Significant other Sr Carmel – unkindly referred to by bitchy gay clerics as ‘the nun.’
He is devoted to her and she is conscious about the power and influence she has – her opinion holds sway about lots of things with Vinny and no doubt they are planning their retirement together.
He has said and says many good things publicly about safeguarding but privately doesn’t get it and leans instinctively towards protecting the abuser (Quigley is a good example) and the reputation of the church.
This mind set and lacuna has damaged him irreparably and (ironically) the reputation of the church.
He probably cares more about his work on the Congregation of Bishops than his diocese.
He enjoys the trappings of his office but is an insecure man who needs lots of praise and doesn’t take kindly to criticism.
Waiting for the Conclave and the Jubilee to retire to his well earned couple of million pad just like Cormac.
Currently wounded by IICSA probably spends a lot of time with lawyers but comforted by Gubay money (half a billion).
Churchman not Shepherd.
Stock, Oakley and McKinney are Vinny appointments- more about them or for another day if this encroaches on the Irish bishop discussion which is fascinating and revealing!!
Dysfunctional and ineffective bishops are one expression of a dysfunctional and ineffective church institution.
At the heart of the matter is the view expressed by one of the reformers: “What Jesus preached was a Kingdom. What we got was a Church”.
Jesus and His Kingdom were and are essentially anti-establishment.
How can that phenomenon be represented by an institution that is rigidly establishment?
It cannot !
And there is the aboriginal dilemma.
A RETURN TO THE NEW TESTAMENT CHURCH
The only true future for the churches and the RCC in particular is a return to the NT church.
In that church men and women were equally involved.
No one lorded it over anyone else.
There were overseers, presbyters, deacons and deaconesses but no clerics.
Everything was run by the teaching of the Lord but there was no canon law.
No popes. No cardinals. No archbishops. No curia. No monsignors. No canons.
120 replies on “ELSIE AND THE ENGLISH BISHOPS.”
That, of course, is one opinion of our Cardinal. I rather take exception to the point about something unsavoury about his relationship with a religious sister. Is companionship wrong? No, it is not. Why did you not mention his love and knowledge of religious art? That was unfortunate. And the guess work about other bishops’ sexual orientation is nothing more than that – guess work. It merely presents another unsavoury aspect of your view. We will no doubt hear much more about other diocesan bishops. More rounded appraisasl would be very welcome.
Vincent & Carmel are the new Abelard & Héloïse.
More Georgie and Lucia I think.
More George and Mildred.
More like the new Will and Grace.
Thelma and Louise lol
Stan and Hilda.
The diocese of Westminster did not clothe itself in glory in this case:
Pat this is not strictly related to the question of the English bishops but the Irish scene. What do you think of the prospect of religious bishops for the Irish church? A possibility? Men who perhaps haven’t been tainted by the seminary scene here.
A post on same might be interesting providing you knew a bit about the area, I don’t know if you do.
Pat, this is not strictly related to the question of the English bishops but the Irish scene. What do you think of the prospect of diocesan priests as abbots/superiors for the Irish religious houses and monasteries? A possibility? Men who perhaps haven’t been tainted by the religious scene here?
Maybe even Bishop Richard Purcell one day.
Well done on what is probably the stupidest comment of the 100 posted here! 😇
Len, your comments on the group of Dominican students you met is fascinating.
I imagine your comment on the last prior provincial was made with tongue in cheek.
Tongue in cheek how? Like I said, I don’t know what to think of him and I don’t know what kind of role he has in the selecting process for novices other than rubber stamping the forms for Rome. Are these young weirdos his doing or someone else’s? Do you have some sort of insight?
I wish we had more of the older style OPs, like alkie McCabe who fell down the stairs in Oxford Blackfriars, and the semi-detached Irish one with a German lady friend and two houses.
Pat, They’ve all imagined themselves the return to the New Testament Church. Presbyterians, Methodists, Episcopalians, all kinds of supposed reformers. Why reinvent the wheel, go and join them? Take your pick, and leave the true church alone, you ould heretic!
You’re so right, there is no such thing as a ‘New Testament Church’. There is only One Church the rest as you say are all heretics away with the lot of them.
Sorry Patsy I take it back, you’re a good boy! today.
Patsy yar at it again with your unfair partiality, not allowing people to post their agreement with dear Nicodemus. You’re a naughty bold boy!
What a vacuous comment – adds nothing to any discussion.
9.48 am anon
Your posts do make me smile with your ‘naughty bold boy’ comments.
Bela Lugosi has changed her handle.
Oul Gossip Alert @9:50am
Wrong again O illiterate one, I posted my agreement with Nicodemus’s whose very good comment I agree with entirely. Back to primary school for you, ya cretin!
Pat, despite your desire for a return to the early church template and its desirability on many levels, when are you going to lead the way? Were you to be true to this ideal I have no doubt you would have attracted more followers to live exactly the model you admire. What has happened? I ask myself the same questions. What is the level of participation of roles in the Oratory by non ordained devotees? Do you have a council committee or a forum group to define the future of the Oratory? The vision of the early church is admirable but very difficult to implement.
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The latest accounts for Westminster diocese reveal that, at a conservative estimate, the diocese expects the Catholic population of the diocese to fall by 20%.
The accounts also reveal that the country retreat for the Archbishop of Westminster – Hare Street House, Buntingford, Hertfordshire – has been sold. Most parishoners in the diocese were probably unaware that the property existed. It is separate from the house acquired for CMOC, who must have turned up his nose at the idea of living in Hertfordshire, lovely though it is.
Anyway, here are some photos of the country retreat.
Here is the archivist of Westminster and a friend chillaxing at Hare Street.
Any clue how much the Buntingford property went for ? It will be in the £ millions, I’m sure. I keep hearing about the Gubay money. Every now and again senior clerics in my diocese will purr contentedly when they refer to it, although I’ve not seen much evidence of it so far. Except a wad of money that came to the English / Welsh dioceses at the beginning of the pandemic to help them through. It would be interesting to know a little more about this Gubay legacy, but it seems to be kept close to the chest. It would be nice if things were a bit more transparent about it, and maybe we could all have some kind of say / view as to how it might be best used for the common good. I don’t expect that to happen, however. It will be used by the present leadership to prop up the status quo and delay for a while the wholesale crumbling of the church, which has an inevitability about it under the present leadership and prevailing conditions. Which means that, by and large, this money will be wasted on just keeping the show on the road rather than using it for innovative, creative and sustainable means.
9.35: You are cheekily misleading. I know of very poor parishes who survived by the Gubay legacy. It helped those parishes to survive, to pay for day to day expenses. I also know of parishes who were helped by the same legacy to train parish leaders, catechists and pastoral workers. Does it matter not knowing the full reality of the legacy? No. I have witnessed the amazing help and support given to many parishes. Your comment is rarher superfluous.
The accounts also reveal that the auxiliary bishops cost £800k a year, and Archbishop’s House costs £400k. They also spent £10m on turning Fr Seed’s old friary into a pre-prep school for the children of bankers. You can’t move for Chelsea tractors in Francis Street every morning.
Mind you, there’s still £300 million left in the Westminster safe, and that’s apart from the Gubbay millions.
They really let Hare Street House fall into disrepair. Should have been sold a long time ago.
The estate agent suggests that the detached chapel be turned into another house, and more houses be built in the grounds. Together it will have been worth a pretty penny.
Mgr Gilbey thought that Cardinal Heenan ruined the house through insensitive modernisations and the sale of tapestries, furniture and books.
9.59: Wonderful news about Westminster finances…I can now retire happily and move from my tent of a house to something more palatial, like Bishop Pat!! ..yippie, yippie..
They spend over £4m a year on administration, which is ridiculous. That’s twice what they spend on clergy stipends and four times what goes on faith development. The diocese employs over 700 staff, which is also ridiculous.
But the difference is administrative staff are useful and necessary.
“My lord abbot, turns out what happens at the Boilerhouse doesn’t stay in the Boilerhouse”.
Canon Paul Nener had pedophile vicars “assigned” to him for counseling, back in 2010. He would have known Justin Welby rather well — given Canon Paul Nener is an honorary Canon of Liverpool Anglican Cathedral.
No wonder the Liverpool victim was being totally ignored by Merseyside Police and the Liverpool Civil Court was covering up the evidence. What a very, very nasty group of people we have at Liverpool Anglican Cathedral. No?
It is a good job the Liverpool victim knew just how to raise the alarm. And ensure nobody else be subjected to these horrendous abuses and corporate step cover ups!
She betrayed the gays for a red hat.
Oh dear, + Vin won’t like the spotlight being shone on him in this blog. He gets apoplectic when he gets a mention. He really does think that he is badly treated in the way people talk about him, think about him, and portray him. I wonder whom he has to blame for that ….!??
Yes Elsie hates gossip and gossip clergy. Little does he realise the ex Anglican clergy queens in his diocese are the worst.
Primitivism, such as you describe, Pat, has been rightly condemned by the Magisterium. Pius XII, for example, in Mediator Dei taught:
“some persons are bent on the restoration of all the ancient rites and ceremonies indiscriminately. The liturgy of the early ages is most certainly worthy of all veneration. But ancient usage must not be esteemed more suitable and proper, either in its own right or in its significance for later times and new situations, on the simple ground that it carries the savor and aroma of antiquity. The more recent liturgical rites likewise deserve reverence and respect. They, too, owe their inspiration to the Holy Spirit, who assists the Church in every age even to the consummation of the world.
They are equally the resources used by the majestic Spouse of Jesus Christ to promote and procure the sanctity of man.
Assuredly it is a wise and most laudable thing to return in spirit and affection to the sources of the sacred liturgy. For research in this field of study, by tracing it back to its origins, contributes valuable assistance towards a more thorough and careful investigation of the significance of feast-days, and of the meaning of the texts and sacred ceremonies employed on their occasion. But it is neither wise nor laudable to reduce everything to antiquity by every possible device. Thus, to cite some instances, one would be straying from the straight path were he to wish the altar restored to its primitive tableform; were he to want black excluded as a color for the liturgical vestments; were he to forbid the use of sacred images and statues in Churches; were he to order the crucifix so designed that the divine Redeemer’s body shows no trace of His cruel sufferings; and lastly were he to disdain and reject polyphonic music or singing in parts, even where it conforms to regulations issued by the Holy See.”
He would say that, wouldn’t he.
Yes Patsy he would, and he was right.
How would you be qualified to comment on this self-serving document, Bela Lugosi, or is it Old Nick?
It’s highly unlikely Pope Pius XII of blessed memory ever even saw the document he signed. No. It ‘s the work of a minion who wished to uphold the status quo. Most probably Alfredo Ottaviani.
Martel in his book In the Closet outs Marckinkus who ordained Vinny – and suggests his penchant was for handsome Swiss Guards – Worlock and Hume were bickering and antagonistic old queens and both played a role in Vinnys assent – I doubt (but wouldn’t bet on it) that neither was active but they were in the closet and both had a penchant for handsome curates and novices.
A senior Catholic prelate is gay?
Outrageous right? I think not homosexuality is they key that dare not speak its name regarding the Catholic hierarchy.
I doubt Vinny is gay but mastered early on the art of gaining the admiration and support of various gay supporters who would help his clerical assent.
Shocking right? No classic MO in the Catholic Church.
Heim and Conry v similar playbook.
How do I know? Clerics are fantastic gossips – they keep v little to themselves.
The young Fr Donald Wuerl seems to have been admired by at least one older prelate. It must be a feature of church life.
Always the libs, always, which is unsurprising. They think that the traditional moral teaching is obsolete so they are just following their consciences.
“Conscience is the aboriginal vicar of Christ”. Card Newman.
Newman must have told himself that when he was getting jiggy with his bf.
Follow the Gubay money – it’s the key to understanding why they don’t fear prosecution – he left 1 billion and half went to Catholic Church.
Vinny is on You Tube attending Mass to thank him etc but privately thought he was a tight miser but with a focus to leave everything to RCC.
They will use the money for court cases which are sure to come and paying retirement and nursing home fees.
Good work Gubay!!
Ah yes purr they will over this legacy for years to come!!
Mgr Stack, when he was Adm, highly prized invitations to Gubbay’s private box at the Royal Albert Hall. Two insecure social climbers together.
Dear George of Cardiff? I didn’t think he was socially ambitious.
He’s past 75 and will probably retire to a modest holding with scope for pastoral engagement.
The post omits Elsies appreciation of religious art and you object to reference to orientation of Marcinkus, Worlock and Hume and this is enough for you that it isn’t rounded!!
Surely you can do better than that unless of course the post is more accurate than you care or want to admit!!
I think you will find the clerical grapevine is very lively on Vinny and Carmel – but your probably right not toxic, significant other, strange and weird friendship but a healthy one between a priest and a nun – rooted in their shared love for God and devotion to pray – so sweet you could make a film about it like Francis and Clare or De Sales and Jane de Chantal.
Who’d play Vincent in the torrid drama? Paul O’Grady?
I think I’m going to puke. Elsie doesn’t have wholesome relationships, Elsie only sees people as allies or enemies. The only emotion he seems to feel is rage. He frankly has rather missed out on quite a lot of human life – looking at a picture won’t humanise you! The saddest thing is that I doubt he would see any problem with this, even in old age, because I doubt very much he has any fear of God.
@10.01am Thank you for the affirmation of my view. I am correct. A far more rounded appraisal is required.
9.50: Gubay legacy has been ysed ti velp many piirer parishes in Ireland too. Without it I know of parishes that would have struggled…So, we are grateful to God for this generous legacy. No secrecy about it.
Bishop Pat, it seems our local public eating sausage roll PP is away on his 3rd holiday of the year to the Canary Islands with a few ‘friends’. I don’t begrudge him a holiday but 3 in a year while most of his parishioners can hardly afford to live is scandalous.
Anyone one need 3 holidays a year with you as a parishioner!
Maybe you will give us a break this week while he is away Maureen?
Maureen get a grip, away and get yourself a sausage roll with your mouth full it might stop you giving out about this poor PP. With nosey parishioners like you no wonder he needs tree holidays
Maureen, do you realise it’s because of you the PP never returns to the parish by the same route he left it in case you would be timing his absences?
What happened to the cause of G K Chesterton?
1 – the superapostles did lord it, except when the christians kept their wits about them enough to ignore them.
2 – there were no organisational sacraments then (but now, the conscientious should abstain from all such appearance because of hegemonism).
3 – Vincent is a Bailiff Grand Cross of the Sacred Military Constantinian Order of Saint George. Which side of the schism is he on? What are his views on the business around Baroness Scotland and the Governor General of Antigua? I think we should be told.
4 – The current archbishop of Birmingham is obliging towards some East Ham “laics” whose boss is in NJ, when it comes to the affairs of third parties.
WTF are you talking about anon @1032 ?
THE ALBERT GUBAY CHARITABLE FOUNDATION Charity number: 1193970 – not much information on the UK Charity Commissioners’ web site, because it is a newly registered charity and only has to provide information at some later stage. Anybody any reliable information about this Trust, its aims, its resources etc ?
Who are the trustees?
Corporate Trustees – so individual names are hidden. All very mysterious. Probably an offshore set-up.
The Trust deed reveals that Mr Gubbay was a good, loyal son of the Church.
Just like Sir Tom Farmer – Kwik Fit! Gubbay – Kwik Save! RCC – Kwik Spend
Buckfast – Fast Buck!
Mount Melleray – Kiss me Kwik!
A barely noticed decision in Dishy Rishi’s budget is that Buckfast – aka Lurgan Champagne – will be moved to a higher tax band, which will make it less attractive to Glaswegians and street drinkers, with knock-on effects on monastic profits.
All the money from the trust is generated from this vast property portfolio managed by the Derwent Group.https://www.thederwentgroup.com/
So the RCC benefits from rents paid by Superdrug and Boots, who supply the morning after pill and condoms.
You couldn’t make it up!
The money originally came from the Kwik Save part of the business. The sin-inducing items are a small part of the Boots retail offer.
Murdoch and Dominoes Pizza pour money into Westminster.
11:11 the church also owns gay bath houses in Rome, a porn publisher and an actual manufacturer of the morning after pill.
I suggest you open your eyes to the simple fact that the church is a scam.
Might take a bit of a hit with the fall in the commercial property market in the last few years, but I’m sure there will still be plenty to go around. No wonder the E&W bishops are so relaxed about the fall in income from congregations over the last few years. They know there is a vast Gubbay money tree that they can shake when they need to. I’d be interested to know who are the Trustees of the Derwent Group / Gubbay Foundation. I’m sure there’s some interesting names there.
@ 1.09 pm.
Yes, I am sure they are very relaxed. Also, the trust administered by Derwent Group is protected and can not be used to fund abuse settlements. So, even if a diocese in the UK were to go into administration, they could carry on with trust fund money. I am sure the arrangement suits the hierarchy very well.
The only function of a deaconess was to assist women to maintain their modesty when they were being baptised by immersion. They weren’t female versions of deacons. The office (not order) of deaconesses became obselete as infant baptism became the norm.
The diaconate was also, quite rightly, obselete in all but name until Paul VI breathed new life into it, in a classic case of clericalism, in which the laity were told the only way to be a real, proper Christian was through ordination.
No. Ahistorical nonsense.
“I commend to you our sister Phoebe, a deacon of the church in Cenchreae. Romans.” 16.1
She was a deacon, not a deaconess. Her role was that of ambassador delivering Paul’s letter to the Christian community at Rome.
The Greek word diakonos can mean “minister,” “deacon” or “servant”. Phoebe was a servant, a letter bearer.
You are not up to speed with the results of recent research, especially of the past decade into the symbiotic roles of episkopos and diakonos in the early Christian centuries. See John Collins “Deacons and the Church.”
The more I keep reading about Vinnie, it sounded to me that he’s a chancer but shrewd. What I don’t like about Vin was his double standards re ‘do as I say but not as I do’ . Hence his words didn’t match his actions re abuse in inquiry. That said, it had exposed him hugely as a chancer. Time again and again, many a bishops here and whole of UK was found wanting and dishonest when it came to abuses cases that came into light. They learned the fine art of cover ups to a certain degree unless they were throughly investigated by outside authorities. A charlatan organisation to some degree.
Minimum of their words less said the better and pious apologies re abuse inquiry won’t wash with me and other abuse victims cos they pretend to be piously spoken, which doesn’t mean that you are holy or prefect. It’s just mere words with no emotions and totally devoid which was totally meaningless. I often said to people, words isn’t important but what’s more was their actions that really defined them, that led up to suppression of the abuses cases and kept it to a minimum degree just bubbling slightly below the surface.
The mistakes that we often made was to report it directly to rcc instead of the secular authorities, which enabled them to defence or further proof wall or defences around themselves in regards to future development or revelations in respect to sex abuse cases which they knew in the 1st place.
To be honest, i know nothing about bishops in UK but I found rcc uk to be very insular and self centered. From previous posts placed on this blog that I read, I what I dont like was Stock and Keenan. Conry was some chancer was he?? Cos he openly and flaunting displays his relationship with a womanand daring uk Catholic people to look at the other way. He isn’t laicaised right bow correct 🙄🤔
To me rcc was a fraud institution in the case of Conry 0lus other bishops that I don’t know of, thus a classic example of masquerading outwardly as piously and devoutly but inside as blatantly at the same time, breaking the very rules that they live by their lives via celibacy rule and rcc ethos.
From what I has seen on this blog, UK rcc Catholics generously part their money well to rcc in UK than Ireland. Rcc UK is a very weathly by all accounts that I heard to date.
Over the years I got the impression that any big dioceses that regularly and contributed large sums hugely to the Vatican coffers, would get the red hat eventually. Examples of Mc Carrick and Dolan, legionnaires of Christ, opus dei, in point along with some wealthy dioceses with millions in their bank accounts.
Bishop Pat this reminds me of Big Delia from Poleglass, the first female PP in Roman Catholic history. How can we boot this woman and her assistant Fr Keenan to the kirb? The way she has treated Mrs Feeney has been appalling. This relationship is strange and has followed Fr Keenan for years so why has Noel not stepped in and told Keenan to grow a set?
Bronagh I felt bullied into letting her into my house. She was bossing Father around something shocking, he was like a puppet.
An insightful post about Elsie but I would just take issue with one point, the one about privately not getting the abuse and safeguarding thing.
He is a leader of a religion with endless education about ethics and morals. If at this stage he somehow fails to understand that the most vulnerable in our society need to be protected and that his religion has significantly failed to do that, and also to continue to prioritize the abuser is not a lack of understanding. For a man in his position to do that means he is an abuser and the fact merely proves he is a cunt.
Anon at 11.46pm
Yes he’s an abuser by proxy and also indirectly as well. He tacitly supports the abusers thus therefore, an accessory to the crimes committed as well. In other words, hes an abuser twice over, no matter how he tries to wriggle it out. The mud sticks with him all the same which he can’t erase it. Once he commits abuse by means of proxy or accessory after fact, thus he’s an abuser. No amount of pious or mealy mouthed words from him could detract from all that cos he allowed it knowingly to continue and fester it.
Heartless, not compassionate any other words that might describe him to a T.
This excerpt from Elsie’s Wikipedia page literally tells you everything you could want to know about him:
Once considered to be liberal, Nichols was described by Damian Thompson of The Daily Telegraph as having moved to more conservative positions. Elena Curti of The Tablet suggested this was the result of advice early in his career from Archbishop Worlock to make himself more “Vatican-friendly” if he was to get ahead in the Church hierarchy. Before his enthronement as Archbishop of Westminster, he was vocal in defending the public reputation of the Catholic Church, notably criticising the BBC for what he called “biased and hostile” programming, which contributed to the decision by the BBC not to show the animated sitcom Popetown.
Bishop Marcus Stock
Where to begin?
Oxford graduate – vile tongue as a student in Rome – prone to explosive outbursts of expletives and rage.
First parish after ordination was Dorchester on Thames (smell of the sheep and love of the poor).
Knows he’s clever, thinks he’s clever and too clever by half but palpably low EQ (is it not ever so).
Thick as thieves with Vinny from Brum days – he’s a classic senior Brum priest in that he despises religion and scorns devotion and new things.
Stock is cynical and hard bitten – glass not half empty glass got only a few drops in it.
Made great play on saying the Latin Mass – wonder what he thinks now?
Was DSC in Brum and worked closely with Quigley. He’s got to have known there was a problem with Quigley.
Recently ordained priest who was in civil partnership and LGBT activist. Partner died bangs on about partner from the pulpit. Stock likes his seminarians and young clergy to be gay.
Insomniac and grumpy seldom if ever smiles.
Gets off on parading his culinary skills.
Doesn’t seem interested in the fairer sex and could easily be or more likely is a good friend of Dorothy.
Calls Vinny ‘his nibbs’ behind his back or in front of it for all I know.
Is an administrator and good at sorting out shite – Leeds and safeguarding.
Makes like he gives a shit – privately doesn’t give a shit about safeguarding says the right things but money not where mouth is.
If he was one of Snow Whites dwarfs he definitely be grumpy.
Vinny besotted with him – Oxford and problem solver does it for Vinny but zero on the grace and charm – could be next Cardinal but would be ‘a disaster darling’ and the beginning of the Ice Age.
Likes power and flexing clerical muscles.
Funny he got Leeds as Vinny loathed Mon Summersgill and although Gen Sec of Bishops Conference under CMOC given small parish in Leeds for his efforts – whereas Stock was Gen Sec and given Bishop of Leeds.
Now Stock his boss – revenge a dish served cold!!
Stock will want rewarding for the shite jobs he does for Vinny and for knowing less where the bodies are buried and more whose in and out of the closet and what scandal to keep on the down low.
Unpopular in Brum – they were glad to see him go and don’t want him back.
One of a number of bishops I wonder if he actually believes in God!! Seriously does he actually believe in God – if he God is a mirror image of him: grumpy, passed off, fed up and Clement Freud look alike!!
Oh and had or still has a thing for Pattaya Orphanages – clearly enjoys a trip to Thailand ostensibly to support orphanage – pictures of him with orphans are the only ones of him where he is smiling and seemingly happy – ah bless him and his Thailand ministry – lovely place for a priest to go on his hols – great food and culture apparently.
The civil partnership widower has been sent on a busman’s holiday, what with being appointed as a hospital chaplain.
Stock also taught at Oscott. He was odd then.
Bishop David Oakley
Bishop of Northampton.
Former Rector of Oscott before that assistant priest and PP in various parishes in Birmingham: Leamington Spa, North Staffs (Leek) and Maryvale (parish).
Former retail manager – worked hard to get a PhD in pastoral theology from Hull.
Oakley and McKinney both Oscott Rectors and best mates and walking partners – both made bishops after Oscott tenure but not Mark Crisp – what happened with Mark Crisp – what’s the story glory!! There will be a story.
Oakley seems like a straight fella but oversaw reign of gays at Oscott which continues to this day.
Also Matthew Jolly was on his watch – what he or no one at Oscott knew Jolly was gay and on Grindr?
Resignation of David Marsdrn (an odd ball if ever there was one and probably gay – he protests too much to be straight) created a bit of a stink around Oscott and prevalent gay culture at this dysfunctional seminary.
Hey but that was no hindrance to being made a bishop for Oakley – feather in cap I’d say!!
He talks a better game than he plays but privately is a weak and timid man easily pushed around by Vinny his clerical master.
Ran for cover holed up in some bolt hole keen to avoid the press when Marsden story broke – no backbone not his own man, Vinnys bitch I reckon.
Vinny appointed clergy he knew as he can get them to do his bidding or dirty work because they are indebted to him rather like Trump with the Supreme Court (but on a lesser scale obvs!!)
Something weird went on with Doyle and Egan v Vinny and Oakley regarding IICSA – Egan and Doyle didn’t have Vinnys back but he could rely on Oakley.
Oakley makes out Northampton is broke and in debt but very much doubt that – but to be fair charity accounts aren’t the best compared to other dioceses but there’s money in reserve etc.
He definitely won’t go further than Northampton – his health isn’t great and he’s not as ruthless as Stock or Vinny which is what it takes to get the top job.
But comfortable retirement awaits and better pension provision than had he just remained a parish priest. Oh and nice pad in Bucks I imagine – no hardship there I’m sure!!!
Feeling lingers that his appointment was a reward or pay off – as opposed to shinning light / but what does he know, what did he do? Will the truth one day out – in more ways than one perhaps.
The bishops of Northampton seldom enjoy good health. Francis Thomas died in office at 58. McDonald went on to Southwark but retired early on health grounds at 62. But then Leo McCartie made it to 94, and Doyle, although obese, has good health. Mind you, Northampton itself is a dull place and would lend itself to bringing on ill-health.
McKinney certainly wasn’t gay friendly and kicked out a couple of seminarians for visiting the illicit bars of Birmingham in the early 1990s. He let one remain (now a priest in Dark Mavis’ diocese) exposed in The Sun as a user of Gaydar and who arranged meets under his pseudonym “Happy Fella”. He also kicked out a gay seminarian who managed to get ordained as an Anglican vicar after he was apparently caught by police on CCTV doing something with a male on a tube station.McKinney let Goodstatd through to ordination, but who then left and abused children in Peterborough and got a heft sentence.
I thought McKinney was made rector at a young age – 35 and was always very tense and was known to have a temper. His face would literally go red when angry. David Evans (auxiliary in Birmingham) was his vice-rector and an odd fish. He was skinny as a rake, but after leaving, Oscott bulked up at the gym! He and Canon Mervyn Tower would not communicate with each other. Apparently, the result of a friendship that went bad whilst students at the VEC.
Tower was odd, though and courted a harem of pretty young seminarians. One of his favoured was a red-blooded hetero appointed as secretary to the Archbishop (Couve de Murville) – a known friend of Dorothy. The young priest was subsequently exposed by the NoW for an affair with a married woman and left.
McKinney had a difficult time with the rest of his seminary faculty – McGloughlin (Dogmatic Theology), Meehan (Moral Theology) and LeBas (Fundamental Theology) all left the priesthood to marry. One poor chap, Michale Raiswell (Liturgy), took his own life. A strange staff member called Ken Collins was wholly dysfunctional and an alcoholic but was kept on as a good lecturer in NT at the University of Birmingham.
The two saintly priests there were Louis MacRae and Dermot Fenlon. Poor Fenlon was kicked out of the Birmingham oratory unceremoniously. Fenlon knew what was going on and would spend hours in the chapel praying. It pained him enormously. His trouser knees were shiny for all the time he spent in prayer. Bruce Harbert, a great friend of Dorothea, was also on the staff… but I have gone on long enough. So you can see Oscott has had its problems for at least 35 years or more.
Bru seems to live and breathe at the Manchester toiletry
Fr Ken Collins was a freak. First-year seminarians were put on a rota to serve his 6 am private mass in the domestic chapel. Instructions were given not to make eye contact with him and no conversation. You had to retrieve the altar wine from the fridge as he liked it chilled. He would fill the challice to the brim and neck it back. His first drink of the day. He would always have beer with his lunch on top table, and then dissapered at 4pm to his room where he would drink and smoke his pipe whilst listening to classical music. He had some sort of nervous disorder and not able to look at anyone. He would walk around during lectures, looking at the ceiling as he spoke. Very odd man.
Fr Sean Farrell was formed by this lot and he too sadly took his own life. Another, somewhat estimate seminarian also took his life in the mod 1990s. I can’t recall his name. Bishop Stephen Wright only did two years under them before escaping to Rome to finish his studies. So hopefully their influence didn’t contaminate him too much.
Harbet has been going there since 1992. He’s bezzies with Matus.
I thought Gaynooth was a hothouse of secrets and lies but Oh, Scott! takes the biscuit.
This disgruntled Birmingham Cleric cowboy has a massive chip on his shoulder. He has been spewing out names all day with venom. He has it in for McKinney, Oakley, Evans and others. He clearly is smarting after being passed over for promotion. Jealousy is a terrible thing.
Wow what an interesting post – fascinating insight and just the kind of back story they would want kept under wraps.
Is there something in the water at Oscott?
Mark Crisp and Mervyn Towers had the hots for Andrew Robinson the seminarian who died and Vincent wouldn’t ordain because of his terminal illness.
I hope if the blog has an Oscott day that you will tell us more – Oscott such an odd place.
Why did they make David Evans a bishop he must be on the spectrum and with zero people skills – he makes even Bill Kenney look charming (if that was even possible!!)
Yes that brought back many names that have been under wraps for years. However as for there being something in the water, Birmingham water comes from Wales so the solution may lie further afield!
Oscott was a cold, bleak and unloving place. Evans, McKinney, McLoughlin and Meehan were sent away at twelve to Cotton College. McKinney found escape in cross country running – I think he’s still running away from the loveless childhood he had. His family were from Buncrana and seemed content to give up a son to the church. You’re right about Evans – clinical and cold, no warmth whatsoever. He appeared to be like the caricature of a serial killer. Maybe he mellowed after some pastoral experience? However, he was loyal to McKinney, and no doubt both he and Oakley welcomed him into the club.
McLoughlin was considered a liberal, but he was always friendly, sympathetic and a thoroughly decent man. I am glad he’s found happiness outside of the priesthood.
A spanner in the works for Dermo’s botched and under-priced disposal of Clonliffe.
7.43: Who cares? It’s too late for a reversal 8fvdecisions. The GAA are the net beneficiaries not the Dublin Diocese who sold the estate at a pittance, wrongfully and without a proper consultation with concerned people and agencies in the Diocese.
How indeed could the Archdiocese be so incompetent in the sale of Clonliffe college.
Evans cold, clinical and no warmth – rather like a psychopath – I’ve got just the job for him, let’s make him a bishop.
The bishops aren’t just clowns there psychopaths as well.
Robert Byrne – bishop of Hexham and Newcastle
Oratorian former auxiliary in Birmingham.
Gossipy, bitchy, two faced, rotund ,a religious who enjoys the good life and his creature comforts – bone idle and needs lots of sleep especially after lunch – bishopric a reward for sorting the dysfunctional Hayley Rd Oratarians or some Oratorian scandal or another.
Wouldn’t trust as far as could throw him – he’d stab you in the front and back whilst being pleasant and genial to your face.
Machiavellian and slippery / well known clerical gossip – wouldn’t snog or marry and definitely one to avoid!!
Favourite phrase – I’m telling you but don’t repeat it’ sense he says that to all the girls.
Suicide of cathedral dean – dark chapter and played it like shock and surprise to him etc.
Lives in £900,000 house paid for by the poor people of Hexham and Newcastle – eye eye Pet!
Wonder what his clergy think of this funny (not) little but big southern softy?
He’s from Manchester but otherwise you are spot on. You could add he hates the Old Mass it’s all fiddlebacks and ‘ Blessed are you Lord God of all creation for him
I wonder if +Elsie will be making a statement on climate change, Bp Pat, and Amy too.
Amy will advocate wind power especially round Armagh to keep her lace knickers dry on the line.
John Arnold of Salford has gone to represent the bishops of England and Wales.
OMG – The English queen bitches brigade are out in their fullness today, stripping each other bare with venom and vitriol. Amazing lot. Would hate to work with them.
Pat, please have an Oscott day. It’s fascinating.
It looks like we’ve already had an Oscott day today ! Lots of names creeping out, and interesting titbits. Blasts from the past. Interesting !
Mark Crisp on Ken Collins:
Pat please repost the Oscott camping trip photos!
On the subject of the Westminster Archdiocese does anyone here remember a Westminster diocesan priest called Derek Jennings- purportedly friend to the Royals and other famous personages?
He died in the 1990’s at a young age- a matter of a few years after his ordination. Does anyone have any background as to the circumstances of his death? I have my own ideas but would like clarification from the community here.
Paul Gallagher the No2 at the Secretariat of State may well succeed Nichols at Westminster
Please, not another desk priest.