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VATICAN TO LOSE 100 MILLION POUNDS OF PETERS PENCE FUNDS IN DISASTEROUS LONDON PROPERTY DEAL.

7.11.21. Peter. Complicated Clergy.

The Vatican will incur a loss of £100m in donations intended for the needy when it completes the pending sale of a luxurious London office building now at the centre of an international criminal investigation.

The Vatican is in the final stages of selling 60 Sloane Avenue, a building in the Knightsbridge district of London, for about £200m to private equity group Bain Capital, according to several people familiar with the process. Bain Capital and Savills, which is managing the sale, both declined to comment.

Senior Holy See officials invested a total of €350m of donations in the London building between 2014 and 2018, the Vatican has said, meaning that the sale is expected to confirm a loss of about £100m for the Catholic Church.

The Vatican prosecutors say the money invested in the building and other investments was derived from Peter’s Pence, an annual donation given by Catholics around the world which, according to the Vatican, is intended “for the many different needs of the universal church and for the relief of those most in need”.

CARDINAL PELL

Cardinal George Pell, the Vatican’s former economy czar, has said that if his office had been able to intervene sooner, it could have saved some of the money lost in the Secretariat of State’s controversial London property deal.

The Australian cardinal told the Italian newspapers La Stampa and Corriere della Sera in an interview published Nov. 4: “There was resistance in the Secretariat of State. But if the auditor, or we from the Secretariat for the Economy, had been able to intervene earlier, we would have saved a lot, a lot of money destined for the London building and also in other places.”

PAT SAYS:

When it comes to the RCC these days the problems are either SEX or MONEY or both.

Everyday there is at least one new RC scandal in the world.

It’s relentless. Never ending.

Today it’s £ 100,000,000 missing from Peters Pence money collected from all over the World to help the poor.

So it’s the poor who will suffer while RC prelates fill their cassocks with cash.

Italy should abolish the 1929 concordat and take the Vatican back into its own territory and make it subject to Italian, European and international law.

TUAM BABY PROGRAMME ON RTE ONE AT 10.15 PM

Tonight’s RTE ONE programme about the Tuam Babies is a must watch programme.

Prepare yourself to be shocked, angered and saddened.

This is one of the biggest rotten fruits of Irish Roman Catholicism.

108 replies on “VATICAN TO LOSE 100 MILLION POUNDS OF PETERS PENCE FUNDS IN DISASTEROUS LONDON PROPERTY DEAL.”

Strictly speaking the headline should be ‘Vatican to lose 100 million of money donated by other people for charity that they tried to invest instead but would really have been better putting on a roulette wheel’.
Just shows people are fools to keep giving to the scum.

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7.33 am
Pat can allow Magna Carta back if he wishes, it’s Pat’s blog.

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7.33: You are right. To use Magna’s own word: he is “scum” and all we will have again is the fraught, ugly, poisonous invective which Magna elicits. Pat, he is undeserving of recognition. Can’t you recognise that your blog flourished without him?

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@7:03: I don’t agree. When not unnecessarily vitriolic, Magna’s insights and criticisms make informative insightful comment. Yes, in the past he has been rather OTT, and others like myself, have said so.
Blunt criticism with facts is okay, albeit it has to be acknowledged that most ‘cathbots’ are impervious to anything outside their comfort zone of blind faith. Personalised ad hominem vitriol is not okay, so pay heed Magna and ‘keep ‘er lit’.
MMM

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8.58
We all know it’s Pat’s blog. We all know he can decide to allow or to block any comment. The question is is it a good idea. In my view MC excludes himself from public debate. His recent comment confirms my position on two counts:
-referring to human beings in such offensive terms;
-prejudicial generalisation.
So, my preference is to block him.

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And I lean strongly in that direction too especially because of his extreme hatred and unacceptable words.

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9.13am: MMM – Yes, MC can be quite cogent and good with commentary but it takes little before he descends into utter rage, farce and ugliness of thought and expression. He never learns, eve,r to have respect or tolerance for others. Personally, I believe this blog is better without him. Already today he is causing a stir for all the wrong reasons.

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I think the purpose of charity investments, if properly done, is to make it grow and also to provide a regular, predictable income that allow charitable projects to be sustained over years rather than just a big splurge of spending in one year. It is also to have reserves and it might be predicted that property gives a better return.

Though in this case the deal it looks very shady, and a huge loss maker.

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A parish priest would be mad to allow the Peter’s Pence collection to continue after this scandal. They should just impose a stamp duty charge on the sale of diocesan and religious property around the world. The nuns of St Dorothy in Hampstead are selling their convent advertised for £15,000,000 a 2% charge would net the Holy See 300k.

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Dean Kennedy’s old haunt, More House at 51-55 Cromwell Road in London has been sold to SAV Group for £25million by the Canonesses of St Augustine.

The 38,000 sq ft building, formerly housed a Catholic chaplaincy, student centre and 79-bedroom hall of residence and adjoining mews and is located at 51-55 Cromwell Road, opposite the Natural History Museum.

Quite a windfall for the tiny handful of nuns left in this renewed order.

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9.13 am MM
I agree, some of the things MC says is insightful and if he sticks to that then I thinks he adds to the blog. Just because some people don’t like his views does not make him wrong every time.

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Pat, in case you weren’t aware. Yesterday the Bishops Conference joined with TROCAIRE to appeal for donations for Ethiopia, Sudan and Somalia to respond to horrendous suffering. Our parishioners contributed €8,050, an amazing gesture of support from a smallish weekend congregation. Just recently for Mission Sunday, they contributed €4,100. The parishioners are wonderfully generous and are likewise very supportive of their parish. It is shameful that any money for the Peter’s Pence was used for this purpose. It is just so morally reprehensible and a terrible misuse of money meant specifically for the poor. When acknowledgement are received from charities our “poor box” supports they are placed on notice boards for all to see. Since Jan of this year over €8,000 has been given to charities working with the poor, homeless and needy families. Any misuse of funds for the poor is outrageous.

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7.54: You are right about huge salaries for top people in charities. Thus, I choose the charities where there are little overheads or huge managerial positions: Br. Kevin’s Day Care Centre: Alice Leahy Trust and ALONE and one or two local outreach initiatives. Some charities have far too many managerial positions and some charities of recent years and even more recently have folded because of mismanagement of funds. Any misappropriation of funds for the poor should warrant civil action.

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Another big “Con” by several prominent “charities ” arises when they provide “services” to state authorities. I have in mind, from personal experience, those charities with high public profiles of helping/rescuing children or animals: NSPCC, BARNARDOS, Guide Dogs for the Blind, and the like. Many of them are in fact highly sophisticated businesses spending large sums on managers and publicity.
Take for example services to disadvantaged children. In UK, Council central government grants have had successive cutbacks for many years This has lead to closures of homes and many of the other supportive services for children. Meanwhile “voluntary ” organisations capitalise on tax free charitable status/breaks to build/provide child care services, (and here’s the rub), offer those much needed services to cash strapped councils, but then CHARGE COUNCILS THE FULL COST (elements of capital building, depreciation, running charges including staffing etc) on a pro rata basis per child. And they invariably pay better salaries to poach and retain best staff usually in less stressful work environments. The same financial principles also apply to fostering and adoption recruitment services. So regularly they can offer a fostering or adoption placement,….but at full cost to the council!
I don’t deny that they can do good work. But is this real charity? And do those who think that these charities exist solely on their cash donations realise the realities?
MMM

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Good point, MMM, and based on your knowledge. Some so-called charities are full-blown corporations and don’t even go through the motions of rattling cans or fundraising among the public. The NGO sector in the south of Ireland is massive.

The other point is that these so-calked charities, by being dependent on central or local government for funding, could lose some of their campaigning/critical friend function, on the basis of he who calls the piper calls the tune. Their staff and board appointments can also be opaque and not on the basis of fair and open competition eg all the ex-priests who get appointed onto Bon Secour boards, and the Relihan appointment.

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Why does St Patrick’s College Maynooth charge Trocaire over €200k rent for the former seminary bedrooms in Long Corridor that Trocaire now occupies as offices? Why cannot it be rent-free, with Trocaire just paying for the utility bills in the space it occupies?

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What did Elsie know of the Sloane Sq deal?
Did the Vatican visit the site and not inform or update the Cardinal?
Elsie was ordained by Marcinkus and Mennini was running the embassy – both Marcinkus and Mennini (his Dad) were caught up big time in the Banco Ambrosia scandal.
London (murder of Calvi) and Vatican financial scandal have form.
The Fin Sec for Westminster is an Italian and Neo Cat front – what he in the time honoured phrase ‘know nothing.,
Trial in the Vatican is a farce – tin pot legal system – more about settling scores than justice.
Here’s a oxymoron for you – Vatican and Justice.
Here isn’t an oxymoron: Vatican and Corruption.
What did Elsie and Fin Sec know of this deal – if anything will be buried deep but may one day surface.
All Church and Vatican money comes from Widows mite. Shameful abuse of power and money.
Pretty sure many in the Vatican don’t believe in God but if you do know this God cherishes the Widow and her mite.

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12.44: Name ALL ex priests on Bon Secours Health System personnel apart from Relihan. Tell us ALL their names..Go on. Otherwise you are lying.

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That programme was very revealing. I recorded it, and at times re-ran bits just to take in the reality of how disgustingly the RCC treated those poor women and children. And indeed, how obsequiously blind were the state authorities. Behind it all was the huge sham of an authoritarian self serving religion.
MMM

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9.21: MMM – Let’s not forget too that behind these arrangements were a cohort of medical personnel, social workers, psychiatrists and a society that was ashamed of its unmarried mothers and their children. The unquestioned acquiescence of politicians and health boards to church domination is a grevious sin and crime. We are all wiser now – or are we re: child care and responding to their intellectual and mental challenges? We have much to be ashamed of in failing children today. No argument can ever justify the horrendous abuse inflicted on women and children in these homes or any county home where we “dumped” our unwanted people, happy that the nuns facilitated this regime for the state. Where were local councillors, politicians, doctors, psychiatrists? Where were their voices of protest? And what are we doing tiday to ensure no child or parent is denied necessary services for the well being, health and education of their child with special needs? Where are our voices when children are placed in adult wards as they await relevant psychiatric care? Yes, the past was an unhappy gulag for defined “sinners” and those who “failed” our moral compass!! The past horrible mistakes must make us ask questions for today.

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As if cover ups never occur/ occured in Social Work! Get off your high horse, Michael.

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The don’t want the excavation because they won’t find 800 babies. The estimates have been scaled down to 10-100. Such infant mortality was tragically commonplace then.

It is now thought that some of the children on death certificates were actually illegally sent abroad for adoption and their movements covered up.

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@12:28: You make many good relevant points with which I agree.
And @ 12:43: No high horse here! Maybe in the past a bit of a blind donkey from being reared in that church dominated subservient culture so many of us endured.
But fortunately there have been changes, albeit much too slow in offering proper redress.
The slowest institution of all, yet one of the wealthiest?
It only needs one guess!
MMM

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3:08pm

NONSENSE.
Social Work is riddled with cover ups. Take off the blinkers, Micheal.
Stop playing the blame game. Who called your tune? The State?

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There’s no point replying to Anon 3:08! It seems to be the same person who invariably criticises anything to do with social work, but without offering any evidence. Surprisingly Sharon Shoesmith wasn’t referred to this time. Maybe they just had a bad experience.

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4:56 pm

Are you referring to 4:08pm? If so, might I suggest you inform yourself before making silly comments. For evidence, Google social work scandals, for starters.
You will find the following among an endless number of entries;https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8333591/Judge-wont-social-workers-major-scandal.html
ttps://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/serious-child-abuse-allegations-repeatedly-not-investigated-1.4149405
By the way, I have never commented on Sharon Shoesmith. Never make assumptions!

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Google Sharon Shoesmith and Baby P, which amazingly happened despite all the alleged improvements after the awful Victoria Climbié case in the same borough of Haringey. If you can face it, Google Kincora too.

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3.07: 4 names. Thought there were many, many mire, yet you inly produce 4 names. Goid luck to all of them in their respective roles. They all had a good, excellent Catholic education and qualifications from primary to secondary to third level. . Obviously all very talented. God bless them.

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There are two Churches. There is the Church of the likes of Nichols, the Vatican, high stake property deals, corruption etc., as we hear reported with such regular monotony. Throw in to this as well a Church that has been long criminally complicit in the abuse of the young and the vulnerable, both actively and by cover up. This Church is hypocritical, and presumes to tell everybody what they should do and how they should live. The other Church is the Church that you so often find in your local parish. A priest who is doing his best with little support, often overworked, but carrying on a loyally as possible. He is probably outraged by the Church described above. But, he carries on. He is supported by good, kind, generous and committed people, who take care of him and take care of each other. They have a conscience which is focused on looking after and supporting those who need their help. They are generous and outward looking, and get on with their lives, which are good lives. They manage diverse and varied families and relationships, which they do with good sense and generosity, often in contrast to the edicts coming from the other Church. Increasingly, these good people and priests are detaching themselves from the official Church, as much as they can. They listen respectfully, but are determined to make up their own minds and to plough their own furrow. The respect with which they listen, and increasingly so, is wearing thin, however, and the day will come when they decided that the official Church is a hindrance to their own good and simple life as Church. I guess that’s what happened at various reformations of the Church. Another one is long overdue, and is coming down the road.

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This is denial pure and simple. There aren’t two churches, you are trying to distance yourself from the corruption and justify remaining in a criminal organization.
There is one church and everyone who remains in it props up the abuse and corruption.

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Pat, the post by MC was good and on topic, but you have binned it – not fair play.

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Pat please make some rules about what is ok and what isn’t and then stick to them, it becomes very wearing. You recently told Bella you hadn’t allowed a comment because of a phrase (can’t remember what) but it was one he has used here dozens of times.

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9.38 Sorry to disagree. I find it quite demonic. The root of this is arrogance. Very mediocre men given God like powers. How can you lose money on London Real Estate. It’s a nightmare. Every time you blink the price has gone up.

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You are quite right. London property price have in the past and now continue to rise. It is almost impossible to lose money on an investment like the one discussed on today’s blog. This suggests strongly that some very dodgy or amateurish work went on. Transparency is now essential.

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It would, except of course the church’s raison d’être is meant to be being different from the world. I laugh every time when that bastard Elsie says abuse is in society because it shows he and his ilk have completely failed.

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https://cruxnow.com/news-analysis/2021/11/yes-honest-to-god-vatican-finance-stories-matter/

Yes, honest to God, Vatican finance stories matter
By John L. Allen Jr.
Nov 9, 2021

” ROME – It’s only Tuesday, but I’ve already got a candidate for the Vatican soundbite of the week. It came in a piece in the Financial Times, quoting an unidentified expert on the London real estate market on news that the Vatican is selling a property in the posh Chelsea neighborhood for $270, representing roughly a $130 million loss on its original investment of $400 million.
“I couldn’t quite understand how they [the Vatican] had lost money on it,” the expert said, referring to the well-known fact that losing money on real estate in London is hard to do – unless, it turns out, you’re the Vatican’s Secretariat of State.”

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LOL they’re as good at investing money as they are at being transparent, ensuring churches are safe places, investigating possible abuse and believing their own religion. Thankfully they don’t have proper jobs.

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If the institutional church is soo concerned for safety make Safeguarding completely independent of the church. Or does safeguarding provide a smokescreen or layer of protection for hierarchs? It must be independent of the institutional church.

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100 million could buy a few sausage roll shops and a few luxury pads in the Canaries for our local PP.

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10.32 am.

Hahahaaa I wondered when Maureen was going to make an appearance today.. I do enjoy a good laugh.

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I thought we are all entitled to free speech 11.20am as long as it’s not hate speech. I see no hate on what Maureen has said. People are becoming much more intolerant, ignorant, impatient and angry these days. Just look at car drivers today as only one example.

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11.28: She annoys many people because of the utter silliness and stupidity of her rubbishy repeat comments. Tell me anything worthwhile this thing has articulated.

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I never subscribed to the hyperbole around George Pell, always had a sense of his integrity ( I never shared his world view…. he may be right !) . George Pell is a good man. He payed a high price for it. A good man who to the best of his abilities always tried to help people. ( his politically charged public utterances I am not referring to..)

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The utterances I am referring to are as Archbishop in Melbourne and Sydney around the dynamics of relationships…. his utterances from Rome were commendable and for which he suffered….

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Bernard Law was lifted out of Boston and protested from Justice for the rest of his life. George Pell went back to Australia to face the judicial system : A measure of the individuals.

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11.35. The issue re: Maureen is that her comments are inane, vacuous, unintelligent and irrelevant. She/he/it is being utterly childish and deliberately stupid. A wind up merchant.

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Which might very well be true but you make the same comment about any comments you don’t like. You’re a bully.

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Twitter today is full of people with “I voted Yes” [to abortion] avatars who are up in arms about Tuam. Do they not see the irony?

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12.50: Isn’t it so sad that the loudest voices shouting abuse about the nuns who ran the Tuam home are all for abortion, which is the killing of the unborn child. Sad. Sad. Sad.

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12.50
You have neglected to look more closely; a bit of lateral thinking will bring you to destination.

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7.27
What does nuns did ( for profit) and the Roman Church did around the world ( along with other organisations and institutions ( of various state and religious/ credal persuasion ) ) was far more barbaric than abortion ( Thomas Aquinas was more progressive in his time than any catholic moralists of the last century and a half), it’s one thing not to want a child, it’s another horror entirely to receive it into the world and punish it barbarically ( short term or long term) because of the manner of it’s conception. It was all to do with conquest and money.

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Not many people realise that you can access anyone’s will online for a modest fee of £1.50. A will becomes a public record after probate. Monsignor Bryan Chestle, Protonotary Apostolic, lived at the VEC in Rome and worked for the secretariat of state. The job paid reasonably well as he left behind an estate of £310,137. I always wondered if he was an MI6 agent, as he was a fluent Russian speaker and Oxford Graduate and his placement at the heart of the Vatican, ideal for gathering intelligence.

He appointed Monsignor Anthony Wilcox and Fr Andrew Cole as his executors. He gave a cash legacy of £50,000 to his sister, and then cash legacies of £1,500 each to Bishops Christopher Budd and John Hine and Fathers Paul Moss, Mark McManus, Robert Draper, Tony Wilcox, Andrew Cole, Liam Bradley and £5,000 to former vice-rector of Wonersh, Fr Anthony Barratt. The remainder of his estate was left to the Roman Association to benefit the VEC.

Interesting.

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Poor Moss, oh dear, such a bad complexion, spotty. I doubt if he’s worn well. Was definitely losing the blonde hair when I last saw him. He evidently thought a lot of himself, and was encouraged to do so by others. How long he will last in the Vatican remains to be seen. Sharkey realised he wasn’t going very far there, and decamped back to Brum. Where is he these days ? Some grace and favour place ? £1,500 to Wilcox will have been small fry. Just enough to pay for a champagne quaffing day at the Henley Regatta. He’s definitely got a grace and favour place courtesy of the rich Henley billionaires that he befriended. Sorry to be so bitchy, but I’ve suffered at all their hands, you know, the usual condescending shit they pour on those they deem to be less entitled than themselves. And, where pray tell, did they come from that gave them such an entitled hauteur ? A lot of the backstory is made up. I know.

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1.42pm
Very interesting reading – I heard about this fella – didn’t he meet with PJPII reasonably often – a darling of the VEC and clearly had a soft spot for Paul Moss – he who became increasingly gayer and gayer as the post ordination years built up – felt like he was letting the mask slip!!
Wonder if Chestle was involved in Moss now working (I say working!!) for the Secretariat of State.
Birmingham tends to provide the Vatican with its promising young meat – Moss and Murphy spring to mind.
What does it reveal about a priest regarding clergy who cash in on their death? Friends, lovers, hiders of secrets etc.
His money but honestly his sister only got £50K and his favs and VEC the rest – what is that all about.
Thanks for posting this info – I’d love to know about Couve, Hume and CMOC regarding probate and a few of the not so dearly departed and the cash they left behind and who they bequeathed it to and who the executor is v interesting and revealing.
Where is Christle buried or was he cremated?
Shocking how much money clergy have in their bank accounts and where did it come from – the widows mite I fear.

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https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/#wills

If you do not know the year of death, choose advanced search and put in the deceased’s surname, enter 2021 as the year of death, and if no results, scroll to the bottom and keep clicking the previous year till you find it. Only applies to Wills made in England and Wales, though. Not sure if Scotland, Northern Ireland or Ireland have the same.

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Was Chestle involved in Moss now working for the Secretariat of State? As the Italians say, “Senza Dubbio”. He was Il Padrino to Moss, who knew how to entice the repressed old queen. Moss was replaced by another beauty, Liam Bradley, who appears to enjoy playing at being a policeman? I thought there was a shortage of PPs in Wales. Why does the Dyfed police force need a chaplain? All very Granchester.

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Pat, I would like to say something, not in line with today’s topic I know.
Here goes:
Earlier today you said you did not like the word ‘Scum’ and I agree on that. However, at 11.20 am someone used the words ‘Bitch’ and ‘Slut’ in reference to Maureen. Now, both those words relate to misogynistic terminology which I think is unacceptable. At least the word ‘Scum’ is gender neutral terminology, although also unacceptable.
At 11.26 am someone else suggested that you make some rules about what is okay and what isn’t. Personally, I think that makes sense.
Thank you.

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How did the church become involved in such wheeling and dealing? Power and money rarely draw out the best in people. These “senior Vatican officials” are all priests and bishops. One wonders what benefit their ordination has had on anyone’s spiritual life. What use have they ever been in drawing even one soul closer to God? I’m not saying they haven’t but I’m just wondering how you could do much of that walled away in a city state investing copious capital. Given the fact that “there are no pockets in the timber top coat” it might be time that attention was given to the spiritual balance sheet. Such attention would have the added bonus of putting a stop to the absurd business of the Church having a property portfolio.

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Exactly – Property Portfolios, Episcopal Mansions, Investment Portfolios, Chauffered cars and all the rest after their founder taught, “The foxes have holes, and the birds of the air have nests, but the Son of man hath not where to lay his head”.

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Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed, it’s the only thing that ever has.

Margaret Mead

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7.34

It’s not and she isn’t. Are you a follower of the Nazarene….he knew a thing or two about being discredited.

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9.26

Very different from your 7.34.

I’d be happy myself to have its provenance attributed to me !!!!! It’s veracity is unquestionable.

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MI6 has agent priests here already. I know they have a few in the North. A recluse, doesn’t answer the door. He gathers info, stays way under the radar. Paid well by British inteligence. Clever mover. Enjoys the finer things in life. Be careful Buckley. The enemy comes from within your own household .

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Of course Chestle was an MI6 agent. He was in the British Army. First, in Northern Ireland in the Royal Artillery and then sent to the School of Slavonic Studies. He took the examination set by the Foreign Office to become a Official Military Interpreter and Translator. I suspect as a member of the Papal Household during JP II’s time he was useful in feeding back intelligence gathered from behind the Iron Curtain. The wreath at his funeral signed “C” in green ink gave him away.

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Francis Campbell has all the hallmarks of an exceptional agent…. of whatever patronage… good on him. He gets around… though what he would exactly gather in Fremantle is a question? A lot of lithium mines in W.A.

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I never under any circumstances give money to overseas aid charities such as Trocaire, Cafod, Christian Aid etc. This is because I am already donating to them through my taxes thanks to the UK giving billions in overseas aid. If I then gave to the overseas aid charities it would mean I was paying twice.

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A link posted in a comment the other day featured the mission leader of Bons Secours in Dublin giving a lecture to students in Maynooth. The former priest, now a head chaplain, is neither here nor there … imagine boasting about the Bons Secours mission in the National Seminary – and the dreadful legacy they left behind in Tuan with those poor babies. Another priest from Meath in Bons Secours in Cork.

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10.32: The full truth is not yet known about Tuam. There are many extreme narratives. I would have no difficulty working for the Bon Secours Sisters. None.

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@11:45 If even one child’s remains were in a septic tank it’s one too many and we saw tonight that there are many remains in the tank. One, is one too many.

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