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A VERY THOUGHT PROVOKING FILM ABOUT PRIESTHOOD AND CELIBACY.

THIS VERY THOUGHT PROVOKING FILM ON CELIBACY WAS SUBMITTED ON A COMMENT RECENTLY. I THINK IT DESERVES A BLOG AND DISCUSSION OF ITS OWN.

There is no doubt about it than in this 21 st century celibacy should be OPTIONAL and not OBLIGATORY.

The alternative to it is:

1. Good priests leaving forgive and companion ship.

2. Less strong and principled priests leading double lives and living in moral compromise.

And after Rome has allowed so many former Anglicans to be ordained makes the celibacy rule a laughing stock.

A number of years ago I married a PP in his late 30s who left to marry.

He was replaced in the parish by a former Anglican with a wife and kids.

AND HOMOSEXUAL PRIESTS?

What do we do then about a priest who is a good priest and wants to stay but is in love with another man?

In most parishes the parishioners would have no problem with either a heterosexual or homosexual priest with a partner.

My own experience is that people have no problem with me being a partnered priest / bishop.

In fact my partner is regularly invited with me to attend wedding receptions.

It seems that only the episcopal homos suffering from internalised homophobia have a problem with partnered priests?

160 replies on “A VERY THOUGHT PROVOKING FILM ABOUT PRIESTHOOD AND CELIBACY.”

Pat, I agree with you that celibacy should be optional, not obligatory. Many priests who have left to be married, either in homosexual or heterosexual unions would be a huge benefit to the Church. What wonderful experiences they would bring to ministry and parish life. I’ve encountered such couples. However, the Church’s problems are’t just about celibacy, but also about a skewed view of sexuality, unrenewed morality, abuse of power, authority and privilege. We are in a transitional period of immense changes, unclear visions, falling congregations, on-going sexual and financial corruption, lack of women in significant roles…The celibacy issue raises many questions about the entire patriarchical theology and ecclesiology which is out of touch, arrogant and unwelcoming to present generations of people. Pat, I hope you won’t allow sniping, degenerate and cynical put downs dominate this serious issue.

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@12:21am

Other points of view who don’t agree with you have to be heard. It is very arrogant of you to ask what you call sniping not be allowed, people have the right to their opinions. I don’t agree with anything you say at all and I don’t want freethinkers like you to dominate this issue.

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9.41
A third voice here. Your post seems to indicate you consider what you call freethinking to be something negative. Academic freedom, whether in theology or any other discipline is something to be guarded and aspired to.

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9.41: I am merely asking that, for once, we should have a serious debate devoid of sarcasm, put downs, silly, bitching comments and that commenters should express whatever opinion they have in a rational, respectful and intelligent way. No insult meant in this simple request!! Pat is the moderator but some people can’t look beyond the sexual fantasies.. Let’s be intelligent and constructive for once. All views of this nature help to support the necessity for renewal in all ways.

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Excuse me but Bishop Pat always publicises opposite points of view to his, you are just looking air time today.

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What would the Catholic Church want ?A very few cellibate Priests , and no mass for the majority of people ?Or married Priests and Mass for many people ?The Orthodox Church proves a married person can be a Priest , and it works well .But then there is a deeper question also about the training of Priests .Is six years to long ?How does it prepare a person for ministry to place him in an closed environment for many years with a routine ,and then put the same person in to a parish with many people , and where there is an impossibility to keep a strict routine , and also many hours alone ? Running alongside all this is the question of how the church is governed , and its structures .Does the authority , and decision making now need to be handed down to each Diocese so there is more
autonomy to decide on issues like woman priests , celibate ,and married priests ? A unity in diversity .Also if such changes were made does the church need to move to the majority of clergy being worker Bishops ,Priests , and Deacons with the people electing who they wish to serve in the clergy of their individual community orDiocese ? The voice of the people , the voice of God .

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That manifesto has been enacted in full by the Anglicans. I don’t understand why people remain in the RCC, usually restless and unhappy if there is an alternative available with all the desired characteristics already in place. What keeps people in the RCC? Is it inertia, habit, familiarity, family ties, ethnic sense of belonging, or negatively because, despite all the ecumenical talk, they think the RCC is best and there isn’t a real sacramental life in the Anglicans?

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11.19
Why should any of us move denominations because we see the teforms we desire rolledout for decades there. It’s because people love the RCC that they want those reforms enacted in their church.

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It’s selfish to want the Church to change to be like the Anglicans, when you could go join the Anglicans.
What about those who love the RCC and don’t want it to change? If we end up with a clone of Anglicanism where do people who don’t like that go? You end up with two similar churches – the RCC and the Anglicans – with nowhere for those who don’t like that approach.
It’s like someone who shops in Sainsbury’s who thinks Adsa is much better, and instead of going to Asda, they demand that Sainsbury’s change to be like Asda, so then there is no Sainsbury’s any more.

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2.40. Please admit that you don’t think the CofE is good enough and you think the RCC is better.

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2.53
Your argument is circular. It’s not because the Anglican Communican is reformed that RCC would wish to reform itself. On the contrary, it is because reform is a good in itself, that the RCC would work for it. Daily conversatio morum and ecclesia semper reformanda are two encient concepts which illustrate the desirability of perennial renewal.

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Celibacy is publicly non optional but privately optional – it’s a cloak or a device which fuels hypocrisy and double life.

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Say goodbye to celibacy say hello to losing the property portfolio and cheap labour (I say labour but they just say Mass).
Celibacy has everything to do with church property and nothing to do with holiness etc.
Jesus taught some would be eunuchs for the kingdom – emphasis on some, true eunuchs are rare – they are a sexual, that’s what a eunuch is, they’ve been castrated.
I’ve been around clergy all my life I’ve never met one not damaged or rendered dysfunctional by celibacy.

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Why have you spent your life round clergy? Are you one of those people who in pre-Reformation times used to be called abbey lubbers?

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Thought provoking to say the, you have all those non Catholic married vicars it doesn’t stop abuse,divorce etc. While you say people have no problem with you being a partnered priest I don’t believe that, many would. So I say NEVER!, NEVER! NEVER!

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The debate about mandatory celibacy has long since been won and lost. Won by those who know – the majority, including the majority of clergy themselves – that mandatory celibacy imposed on men called to be priests but who do not have a vocation to remaining celibate for the rest of their lives, is a hobbling and damaging imposition that does incalculable damage to the priest himself as well as to those who become collateral damage to his dysfunction. Lost by those who continue to argue that celibacy is something that is a “purer” and more elevated way of life for priesthood than a life rooted and grounded in family, commitment, love and affection. Only for the severe minority is celibacy a calling and charism. They are few and far between. We all know by now that much of the dysfunctional behaviour of clergy which we are aware of, including criminal and abusive behaviour, is often linked to the clerical lifestyle which is inextricably linked to the single life style of celibacy. Other aspects of the clerical culture, we also know, contribute to this clerical malaise – failing, inadequate and amateur seminary education and formation, an outdated sense of elevation, specialness, unaccountability and ontological nonsense, a rotten clerical culture etc. The question is, when confronted with this undeniable reality, the Church is incapable of addressing the situation and removing the requirement of mandatory celibacy. It must be clear that young men, often wiser it would appear than their clerical mentors, who feel that they have a call to ministry and service, chose to avoid priesthood and find other ways of being of service. They instinctively know the damage that mandatory celibacy will do to them. Many of those few who do come forward have other issues of personality and psychology that compound the celibacy issue. I have to say I struggle to remember the last time I met a ‘normal’ seminarian ! Hence, a dearth of priests, and the structural collapse of the Church model we have been used to. That situation is not going to get any better. There is never going to be a new springtime of vocations. I am at the age when I can retire from active ministry. I have been asked to carry on because there is nobody to take over from me. I could do so. But, why should I ? I have done what I promised to do. The Church has not done what it promised to do, to ensure that the work that I have done will be continued by others. There are no others to follow. So, if I carry on the inevitable will happen whether I carry on or not. I am angry about that. But, I am not prepared to sacrifice myself for something that does not need to be, and to see the inevitable happen no matter what I do. I am of the view now that the Church needs to hit the buffers and have a train wreck of itself, before it will sit up and see that things need changing. My absence will, I hope, result in that happening sooner than later. By the way, celibacy is only one issue. There are many more that need facing and confronting. That;s for another day, perhaps.

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Why did these men who believe that they don’t have a vocation to be celibate or find it impossible, then go on to join a celibate priesthood? It’s like a pacifist joining the army and then complaining about having to go to war.

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11.31
Perhaps because their sense of calling to be a priest was also strong, if not stronger.

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But in the current discipline that means being celibate. They want to be a priest on their terms. It’s like if you freely applied for a job as a sales rep and you have to, as part of your job, travel from place to place but you refuse to travel because you cannot do it but say that your calling to be a sales rep is stronger than the employer’s requirement that you travel.

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Maybe, but nobody forced them to be a priest. If they cannot meet the requirements of priesthood they shouldn’t waste everyone’s time and make themselves unhappy by getting ordained. It’s setting themselves up to fail. There should not be a cafeteria approach where you say I’ll have the bits of the priestly life I like and ignore or break the other bits. A man getting married should go into it expecting to be faithful and not think I want to marry this woman but I’ll ignore the “no adultery” rule because my calling to be married is stronger than any prohibition on adultery.

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4.31
The answer lies in your first sentence. It’s a matter of current discipline which can and will be changed by the stroke of a pen.

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And I might win the lottery in a year’s time. Until then, I live responsiblly and modestly. Same with the discipline of celibacy. Those are the rules now. Those who enter a celibate office in the church did so freely and should either live by it or get out.

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Eliminating the celibacy requirement is pointless if most RC priests are homosexual. The relaxation of that provision would have to go hand in hand with accepting same-sex marriage to be meaningful. In any event, RC priests appear to enjoy promiscuity and the thrill of the boiler house, with many retreating into the priesthood wishing to keep their sexual orientation suppressed.

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“… appear to enjoy promiscuity…”
They are the real moral hypocrites.
Taking a vow of celebacy or not is a fork in the road. Further down the road someone can reach another fork in the road through the possibility of genuine committed love.
The permanent deaconite seem to have a common sense approach of married men or celebate men. It’s the template to extend to the priesthood and allowing for women also.
Blessings of love for the LGBT community in Germany was a wonderful gesture. I am respectful of the LGBT community but also respectfully want to say that there is a Natural Reproductive Order. The Church teaching and advocating of the Natural Reproductive Order can live in unity with blessing the love of the LGBT community.
The controversial point for some would be that if their way of life is not of the Natural Reproductive Order, they wouldn’t be able to join the clerical state.
Pax.

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Gay priests have to stay in the closet because they might get thrown out if they come out. Also they don’t want to tell aged parents. In a way, greater social acceptance of gay people and their relationships has contributed to the fall in numbers in Maynooth because fewer people now need to get into that particular closet.

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Most parents these days would prefer their sons to acknowledge their sexual orientation and live a fulfilled life rather than being associated with an institution closely aligned with the sexual abuse of children.

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There is nothing wrong in principle about having gay clergy but the real problem is that the church requires priests, bishops and cardinals to be celibate and those same clergy are deliberately defying the rules for personal pleasure. Is the reason for celibacy precisely consistent with making a sacrifice and choosing God rather than an individual to devote their lives to.

The problem is not celibacy per se but the individual choosing to fall away from devotion, to fall away from following church rules.

It comes down to choice.

If these individuals choose not to be celibate then they are self-selecting not to be a priest but it seems to me that the church is wrong to sustain them in a contrived state as this undermines the church and disregards the flock.

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11.34
But that is precisely the issue. The question at the heart of this matter is whether the church should require those aspiring to serve as priests to be celibate. The Second Lateran Council (1139) was the first ecumenical council to make clerical celibacy obligatory.

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3.06 pm
But if all homosexuals are required to be celibate, then the homosexual’s promise of celibacy at Ordination is otiose.

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11.34
Pope Francis and a majority of Irish Catholics support civil unions for gay people, and marriage in the latter’s case.

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There has been a conspiracy theory going round for at least several decades that Freemasons/Communists/Whatever have infiltrated the church with the intention of destroying it from within. The theory dictates that the whole Vatican 2 thing is part of this infiltration.
This is of course totally wrong.
If you want to destroy the church all you have to do is insist the clergy play by the rules and kick out any that don’t. Bingo, no sacraments within a generation.
Because they never have played by the rules (human nature hasn’t changed since the sexual revolution, merely opportunity and honesty have become more prevalent) and the church never has been honest about this.

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9:59 am
For more on ecclesiastical freemasonry see Paul L Williams books ; The Vatican Exposed: Money, Murder, and the Mafia published in 2003 or “Operation Gladio: The Unholy Alliance between the Vatican, the CIA, and the Mafia,” published in 2014, which is being developed into a mini-series for American Movie Classics. His most recent work, “Among
the Ruins: The Decline and Fall of the Roman Catholic Church “, was published in 2017.
Also see, David A. Wemhoff book “John Courtney Murray, Time/Life, and the American Proposition: How the CIA’s Doctrinal Warfare Program Changed the Catholic Church” published in 2015. (990 pages).
See: https://www.ordo-militaris.net/the-expose-of-the-masonic-control-of-the-catholic-church/

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Good blog today Pat. I have no issue with our priest being gay and he use to have a boyfriend who would be seen with him regularly until they fell out. But the man was married to a woman and that’s what most of us had a problem with, instead of finding himself a nice single man he wanted a married one. Yet he refused to bless me and my third husbands wedding after we got married in the local registry office.

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The whole economic model of the Church would have to change if clergy were to marry and have families. That’s not insuperable. It would just mean different priorities and economic strategies. In Arundel and Brighton, married clergy (invariably ex-Anglicans) are remunerated according to the C of E guidelines – eg £27500 a year, plus housing and some other allowances. Not a princely sum, but an idea of what it would cost to have a married priest with family as the parish priest. Celibacy really only came in to the western Church as a means of protecting Church property and avoiding its alienation. Then it was given a spiritual gloss. Now it has the whiff of decadence, hypocrisy and lack of integrity. Time for a change.

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This is a total myth, often repeated, that celibacy was brought in to prevent properties being alienated to the widow and children of priests.

Tied properties that go with the job have been around for centuries. You just put in the contract that the property is associated with an office and if someone holding the office dies it reverts to the owner to be filled by the next office holder. Lots of important offices with tied accommodation have been run that way for a very long time, whether that be in the military, in alms houses, or vicarages or stately homes or colleges where servants have houses.

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Indeed, the Orthodox and Protestant churches have managed for many centuries to deal with property issues so why it would be a problem for the Catholic church in particular is very unclear. There are reasons for celibacy but I don’t think property is one of them.

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3:01 I can’t comment on why it would be a problem, but if you look at the church’s management of its clergy, investments, safeguarding, archives and so on, frankly I don’t think the perfectly simple matter of property management would fare any better. It’s almost as if nothing is looked after sensibly in the church!

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11.27 am
But that would mean that a widow and the children would be homeless.

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7:21 That’s how tied property works. In reality if you live in a house belonging to your job you own another one and let it out to pay the mortgage.

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7:21 That’s how tied property works. In reality if you live in a house belonging to your job you own another one and let it out to pay the mortgage.
Out here in the real world we don’t expect that mummy will feed us and house us, we have to provide them for ourselves. Or did you think we go out to work for the fun of it or because we felt called?

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This celibacy thing will not go away until there is radical reform with the church. Francis is not the man for that. We will need a new young pope to that the RCC into a different direction. That being said will be the start of the break up of the RCC.

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8.21 pm
The point here though is do Priests earn enough to get a mortgage plus deposit in order to rent it out? The amount you borrow depends on how much you earn.

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I don’t plan on watching it, Bp Pat. Probably fifty-one minutes of old queens and closet cases protesting too much.

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My husband was a cleric and has made an amazing husband. Bravest man I’ve ever met.

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I am all in favour of optional celibacy. My opinion has nothing to do with dysfunction allegedly caused by celibacy. My simple reason is based on what the Church teaches about celibacy- that it is a gift or a charism. A gift cannot be foisted on someone or it ceases to be a gift. A gift must be freely given and received; no strings attached. An integral part of that freedom is the knowledge of what that gift will cost the recipient; the challenges it brings with it. I feel sure there are some who have the affective maturity for it, but not all, and maturity is a journey… God doesn’t twist arms, so why should the Church?

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How is it foisted on them? They choose a celibate job when they were ordained or took solemn vows, afters years of preparation. There was no coercion and they can leave. They are not prisoners.

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11.46am
That’s what I ask but, whatever makes it so, one cannot have mandatory charisms in my view. Making it voluntary enables the aspirant free to embrace it if they feel so inclined (and I mean inclined at a deeper level than on a whim), and those who cannot are free not to. It engenders greater integrity before God and the faithful IMO.

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If they cannot embrace it, don’t sign up. We don’t have conscription to seminaries.

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13.03
We do. It’s called mandatory celibacy for all who believe they are drawn to serve as priests.

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There’s no conscription. They signed up for it. They didn’t have to sign up for it. Nobody made them do so. They can leave if it is too difficult.

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They just love being martyrs.
If you are thinking of becoming a priest in the Latin rite and can’t adhere to celibacy you don’t have a vocation to priesthood.

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8.36
Just because you think so doesn’t count for any more than that. The discernment of spirits is not succeptible to dictat. You could be a married Protestant priest, for starters.

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Until celibacy is accepted within the church they should be named, not shamed. There is no shame in sex, and no shame in not being able to legally control yourself with it, with a consenting adult. But to name a priest or bishop should be done with evidence and not speculation. How will we gather that evidence though?

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10.43: A most elucidating contribution to the debate!! If only. You are an idiot with this suggestion. Just a plonker. Do you desire fir vigilantes to parade outside presbyteries? Really?

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1:44 Thank you for your intelligent, practical, and thought-provoking contribution to the discussion.

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I had no idea it was that low, thanks for posting that. Presumably he meant any sexual activity of any sort, even masturbation?

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Ah, the usual tactic of trying to discredit him. Bound to happen since as an ex cleric he was an insider so knew full well you’re all full of shit.

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Celibacy should never have started in the first place. It is silly on the one hand and ridiculous on the other. It makes no sense whatsoever.

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Pat I think my old priest became an alcoholic Cus he was lonely. Celibacy needs to be scrapped. All priests should rise up and demand to be allowed to have sex.

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Nonsense, who thinks in their house one night, oh I’m lonely let’s go and get a bottle of whiskey to chat to

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This is one of many reasons I left the job I loved. If celibacy was scrapped I would definitely take my old job back. I love my sex life and while I may not be particularly good at it, it’s enjoyable and pleasurable all the same.

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The mere fact that ex-priest is also alleged to be a ‘serving’ (who? His boyfriend?) Priest yet keeps trolling on here rather confirms what we’ve all been saying about priests for years.
Now wait for it:
He’s one rotten apple.
Look at the many good priests. (LOL)
Trolling is a problem in society.
Pay attention to yourself.
He’s entitled to privacy.
Be merciful.
He didn’t know trolling is illegal….
And so on.

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Pat ya all should do what ya all want the majority of ya all are good folk so turn them blind eyes ask god for forgiveness and ya will all be sweet like

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Sipe wasn’t obsessed with sex he was a psychiatrist whose clinical and academic expertise was in sexology and particularly clerical sex offenders – although if your a cleric I can quite understand why you would speak I’ll and calumny of him – hey a price worth paying and a blessed state I’d say.

Yes Sipe published the per cent figure some time ago – it no doubt is less now.

Celibacy is the church’s vice it covers over a multitude of sins!!

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Lots of people are involuntary celibates eg those in prison, some divorced RCs who don’t want to remarry, people left on the shelf, elderly widows, carers etc, those who can’t seem to get or keep a partner. They have to get on with it and try and make the best of it and not turn to drink or have the “poor me” attitude that some priests can have. Many marriages also are sex-free zones and often there’s no real compansionship either.
Single person households are a huge demographic – the clergy are not some particularly oppressed group.

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If priests were allowed to be married, then what would stop them making a mockery of the church and having sex at the altar or in the church benches. I know of one priest that has had sex on the altar already.

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Please don’t judge me, and I have asked for forgiveness everyday after I did it. But I did have sex on the altar but it wasn’t with a priest; I don’t think there are any out there that would even do that.

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Jesus Pat, you’re allowing some stupid comments today.
Discernment of spirits, my Lord bishop, is everything!

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I don’t know how you priests do it. Fair play to you all, my wife passed away in March and I have been celibate since, and not through choice. It’s so hard you must have good will power.

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Hardly a brave priest. His answer is bland in the extreme, and any explanation which conveniently omits the Holocaust of children by priests isn’t based in reality.

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I am a single straight man, and at times I feel I am also celibate as most females are only after relationships or something more meaningful, which I do not want, and as it’s harder to have fun with a woman I have dabbled with gay men, as they are always up for ‘fun’ and like the fact that I’m straight but merely using them, why is it that the majority of gay men have no issue with ‘being used’ so to speak or what do they get out of it? From one extreme of celibacy to the other of real looseness I think we should all try and find a balance that suits our needs.

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You’ve dabbled with gay men?
And you’re straight?
No you aren’t honey bunch and the only one you’re codding is yourself .
Celibacy for the priesthood should be optional and it will come in time.

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4:32 Many straight men dabble with gay men when they can’t have sex with women. It is well documented in prisons for example and they always return to women when they can. Prison gay is not gay. It also happens to be the non-enduring gay activity which is acceptable for seminary according to Pope Benedict.

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3.46:…We should all play around to what suits our needs…or find a balance that suits our needs!!! Tell us when you pick up STI’s and all kinds of viruses by your loose playing around. Then you’ll know what true “balance” should be – a monogamous relationship! Are you actually that dim?

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In the words of the infamous Lily Savage: “I’m celibate, well; I sell a bit here, a bit there!” 🤣
.
Anyway… when they’re annoyed to hell and ratling around like rats on a sinking ship: just remember: Nobody is immune from the consequences of abusing children or vulnerable adults — inducing those who enable and facilitate such horrific crimes.
In addition: the law always catches up, too! X
.
https://youtu.be/QqjLFmA4WHQ

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5.01pm
Yes, abuse of children and vulnerable adults – male or female is horrendous. Lets all remember that males suffer a lot of abuse also in our society which is unacceptable in this day and age.

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Clerics, etc. @5.01pm
Your second paragraph is a bit confusing but as regards abuse of children and vulnerable adults, male and female, let us not forget our Clergy and Religious suffer a lot of abuse at the hands of others and this too should not be tolerated. God Bless All our Religious for their Commitment to their work in these troubled times.

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My local parish priest is absolutely gorgeous, Fr Rory Sheehan, he’s attractive to woman and man alike, and yet he lives as a celibate. Should he choose not, he could have his choice of who he wants.

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I don’t know what they tell seminarians nowadays, but when I was in Maynooth in the 1980s there was vanishingly little discussion of celibacy or how to live that life. We were taught a great deal about prayer and spirituality, and of course had our academic formation, but the subject of celibacy was hardly mentioned. Perhaps people were too embarrased or it was thought too personal. The problem may also have been the presence of lay students, so the theology faculty couldn’t or didn’t want to raise matters purely concerning sems and celibacy. There was precious little discussion of what a priest was meant to be like. You’d get snippets in the talks by the deans and their spiritual directors, and visiting retreat masters could have raised it, but they mostly chose not to.

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5.26
We were told in Second Divinity Moral in the 1980s that priestly and religious celibacy was a higher calling because it left the person ‘free for the things of God.”
Thinking about the lives my parents lived, I didn’t believe it then and I don’t believe it now.

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7.34pm. Interesting. I left in First Divinity so maybe if I’d stayed longer I would have heard more about it.

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I’m not aware of any research into celibacy.
Clergy often say it wasn’t mentioned during their training which is remarkable – talk about elephant in the room!!
Not even how to cope etc or live it out. Bizarre but classic Catholic position – a remarkable ability to insist they are ‘experts in humanity’ on the one hand and on the other never talk about difficult or challenging issues.
For example:
Masturbation as a natural outlet (problematic for Catholic priest as teaching condemns natural and human behaviour).
Always struck me as perverse that the one man in the parish who struggles most with mastication is dispensing absolution for something he is obsessed by – now that is truly perverse.
Adolescent lock and specify sexual immaturity is common place.
Pornography – I reckon the majority of clergy struggle with a porn addiction and know Porn Hub like the back of their sticky palms.
Gay Apps especially Grinder is a Go To and Must Have.
Over eating; massive issue for many clergy – morbid obesity huge problem.
Just check out new canons for Brum – hardly a picture of health and a life of moderation and abstinence.
Shut down one appetite gives permission to indulge another – gluttony is a clerical vice and some eat themselves into an early grave.
Emotionally stunted – clerical celibates are often profoundly lacking in EQ and empathy and are no more than confirmed bachelors.
Pardophiles and Homosexuals are rife among Catholic clergy – it attracts them like bees to honey and celibacy is the point of entry.
Celibacy itself is a kind of sexual perversion but no Pope has the balls to ban it (no pun intended).

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@ 7:00 pm What a wonderful set of photographs of an important occasion in the Archdiocese of Birmingham. Priests called to the office of canon wholly deserve their installation to be dignified and reverent. So lovely to see all the working bishops attending and especially good to see Bishop Emeritus Bishop Kenney demonstrating his commitment to the Archdiocese. He added that extra special touch to the service, Wonderful!

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Nursery looks like she’s wearing polka dot underpants on her face. Wright has bloated.

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5.50: Some interesting observations but are you just guessing or speaking out of personal ‘priesthood’ experience? Would be interesting to know the answers.. I believe that the culture we were trained in was emotionally and spiritually damaging in that, while we studied the arts, psychology, philosophy, theology and a little spirituality, we were not ever guided into a spirituality of celibacy, Diocesan priesthood or humanity. We may have excelled in exams, sports, pastoral appointments and observed certain rituals but the deeper awareness of our sexuality and the layers of potentially emotional and sexual challenges were never dealt with adequately, especially within the context of life long celibacy. I was blessed to have worked with guys who embraced celibacy in a very life giving way and whose ministry was exemplary, spiritually and pastorally. I later recalled how these men I speak of prayed very frequently!! I worked with others for whom celibacy was difficult, including for myself. I think we just got on with life even though we knew in our hearts that we were not being true to our vows. We struggled on to better places in our understanding. The experience of years with counselling and therapy, spiritual guidance, discipline of work and good friendships helped to sustain us in the misery that celibacy was. I believe the majority of us know there is a fundamental dysfunctionality about celibacy which we live with. It creates a huge deep discordant, harsh and cold humanity and unless we stop, pray and reflect each day the problems remain. Celibacy can be embraced but for most of us it is challenging and has damaged our humanity. I feel outraged when any priest today, when faced with the prospect of necessary change or challenge within the parish, often unable to properly listen or respond, resorts to asserting his relevance and importance over the mere laity!!! To me this behaviour is a symptom of “celibacy damage” and we have far too much of this, sadly.

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1. Mandatory celibacy is discredited and damaging
2. Optional celibacy gives those with a genuine calling charism to the celibate life the possibility of following that vocation.
3. The obsession of the RC Church with sexual behaviour, sexual orientation, and its propensity to legislate and moralise on the same is outdated and irrelevant to the vast majority of people, including Catholics, who will make their own mind up about such things in good conscience.
4. The RC Church’s theology of sex and sexuality is out of kilter with the science and with the experience and practice of the vast majority of people of good conscience.
5. Homosexual and diverse clergy is the way forward, along with married and celibate clergy. It will come. It is just a question of when. When the RC Church attends to no 4.
6. The RC Church has to realise that it has little or no moral voice in many of these matters, having squandered its moral capital by its egregious crimes and hypocrisy. It is largely marginalised in people’s lives, including most Catholics.
7. On another note, do you really think people will be listening to the bishops of E & W and their recent pronouncement on people prioritising going to Mass on Sunday rather than indulge in leisure, sport or shopping ?! I think people have made their own minds up already, and will work out for themselves what the balance of their lives should be on a Sunday. There is a whiff of the arrogant “do as I say” about this latest out of touch pronouncement.
8. Oh, I could go on and on and on…..!

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Gay priest’s who talk about the sacrifice of celibacy are hypocritical – what exactly are they giving up. Trips to the boiler house, grinder, or gay marriage? All of which is illicit for a catholic in any event.

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6.39…You may as well have said, “It’s all over.. “!! To whom Lord shall we go? A question that is more and more relevant for priests as we witness an almost complete lack of faith and religious belief in society. Consequently, the theological and philosophical arguments for celibacy will go in and in and in without any benefit. Priests of the 70’s/80’s like myself ate just at sea but will keep to our commitments as best we can, knowing the Church and priesthood We joined are fatally wounded, primarily by the abuses of power, status, authority and vocation …Indeed, Lord, to whom shall we go?

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This is why Daisy Chain NI was created. So these priests could live out their sexual needs in the discretion amongst themselves. Safety blanket. But one has found love with an outsider and is ready to break from the role altogether and panic is setting in amongst the ones he will be leaving behind for this love interest. Will he remain silent or expose the others is dependent on how Lisbreen treat him.

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Purcell’s kinky requirements are a good example of the trouble engulfing the Catholic Church. His nighttime activities are being ignored.

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Honestly though what does celibacy even mean?
They think of it as meaning unmarried but that’s just being single – what pisses me off about celibacy is in order to get married we’ve got to undergo marriage instruction from a man who next to absolutely zero about sex, marriage and family.
I wouldn’t mind if they listened to married people instructing them on the merits of celibacy and how to live it out.
See they don’t like it when the shoe is on the other foot.

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Pat would you say there to be a link between innuendo and a lack of celibacy on a Priests behalf?

Surely priests should not be discussing or joking about sexual things or why would it constantly on their mind?

Our parish priest is widely known to make innuendo remarks all the time and I feel this highly unprofessional.

My sister and I were chatting to him in the summer past, and my sister said “it’s a great day to be out and about” and he responded “get the bikes out and get riding all day” and started chuckling really rather creepily.

It was so uncomfortable, and as a rather big lady, I’m sure he would be aware my days of cycling a bike are long gone.

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Well dearie as a rather large lady myself, can I recommend that you get out on the bike for a nice run in the sun? Its the best exercise around and does wonders for the waistline xxx

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Excuse me are you patronising me?
Are you a troll?
Get on my bike for a nice run?
How very dare you!

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7.00: You are out of touch with today’s marriage preparation. Most couples attend a pre marriage course which is run by professional personnel – trained marriage/relationship counsellors/therapists, financial management personnel, conflict resolution counsellors including communication techniques. Our role as priests is to prepare the couple spiritually which we do. This involves helping them choose their ceremony, music, prayers, rehearsal and completing necessary paperwork for Registers. Couples will already have been given the Church’s sacrament of marriage teachings by the chaplain on the preparation course. No one forces any teaching in anyone. It is merely stated as part of our Catholic beliefs. Thankfully many couple express their graruryde for all developed they receive and are grateful for the time we give them. Our homilies are more often a reflection in the word of God and words of good wishes, encouragement and an affirmation of God’s love for them. Your caricature is if the 50’s and 60’s, you cynical fool.

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@7:34: Father, and I use that term presumtiously on the basis of your own comment which seems to indicate your “clerical status”. Ahem! I certainly don’t use it intending to convey any respect on my part.
I don’t think respect is called for from the fact that you yourself show scant respect for Anon @ 7:00 pm who may indeed be “out of touch”, as you yourself acknowledge in your opening words.
It is your final words that betray your nature, and indeed the trait common to your clerical ilk: clerical exceptionalism and perceptions of superiority.
Anon @ 7:00pm is no “cynical fool”: just someone expressing a very commonly held view of RC clergy.
MMM

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I would like to apologise to the large lady if she thinks I insulted her about going for a run on the bike. I’m so sorry dearie- I didn’t mean any harm. I meant going for a spin on the bike. I have gone down two stone feom the cycling but its still a drop in the ocean. Sure i look like a beast hehe but honestly its good for body and mind. If you want to be part of our wee cycle group we go out by crossgar every Saturday dearie xxx. Soz again xx

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8.02: MMM: I have every right to defend my role as a priest, moreso when caricatures are invented. Of course 7.00pm is a cynical fool! He is totally cynical re: pre marriage preparation courses which are organised by the Church but involve professional personnel from a wide range of expertise. The priest’s role is simply to state the Church’s teachings on marriage and the local priest usually helps a couple to organise their church ceremony which is always a delight to do for couples. So, let’s not get carried away with cynical, foolish embellishments as of 7.00pm. Furthermore, since you are no longer a Catholic, the content of Catholic pre marriage course a is of no concern to you. MMM, even supposedly learned folk can be embarrassingly out of touch!!

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Er I don’t think I’m remotely out of touch as you so pastorally and charmingly (not) put it – I think you will find that the ecclesiastical jurisdiction of the RCC that I refer to, does not afford marriage candidates the highly polished preparation to which you refer.
England and Wales are ahead of the Republic of Ireland in many ways (as is befitting a far larger country and the fifth global economy) however regarding marriage preperation I can assure you that one single dried up old celibate pronounces on every aspect of sex, marriage and family life, of which he knows diddley squat.
You stick to what you know and I will stick to what I have seen and heard within my own jurisdiction – out of touch, my problem is I know too much.

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Calling someone a cynical fool on an anonymous blog is both cynical and foolish -but I bet your v gifted at giving marriage preparation – you optimistic sage!!

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8.27: Diddley Squat: The pre marriage preparation course a in Dublin Diocese are professionally well organised. The vast majority of couples usually express gladness for taking part and think they are very useful. The role of a priest in the parish is to help the couple prepare for the Sacrament of marriage. Thus time is not one of lecturing or sermonizing but one of pastoral care. And I believe most priests give that care. Didley Squat, I come from a large family, have incredible experiences from growing up, of observing interactions between my parents and siblings, of having wonderful couple friends and families who have taught me much. I would never think that I am super qualified to offer guidance to any couple. What I can offer is the wisdom of my learned experiences. Don’t always believe your own propaganda!

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@8:54: Are you the same commentator @ 9:04? Even if you are not, you, and @ 9:04 display the same characteristics. These are what I referred to in the final paragraph of my comment @ 8:02.
As has been said here by many different commentators, and many many times: you clerical lot just don’t get it.
Now if you’re going to attempt to “come back” at my comment, kindly have the courtesy to identify yourself with a pseudonym: it is tedious trying to follow who says what.
MMM

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What the eff has marriage preparation for Catholics got to do with you, MMM? You seem in very bad mood today.

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9.53: MMM.. and it’s veey tedious trying to folliw you with your repetitive narrarives which are usually very anti church. That’s your cross!!

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MMM at 9.53: You can’t afford to attribute the adjective “tedious” to commenters. You are preeminently a most tedious contributor as is evident today. You frequently repeat the same narratives. You show little respect for others who disagree with your stance. Your usage of “you clerical lot” is fine because it gives me the legitimacy to refer to you as, “you atheistic lot”….

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@10:10: your profanity well demonstrates your own limitations.
Expressing one’s personal opinion on an issue in an articulate informed manner shows a certain level of intelligence and ability: questioning, or rather, like you, swearing at another’s opinion simply demonstrates intolerant inability
MMM.

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@ 10:23: Is it illiteracy, alcohol, or simplicity that shapes your articulation?
If it’s dyslexia, then I apologise.
MMM

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I remember my parish deacon being quite frustrated at the launch of the ordinariate. He was married so couldn’t become a priest and yet here were lots of married men being ordained.

Very sad really.

He often celebrated a liturgy of the word and Holy Communion of the presanctified and conducted funerals and Benediction.
Would his being ordained into the priesthood have hurt anyone?

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Sometimes in life it is not all about getting what we want, 9.05pm. Perhaps the deacon should be told that?

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8.54 – why do you stay in the Church, seeing as how you clearly don’t like and its clergy, and it is making you very angry. That’s not good for you.

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The clue is in the title ‘permanent’ deacon. Why should he be confused?? He sounds like most permanent deacons – full of his own importance.

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You’re right @ 11:54, it should have been @ 10:20 I ought to have referred to. My mistake.
Trying to keep track of anonymous comments on a smartphone can be difficult when some of these more inconsiderate and often more vacuous regular commentators, display neither the courtesy nor intelligence to provide a pseudonym to enable debate of their comments. Some of their comments resemble exasperated expletive snorts best ignored rather than attempting to engage them in debate. Maybe their abilities are so limited that they don’t realise this, or perhaps they don’t want any reply comment, and simply want to ‘let off steam’: …..which I think is also sometimes referred to as ‘hot air.’
MMM

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@11:54: I ought to have pointed out to you @ 12:40 that to confuse numbers has nothing to do with dyslexia. The word you could have better used is ‘dyscalculia’.
Do add that one to your no doubt impressive store of useful knowledge 👍
MMM

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8.54pm

I think your confusing your own propaganda with my own lived experience. My experience is different from yours and therefore my insight is different- it’s hard I know to accept that people have a different opinion – which you call propaganda and I call my experience.
Diluting clerical input into marriage is disingenuous and cynical – they are like the IRA they haven’t gone away – their toxic input and presence pervades a sacrament they actually don’t and can’t administer as the couple do it for each other.
By the way the UK isn’t Ireland!!!

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The dream of the RC church is a total eradication of any other world view. This is why they are always moaning that they are being oppressed, because they want total dominance. They create this dominance first in people’s minds by trying to eliminate everything else – for example in Ireland it would be very easy to forget that the Roman church split off from the Catholic Church in the eleventh century!

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10.10: MMM is undergoing marriage counselling…or else he’s been in his bar stool too long 🥂🍻🍺🥂🍻🥃🥂🍻🍻🍻🍸🍸🍸 😊🤣🤣🤣😂🤣..

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Thank you Lolita, ….at least for reading my comments. But at approaching 80, I certainly don’t need marriage counselling! And I haven’t been in a bar since March last year, after first covid lockdown.
Your comment just shows how wide ‘off the mark’ are some commentators here who offer little cogent debate, ….just vacuous ad hominem snorts.
MMM

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Anon at 9.28: Read 10.00pm..I think you are all confused, mixed up. Diddley Squat or Fiddley Dixit or Regis Magnus – whatever you want to be called – calm down.

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10pm

Your confusing conviction and clarity with ‘anger’ for surely even anger can be righteous – you know nothing about me how can you therefore deduce whether I should stay or leave – Jesus drove out the market traders from the Temple – should he leave the temple?

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