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SACRISTAN WINS TRIBUNAL CASE AGAINST PP WHO UNFAIRLY DISMISSED HIM.

Fr John Mccarthy

After 26 loyal years service as a sacristan Mr Michael Keohane was dismissed by Fr Mccarthy who used the drop in church income to justify the sacking.

But the WRC – Workplace Relations Commission in the Republic found against the PP and ordered that the sacristan be given his job back.

Sacristan Michael Keohane

The WRC adjudicator, Ms Patsy Doyle said: “the justice of this case dictates an order of re-engagement”.

Fr McCarthy had dissed the quarter of a century sacristan by way of a registered letter!

The tribunal backdated the re-engagement back to July of this year.

Ms Doyle found that Mr Keohans “was unfairly selected for redundancy amidst an attempt to address the diminution of income at the church”.

The church

The WRC also found that Fr Mccarthy had cleary excluded Mr Keohane from discussions around his redundancy.

Fr McCarthy was also angry because Mr Keohane had protested at the church gates.

Fr McCarthy said he could not entertain Mr Keohane’s return.

Fr McCarthy is awaiting legal advice as to whether he can appeal the WRC’s judgement to the Labour Court.

PAT SAYS

For a long time in Ireland bishops have been dictators in their dioceses and parish priests dictators in their parishes.

These “men” were invincible and untouchable.

And the Garda and lawyers and judges let them away with blue murder.

But the times they are a changing.

As the size and influence of the RCC decreases and Ireland becomes moreand more a European democracy the church, its hierarchs and its clergy will become more and more subject to civil and criminal law and its courts and tribunals.

This is a very, very good development.

When Daly terminated me in 1986 I did drag him before the Industrial Tribunal and High Court.

But that was 35 years ago and things were very much not up to scratch.

Anyone who thinks they have endured an injustice a the hands of any one or any organisation should have recourse to civil proceedings.

This now includes the once exempted, Roman Catholic Church and it various “operatives”.

118 replies on “SACRISTAN WINS TRIBUNAL CASE AGAINST PP WHO UNFAIRLY DISMISSED HIM.”

Clergy dictators and bullies like McCarthy still protest after the civil tribunal has ruled against them. McCarthy will still not entertain the Sacristan’s return so he needs to be dragged back through the system again kicking and screaming. His Bishop needs to take responsibility. On the issue regarding Sacristans I believe the two Sisters at the Pro were also unjustly treated and pushed out Pat.

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Pat, I am glad the sacristan won his case. This priest acted very irresponsibly, cowardly (by sending a registered letter) and selfishly. There is a decrease in funding since the pandemic forcing parishes to reassess their expenditure but there should have been a meeting with the sacristan to discuss the situation. It is appalling to think that any priest still behaves in so autocratic a manner after all we’ve been through. As a priest I am horrified that some priests still behave like little dictators, often in the guise of pious drivel. The “father” knows best attitude belongs to the past. Had this P.P. sat with the sacristan and honestly discussed the issue, he wouldn’t be looking like an idiot today.

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I observed a situation bearing strong analogy to this one play out in the same diocese just a few short years ago. The misplaced smugness with which it was handled (or rather consistently mishandled) was not even veiled on the part of that Parish Priest. I smiled when I saw this on Friday evening. The Sacristan understandably felt he needed to pursue it. However, the arrogance and disconnect from reality that often characterises a clerical response is something that an ordinary, decent person can do without in their lives and are unlikely to encounter in any other context. “Why stoop so low to pick up so little.”

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What a wonderful opportunity for a holy priest to show his humility, kindness and gentleness when the sacristan returns to work. Also no bitterness that he’s made a fool of himself. 😜

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Pat, what do priests get from their bishop or congregation when leaving?

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Pat, have you considered attending counselling to work through your issues with Cardinal Daly? Therapy works. When a priest considers his exit strategy he begins training in counselling. However, with all the training in therapy that priestly demeanour is still there. I don’t think there is anything as surreal than an ex priest or nun making a career out of counselling. Do you remember the Dominican priest who set up a counselling centre in Dublin who defaulted on paying revenue commissioners?

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Counselling is a natural fit for many clerics/ex-priests. I would say Bishop Pat is a counsellor – he councils many. There is nothing ‘surreal’ about a person using their natural skills to help people in a professional capacity.

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I have undergone counselling and psychotherapy.

Daly does not overshadow my life.

I only take a swipe at the phoney old bustard now and them.

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There is also a popular (?pious) misconception that counseling will make you literally put something behind you and never have it enter your head again.
These people don’t have an ex wife/husband/mil!

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I went for counselling to a priest in Dundalk after hearing an ex-priest and ex-nun talking about being gay/lesbian. RTE produced a documentary about it. I felt comfortable talking to the counsellor although he was young and inexperienced. I tried to reach out to him last year but receptionist said he was on a study break. I am seeing a female counsellor now.

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@10:18am
All that counseling and psychotherapy shite is a complete and utter waste of time. It would be better during this month of The Holy Souls that in your Charity you prayed for your departed Superiors rather than slagging them off. Think of your own disobedience at that time, any Ordinary would have done the same, if a subordinate was so blatantly disobedient

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I went for counselling and counsellor was a nun. I didn’t go back. I was t comfortable talking about my obsession with porn.

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The reds are furious with underground gossip about to over spill into public domain.

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The Novena preachers were members of LGBT community who trained as psychotherapists. They were not ex religious. I hope you did but go to the “I know you so well” little prick at DCC.

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8.44
Are you talking about a serving Dominican priest? Or a former one? It’s important because if he is still a Dominican we can sharpen the knives and if he is now a layman we can treat him fairly.

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The Reds are not furious as their age profile don’t read or know about this blog.

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The Redemptorists in Limerick provide a great counselling service in Limerick. I went there and it was so beneficial. €10 euro per hour. Counsellors charging €50-80 euro should be ashamed of themselves.

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St. Catherine’s, Tallaght provide an exceptional counselling service. Affordable and donation based. I remember reading about OP running a shrink service in city centre owing the tax man

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@ 3:39pm

If the Novena Preachers were members of the LGBT brigade! They shouldn’t have been allowed to be anywhere near it. If it’s true It is outrageous that these people were allowed to preach at the novena to Our Lady. They are supposed to be priests not psychotherapists.

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More coercive control – namely unaccountable, exceptional, arrogant, arbitrary clerical behaviour which we have seen so often. Well, it is time that the State steps in to arbitrate in these matters, and we will begin to see the Church and its clergy brought in to line with the rest of society. No longer will they be able to act in untrammelled fashion, riding roughshod over people. They won’t like it, but it needs to happen. Why do these clergy think of themselves as set apart from the rest of us, with the freedom to do what they want with no accountability ? The myth of priesthood ! The sooner that state is reformed, the better for us all.

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Dictatorship is very much in full flow here in St Patrick’s Parish Pat. Nasty lot the 3 of them. Scared to say a thing to one as they would all attack you with their hand bags.

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O’Neill is the worst by far, Treanor lets him away with ‘blue murder’ alright, I think he has something over him to be able to get away with the many complaints about him as he does.

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Is he back from being off sick? He lost a powerful load of weight. What are these complaints about? I always found him a pleasant chap

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They still run the roost, us parishioners wanted mass back at 10am on a Sunday but Fr Hitler won’t change it from 11am, clearly the extra hour gives him time to recuperate in bed after his drinking session the night before.

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No mon, no fun, hun! Is it the case the money wasn’t there to pay the sacristan or the PP just wanted rid of him? Did he receive a redundancy payment? I was let go from a job quite recently, my boss called me in on Monday morning and told me the bad news, he paid me till the end of the month, I got a new job the following week, no big deal.

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Are they all dictators in bed though or are they all pussy cats and cave in to their tops? They love the power in their parish and lets face it, sex is power.

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Usually if a man is a bully in the workplace he’s henpecked at home, so I’m sure you’re on to something.

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Anyone who loves the power of being a priest is replacing the lack of sexual power for church power. How powerful are clergy though? Their power and that of the Church is dwindling and has been for years. Look at the north Antrim priest who freely travels the country giving oral sex in lay-bys and public restrooms. What sort of power does he get from that? Who is he?

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1.48: Where in earth did you find this proven conspiracy theory? From which psychological or psychiatric academic research are you quoting, if any? And might you be so kind as to forward through this blog the references for the “academic” research you relied upon for your theory? I wait in hope…I am genuinely interested in validated facts and research.

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Should this ‘job’ not be done on a voluntary basis? The pp in my local area is from a wealthy family who own a local convenient store. Their employees do not tend to be over the age of 21, no child bearing age women and certainly no ugly employees. They are all on zero hour contracts also, very Christian like for him to be a shareholder in this firm.

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I’m glad for him that he won against the corrupt RCC and this bully of a priest. He’s really embarrassed himself that priest.

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Little bully Johnny Gates in Magherafelt got rid of his Sacristan in much the same way. He also got rid of the parish groundsman (two generations) who also tended St John’s Milltown graveyard like his Father before him. It’s a scandal. Sometimes people don’t have the courage to go to a tribunal or civil law and take clergy on.

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The tribunal in the sacristan case acknowledged that the parish’s income had fallen sharply, but it also noted that the parish accounts had been in surplus the previous year and that the diocesan accounts were in surplus.

What was the point of the parish and diocese having reserves for a rainy day and then not wanting to draw on them when the rain came?

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I checked the NI Employment Tribunal website for any Catholic Church related cases. I used the search word “diocese” and one claim came up. It was made by a D&C ex-employee but they withdrew their claim.

When I ran the search using the word “church”, the claims were all against the Presbyterians, including a man who got £10k compo when the Presbyterians sacked him for getting divorced.

https://employmenttribunalsni.co.uk/OITFET_IWS/DecisionSearch.aspx

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The hearing against the Larne priest’s former boss, Bishop Cahal Daly, took place in Bedford House in Belfast. Bishop Daly was contesting Fr Buckley’s application and claimed that a priest was not an “employee” of a bishop. The hearing had to decide if Fr Buckley was an employee covered by the legislation under which the tribunal operated. Fr Buckley believed the case would set a precedent in the UK, as a priest had never brought an application against his bishop. Fr Buckley said the Labour Relations Agency had tried to achieve a conciliation between himself and Bishop Daly. He said he was open to this, but Bishop Daly had not responded to the offer.

LARNE TIMES

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10:36 Paying a salary to a lay employee is not a rainy day for them. Rainy days only apply to the clergy.

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What a bold piece, you could do this every day and there would be endless stories about dictator priests, it truly does attract these personality traits to the job.

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This is a very good point. The church completely fails to deal with the fact that the job description is bound to attract people with various difficulties. I honestly also think after a while in the church the abnormal becomes normal and that influences selection.

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May I take the time to comment that I was not a dictator when I was a cleric. But I do know of many others who are/were and it was unpleasant to witness.

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Well the priest local to us is a dictator when it comes to vulnerable old parishioners but he wouldn’t treat or talk to a young strong man like that, for he knows it wouldn’t be tolerated the coward.

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People in power do not like to be challenged.

I challenged my priest to a fair dig a few years ago Cus of the way he treated my mum.

He didn’t take me up on that challenge but needless to say he never spoke like that again to any of his flock.

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Aye, sure you were spreading that story round the whole town and everyone was laughing at you. You couldn’t dig your way out of a paper bag- and anyway the people who saw it knew that father hadn’t said anything wrong and that your mother is a trouble maker. Pat fair’s fair and this comment is untrue. Fair dig, my eye. No wonder the priest laughed and walked away from you- we all did.

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Pat do you recall a few years ago Fr Fotiy Necheporenko was suspended for slapping a baby on his baptism? I think all these acts of cruelty by priests should be called out.

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It rarely happens that a former employer takes back an employee in this circumstances, as the parties to the dispute say that the relationship has broken down irretrievably. When that happens the employer has to pay higher compensation. Fr McCarthy’s cowardly act will cost the parishoners even more money.
He could have furloughed the sacristan, however the tribunal heard that there was a troubled working relationship between the PP and the sacristan. Did the PP seize on covid as a great opportunity and excuse to get rid of an employee he didn’t get on with?

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My local P.P. is a disturbed pervert who looks at women’s skirts between the legs in mass if they haven’t their legs crossed. The royal family would not feel safe around him

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Not to excuse but some of the pictures are incorrectly labelled as Catholic when they are clearly not. We used to call them the Germans but now they are only the disembodied ‘Nazis’ so as not to offend anyone and no ones quite sure why they were so popular when they were transparently malevolent. The Japanese were far more fanatic.

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Oh My Word! I remember that whole debacle like it was yesterday lol. Marcia the Maddam went on holiday and asked the housekeeper at St. Celiac’s not to put the mortis lock on while she was away as she didn’t know what time she’d be back.
Anyway .. Marcia got back in the early hours and couldn’t get in to her presbytery! She went ape shit and had to walk over to the old vicarage at St. John’s, Tuebrook and spend the night in a spare room at Pauline Nener’s.
The next day Marcia exploded, like OTT, and sacked the housekeeper.
Pauline said Marcia was furious and walking up and down the vicarage in the morning while holding her small hand between the index finger and thumb of her good hand.
Anyway .. the housekeeper took Marcia the Maddam to the tribunal and won, I think she got
Next thing you know, Marcia moved from the parish and became pp somewhere up in Southport.
Oh she’s a scream she is, Marcia. And after a few glasses of rosé her hands go like she’s doing a pre-flight safety demonstration before take-off 😂

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I was staying in the Merchant hotel on a business trip from Derry and spotted two local priests (Derry) checking in also in plain clothes and the same room. They clearly have no problem flaunting their relationship in public.

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I had a routine check up with GUM in RVH as I take responsibility for my sexual health, which we all should do.
I have only been with one person in the last 6 months, quite regularly, he is a man of the cloth.
He gave me pubic lice and has denied that this is his fault. Now I feel like pulling the lid on our fling and exposing him.

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Bishop Pat, although I have on proof, I believe the trolling is being done by the same person or couple of people who set up the imposter site a while ago. The intention is to make the blog and its concerns and readers look ridiculous. I wonder whose interests that serves? Keep going, Bishop, you are needed and of great value.

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3:06
Yes that would make perfect sense.
The Occam’s razor explanation for what is happening here would be that somebody with a grudge against Pat is trolling the blog to harass and discredit him. They are doing so many comments to wear him down and get as many through as possible.
It is going to be someone who has appeared here and has time on their hands on several days a week to post ridiculous spam here. I am not personally acquainted with any church people in Ireland but simply by reading this blog I can think of some suspects.
I would not think this is an orchestrated effort by the hierarchy to discredit Pat, simply because they can’t organise their way out of a paper bag.

Pat on a behavioral basis I would predict that if you make an effort to bin all those comments, initially you will get even more but then they will taper off. Well worth doing, to choke the troll off.

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@2.19pm
Yes Bishop Pat I totally agree with Anon.@2.19pm – it is an everyday occurrence on your blog the same person who uses several pseudonyms and is not a cleric or member of a religious order, taking up valuable time on your blog by posting silly, rude and sometimes vulgar comments to detract from the subject of the day on your Blog. You should for your own sake keep a watch out for these trolls.

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I took a former employer (UK Civil Service) to the employment tribunal. It is a demanding process, with lots of admin, statements, disclosure of records and the potential for three days cross-examination in open court in a hearing that in my case was expected to last three weeks. I was fortunate that my legal cots were met by my union, and I urge every employee to join a union. Most people cannot afford lawyers and end up representing themselves and such people rarely win. You also face ending up in the newspapers.
The ex-employer settled a day before the case was due to begin. No apology or admission of liability was given by the ex-employer but I was given £140,000 by them to end the case, which I considered a win.

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@6.25pm Do you necessarily have to be a diocesan clergyman or religious to contribute to this blog?

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1.39: The four people who took this case wasted money and time. In conscience the four of them should make a substantial contribution to the St. Vincent de Paul Society for Christmas to help the poor and needy. They are nasty in their secularist ideology. Kill God is their new focus.

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Pat who would you say is in the running for D&C Bishop whenever Noel Treanor goes? There are so many greedy Priests out there that long for the Bishops role that many will be disappointed it’s not them.

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D&C VG is ticking all the boxes and widely tipped as an insider. The outsider trial (Noel) has been tried and tested and most are not impressed. Sings for the Nuncio’s guests from time to time.

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What a cheek the old “operative” had, Bp Pat, and now she has star billing on today’s blog to make matters even worse.

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Some times it can be the other way round. Sacristans can be the bullies. The ‘I’ll be here long after you’ attitude. They bully priests, servers, readers, eucharistic ministers and workers on CE schemes. They are untouchable because they have done it forever, for very little and prob live near the church. They can be a nightmare. Best face it head on though rather than send a registered letter!

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In the modern liturgy, which is Calvinist in its starkness, surely there is no need for sacristans? They used to fill coal furnaces before Mass but I assume that’s all replaced by automated oil or gas boilers. The PP should just have said there was no need for a paid sacristan, without reference to the plunging collections.

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@2:25pm
It would be a complete waste of money to employ a sacristan today there is nothing to do in the dreadful modern liturgy that would justify the expense.

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Yes, the old sacristans had to look after the heating, had several altars to attend to, with many Masses on Sundays and even in the week when there were curates, and there was incense and many candle stands to do, plus heavy numerous vestments for High Mass and benediction and the church was a hive of activity with sodalities etc. All of course swept away.

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I was in St Michael’s Church, Enniskillen recently (you know the one where Mgr Peter “Cranmer is a saint” O’Reilly is curate to the real PP, the permanent deacon). As well as seeing that the permanent deacon has not one, but two turgid articles in the parish magazine, I noticed that as soon as you come through the door there are big card readers, so you can make credit and debit card donations. It’s not a great look to have that as the first thing you see.

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The Perm deacon in Enniskillen (ex teacher) is a pain in the ass. He is the real PP and therein is the problem. Lost the run of himself.

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Anon at 2.40pm

Its that priest action and behaviour as a bully who refused to have a discussion with a sarisctan re redundancy issue. Its he who had made the parishioners to pay the price. Thus he’s using parishioners money or their funds without any say so coming from the parishioners themselves.

No accountability at all what so ever as he can do what he likes. That was demonstrated by his actions and his behaviour as well that led to the dismissal of sarisctan per se.

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Rosscarbery…. a beautiful spot. Not far from Glandore… Holiday spot for Mo Mowlam and co back in the day…. lesser known as the parish Brendan Smith was hidden in back in the mid 60s.

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Rosscarbery.. randomly?
Not so random on the day the blog concerns that parish’s clergy and staff.

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Back in the day, in the 1970’s when Mery Roscarberry was boarding, they used to advertise the girls would learn about poultry husbandry and laundering and production of nuns’ veiling.

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I experienced a lot of bullies from deaf boys when very young and also Abbess superior nun who was quite vindictive and a bully par excellence. Her brother worked in RUC.
Many years later, I worked in a dept where there was a spinster who reminded me a lot from the nun from school for deaf boys founded BY Archbishop mc quaid.
She was a bully and stalked the workers around if not doing their work. I saw that re her follow me around as I didn’t like that cos a stalker. I walked out of work when it went too far bordering on the extreme and never came back cos my ex boss wasn’t doing anything to stop her. In fact he was encouraging her to become more as a bully.
I took them civil service dept to court on the basis of constructive dismissal and won. They refused to hand me my P45 cos I was fast worker and could finish work if I wanted to. They wanted me back as they were withholding my P45. It left me in a very bitter taste. But few years later, I met ex worker as he said to me that she continued to bully men at work after I left. Worker who replaced me couldn’t finish their work as it took two days to finish or two employees to finish it off. It seems to me that civil service dept haven’t learned their lessons as regards to bullies.
My ex boss was furious when he saw me as I have no sympathy for him. Was told that he might never get promotion again. Found Irish boss who would be more willing to encourage bullies more so than an English boss.
Thats why I don’t like bullies. Was aware that some priests or bishops were bullies or tyrants, all they deserved to be outed and called out etc. I believe there is one or two Bishops now are bullies or tyrants.
The man in question, who protested outside the church was right cos I remember hearing stories of priests who outed people in the pulpits on Sundays and forced them to stand outside the church after they went to that priest in confession.
That was 1940s and 1950s stories that I heard re rcc treatment and cruelty towards people who went to confessions re big sins.

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3.07: Deaf Guy: why do you feel the need to repeat your stories of life so frequently? Just wondering. You use every topic to introduce your life’s history. This surely can’t be conducive to healing!

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Anon at 7.18pm
Right re not conductive to healing🤷‍♂️🙈.
I tried to highlight history of bullies in rcc, getting their own way as an example or similarly to it re pp in Rosscarberry.
Or PP or bishops in their own fiefdoms as an example.
I rem one priest of ausgustine order checking out people inside church and scanning, order one guy out. This is rcc church for gawd sake which I don’t see normally in other churches.
One way of reducing their power is reduce money or stop giving them money or no donations or wills etc. Cis they can do what they like when it comes to other people’s money without any accountability.

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I find deaf guy’s moaning on and on frustrating. The poor mouth and hard done by mentality makes me zzzzzzzzzz

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DG @ 3:07pm
You’re talking a lot of shite as usual, I wonder who tells you all these lies. No one was called out or had to stand outside the Church after confession in 1950s I know I was their at that time it did not happen.

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Anon at 8.39pm
Were you telling porkies re 👆🤔🤔? Are you a denier par excellence 😜🤷‍♂️
Have heard stories from older now elderly people who committed huge sins, they had to stand outside their local church on some Sundays after priest outed them out in their preaching sermons.
Did jesus ever outed people in his preaching 🤔.
Nah, nada, zero, zilch, nothing.
What have you😉🤔

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In relation to Rathgar parish has anyone any knowledge if the Organist and master of the music is moving to Beechwood Avenue parish together ( so to speak) with Fr Taylor

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What happened to all good, honest, trustworthy, and decent priests that we used to have back then now gone and replaced with bullies, vulgar ones, autocrats, dictators et al🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️?
Remember that priest in Rosscarberry is not answerable to nobody, not even his parishioners except for his bishop to whom he owes his loyalty and allegiance, period.
He mentions his superiors as he had discussed with them. Dies that mean his bushop🤔🤔🤔

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It is I believe very wring of any cleric to unilaterally make a decision re: employee. There is a way of making decisions that are humane, considerate and respectful of people. This priest should have exercised greate wisdom, fairness and kindness. I doubt 8f his Bishop us happy wuth such unnecessary negative publicity. Saying that, in some parishes of ling standing There are sacristans and secretaries who create little kingdoms for themselves and overstep their boundaries all too frequently. They Lord it iver priests and parishioners. Thus the absolute need to draw up contracts with conditions of employment. All parishes are obliged to do this with employees. No cleric shoukd feel he has the first and last word in every decision. Kindness is a great virtue to possess. I have, sadly, observed that when priests feel challenged or a little overwhelmed in some situations, they can be dictatorial. While We have important roles in parishes, we are called to be kind and caring, not to lord it over anyone. Today’s feast of Christ the King is a salutary reminder of our true ministry in Christ.

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Get into the real world. Don’t tar sacristans and secretaries with your own judgemental brush. Sweeping statements by you make the matter worse not better by excusing the clergy bullies. A contract/agreement etc does not excuse bad bullying behaviour.

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9.15: You didn’t read my comments correctly. I’ve never bullied anyone in my life. I respect everyone I work with. I have defended secretaries and sacristans in two parishes where I witnessed bullying against them. I have also witnessed bullying sacristans and secretaries and was engaged in a court dispute because of parishioners being bullied by a secretary. I merely stated truths which I have experienced. Working contracts actually protect employees, thus their necessity. No priest has a right to be a bully. I have always stood by people who work in parishes and where there were difficulties we sat together and discussed issues in an honest and respectful way. I hope thus clarifies the matter for you.

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