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“JOSEPHITE” MARRIAGES !

Wikipaedia

Josephite marriage, also known as spiritual marriage, chaste marriage, and continent marriage, is a religiously motivated practice in which a man and a woman marry and live together without engaging in sexual activity.

Luigi and Maria Beltrame Quattrocchi lived in a Josephite marriage after they had a family of four children.

Catholicism

A feature of Catholic spiritual marriage, or Josephite marriage, is that the agreement to abstain from sex should be a free mutual decision, rather than resulting from impotence or the views of one party.

In senses beyond spiritual marriage, abstinence is a key concept of Church doctrine that demands celibacy of priests, monks, nuns and certain other officials in the Church. The doctrine established a “spiritual marriage” of church officials to their church; in order to better serve God, one had to disavow the demands and temptations of traditional marriage. This rule was enforced by Henry II, Holy Roman Emperor, whose marriage to Cunigunde of Luxemburg was also a very famous spiritual marriage.

HENRY 11 AND CUNIGUNDE

Saints Louis and Zélie Martin professed to enter a spiritual marriage, but consummated a year later when directed by their confessor to do so. Of their nine children the five who survived to adulthood all became nuns, including Saint Thérèse de Lisieux.

Occasionally, spiritual marriages may also be entered later in life, with the renunciation of sexual relations after raising a family to fully dedicate oneself to God. In October 2001, John Paul II beatified a married couple, Luigi Beltrame Quattrocchi and Maria Corsini, who bore four children, but later in life lived separately and committed to a Josephite marriage.

PAT SAYS

THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH AND ITS OBSESSION WITH SEX.

These Josephite marriages were invented by the RCC for couples not validly married married in the eyes of the RCC to allow them to live together but not have sex!

In Ireland these relatioships were called “brother and sister” relatiohips. They could live together but not have sex.

They were based on the belief that St Joseph and Mary lived together but never had sex.

But how does anyone know that Joseph and Mary NEVER had sex?

I have no desire to formally deny the “Virgin Birth”.

But the New Testament does speak of “the brothers and sisters of Jesus”

The RCC wants us to believe that they were his cousins and that the translations mean cousins as well as brothers and sisters.

The RCC demands that for a marriage to be valid it must be sexually consummated.

You can even get an annulment for non-consummation and remarry in the RCC.

But they also claim that the marriage of Joseph and Mary was not consummated out of respect to God, the father of Jesus.

This seems to be to be having your cake and eating it.

It’s because the RCC thinks sex is DIRTY and certainly TOO DIRTY for God, Joseph and Mary.

In fact in Confession in Ireland in the old days, refusing your husband his conjugal rights (sex) was a sin women had to confess.

I had ladies in Belfast confess to me: “Far, I refused my old fella his jungle rights”

AND ANOTHER THING:

The RCC maintains that procreation is a wonderful gift from God to bring new babies into the church and the world.

Why did God go to all that trouble to create the miraculous human reproductive system but then send his son into the world by bypassing what he had created and what he called GOOD?

Do we mean the ordinary way is good enough for the rest of us but not good enough for God, Joe and Mary.

And to bolster this up they teach the Immaculate Conception of Mary, bypassing her parents Joachim and Anne?

We Catholics are called to believe in:

The Immaculate Conception of Mary

And

That Mary was FOREVER a virgin.

Does this means that poor old Joe never got his jungle rights?

Of course we are in all this trouble because of ORIGINAL SIN and the ancient belief that the original sin was SEX.

What was it Oscar Wilde that said:

“These is no such a thing as an original sin. They’ve all been done before”.

60 replies on ““JOSEPHITE” MARRIAGES !”

* The Catholic Church is not obsessed with sex. It is obsessed with chastity to the point of denial of the natural sex drives.
* If we are created in God’s image, why are we so obsessed with adopting into the person something from outside the person, via the apprenticeship in self-mastery (ccc2,339).
* Psychology and self-denial will teach us a lot about the resulting dysfunction.

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Of course there is nothing wrong with a couple getting married and agreeing not to have sex – they would still partake of all the other aspects of marriage. A fictional example without religious overtones would be Lucia and Georgie in EF Benson’s books.
But consummating your marriage on your confessor’s instructions is bizarre and quite different to realising that you both fancy each other too much not to.

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If me and a good lady (perhaps soon) don’t fancy “you know what” we’re not going to ask permission from any church. In fact I think the RCC ought not to be recognising any marriages as “valid” anyway, except the same as the chess club or an employer or insurance firm does. Parsons were a handy person in each locality for keeping a register, that is all. In addition to a register office we might see if some independent chapel where we were known will read an ordinary service over us.

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Christians need to get their noses out of people’s loins and stop their prurient obsession with what people get up to in their relationships. Simple. It is the business of a couple themselves to decide what they do and how they do and where they put their bits. I have long thought it distinctly strange when clerics exhibit an inordinate interest in the matter os sex, and particularly when they lead the conversation to such in confession, not that I go to that anymore. Even as a youngster, I always though it very strange that I would be interrogated about masturbation, and even at that tender age had a sense that this had more to do with the needs of the priest to know and fantasise over than it did with anything to do with me. I suspect that most people these days do not have the priest at the top of their call list when it comes to seeking help and advice about their personal, private and relationship lives. Those days have gone. Not soon enough. Too much damage was done by them.

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Expert on humanity my arse.
Profound inability to discuss challenging or difficult sexual issues.
Here’s an example – why has the RCC church condemned sexual pleasure when the good Creator created the clitoris whose 8000 nerve endings sole purpose is to give pleasure? Discuss. Except it can’t discuss it’s v good though at closing discussion down.
The RCC church isn’t remotely interested in sex its true obsession is control and power.
Josephite marriages my arse – most long term married couples don’t have sex anymore but don’t make a big deal about it – like Gods happy we’re not having sex. What is that all about.

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Anon@8:32: While I agree with the gist of your comment (about the RCC ‘s bizarre preoccupation with sex), I don’t think any “good Creator created the clitoris.” Isn’t it a rather bizarre way for any “creator” , if such an entity existed, to create and perpetuate humanity: by “using the bits” of our anatomy also used to dispose of our digestive system’s unwanted spoils? Isn’t it all rather “messy”?
Or maybe this almighty creator’s plan went awray, or he’s still working on it?
So this sex thing might just be an intermediate phase in the Almighty’s great development plan, …….
and it’s really an EVOLUTIONARY thing?
MMM

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I’m really torn here because I like the idea that if God created us he put the male G-spot in a place where it’s most easily reached up the bum.
Nice move.

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Michael from the Mournes is back, repeating a variation on his good without God mantra- it is all due to evolution- for the creators creation is, according to Mick, bizarre! Mick seems to know better. Or, maybe he learned something new on Youtube. Michael, broaden your social media purview. Watch BrandNewTube.com for a change! You might learn something new rather than sounding like a stuck 78 record.

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12:47 pm
‘Father’, as in priest, or daddy? Have you a father complex? Why assume I am a priest?
I’m not a priest. I suppose, psychologically, a father complex is less serious than a God complex or Jehovah complex or NPD. Michael from the Mournes has been posting the
same three notions on Bishop Buckleys blog for several years; good without God,
evolution and promoting the usual new atheist suspects on Youtube, when not passive aggressively criticizing those who challenge his former profession. All I am suggesting to Mick is to listen to alternative voices than the usual suspects. Alternative voices can also
be found on Brighteon.com or Rumble.com. Mick seems stuck in more ways than one.
He seems to think all catholics are stuck ,infected from infancy with cathbot like religiosity. Wrong. Such thinking is psychologically called projection. St. Paul tells us to put the ways
of childhood behind us.(1 Cor 13:11). Many never grow up spiritually, remaining stuck or spiritually arrested. People can perish for lack of knowledge in more ways than they realise.

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5:05 pm

So, would you like to outline the hallmarks of a priest, according to you?
I dare you to also outline the hallmarks of a committed Catholic Christian?
Share the knowledge !!! Go on…go on…go on….(LOL).

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HMV. You appear to have an incorrect understanding of psychological projection if you really think Michael protects his religious ego by repeatedly pointing out just how fatuous are many religious beliefs, especially those of the RCC. He doesn’t appear to have any ‘religious ego’
: more than can be said for some on this blog

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7:26pm

‘Religious ego’…What are you talking about?
With respect, you don’t seem to understand psychological projection. Go, ponder! (LOL).

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HMV@9:32: I Anon @ 7:26, think I have a good understanding of the Freudian concept of projection. However I invite you to explain YOUR understanding within the context of your final paragraphs @ 3:41, that I might respond appropriately.

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Nice that he’s been resurrected / rehabilitated / reemerged etc. But what about all the others that disappear / exclaustrated / made to depart – Paul Chevasse, Nichols, the Birmingham Oratory Three etc. ? It’s nice to see Daniel pop up like some children’s tv presenter and do all sorts of naff stuff. Bully for him !

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I was thinking yesterday how in any other walk of life an employee vanished and their colleagues were told it was for health or personal reasons, you would assume something awful and get them a card. The reason you don’t assume that with a priest is the church’s own fault, using the phrase to cover up crime, so they’ve brought it on themselves.

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Nah, it’s just usually petty, nasty, vindictive stuff dressed up as all moralistic and self-righteous. Those Cong Orat places are full of men with very deep emotional and psychological flaws. Put them all together and its a vicious atmosphere. Probably was the same in Newman’s day. They live as individual sharing for convenience communal domestic resources, but I doubt if there is much unity of heart and mind and spirit, except the usual formulaic nonsense they will spout from the pulpit. Then, if you don’t fit in, or lose whatever the current battle or issue is, you are cast out in to the darkness, never to be mentioned again. Somehow, Daniel seems to have got back in, albeit at another Oratory. What a Shambles (Get it ?! York ! )

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3.41: An excellent riposte to MMM who seems to think we are all stuck in infancy. I believe he is stuck somewhere – up his backside or in a wine glass!! He has repeated ad infinitum his rehearsed atheistic arguments for years. It’s the same illogic all atheists use.. all copied from Hitchens and company.

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Anon@6:11: by referring to “atheistic arguments” you appear to misunderstand the atheist position. I do not put forward any “proof” in an argument that there is no God. One cannot “prove ” a negative, or absence.
I say that I see no convincing proof, and that reliable verifiable scientific evidence seems heavily weighted against belief in God, and certainly against the multitude of unverifiable and dubious claims of religious believers.
In trying to stick to logical discussion I have no need for recourse to wine glasses nor anybody’s backside.
MMM

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That is thought provoking today that’s why I think when we go to confession inn St Patrick’s that the priest encourages us to explain our sins in detail, people think he is being nosey but he is merely exploring the sin to see if it is one and also to administer the correct penance

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@9. Surely you aren’t so completely naivety?
If indeed you are I’d think it a good example of RCC brainwashing in producing an unquestioning cathbot.

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Yes I will support that. It’s been well known for years that if you confess sexual desires or conquests that you are quizzed about it. I often thought that the priest was getting off on hearing these confessions

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I’ve been in a Josephite marriage but it’s been more to do with age and lack of desire or interest.

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If we are made in the image and likeness of God (Genesis 1: 27), does that mean God has genitals? If so, what is the purpose of those genitals? Were they just there for his own solitary entertainment throughout eternity or did God plan to breed and spawn brood? Furthermore, are they male genitals or female genitals or does he/ she/ it have both? I must admit that I sound like a pound shop Voltaire but I think it’s a fairly valid point. The only way one can counter that is to say that one should take the Bible with a pinch of salt. To say that it was his plan all along takes away in my opinion from the completeness of God by subordinating his very appearance to one of his creations.

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Let those of us who are still Catholics say The Rosary in reparation for the heretical and appalling statements made in this non-Catholic blog. Concerning The Immaculate Ever Virgin Mother of God and the Great Patriarch St Joseph. Immaculate Heart of Mary pray for us, St. Joseph Foster Father of Our Divine Lord pray for us.

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LOL it’s so funny that you would pray about the heresy on this blog. God never bothered intervening during slavery and hasn’t even bothered to stop his own priests abusing children, so good luck with that. Unless you’re implying that he’s so temperamental he suddenly acts when people utter heresy? That would be one sad God.

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Anon@ 9:23: Now you’re talking, ….or rather questioning: the sign of intelligence.
For IF this alleged God gave us a brain, as well as all those other ‘odd bits’ of human anatomy then surely He, She or Whatever it is “up there ” would expect us to use it.
After all He has informed us of His ‘Great Plan’ for us via “The Bible”: ….that marvellously clear set of instructions so absolutely lucid that there is no disagreement among scholars as to its origins, writers, interpretation etc etc.
MMM

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Moaning Minnie @ 10:26am
Exactly what we expect from an oul atheist, we Catholics don’t care what you and your likes think. Away with you to perdition where you belong.

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10.56: Must be a dreary, miserable morning in the Mournes. Poor auld MMM turns yet again to this blog for company and repwets his trivializing, silly commentary. Smarmy and smug is his atheistic demeanour.

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You’re verrrry reliable: yes you @ 12:45, in that you keep responding to my comments using the same term/name in your invariably hostile ad hominem response. It’s a passive aggressive ploy often used by those with neither the guts nor gumption to articulate any sensible counter response.
MMM

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2.02: MMM: You ought to take a break from the blog. Your utterances are ridiculous. For an atheist you sure have a rather stange and contradictory attitude to religious belief. Did you have dreams of heaven? Repent….

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@ 3:15: kindly explain what you mean by my “stange (sic) and contradictory attitude to religious belief” you refer to.
I accept that questioning and doubting the claims of religious belief may seem STRANGE to believers reared from infancy, as cathbots, not to question, and just to rely on blind faith.

But I don’t think there’s much contradiction inasmuch, as an atheist, I have consistently asked religious believers to show some reliable convincing proof, indeed ANY, for the mish mash of “truths” they profess.
Indeed they too are consistent, …..in offering none: just the usual
A)ad hominem indignation, B) “it’s a mystery. C) the bible says…..
MMM

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You have fallen into the traditional Protestant error of confusing the Immaculate Conception and Virgin Birth. Mary was conceived and born in exactly the same way as every other person except Jesus. “Immaculate Conception” refers to her preservation from the stain of Original Sin.
If you are going to criticise the Church, please do so for her actual teachings and not your erroneous understanding of them.

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God does have genitals because God became man – theologians incapable of discussing curious question like: did Jesus have an involuntary erection? I guess Augustine would say only fallen man has involuntary erections – did Jesus derive pleasure from his penis presumably not as pleasur is sinful – or is it?
What did Jesus’ resurrected body look like and how did this miraculous event change or transform his genitals?
Was Jesus naked on the cross?
What did the Roman soldiers think of his manhood?
Does an assumed body like Mary’s have an assumed clitoris?
I know I know impudent and facetious but surely not outside the realm of discussion.
I once asked a priest if Jesus would have had nocturnal emissions he said: I’m not talking about this with you.’
Confirming my opinion that the teaching of the church isn’t robust enough or it may be but it’s clergy aren’t to discuss anything about Jesus’ or Mary’s sexuality – truly taboo but why?

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WTTaboo: I’m assuming your questioning to be rhetorical?
It’s obvious that the whole Christian farrago is such a gobbledygook of make belief that its theologians and philosophers continue to eternally debate its numerous illogicalities and inherent contradictions, …..meanwhile keeping themselves in comfortable employment.
Well, ….perhaps not so obvious to those infected from infancy with cathbotlike religiosity, …or blind, perhaps fearful …..faith?
MMM

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Why the taboo: the mere fact they won’t discuss this suggests that Jesus isn’t really human for them! I think it’s more the clergy than the teaching lol.
The orthodox answers of course would be:
Jesus being completely human would have had involuntary erections and wet dreams (both being involuntary and so not sins). However being without sin he would not have masturbated.
Both bodies would remain complete after being ascended or assumed, including Our Lady’s clitoris.
I don’t think pleasure as such is a sin in Catholic theology, although you wouldn’t know that by the way it has often been taught! Have you come across a thing called Jansenism? It has particularly influenced Irish Catholicism in the past.
Apart from Catholic orthodoxy and Catholic prudishness preventing discussion in case anything becomes an occasion of sin…
Naked crucifixion is well documented and humans’ propensity to notice pecularities in others’ genitals also well documented. I would suspect Romans may notice his circumcision?

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Pat, you must be very proud of yourself today with the perversion of thoughts and slutty references to God and the Blessed Virgin Mary by yourself and your adherents. Shame. Proof that your spirituality and theology are corrupted by Satan. Utterly.

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3:12 So saying Jesus is fully human and didn’t sin is satanic?
May I suggest reading a catechism!

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5.20: May I suggest you read comments a little more thoroughly. And, the Catechism too!!

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I don’t think that the immaculate conception means that Mary bypassed her parents. The normal biological process was involved but from the first moment of her existence that she shared in the redemption of Christ before his coming. (“In a prevenient way”). John
Dun Scotus explains why: “Potuit, Decuit, ergo fecit” ( it was possible, it was fitting therefore it was done). The place of our Lady is important in understanding who Christ is and also in our spirituality as Catholics.
As for the overstated sexual morality, that arises from a development of thought disconnected from reality and lacking balance.

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Anybody know how + Vinnie did today at the funeral of the murdered MP Amess ? He had all the good and mighty before him. What message did he deliver in his moderated Scouse ? He would have loved it….

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4.41: What a most ridiculous question…If you read it a few times you cannot but feel utterly stupid. “Does anyone know how Archbishop Vincent did…”….Really, what a most ridiculous concern. He did brilliantly, you moron.

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Augustines edifice is rooted in involuntary erections – that the penis is not controlled by the will was problematic for him – an involuntary erection (according to Augustine) may not be sinful but it is fallen de facto Jesus could only have had a voluntary erection if he had one at all – although to be fully human and fully alive having an erection is vital – if you don’t then your impotent.
It is unthinkable and unreasonable that Mary did not derive pleasure from her clitoris – that’s why God created this organ.
I disagree Bishop Pat isn’t being prurient he is the only priest I know who doesn’t shut down open and free discussion- questions about Jesus’ and Mary’s sexuality is long overdue and nothing to be ashamed of.
Teresa of Avilas visions and ecstasy almost certainly related to orgasm – I don’t know maybe she had a large clitoral hood which became sensitive when her bladder was full.
See discussions about sex and theology are messy and challenging and most clergy run a mile because they aren’t experts in humanity there very silly boys!!

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5:42 That is absolutely bizarre and no more fallen than the involuntary beating of the heart. Obviously it’s because it’s related to sex!
It reinforces what I have thought for a long time that mainstream Christianity tends towards his divinity and can tend to ignore his humanity at best.
Mind you, it also claims not to be dualistic, but that just proves they don’t listen during the Easter vigil!

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https://www.complicitclergy.com/news/
Bishops Spinning the Truth in Baltimore
November 23, 2021 from Crisis Magazine by Tom Basile

https://www.crisismagazine.com/2021/spinning-the-truth-in-baltimore?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=spinning-the-truth-in-baltimore

‘ Imagine for just a moment if Christ called a meeting of His disciples to strategize how to moderate His tone so as not to offend the Pharisees. You likely can barely bring yourself to do it. As a Catholic, you know Christ wasn’t interested in being popular or not offending the establishment.’ ‘Clearly, Francis has assiduously avoided discussion of the inherent contradiction between Catholic teaching and his own failure to admonish leaders who favor or acquiesce to abortion, assisted suicide, gender fluidity, and the erosion of religious liberties. He appears to not see the danger in sending mixed messages.’

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I guess Christ just liked to “wade” in; He didn’t have any qualms in that respect…
and it was His love and concern for others which made people stop and and listen and, take note.
It was His love and compassion that made the biggest impact on His followers — even to this day x

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16 Princes Park Mansions, Liverpool 8, in the Anglican Diocesesan Marxist/Leninist Autocratic Dictatorship of Mr. Bayes & Co.says:

If you’ve ever been a guest at 16 Princes Park Mansions; then you’ll know all-too-well about the realities of the Stephen King’s psychological thriller ‘Misery’
.https://youtu.be/XHQ9CPRfDsw

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“Josephite marriages” sounds like an RCC solution to an RCC problem alright!
“I have no desire to formally deny the “Virgin Birth”.”
+Pat, you have had the immense privilege of leading 28 pilgrimages to Lourdes. Why do you love Lourdes?

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Why shouldn’t he love it Seamus? I certainly enjoyed my own 4/5 days there. Back in my late 1960’s post seminary days of travelling around Europe during Uni holidays, I stopped over in Lourdes while hitch hiking through France into Spain. I went just to check it out being aware of its significance in Irish Catholicism.
While there I felt no religious “pull” nor reinforcement of any inclination towards religious belief: just an awareness of the induced psychological effect of crowd participation in communal activities. Down near the Grotto, across the river in the now notorious meadows, I met up with another traveller student who invited me back to stay in a “convent type house” run by a nun providing lodgings for pilgrims. In return for stopover we did all kinds of household maintenance work. I met some very interesting pilgrims there, including several bishops, generally, from memory, very sensible grounded fellows. The accommodation was fairly basic so unlikely to attract the higher echelons of clerical hierarchy.
So go ahead and enjoy Lourdes Pat. Quite apart from any religious significance, the affirmation of communal goodwill can be positively energising.
MMM

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AUTOCRATIC /ɔːtəˈkratɪk/
adjective /
° Relating to a ruler who has absolute power.
“The new much needed safeguarding overhauls now being imposed upon the Church of England’s current failed safeguarding policies are in direct defiance to his, and his colleague bishops, self delusional 1930s European style ideologies of autocratic authoritarian power.”
° Taking no account of other people’s wishes or opinions and Human Rights; domineering and controlling. Abnoxiously dismissive of anybody elses pains or sufferings; evil.
“The pro-active silencing of victims of childhood clerical abuse — and at all costs; and with a misguided, and delusional, sense of complete impunity.”

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What does ‘natural’ even mean? Wearing clothes isn’t ‘natural?’ The Josephite marriage, assuming it is freely entered into, is something heroic, surely a source of many graces.

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