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US DIOCESE REFUSING SACRAMENTS TO SAME SEX COUPLES AND TRANSGENDER PEOPLE.

John Doerfler

A Catholic diocese in Michigan has been thrust into the national spotlight after a prominent priest and author shared its guidance on transgender members and those in same-sex relationships on social media this week. The viral guidance, which the Diocese of Marquette issued in July, says such congregants are prohibited from being baptized or receiving Communion unless they have “repented.”

It instructs the church’s priests on how to develop pastoral relationships with “persons with same-sex attraction” and “persons with gender dysphoria” and “lead them step‐by‐step closer to Jesus Christ in a manner that is consistent with the Church’s teaching.”

The Roman Catholic Church has long held that being gay isn’t a sin but that being in a gay relationship or having gay sex is. The Vatican also ruled in March that priests can’t bless same-sex unions.

Regarding transgender people, the Vatican in June 2019 released “Male and Female He Created Them: Towards a Path of Dialogue on the Question of Gender Theory in Education,” which rejected the idea that trans people can exist and said the “ideology” aims “to annihilate the concept of ‘nature.’”

The Diocese of Marquette said in its guidance that trans people deserve “love and friendship” and compared them to people “suffering from anorexia nervosa.”

“In this disorder there is an incongruence between how the persons perceive themselves and their bodily reality,” the guidance says. “Just as we would refer a person with anorexia to an expert to help him or her, let us also refer persons with gender dysphoria to a qualified counselor to help them while we show them the depth of our love and friendship.”

The document says people in same-sex relationships and trans people can’t be baptized or confirmed or receive Holy Communion. They also can’t serve as witnesses at Catholic baptisms or confirmations.

But, the guidance says, gay and transgender people can participate in such sacraments if they repent. For gay, lesbian, bisexual and queer people, that would mean ending same-sex relationships, and for trans people, it would mean living as the sexes they were assigned at birth, although the guidance says trans people who have undergone “physical changes to the body” aren’t required to reverse them.

Also, in accordance with Catholic doctrine, the guidance says children of same-sex married couples can be baptized if they are raised in the Catholic faith and taught that same-sex marriage goes against the church’s teachings.

“Unlike a man and woman who are cohabitating or in an invalid marriage, the status of same‐sex couples can never be regularized, which presents a particular pastoral concern,” it says. “To avoid scandal, the baptism should be celebrated privately, and care should be taken to avoid the impression of accepting the redefinition of marriage and parenthood.”

The document surfaced after the Rev. James Martin, a Jesuit priest, LGBTQ advocate and best-selling author, criticized it on Twitter, writing Tuesday, “It is not a sin to be transgender.”

Martin added: “Transgender people are beloved children of God struggling to understand their identity. They need to be accepted with ‘respect, compassion and sensitivity.’ As Cardinal Gregory told a trans person, ‘You belong to the heart of this church.'”

Wilton Gregory, the archbishop of Washington, D.C., is the former president of the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops.

He tweeted later that assertions that being transgender is a sin and that trans people don’t exist “do immense harm to LGBTQ people and their families.”

He continued, “The Catholic Church needs to listen to LGBTQ people, not give them more reasons to distance themselves from the church.”

In a statement emailed Thursday, the Diocese of Marquette said the guidance was shared with pastors and school principals, among others, to provide “a framework” for them to develop pastoral relationships with LGBTQ congregants.

“The Church teaches that persons experiencing feelings of same-sex attraction or gender dysphoria is not sinful, but freely acting upon them is,” read the statement, shared by John Fee, the diocese’s communications director.

The statement also noted that the diocese’s bishop, John Doerfler, “served as a Courage chaplain” in his previous ministry and “found working with the Catholic apostolate to persons with same-sex attraction for several years as a priest to be a ‘privilege’ and he remains inspired by the members’ ‘faith and desire to live chastely.’”

The guidance from the Diocese of Marquette, as well as similar guidance from other dioceses, is also in conflict with many of Pope Francis’ teachings and the overtures he has made to the LGBTQ community, she said. In 2013, for example, Francis responded “Who am I to judge?” to a question from a reporter about gay priests. Last year, he told a group of parents that God loves their LGBTQ children.

But Francis’ statements conflict with church doctrine about LGBTQ people.

“If the church continues to have discriminatory attitudes, policies and teachings, the trend of people opting out of Catholicism is only going to continue,” she said.

PAT SAYS

I am shocked and disgusted that the RCC in any diocese is refusing gay and transgender people baptism.

We believe that we become members of God’s family 👪 at baptism.

So this diocese is saying that gay and transgender people cannot be God’s children and their children who may not be gay or transgender at all cannot be God’s children either.

And the ludicrous comparison of being gay to having anorexia reminds me of the time Kevin Doran of Elphin compared homosexuality to Downs Syndrome!

I’m beginning to think that Roman Catholicism is a mental illness and the more RC you are, the more serious the mental illness is and the more illogical and irrational your beliefs and utteran especially become.

I think my “gaydar” is quite good and the Marquette bishop John Doerfler, looks very gay to me?

Is there an element of “the man protesteth too much”?

142 replies on “US DIOCESE REFUSING SACRAMENTS TO SAME SEX COUPLES AND TRANSGENDER PEOPLE.”

LOL to be fair the church might as well be open that it’s about hatred, power and abuse, not love.
James Martin is right in the sense that people already have more than enough reasons to steer clear of it.

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This document of guidelines is merely that: guidelines for clarifying the Church’s moral teachings. I hope and pray that priests in this Diocese will listen to Pope Francis, to Fr. Martin and Archbishop Gregory. We must respect the sexuality of all who wish to be part of our parish communities. Sexuality and gender challenges are very complex issues which deserve careful, kind and compassionate responses. While the ethics and morality of some gender ideologies must be scrutinised and the dignity of sexuality be preserved, to single out any group of people is the antithesis of moral and Christian compassion. Incidentally Pat, don’t go OTT about all Roman Catholics. Many, many of us are very caring, welcoming and understanding to the multitude of those who seek our support. I believe the Bishop of Marquette is very wrong to be so rigid and so dogmatic.

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10.00: I’m sure Jesus approves of a human kindness and compassion of heart. I can still uphold and respect the Church’s moral teachings but my pastoral antennae urge me to treat everyone with decency, justice, respect and care, irrespective of their personal choices. I do not approve of a particular sub culture of gay activity but the peopled with sexual challenges who have sought my support have been truly cared for. It is my duty to preach God’s love and mercy not to condemn, judge or close doors on anyone’s face. Nothing bizarre about my pastoral ministry unless of course you think Jesus was/is bizarre!!

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Priests won’t preach what the Church teaches in the catechism because they don’t believe it or don’t want any unpopularity.

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11:32
Interesting case of church speak.
‘ I can still uphold and respect the Church’s moral teachings but my pastoral antennae urge me to treat everyone with decency, justice, respect and care, ‘
Translation
I can support and benefit from a criminal, corrupt, hateful mafia and kid myself I’m different.

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The 10 Commandments have been replaced by:

“Sexuality and gender challenges are very complex issues which deserve careful, kind and compassionate responses.”

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12.49: Your understanding of people’s life experiences and moral struggles are patently very, very limited. You sick plonker. Hope you have no caring role with people – children, the vulnerable or the many who struggle in life. Go back to your closet.

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This simply shows that JP II era attachment to the organisational sacrament concept is fantasy. Bp Pat is freer to choose his own theology when dealing with his establishment’s affairs and catering for the belief of its public. The ref. to PF however was to finessing of predatory and embezzling behaviours.

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Wikipedia: “In 2011, Doerfler stated in a lawsuit deposition that he destroyed records relating to possible sexual abuse crimes by priests in the diocese.”
What a surprise!!!

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Either that Marquette bishop, John Doerfler, will quickly have to change his position or else he’ll get shifted.
Whatever the theology, US Catholic charities are too dependent on Federal funding for the Church to risk upsetting liberal politicians.

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“I think my “gaydar” is quite good and the Marquette bishop John Doerfler, looks very gay to me?”
This comment is just stupid on so many levels and unworthy of you. There was also need for the question mark at the end of your statement.

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Why? It’s germane to the discussion. The bishop is clearly gay yet he is issuing anti-gay guidance, which is hypocritical.

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He looks like a weirdo. In 2011, Doerfler stated in a lawsuit deposition that he destroyed records relating to possible sexual abuse crimes by priests in the diocese.

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Certainly gay in the old fashioned meaning as happy in a carefree way. Whether he’s very happy with young men or men his age, is unknown. I think anyone can only judge by actions and words.

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I slept with a priest last week after a night out, at the time I didn’t know he was though, he felt guilty and compiled to tell me after he had ejaculated and felt so bad, I guess that was his RC upbringing or his cheating of his vows?

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I think you’ll find that the Pope appoints bishops. He doesn’t have to accept anyone on a terna submitted by a nuncio. Frank often doesn’t. To repeat, seeing as you are hard of learning, or a Frank-worshipper who won’t hear anything against him: he is a Francis appointment.

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11.55
The Pope signs off on appointments. His election doesn’t add anything to his human abilities, which, in Francis’ case are considerable. However, if he could do it alone, there would have been no need for a congregation for bishops or a network of some 200 nuncios. The reality is different. But it appears nuance is not in your vocabulary.
This graduate of Wojtyła’s theology of the body institute is a Viganò classic.

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I was refused communion in St Teresa’s church for going to mass draped in a rainbow flag and outrageous camp clothing in order to prove a point that the RCC is homophobic deep in its roots

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You were making a point though so you deserved to be refused, Priscilla. And anyway, rainbow colours don’t suit your pasty complexion, dearie. Sure you are nearly transparent at this stage. Just saying xxx

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Pat I’m a lesbian and I would never take anything from a mans hands straight to my mouth which is why we need to have women ordained as priests. Why is it that if a priest is in favour of this they are overlooked for a job as a bishop? Shockingly discriminatory

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Your logic between your sexuality and taking something from the hands of a man is….flawed shall we say. And using that as your sole reason for women “priests” is laughable.

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Omicron is coming and we will all fall victim to Covid 2 years after it was discovered I just hope all readers are triple boosted and likewise you Bishop so we can fight this bat bugger rightly

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I hate how we still have to fight for equality Bishop. Only the other day I heard a Romanian on a bus shouting to the woman beside him to look at his phone and look at the ‘gay’ one in the video he was showing her. He has no issues vocalising this, yet if I was to scream look at the ‘Romanian’ I would be hauled through the courts for being a Nazi

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Rome is riddled with the lavender mafia, so it’s no surprise that the mood there is out of touch with the eternal verities. I wouldn’t look to Rome for guidance, what with it’s coke-sniffing, Swiss Guard-bothering cardinals and rent boy sems.

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I’m a trans woman and I’m beautiful in my own way Cus god made me this way, no matter white black or beige, chocolate or Lebanese made, we were born this way. No matter gay, trans or bi, lesbian or straight made, we were all born this way

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No dear. You were born as permanently male or permanently female. The world has turned you in to the disordered being you call yourself.

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You’re 100% right dear. These people need to be challenged. It wasn’t like that in my day, oh no it wasn’t. A festive Yuletide to you all, both near and far.

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@ 9:06: If your God made you, and presumably everybody else, how come He’s made such a bollocks of it with all the poor unfortunate handicapped individuals?
Yes Mam, your God sure ‘moves in mysterious ways!’

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I don’t think it’s an illness in the sense an individual has it, it’s more like a collective hallucination like the Indian rope trick and you start seeing things that aren’t happening. Then bang, suddenly it’s okay to cover up abuse, rape nuns, kill orphans and put charitable funds in dodgy investments. The seed of some of this is in the dodgy mental reservation theory, for example. I can’t think of a single other supposedly Christian church that teaches it is acceptable to lie.

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It seems this guy is going out on a limb Pat.
Either to attract attention from the higher ups who are trying to drag things back to the Stone age and thus ensure his own promotion if they succeed. Unfortunately the mixed messages from Papa Francisco facilitate these guys. If he routed them once and for all many of the current crises would dissipate. He lacks the ability and decisivness.
Or else,he’s such a self hater he needs to protest too much.
As you say I believe he’s homosexual and certainly looks as gay as a goose.
Best thing for gays and transsexuals is to completely ignore him and go elsewhere.

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I’m Scared to come out of the closet because of stories like this why can’t we all just live and let love

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Good morning and greetings from the City; I’m waking around a grave yard trying to pick my mood up and the many dead people should teach us to all be kind as life is too fickle and short ya all

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Well said. And we all need to have regard to 1John 1.8 – If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

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I know priests across the board read this blog with great fear and trepidation. I would like to send out a stark warning to the one who screamed at me in the church for dropping a candle, do so again at your peril

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Last thing this priest would do is refuse me the sacrament, who the hell does he think he is. Some one needs to show him who is boss, GOD

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Oh so you’d murder him? I think there was a little commandment against that….
You, like everyone else on this God forsaken blog, pick and choose what you want to follow from the Magisterium of the Church. It’s all or nothing. If you don’t like it, move out

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I don’t know where either of you get the bizarre idea that the church is anything to do with God. 🙄

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11.42: A hell of a lot of self righteous pricks….You are seeing treble I think. There are not a hell of a lot….don’t exaggerate. Most commenters are sane and intelligent. Yes, there may be one/two/three comnents from same person who seems very thick. The vast majority of comments are balanced.

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12.00pm
Typical leftie/illiberal response. People who make comments you agree with are “balanced, sane, reponsible” and those you disagree with are not. Instead of saying in what way ideas are wrong, lefties attack the person making the statement and make them out to be bad or mad.

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Sadly, there are bishops and dioceses and parts of the Church where a rather autistic, simplistic, black and white interpretation and application of theology and pastoral practise still exist, which ignores the overriding Gospel imperative of love. This stuff from Doerfler and others like Cordileone of SF is hurtful, wounding, vindictive and simply wrong. I know that they are morally convinced that they are right, but I am sure the vast majority of Catholics the world over understand that such presentation and application of a particular teaching is not the whole story of the Christian life and ministry. These rather autistic bishops seem not to understand that. I worry also that taking refuge in such moral certainty with the consequent harm that is done to countless people who struggle to navigate their way through life as best they can, stems from these bishops’ own struggles with their own situation and sexuality. When you are afraid, when you are uncertain, when you struggle with something as basic as your own sexuality, particularly in a clerical culture that is directed to sublimating that sexuality, the easiest thing is to take refuge in absolute certainty and to become that which you are really not. So, they will have their own problems. Which they need to resolve. The sadness is that they are inflicting their own problems, anger, bitterness, and unhappiness on countless others by these kind of rigourist, black and white, and as I say, autistic, statements. I’m sure most of the priests and people of Doerfler’s diocese are very uneasy at these kinds of statements from their bishops. If I were one of his priests, I simply would not publish or speak about this statement to my people, on the grounds that it would do more harm than good. Bishops are not the last word !

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Sadly there are people who think it acceptable to use the name of a neurodevelopmental condition, autism, as an insult.

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I’m Trans and we have more important things to worry about than the sacrament from a hyped up ball bag like John

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Kelly Malone the trans woman said her faith and the Catholic Church actually saved her from the depths of depression when she had her penectomy so it goes to show you there are good Dioceses out there

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I never heard of that Bishop name as its a strange sounding name – doer/fler.
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A brief look at wiki re him was interesting especially his association with business people.

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See here from wiki: Prior to his appointment as bishop of Marquette, he served as the chaplain to Legatus, a Catholic organization of lay business people, and a member of the Diocesan College of Consultors.

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This one was more disturbing :

In 2011, Doerfler stated in a lawsuit deposition that he destroyed records relating to possible sexual abuse crimes by priests in the diocese. He said that the records were destroyed in accordance to federal privacy laws and as part of an initiative by Ricken. (did he get rewarded for his bishopric job re this 🤔😉, just saying) 🤷‍♂️
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Hes Pope francis appointment with the help of curia Congregation of bishops.(from wiki)

There are some examples of something is wrong with RCC, this is a classic example of this , who sees black and white when it comes to gender sex and its issues, silverstream, Mt Melleray, monk in Jerusalem, collins?, Anglicans priests joining rcc in uk, Burrell, Bishop BLING, Kevin doran remarks on down syndrome was appalling et al.

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He looks gay to me although I could be wrong. How often I got it wrong as gay or lesbian people more sharper in detecting men or women who throw off shades of it.

Re mental illness, yes I’m starting to think in that way cos I have noticed in the past re some women as I do not wish to tar them all with same brush. But there was one or two women who went to extremes (more rcc etc) probably has it re mental illness. Although I have no proof of this, just my observation.

Too much of rcc might be a bad thing for lay people cos it might not be healthy.

Had mental illness especially ptsd, I found rcc far too much as it wasn’t good for my mental health. Again that was my observation.
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What I did was to stop reading rcc news, any on PF, divert gaze on news of new Bishop on the press, withdrew from Catholic blogs such as church militant etc. It did help me to that extent just focus and trust on god that’s what I’m trying to do for now. I felt it wasn’t conductive to mental health as that was my feeling. The less is better analogy I saw somewhere hence I restricted myself to less Catholic news cos of mental health.

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For the benefit of the moron who knows sweet FA about the Maynooth seminary choir, I’ve submitted a rebuttal in the comments on yesterday’s blog.

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Here is the response to 8:12pm yesterday:
8.12
This is poignant. You know the square root of FA. Are you a lay student 🤣?
The college choir was seminarians only from its foundation until 1988, when it was renamed the college chapel choir but it remained sems only.
About 5 years ago, the college chapel choir admitted lay students and staff. Separately, a seminary choir (consisting only of sems) was established. It was the only choir to sing last year. See link below. There’s no mention this year of the seminary choir (a separate outfit to the college chapel choir). What’s happened to it? I’m sure you don’t know the answer.
https://maynoothcollege.ie/maynooth-college-annual-christmas-service-to-be-livestreamed

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@2.00pm That is a very nasty thing to say, very nasty. I suppose you were feeding your hungry ego by thinking readers would find it amusing. This blog has always expressed a warmth for all denominations. Any reader will verify my point. Your arrogance and nastiness has lead to comments unworthy of any reasonable person. I suggest you apologise and withdraw them. They lie at the heart of years of conflict in your country. All you can do is perpetuate division between communities. That is an awful thing to do. Insensitivity like that you have expressed has no place here.

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Hi I am a black nurse working in your NHS and I just wanted to say I’m sorry for the discrimination you all face and know that you all have an ally In me. BLM and LGBT matter also

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I’m part of the ACDC/Bi community. Nobody ever thinks about us. There needs to be a bit more discussion around us and more recognition too. People always say bisexuals are just greedy. But thsts so insulting. And it hurts x

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Sheer clericalism to think the Eucharist is the property of the priest to dispense or withhold as he sees fit. All that matters is what the Bible and the Church say are the conditions necessary for worthy reception. The views of individual priests are irrelevant.
It is also interesting to note that the Presbyterians are very strict about who receives, as are the Orthodox. As usual when it comes to bad, populist things in the Church, it was the Anglicans who created the notion that it’s a “come all ya”.

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He’s probably relieved, now that he can rawhide to his heart’s content. Pat did him a favour, I’d say.

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2.47: Liar. Liar. Liar. I know for a fact he was not and is not in Dublin. If by chance he is out shopping, just MYOB, you hating creep.

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The RCC is not in favour of condoms yet the world is falling apart due to the amount of people. Jesus and John were lovers. It’s been long documented

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The Omi is ripping through Westminster like nobody’s business – so many MPs tweeting that they’ve tested positive. I hope you’ve been boosted, Pat, and all your readers too.

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Christopher Biggins has outlandishly claimed that bisexuals are the ones who spread hiv in the 80s and not the homosexuals.

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If you are straight nowadays you are the minority, and the weird one. It’s more cool now to be part of the gang that are creating their own unique alphabet, LGBT……..soon they will teach children in primary school the standard alphabet and the gay one

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I was reading an interesting statistic regarding NI addictions for last 5 years. Men from all religious denominations made up 57 of inpatient rehab units. This profession ranked second highest amongst all professions noted.

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Unless a priest refuses to engage with his parishioners or is some desk pilot, a priest has to be social worker and counsellor to so many. Some evildoers will confess enormous wrong, and the priest can do nothing. Less and less people might attend, and regardless of his good efforts, a priest can do nothing. Those things can work on a man’s mind. He can feel a failure, and at c. 54 what else can he do now?

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They are all starved of sex and closeted so their best friend comes out every night for a visit – Chardonnay

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5.39: A stressful job has little to do with alcoholism. You need to educate yourself about the psychology and pathology of alcoholism. Don’t make such a fool of yourself.

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Bishop John Doerfler is a fine looking man……yes, definitely gay, but he looks really hot. Marquette is a rural diocese in the UP of Michigan…….cut off from the rest of the state so I’m sure he gets lonely there. Hope he has some good company and support.

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The Church preaches the ideal of man and woman coming together. There must be understanding and respect of that. The Church at the same time must be understanding and respectful of the LGBT community.
Some bible verses that are used to attack the LGBT community are more to do with the boilerhouse brigade.
Take care, and be on your guard against all covetousness.
Pax.

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Arrogant Bar Stewards. Sacraments are not products. We speak of Real Presence. Is there any “Real Presence” in any church these days

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No presence at all you are right but they want want want and yet they race through mass like it’s commentary on the horses

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I find it amazing that there’s talk again of closing schools and churches, yet places such as the Boiler House can stay open and Grindr is still operating. Not very responsible.

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No marks for speculation that Doerfler is a TLM fan.
Poor Pope Francis has his work cut out for him with these US bishops. Inculcated into his psyche from an early age that JPII’s theology of the body would lead to promotion, Doerfler hasn’t noticed the winds of change blowing in Rome since 2013.

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7.22
Another example of the US hierarchy’s divergence from Pope Francis. Pat remarked a few days ago how loyalty to the successor of Peter was regarded as a test of one’s Catholicism.

Francis replies by letter to a gay Catholic U.S. journalist affirming his work of bringing to light how some Catholics responded heroically to the AIDS epidemic.

https://www.ebar.com/arts_&_culture/books//311335

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German bishops seem more aligned to Francis, but can sound ill tempered if Francis seems slow on their understanding of synodality. They are effectively far wealthier and the money is wisely spent and saved. They could just do what they want and Francis couldn’t do a thing. Reinhard Cardinal Marx seemed to use Traditionis Custodis to make a point that German bishops were not automatically dancing to his tune, that he’d look at it when he felt like it. I see the positions of the USCCB as an instance of similar national feeling, that bold and brave Americans are really more capable than bungling Italians, and the Germans likely think so too.

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11.26
Cart before the horse, mate. His public position shows what he is. Completely consonant with the lace brigade and the body pseudotheology nutters.

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Some daily communicants might be excellent catholics but terrible Christians. The marginalised groups, which the Bishop has taken aim at, include many people who bear immense interior turmoil often borne secretly. I think when we are faced with the reality of the Kingdom we must be prepared for a few surprises about who takes their place there and those others who will realise they have been outside all along.

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