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How the church’s focus on Mary’s virginity became a curse for women – The shaming of women that rose from the Christmas story goes against Jesus’ teachings.

FROM RELIGION NEWS SERVICE

The Rev. Serene Jones is president of Union Theological Seminary. The views expressed in this commentary do not necessarily reflect those of Religion News Service.)

REVEREND SERENE JONES

In a few days, Christians around the world will celebrate the birth of Jesus Christ. They will recount how Mary and Joseph made the long, hard journey to Bethlehem and how she gave birth to Jesus in a manger.

It’s a story with beautiful themes of God’s humble love, tenderness and vulnerability. But this holiday season, there’s a part of this story that it’s time to move past: Mary’s purported virginity.

I’m a theologian and am very familiar with the biblical stories of the birth of Jesus, as well as the many views of Mary’s virginity. For centuries, religious scholars have debated whether Mary was in fact a virgin, or whether this interpretation is based on a mistranslation of the text.

Regardless of the truth, one thing is for certain: The focus on Mary’s virginity created the rationale behind centuries of harmful views about virginity and perfect womanhood — how we should dress, act and approach our sexuality. These views are, in turn, tied to the gross inequalities women face still 2,000 years later — from the wage gap to attacks on reproductive rights.

For centuries, Christians have held that Mary was herself conceived immaculately — that is, perfectly free of sin and therefore fit to be a pure vessel to carry Jesus. Then, when Mary was a teenager — and importantly, still a virgin — the Holy Spirit conceived Jesus, another perfect, sinless child. Many Christian scholars say that Mary remained a virgin for the rest of her life.

Theologians have long questioned these beliefs, even as religious leaders have used Mary’s purported virginity as a model for how women should behave. Sex is sin. Abstaining from sex is saintly.

St. Augustine was one of several church fathers who characterized sex for pleasure as a sin because it diverted one’s attention away from God. His work created a strong connection between purity and virginity, and laid the groundwork for countless social movements to control and shame women’s sexuality.

Today, this view remains very much alive. In many U.S. conservative Christian communities, women are still instructed that it is their duty — and notably, not the duty of men — to eschew sex for pleasure and to have sex only after marriage and only for reproduction.

They are duly told to refrain from dressing in a way that draws male attention. They must reject sexual advances from others and repress their own sexual urges. They wear purity rings and, in a few places, still attend purity balls — at which daughters promise their fathers that they will remain virgins until marriage. Unsurprisingly, many women who are raped or assaulted don’t report it because they don’t want to be considered “tainted.”

Similar mindsets can be found elsewhere, and in other faiths. Honor killings remain a fact of life in some countries, while others criminalize premarital sex and put women who have committed adultery to death. 

In sum, a woman’s worth is greatly dependent on how “pure” she is perceived to be, and a woman’s sexual agency is at best ignored and at worst punished.

This shaming of women goes against God’s most basic teachings. In one of Jesus’ pivotal parables, recounted in the Gospel of John, he teaches the opposite lesson: A woman accused of adultery is brought before Jesus by a mob that wants to stone her to death. Instead of condemning her, however, Jesus famously responds that only those without sin should cast the first stone. Not surprisingly, no stones are thrown.

The truth is, Mary’s virginity is superfluous and turns a story that is supposed to be about the love of God into a tale that oppresses women. Instead of focusing on Mary’s sexuality, let’s celebrate the true glory of the season.

(The Rev. Serene Jones is president of Union Theological Seminary. The views expressed in this commentary do not necessarily reflect those of Religion News Service.)

PAT SAYS

I think we need to give serious consideration to Serene Jones thoughts.

The whole emphasis on the “virginity” of Mary is worrying.

The RCC has created a VIRGIN GOD rather than a servant of her Lord.

Extreme Marianism is a heresy.

240 replies on “How the church’s focus on Mary’s virginity became a curse for women – The shaming of women that rose from the Christmas story goes against Jesus’ teachings.”

1-17am
With all due respect can you tell us why you think Pat needs to wise up?
Has the fact you posted at such an hour may go to some length to explain your silly request of +Pat

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Thank you +Pat for an interesting and timely reflection on the role of half of humankind.
Our primitive ancestors regarded male physical strength and instinctual aggressiveness as paramount and essential attributes to our hunter gathering successful continuation of our species. Males killed the beasts: subservient dependent females burdened with child rearing responsibilities cooked the carcass.
Now, many thousands of generations on, our present species, like most of the world, has evolved. Those former paramount physical human attributes are no longer vitally necessary.
But it is a reality that like most who attain power, political, secular or economical, its retention has become a central concern, whether recognised or not. And so it has continued in relation to a perceived subordinate role for females.
So much of the Christian mindset has been shaped by male dominated biblical narratives and subsequent formation of male dominated hierarchical institutions of which the RCC is a prime example.
Evolution promotes successful survival strategies. So it is probably for humankind’s benefit that the more generally cooperative caring elements of the female sex are now gradually coming to the fore.
But resistance to this is evident on many levels, some very obvious and aggressive, but others
are typified in the submissive subservient acquiescent role routinely and without thought are attributed to women. These are more insidious, and to be highlighted for resistance. Regrettably this subservient relegation of women to inferiority status is probably completely oblivious to many.
On a personal note, I’ve fortunately met some very impressive strong women: my daughter and 12 neices, and have learned to keep my mouth shut at family gatherings!
MMM

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1.23: MMM, while Christian teachings in the past may have relegated women to subordinate roles and trapped them in a particular mode and definition, today we see women rise to the top of political, financial and economic success. Yet, there are professions today who still are very male dominated – politics particularly and thecwirld if commerce, who treatbwomen very shabbily, as if the advancement of women threatens their identity and prestige of power. When it suits our male political headers, they drop women very quickly from their preferences. And, let it be said, women have acted very aggressively in positions of power and can be as protective of their territories as men are. In a modern era with so much advanced thinking and awareness of equality, we cannot blame the Blessed Virgin Mary for present day ills and struggles of women!! I wiuld still lovevto witness more women un roles of leadership in politics, church, health care and commerce..

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“Instead of condemning her, however, Jesus famously responds that only those without sin should cast the first stone.”
Serene Jones left out a part of what she has called a pivotal parable: Jesus declared. “Go now and leave your life of sin.”
People with love in their hearts will not covet another. The Church shows understanding too. Children born outside of wedlock are baptised and the parents of children are married.
Pax.

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Seamus, it seems there’s nothing you like more than the sound of your own voice. Day after day, you feel compelled to post to this blog and never contribute anything more than your own impression that you’re remotely intelligent. You are a very sad, pathetic and boring blow hard. There really is more to life than what the Roman church claims. Do try to grow as an individual one day and stop allowing others to think for you. Every comment you post would be mortifying to you if you had an ounce of intelligence.

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11:55 I just scroll past them. There’s more than enough regurgitated misunderstood scripture and amateur theology on the internet. I can’t think why he posts actually – anyone reading this blog can read the bible online if they want.

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3:12
Seamus when the paucity of his own comments is pointed out: ‘Look! Serena Jones missed out this detail which I think is important!’
Do you seriously think anyone is going to take guidance of any sort from you? 😄

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11:55, 2:53 and 4:09 are a reflection of modern society. Someone merely points out that an important detail of the woman being told to leave her life of sin has been excluded. 11:55, 2:53 and 4:09 seek to shoot the messenger, as the messenger’s truth combusts the mistruth they wish to peddle.
Pax.

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‘Children born outside of wedlock are baptised and the parents of children are married.’ …thereby demonstrating that the church covets them.

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Children baptised out of wedlock is entirely hypocritical, both of the parents and the church. But most practices in RCC are just that, hypocritical.

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11:56,
Not at all. It demonstrates that the Church is understanding of them.
At the start we all openly declare our faults: I confess to almighty God
and to you, my brothers and sisters,
that I have greatly sinned,
in my thoughts and in my words,
in what I have done and in what I have failed to do…
We have nothing to hide.
Pax.

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2:54,
Parents of children outside of wedlock have come forward for marriage by the Church out of their own free will. Parents of children outside of wedlock have come forward with their child for baptism. The Church has merely been Christian and understanding.
Pax.

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REPLY
seamusviiisays: – Dec 26, 2021 at 7:44 am “Instead of condemning her, however, Jesus famously responds that only those without sin should cast the first stone.
___________________________
I’m surprised that you’re quoting that.
It’s generally accepted today that John 7.53-8,11 is a pious insertion entered into manuscripts by copyists centuries after John wrote his gospel,
https://www.gotquestions.org/John-7-53-8-11.html

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JL 6:16,
Firstly, you can tell that to Serene Jones as it what she who selectively quoted the passage.
Secondly, there has been scholarly discussion tracing the genealogy of the written form of the pericope adulterae back to the middle of the first century? To one of the sources used in the Gospel of Luke?

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seamusviiisays: Dec 26, 2021 at 6:43 pm
you can tell that to Serene Jones as it what she who selectively quoted the passage.
______________
Well, that’s Union Theological Seminary of New York, for you.

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Archbishop Desmond Tutu has died. Here is a person of the highest integrity, commitment to justice, equality and to building God’s kingdom. A wonderful inspiration to millions around the world. He stands very tall among the Christian Leaders and pastors of Churches and way above political leaders of the world. His Christian living, teachings and witness are powerful and will inspire many for decades to come in standing with the poor, the outcasts, the wounded and excluded. His life was a true living of the gospel, unfailingly and with great fidelity.

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God rest his wee soul, great wee man he was. I always wanted to meet him and St. Martin de Porres. Sadly it will only happen now when we all get to heaven.

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The Christian story has never been something that is credible. It is so tweely and artificially constructed that it simply cannot be a story of truth or reality in fact and history. Virgin Births, Immaculate Conceptions, Resurrection, Ascension etc etc. Apparitions, Miracles etc. etc. Even the Scriptures are so evidently created with a project in mind, namely to show one particular people chosen by God and their agenda. So, it really is a load of tosh when looked at with a rational and inquiring mind and put to the test of physics,reason, logic and science. Most of it, all of it in fact, did not happen as the Churches tell us it happened. Having said that, there are glimmers and seams of some truth within the construction, which I hang on to amidst throwing out the nonsense. Things like an omnipotent and creating God / Power / Spirit. A mythical invented story used as a vehicle to try and make sense of our relationship with the Greater and with each other. The Gospel Values that give us a human way of relating to each other in peace and love. Those things are valuable to me, to us. But, I do wish that Christians would move beyond the literal and allow themselves to see things with doubt, enquiry and with nuance. That would liberate us from orthodoxies which we know have done so much harm in the past (as blogged about in today’s theme on Mary’s Virginity etc) and would allow us to be continually creative and to develop this story. I say all of this as an ordained priest, not of the RC variety, but close to it, and something which I have for a long time been open and honest about with the people to whom I minister. It is wonderful to see them enquiring and asking and developing their ‘faith’ and working their way to a developing understanding and appreciation of their relationship with the Creator, Creation, each other and themselves, and knowing that they know so little. Certainties and orthodoxies, which are delivered from on high, are not helpful and are often dangerous, perpetuating structures and authorities that have a vested interest in dictating and in perpetuating what they see or desire to be the orthodoxy and the ‘truth’. We all need to resist them and that.

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Lord Wheatley was the judge who “slut-shamed” Margaret, Duchess of Argyll n his three-hour judgment. He was a devout Roman Catholic, educated by the Jesuits. But he got his rocks off on hearing cases involving sex crimes where he was renowned for handing down harsh sentences. His son John Wheatley QC also became a judge in Scotland. It’s bizarre how in this age of tearing down statues and condemning past injustices that members of the judiciary appear to have escaped judgement

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Yes, it’s another unexpored area – judge scandals, including the Judge Curran scandal in Belfast.

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People listening to Wheatley at the time thought his judgment was describing his own marriage.

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Will RTE ever make “A Very Irish Scandal”, Bp Pat? If so, who will play the dirty abbot? I wonder.

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Curran presided over the last man that was hanged in NI, don’t know what you think, but I believe it’s time to bring back corporate punishment

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11.38
Do you mean corporal punishment?
Or maybe, capital punishment?
The latter would not be compatible with Catholic morality.

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Judge Curran’s son converted to Catholicism, I’m sure the old bastard is turning in his grave at this

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As is well documented around the world The RCC has a very long & disturbing & ongoing legacy of mistreatment of women & children & seems to have no intention of redressing this & yet is surprised that the public are voting with their feet & only engage when absolutely essential. Only a true arrogant dictatorship would continue to bullishly ignore this reality.

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12-15. Not only did Desmond Curran convert he became a Jesuit and served in South Africa. Poor oul Lancelot (the judge) had a hard time with that business but eventually accepted the situation.
The late Msgr Ambrose Macaulay was a good friend of Desmond Curran SJ

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Patsy I am very disappointed in you, I would give no consideration to the erroneous thoughts of this freethinking heretic Jones. She has the audacity to call herself a theologian, which she is not. It is quite simple, give to The Immaculate Virgin Mother of God the veneration of Hyperdulia due to her. Don’t be influenced by the incorrect ramblings of non-Catholics on the Virgin Birth, you are a naughty bold boy!
Evivva Maria!

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10.38
Bela Lugosi does not recognise the irony of her using the name of the great Robert Bellarmine, nephew of the reforming Pope Marcellus II a most devoted servant of the Bishop of Rome while calling the current Pope the Antichrist.
Add to that the infantile level of her criticism of Pat.

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Bellarminesays: Dec 26, 2021 at 10:38 am
“It is quite simple, give to The Immaculate Virgin Mother of God the veneration of Hyperdulia due to her.”
__________________
I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery. You shall have no other gods before me. – Deuteronomy, verses 5 and 6

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Lollard @ 7:14pm
Yes Joe and I’ll say it again. To Almighty God alone is due worship (Latria) but to His Blessed Mother great veneration (Hyperdulia) and to the Saints veneration (Dulia) that is Catholic doctrine.Perhaps you are to simple to understand that.
Evivva Maria!

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Please learn to love yourself and do not put yourself down my lovely, there are plenty of people on here that will do that for us x

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Bishop Pat; May you say a prayer for me that I finally conceive and give birth to a special baby next year. It’s been a long wait but I have faith that it will happen still. Thank you 🙏🏽

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I will do a novena to the holy family for you. Please God you will get your special baby xox

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Me and my wife Danielle had a lovely baby this year by surrogate. He is a very special boy and he has changed our world. But it was hard that as lesbians, we had to go out of Northern Ireland to get sorted. We felt really discriminated against. One of our friends had gender reassignment surgery earlier in the year and it was the same for him x

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Gosh. In my case all i have to do is look at my husband and I’m pregnant lol. I’ve had seven kids in six years (2 sets of twins among them). I love them to death and wouldn’t change a thing but it was hard work with so many wee ones at the one time. Christmas was so enjoyable though to see their wee faces xx

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Lyndsay, perhaps you could arrange for 11:04 to glance at your husband (nothing further required) and conceive that way?

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It will take years for us women to be seen as equal, you men can boast about sexual conquests and what you got up to, if us women speak about or vocally express interest in sex we are ‘loose’ ‘sluts’ ‘whores’ and that is not right. Just like gay people have the right to love and lust after who they want, don’t forget WOMEN are only human also.

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He doesn’t believe in women’s rights, just the rights of men to lust after and have their way with women, despite the hypocrite preaching otherwise

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Sinn Fein IRA want a United Ireland but also want to kill all the potential babies that could possibly help them in their main goal

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Let’s face it, Mary was not a Virgin, maybe upon conception but the bible has tarnished women over the years, my neighbour has 4 kids by 4 different men and the reputation she has is not nice when it was all circumstantial and unfortunate, ask yourself men, how many women have you slept with

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My wife refused to have sex with me after the death of her mother, saying she felt her mother could see us in the afterlife and it was the beginning of the end of our relationship. She has now remarried and had a new baby son, so they are not all innocent Pat

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As a Jesuit I’m ashamed off him also he is a horrible baldy man who puts on this bravado when really he is a Mafia puppet

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The Reds are livid that a top class secret will be revealed in the coming weeks and are frantically trying to keep the story from getting the green light

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When women get called loose
This is verbal abuse
When men get to boast
Women get engrossed
Time for all to be equal
Follow the Xmas story with a sequel
Live and let love
And give thanks to god above

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Bishop Buckley are you going to give Fr McCafferty a break today or are you going to continue to berate a man who has significant mental health issues? You do yourself an injustice a lot of time.

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Thank you Pat it’s important to remember that people have individual struggles and spearing on this blog can be detriment to those

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I decided those comments were unnecessary and wounding to a vulnerable person.

But people are entitled to comment on Paddy as he has created a public persona of himself.

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If I featured on this blog I would drink myself into oblivion also, I wouldn’t have the mental strength

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I agree with you Pat and let’s face it; he puts himself out there and also interferes in a lot of business which is not his own, however contrary to the previous commenter I think he gets off on being on this blog

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Pat. It is fair to say that Paddy suffers from significant mental issues and of course we must be sympathetic and kind. However, he uses that as an excuse for appalling behaviour. I myself was the victim of a completely unjustified tongue lashing from him in November. It was terrible and I still haven’t got over it. His temper is terrible and all we hear about at mass is the devil. We all try to give him a pass after all he says he’s been through, but honestly Pat he’s his own worst enemy.

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Bishop Buckley, if you were a Christian, you wouldn’t allow ANYONE to make anonymous and hurtful comments about ANYONE on your blog. You are facilitating numerous grave sins against charity and allowing malicious faceless individual(s) a platform. Although, you pretend to “care”, you actually don’t. You enjoy the malice and mischief. You allow it to happen.

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1:45 pm. If the Church was a genuine community of love covering up of abuse corruption and crime would not take place. It happens.

Liked by 1 person

1.45 you say “you wouldn’t allow ANYONE to make anonymous and hurtful comment” and yet you make that challenge anonymously?

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Father Pat is a vulnerable adult with complex needs who does his best from a horrible past. Please give him a break

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1.45
I don’t agree with you, but there are 26 others ( and their underlings( their attitude not mine) in their dioceses) on the island of Ireland that your comment does apply to. I watched Eamonn Martin from Cooley on Christmas Eve…. With his fellow fraud Malachy Conlon….. oh how they cast a spell on the impressionable….. Freud would never be done( and he was a repressed needy homosexual) . The masks in the recessional procession were a godsend. Well done to the FF Hack … Martin Long…. The only thing with duration to him is his surname. Did not intend to blog…. but Jesus wept!!!!! The comment on Christmas Eve with reference to Jojo tells the reader everything about the clericalists who post here… and the heart of Pat Buckley which is very big…..The RCC is a terminally sick society…. It’s just tragic that so many minor clergy ( a Sweeney and ilk usage) are part of what is not in their countenance. To the Rabbi of some 2000 years ago… Shalom….. welcome again. I wonder what the Argentine in Casa Santa Marta is doing right now…. Nothing as healthy as taking care of the mother of his partner I am sure…. He’s welcome to himself. I hope somewhere somewhere someone utters a Latin prayer for him…..

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Anonymous “Paul”, @ 4:02pm – the poster at 1:45pm didn’t make any malicious or hurtful comments about anyone. He/she said that if PB was a Christian he wouldn’t allow his blog to be used for such purposes. Not the
sharpest tool …. are you?
Gaslighter pretending to be “caring”alert at 12:42pm.

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4:56

This blog exposes abuse corruption and criminality in the RCC.
Is such exposure problematic? If so:why?

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All of Corpus Christi parish Masses are streamed on Church Services website and also recorded. This “Jennifer davey” is a liar. Fr McCaffery’s sermons can be heard there. The author of comments from this “Jennifer” and also “Gemma” and other comments I believe are from one person – a fellow “priest” of fr paddy. I am a parishioner of a neighbouring parish and I had the necessary of reporting a priest to bishop training about this priest who makes no secret of his hatred for fr McCaffery and has spoken about his contemp openly because fr p went over his head on a safeguard issue. This is pure evil.

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Mary is 2nd Eve. Yes in Jesus God did touch broken smelly sinful humanity Thelogians Philosophers are not God Happy New Year 🙏

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How does he get to refuse to move yet the rest of us have no option? Cover ups in RCC are from the base up, not top down

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Anyone who actually knows Fr McCafferty also knows that the comments being made here are malicious and untrue. Possibly even the work of James Donaghy and/or some of his supporters who, even after his conviction in court, think Donaghy is “innocent”.

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I can assure you Donaghy was guilty but was protected by the Church for 10 years.

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Just because you disagree with comments you automatically claim they Are malicious and untrue? I’m glad your experience of this man is positive but that doesn’t mean everybody’s is. Such arrogance

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Pat at 1:39
Yes that is what makes the church and associated cathbots dangerous. Despite the high standard of evidence required for a criminal conviction in the UK and multiple victims they stubbornly don’t believe he did it.
We see a variant of this attitude in the demands cathbots make here that we are merciful – bizarrely this always means ignoring crime and abuse and they only ever do this for a priest.
We can be certain that the abuse crisis is nowhere near over because these are exactly the twisted attitudes that facilitated it in the first place.

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It wasn’t untrue when Paddy when Paddy went to shake the Papal hand in Dublin. This was after he said he would refuse to meet Francis when he came to Ireland over abuse. He proved himself to be a pure hypocrite i’m afraid.

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@ 4:16 pm
Good comment.
Indeed; intrinsic to Charity is Integrity, Justice, Compassion and Kindness as well
as Mercy, which the Lord extends to All, not just members of the clerical fraternity.
God has no favourites. (Rom 2:11.)

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Mary was v probably likely only 12 years of age.

Catholic theology is rooted in the idea that sex is dirty, unclean and fallen v Virginity is pure, clean and holy – this theology is underpinned by the notion that hypocrisy is a currency which buys fallacy and illusion – virginity and celibacy are myths which support the Catholic project and worldview.
However, and this, I suggest is tricky and a conundrum – CS Lewis and JRR Tolkien, both professors at Oxford and unassailed experts in mythology, linguistics and ancient texts say the Infancy Narrative is a myth, like all others, the only difference is this one is true!! Nothing is impossible with God even a Virgin Birth.
The crime or sin is that sex and women have been denigrated for centuries because of a patriarchal and anti pleasure mindset which I don’t believe Jesus taught or adhered to.
I also suggest that the vast majority of clergy from antiquity until today are sexually frustrated and repressed!!

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“Gemma” (aye right) at 1:55pm – they ARE malicious and untrue.
You’re “glad” poster at 1:29pm’s “experience” of “this man” is “positive”? Oh I’m sure you are luv 😁
You’re not JUDGE “Gemma” Loughran per chance are you “Fr”? 🤣

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The illogical is always impossible – even a God cannot be dead and alive at the same time; cannot be one and three at the same time; cannot be be created out of nothing; cannot be pregnant and a virgin at the same time; cannot be god and man at the same time. If s/he can then language has no meaning and if language has no meaning, it is mere gibberish. The truth of God has to make sense in human language, not in god’s language if it is different from man’s. If the incarnation is to have any meaning that fact has to be recognised.

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4:07 Did you set out to prove that Catholics are not Christian and are a cult, or are you merely stupid?

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IIn the story of the woman taken ini adultery it is indeed surprisng that on hearing Jesus’ words the crowd drifted away. A short time later the same crowd was shouting “Crucify him. Crucify him”

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Is that your St Stephen’s Day reflection @ 2.03pm. What skeletons in your cupboard are you deflecting from I wonder? It’s usually the case.

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Father Furious is awake at 4:05. He must have got bored with the Fleshlight he got for Christmas.

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I see that Rev Jones is a minister of two denominations, one of them being a uniting church with the motto that they all may be one.
She is therefore bound to be anathema to the Romanists who are all about power and can’t share.

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On 1st of January, I hope to post a question about Michael Woods ( 86, FF, knight of Columbanus, friend of evil) on this blog. He represents everything about the church/ state deal to do in the non conforming credal citizen in this papal state ( until very recently), the Brutons along with him( it defied party lines) . Never a Natziesque Catholic as Dermot Ahern and old man Mc Gahon( repressed both of them I am sure). Dev had no time for an Irish President who was a knight of Columbanus…. and Garret Fitzgerald always did his best to make sure one his cabinet was free of them…. He did not succeed. Michael Woods is 86…. May he die roaring!!!!

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Michael Woods had a criminal law removed by the Irish Parliament to protect every complicit Catholic Bishop responsible for child and minor abuse. His is an inestimable guilt. Carried out under instructions.

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The recent funeral of a clergyman in Dromore has president. Eamonn Martin, how hermetically sealed is your team ?

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Always be Drunk . Baudelaire. If you are not familiar with it, I am sure it would benefit you and your expansive ilk. Enjoy it, it is a wonderful poem.

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All Priests should be considered good people unless otherwise proven. Women make the world go round and are a far better species than men.

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Well there is interesting drama on the local presbytery, two priests are not seeing eye to eye and one will be being transferred shortly

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Michael Woods. Yes….. not a minute to waste…… 86 and aging…there is enough to keep any FF TD of younger years wondering what will bight in the future. I hope Michael Martin…. another RC Hack…. Enjoyed his rasher sandwiches yesterday morning as time stopped for him. As I say…. Jesus wept!!!

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Good afternoon Bishop, I trust you and your ones had a lovely day yesterday. I’m sure fellow priests and Bishops across the board fear the day they end up on your good blog. Keep the good work up and keep these clergy men on their ballerina toes.

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Direct Quote:
“ Rory, where is my fucking Mozzetta?”, asked by His Excellency Eamonn Martin.

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The death of St Stephen is one of the great homoerotic pieces of art ever painted. Iconic for so much of what preceded and followed… and is yet ahead. Mind you I am glad I did not live in. time when I received a box from my masters ( Boxing Day). I was never one on blended knee to a prince bishop. Owen Mc Cann despised The Anglican Archbishop of Cape Town…. He must have had something!!!!!! Let’s see if Robinsons ego can stay away from his funeral in these COVID times…. Bet the self serving repressed Catholic is in the front seat…. So much for the 15 letter of the Greek alphabet. She may well be holding Hillary’s hand ( out of view). Plenty for today….😂😂😂😂😂

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I have only met the retired auxiliary of Cape Town. Had dinner with him in CT. He had been involved in a gay Internet scandal.

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6.34
A total shit artist….. they could have sent him to Ootshourn….. a John Maggey connection. Mc Cann warned Mc Gee to stay away from his student ( in the 70s) …. That student became a bishop. Cassan ( Rip Kilkenny) and Stanton ( Rip Cape Town) liked to pray together….. even more so if Mc Crystall ( a really good guy… very good looking) was around. Mc Vrystall shared with Hugh Jones in z Maynooth ( Bank of Scotland at a time), his good looks sank a few dioceses. Sweeney saved gullible Brady from banking with them. Hugh Jones is the nephew of Jones of Elphin, a bollpx if ever there was one. ; Hugh Jones is a decent and honourable man. He was not responsible for the effect of his visage on the repressed homosexuality of the Irish Episcopal bench. Denis Nulty could never get enough of him.

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S. Sebastiane, ora pro nobis! That’s when folks thought they were safe on the internet and could not be outed. Dis aliter uisum.

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Pat I know that priesthood attracts strange characters but have you ever known a gambling addict priest? Ours is never out of the bookies

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How do they afford to gamble on their £3k a month salary? And if they won what would they be spending it on?

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In the late 1970s Fr Vincent McKinley lost £ 2000 on one horse. He was inconsolable.

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Gambling is the least strange thing about priests. I know one who is addicted to food and twinks. You know who you are.

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6.21: We know who you are. The plonker who posts the same stupid moronic comments every day. Limited intelligence, you poor sod. Return to school.

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Look how our free press treats the beautiful Duchess of Sussex, Meghan. That poor lady has been vilified all because she is a woman and also of mixed heritage. Women have a long way to go in the fight for equality. Back in the noughties Ulrika Johnson would frequently be named ‘4×4’ for having 4 children by 4 men. How disrespectful is that? Rod Stewart would never be named ‘100×98’.

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I watched Eamonn Martin from Cooley on Christmas Eve with Malachy Conlon, another fraud…. as Malachy and Mc Ginnity defamed Ledwith , they enjoyed each other’s biceps… a particularl talent of Mc Ginnitys for any good looking student ( the hypocrite…). Martin Long, that failed FF Hack has done their Lordships a lot of service. The ceremony was bland and dull. Cooley is an interesting place…. But the RCC is redundant there….. Malachy and his studied emptiness will carry it a little while longer.

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Eamonn Martin, I intend to write what I intimated to you in 2018. If you continue to indict my health… well….. let’s see….
It is my first understanding that you have engendered fear in the entire Armagh clergy… almost to a man. Your narrative to negate me has and will fail. I may be lowly but I have what you don’t….

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Remaining a
Priest is a sign of some measure of psychosis….. to say nothing of neurosis. But then without the material benefits, the templates of many might shift to entire psychological destruction. Watch the visage of Martin on the RTE player…. It’s a study in shutdown.

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That’s a disgrace Bishop Pat isn’t it, gambling is for fools, and to think of how many poor are out there. I knew a priest who was diagnosed with diabetes and changed overnight.

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A lot of priests are alcoholics as they are lonely. Don’t use it as a weapon against them.

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Diabetes can do that though. Terrible mood swings it can create as blood sugar levels plummet or the opposite

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I wish to have categorical clarity; Hugh Jones is as decent and honourable as men go…. He had charms( innate and without guile) that won his company custom.

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Unlike many of the clerical fold, I am a believer, however naïve the Clayton and Co find me. That is my disappointment with The Lie I have my very best to….. my very best…

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@6.14pm It is my business because you made it public. Why dont you contact Mulvi (silly name) directly as you know him so well (not). Your own post sums you up.

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Oh jog on I can see what you are doing here and I will not put up with this behaviour. You don’t even put your name on your comments you coward

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I think of George Pell ( we are very different people) , but I cannot over he has not spoken one word of bitterness about the entire experience. There is depth and decency to that man. I always knew it. He has done something that is best without words ( only seven percent of human communication is verbal; well according to they that know at the moment). If by any chance one of his friends reads this blog; if he remembers me, please tell George Pell I say hello.

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Yes but remember most have second part time jobs on the sly also. Don’t pay them for services they provide they are well paid as it is.

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6.36 pm anon
Don’t be so ridiculous. There are many, many people who don’t earn £3 k a year, even with both working full time.
Go back to your idiot planet.

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Why has Martin Long lasted 18 years among them( salary apart), particularly in the light of his abhorrent distain for most of them? Why did FF get rid of him? Of course next instalment in an assault on my character/ health. Don’t bother boys…. There’s nothing you can do effects me. Tell me where I can send a cheque for 6.66 euros for a mass….. for the intentions of the Holy Father?

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When Bishop Herlihy of Ferns accepted his appointment ( others had been asked…. Like Eamonn Martin…. Or James Varroll of Drogheda, the seventh to be asked to take it), it set off a chain of events which only ended a few years ago.

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Paddy Corish and I had a mutual respect for one another despite the differing age and world view. We had many conversations. He and John Quinlan ( and others) came to my ordination. He told me many things….. I remember sitting in his rooms , he looke out the window towards st Mary’s and quipped sadly; “ someday the cry of rape will go up from over there. “ Little did he know. I hope I never tell some of what he tragically told…..that is not a threat. I think too much of a man who realised there could have been another life ( like Frank Donnelly and myself in closed sitting after a Friday lunch. Donnelly was disarmingly honest with me… I would never discuss it….. of course he was hoping for a return… he didn’t get it. Sean Brady “ will you take him?,”

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Gerry Clifford in his Highfield bed ( housed to contain what he was not able to deal with( a Nrady biggie and much more): of Eamonn Martin he said; he has a lot to learn. Eamonn Martin visited him in Highfield, when he left he said to a person ; “ it would be a great blessing if God took him.” I am afraid it didn’t die with him Dr. Martin’.

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The insurance bill for the ambulance flight from Florida…. Is it paid offf ?????😂😭😭😭😭

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I knew Mc Cann…. He hated Tutu….. he didn’t have what Tutu had ( the Tom O Fiach factor). Mc Vannn like Eamonn Martin and their kind liked to speak of being in love before they joined up…. The inference always to a woman/ girl…. The only ones they were/are fooling is themselves…. Like Bergoglio himself( though I fear that’s very dark)…. Mc Vann was an old crocodile….a woman asked him once” but Your Eminence, what about the Holy Spirit?”…… he said back to her; “ my dear, I am the Holy Spirit.” Pell told me that story. Tutu did his best…. He would never have got the chance in the RCC. They have used the equivalent of apartheid for centuries to divide.

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Yes a lot of priests have second jobs it’s no new thing, father Darren Brennan has properties round County Antrim and has a stake in a flowers business in Ballymena

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Perhaps Bishop Buckley, somewhere down the tracks, the deaths of such as William Doherty and others could be looked at. In particular, the role of the Roman Catholic Church and their homophobic bullying of him. It’s the stuff of fiction, but I am afraid it’s very real . I don’t know how Sean Nrady and sichael Toner…. and their acquaintance s reconcile their pursuit of that man with civilised society. So much badness…. And they prance about sanctuaries administering penetential rites.

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Sean O Neill if for once he could honestly gave the truth of what he belongs to could say much on my most recent comment. He is the parish priest of Carraigmore and a faithful servant to their Ordinariesness.

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Did you ever have a second job Pat? I thought priests were meant to be married to God and the job? Father Robert Sloan’s family owns a garage and he would be regularly seen working in it.

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I didn’t think of that as a second job but rightly so, sure Fr Vincent Cushanan writes a piece for the Andersonstown News. Mostly to do with moral issues or religion.

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Fr. Brian White is off ministry at the moment for a reason known to me. He bad mouthed me in my home village like the rest of Eamonn Martin’s sychophants. White was bullied severely by that parish priest. Aidan Mc Cann followed him…. He tooo was bullied…. Lifted out very quickly. But Eamonnn Martin leaves in situ what suits him. If there was a regulatory body instead of a medieval lord, the good clergy might have some measure of a life. But then Emonnn Martin is….. essentially……a———-

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Any extreme is usually a heresy. Venerating Mary as Mother of God and our Mother isn’t a statement about sexual morality, at least in a balanced mind. The mistreatment of women and the vilification of the sexual gift would not, I feel, be pleasing to the virgin mother or her tender infant. Also a belated Happy Christmas to +Pat and all his readers. 🎄

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Ah yes that old canard:
Enthusiastic Priest Meets with his Archbishop;
Priest: ‘The Holy Spirit told me to go to Sunderland’
Archbishop: ‘Listen up son, as far as your concerned I am the Holy Spirit and I’m telling you your not going to Sunderland because I say so.’
Weird that anybody could claim to be the Third Person of the Trinity.
If more clergy told their bishop to feck off it would be a happier church.
Holy Spirit my arse.

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Father Christy O Brien, recently deceased, a priest of Armagh who retired from Clogherhead to the most beautiful county ( and welcoming !) in Ireland held that RC priests should be married….for only on reason…..so that their wives could tell the bishop to ‘ Fuck off.” As good a reason as any to change the mistake of 1000 years.

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It’s time Marcus Mc Keown stepped forward to describe the culture he endured in the Archdiocese of Armagh. He was a man, neither priest nor cleric and they bounced him around. Many details held in petto.

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The story about the warring priests in St Patrick’s is very interesting. The incumbent PP, a loving British monarch toasting individual, has rowed with the past two newly ordained curates, so much so that they requested moves away. That he should row with a third newly ordained priest is hardly surprising. However it was seen at the time of this curates appointment to st Patrick’s that he wouldn’t take any shit from O’Neill who is widely disliked both in the parish and by his fellow north Belfast clergy.

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…. And Fr Paddy Rushe…. And Father Gerry Campbell would have a few fretful hours deciding who to back…..

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Yes Fr Peter Owens owns runs a local shop in Carrick but I often wondered what he does with profits? Charity maybe?

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You would like to think it goes to charity, Fr Forsyth from Christ the Redeemer owns 50% of the Temple restaurant.

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‘Charity’: the holy priests are other Christs and little Godlings and so are themselves charities.

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Father Kieran Whiteford had better pick his battles more wisely in the future, we are not a soft bunch down here, maybe table your alcohol issue before your parishioners in future.

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You may well be right 8:14 given his family connection to the bishop of bling. An odious irrelevant little actor is O’Neill. I’ve never heard a man from Antrim speak like he does in such lofty tones. Any truth in the rumour that he was asked to do an extra year in seminary as they weren’t too convinced about his “calling”? This would be somewhat ironic as many of his parishioners aren’t too convinced either

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I wonder how the Doms, i.e. Richard, Ella and Kitty, have spent Christmas now they have all lost their thrones, one after the other. Poor cows.

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Pat have you ever met a bigger clown than Fr Brendan Smyth (the living but equally as deluded one)? He’s a sad individual and I will expose to you about him very soon all I know, I do have your number and email address thanks.

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This is not nasty, there is still a loving Father Brendan Smyth with no connection to the Paedophile. While the current living one is not a Paedophile, he is equally as disturbed in his behaviour and personality.

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Now, to set aside ramblings concerning those that claim religion and its governance for themselves; on the subject of the feminine relating to culture and matters biblical, Elisabeth Schussler Fiorenza has never been surpassed. ” In memory of her” is a feminist reconstruction of a history entirely patriarchal in our times……her vision may never unfold…..but closer to the divine a writer rarely gets,,,,,

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Goodness, 6:41, you have impressed the entire internet with the supreme intelligence and massive vocabulary of your comment.
Have you thought of submitting it as a PhD thesis?

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Of course us clergy read this blog, anyone that says they do not is lying – we, within, know the base of truth that PB exposes

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It would help if you did this Bishop Pathttps://www.surinenglish.com/malaga/malaga-city/watch-malagas-flamenco-20211223125143-nt.html

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So much of clergy disagreements and personnel problems exposed here this evening could be avoided if each diocese in Ireland and beyond filled their parochial vacancies the way the Anglicans do: Advertise a vacancy and only those who are interested will apply. The successful applicant stays until they want to move. All problems solved.

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I know that readership of this blog has increased dramatically here in the Motherwell diocese among the clergy and I believe lots of Glasgow clergy find it compulsive reading after recent revelations and Keenan’s I’ll fated jousting with Pat.

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