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WHY DO CATHOLIC BISHOPS ENTERTAIN AND COVER UP MISBEHAVIOUR BY PRIESTS AND SEMINARIANS?

It has now been well established, internationally, that Roman Catholic bishops, ignore, entertain and cover up wrong doing by priests and seminarians.

This behaviour has covered child sexual abuse, adult abuse, priests fathering children and on rarer occasions clerical violence and murder. It has also covered priests encouraging their mistresses to have abortions.

But this entertainment and cover up is apparent these days when it comes to homosexuality and homosexual wrongdoing.

If the RC priesthood is now an overwhelmingly gay profession – which it is – and bishops are chosen from priests – then very many bishops themselves are gay.

Some bishops, I don’t the numbers, are gay and not sexually active.

Others are gay and sexually active.

The priesthood and seminaries provide bishops with rich pickings when it comes to procuring younger men for sex – as we saw with Cardinal Ted Mc Carrick.

Bishops are very powerful men in the context of priests and seminarians.

It’s not easy for a young priest or seminarian to refuse the sexual advances of a bishop or archbishop.

THE PUNISHMENTS:

Bishops can publish young priests for refusing their sexual advances in various ways:

1. You become a pariah in the bishop’s house and offices.

2. You get sent to the roughest and poorest parishes or get sent as a curate to dictatorial and barbaric parish priests who will make your life hell.

3. You get deprived of positions on diocesan committees and bodies and never get offered any of the hand outs available to the bishop – being sent on courses, being granted sabbaticals etc

4. The bishop and his cronies will quietly bad mouth you among the clergy giving you a bad name in the clerical club. Other clerics will avoid you to please His Lordship.

SEMINARIANS

Seminarians who refuse a bishop’s sexual advances will be dismissed from the seminary, without a reason and with no right of appeal.

GAY BISHOPS WHO SEXUALLY MISBEHAVE “BY PROXY”.

Licence paid

Some bishops are so sexually and emotionally immature and unintergrated they get their rocks off “by proxy” – by entering into an unspoken arrangement with naughty gay priests and seminarians.

Just as a parent who never got to university gets to go there through their children, some bishops who never explored their gay sexuality get to go there by:

– Hearing about priests and seminarians sexual behaviour.

– Hearing the detail of all these younger men get up to.

– And joining with these younger men in an unspoken and undeclared collusion. This happens through the bishop showing no disapproval, listening to the young men stories, and by giving them the wink and nod to continue knowing that the bishop is protecting them. This creates a non spoken sexual frisson between the priest, seminarian and bishop.

Like an irresponsible and dysfunctional father taking a secret and terribly misplaced glee in his son’s criminal behaviour.

The Roman Catholic episcopate and priesthood is almost completely dysfunctional.

TO MISQUOTE PHILIP LARKIN

They fuck you up, your bishops do   
    And they mean to, so they do.   
They fill you with the shit they had
    And add some extra, just for you.

But they were fucked up in their turn
    By fools with crosiers and with rings.
Who half the time were soppy pious.
    And half at one another’s things.

Man hands on misery to man.
    It deepens like a coastal shelf.
Get out as early as you can,
    And never get ordained yourself.

By the way – these bishops and priests do not believe in RCC teaching. They give it lip service.

It applies to the laity and not to them.

117 replies on “WHY DO CATHOLIC BISHOPS ENTERTAIN AND COVER UP MISBEHAVIOUR BY PRIESTS AND SEMINARIANS?”

Iconic to the Irish scene are Brendan Commiskey and the elusive ( for years and years) Tommy Brennan. I can elaborate. I don’t want to. More fun and real if its more contemporaneous ….and it is. The names who can witness to my first sentence all begin in Maynooth…..particularly the Deans……and that shit Noel O Sullivan.

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May our Blessed Lady, whose solemnity we celebrate tomorrow, 1st January, guide all who profess to be followers of Jesus, not just clerics but all who claim to be Christian. May she touch the hearts of all so that we are renewed in the way of Jesus Christ. And who of us doesn’t need her blessing? Every good wish Pat for a blessed 2022.

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The answer to all cover up is money – they rely on the idea of below the tipping point – contain the scandal and the people forgive and forget; reach the tipping point and the people vote with their feat and stop donating – how far away is the tipping point? Has the tipping point been reached?
Money and wealth are Mammon – honesty, transparency, accountability and justice to be avoided at all costs.
Martels thesis doesn’t just apply to the Vatican it’s the spotlight into every diocese around the world.

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Well the tipping point is very influenced by intangible things like reputation, which is what has really been destroyed by the abuse scandal. I would say because of this the tipping point was reached in the early 2000s with the revelations in the Boston Globe. These came on the heels of already reduced church going and lack of interest in the world outside.
The RC church was bound to lose more over this because even if the statistical level of abuse in other churches wasn’t lower, they didn’t make it an international scandal and particularly haven’t been going round arrogantly claiming to be the one true church for centuries!
It’s particularly ridiculous when clergy rant that it’s not fair that RC priests are the ones with the public perception of being abusers – talk about missing the point completely. If you work for an organization with a reputation for covering up crime, you can only expect people to assume you’re a criminal.

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This cartoon of RC bishops incorporates several derisory perceptions many individuals currently attribute to them.
For me, it highlights that they are invariably FAT.
I relate that to a perceived customary lifestyle of indolent self indulgence and minimal exertion, physically, mentally, and certainly spiritually. This too seems applicable to many lower hierarchy RC clerics. How often do you see a physically active fit cleric over 40?
It certainly begs questions as to the extent ordinary individuals should, in these financially difficult times, be contributing to clerical non productive parasitical lifestyles.
Beyond that lies questions concerning the extent to which RC accumulated wealth in property, possessions, and financial/valuables deposit should be released for the common welfare.
The time will come………..
MMM

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12.36: MMM: What a lovely new year greeting!! Happy 2022 to you too!!!😎😎😎: When a cleric is seen out walking, cycling, running or swimming, he’s told he’s a self absorbed narcissist. If a cleric is fat, you fat shame which is bullying and harrassment. I’m sure though this isn’t your intention!!😎😎😎….Having spent a great amount of years doing all the healthy activities, I’m now crippled with arthritis and of an age when losing weight is more difficult but it doesn’t interfere in my work schedule. Sadly, your comments are very offensive and unnecessary. I can list at least 6/8/10 colleagues my own age who are now suffering serious neurological illnesses, in much pain and discomfort but they are still working away. Your mischievous jeering is very mean spirited. I trust you are in good health and hopefully the new year might resurrect a kinder spirit in you!!! A vain hope!!!😎😎😎 . What you’ve produced at 12.36am is rather nasty.

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7.45: Your aspiration for Maisie from the Mournes will indeed be a vain one. MMM prides himself on being wickedly nasty. My observations are that this nastiness kicks in late into the nights. Could this be indicative of influences of a spirit of some kind???🥂🍠🍢🥂🍻🍺🥂🍺🍸🍸…

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At least I’m not hitting 80 like you, MMM. You have a cheek talking about being a parasite. Your entire so-called career and your platinum-plated pensions were/are paid for by taxpayers. You were a net taker, not contributor to the tax take.

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MMM brilliant comment and can I just say you must please continue to comment here to provide the holy ones with another opportunity to prove you so right?

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Thank you A. 1:22. Yes I will continue for indeed many who respond with hostility simply show themselves up. For example the commentator @ 12:23 regularly plays the same tune and, well at least this time, seems to have abandoned his Shoesmith diatribe. References to pensions rarely mention the worker’s own contribution throughout a working life. This averages 6.5% in public employment schemes.
MMM

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Pure jealousy about pensions, MMM. And the Shoesmith diatribe always omits that she won a claim for constructive dismissal. 😂
Cathbots aren’t the most intelligent…

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MMM 12:36, what about the Episcopal leader who undertook the walk of reconciliation during Advent? His current day successor runs marathons! On the subject of walks of reconciliation. All Episcopal leaders should do likewise.

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4.49: MMM – Don’t we all “show ourselves up” at some stage? Either we are crusty old octogenarians or smart alecy cynics, atheists with excessive, vehement anti Catholic/Christian narratives or Christians wuth a nasty streak or clerics who are freaked out and act stupud; or we can be nasty and unkind or decent and humane. We are either sympathetic and merciful or simply a bad human being with zero respect or kindness for anyone. I do not believe in deliberately destroying others with vile commentary. There is often too much tolerance on this blog for the nastier side of human nature.

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Dear Bishop Pat,
Firstly I would like to wish you and your readers a prosperous 2022. It is with deep sadness and a certain amount of regret that I write to you today. You may or may not want to post this on your blog. That is up to you.
I have become aware in recent times of serious wrongdoing, as you might put it, in my Diocese, in which serious hurt has been caused by a member of the clergy. I couldn’t possibly discuss it in detail on this blog.
The result of which, for the victim, is hesitancy to speak out, trauma and mental exhaustion – to name but a few effects. They are a complete shadow of what they were as a person. Shame on this particular jurisdiction for allowing the hurt and escapades of this tearaway to continue.
As much as we are led to believe the opposite, many threads of your blog today hold uncomfortable truths. There will be the cavalry who come to the defence of the wrongdoers. However, they should examine closely those they shield, and stop hunting Papal Knighthoods or beatification.
One cannot defend the indefensible.
The following questions must be put to the relevant bishop:
• Who are the problem-makers?
• Why do they seem untouchable?
• What do they know?
• Are there others scared to be heard?
• Why are some clerics rebuked, and others not?
I heard about your blog last month Pat. I am annoyed beyond words at what I have been told by an effected individual. My heart goes out to them. The detail is astonishing, the breadth of wrongdoing quite unnerving, the level of scheming and inaction – quite typical for those involved I would imagine.
It is fair to say that the brazen nature of some could result in a hastily decided career move.
Let us in this New Year focus our minds on the pursuit of what is right. It should never be a witchhunt, but an attempt to right wrongs and face up to hard facts in a Christian way.
Pat, I must request you and your readers’ opinion: is it time to address the Papal Nuncio or the Church institutions in Europe about their people of interest?
There is much to be concerned about in this correspondence, but I hope it will shine a light on the poor state of affairs which exist, as ever, behind the scenes.
In prayerful hope of the Lord’s Intervention,
Concerned Parishioner (Northern Ireland)

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The Paypal Nuncio will do nothing.
Rome will do nothing.
Exposure.
Civil authorities.
Cut off funds.

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6.16 am. Bishop Pat

The phrase is – ‘Stop The Coin’

The worthy should receive funds, ie, Those Who Do Good, which applies to people like you Bishop Pat.

I think the laity are getting wiser, albeit slowly.

Happy New Year to you and your partner.

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Cutting off coin until behaviour rises to at least a minimum standard is something. One issue is how a good many Church agencies have a notable government funding. I wonder if it helped buy silence at times when bishops could have spoken.

Happy New Year.

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4.01am: Seems an odd time of morning to express such a narrative. It merely hints at something which you consider relevant but there are a myriad of conclusions we can draw which may not be correct and also injurious to suspected individuals. If it is possible to state more specifically the nature of your concerns, it would be conducive to debate. If this is a safeguarding issue of concern to you, then go to the civil authorities. Immediately. Otherwise your well expressed concerns will be used by others to further their agenda.

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Good morning my regal friend and a happy new year. Bishop Treanor is covering up the homosexual and promiscuous lifestyle of a priest who has many complaints against his name and who actually does not care if he is caught or not as he openly admits ‘’my time is up’’

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My own opinion would be that these offending bishops and priests were often insignificant young men at school. Let me explain. They never fitted in. They weren’t part of the cool crew. The positions they get in the RCC allows them to flip the story . They see themselves as now having power, having authority and it goes to their heads. They can do whatever they want now. They have the full weight of the rcc behind them now. If they want to engage in sexual practices and abuse( mental or physical) towards others then they see that as their right. These weak men now see themselves as powerful. Their eyes have been opened and they like what they see. They enjoy the power, the feeling of being macho . It’s got nothing to do with serving Jesus Christ. Christ has become the Trojan horse . The simple answer though is they engage and allow people to be used because they can and they have no moral conscience

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What a delightful rewriting of a poem, Bishop Pat!!!! I’d have thought a more spiritual day would be appropriate on the 1st January 2022. Disappointed but then I remember the raison d’etre of your blog…

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Compared to the church’s past history, gay priests and/or seminarians having the odd quickie nowadays, or being part of a daisy chain will just be viewed as a minor breach of celibacy as long as it’s discreet consenting adults. Things only get messy when they appear on Grindr, for example, or discovered in a sauna swinging from the ceiling in a leather suspension harness.

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Off topic for which I apologise.
Here goes:
The two Priest/Monks from Glastonbury were to leave at the end of the year.
It is now a New Year, have they left the presbytery?

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10.37 am

“Must be re-homed together”?

Mmm – I think they are either still in the presbytery or Buckfast Abbey.

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Following the developments in the Purcell / OCSO case (still ongoing, the ramifications of which are far fromt finished), surely bishops and superiors recognise that when this blog mentions suspected wrongdoing by an individual clerical (which usually involves sexual activity / denial / coverup / hypocrisy etc. etc.), it means that there is something amiss. + Pat does not, it seems to me, publish material that does not have any foundation in reality. He is invariably proven correct, and has in most cases quietly approached the individuals concerned and their bishops / superiors in order to have the matter resolved. Only then, when there is no response or just obstinate denial / coverup / lies, does he go public. Others then wade in, and more facts and truth come tumbling out. I would have though that these bishops / superiors would have the common sense to listen to what + Pat is saying, take note of his initial approach to them, and deal with the matter collaboratively and find a sensible way forward that resolves the issue justly and honestly for all concerned, indulging for the priest / seminarian/ individual at the centre of the issue. Not to do so simply suggests how thick, stupid and arrogant these bishops / superiors are. They really do need to take note of Purcell and the OCSOs. The truth, the facts, have given + Pat authority, influence, truth and integrity which bishops / superiors are seeing rapidly slip from their hands. Simple example: if you approach + Pat he will respond and react; if you approach a bishop / superior all you get is obstruction, obfuscation, denial, coverup, self-interest etc. I know whom I would rather approach with a concern. No wonder this blog continues to flourish.

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The Reverend Mother of a certain Carmelite Monastery would charitably say there was a ‘sad happening’ when a priest was implicated in a sex scandal. Many bishops could have prevented these sad happenings from becoming a source of titillation by engaging with Bishop Pat and acting decisively to deal with the problem when first notified.

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Yeah, like we know who, we know when, we know why and why not, resulting in
major knots!
+ Pat is only one phone call away.

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I would appeal to + Longley of Birmingham to take the constant mentions of Oscott and its culture very seriously. He needs to contact + Pat and ask what he knows and to whom he can talk in order to get an idea of what has gone on and what continues to go on in that place. To date he has been naively trusting and shortsighted. He has some real looming problems on his hands. I would encourage him to engage. I mean, a place that is able to so recently produce someone like Jolly surely requires some investigation ?

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‘I would have though that these bishops / superiors would have the common sense to listen to what + Pat is saying’
No chance, the idiots that become bishops and superiors. Unlike yourself they can’t or won’t see the pattern you describe.

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Very insightful analysis I would suggest that this blog has become a very good indicator of what is rotten in the State of the RCC. We have all learnt that there is no smoke without fire – even the various comments about the superior of a Cistercian monastery and their propensity to drink and have mishaps offers a useful insight. Clearly, the RCC is operating in the 50s where power, control and lack of communication was to the fore. The RCC refuse to accept reality. Ignore, ignore and it will go away…..it doesn’t as Fr Purcell discovered. Arrogance does not override TRUTH. Truth brings freedom.

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Father Michael Dolman would be delighted to engage with anyone who has concerns about Oscott michael.dolman@oscott.org or direct dial 0121 321 5035 (UK number) St Mary’s College, Oscott Chester Road Sutton Coldfield B73 5AA.
As the buck stops with him.
Must be factual and evidential.

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I think Dolman has been given plenty of information, both factual and evidential, regarding a certain deacon. The buck doesn’t stop with him but with the candidate’s bishop.

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Jim can’t be feeling well – there are NO capitals in the comment and NO statement that NO seminary wants a sexually active seminarian ordained.

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12.17
I am not Jim S however keep trying and it will get answered.
Remember the Seminarians are on placements for Christmas.
Father Michael does answer his direct line.

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Perhaps it’s better no mass than two dames of the antique disposition offering mass in the ancient form and throwing a strop when their father in Christ tells them to offer the ordinary rite of mass. If they had pastoral solicitude for the parishes concerned, they would have obeyed.

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12.25 pm
But, are they still residing there or have they gone to their new home together, this seems unknown.
.

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Its “the contraceptive culture”. Nobody is held accountable for individual actions (unless out of favour). Just put a new layer into the system to address ‘process accountability’ and blame the system, not the man.

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@12.26 you missed the point. This is not about the use of sexual contraceptive. It is the bigger picture of a culture where actions are detached from resulting consequences.
But permit me yo say this, while you may be right in terms of sexual contraceptive, you are only right on a surface level. Just because the condom can limit VD transmission and procreation does not remove the emotional responsibility for the other lover. Sex makes both parties vulnerable. Plenty of blogs here have addressed this issue – such a priest-dad’s who’s responsibility to their lover would not have been prevented by introduction of contraceptive.

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1.42
I don’t think I missed the point at all. Actions have consequences. On that issue I am in agreement with you. You have missed the point if you interpreted my comment as meaning something else.

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Your Grace, it would appear – if prior blogs are anything to go by – that the crisis of homosexuality within the church transcends seminaries. Rather, some rotten apples of the well established clergy, close members of the laity and the diaconate.
Speaking of which, any news on the Glasgow Daisy Chain or what the upper echelons of the Church plan to do about it?

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Nursery is too wet to act. As Oscott is now a national seminary, it should have broader supervision. A faculty member was sexually active with other seminarians in formation and after his ordination. He doesn’t even attempt to moderate his homosexual character. I am all for equal marriage and LGBTQ rights. But such a lifestyle is inconsistent for RC priests. The idea of a gay priest forming new priests to teach others that homosexuality is “disordered” is just laughable. The place has lost all credibility. Change must happen at the top, and it’s time to renew the staff and for clear parameters to be set for the seminarians.

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As a national seminary each Bishop selects his type of candidate and expects a middle of the road school of theology and liturgy, this is a recipe for the mediocre.

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6:31. You are indeed correct. Bishop Bling is indeed covering up for a Belfast priest who has had multiple complaints filed against him. I wonder though, are you an associate, fellow priest because not many outside of the ‘club’ are aware of this.

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Re your comment Bishop Pat at 12.46 maybe the day I leave the RCC for good Scotland needs a toxic clean.

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Bonnie Scotland does not need a toxic clean.
Scotland is far better positioned than elsewhere in the UK and Republic of Ireland.
What Scotland needs is stronger Leadership but that will be at least ten years away unless through illness of the current dreamful Episcopate that is in Scotland now.
Income is down 30% and most dioceses are posting massive losses and paisley is yet to declare OSCR is about to strike Paisley of the Charities register.

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12.58pm
Change can’t happen at the top as Nursey is gay and wet and weak and loves to be bossed around (that’s his ting) – he said as much at the enquiry and wouldn’t know how to make a decision if his life depended on it.
Birmingham is a gay diocese – it’s run by gays for the gays and a bitchy catty harem of queens they are.
The bitchiest diocese on Gods earth I could reel them off one by one!!
Oscott is a gay seminary – no way would a straight seminarian survive.
A Spotlight on Oscott would be refreshing as it was revealing.
It’s also been the breeding ground the Alma Mater of many a predatory paedophile – enabled by the system which embraces gays and to hell with everyone else.
Parents should catch on – your young men are in dangerous jeopardy if they are at Oscott.
Oh the walls of Oscott give up your dark seedy secrets.

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Couver the Groove was a raging gay man – ask Fr John Osmon he knows all about that and Couve privileged gay clergy ask Bishop Stock – oh and Couve covered up child abuse because he was compromised himself. That’s how the cookie crumbles in Birmingham- funny how Bishop Wright was promoted so quickly too – what does he know? What did he do?

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Ahhhh, Osman….now there’s a blast from the past ! He was appointed to Dorchester by Couve decades ago. Why ? He wasn’t even a Birmingham priest. He’s been there a least 25 years. Not going to budge either. Why ? How come he gets to enjoy the delights of Dorchester on Thame, a private mooring on the Thames, a lovely Georgian mansion house, and a genteel parish ? Couve knew the tidal wave was coming, and got out before it hit in catastrophic fashion. Wise man. He would have been eaten alive by IICSA, along with Dan Leonard. Their only defence would have been that was how it was done in those days. Other commentators are right about Birmingham. It is as gay as a coot. And, for most clergy, the great sin is having been so stupid to do something that you got caught, as per Jolly. They couldn’t care a toss about what he was heading off to do. Their usual mantra is, “but for the Grace of God go us”. Don’t get caught. If you do they will turn on you.

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Actually the reason Couve resigned was he thought he was dying of cancer. He wasn’t.

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– How much of the seven (approx) years at seminary / placements is sacramental?
– All seminaries are run by archbishops who ought to shoulder a decent father’s duty not the crooked fathers described above
– Is infatuation considered a sacrament?
– Is being seen to invade personal space a sacrament?
– Likewise being seen to smirk during an ordination (which comes over as too ad hominem)?
– Is putting up with an atmosphere of intensity consent?
– Is giving the benefit of the non-doubt consent?
– Did the glossy brochure that they were given before they went in, explain that there are different principles to morale for different students and that you don’t know which you are?
– Is fending off passes and transferred feuds consent?
– Are disordered intensity, passes and infantile favouritism by archbishops or others a sacrament?
– A minority of junior suffragans in England, and a number of ordinary seminarians and priests did not intentionally buy into this
– How important is it to flatter ethnic elements for whom a few years in a seminary or priesthood is a nice thing for your mother to have on her CV?
– What has ordination to do with sacraments?
– Is the Vatican City State religion about “prestidigitating”?
– What was it Becciu disagreed with the Vatican City State about, which certainly wasn’t shares in Sloan Avenue?
– We should never forget the utterly abysmal role of all the VDs and we should urgently put any halfway honest bishops on their guard against all of the VDs
– I understand the idea of hostages to fortune, but the payoff is getting difficult to puzzle out. Lay children will form the pool for the pitiful scrapings of future recruits to be recruited from. It’s “better” that they be “appropriately” demoralised before they go in, rather than have the bother to accustom them, and the risk of their demanding compensation from Dolman, Longley, Moth et al / taking their own lives / dropping out (perhaps after they were talked into giving up property or livelihood). The “now you don’t see it, now you do” sacrament concept hasn’t been doing the trick.

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Here’s the thing – the Birmingham clergy are pissed with Jollie, Walshe and Quigley not because of their abuse but because they got caught.
I heard a Birmingham priest describe Jollie as a bastard but not because of the crime but because of the shame he rained down on Oscott and Birmingham.
Here’s the thing – does anyone seriously think that the powers that were didn’t know about Jollie – of course they did, they knew he was on Grindr they knew and turned a blind eye – you could tell a mile off that he was emotionally and sexually immature – that’s how they like them – my gut tells me some at Oscott knew he was a time bomb waiting to explode.

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LOL I see he works for an agency and that approach would help in ministry as well.
Happy memories of hitch hiking: those lorry drivers get very bored and randy on their own 😆

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The issue at the heart of everything that is being talked about on this blog is this: Do these priests, bishops, seminarians live and act in reality as they tell us they do, and in accordance with what they publicly have promised ? In other words, honesty and integrity. I could not care what people do as consenting adults, as long as it lies within the law of the land. What I do care about is somebody telling me one thing, and then doing something else. Seminarians, deacons, priests and bishops tell us that they are celibate and chaste. They do so publicly before the God and the Church of the Faithful. My understanding of what they promise is that they do not have sexual, genital relations with others, and do enter in to relationships that have an exclusivity to them and elements of sexual, genital activity. Simple. That’s what they tell us they have promised. If they are not living like that, as they have promised, and as the Church requires them to live, and as they are telling us they live, then they are lying. Simple. If the Church at some stage wants to change its requirements for clerics – so that they can be married, so that they can be in relationships either straight or gay, so that they can engage is sexual, genital, emotional, exclusive relationships – then fine. I would have no problem with that. But, if they insist that clerics must be celibate and chaste, then it is not unreasonable of me to expect that they are celibate and chaste, and it is not unreasonable of this blog and + Pat to point it out when clerics do not live as they tell us that they should live. Simple.

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5.52
Not so simple at all.

The celibacy requirement didn’t simply happen overnight in the 12th century as church historians like Eamon Suffy make clear. So its reversal is not happening overnight but by degrees. That’s the context in which we find ourselves now.

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6.17 my biggest laugh of the year so far 😉

So you think for the next 300 years we’ll have a little bit less transinsubstantiation.

And 300 years after that we’ll get a shade less alter JP or Christus or whoever?

By 4042 there won’t be maniples – not even polyester ones. WHAT WILL THEY HAVE INSTEAD?

I think the present officials will change as much as they like. The only real question though is, how does God save?

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6.42 – Alvin
A little reflection should alert you to the minor matter that Christology is dogma (Transubstantiation is not.) and the celibacy requirement is a discipline (of the second Christian millennium). Pope Anastasius at the end of the fifth century was succeeded by his son. And Pope Hormisdas at the beginning of the sixth century was the sixth predecessor of his son Pope Silverius. In the ninth century the daughter and wife of Pope Hadrian II were murdered while he was in office. This was before the celibacy obligation of the twelfth century appeared.

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7.17 seriously though, can you illuminate further on your relatively surprising statement “Christology is dogma, transubstantiation is not”? I logically disproved transubstantiation because Jesus wouldn’t disrespect the “substance” of the Bread even as He, so much bigger, goes alongside it. This leaves us Real Presence: do you think that is what the doctrine at strongest should have been?
But I think Jesus and Paul intended the force to be lost from that once the international central authority gets too weak on meanings such as respect for conscience and subsidiarity. Sacraments have been made into politics.
In the first half of my life sacraments didn’t seem to come into actual belief, maybe that was just the fad then. We did have for a few years the well loved Traditional English Mass facing the people. By claiming simultaneously that Council had given us it and that Council had abolished it, the Vatican City State proved to go ahead parishioners not much older than me, that its only intent is politicking.
It was also quite acceptable to sit out, before the intense JP II claimed “eucharist” and intrusive sexual discussions were compulsory. This could be a brilliant discussion for 2022, what is Christology and what is salvation! A powerful and not very indirect critique!

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“It’s not easy for a … seminarian to refuse the sexual advances of a bishop or archbishop.”
Higher education institutions have access to a violence and harassment reporting platform “Speak Out”. If any seminarian is harassed in anyway, the Speak Out platform is there for them.

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Not the way the church works. Its legal system is inquisitorial, and an accuser would have to face intense scrutiny before action. Most seminarians or priests leave or keep stum. A priest touched me up to who I had been sent to spend six months on parish placement. It’s curious as before my ordination, he was a complete bastard to me but never expressed any sexual interest but a couple of years later made a drunken pass. I guess he thought once you were in the club, it was fair game.

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It’s not easy rejecting the sexual advances of a superior of a Cistercian monastery after he has had a bottle of Jameson. Religious know how to play the power games.

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Priests are now just modern day salesmen. A salesman can sell his wares without even really believing in their quality. What matters is the sale and the money which it brings in for the company. So too with priests. They sell Christianity whilst gathering finances from the sheep. Their managers (in their case, bishops) don’t give two hoots what they get up to so long as it doesn’t affect their ability to bring in revenue for the company

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That comparison is incredibly cruel, indeed verging on evil. I know many salesmen who pride themselves on their professionalism.

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7.53: Verging on evil??? Not the first time for evil to be displayed towards clerics!! I am getting you right? Yes?? Too much evil directed against clerics.

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7.53 the Catholic Church is an Organisation however the TRUTH is that it is a Business with Charatible status.
Diocesan Offices are full of Chief Operating Offiers with many Directors and a multuted of staff from PR, finance, administration, drivers, comms, admin and the list is endless with massive salaries.
One diocese has made half a million on votive candles 50 euros each and in Killaloe they are going to make a fortune on cremated remains and Shannon Crem not happy.

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Good evening Pat. Happy new year to you and your readers. Me and Roberta had a lovely Christmas and we hope you did also. Roberta got off early today as the bookies was only open for a wee while. We’re sitting watching a Christmas movie with battered sausages and chips and a wee bottle of red but wanted to wish you well and thank you for helping us to find each other xx

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7.53 the Catholic Church is an Organisation however the TRUTH is that it is a Business with Charatible status.
Diocesan Offices are full of Chief Operating Offiers with many Directors and a multuted of staff from PR, finance, administration, drivers, comms, admin and the list is endless with massive salaries.
One diocese has made half a million on votive candles 50 euros each and in Killaloe they are going to make a fortune on cremated remains and Shannon Crem not happy.

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Now that they have a shortfall in finances, down and Connor diocese are investigating the possibility of opening a crematorium in mill town cemetery so that they can boost their coffers from the grieving families of the dead. No one is safe from this crowd

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Happy New Year All! That’s a great question. Generations of Bishops have inherited a
model of church and human experience and development that does not work. I believe they have not worked this out for themselves nor how to manage the current situation. The root of Jesse is starting to sprout again and the tribal leaders are in confusion . Bring on the new Moses. We need to rediscover Jesus (who really never left)

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