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WHY ARE CATHOLIC BISHOPS AND PRIESTS NOT TEACHING THE TEACHING OF THE CATHOLICISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH?

VIDEO FROM ROBERT NUGENT

I include this video as Robert is asking similar questions. Robert has no association with me or The Oratory and our views would be very different on many things.

Many Catholic bishops and priests, including in Ireland, no longer publicly teach the core beliefs of Catholicism as expressed in the Catholic Catechism.

1. Do they not believe in the teachings of the Catechism?

2. Are they trying to be seen as “kool” by not expressing those teachings?

Personally, I am not committed to the Catechism, its teachings and style – and that is one of the big reasons I am where I – estranged from the Catholic hierarchy and priesthood.

But if you are a fully paid up member of the hierarchy and priesthood – and are making a living out of that position – surely you must teach the teachings?

And if you don’t, are you not just cynical and hypocritical?

Can you imagine a middle or upper line manager of the Shell oil company being tolerated if he promoted the oil and petrol of BP and not Shell.

He would be gone in seconds.

And yet Catholic bishops and priests regularly fail to privately and publicly uphold Catholic teachings and yet they are allowed to keep their jobs and take their pay and benefits.

Catholic bishops and priests are called upon to teach things like:

1. Sex outside marriage and outside of the context of being open to procreation are mortal sins.

2. Not going to Mass on Sundays and Holy Days is a mortal sin.

3. Abortion, or assisting in an abortion is a mortal sin and incurs automatic excommunication.

4. Homosexual acts are mortal sins.

5. Artificial contraception is a mortal sin.

6. Euthanasia or assisting in euthanasia are mortal sins.

7. A priest breaking his vow of chastity or breaking his promise of celibacy is committing a mortal sin.

When I first learned the Catechism the difference between mortal and venial sin was stressed. A venial sin caused your relationship with God to be undermined. A mortal sin broke off your relationship with God.

To die in mortal sin, without going to Confession, led you to Hell.

Are these “truths” I learned from the age of 4 no longer valid?

And if not why have we not been told they are no longer valid?

And if they are still valid why are our bishops and priests telling us so?

Why are they not preaching about them anymore?

Why, for instance do the Irish hierarchy and priesthood not wage a moral war against abortion and euthanasia?

Sure, it would make them highly unpopular. But Jesus was not popular for teaching His truths.

It would shrink the size of the Irish Catholic Church. So what? It’s supposed to be the small yeast in the big loaf.

Maybe Christ is calling on Irish bishops, priests and lay Catholics to be His “anawim”.

“Anawim is the plural form of an Old Testament Hebrew word which is variously translated as “poor”, “afflicted”, “humble”, or “meek”. It is the Anawim, “the lost and the forgotten ones”, to whom Jesus refers in his beautiful beatitudes on The Sermon on the Mount. “Blessed are the poor in spirit for theirs is the kingdom of Heaven”, and “Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth”. ( Mt5:3,5) What a revolutionary thought: God loves everyone!”

Why are Irish bishops and priests afraid to be hated because of Christ”?

198 replies on “WHY ARE CATHOLIC BISHOPS AND PRIESTS NOT TEACHING THE TEACHING OF THE CATHOLICISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH?”

I think perhaps the severity of sin needs to be reassessed, like a poor married couple using birth control, or sex assault victims avoiding Mass due to hostile clergy and laity for standing up to it, for Christian cultures subtle enablements of adultery that never gets denounced, for Church structures and disciplines that create problems which continually get repeated.. These catechisms have to face head on how to live them out in the concrete reality of the system that demands they be adopted. A system whose leaders can lie, bully and undermine what they demand.

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Sean Fagan didn’t have the courage of his convictions. Why didn’t he leave his sinecure, where he lived off the Church?

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@5:15pm +Pat was offered a pile of money and a parish or place in sunny California yet decided to strike out on his own. Fr Fagan seemed like one of those rebels who loved their comforts too much.

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Enda McDonagh, Ronan Drury, Gerard Watson and Paddy Hannon had a lifelong, congenial lifestyle in Maynooth courtesy of a Church and seminary they didn’t much like.

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3.49
That was more a reflection of the machinations of the CDF under Wojtyła and Ratzinger than anything else.

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5.15
It’s clear from your ignorant reaction that you have never read a sentence of Sean Fagan’s. If you were half the person he was you’d be sble to hold your head up.

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11.09am

Interesting now that you mentioned hostile clergy. Before the pandemic, there was none. After the pandemic I noticed few number of clergy got hostile, acting as bodyguards when people were entering the church. I couldn’t believe it what I was seeing inside one church – not all church (a religious order).

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Is it no the case, certainly it was my understanding, that Postgraduate Studies, Sabbaticals, and ‘breaks’ are designed to get certain individuals out of the heat at home for a while?

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Wanderer, a bit like Boris now said to be jetting off to the Ukraine “emergency.”
Maybe he’s bringing some of that famous ‘birthday cake.’

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The seven things you list are all part and parcel of this and unavoidably point to one conclusion: they don’t believe the faith they supposedly profess.

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As I have written previously Pat, a cleric in Northern Ireland, relatively young, is renowned for this type of behaviour. The Catholic Church know and turn a complete blind eye, willingly, to this. The Catholic Church have executives in every parish and a Chief Executive in the Bishop’s Palace. Sins don’t matter apparently today. Instead we are plyed with phrases like:
“Hate the sin, not the sinner” – conveniently letting individuals of the hook.
The cleric I know well, has been sexually active, in a homoesexual manner since ordination. He also uses Grindr to meet guys. Is this wrong? Not outside the Church.
The reason the Catholic Church don’t hammer home ‘mortal’ and ‘venial’ sin jargon anymore is because they’ve partially realised that although they are already hypocrits, tht would be a hypocritical step too far.
Jesus NEVER taught that:
– priests must be celibate
– couples must marry before having kids
– Purgatory existed
– couples mustn’t live together before marriage
– God was a God who hated anyone; God rather that he was one of infinite mercy.
But what I cannot fathom is the complete whitewash of traditional Catholic values. For this I will be demonised and called a dinosaur. I’ll take that. But I would rather my moral compass partially intact as I breathe my last.
I hope the owner of this blog will, in a totally acceptable and fair way, allow me over the coming time to share the hurt I have faced. No one listens. It is time to hold a mirror up to those who hurt, and not be cowed by threats.

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Jack, bring the proof rather than accusations and it it accurate they will be removed.
the current Papal Nuncio has made it very clear there is NO room in the Roman Catholic Church for active sexually clergy either gay or straight.
But sadly canon Law states there must be proof and people willing to stand by the proof or a Bishop has NO chance.
The Congregation of Clergy will NOT stand by sexual active clergy if the evidence is produced and not gossip or hearsay.
If you have evidence give it to Bishop Pat and he knows fine well where to send it.

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Purgatory is based on 2 Maccabees 12:46: ‘It is therefore a holy and wholesome thought to pray for the dead, that they may be loosed from sins.’ Marrying before children is a basic thing predating Christianity, same with cohabitation as something not done. Jesus never thought some things as they were basic things not questioned until modern times. Jesus referred to ‘eunuchs for the kingdom of God’ in Matthew 19:12 and virginity was prized from a very early time. Consecrated virgins was one of the most ancient things in the Church. Christianity rejected abortion at a very early stage (see McCulloch, A History of Christianity) and the lasciviousness of the Roman era where the phallus was a ubiquitous ornament. The priest follows the Apostles and disciples who had left their families to follow Jesus. Jesus did speak of punishment for sin, particularly those who ‘scandalise the young ones.’ Grindr priests probably don’t put much stock in rising above base urges. We should be better than them.

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Moral theology increasingly relies on psychology to ensure that grace builds on nature. Such an emphasis on mortal sin in the scenarios you list Pat run the risk of putting law before gospel. It no longer makes sense to have such an act-based understanding of sin, as if the acts themselves automatically killed a person’s relationship with God without taking into account considerations of motivation and intention, addiction etc. We are in a better place now.

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Anon 11.50. Excellent comment. But it will be difficult to get the RCC to think outside the absolutism of ‘black & white’ Thomistic theological concepts. That absolutism is more ‘comfortable’ for those viewing themselves as the arbiters of divinely dictated morality.
MMM

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11.50
I wonder is your position more reflective of the 1960s when you were a student of moral theology than of today.
Balanced discussion on the absoluteness of moral norms was a central part of First Divinity moral theology in my experience. So also was the concept of fundamental option which is put forward to offset the imbalance of the automatic annihilation of one’s relationship with God by a single deed or omission.

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11:37 You do realize that you’ve just displayed exactly why people are not Catholic any more. Such claptrap.

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12.23
A dismissal is not a refutation.

The application of an automatic system of mortal sin is not an expression of Catholic Chritianity. If the absence of such is the reason you put forward for people being no longer Catholic, they and we are the better for it.

Such a system was an instrument of fear and had very little to do with the Gospel.

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2:39 Yours might help you too. Jesus are you always as pompous as in your original comment?

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11.37am
Who taught you First Divinity moral? That angry alcoholic, Paddy Hannon, who hasn’t said Mass since the 70s?

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Pat, the Bishops and priests have proclaimed the teachings of the church for Catholics. Sadly, a vast swathe of Catholics reject much of the moral teachings proclaimed. They inform thier conscience in line with what they want, think and believe. We must respect conscience. It’s very disingenuous of you to accuse the hierarchy and priests of failure in proclaiming the moral teachings of the Church because when we preach the moral truths you are usually the first out of the trap to accuse us of being out of touch with society, of being arrogant. You condemn us all the time. Pat, be consistent. We haven’t a clue what you really believe. You create a theology of convenience when it suits you to simply appear to be in accord with modern society. Regrettably, many of us, including you, compromise the truths of our Catholic faith. Modernism and relativism have found their way into Catholic preaching. Look back to the repeal the 8th referendum: anyone who preached that abortion was morally wrong, a mortal sin or murder of the unborn, were accused of being uncaring and totally incompassionate. We live in a culture that no longer imbibes any particular religious ideals or moral teachings. You, of all people, should know this reality. We are proclaiming Christian beliefs and ideals in a hostile landscape. But we must still preach what our Church teaches. Without fear.

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12.01: A very balanced comment. Society has evolved in a myriad of ways. Religious iconography or teachings are not foremost in the minds of many. People think for themselves and we must respect individual conscience. We place before people the moral teachings of the church but we cannot make definitive, unkind judgments about those who choose otherwise. Jesus didn’t ask us to pound or chase after those who ignored him. Nor did he diminish anyone who failed the moral ideals of his time. He challenged. He named the wrong doing. I think it was Rahner who said – grace builds on nature! We find our way to God – if that be our choice – not in straight lines but more often in twisting, circuitous pathways. We merely put the ideals before people. They choose but we must not condemn. Yes, in season and out, we must preach what we have received, guard it, cherish it, proclaim it courageously but we must never attack, dismiss or judge anyone who struggles or who may choose their own understanding and wisdom. Can I define someone as non Catholic If they fail the entirety of the church’s commandments or moral teachings? I would quickly be on my own in the house of God!! Nuance is good when we are helping those who seek moral guidance. An indepth knowledge of human psychology is imperative in understanding the behaviour of people. I think Jesus worked out of this belief.

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1 in 10 Americans is an ex Catholic. If they were a separate church they would be the third biggest in the country.
Brazil is estimated to be minority Catholic for the first time this year and it’s Pentecostal churches they’re defecting to.
Just for the ones who say there’s never any good news on this blog. 😂
‘The principal reasons given by people who leave the church to become Protestant are that their “spiritual needs were not being met” in the Catholic church (71 percent) and they “found a religion they like more” (70 percent). Eighty-one percent of respondents say they joined their new church because they enjoy the religious service and style of worship of their new faith.
In other words, the Catholic church has failed to deliver what people consider fundamental products of religion: spiritual sustenance and a good worship service. And before conservatives blame the new liturgy, only 11 percent of those leaving complained that Catholicism had drifted too far from traditional practices such as the Latin Mass.
People are not becoming Protestants because they disagree with specific Catholic teachings; people are leaving because the church does not meet their spiritual needs and they find Protestant worship service better.’
Source: https://www.getreligion.org/getreligion/2022/1/17/wall-street-journal-catholics-are-losing-ground-rapidly-in-brazil-what-else-is-new

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The Novus Ordo is a poor version of a Protestant praise and Communion service. You might as well go the whole hog and go full proddy and have better preaching, better music and the “fellowship” that evangelicals emphasise.

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Ah thank you for admitting nobody except a few fundamentalist freaks is interested in the old mass.

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The Catechisms in relation to celibacy and homosexuality are outdated. No lay people even care anymore that Priests or Bishops have boyfriends or girlfriends. It seems to be a small number of clergy that are obsessed with this, and they seem to be the ones who are single.

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Kieran Conry lost his job for having girlfriends, several of them and often more than one at the same time. I suspect laypeople couldn’t give a stuff about it, except for the lack of transparency and the double standards It would have been his brother bishops – Nichols especially – who will have put in the knife and seen him off and out. Anything to protect themselves.

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Just one point – he didn’t lose his job in the sense of dismissal. He merely lost his public role and remains on the list of retired members of the hierarchy of England, financially supported by the gifts of the faithful. In fact if he had any work to do this could be called jobs for the boys.

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Which is the greater evil, missing Sunday mass, consensual sexual pleasure or ignoring sexual abuse of children? Shame on you Benedict.

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6.51am. Ask Frank that question in relation to McCarrick, Inzoli, Barros, Zanchetta and the rest. All of those are current, live cases about which something can be done, unlike cases from the 1970s. Why do you focus on Benedict and give a free pass to Frank? What’s that all about?
As pope, Benedict defrocked a record number of abuser priests. In the name of mercy, Frank has interfered with and stopped the penal process, for example where he overrode the CDF’s warning and restored Fr Inzoli (whom Benedict had dealt with), only for Inzoli to abuse again.

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1:49 Why do you focus on Frankie and give Benny a free pass? And if you say you don’t, I would suggest 6:51 doesn’t either.

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@6.51
You probably admire the unascecetic Cardinal Marx. The German study that mentioned Benedict, issued on 20 Jan, accused Cardinal of mishandling two abuse cases in the Archdiocese of Munich, with further cases emerging from Marx’s time as Bishop of Trier.
Investigators found that Cardinal Marx, who has led Munich archdiocese since 2007, failed to support victims and report the cases to the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith.
Marx, a close associate of Bergoglio, offered his resignation. Bergoglio declined it.
It might do you better to chase after Marx and Bergoglio.

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I meant “The German study that mentioned Benedict, issued on 20 Jan, accused Cardinal Marx of mishandling two abuse cases in the Archdiocese of Munich”

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Bunch of cowards eh. There gone has been the month of January and how many priests were holidaying with their boyfriends? Hypocrites

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7.44: Tell us the number and we might have a proper, truthful discussion but not on hearsay and easy speculation. TRUTH does matter not lies.

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Seeing that Pope Francis put his signature on the Document for Human Fraternity, which declares that all religions are willed by God, I think that we can confidently say that the Pope is not a Catholic. The Declaration was very publicly signed with maximum world wide media coverage. And, seeing that the Declaration is out on the Vatican website in twelve languages, any number of people in the Vatican probably agree with its sentiments to a greater or lesser extent. So why any of the clergy or laity should believe anything, let alone keep their pants zipped, is a true mystery.
https://www.vatican.va/content/francesco/en/travels/2019/outside/documents/papa-francesco_20190204_documento-fratellanza-umana.html

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7.52
Alternatively, and much more likely, it’s you who are resisting Pope Francis’ teaching who has the problem. Francis is a true Catholic Christian.

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Bela, can you point out where in the Catechism of the Council of Trent it says Catholics should go around screaming hoor at each other?

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11.45 am
Francis is not the oracle of God. If his teaching is wrong it should be resisted. Under previous popes, the libs called doing that: “loyal dissent”.

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The problem is that Catholic teaching is that the Catholic Church is the one true church. If other churches with very different teachings are also willed by God, does this not imply that God is indifferent to the truth?

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Well, no surprises here. The Boss, the Pope, doesn’t exactly teach these things unambiguously and unequivocally. He trims and tacks on most issues. They are taking their lead from him. Not that I am upset by that. The trouble with Roman Catholic official teaching on most things is that it has boxed itself in to a hardline, black and white, literal corner of teaching, interpretation and application on most issues, and so finds itself in difficulty with not having any wiggle room in order to apply what it believes to real life and people with compassion and love. That’s the problem with absolutist take on things. I prefer a more nuanced and subtle teaching, which allows for the particular circumstances of each case and person, and is dominated by love and compassion. If Francis and his clerical colleagues are doing that by being a little flexible on the Catechism, then I’m all for it. Give me that any day rather than some traddy nitwit who just quotes chapter and verse and regurgitates at every possible opportunity. By the way, talking about that kind of laughable character, where is Father Littletwit these days ?

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Tony Rice leaves The Redemptorists and is head honcho with The Humanist Society. His congregation of the most stories repeated included a joke about pea soup.

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Well Steamed Rice is much Better than that fruitcake in Limerick whose hanging around Dublin again

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Well maybe this exonerates Fr O’Neill for questioning men during the sacrament of confession when they tell him about them masturbating

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That’s disgusting, I highly doubt he is doing this based on Catechisms and instead is asking for his own pleasure

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A colleague of ours, is entertaining a younger man but seems to love telling us about ‘them’, it does not seem like real love but a showmance.

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Sure this has been widespread for years, clergy colleagues do not care as both are lovely men, it’s a shame if their falling out is true though.

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Gabriel Lyon’s was exactly like bloody Leo, all for the woman’s choice and he didn’t realise, realise what?! A baby is a human life! Where is their choice?

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They were at Leo’s feet like he was some Indian Prince, these scenes were totally revolting and yet Leo laughed at them all the way to the bedroom with his hubby while they were all left with their hands that night

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Leo was being shown round the college chapel like a tourist visiting some exotic museum, which in a real sense I suppose it is. At least it meant it was unlocked for an hour or two.

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Lyon’s refused me holy communion because I went dressed draped in rainbow flags and make up, while I did this on purpose he proved my point

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Privately many clergy don’t believe half of if not all of it.
I’ve met many a Catholic biblical scholar who insist they don’t believe in the miracles of Jesus or the Resurrection.
Senior clergy (so called) are out and proud that they don’t do ‘religion’ they are far to busy being money men, property men or acting like Ratner (the product is shit) behind everybody’s back – they are often rotund, gay and malicious but whilst not believing in the tenants of their faith they love the trappings of status and power.
As for the CCC are you having a larf – most clergy despise the CCC never read it and despise, I mean really loathe lay people who do, who they refer to privately as ‘screaming Catholics.’
The hypocrisy is dizzin

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Ratzinger edited the Catechism but clearly didn’t take note of the bit about lying and bearing false witness – he asked to be excused for lying that he wasn’t at a meeting (where he moved a clerical sexual predator didn’t inform the police and said cleric went into abuse again). He lied he was at the meeting and v likely chaired it.

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It was sad to read the unexpected death of Father Ger Fitzgerald’s Father Patrick as he would be concerned for his two boys.
The death notice referred to Ger without the Father part so it will be interesting to see if Ger returns to Ministry.
So RIP Patrick.

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3.08: My dog has the capacity for more empathy than you Buckkey. You ripped Ger apart with gleeful delight and scorn. You are a monster hypocrite and a very nasty person. You brought a great deal of hurt to Mr. Fitzgerald. Keep your faux crappy sympathy in the Oratory.

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3:08

I merely provided pastoral and practical care to a woman Ger had an affair with.

I hope your dog is nicer than his master / mistress

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By Post Author

5.36
I wonder if Fintan allowed him to say his Father’s Requiem or did Fintan even go.
Only ONE Priest on RIP.IE sent condolences to the Brothers.

Loads of people from Ennis have sent condolences to the Brothers however Tom Ryan has it in the newsletter so he will be saying masses for Ger’s late Father.

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I can see no reason that Ger could not have celebrated his father’s funeral Mass unless Ger did not want to.

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By Post Author

Sorry to hear about gers father, may he rest in peace and he’s mother…
now he knows what it’s like to lose both parents be grieving and turn to a priest for support, because everyone else around you is a cunt.
Men are cunts, especially priests, wish him well, on he’s journey!

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Youve never loved a dog if you think he’s predisposition was due to yours! You have never loved an animal, properly!

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Former ‘catholic’ Michael Coren has written an excellent article on the reality of belief, practice and teaching.

‘The teachings of the church, the catechism, are one thing but the beliefs of the more than a billion adherents are often something entirely different. That may be a result of simple unknowing – of which there is a rather large cloud – where people haven’t been formed in their faith and know little, beyond the rudimentary, of what they’re supposed to believe. Then there are those who do know but reject. Catholic churches are full of people who may embrace the core beliefs but think and act just like non-Catholics, particularly when it comes to issues such as contraception, same-sex marriage, sex outside of marriage, and even abortion. It’s this disconnect that leads to once overwhelmingly Catholic countries such as Ireland or Spain embracing liberal social ideas with what seems like breathtaking speed and openness. It wouldn’t be a surprise if everybody were more honest about the whole thing.’

https://thecritic.co.uk/the-paradox-at-the-heart-of-catholicism/

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6.27: Now Pat: you did more than provide “pastoral care” to the hurt woman. You allowed your blog be a forum for the most vicious, nasty, personalised and menacing comments against Fr. Ger. You got miles out of his predicament. You printed material that would push anyone to commit a fatal accident. You contributed to mentally tormenting him, crushing him and mocking him for weeks. You were not some kind aunty looking out for him. You were the wicked Bitch.

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7.58
That is not True as Pat, was trying his best for the VICTIM and that is FACT.
Ger still claims his Diocesan salary as he cannot make his mind up so it is the people that is helping Ger decide with their collections.
Ger like the rest of the sexual active “clergy” should resign rather than take the money of the Lay Faithful.
RIP Patrick and you are likely reunited with your wife.

As for your parting words wicked bitch there were only one nasty bitch and that is LIAR Ger Fitzgerald.

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If Maynooth was a proper seminary Get would have been declined orders due to his relax with lay students.

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Pat, seriously, you’re a priest and a bishop, yet you allow this kinda thing on your blog after a man has died and a family are grieving? Several weeks ago you said you had maintained a “pastor’s heart”… How is permitting the kind of invective of @8:51 indicative of a pastors heart… While I’m on the topic of @ 8:51, before you start throwing names like liar around, I’ll assume you have also levelled the same reprimand at yvonne drake who lied about this priest having an affair with that other tina woman.. was that actually acknowledged? and yeah, I know that he wasn’t exactly truthful at the start either before you start your huffing and puffing and carrying on. Idiot that he was. As for this real victim thing, ah please… I needed that laugh so I did. Keep ’em comin… it’s the way you tell them…

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You didn’t see what she suffered behind the scenes from he’s closest, nearest and dearest….

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I disagree, easy to say that when your on one side of the fence…
Sometimes you have to be wicked…

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Ger has had his faculties taken off him so I would be surprised if Fintan lifted them for one day as that has never happened before.
The family do not refer to Ger as Father in RIP.IE and that is surprising and shocking unless the undertaker made a mistake.

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10.38 he was never truthful to Yvonne drake either, fintan or he’s supporters until he was forced to deal with it. He has had many relationships over the years. Not a man of god, practice what you preach.

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Yvonne died the day she felt she had to fight, regardless, she lost her mind, life etc….
Loosing both parents I wouldn’t wish on anyone, it killed me and I was alot younger when Iost mine … and I had no support, well away from my family, it messed me up and the dissulliom of my family home etc… not the same faith he has/will endure….
You people have no idea….
A man that lies to many women he’s boss and he’s supporters, is not a good man of man of faith, we all make mistakes….
Who decides, who gets crucified for what and when and how… ..who decides…
Nobody is God, we are human!

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When I was 6 or 7 I blithely informed my Anglican grandmother that she was going to hell because she wasn’t a Roman Catholic. I had been taught this in primary school, either by a teacher or the PP.

This wasn’t in the 1950s, it was in Salford Diocese in the 1980s!

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Once upon a time Christian Unity week was a plastic pontification to tick a box. There still is fear. Sure we love the game but have lost the ball

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The comment at 11:37 illustrates perfectly what is wrong with formation: it produces priests who are incapable of communicating and just like to make out they’re special and know best. I’m a layman and qualified as an accountant and I don’t understand the comment at all. And this is in a public forum.

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If they enforced the catechism it would be the final nail in the coffin of the RCC in Ireland and would motivate more parents to ask for non-denominational education.

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Many so-called Catholics, include some of those commenting here today, believe in and practice situation ethics.

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sad to see the ravings of a crazed Kitty Kirby apologist featured today in a positive light. this blog can do better than provide clicks for traddie propaganda.

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Oh and our Scottish cousins across the water are a blast too! Will there be more +Pat?

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Nearly all Irish bishops did exactly nothing during the very strange abortion referendum whose result which was at variance from the opinion polls was likely connected to the aggressive effort to bring home anyone likely to vote for abortion, and if anyone thinks Irish elections are squeaky clean, I’ve a bridge to sell them. Irish American politicians were notorious vote riggers. Richard Nixon quite possibly had the 1961 election stolen from him when ballot boxes went for a swim in Chicago and other places. The interference of Big Tech is a matter of record. Anyhow if someone doesn’t think ripping a baby apart is bad, Christianity is not for them.
A lot of Irish bishops seem to follow a policy of deferring to state and opinion formers in oligarch news outlets. Sunday Mass is still a social thing in a fair few rural parts, but their policy of vagueness just drives people away. The tiny SSPX had more new Irish vocations last year, or the same (3 I think) and if you add ICKSP and others, you could double that number. I mention this particularly to show how the Irish bishops are utter failures, as TLM won’t be for all. Anyhow this vague generalism and fudging might have worked ten years ago, perhaps in the Bertie Ahern era. These bishops seem to lack the eloquence and discernment to preach God’s love, and love of neighbour to give the many wounded by scandal a sense of God’s love for us. Talented priests tend to turn down become bishops as they then need to deal in half truths, to lie and be lied to.
Instead of expressing a view on matters they might have a difficulty with, they just say nothing. Probably there is a lack of confidence which German bishops do not lack given their sheer wealth. Ireland is still has so many active Catholics despite the gross failure of its bishops. It is something to build on, but I’ve no confidence Irish bishops will do anything right.
Apologies for the overlong comment +Pat.

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Anon at. 4.36pm
I noticed a lot of Traddie people such as voris, Marshall advocated for a return to trent catechism. I had a practically zero Catholic education, just bits and bits of it as I go along. I remembered older generation of elderly deaf people obsession with catechism which I didn’t understand it. They were pre Vat2 people. They didn’t moan re change from old rite to new rite.
***
Anyway re sins, there was a priest from India who said just follow ten commandments as that would be enough. Ten commandments didn’t mention sex or of same sex. What I had noticed in the bible that jesus didn’t mention sex cos he just said ‘sin no more’ as that was end of the matter. He didn’t attack her except for her behaviour in sinning. It’s psychology, I think although I’m no expert in this cos practically zero Catholic education.
Also I noticed there was a strong element in thomism in Traddie blogs as they mentioned it( as if it was the supreme importance). To me, thomism sounded like black and white 🤷‍♂️😳

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Anon at 5.42pm
Very good news, way too long overdue. It will become law end of this year or the next.
Interesting point I heard from this was English wasn’t listed as an official language in uk even Wales too. That was down to their archaic and quaint language at that time.
A MP whose parents were deaf (both) was selected as 1 of the 20 MP randomly selected as they could propose a legalisation of their own depending if it passed or failed. So she knew what her late deaf parents wanted – a BSL act. It took many months of campaigning as I was told. Their focus of attention was on tory MP’s which they got it. Then in turn, they put the pressure on minister for disability. The rest was history.
I could put up a link if you want to re chronological profile.

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Anon at 5.42pm
Here is the link :
https://mobile.twitter.com/leicesterdeaf/status/1485698840917331970?cxt=HHwWhMCyga3OoZ4pAAAA
It has no captions, however you can turn it on via settings and voice as well.
More information can be found on his twitter👇, some are informative and not.
https://mobile.twitter.com/DavidBuxtondc
Hes BSL lead chair on bsl act.
Other videos can be found in his twitter with subtitles and voice over as well. Other twitters not so good as him cos you can find out more about bsl act via comments, videos with subtitles or voice overs.
One thing that struck me re videos that there was no church support given its strong Anglican roots. Nor did Catholic bishops as well. It was the police and other disabilities organisations that were supporting them.
Sign of the times isn’t? 😉😜

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DG, not sure if you’ve ever seen the coronavirus restrictions press conferences in Stormont, where they have two people doing sign language, one doing BSL and the other ISL. It’s funny how in NI we are divided in so many ways.

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I know of an uncle who just stopped going to Mass when the traditional Mass was replaced, and there were a few like that. He just didn’t like it. Yet most didn’t dissent. One deaf man (95% deaf), a widower, a Legionary, has a love of Garabandal and various unapproved devotions like some prayer that clears purgatory 1000 at a time. His mother sent him to a standard school as she thought a school for deaf people like St Josephs’ on Navan Rd would institutionalise him. He’s fearless.

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anon at 9.24pm Symmahus
what kind of a mother who wanted her son to be institutionalized cos its has a potemtial consequences pf mental illness or mental health. Its institutionalised fairly alright some of it were too extreme,others werent so bad.
Hows he fearless:)
Various CBS superiors including an abuser himself have called it (St Josephs) as a ‘nuthouse’ or an asylum but he went to another CBS school in salthill where he abused again to a famous artist by the name of Kevin Sharkey. That CBS guy who abused him, was a nasty piece of work , a prick et al as he was called various names by ex deaf school boys.
History in st josephs re all form of abuses is quite shocking in other people eyes cos they never experienced it themselves. I remember giving a testimony to a bunch of lawyers and counsels without sign language interpretation. They were all shell shocked …thats the price of being institutionalized. On other hand it made us toughen us up and rebel against them re their dastardly deeds. One thing was clear to me after all these things had happened , dont trust RCC ever especially higher ups and higher you go up the more corrupted you might be.

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I know lots of people who quietly stopped going to Mass when the changes came in. They weren’t replaced by new people attracted to the New Mass.

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@9:49pm Deaf Guy he’s fearless in the sense he has no fear of Legion street contact or door to door work, provided someone can help him where lip reading fails him, or had no fear in general. St Joseph’s school certainly sounds like it was a harsh place with some wicked, sadistic brothers. He doesn’t use sign language, just lip reads and responds verbally. I suppose parents of deaf children might have seen St Josephs’ as the default choice, but he’s grateful he didn’t go there. His mother wanted him to be able to make his own way in the world and not be institutionalised by a specialised deaf school.

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Priests should be called out for what they are, this is the beauty of Pats blog. It offers a voice. What about Brit loving, money loving McBrearty and the rest of the ‘firm’ in NI. He makes NO secret for his love for money and would stoop as low as accepting a pensioners will inheritance. He should have done the CHRISTIAN thing and handed that over to the family.

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anon at 8.36pm
Yes i have seen it just one or two coronavirus restrictions press conference re Stormont.The problem with NI was that the majority of people who went to Cabra schools instead of NI school in Jordanstown. Hence at that time the majority of it were ISL users,so they had to cater for that cohort group if you get me. I knew one of ISL interpreters there cos her parents were deaf (CODA-Child Of Deaf Adults). It was hilarious to watch two interpreters in different sign languages presenting themselves. That was down to incompetence (both) govt policy on deaf education as they have shot themselves in their foot.
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Not now anymore as numbers of ISL users will be less and less as time goes on. Thats because majority of deaf students or boys and girls will go to mainstream schools nearer their homes due to change in UK govt policy in deaf education.
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Few of my ex classmates who came from the North were based in Armagh,Tyrone and Belfast but they had to go to Cabra because of quality of education at that time in comparison to Jordonstown school. That’s not happening any more as it’s reversing itself (the trend) towards or leaning to more BSL users as time goes on. Plus issue of BREXIT will make it more so indeed.

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Very interesting, thank you. Were the schools denominational? Also, do you know how different ISL and BEL are from each other? Would someone proficient in one be able to understand a lot of the other one?

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Nobody preaches about this anymore as the church is transforming without actively admitting it knowing it…it’s only hard core right wing Catholics that believe and preach these teachings

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Anon at 10.03pm

St Joseph’s and St Mary’s (both cabra) were primarily Catholic schools with Catholic ethos so forth. Same can be said for 3rd deaf school in Still organ. However St Joseph’s gradually started to include Mormon, Anglican, a jew (all deaf) around late 70s I think but omitted them from religious classes or masses or confessions et al. All were day pupils except for 2 Anglicans.
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Jordanstown were denominational inclusive mixture of all types but standard was v poor based from my ex classmates who went there in the 1st place.

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ISL and BSL are completely two different sign language in its own right and grammar structure. When I sign as I think visually as I can overlap between ISL and BSL. It’s easier to spot it cos where BSL use one hand approach in terms of spell or names but ISL use both hands approach. ISL is much closer to French or American sign language cos it derived from the French in the 1st place. ASL (American sign language) roots came from French as well.
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I found BSL more expressive than ISL cos more free flowing and visually. ISL isn’t free-flowing cos of extensive use of English which kind of dumbed it down a bit. But when I sign to deaf friend of mine, it’s usually ISL without using English with plenty of short cuts and much faster as well.
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Once you become more proficient in one sign language, it’s possible to read another sign language cos it’s easier, the more u use the more u understand the visual shape, visual structure and space. I have met many deaf people all over the world and express it in gestures, space and vision as well cos I have to drop my sign language in order for them to understand me. There is no point using ISL to a deaf foreigner in their home land. So the key is to drop your sign language(same for them too) and adopt the natural gesture, vision and space as it works beautifully.

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Let’s not all act foolish, we all know which clergy have boyfriends or girlfriends and we could all throw a speculation as to who they are, remember anything on this blog is speculation and not fact so nobody need not worry

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What a bunch of morons, all shagging around ya but think you can all hold the upper voice when it comes to abortion and womens right. I would take me heel of to the lot of ya

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Remember in early church fathers, there was no catechism, no organised church, no Canon law, no 7 sacraments at that time, Latin Mass wasn’t mentioned or any massin any language, no bishops nor cardinals nor Popes. All they did was to preach and heal people. That was the impression that I got from reading it.
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At end of the day, who were these church fathers that were referred to🤷‍♂️.

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Even the Anglican Diarmaid MacCulloch spoke in his book of how organised the Church in Rome became at an early stage with a well organised system of distributing aid and caring for the poor without precondition, a policy which aided a demographic increase in Christians. St Lawrence told the persecutors the poor were the treasure of the Church. The didache, vague though it is, does make clear there was a definite liturgy by the first century. It is theorised that as the first Christians were Jewish men who remembered the Temple, a complex order of Church offices from doorkeeper to presbyter arose early, along with a sense of sanctuary, manifested as the jubé screen as soon as churches could be built and emerge from the fine rooms of richer Christians, which was usual at an early time.

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Leadership comes from the top and should filter down, when you have Amy Martin condoning and making excuses for legalising abortion, Treanor in Lisbreen with the twink army of Fr Fox and the Brazilians then what example is this?

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Our priest only works part time and it’s his dates and times for weddings, funerals, baptisms etc or you can fork off basically

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If a priest can afford a Maserati, his own residence and Elvis memorabilia to dress up and perform personally in then he’s in the wrong job, tax man should look into Fr B (my lost wife and kids)

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The country mourned the tragic loss of life after a shocking murder in recent weeks. The country has voted for the murder of unborn babies in recent years. The country rejoices when two teenagers lost at sea are rescued.
Fair play to RN for speaking out. ++Eamon is weak on this issue. Those who invited and feted Leo are absolute disgrace. They should all resign.
No pax.

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Maynooth had President Higgins to their carol concert the night before he signed the Abortion Act into law. Fanny did his notorious heretical sermon and waxed tragic about plastic bags in the oceans, but said nothing about the forthcoming loss of human life through abortion.

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Plastic saved the evening then….he could have gone with an Ode to the Hevea Brasiliensis…….If RCC bishops could get pregnant, abortion would be a sacrament. Mullaney under the usual supervision would find an oily canonical solution…..for their Ordinarinesses.

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Seamus vii at 5.42pm

RN isn’t that bad as they make it to be. Given the face he’s ex seminarian which isn’t surprising re raising church matters that appeals to his heart dearly.

He was right about speaking ill of the dead. Cos I was one of them before before I clipped my keyboard re this. Its a very uncharitable and un Christian thing to do.

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I agree DG. RN is not bad like some try to make him out to be. RN is fair with people. People can agree with him or not. He is being fair however.
RN did a video on the Cistercians matter after the two resignations. Jesus overturning tables in the temple could be called a dynamite action but not all actions were dynamite.

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Gay sex is a depraved act and of you all think about it is sheer disgusting, you can be gay but you don’t have to do that to yourselves

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Where is Bengal Spice so we can all witness these so called dates between lay and gay? Is it owned by the Tea-frock Leo?

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Pat, apart from a few good, intelligent and worthy comments, why do you allow a profusion of inane, silly and totally irrelevant one-liners that say nothing, are often imbecilic and poorly written. We haven’t a clue who they are responding to or what they’re attempting to say. You should censor such nonsense and only print cogently written comments and when you know who they are “suppose” to be responding to. Today is full of silly one-liners and badly expressed irrelevancies.

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I agree. The blog is greatly degraded by the matters you refer to. So much of it is meaningless irrelevancy and becoming even more boring over the past six months or so.
MMM

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I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: MMM should set up his own blog. See how the market responds. I don’t think his hits would break any audience records.

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I hear Monty of Westminster fame is pushing the envelope in his new parish in Middlesex ! Pissing off some of the parishioners. Mind you, some parishioners deserve to be pissed off. The fellow before him, careerist (forget his name) who has gone to Westminster Cathedral to be Number Two to the Polish fella, was a steady hand, very professional and careful. He didn’t make a slip. Boring, though. I think Monty has started as he intends to go on. Watch this space. Mind you, wouldn’t it be such ennui if all clergy were that careful, cautious, careerist professional types ? I rather like a wild card like Monty. Go, Monty ! Just keep it sufficiently interesting and unpredictable, keep us on our toes, but don’t fuck it up, please ! I’m on your side, Monty. If you do, Elsie will be breathing all over you. And you certainly don’t want that, do you ?!

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I have just watched this video on Youtube and I think it’s really awesome — ‘Focus your mind’. Just thought I’d share it as I found it somewhat inspirational.
There are better ones, but this gives off a kind of basic baseline Inspirational feeling for beginners..
.
https://youtu.be/J-zgMmHmcwI

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Pat, I’ve just watched Robert Nugent’s video: St. Pat Buckley? : Reflection. He poses very relevant questions for you. He is saying what many of us think and have expressed. Watch it and – for once: LISTEN CAREFULLY. God very often uses other people to tell us TRUTHS. So, GO AND LISTEN.

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I published this video on my blog. I am totally open to all criticism.

However I cannot become the Pat Buckley you and Robert want me to be.

I have to be the PB I believe God wants me to be.

Basically, you all want rid of me 😀

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Oh no!! I absolutely don’t want rid of you! You are a child of God. Don’t ever think I ever want any harm to come to you. That would make me the worst hypocrite. I addressed my concerns of my channel. I will always pray for you. (That may make some peoples stomachs turn) but I will always pray you encounter the amazing Christ that heals all souls. Never despair.

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7.56: But Pat, sometimes God uses other people to help us discern the person he wants us to be. We all need help from others. Strangely, don’t you spend much of your ministry telling others what they should/shouldn’t be and what God expects of them? Strange that you present all clerics who fail your expectations as infidels? Do you not see the contradictions.

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8.25: Pat, this is a very ungraced, snooty response to Robert. Why? Because you dislike his Christ like and gentle approach to all people? You ought to affirm and accept into your life the many who encourage you to find Christ in fullness. Don’t dismiss everyone. You inspire people sometimes but allow yourself to be touched by the grace filled people of your blog – which are few. But I contend that Robert is one such person.

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9.13 pm
Using god as an answer to justify your point…. Tut…. Tut…. Tut…
That’s like a child using the tooth fairy to get more more money under their pillow…

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@8.51 So sad to read about the sudden death of Fr. Ger Fitzgerald’s father Patrick. May his gentle soul rest in peace. Ger adored his dad so he will be truly bereft. Ger needs a lot of time to grieve for his dad so please leave him alone. There are two sides to every story but for now let Fr. Ger have time to himself.

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All this talk about catechisms reminds me of Reggie’s praise for the Latinity of the Trentish Catechism. He often told us that its language was exquisite. The same for the Latin of Code of Canon Law for the Eastern church. As to the Latin of the Code of the Western church, er, the word stercus would gently express his thoughts thereon.

The blizzard outside here in New England looks like it’s diminishing, and I should shovel the walks.

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Pat, who was Fr Rice connected to when he was in the Reds in belfast; doesn’t take a genius to work out as most were/are all old.

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You TRIED… its not your fault.
Its nobodies fault, except my own.
Nobody could save, you will be remembered despite my best antics x

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I’m not a cunt, nobody excites anything in this bittsr misery than me, sorry to hear about fr gers father….. The crater!

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