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ST PATRICKS SEMINARY THURLES – HELL ON EARTH – CMOC REPORT MUST BE PUBLISHED.

FORMER THURLES SEMINARIAN SPEAKS:

Hello Bishop Buckley,

In either late 1995 or early 1996 there was a visitation of St Patrick’s College by Bishop Cormac Murphy O’Connor of Arundel and Brighton, Monsignor Michael Jackson

and Fr Richard McCullen, a Vincentian.

It was rumoured afterwards that the report that came back on the college had very little positive in it.

I think former students would be very interested to see that report published in full and Archbishop Reilly should make its contents public.

I would also like those who were in authority in the college in the early 1990s to comment on the fact that the year before Michael died, there was a similar attempt by another student who thank God was saved. That student left two letters, one for his family and another for Fr Lee the president and both those letters vanished.

LEE

It was believed that this was all hushed up at the time because Lee was tipped to become a bishop and the college didn’t want any scandal to upset those chances. What has Bishop Lee and Fr O’Dwyer to say about all of this?

O’DWYER

In my time in Thurles, the priests on the teaching staff were known as “the Gods”. That says it all.

God bless your ministry Bishop Buckley!

yours sincerely

PS After the visitation team had left there was a terrible atmosphere in the college and a number of students who had spoken out at a meeting of the students and the visitors “left” the college at the end of the year. One student told me that he was told by Fr O’Dwyer that he was welcome to return the following year but that his situation would have to be “reviewed” regularly. He chose to leave instead and fair play to him because he was always a person who spoke his mind and was honest. Soon after the visitors left Fr Christy O’Dwyer addressed all the students one evening looking very rattled. He more or less told us that if we didn’t like the “Thurles way” of doing things then we probably wouldn’t be happy as priests in the Church!!

FROM FORMER CLERIC

“There was a student-staff council that broke down and nobody wanted to be a part of. There was a desperate attempt to get this council up and running again. It might have been before the visitation. There was a problem and an attempt to get it going. Relations had broke down badly between students and the staff, or as they were called “The Gods” The bought in some religious, A Sister, asking her to mediate and to get the council going.

So it was evident that things were pretty bad in Thurles in the 90s and this lends to the fact of the Suicide Attempt and the Suicide.

It is negligence that the abuse was allowed to continue for so many years”.

MESSAGE FROM ANOTHER FORMER SEMINARIAN

EMAILS REQUESTING REPORT:

O’REILLY

11 th FEBRUARY – FEAST OF OUR LADY OF LOURDES

PLEASE PRAY THE MEMORARE WITH US EVERYDAY FOR THE PURIFICATION OF THE CHURCH AND PRIESTHOOD.

COMMENTS

Because of the seriousness of this topic I intend to moderate comments strictly today.

Please keep to the topic or the general topics a Church / priestly abuse and corruption

227 replies on “ST PATRICKS SEMINARY THURLES – HELL ON EARTH – CMOC REPORT MUST BE PUBLISHED.”

There was a load of episcopal visitations of seminaries in the 1990s. Was it a Vatican requirement? Bishop Logan of Dunkeld visited Oscott.

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Pastors Dabo Vobis also asked for a preparatory period before men entered a major seminary. Hence places like the “propaedeutic” seminary at Valladolid in Spain, run under the authority of the bishops of England and Wales.

These bishops’ Charter of Priestly Formation, issued early in 2015, had two main justifications for the one year course at Valladolid. First, seminarians often had no proper prayer life or sense of the spiritual. Secondly, they were often ignorant of the basics of the Faith, or lacked confidence in explaining or defending them.

As my foul mouthed colleague would have said: “What the **** are these jokeroing i

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Even if you did, you can be sure those reports contain nothing incriminating and will be blasé wishy washy criticism at best if any. Such audits are boxing ticking exercises and jolly foreign trips to pretend Rome is “keeping and eye on things” when in fact they are clearly not bothering their hole to do any such thing.

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@2.42pm, yes, they will be like school inspection reports, where it is mostly about describing the various ways the school is brilliant, with a few very mild criticisms of areas requiring improvement. As yousay, these so-called visitations are Roman junkets. The staff wine and dine the visitors and treat them like royalty, the sems are on best behaviour and the sems say nothing, either because there is nothing to report or because they fear reprisals.

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There’s no point in announcing a public visitation (and therefore getting the credit for having an inspection process) but then keeping the findings secret. Schools and care homes and even prisons have their inspection reports published. Why not seminaries? If they are being run well, an inspection would celebrate that and given reassurance to sending bishops, donors and students.

Conversely, if adverse findings are published, donors, parents and intending students would know what they were getting into, and it would also help seminaries to improve.

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4:11, You’re assuming reports will report anything untoward and are accurate of reality. In the real world of the rat race, such reports very rarely if ever are. But yes getting access to a report is better than none, as you can read between the lines . . . and what they leave out or gloss over, or leave vague, is often far more telling than what they write.

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Pat, the Rosary is prayed every day in our Church for all kinds of intentions, including for renewal of priesthood and church. I think some seminaries had strange atmospheres in the 70’s/80’s/90’s. I do not recall in 7 years in seminary in the 70’s any of this sinister behaviour and abuse. Some professors were a little aloof and distant but overall relationships were generally good. What, I wonder went wrong in some seminaries? What period of time are you and Robert referring to and is it just Thurles seminary for the moment? However unpalatable, truth is imperative so that anyone who is suffering finds explanation and justice. I think we need more information to make a fuller assessment. By the way Pat, the excerpts presented are very circumspect and moderate but necessary. Robert gave the impression today that by tomorrow the world, Ireland would be thunderstruck by revelations, an apocalyptic scenario like when Pat Rabbitte spoke about the foundations of the state being rocked once up in a time! Robert uses the imagery of threats of wars, revolutions, protests, marches…I too fight for and desire and renewal and I exact that wish in the Parish along with parishioners. I hope and pray that the issue being discussed will be carefully monitored because any opinions expressed wrongly, accusatory or in a denigratory manner may ruin a proper garda investigation. Beannachtai De libh.

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If Ireland isn’t thunderstruck by all the information written about thurles, then I don’t know what to say. These men went into a seminary in good faith to become Priests. To be other Christ’s in the world. There needs to be an acknowledgment and closure. We need report.
MICHAEL DEEGAN He would have only been 20 / 21 years old and he was found hanging behind a curtain in one of the seminaries lecture halls by a visitor to the seminary.
During his time in the seminary he was the victim of extreme homosexual stalking and harassment. People were putting sexually explicit notes under his room door and were leaving homosexual pornography on his bed.

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Shhhh – can you hear that -it’s the sound of Ireland thunderstruck by the report?? on Thurles
Robert, sweetheart , you need to cut down on the hyperbole in your writing and your videos. People will end up calling you a Drama Queen.
You’re welcome x

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The only thing ever “thunderstruck” in Ireland, or ever will be, is AC/DC. It’s a cesspit.

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‘if we didn’t like the “Thurles way” of doing things then we probably wouldn’t be happy as priests in the Church’
This is literally true and the Thurles way is actually universal.

Pat did you say your seminary was Thurles?

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Waterford is actually a great base. I was never a massive fan of the town itself but as a base for surrounding areas it’s second to none. Very popular with American tourists also.

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Pat 10:55, you can hardly blame him given the antics and disregard for anything Christian that this blog says were commonplace.

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I was a student here in Thurles. It was awful. Michael Ryan – a desperate and hopeless Dean, left for a woman. Martin Hayes – Bishop now… shocking, not able to communicate with people, should be playing hurling rather than saying Mass. Bill Lee… a company man. Christy O’Dwyer, now that’s a story… twisted, distasteful and shamefully dishonest. Liam Holmes… a balance, would you like me to continue? Poor Michael was discovered by William, a second year student and his family. The stories of locking up students at 4.45pm every day is scary… its amazing we survived… well some of us…. I’d love to speak more… This place was a borstal not a seminary.

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You need to come forward with us to the Gardai in thurles and make a confidential statement. Victims often don’t know the are victims. It is unacceptable the abuse you suffered or the abuse you saw committed on others. If the church does not acknowledge and accept these problems, then we run the risk of allowing them to happen again. Please come to the Gardai so we have a record of this.

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Robert, serious question, you ask 11:44 to come to the Gardai to make a statement, however 11:44 doesn’t mention personal knowledge of anything which could be a crime. He mentions stories of locking people up (which could be a crime) as being terrible but not being locked up or witnessing it happening.
Have I missed something here?

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@ 10:55am
Don’t you think that’s what it should be like. If the Dean was watching everyone and everything then there would be none of the shenanigans we hear about in Seminary’s almost daily on this blog.

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1:36 – Some obviously thought their time seminary should have been a homo knocking shop, and were not happy with anyone who did not play ball with this idea.

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In spite of the strictness there was a lot of homosexuality in Clonliffe. Very little in Waterford.

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1.36. That was the idea set out by Trent, to deal with bad behaviour by clerics. The Trent model was thrown out the window after Vatican II, with a collapse in discipline in seminaries everywhere, with consequences to this day.

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Martin Hayes is monosyllabic, gauche and taciturn to the point of rudeness. A real bog man. He should never have been on the staff of a seminary.

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And so Pat, can people say why Hayes has disappeared … The official story of “on medical advice” sounds peculiar especially after priests were told not to offer public prayers for his health?

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10.55: Pat, I was in Clonliffe after your time. I found it to be a good experience overall. Was glad to finish studies after 7 years but basically it was a positive experience. Staff were reasonable, some a little aloof, kept their distance. Students were carefully scrutinised with no mixing between junior and senior house.There was lots of freedom given to us: the key words were – personal responsibility. It was challenging at times and the different social backgrounds were often a way of identifying your potential. Where you came from posed difficulties but nothing too unbearable. One great deficit was the poor spiritual, human and psychological development courses, awareness and related issues. While psychology and philosophy lectures were quite elucidating, you had to navigate the deper realities and implications yourself. Being in a totally male environment with various restrictions, disciplines and expectations contributed at times to a very intense and unhealthy atmosphere. But, the experience primarily was good. That’s why I am appalled at stories about other seminaries from the same era. I hooe Robert and you can give a mire definite report abiut today’s issue. As for the Memorare Prayer – a beautiful prayer along with the Magnificat and Benedictus from the Divine Office. You should dedicate part of one day a week to people’s favourite prayer(s).

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I am hoping that the topic won’t be so severely moderated that it will not permit the publishing of gentle criticism.
I am a bit puzzled but I know you want to keep things on point and you ask us not to deviate from the topic – so I’ll just make a few specific points related to the topic- assuming you will permit this to be printed. I wish I had the forensic writing skills of Robert Hourigan but bear with me……
Is this the devastating report that you and Robert Nugent were compiling? The one in which one of his supporters claims that Robert had unearthed more information in 5 hours than you had in 5 years?
A report which begins “there was a visitation late ’95 or early ’96” hardly inspires confidence – surely the people providing information could be a bit more specific or am I just finding fault?
It was RUMOURED the report, (assuming it happened at all), didn’t paint the college in a positive light. You see, given that today’s blog was heralded as a ‘report’ on the harassment and bullying in Thurles – it’s not unreasonable to expect something more substantial than a RUMOUR about a report that happened in a not very specific time period.
The former seminarian states that there was another suicide attempt by a student and this student left two suicide notes. That is extremely concerning but is that an established fact – can that former seminarian stand over and swear to that statement?
The statement from the former cleric gives no consequential information at all.
Quoting from the statement -“So it was evident that things were pretty bad in Thurles in the 90s and this lends to the fact of the Suicide Attempt and the Suicide.”
Really? So there was a breakdown in the council between staff and students and things were PRETTY BAD. are we expected to take that comment seriously? Can this former cleric provide more substantial information – times, dates, frequency of abuse i.e can he give weight to the statement things were pretty bad?
I am not denying that abuses occurred. I firmly believe they did. I am not denying that there isn’t something to be investigated but I was expecting, and I dare say your readers were expecting something a bit more substantive.

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12.15am: I too have similar concerns to you. While all abuse and its on-going consequences for many must be discussed only for the betterment snd healing of those aggrieved, thete isn’t substsntial content in this blog today. I ask too if claims made can be validated as actually having occured or are conclusions being drawn with very little evidence? Where would any information to date stand in a civil case? Back in the 70’s and 89’s seminaries were full of various disciplines of behaviour and expectations and often you were made to feel that you weren’t suitable. Yes, there was a form of bullying when you were ridiculed or picked on in any way by bullying students or lecturers. It wasn’t my experience but I know it happened. I trust that Pat and Robert can provide more substantive information so that we get a fuller picture. TRUTH must be sacred in this endeavour and not speculation or innuendo. TRUTH is essential at all levels. If both of you have sufficient information for a garda investigation, will you procede with approaching civil authorities and request such an investigation? Otherwise lots of misinformation nay give rise to greater pain and hurt to survivors.

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2.35: Pat says there was a lot of homosexuality in Clonliffe in his short time. Was he not part of that culture – a closet gay. Who is he to judge unfairly? There are all kinds of stories about such activity in his time.

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I was not part of it. At the time I regarded impure thoughts as big sins.

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CMOC carried out a visitation of Milltown Institute in the mid 1990’s. Though not a seminary MI was a house of study for many seminarians and religious. Thurles wasn’t a one off.

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Milltown was also a hotbed of heresy. Fortunately, it renewed itself out of existence (as did the similarly heterodox All Shallows).

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Like the Armadillo bird. Chased it’s tail until it disappeared up its own orafice.

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Dear Bishop Pat,
Do you think the present chatter and happenings around certain northern dioceses around priestly behaviour is worthy of consideration. I see the Catholic Church in NI appearing to take one route, and Christianity take another.
It is my view that the quote “We are made in the image and likeness of God” is being abused by clergy; they are perhaps taking another meaning: “God is made in the image and likeness of us”, or “God is made to our liking”. I think the time is near to have a very open debate about what is held in Catholic Catechisms and what is happening on the ground. Surely Bishop Pat you would agree that bringing everything into the open would be Christian, balanced and the right thing to do?

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@12.29am There is no N Ireland Catholic Church it’s an all island Irish Church that does not recognise partition.

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They do recognise partition. The NI bishops form a group when they meet Stormont and HM Government (Tim Bartlett looks after the arrangements) and they operate the CCMS, which is exclusively for NI schools.

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4.06: Pat, your new avatars makes you look like Bart Simpson….not necessarily a good choice. Lisa mught have been a better choice…she’s clever!

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You won’t get anywhere with them, they all have blood on their hands one way or the other – they just mind themselves, & they hang each other out to dry at the drop of a hat – most of them over 50 now, they don’t give a monkeys curse – survival of the fittest. Cover up merchants.

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Yep, Ireland doesn’t do justice. The media will love the tabloid part of it for sure, but they hope there will be no reform.

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look at Donal O’Neil the former Maynooth Dean, ran off with a woman and now is a Chaplain in the Galway Clinic. Donal suffered with his nerves and vented his anger and sexual insecurity onto young seminarians. Donal was close to Sean Jones (King Puck).

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Are you insinuating Donal was bisexual? Or just he was so sexually frustrated by being celibate as a heterosexual that his anger issues got the better off him?

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Who cares what someone’s sexuality is, a lot of this blog is obsessed with it, like sexually immature half wits, and categorising people into identity politics like it’s some kind of clerical version of grinder. A person is not identified by their sexuality, they are identified by their actions.

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Heartbreaking on every level. The church has to give closure. Those men went into a seminary with the best of intentions and we’re horrifically bullied.

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Jezusfamtobie – you can make claims that they were horrifically abused until you are blue in the face. What you need to do is provide evidence.

I’m NOT denying men were abused but your, much heralded, REPORT, – (cue dramatic music) couldn’t be any more lightweight. ( your YouTube video heralding the report is akin to gutter press advertising – or as the kids would say click bait.)

You may perceive this as an attack – it’s not – it’s an attempt to get you to tighten up your evidence. As a previous poster points out. A visitation which can’t be credibly dated, a rumour about what it contains and an ex cleric who tells us that things were pretty bad hardly continues solid evidence.

Also, if the claims of harassment and abuse can be substantiated – I’d be interested in hearing how you think the church could give closure to these men. Any ideas?

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Agreed, so far there’s been lots of hysterics and drama, also a lot that looks like the “after this, therefore because of this” fallacy, but no hard evidence. I too would like to see justice served, but served properly with hard evidence, instead of such and such happened, therefore such and such must have caused suicide. So far we have someone getting dumped in some muck, a room emptied out, and gay porn being pushed under a door, hatefully silly juvenile boarding school stuff that has no place in a seminary, combined with completely useless and incompetent seminary management, both of which such be publicly exposed. but there is still nothing on the scale of deliberately driving someone to suicide. “after this, therefore because of this” isn’t water tight enough. Maybe you’re not giving all the details, but a lot more hard evidence is going to be required than this, I’m saying that for your own benefit and the good of justice.

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Be very wary of a guy called James who was a compulsive l liar in Thurles, who stole things and was extremely manipulative. A Cloyne student who was very close with bishpp John Magee who protected him but Thurles copped on to him in the end thank God.

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@6.42am Yes I remember him. Tried to jump out of a window I can recall when they rumbled his antics at Thurles. He was so arrogant to think his bishop, John Magee would save his bacon.

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The question is who drove James to attempted suicide? Was Thurles seminary or those running it possessed or something?

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If there’s so many ex-Thurles seminarians here how come you can’t offer something more concrete to Pat and Robert? Names, dates etc … Instead it’s snipe snipe snipe like a bunch of auld dowagers.

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Pat you look really well in the throw back photo of you and the Oratory in Lourdes in 2002, are you related to a Daniel McDonald? He is the spitting image of you.

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@8.53am you might be surprised how many gay men actually work in the funeral industry. Some are married (yawn) but many are in the closet.

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Off topic but does anyone know anything of Brother Loyd and Brother O’Sullivan of St Senans CBS, Limerick? I remember these brutes from the early 80s.

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The promised earth shattering report falls far short of its expectation. Are both of you hoping that lots of others may come forward to bolster proof of abuse incidents? I was expecting a more thorough report. What we read so far is horrendous. All who feel aggrieved by seminary abuse of any kind should be supported in finding truth and justice.

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Is it not time the seminarians stood up for themselves. They are all grown adult men. Forget your vocation lads, grow a damn backbone!

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9:04 Silly comment. Where have you been for the last 35 plus years of exposure of covering up by a catholic cabal. Why do you think organisations had to be set up
to challenge the power, wealth, and influence of such a cabal?

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I too was expecting A more thorough report. It feels like Pat has allowed Mr Nugent to overrun the blog and it’s more than disappointing that Pat is not encouraging/ challenging Mr Nugent to answer some of the serious questions that are being posed.

Mr Nugent’s repeating that there was abuse is all very well and I also don’t deny that abuse took place however, a few scraps of unverifiable information does not constitute evidence of abuse or harassment.

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Abuse abuse abuse, I am sick of listening to it, everyone gets abused nowadays the bloody sensitive souls

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@9.22 just because people either swept abuse under the carpet, ignored it, felt it was the norm etc. in the past does not mean that it was right or acceptable then or now.

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Maynooth seminarians who knew Thurles, or who had co-diocesans there, thought that the regime in Thurles was far too strict. I hadn’t heard about sems being locked in their rooms at 4.45pm. Could that be explained further? It sounds like a prison.

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No one was locked in their room at 4.45pm!!! Evening study ran from 4.45pm to 6.30pm and again from 7 45pm to 9pm. It was a time for us to do the academic stuff. Yes, we were meant to be in our own room but also moved around the college if necessary. Thurles was far from perfect, but please stop sensationalising the situation or indeed giving false information. There was no one “locked” in their room.

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Yes, Oscott had enforced manual labour for two afternoons a week. You could choose indoor or outdoors. The manual labour dean didn’t like me and always gave me the cloisters to mop and polish, instead of chapel cleaning and polishing the brass.

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Thank you, 10.51am, that sounds much more reasonable and very similar to Maynooth, certainly in junior division (ie first and second year), where sems had to be in their rooms alone studying from after evening prayer to 9.45pm, for four out of the five weekday evenings. No one was locked in and it was done on trust, though occasionally the junior dean would call to rooms, especially if there was noise.

I think Thurles’ alleged strictness was relative to Maynooth, where there wasn’t all that much in the way of strictness, at least in the McGinnity years.

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2.06pm.

Everything is relative when it comes to seminary strictness. Maynooth wasn’t really strict at all and in fact in the 1970s and again in the 2010s was very lax, but when I visted Allen Hall a few years ago they talked about Maynooth as if it was Alcatraz.

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9.53: So far, definitive judgments are being made on rather flimsy, unclear information. Methinks Pat and Robert are not in unity about received information. What on earth caused Robert to literally jump out of the screen in apocalyptic language and weird background music. This shouting approach will be counter productive. We need to be assured that Pat and Robert are one in mind, information and approach. There are too many gaps so far for the information to be a foundation for credible prosecutions. Which of you will take this step of presenting a credible cases(s) to An Gardai? And Robert should stop threatening with his “we’re coming after you” machismo.. Who are the “WE”?

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Whilst no seminarian was locked in at 4:45 what there is no doubt about is the doors were locked at night and no seminarian possessed a key. Keys remained with clerical and lay kitchen staff. It was not unknown for students to ‘borrow’ keys from lay staff when they might meet them in the lower class hostelries of Thurles. There was one door with a panic bar if I recall correctly, it was on the ground floor at the end of the ‘Theology Hall’.

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Was it Thurles where a statue was decapitated? Was it linked to the seminary?
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Anon at 8.50am

Agree with you that’s some sort of a clickbait
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Yes lots of evidence to back that up. Giving one side of an evidence isn’t good enough cos I rem giving mine. Garda said its not good enough but it needs lot of collaborative evidence from other side/s to back it up. They were right.
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Oh dear re 4. 45pm locked up time which isn’t good in my view. It sounded kindergarten time when I was in 1st school re 6pm but Thurles was an adult kindergarten.
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Felt today blog was sort of a fishing expedition, fishing for information which might be good or bad or nothing of collaborative evidence that they might need.
******
Lastly, I was surprised to see that Thurles report was a pontifical secret, what gives them the right 🤷‍♂️

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Deaf Guy – Every day is a fishing & trawler day for the evil & twisted clergy deeply & devoutly committed to covering up the truth about themselves & their sorts with deep pockets. God was left behind many moons ago it seems.

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10.37: Go on off Trawler Man and catch yer oysters and salmon. Your comment is very fishy!!! Rather stupid and of course, OTT – ergo – a lie!

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Funny for a clerical blog the last thing they ever mention is Christ or God.
Sex and power are the Gods obsessed with here.

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Pat, the Memorarae is a wonderful prayer and I don’t know any Catholic who’s not moved by hearing Star of the Sea.

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Guards have no time or motivation to be dealing with clerical abuse as there is so much of it in various guises, they’d get nothing else done & then they have to send their kids to local schools run by Church management. Community management boards & the like are useful for that sort of “suppression” of facts by Church & self interested parties.

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10.25
Do you think that’s the real reason? 76% of males who sexually abuse children are married. Is it not essential that the victims of that 76% are entitled to have their crimes investigated with equal application and commitment?

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@11:42 and I’m glad he does until the penny drops clerical celibacy rule is not the problem, having zero respect for it and making life only about sex is.

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12:18 Nice try. The original comment didn’t mention celibacy or marriage ergo it’s a distraction technique. But then you knew that, didn’t he?

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12:18, nice try yourself 11:42 etc. is right, this blog to it’s constant determent is absolutely obsessed with cruising and homosexuality etc. Obsession isn’t good and the posters constantly at it need to seek some help.

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Bishop Pat and Robert is there any chance todays comments could be put in order – they are all over the place, the times mixed up in between – very hard to concentrate on the subject at hand. Thanks.

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I’ve just posted this on Robert Nugent’s blog … It will be deleted soon.

I thought I’d post I here too

I read your report on Bishop Buckley’s Blog. – what a devastating expose – NOT – pure clickbait – all drama and no substance.

A few unsubstantiated pieces of rumour and hearsay do not make a robust case for abuse.

Michael Deagan’s death needs investigated but, with the greatest of respect, you are not the man for the job. Your attempt to sensationalise weak material indicates a lack of insight and the requisite professionalism that this sensitive case needs. PAX

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There was at least one other attempted suicide.

Thurles seems to me to have been a very dysfunctional place.

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Perhaps it was a very dysfunctional place. I was in Maynooth in the 80’s – very early 90’s and although I enjoyed it and there was much that would cause scandal – it’s only looking back that I recognise it as a dysfunctional environment.

I could right a lengthy piece on why I thought it was dysfunctional but it would have nothing, or very little, to do with bullying and harassment.

My point is define dysfunctional and then find substantial evidence from people who are prepared to openly, and not anonymously, swear to what happened, when, where etc

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MarkC, 11:02, Pat’s right, we could do with hearing more about the dysfunctionality you’ve touched on, and how it could have been avoided. Will lessons ever be learned ?

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Pat, I also would like to write a guest post about my time in Maynooth in the 80s and 90s. I’d probably call it “The Good, the Bad and the Ugly” because it had those three characteristics at once.

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@4:44 run it by the Data Protection Commissioner first love. The deputy data commissioner is Colum Walsh from Griffith Place in Waterford and he was a seminarian of Willy Lee’s Waterford and Lismore in the 90s.

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Don’t flatter yourself, Bp Pat. You were pretty dysfunctional yourself when you entered seminary.

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11.02: I am of the belief now that sensationalism is taken as proof. There is so little substantive content in Robert’s and Pat’s story: it is sketchy, unreliable and almost based on hearsay. Until individuals come forward to verify the allegations being suggested, we will have a very fragmented case with individuals trying to outscore one another. This is not the “catastrophic, esrthquake” shattering post which was promised in apocalyptic language with crazy music by Robert. There are serious issues being referred to and spoken of. Robert and Pat – one question: Why are you not going to the Gardai with the information you already have? Why are you both not voicing a unison of protest, but expressing different rhetoric? I fear that individuals named, referred to or talked about openly may be very hurt as yet. Robert, while I admire your mission, can you desist from catastrophising events until you have accurate, verifiable information. Anyone can post anything anonymously. I really believe you and Pat should make a joint statement as this would reassure us that there is a substantive case for taking to civil courts. You are both creating expectations and suggesting by the “we’re coming guys, we’re going for you…we’ll name you” rhetoric that you have lots of names and factual, verifiable information. What is your next step?

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Except that I believe that’s Robert’s rhetoric and I would bet that Pat would probably want to distance himself from the ‘we’ of Robert’s statements.
Unfortunately, wether Robert intended it or not – he would have had us believe that a definitive report which would prove conclusively that harassment and bullying took place.
I have no idea what Robert’s level of expertise is – I’m sure he is an intelligent man but I reckon he lacks discernment.
The ability to discern the difference between rumour and innuendo and cold, hard, incontrovertible fact is essential in such a delicate issues. Sadly todays report is feeble and essentially worthless.
Adopting a tabloid style promotion video – “the report is landing, lads and then we are coming after the drugs and the rapists and the” (paraphrasing here ) – is not the solemn professional tone one would expect in trying to uncover any issues. And I would suggest he seek advise on how to take what information he does have and structure and present it in a way more becoming of a man who believes he’s doing what he’s doing because he loves The Church rather than presenting a puff piece for the Daily Star.

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11.20pm – Bishop Pat – that is a very good idea – members of the public with verifiable facts about church related abuse and corruption could get their solicitors to assist them to draft Statements for publication on this blog.

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11.35: You are inviting a very open season on all clerics. There are better ways already in existence for people to bring forward complaints. Anyone can anonymously create lies to ruin and discredit any person. Solicitors will need 100% accuracy of information. Your suggestion is a charter for horrible false accusations.

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Solicitors are notorious for engaging in fishing trips—especially personal injury solicitors who get compensation for victims of clerical abuse.

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12:27 Actually that’s not what solicitors require, which shows how much you know. In civil cases they will work out a likelihood of your claim succeeding which they usually express as a percentage. This is what decides whether it will will be a no win no fee basis

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12:48 Yet y’all get aggressive when people say what priests are notorious for….
You people really are something else.

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I’ve just been to the bookies and put on a bet that every copy of the report is strangely missing, just like the seminary records.

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11:45 – I’d say it’s a Dead Cert but never mind “Pride Comes before a Fall” is running soon at Newmarket & the odds are favourable according to the pundit at the Echo as he’s covered this for us before.

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The Wizard of Oz. Feb 9: 8.18am. Thank you for taking the trouble in extending me your enlightenment. May I ask, do you follow the rise and fall of egg prices in Germany?

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12:27 – yes, Solicitors are the best route because they won’t do anything without concrete evidence. That will ensure that open season as you put it will only be relevant to those in the wrong & genuine clergy don’t have to be bothering themselves about things they not complicit in. It must be very stressful to be worrying about things things that you don’t benefit from in any way. Firing empty allegations is a waste of time & energy in anyone’s book, let the verifiable facts do the talking.

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Eugene is right, a recommended Solicitor with a proven track record is the way to go.
Money and being billed on the clock has a way of concentrating the mind.
Hysterics and Drama on a blog also infested with trolls cackling like possessed hyena’s in between their childish sexual comments, is one thing, but getting anything concrete and properly done about it is another. And I hope they do. No one sane can deny Church badly needs cleaned up.

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The blog post today would have been just fine if it weren’t for the melodramatic hype of RN, complete with the movie music. We know slightly more about Thurles, which is fine and good (and I pray that more comes out), but in order to get there, we have to endure the Youtube antics of RN.

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You don’t have to endure them at all and are under no obligation to watch his videos. Unless, unless, you feel you have to watch them in case your name is mentioned, ‘father’?

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12:27 – if you were a genuine Christian you would be more concerned about the well advertised “Open Season” that some of your ordained & serving clerics are proven to have inflicted on young men hoping to embark on a life of good works in the name of God only to be driven to suicide or at best a living hell on earth according to some of their verifiable accounts. Defending the Indefensible & Defacating on someone else’s doorstep to avoid the facts. White Noise to badly hide the Blackness of your Souls when it comes to what has been done to some of these young clerical students & their families hushed up.

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4.45 was the time to be locked up in your room studying… I was caught going for a shower by Michael Ryan, he devoured me, and sent be back to my room, later during a painful one to one in his room I was pop psychoanalysed for not taking study time seriously… FFS… not a nice experience for a first year. William Slattery found Michael Deegan. We were eventually allowed to go home for the weekend a week after the funeral. The student body was in obvious shock and were let drift for the time. It was a horrendous experience. No pastoral care, Christy O Dwyer has a lot to answer for. Bill Lee was well gone at that stage he had no part in it.

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They did bring in the John of God sister, the one that was cold enough to reverse climate change. What’s this her name was? Not sure that was a positive move even though she was a qualified counsellor. Too little too late though and it never addressed the situation in the place beforehand, no one was called to account for what happened. Also there was no appreciable change in the seminary culture after she came on board.

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More history of records being destroyed or controlled in any way to stop their contents becoming public:
The Christian Brothers dropped a threat to sue an abuse survivor over records he took from an industrial school in Limerick after his case was raised in the Dail.
Tom Wall, who survived a childhood of abuse at an industrial school in Glin, says he was asked by the Christian Brothers to burn the records when the school closed in 1973. But he retained many of the files, including his own.
The Christian Brothers claimed ownership of the files after Wall donated them to the University of Limerick and threatened legal action. The religious order backed down after Niall Collins, the Fianna Fail TD, raised Wall’s case in the Dail last Wednesday. Deputy Collins called on the State to intervene to secure the records, which he said included “contracts for sale” that showed how children were effectively “sold into slavery”.
The case has highlighted concerns about the records held by religious orders on the mothers and children who were incarcerated in their institutions. Survivors have complained about the difficulties accessing the records which the Minister for Children, Katherine Zappone, said was “disconcerting”.
https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/christian-brothers-drop-threat-to-sue-abuse-survivor-35565680.html

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1.06: Mr. Dyson, the blog comments today are not all serious not are they relevant to the blog issues for today. I do not and did not suggest that any cleric should be covered up in his abuse against anyone, clerical or non clerical, in seminary or parish or any setting. All abuse is reprehensible. How can you conclude in any way that I may be defending the indefensible? Never had. Never do. Never will. But I do insist on truthful, verifiable facts from truthful, reliable individuals before any innuendo, rumour or speculation. True justice is founded in TRUTH. I subscribe to this principle.

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1:33pm – Glad to hear that – the truth will set you free then. Perhaps you should refrain from “assuming” what you don’t want to hear is “false” when thats not the Case & if your own nose is so clean, what motivates you to wipe the nose of the privileged who certainly do not require or deserve your honest “assistance”.

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1.54: Clerical Dyson, I think you have difficulty in deciphering texts!! TRUTH is vital, not pieces of it but FULL TRUTH. Your missive is misguided and you draw the wrong inferences from my post. Logic isn’t your prime trait…

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Around 2001 I remember two student age Irish lads on a bus excursion trip from the Algarve to Fatima, acting as Gay as Christmas and rude as possible to the other pilgrims, and I though it strange they would be bothered leaving an Algarve resort to go on such a day trip. When we got there, one of them as soon as the Guides back was turned stole roses planted in the front garden of Francisco and Jacinta Marto”s preserved home.

Later the other one while visiting the Church, other when when he thought no one was looking, jumped up to lie in the empty crypt beside the dead incumbents of the Church and made mocking gestures. Bizarre stuff. Low and behold later that day they both appeared with clerical vestments serving at Mass on the Fatima main altar, looking like butter would not melt, and we twigged then they were seminarians.

I shudder to think where those two ended up. Probably Bishops now going by this blog. For me as a lay person, this was only a small insignificant glance into the quality of Irish seminaries since the 80’s . To think seminaries were not filtering out these types of personalities (or at least getting them some help) or at least curtailing such antics/attitudes is mind boggling.

Obviously the management of the seminaries were in no better shape than some of the patients therein. How the genuine seminarians stuck it I’ll never know. God love you all.

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About 15 years ago there was a truly shocking RTE fly on the wall documentary about Maynooth. It focused on three sems, who seemed very immature and quite mentally ill.

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2.15

I remember it well. They fell into neither of the terms you have used in my opinion. They were chosen by the Maynooth authorities ( Dean or deans probably) to spout the usual propaganda that takes six or seven ( Jesuits and others more) usually to indoctrinate or at least to ensure your omertà and compliance, in my view anyway.

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That would have been closer to 25 years ago. Maybe not 25 but certainly over 20 years. I recall one of them confessing to the camera he attempted suicide (years before entering seminary) and clearly he hadn’t addressed the issues that drove him down that dark path. Another one was filmed visiting some of the female students in their diggs and having a good time. The third chap, the only one to ‘survive’ seminary by being ordained was the blandest thing possible. You could just see him as a typical Irish priest of the late 90s. I remember talking to a university chaplain about this after it was aired. A very good, dedicated and well educated priest. He was rolling his eyes, some of the students under his care, some completing PhDs were contemplating entering seminary in Ireland but not after that. Good quality candidates, prayerful, intellectual and emotionally well formed men wouldn’t be seen dead in an Irish seminary by the late 90s.

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That’s so typical of some of the behaviour I experienced in Maynooth.

I don’t remember an oppressively gay culture – there was a guy clique there but the corridors had an overwhelming whiff of testosterone and heterosexuality .

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Pat, 4:24, 4:22 isn’t disputing that, no one here asking questions is, you can do better than straw manning like that.

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I think their most likely current location is making comments on here that nobody is perfect and everyone does such things – their clear mindset would have been that anything goes. In fact that exact mindset has often been displayed here and also the bizarre claim that seminaries really achieve something by getting young students to pray – the massive error in that is of course obvious.
It is also very unlikely that anyone in their seminary didn’t know what they were about, including formation staff, and of course they all just ignored it.
If you behaved like that on a work connected do, even a party, you’d definitely be facing a disciplinary on your return.

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@2:37 Reading this blog, you get the distinct impression that most of the trolls on here would be even worse if in charge of the formation seminarians than the clowns that were. The last thing ever motioned on here on all of this is Prayer, Christ or Christianity. (It burns aaahhh) That gives the game away. I’m sure the trolls will soon be lashing out with a vengeance at the very mention of same.

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Pat at 3:40 I suspect the holy priests heaved a sigh of relief when their names didn’t appear here last night and have now returned to anxiously wondering when their names will. Their comments give them away as always.

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3:40pm, very good to see it Pat, but let’s face it there is very little of that here, it’s all heat and no light, and the cruder and more juvenile the comments the better.

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This Blog has a very good re Ord of success at exposing the truth – Maynooth, Irish College, Paul Prior, Abbot Purcell etc

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3:42 – Pat, great, but what concrete positive results came of it? I’m not trying to be hateful or unkind, but ultimately all this entertaining gossip sheet stuff and titillating commentary needs be actually heading somewhere productive to achieve something concrete, positive and long lasting to restore Christ’s Church, and personally, I see no signs of that. No doubt I’ll be trolled here now sooner or later with some crude juvenile sexual remarks from the fanboys here for speaking out, but so be it.

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The suicide of Michael Deegan is FACT.

The attempted suicide by Sean is FACT.

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In the 80’s and 90’s there were substantive memoranda/ other communications from Ratzingers desk in Rome to seminaries ( for the training of priests) and to bishops. They willl not be public documents anyway soon(!) but they would show a very well attuned awareness of what was happening in those places of “ formation.” The concept of “ formation “ was and is a major constituent element of what is amiss….the lack of an integrated feminine ( virgin and mother were fine before the modern application of integration and its opposites) in the Roman Catholic ministerial priesthood and training is an aspect of the unfolding disaster, to say nothing of the classifications of sexuality in Catholic ethics and theology.

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Spot on, as always. I’m always amused by the conspiracy theory that the church has been infiltrated by freemasons to bring it down with modernism. Why make it hard for yourself? If you want to end the sacraments, just require the clergy to stick to the church’s celibacy rules and you’ll have vanishingly few priests in short order.

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Vocations have nosedived in the wake of V2. It cannot be easily blamed on the documents of V2, or the truncated rite of ordination, rather a seminary culture which is now repellent. Perhaps a desperation for vocations results in horrible admissions, but no priests are better than many bad priests. Japanese Catholics survived some centuries without priests, only a memory of Portuguese accented Latin for the Shogunate executed anyone with Catholic books, priests or sheltering priests.
I’m a bit disappointed on the lack of a report on a place which is still open, albeit not as a seminary. Hopefully some content is being anonymised or whatever is needed to release it, as simple release might be legally problematic.

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2:42 pm – Yep more sex is the solution to the sacrament problem, lol. It doesn’t even solve the problems in the lay persons world, never mind the clerical world. When are you sexually immature clowns going to grow up?

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2.24

Further to my comment, Asia. Africa and South America will bite Rome much more quickly than what has happened in Europe and the English speaking world because of the internet and developing technologies…. even blogs like this.

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Prayer goes a long long way, more than we realise – Just saying. Don’t attack me for it.

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A few commenters today, including myself have asked clear, legitimate questions of Pat and Robert for the purposes of clarification. Response so far – silence. Commenters are asking for more water tight evidence not that of hearsay speculation. It’s vital not to leave any information open for sinister interpretation for particular agendas. We were led to believe that a COGENT, CREDIBLE REPORT would be published today, the Feast of Our Lady of Lourdes. All we got is a rather flimsy bits and pieces report based on emails and information from phone calls. This is the stuff of a Mr. Bean approach to TRUTH. Pat and Robert, you owe it to readers and to “victims/survivors” and families to produce a more comprehensive report. We have some information which represents aspects of appalling abuse but you seem unable to be of one mind in your narratives. That’s essential because Robert, by using “we” seems to be the spokesperson for this alliance and it’s impossible to know the truth.

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We are continuing to investigate and will publish the evidence we find

This Blog has always taken step by step.

I never said there was a big report on the Blog today.

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You might not have said anything about the big report but your current collaborator has give the impression that today is THE day the report reveals all and his posting here this morning suggest that his work is done and dusted and, in his words, he will not know what to say if Ireland isn’t thunderstruck by today’s revelation.
What revelation?
I agree that the blog has had a good record in revealing the rotten underbelly of the church and usually by taking a piecemeal approach. You might want ro reign in your collaborator a bit.
And I’ve said this before – I don’t deny there was dysfunctional, abuse etc in Thurles – I’m inclined to agree that the place was dysfunctional. My problem is with Mr Nugent’s tabloid approach to the issue and his ability to discern ( a word he’s fond off) what is hearsay and what is fact.

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RN created that video without my involvement- as he is entitled to do.

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The blog is usually updated late at night. The post about Thurles was online last night. Maybe the biggie is coming along later.

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May I suggest a good psychologist professor for Both Robert and Pat and for readers, the Australian, Jordan Petersen. His books and you tube videos makes for fascinating reading and viewing. Very interesting and challenging at every level.

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Jordan Petersen, he had a lot of raw material available to him in the development of his proficiency. Australia is an astonishing place…. so much of it as God made it … untouched by the animal causing climate change.

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He’s very moving on telling his story of his journey to faith and I like the fact that he pushes the buttons of the politicly correct brigade but he’s too right wing for my taste

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My memory of Maynooth seminary is that if you turned up to morning prayer, Mass, evening prayer, went to lectures etc and kept your head down and didn’t draw attention yourself – you got through to ordination.
There was little in the way of ‘formation’.’ I believe that’s how so many good, but unsuitable, men got through the system

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3.24
“ Formation “ is an erroneous concept and a euphemism for what it’s designed to do…. but in terms of its dictionary definition… any formation that took place ( I presume it’s still the same) was purely accidental. One’s own resources or lack thereof was/ is what one is thrown on….

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It’s strikingly similar to the patterns of induction into cults and we see comments reflecting that kind of initiation on this blog all the time.
‘First, a cult has to change the way their potential members see things. Reality can no longer exist as it always has, or it will lay the cult’s failures and lies out in the open. So they twist your perception and change the way you interact with information. They may awe you by performing simple psychological tricks, or impress you with accomplishments that contain more smoke and mirrors than initially meets the eye.
Skipping on the full details
Cults can’t afford to be transparent when it comes to recruitment or management. They wouldn’t allow them to coerce you. Which is precisely how most members are tempted into the flock…with dishonesty. Unless you are among the top tier of leadership, you will never fully be clear about what’s going on. Full details are always left out to keep the cult leader and the organization sparkling in the best possible light.
Total social isolation
Social isolation is a must when we’re talking cults. The leaders and the congregations can’t get away with the chaos out in the open. So they isolate themselves geographically (traditionally) and demand social isolation from their members. They are only allowed to hold relationships with others in the cult. If they leave or “misbehave” they they are cut off from friends, family, and anyone else who might disrupt the programming and indoctrination patterns.
Multi-faceted dependency
There are layers of co-dependency that hold a cult together. The members certainly depend on the leader. But this need can naturally fluctuate with the human condition over time. When the members doubt or pull away from their dependence on the leader, dependence on other members is reinforced. The ties you build with other members keeps you beholden to the cult structure — even when you want to run.
Creating a sense of dread
The last step in solidifying the indoctrination of a cult member is done through creating a sense of great dread. There needs to be a fear that keeps a cult member present, even when the doubts creep in (because they do creep in). A cult leader must reinforce this dread by insisting on a punishment that will be far worse than leaving. Maybe they threaten someone the cult member loves, or promise a world nightmarish in what it offers.’
https://medium.com/the-dark-side-of-psychology/how-cult-programming-really-works-d2fce31e2b0a

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3.24. There simply wasn’t any time for formation. In the first three years, if taking a BA or BSc degree, seminarians were basically like lay students living in, with some prayers thrown in. For most of the day you didn’t feel you were in a seminary and you were mostly taught by lay people who in most cases were indifferent to, or hostile to the Church. You weren’t even going to classes on the historic seminary campus but went across a bridge to the secular campus on the blasted heath. You might as well have gone to UCD. I always maintained that the bishops should have retained Maynooth as a proper seminary with proper formation and sent the sems out to the secular universities of Dublin, rather than bringing the secular univerisity into Maynooth, a decision which has been the seminary’s undoing.

Then, when studying theology you followed the pontifical university timetable and the presence of lay students and strident nun students meant that even in theology there was no sense of being in a seminary. The seminary was an abstraction, it existed virtually and it intruded into seminarians lives only here and there, wherever it could slot into the NUIM and PUM timetables.

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6.43
A rather warped assumption to consider studying theology in the company of lay students and female religious made a place not a seminary. Implementing your musings would be a recipe for disater.

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4.44

I concur with you. Thomas Merton ( I think Seven Story Mountain?) writes of “ the point of dread” that comes in the life of almost everyone…. After that comes maturation. That process can be denied by institutions, bringing them to dread and ensuring they do not get past it; RCC keeps many a man in dread of his sexuality… ensuring he cannot get past it; “ intrinsic disorder” internalised. Abhorrent and cruel: done knowingly by RCC teachings.

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I recall a Raphoe priest in the company of others at an event shortly after his ordination opining of Maynooth that in his opinion it was seven years of prolonged adolescence. There was something to it….

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11:53 – make up your mind – one minute ye canon lawyers telling victims to go to guards & solicitors – when you get them to agree to that – then you immediately back track & bamboozle that they don’t have enough evidence when they do – it seems to me that all you want to do is to let the abuse carry on regardless & for everyone else to keep stum about it.

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3:24 – that’s all fine & dandy keeping your mouth shut and your head down to get through to ordination but it seems that some were unfortunate & not left in peace to do just that. Management have to take responsibility for failing to ensure the safety of young men entrusted into their care by devout families to contribute to the future life of the RCC. Leaving these young lads to hang at the mercy of God knows what else was in these places is simply unacceptable on every level.

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The comments about discipline above are very interesting. There is of course the difficulty that if you don’t allow people to make mistakes and be responsible they remain adolescent. I think the thing which really marks what happened in formation after Vatican 2 is that it was felt the seminaries (and religious life for that matter) were too rule bound before the council. My observation would be that the majority of the people trying to implement a move to slightly more freedom with the aim of creating more mature adults, were themselves frozen in adolescence. The door opened a little and in so many places priestly formation and religious life went straight from regimenting where you were at every moment to you not even bothering to let anyone know if you were still at the orgy.

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Bishop Pat – forgive my challenge but your response at 4:37 is a bit disingenuous.
Of course he’s free to make video without your involvement but he’s promoting what he would appear to believe is a definitive report on YOUR blog. Your approach is usually sure but steady as opposed to Robert’s over sensationalising of nothing significant.
Jeez, I really need to get a life 😳😵‍💫😂

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Robert knew about the report and that we hadn’t got it yet. I think he meant the Blog would make reference to the report

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5.12: Pat, Robert must come in and restate his REPORT or apoligise for such sensationalism. His anthem “we’re coming after you guys..” is very threatening. The undercurrent is very unsettling and disturbing in tone. It’s unacceptable for him to be be refusing to clarify questions asked of him. You should not be answering for him. I have great respect for his work and would probably enjoy a conversation with him but I hope he can sustain his energies, spiritually, emotionally and mentally while in the glare of such publicity.

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5.12: Knowing how Robert treated Dom B from Silverstream, how can you tolerate Robert racing ahead of you with large promises about reports? He was very clear that today – FRIDAY – was the DAY.. Answers please.

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I remember strolling the grounds of Trinity College Dublin with a friend I still greatly admire; there was an evening Rugby match going on , he quipped” if there had been more of that in Maynooth, we wouldn’t be in the trouble we are now in the country.” Anyway, for a bit of respite; whether it’s Mack handsome Hansons team or Ronan O Garas chosen domicile tomorrow, I hope Les Bleus and Johnny Sextons lot bring cheer to Paris tomorrow. No doubt Hugh Connolly will have a good seat.

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4:02pm Perhaps the Bog Mailer knows where Martin Hayes referred to herein as a bogman is, if he is also MIA?

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5.12: What report are you referring to? We were ssdumung that the REPORT was to be about Thurles and related issues of abuse and Robert told us in an apocalyptic tone against awful music that an earthquake of revelations was about to shake foundations. There is nothing in what’s printed today by you and Robert to assure us that you are both united in approach and in the next step to take. Surely if either or both of you have valudated, credible evidence which can be corroborated by survivors, you are morally obliged to go to civil authorities. Robert kept claiming last evening that all was ready for today. He needs to answer legitimate questions put to him by commenters today for his own integrity. And, Pat, i am nitucing that you are gently distancing yourself a little from Robert. I believe it would be unfortunate if your blog lost its credibility if this issue is allowed to descend into a “he said, I said” narrative. Can any further clarity be given for readers? Incidentally, aside from this issue, I quite enjoy the videos posted by Robert. I do not doubt his convictions but he needs to answer readers concerns in the abuse issue. .

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I am not distancing myself from Robert. He does his videos alone. I do my blog alone. We cooperate in every way we can.

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6:32 I know, I think they have us hot naughty little bitches rumbled, and they haven’t even seen your gimp costume and swing yet. Much more fun than boring reports and sob stories.

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@6:32 A lot are though, more proof of the juvenile stunted boarding school type sexuality of many that came through the modern seminaries.

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RTÉ Prime Time had a report a few weeks back on the tragic suicide of a teenager after bullying. One would not expect there to be such relentless bullying in a seminary, such that someone would take their own life.
People seem to be desensitized

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Thurles…students locked in a night very true. A deacon or two has the responsibility of doing it. Students used to go to the gym windows to get out. There was also the curious case of the key to the fire door going missing. It was easier to get in and out that way at night. It was replaced by a fake key and Christy hit the roof when it came to light. Great craic. Have to say poor Robert the Kells man is a bit delusional on YouTube.

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Instead of slagging off “Robert the Kells man” how about you provide Pat some useful information about Thurles? Name names. Not on the blog but maybe via email. This nonsense of half truths and bits of info is not of any use to anyone.

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Half truths? are you saying you know the full truth, about what exactly? how is my experience of what when on in Thurles a half truth? you want me to name names? about what / who exactly? Students going out for a pint at night, climbing through windows and opening fire doors with a key to get back in for bed? go wan outta dat! 🙂

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8.18: The students being spoken about seem as if they needed creche minding while in seminaries. For God’s Sake – they weren’t babies and it was s normal thing to have fun…Surely they weren’t precious snowflakes…grow up….or were they?

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People climbing in and out of seminary windows shouldn’t have been in a seminary. Was it all a big joke to them, at the laity’s expense?

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Glasgow contributors – I hear that the the late Fr Big Jim has written a book about the Archdiocese of Glasgow to be published after he has returned to Our Lord. I can only imagine what is in there! Any info?

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Anyone else remember having to pick the spuds for a few days on the Thurles college farm? Backbreaking but a bit of a laugh too.

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Good news fellow Sodomites !
The newly appointed cardinal and newly appointed leader of the upcoming “Synod on Synodality”, has called into question not only foundational Church teachings on sexuality but the integrity of doctrine itself.
As the A-Team says, I love it when a plan comes together :
” The Church’s teaching related to same-sex acts — and, by extension, its teaching that human sexuality is ordered toward conjugal love between husband and wife, an image of Trinitarian life — is fundamentally flawed . . .
. . . He asserts that sodomy was prohibited both because of a flawed embryology that held that a man’s sperm contained the whole human offspring (making same-sex acts akin to something like infanticide) and also because it was associated with pagan rituals. Neither element is relevant today, and therefore the teaching must be discarded.”
https://www.ncregister.com/blog/cardinal-hollerich-and-the-destabilization-of-doctrine

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9.01
That cardinal will be worth reading directly and not through the lens of NCReg, if he has managed to get you so agitated. Far from putting straight people on guard against same sex attraction, I’m sure your comment will have the opposite effect. Your tone is so bigoted that anything which drives you to express your reaction so stridently is worth investigating further. Thanks for the tip!

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11:26 – No worries, you’ll be hearing a lot more from said Cardinal, and why you’re at your homophobia, you can try and prove for us your incitation the quote is inaccurate, it’s been quoted elsewhere as well by many sources, we’ll wait here with baited breath for you to do so.

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Michael Mullaney lived in st Patrick’s college Thurles: 1997-to its closure. I know he was not impressed by how it was run. One of the students he was close to (Cashel and Emly) was asked to leave just before priestly ordination after it was discovered he was viewing gay porn on the internet. Some busy body Dromore and raphoe students brought it to christy o dwyers attention.
Sadly Michael stoped caring, and chose careerism over humanity: in a way Thurles is responsible for the Michael mullaney that exists now.

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Mullaney was rotten from the very beginning. Very close to some, very distant to others. … if you are a real ‘Thurles Survivor’ spill the beans to Pat privately at least. Names, dates, specifics.

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The student (Cashel and emly) Michael fanny mullaney was close to was TJ K
In 1999 while playing indoor football in the ursaline school gym on a Saturday night TJK kicked the football into fannys face: fanny became angry and stormed out
Some students whispers that it was a ‘lovers Tiff’
You are right fanny treated most of the students in a condescending manner: expect for the ones he liked.
Another student ,D O’C, who left later recounted being propositioned by one of the staff priests in Thurles. He refused to divulge who it was: the time of the football incident would coinside with the ‘proposition’ incident.

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TJ K, that’s a name I’d forgotten. He was very friendly with another seminarian. I would have guessed the other one was close to Mullaney but not TJ. Interesting that. Didn’t TJ marry some girl after and his seminarian friend was ordained. I can’t find any reference to the other lad in C&E diocese though.

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9:41 – All the Plebs have an opinion these days – what an Outrage. There was someone on here yesterday reminiscing about clipping ears. Might as well face it, you’re addicted to hate. 🥲

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You win pat, not thty it’s a competition…. You win, not often I say that….
You win….
I won’t ever darken your door again….

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